Northern Rhodesians Worldwide
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Message Board
Is that a Volvo sports car in the photo of Van's? I was trying to explain to my hubby what they were like as Butch Anderson and Corrie Venter used to race each other in them on the way to sessions at Good Hope Farm. I remember screaming my head off at 100 mph while we would be side by side, waiting to see who would veer off first. I am constantly talking to my teenage son about how he is NOT invincible and wondering why he looks straight through me when I do. I forgot how crazy we were as kids too!
Does anyone have Moira Fenwick's current email please? I sent her something and it bounced back. I am trying to find the photo she either sent me or posted on the GNR of the MGB GT that Raymond Jeffries owned, and which I smashed through Geoff's Garage showroom in. Glenda? Linda? Moira? Glenda, you are using my defunct email address when you send me stuff, so please respond through the GNR if you see this.
Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Thursday, July 31, 2003 at 21:47:29 (UTC)
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Hi Sue,
Gee! don't feel bad about your memory, I am lucky I can remember most things from nearly 50 years ago but have trouble remembering things current. Heard a joke on East Coast Radio the other day.
An old guy was asked. "If you have a choice later in life of having Oldhimers or Parkingsons Diesese, which would you choose?"
After a little thought the old guy replied. "I guess I would rather have Parkinsons because I would rather spill a little of my drink than forget where I put it"
I can't remember any names from back then but I can remember most of the things a Cub had to have on his person at inspection.
A piece of string
A pencil
A note pad or a sheet of paper
A hankie
A pocket knife
Matches (Recipe for disaster)
You were to be ready for any emergency.
I remember having to do "BOB A JOB" to raise funds.
The easy way out was to pester your family, although thinking back now I think my brothers took advantage of me for the bob.
I am getting a" HAIRY EYE BALL" better go to bed now.
Cheers
Philip Pain [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Eshowe Kwazulu Natal, South Africa
Thursday, July 31, 2003 at 20:11:02 (UTC)
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Tina
Thank you for your (as usual) eloquent defence...
Phillip Pain
My brother Patrick Forde was in the Scouts with Corrie Venter and.... what was that chaps name that ran the troop? A really nice guy... I am ashamed of myself that I can't remember. He talked about Tinker's Claim a lot.
I know that Pat used my dad's powder blue Dodge Polara to ferry a few scouts around, once I think he even managed to fit 12 in!
Sue Forde [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Midleton, Co. Cork, Ireland
Thursday, July 31, 2003 at 17:21:01 (UTC)
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corrections : work is good fun and pics of Vans were SPOT on
Bob Gillies [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Springs, Gauteng, South Africa
Thursday, July 31, 2003 at 16:13:08 (UTC)
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Hi Doron, I spoke to Chris george in SA some years ago, he is around somewhere. Last time I saw Peter Korb (Joes little boet) we were at Kariba for a weekend. He had picked up a chicken somewhere and had it following him on a string for the weekend, I think he ate it Sunday afternoon. I have seen Frank Giannoccaro a few times in SA and actually tried to phone him today as I saw his brothers Sam and Jimmy at the racetrack on Saturday.Last time I saw Ali Watson was in the 20th Cinema about 1967, he was hanging out with some greek or portuguese mates, haven't seen or heard of him since. Sam Giannoccaro mentioned Fats and Theo on saturday so they are still around. Roy Mayoss came to SA some years ago and I saw him for a while, in and out of jobs and small companies he was trying out. He had a bad car prang, bust his leg up and it wouldn't heal, he was on crutches, they wanted him in hospital for a few months, he said but couldn't afford the time off his work adventures. He went back to Manchester where he wrote a book "A Taste for Dust". I got it off my brother Ross (band drummer Sounds Five, Ginger Cookie & some others) when I visited. Roy's sister Lynn wrote he is not well at present. I never saw Gene Pecker after a party in 1966 at somewhere in Kabulonga. Funny, Roy was with me that night. We had made some home made firecrackers: a whole box of firework mixture and about 30 flashbomb powders all packed into a ronson multifil canister. We set this up on the plot next door and lit it. What a bloody bang and huge cloud of pink smoke and coloured stars. The cops rocked up and closed the party, we weren't popular. I worked for Zambia Motor Spares in 1967 and then left for Kitwe and joined Diesel-Electric the Bosch people. Still with them at Diesel-Electric Springs selling tools and equipment, machinery and any technical supplies, good fund and always enough loot for a sticky bun and a coke. Thanks for the note, keep writing with any news. Thanks Heather for the pics of Vans - they are sot on!
Bob Gillies [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Springs, Gauteng, South Africa
Thursday, July 31, 2003 at 16:08:05 (UTC)
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Trevor Norman
Happy Birthday
BOB GILLIES
Here are some photos of Vans taken many years ago (and originally posted on the GNR in January 2002), although I am not sure exactly when. About two years ago, they knocked the old building down and replaced it with one of those awful buildings that fits BP's 'corporate image' and these photos were found with bits of concrete and other unknown matter on them. Arthur cleaned up the scanned images.
I don't know of any other Bevis Coventry, but if I see any of that clan, I shall ask. Doug Cantlay is still farming in Mazabuka and does have email if you would like to contact him.
CHANDRU KRISHNA
Thanks - I have read the review, but am ploughing through the book to see what he has to say.
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Thursday, July 31, 2003 at 15:25:43 (UTC)
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bob gillies,
i remember you well also. van's garage, what a gathering place that was. it's amazing how zambia was exactly like a small american town from the 50's. there were times when there were 50 people there in the evening, talking, hanging out, generally having a good time. btw, bess passed away many years ago.
others who frequented the place were chris george, peter korb, frank genocara, ali watson, jack wild, ken...boxer guy, fats and theo govia, roy mayoss, gene pecker and many more.
those were really the days.
bob, you're right, i would never have taken you as a puter guy.
what are you up to these days?
doron grill
doron grill [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Thursday, July 31, 2003 at 13:34:09 (UTC)
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Tina "Sniffer" Magee,
As a relatively 'New' poster to the site I wish to sincerely congratulate you on your wonderfully descriptive terminology.
Your "woman beautiful as the cascading Zambezi dancing over the Falls.........." etc is quite priceless, and of course no gentleman worth his salt would ever contemplate the use of the word 'old' in relation to the dear ladies of the GNR.
BUT, I ask myself, are we indeed the gentlemen that you seem to think we are?
It is of course widely acknowledged, at least between Bancroft and Luanshya, that the Copperbelt produced REAL men, as opposed to those wimpy fellows from Lusaka and the other so-called 'administrative' centres, although few even of them could have been accurately described as gentlemen. Yet even they would hesitate to use the term "long in the tooth", perhaps favouring
"of mature years". Certainly never 'old'.
However, I do think you may have hit the nail on the head when alluding to the ageless scent of the siren!
And was the mourning dove actually suffering from a bereavement, or was it just early in the day? It also crossed my mind that suppuration might have happily been substituted for sussuration, but decided not to mention it.
Come on you 'OLD' poster - out of the comfort zone - get sniffing. Your olfactory organs will need to be pretty effective to reach me here!!!
Regards
Ray Wright
Ray Wright [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, WA, Australia
Thursday, July 31, 2003 at 12:57:36 (UTC)
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Philip
I see you mentioned 'Tinkers Claim'. My brother Paul Brock was in the Rovers (Senior Scouts) in Kitwe and spent many weekends camping there along with Ron and Doug Janson, and others, (but I don't remember their names.) I also recall 'Eagles View'. Was that also there? How one's memory goes over the years.....
As for the school train adventures. That also brought back memories of my brother going to Falcoln College, near Bulawayo. My parents and I went over to Ndola from Kitwe to see him safely onto the train, bound for Bulawayo. What happened after that, we were never told much about, except that they used to get off the train at Livingstone and get a taxi to the Victoria Falls Hotel and then catch the train again, as it passed through the station. I think that was the high light of the trip. Don't recall him telling us of the green cushions, but guess he didn't tell us everything they got up to!!
Maybe as I read more of these messages it will bring back many more memories that one tends to forget.
I think we all have a Bond there somewhere, and times we will never forget.
Barbara Hey (née Brock) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Nottinghamshire, United Kingdom
Thursday, July 31, 2003 at 08:30:13 (UTC)
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Hi Donald
All this talk of Scouting and Boy Cubs brings back memories of TINKERS CLAIM I once attended a Jamboree there when I was a Boy Cub. I can still remember the ice cold clear water water of the river there and the Koppie we used to climb. I realy had fun there as a youngster.
If I remember correctly Tinkers was on a dirt road to the right hand side of the Kitwe Ndola road going to Ndola.
Cheers
Philip Pain [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Eshowe Kwazulu Natal, South Africa
Thursday, July 31, 2003 at 04:17:35 (UTC)
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Artie
Re: "Old" Posters
Well of course ANY use of the term "old" in connection with myself or any of the other ladies of the GNR would simply conjure up the ageless essence of woman beautiful as the cascading Zambezi dancing over the Falls, the unfading frangipani-like scent of her presence, the siren allure of her speech like the breath of the wind in the long grass or the susurration of a mourning dove in the still heat of the African day. Now where did I put my rugby socks?
It's true enough, however, that we should all pop out of our comfy grass-lined meerkat burrows once in a while to talk to - I hesitate to say "sniff" - the new posters.
Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Wednesday, July 30, 2003 at 23:17:59 (UTC)
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Heather and others,
There is a Times of Zambia review of Andrew Sardanis' book "Africa:Other Side of the Coin" on today's Zamnet website. Looks like an interesting book.
Chandru Krishna [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Rockville, Maryland, United States
Wednesday, July 30, 2003 at 22:20:54 (UTC)
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Peter
The omelette recipe looks really tasty, but maybe a little dainty for my tastes and much too complicated to cook all by myself. Can it be ordered with a large pork chop and chips as a side dish?
I'm still on the old "art"-nouveau diet, I hope Heather realises this, I have already told her my cooking skills are restricted to rough fry-ups and burning meat on the braai. All this healthy stuff I am supposed to eat looks good but leaves me feeling hungry half an hour later. I can taste the difference between margarine and butter, much to the dismay of Trish. I won't tell you how many sugars I have in my tea or coffee but it's more than two and if you took a photo of my dinner plate it would probably not make a good shot for a glossy cook book, but rather more suitable for a Sunday paper.
The age thing seems to have crept up as well, my family now measure how much I enjoyed my food by the amount that's left down the front of my shirt. Oh well.
Peter, good luck with the book, maybe we should get it added to the Books Section of the GNR and we can put a 100% mark-up on it for you (and me)? I'll mention it to Craig.
Ali
Ok - so where's proof - the photo?
The fly fishing I enjoy the most is with a small fly rod - 6'6" AFTM 3 and very small dry-flys around 18's to 24's and hunting down wild brownies in small brooks. Second comes fly fishing just by touch on a big river in pitch blackness around 11pm - 4am for sea trout, the electrifying take and subsequent fight is something else. If the fly fails there's always the blackbirds fancy.
I wonder if Scarscalp has noticed it has been raining a lot this week? Salar should be making a move.
Tina
Good to see you back on the scene, I wonder where one or two of the "old" posters like Lynthia have disappeared to?
Arthur
Arthur Steevens [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stockport, United Kingdom
Wednesday, July 30, 2003 at 21:27:36 (UTC)
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Sarky...
I will admit that the photo of my omellette on the cover is much nicer than the ones I ever cooked....
The four egg omelette filling is: 2 oz of smoked salmon, one small tomato, one green onion, two mushrooms, 1/4 tsp nutmeg, 1/4 tsp curry.
There are 60 omelette recipies in the book. I was really surprized mine was picked for the cover seeing I have curry and nutmeg ingredients.
Peter Dielissen [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
Wednesday, July 30, 2003 at 20:16:52 (UTC)
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Hi GNR's, Are there any old 13th Ndola Senior Boy Scouts out there? I was a founder member having moved up from the Ndola Sea Scouts. Can anyone remember the camp on the Kafue river near Mufulira, when skipper Johnson and a few others with the help of an african scout troop from Mufulira set up an attack on our camp. We also went on camp to the then new Kariba dam. Do any of you remember the trip to Lusaka for the jamboree. I remember the trip home when I managed to get into the girls coach and then could not get back to the boys coach until early next morning as the guide leader had locked the door between the coaches. I was only able to get back when the train stoped and I was able to jump out the window and run to the far end of the boys coach which was not locked. I'm sure some of the girls who helped to hide me from the guide leader was a Brenda Mullet and her sister . If I remember back that far, her father had a motor boat on the Dambo and I once went water sking behind his boat. I also remember a place on the Ndola/Kitwe road, after the turn to Luanshya where there was a dam with a tea room and bar. They had a long phoofy slide into the water.
As a kid, I with a lot of friends got up to all sorts of pranks, like swimming in the fresh water tank near the army camp in Northrise (although the army campwas not there at first). Then there was the storm drain that ran from Broadway under the town to the Handy gas yard near the railway line. We would also go to the lime quarry to around 16:00 to watch my uncle Charlie Dodd set of the charges for the next days work. I think if were had been caught at that game, we would of been half skinned by my uncle and our fathers would have compleated the job for him.
I left Ndola in 1964 to go to the army in Rhodesia and have only been back once, in 1966, to see my family who were then in Broken Hill.
Donald Sydney [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Bristol, Avon, United Kingdom
Wednesday, July 30, 2003 at 18:30:28 (UTC)
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Meg, Thanks for the reply, first time I have heard Kashitu mentioned for 44 years! It was 18 miles north of Kapiri, Bill Hunt - were you in that area? I was 10 while my dad was station foreman there in 1959. Next door was Dave Williams another foreman, they might have had a daughter, my mum in UK would know. Across the way was the pumper an ancient Mr. Tilly, and next to him was the platelayer an Italian called Bufulari, I cannot remember any kids at Kashitu, I have no sisters only a brother Ross who knows loads of names on this site but I have trouble incentivising him to log on and discover the incredible information being submitted by so many friends of the 60's and 70's. I'll prompt him again. I am sure it was a Bevis at boarding school at Gilbert Rennie from about 1962 to 1965, Keith was his cousin if I remember right. There was also Doug Cantly from Mazabuka who I believe is still farming there. Hi Doug. I well remember Doran Grill and his late twin brother Ofer, Bruce Vevers,Bruce and Clive Henly and James Warner. I had just overhauled my MG midget engine and was at Vans Garage with it,one evening in 1967. James got in, started it and revved the #$% out of it, I freaked and pulled him out the car by his neck, unfortunately more painfully than I intended - sorry James. How's your sister Bess? I also remember the Kafironda bang well. I was in the workshop in Diesel-Electric Kitwe with my indian repairman when it went off about midmorning.We thought it was the open pit blasting across the way until a while later he was called to the phone. His father was an engine driver with Zambia Railways and unfortunately that day was the driver of the loco at Kafironda. The phone call was bad news.They had found his dad's body miles away in the bush, but not much of the loco. As far as we were told it was parked at the station and the explosives started sweating and went off. That was it, my repairman was most upset that since they were in a railway house and his dad was now dead, the railways made the family vacate the house and return to India where he said, 'he would sit in the street in his payjamas' as there was no work there at all. I wonder what became of him, he was a very good worker. For years afterwards when I travelled to Muf on sales I saw the area of flattened trees which later started growing vertically again, I wish I had taken photos, it looked so wierd. I am really enjoying the GNR - I thought my nostalgic thoughts meant I was deficient in something and needed counselling but after following letters on the GNR I am NORMAL!! Can hardly wait to log in tomorrow, and I am NOT a computer person.
Bob Gillies [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Springs, Gauteng, South Africa
Wednesday, July 30, 2003 at 16:32:20 (UTC)
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SARKY
Now the competition is really on - Peter, the one with the curly hair, is about to have one of his recipes published and he even made it to the front cover of the book.
You've been telling me that you do some mean cooking so what else can I do except make comparisons
CJ
Welcome back. But how about a 4,000-or-something km trip up to Livingstone?
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Wednesday, July 30, 2003 at 15:32:19 (UTC)
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Hello to all the Gentle Northern Rhodesians (GNRs) out there.
Today I'm stiff but feeling very mellow, having just returned from a 2000 km round trip to collect the main ingredient for making Gemsbok biltong. We also made about 40 kgs of Gemsbok boerwors while we were about it. It really was a great week - just soaking up the dry and auster beauty of Bushmanland. It was Thomas Pringle who wrote:
“The barren earth and the burning sky,
and the blank horizon round and round
Spread - void of living sight or sound.”
What great pleasure it was to spend every night reflecting on the events of the day, around a blazing fire in a skerm (windbreak) and chewing on grilled Karoo mutton chops. The air so crisp, and stars so bright that you felt their presence pressing down on you. Percival Gibbon summed it up when he wrote of the Great Karoo:
“Years and years I’ve trekked across it,
Ridden back and fore,
Till the silence and the glamour
Ruled me to the core;
No man ever knew it better,
None could love it more.”
(Now - which one of our subscribers must I thank for writing so much about biltong that I went 'nkuli' (meat-hungry) again?). Johnny G... I know you're an ex-'nkuli' man, and will email you snaps when I get the film developed.
Regards
CJ
Charles Cartmill [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Pinelands, Cape Town, South Africa
Wednesday, July 30, 2003 at 15:24:22 (UTC)
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high all, thanks for the info, the names dont ring any bells, but could you tell me more. but the quick sand does..and sliding into the water. and the tall grass. I remember having picnics at the kafue, just out of town...until I found GNR I was fogetting a lot about my time in muf. I can remember riding my bike with no mudgards on behind the water cart, wetting the roads , getting covered in mud. then a hiding when I got home, it was a lot of fun tho.. barry
Barry Morton [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Brisbane, Australia
Wednesday, July 30, 2003 at 09:49:05 (UTC)
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Paul Sullivan, Roger White
Happy Birthday
Bob Gillies
Earlier this month Bill Hunt told us that he had a girlfriend at Kashitu whose name he could not remember. Did you have a sister?
All the sidings still exist and are shown on the map of Zambia which I have. It's a wonderfully detailed map with all the little roads and rivers too, but unfortunately out of print. I have two copies and both are becoming pretty tatty. Kafulafuta is of course better known for the weighbridge that is there now and also the police station which ALWAYS has a road block.
Doubt whether it was Bevis Coventry getting up to such antics (he was the father and passed away a few years ago) - it was more likely Keith (or perhaps Lionel)
Meg Rybicki
You're very unfair to your mother. Although she never taught me (I went to boarding school when I would have been going into her class) I was looking forward to going into her class as both my brother and sister thought she was great.
Did you tell your mom we are expecting her to come and visit us in September?
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Wednesday, July 30, 2003 at 08:13:10 (UTC)
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Hi Wilma
I do remember the Eight Miler, as we used to call it.
We never road our bikes out there. It was a place where our Parents used to take us for braais. It was absolutely beautiful. As you say, a big pond area with the waterfall flowing into it. When we went there, there were never more than 3 other families around. I remember my brother jumping off the waterfall into the pond area and calling me a sissy. But I eventually got the courage to do it. After I came back from boarding school, in 1959, we went there only to find a big notice saying that there was bilarzia (spel) found in the water. It was a great disappointment, as we could no longer swim there again. But it came back to bite me. I found out I had bilarzia (spel), and had the awfull treatment for months, that they gave one those days. But I think for the fun and the joy that the Eight Miler gave me, it was worth it.
Madeleine
Madeleine Luckin (née Bekker) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Johannesburg, South Africa
Wednesday, July 30, 2003 at 08:05:09 (UTC)
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Meg
Wouldn't it be something if we could get Margaret Francis (as she was then) posting along with some of her siblings Godfrey, Bernadette, Christine, Anthony and who knows even busy Solveig. I have told Sol before to spread the word to her sibs about the GNR but no one ever posted to date. Sol never stops running commitees and seminars though so the word might not have got too far.
They are a great family with a wonderful Mum and Dad full of life in Thetford.
Boy do I have some ammunition on the younger family members ;-) though not Margaret. Godfrey was always getting in trouble and taking the heat off her in my day. Give Margaret my love and my email to pass to her brothers and sisters too.
Hugs
Tina
Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Wednesday, July 30, 2003 at 07:24:07 (UTC)
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Linda,
Cheer up - when they were all away throwing cushions down the Zambezi we stayed at home and played with the big boys who had left school!
But it does sound like those school trains were a lot of mushy fun, doesn't it? But who would have missed out on a Helen Kaunda Secondary School education, hey?
Jilly
Jill Aplin [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
South Africa
Wednesday, July 30, 2003 at 06:37:20 (UTC)
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Dear Gnr's
There was a place near Mufulira that we used to go to and that was called the 8 mile. It was in the bush and you could swim there, there was a waterfall and a huge pool.
I spent many a weekend there.
Anyone else remember the 8 mile.
Love Wilma
Wilma Wall (née Henry) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Almelo, Netherlands
Wednesday, July 30, 2003 at 06:05:52 (UTC)
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Thanks to the GNR I have made contact with my former best friend in the world! We met in l967, and started Grade l at Lusaka Convent together in l969, and wept copiously when she left Zambia for good in l975. Apparently we were both hysterical at Lusaka Airport, and I remember bawling my eyes out at the thought of never seeing her again. Due to the fact that Tina Mcgee saw my posting, and remembered my mom, Mrs Rybicki aka Mrs Rabies, the terror of Woodlands school, she emailed me Margaret Francis's phone number. The class of ,69 are all turning 40 this year, and as our birthdays are in November, we are going to meet up, (she lives in Norfolk). We spoke for about an hour on the phone today, and our memories of growing up in Woodlands are still so vivid. She described people like us as the lost tribe of Africa, not from Africa, but having been born or raised there, it is in the blood. We have located 3 members of the class of 69, and wonder if anyone remembers the Brownjohns, Mr Brownjohn ran the nurserys near State House for the PWO, and had 5 children. Anyhow, thanks to Tina, and the GNR, I have found a dear friend. If my big bro reads this (I see that you have become a member Ed, please email us, I think it works between Capetown and Leitrim, as Mom is coming to stay with you in September!)
Meg Rybicki (formerly Margaret) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Mullanyduff, Co Leitrim, Ireland
Wednesday, July 30, 2003 at 01:32:16 (UTC)
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I am SO depressed. It seems I have missed out on all the fun that took place on those train rides. I thought I was pretty smart threatening to run away if my dad sent me to boarding school. What a dunce! Never mind, though. I kept Kitwe on the map instead.. ha! ha!
Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Tuesday, July 29, 2003 at 22:25:06 (UTC)
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MARILYNI
It's EASY-PEEZY just print the "GUIDE to using HTML in your messages" it explains all you need to know to enhance your messages for the message board, (Not Rocket Scientist stuff, but good fun. ) We will leave the programming to the "BOARD of DIRECTORS"
The pretty pictures you will find in the M.S. font's "WINGDINGS" , all you have to do is play with the size="+" command so that you won't need Arthur's glasses. One word of warning :- If you mess up..... expect a personal E-mail. (My E-mail is starting to look like I am getting SPAMMED......Just joking)
JJJJJ
Look after Yourself,
Cheers
Philip Pain [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Eshowe Kwazulu Natal, South Africa
Tuesday, July 29, 2003 at 19:15:03 (UTC)
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Hi Linda and Barry,
It must have been Rodwin's, we as a "GANG" spent many a weekend there .( We used to call ourselves the " Gobieland Raiders" ( why I don't know.))
Barry, the North side of MUF. confuses me.
Cheers
Philip Pain [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Eshowe Kwazulu Natal, South Africa
Tuesday, July 29, 2003 at 17:57:34 (UTC)
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Liz, June, Jacqui, I see you were also aware of the Green cushion syndrome. My Dad was station foreman at Nyamdhlovu in 1956, we moved to Kashitu 18 miles north of Kapiri Mposh in 1957 and then to Chipongwe south of Lusaka in 1960 all small railway stations using morse code to each other for train instructions. Funny we never had train prangs until they put in the modern signal systems. The Kafue bridge was also a notable dumping ground (river) for green cushions and anything else detachable from the compartments. The train would approach Kafue bridge all quite and respectable until on the bridge and then all hell broke loose with everything possible going out the windows. The fishermen with dugouts etc would collect the cushions if they were not hit with them and make off with the prizes, on that train a guy, possibly Bevis Coventry of Mazabuka used to climb the length of the train on the outside. A grinning body would appear at your compartment window clutching the gutter with toes on the window sill and edge past. Some of us were in the loo holding the flush pedal down and had a loo roll on a stick spinning madly putting a strip of paper down the track. In 1959 I was at school at Parker Primary in Broken hill, standard 3 and I remember being held out the train window by my ankles, by a senior while we steamed along, my foilks would have freaked if I'd ever told them. Good upbring on Rhodesia Railways biult character. I would really like a Rhodesia Railways map with all the stations from Ndola to Livingstone, as many such as Kashitu, Walamba, Fubera, Kafulafuta (spit further)Katanino and Shimabala are not shown , does anyone remember these?
Bob Gillies [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Springs, Gauteng, South Africa
Tuesday, July 29, 2003 at 16:13:01 (UTC)
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Hi Ali...
Here in New Brunswick you can only "fly fish" for salmon. No spoons or other method allowed.
I am dexterity challenged (as in washing dishes, mowing lawns and many other things according to my wife, hee, hee) and have great difficulty in getting that fly to land where I think the fish are. Fortunately luck plays a BIG part in fishing...
In the Yukon we were allowed to use spoons. Will post pictures as soon as I can find them.
Peter Dielissen [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
Tuesday, July 29, 2003 at 16:02:42 (UTC)
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Peter Conway, Fred Anderson, Arthur Adey, Stuart Rovers, Rorger Welsh
Happy Birthday
NORTHERNERS
I have received the following message:
I'm a South African working on a thesis looking at the recent Zambia Railways privatisation.
In particular I'm looking for a bit more detail (or reminisces!) concerning the social/ recreational/ medical facilities traditionally provided by Rhodesian Railways and subsequently by Zambian Railways to their employees.
Sean Willis
If anyone is prepared to assist, please let me know and I'll let you have his email address.
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Tuesday, July 29, 2003 at 15:52:21 (UTC)
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Those green cushions? Dick reckons (and he's usually right) that RR employed a couple of guys to collect them when they came down the river.....
Lizd [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
United Kingdom
Tuesday, July 29, 2003 at 13:50:43 (UTC)
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Hi Barry,
I hope I can help you. In the late 50s, I was about 14,
we used to ride our bikes out there. There was, to my knowledge, no proper name. We all called it the "One And A Halvey", as it was one and a half miles out of Mufulira. Even the adults called it by that name. There was a great deal of quick sand in the area. We all took turns in jumping in it and when it sucked one up to the arm pits the others used to give you a broken branch and then pull you out. This was done, of course without our parents knowledge, "we were just out on a bike ride". It was great fun, but when I think of it now, I go quite cold. The little river could be called nothing else but "little". We used to pour water onto the edges, which were about 4 odd feet high from the waters surface, and then slide down the best ever mud slide in the world. Someone had the great idea of putting a caravan cum roadhouse there. This proved to be quite popular over the weekends, till one day the owners came to open up, and it was gone, it had sunk into the quick sand. Oh I did love my youth.
Madeleine.
Madeleine Luckin (née Bekker) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Johannesburg, South Africa
Tuesday, July 29, 2003 at 12:53:06 (UTC)
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Barry:
Is it either Rhodwins or the Rapids?
Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Tuesday, July 29, 2003 at 12:10:21 (UTC)
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hello every one, can any one shed light on a failing memory, some where outside the north side of mufulira, theirs a place of grey white sand, with a small river of sorts, we used to ride there on our bikes.this was in the early 50s I was only ten. thanks barry.
Barry Morton [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Brisbane, Australia
Tuesday, July 29, 2003 at 11:04:00 (UTC)
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Artie.....Peter D......et al
Hmmm fishing...what a lovely sport...must surely flow in the veins of Africans especially those from the centre of the Universe...however I must declare, as an experienced fly fisher person......(and have a photo to prove it !!!) FLY FISHING wins hands down....
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Tuesday, July 29, 2003 at 08:59:57 (UTC)
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I see there are a few people looking for the lyrics etc of COCKY ROBIN.
This was Wrex Tarr who sang it and can be obtained on CD for US$29.95
site www.earthworks.com/rhodesiawassuper
Hope this helps you.
One may also be able to download it from one of the music sites as well.
It is Wrex Tarrs Classics - Chilapalapa
Simon Penstone [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Springs, Gauteng, South Africa
Tuesday, July 29, 2003 at 07:28:15 (UTC)
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Hi All and especiallyJacqui,
A few years ago I bought myself a ten C.D. collection of the Hits of the 60's (all original artists) They are South African hits so no Beatles, remember they were banned here in S.A.
On EAST COAST RADIO they have an advert which goes:- "The best music in the world is the music you grew up with" I must agree! We play these C.D.'s at all our parties and even the younger generation enjoy them.
I have several memory triggers, like a smell, certain weather conditons, a sight and music, all of these things can instantly take me back to a time and a place.
So for all of you out there here are some memory triggers.( I will do this in stages )
Volume 1
MR. TAMBORINE MAN - The Byrds
BUILD ME UP BUTTERCUP - The Foundations
ELENORE - The Turtles
CONCRETE & CLAY - Unit Four Plus Two
HITCHIN' A RIDE - Vanity Fare
FERRY CROSS THE MERSEY - Gerry & the Pacemakers
TOBACCO ROAD - Nashville Teens
BABY COME BACK - The Equals
HELLO LITTLE GIRL - The Fourmost
OB-LA-DI-, OB-LA-DA - Marmalade
I'M TELLING YOU - Freddie & The Dreamers
HERE COMES MY BABY - The Tremeloes
HIPPY HIPPY SHAKE - The Swinging Blue Jeans
YELLOW RIVER - Christies
SWEETS FOR MY SWEET - Mike Pender's Searchers
WISHIN' & HOPIN' - The Merseybeats
WILD THING - The Troggs
HERE IT COMES AGAIN - The Fortunes
ALL I REALLY WANT TO DO - The Byrds
I'M THE ONE - Gerry & The Pacemakers
SAN FRANCISCAN NIGHTS - The Animals
JUDY IN DISGUISE - John Fred & Band
EARLY IN THE MORNING - Vanity Fare
TOSSIN' & TURNIN' - The Ivy League
DON'T THROW YOUR LOVE AWAY - Mike Pender's Searchers
No remixes
Cheers
Philip Pain [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Eshowe Kwazulu Natal, South Africa
Tuesday, July 29, 2003 at 05:02:05 (UTC)
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Madeleine and Jacqui.
After reading your tales of the school trains and those green cushions awakened my recollections.
I also travelled the school trains from 1941 to 1949, six times a year, to the Convent School in Bulawayo, for the 3 Terms.
Back in those early days many of the Copperbelt children were sent South to various boarding schools to continue their education. The "School Train" would leave Nkana station on Sunday mornings. Those living in Chingola and Mufulira were driven through to Nkana to join the train. My Dad would take us to Nkana station to load our school trunks and also meet up with our school pals already on the train. The train journey to Ndola was so slow, so as to give my sister and I extra time at home, our parents would drive us through to Ndola to pick up the train at mid- day.
The train was divided by the Dining Car, boys in Front and the girls at the back end, supposedly to keep us separated. We had the Conductor on his toes running from one end of the train to the other chasing the Boys out of the Girls section. The would sneak through the dining car or get on at the stops and hide in the girls' compartments. When discovered. somehow they all had a sister who they had come to visit.
I started travelling the trains during the war years, so the nuns being foreigners were not permitted to accompany us, but after the War ended in 1945, 2 nuns were put on board to chaperone us, then it became harder but not impossible for the boys to visit us. We were instructed to keep our doors open, then it became a Cat and Mouse game, trying not to get caught.
So what would the Nuns be able to do, other than lock us in or put us off the train (I dont think so.!).
We chugged along into the night lying on our bunks listening to the clackety clack of the wheels, and the excited chattering of the Africans at various sidings, we stopped at Mazabuka, Monze, Pemba then Choma, until we reached Livingstone.
This was a lengthy stop, as Train crews were changed, more coachs shunted on for more kids boarding on our way to Bulawayo. Two of the convent girls, Rachael and Lola Furmanovsky lived in Livingstone and their father ran a transport business. So he would be waiting at the station with his big Truck (Lorry) when the train pulled in, all the Convent girls would pile on to the back and he would take us the short distance to the Victoria Falls, (not sure how the others got there). We were free for a couple of hours to explore the Falls, going through the Rain Forest and gathering to encircle the BigTree.
Then we would go and sit on the Verandah of the Hotel and order cold drinks before strolling back to the station to pick up the train when it came through from Livingstone.
In the evenings when we stopped long enough at a station, out would come the wind-up Gramophone and the old 78's and/or a girl with a Piano Accordian and we would all dance on the Platform. Otherwise after dinner we would crowd into the Dining Car to sing along to the Accordian or Gramophone. I think the dining car staff
enjoyed it too.
On the Northbound journey, when we crossed the Victoria Falls Bridge, all those hard green cushions would come flying through the windows, to the depths below. It must have cost the Rhodesian Railways a fortune to replace all those pillows tossed over the Bridge by the school trains, you think they would have wised up and left them off.
Another long stop was at Wankie, the coal mining town, we would stroll around the town, it seemed that everything was covered in black coal dust. To pass the time we would place pennies on the rails so the coaches being shunted would run over them and squash them flat.
Leaving Wankie we often had long delays along the line, when the train needed to wait as the Elephants were crossing or walking along the tracks and during the rainy season, at times the rails were under water due to flooding. The train moved so slow, some of the boys would jump off and walk alongside, until the Conductor spotted them.
Our last pick-up stop was Dett late in the evening and Tuesday morning we would pass Nyamandhlovu, before arriving at Bulawayo, the end of another school train adventure.
June Bohl
June Bohl (née Walker, formerly McCarthy) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Los Angeles County, California, United States
Monday, July 28, 2003 at 23:17:42 (UTC)
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Hi Arthur...
I like the internet version of my fish MUCH better!!!
Still lots of Atlantic salmon around. You can only catch two a day in New Brunswick. You can keep the Grilse - those under 25 inches. All others must be released. I was very lucky to catch one of each.
The 18 pounder was indeed a good fight. My record is a 29 pounder in the Yukon. I'll ask Heather to post it.
Peter Dielissen [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
Monday, July 28, 2003 at 21:05:50 (UTC)
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Madeleine
Amazing! That you guys threw the green cushions out of the trains over the Vic Falls in 1958! We used to do the same thing in 1966 - 1969! When I first found the GNR - about 2 years ago - I posted about those wonderful adventurous days on the school specials and the green cushion throwing was one of the topics discussed!
Yesterday I spent the most blissful, nostalgic two hours listening to an interview on my radio with Chris Farlowe. He was top of the hit parade on the 28th July 1966 and the music took me instantly to another place and another time - the school specials of Africa! It was with great reluctance that I had to return to normality and reality! Who remembers this hit parade - sorry I missed the numbers of some of the songs!
Hit Parade – 28th July 1966
Lana - Roy Orbison
When A Man Loves a Woman - Percy Sledge
Stangers in the Night - Frank Sinatra
Hideaway - ?
Paperback Writer - The Beatles
14 - Mamma - Dave Berry
13 - ?
12 – Bus Stop - Hollies
11 – Nobody Needs Your Love - Gene Pitney
10 – Magic Carpet Ride - Dusty Springfield
9 - River Deep Mountain High - Ike and Tina Turner
8 - Love Letters - Elvis
7 - The More I See You - Kris ?
6 - I Couldn’t Live Without Your Love - Petula Clarke
5 - Sunny Afternoon - The Kinks
4 - Getaway - Georgie Fame
3 - With A Girl Like You - the Troggs
2 - Black is Black - ?
Number One - Out of Time - Chris Farlowe
I don't have to tell you that I was singing and bopping around my flat like a 13 year old again! Ha! ha! and later on the DJ played 'Stupid Cupid' which I still have going round in my head! Wonderful stuff!
Elspeth
What's up? You didn't call me while you were in the UK?
Jacqui Milward (née Lackenby) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
London, England
Monday, July 28, 2003 at 17:22:38 (UTC)
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Heather
You think I would believe that a booze laden fishing trip paid for by a government department would not have been subject to "sexing up" and I that would fall for the massaged images concerned ? Maybe they were caught using the "spin" method ? And that's Tony Blair in one of those shots.
On closer examination of the photos concerned can see what's going on, Peter's hair is all stuck up because of the close proximity to the static from the "fish" balloons and his grin caused by inhalation of the helium. I can also see where they tied the balloons off in the photo (it's the same knot used by Bill Clinton). Here's another version of the same photo I found circulating the internet.
Well I suppose it's a long way off from the cardboard cut-outs they used in olden days BH, the props have become more realistic as they get more devious. I wonder if the infamous tassel tosser Johnny was so enamoured with was in fact another cardboard cut out and if Johnny now has the breath for the latest BH rubber craze, or will it be a trip down to the airline at the service station?
Peter
Your fish look like Atlantic salmon - I thought I read that the Canadians had fished them out, or are Salmo Salar (the leaper) making a comeback? The 18 pounder looks a brilliant fresh run bar of silver I bet it gave you a good fight. I hope you did not catch it by the Hartnett lower class worming method, or did you catch by fly?
Small Atlantic salmon around 5 - 10lbs are usually younger fish that have not properly run out to distant seas and are called grilse over here, only when they have spent a full year at sea and return are they referred to as a salmon. The small ones taste just as good though as I'm sure you'll agree.
And to make this posting germane and to rub the salt:
I will be at the Livingstone Lark in September and so I will be missing out on some of the best weeks for salmon runs over here, but I am not worried because I will instead be on the Lower Zambezi for a few days specifically angling for some Tiger fish. Then you will see some photos of really awesome fish. Even Craig is going to catch one. I am also thinking of taking a fly rod and giving that a try.
Arthur
Arthur Steevens [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stockport, United Kingdom
Monday, July 28, 2003 at 17:11:50 (UTC)
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Neil Smith
Kola Tonic is also available at http://www.susman.com/system/index.html
Hartley Heaton [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Binfield, Berkshire, United Kingdom
Monday, July 28, 2003 at 16:07:01 (UTC)
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Hi Heather...
Which once again proves that only those from the centre of the universe - Broken Hill - know how to fish....
There are lots of wann-a-bees from Lusaka, Nkana and other minor dorps who are insanely jealous of our well honed fishing skills, good looks, superior intelligence, romancing and drinking abilities acquired in Boones bar, ahem....
Peter Dielissen [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
Monday, July 28, 2003 at 16:01:22 (UTC)
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Peter D
The only large fish-type things that I have ever seen come out of Mulungushi are flatdogs.
Andrew Sardanis
I have just had dropped on my desk a copy fo Andrew Sardanis' book 'Africa Another Side Of The Coin' which has just been released. It will be an interesting read. It is available at IB Tauris or Amazon
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Monday, July 28, 2003 at 14:58:23 (UTC)
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Heather...
Fishing skills were indeed acquired in the centre of the universe - Broken Hill - at the world famous Mulungushi Dam - well known home of the largest fish below the equator!!!
As for the curly hair - it is a perm - a left over from my hippie years.
Peter Dielissen [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
Monday, July 28, 2003 at 13:44:34 (UTC)
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John Whitham, Jimmy Churchill, Lynne Paterson, Ian Hugo
Happy Birthday
Kola Tonic
I must have had a deprived childhood because I don't remember Kola Tonic, but it is now available in the shops here. I'm going to buy a bottle today and taste it to see what all this raving about.
Peter Bromwich
The flame lillies in Zambia are Gloriosa Superba, but there are two varieties under that name. One is more orange and the other red. It is is the red ones that grow here.
Arthur
Looks like Peter Dielissen is fishing in competition with you - here are the photos of his latest trip, about which he says:
Spent three days this week fishing at a government lodge as a guest of the New Brunswick government. Everything supplied - guide, canoes, rods, food, booze etc etc. I was able to keep the small one - 4.5 lbs under 25 inches. The big one was 18 lbs and had to be released....
If you're not careful they'll be telling you that learnt more about fishing in Broken Hill than you did in Nkana Kitwe. I just want to know where he got the curly hair from - perhaps the lead in the water?
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Monday, July 28, 2003 at 12:32:41 (UTC)
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Hi Ayub, and everyone interested
Kola tonic is available from http://www.biltong2u.co.uk/pricelist2.htm
(copy & paste the address)
Neil.
Neil Smith [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sheffield, United Kingdom
Monday, July 28, 2003 at 12:18:02 (UTC)
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Mike...will let you know as soon as I can find a supplier of Kola tonic in the UK
Tony..thanks for the website..will visit it.
Madeleine...So glad your memories of your youth are so good. Innocence and youth compliment themselves so nicely! The train journey must have been breathtaking and so full of splendour. I saw Michael Palin take one over the falls in his "Around the World in 80 days" stint a few years ago. Poor fellow was met with flying chickens on the train!! How times have changed!!
Ayub Ismail Zumla [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Manchester, United Kingdom
Monday, July 28, 2003 at 12:03:38 (UTC)
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Hi Ayub + Mike,
Kola Tonic brings back so many memories. I went to boarding school in Kimberley, in 1958, I was 14. There were many kids from the Copperbelt that went to either CBC or the Convent. We all went home in July and December (the other holidays we went to friends), and
I can assure you the 5 days 4 nights/5 nights and 4 days, were the highlight of the year. There was only myself and another girl (cant remember her name) who was a little older than I, and there must have been at least about 12 boys. We said goodbye to the Nuns very demurley with our school uniforms on, and as the train left Kimberly we promptly changed into slax (there were no jeans those days). Within 1 hour the Conductor would have us transferred to the front of the train in a first class coupe, and have all the boys put in second class as far back in the train as possible. This made no difference to his plan to keep everything under control, we all took over the train. The Conductor would give me a little more room as my elder brother Stephen was also on the train and said he would look after me. Needless to say we all spent a lot of the time in the Dining Car. We thought we were living dangerously by having Kola Tonic, which we thought had alcohol. It was like the nectar of the Gods to us. In Bulawayo we had to change trains for Ndola, and I loved this stop. For 2 shillings one hired a bath which you could fill to the brim and just wallow, for just about as long as you pleased . One needed it by this time.It was during this time that the metal fly zip was introduced and one of the fellows was in great pain as he had been showing off, and zipped himself up far to quickly.
When we crossed over the bridge at Victoria Falls, the two of us used to watch from our coupe and as the boys compartment went over, there was a green wave that left the train and went into the water. They used to go around to unoccupied compartments and swip the little green cushions to use for this purpose. We all loved to dance at the little siding of Kapri Imposhi (spel) as there was always a wonderful little african band which played there. Thank you for reminding me of this magical time in my life.
Madeleine
Madeleine Luckin (née Bekker) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Johannesburg, South Africa
Monday, July 28, 2003 at 09:17:09 (UTC)
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Phillip:
No. Nothing wrong with me. I'm embarrassed because I can't make up poems, or draw pretty pictures like you can on the computer, or draw like Ali. I'll also have to borrow Arthur's glasses (spectacles) to read that TINY print you use!
I'm recovering from a bit of renovation at home. Another thing I can't do is use a hammer properly. My left index finger is still aching from the hit I gave it yesterday.
Was also looking at a few photo's from Frederick Knapp School and one or two from the Rhokana Review which I'll scan and email to Arthur as soon as I can.
John Milton:
Are you still there? Please email me.
Marilyn
Marilyn Noall (née Shooter) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Western Australia, Australia
Monday, July 28, 2003 at 07:03:53 (UTC)
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Hi All, Need to test my setup. What went wrong ? What went wrong ? What went wrong ? What went wrong ?What went wrong? Arthur these are for you. $Cheers,
Philip Pain [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Eshowe Kwazulu Natal, South Africa
Monday, July 28, 2003 at 04:58:10 (UTC)
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Re the spam discussion, Yahoo does it for me, it is so zealous that it even filters out worthy emails from Oxfam ect requesting signatures for Fair Trade campaigns. I am taking the plunge and buying a Biltong maker from the interestedly named Duane Slabbart, I will keep the message board posted as to the success of my Northwest of Ireland Biltong Emporium, we will, as soon as we receive said machine, try venison, its the closest thing to Kudu in Leitrim! My mealie plants in the polytunnel are a magnificent 1m 30cm, and my squash and eggplant are rapidly approaching (small) marble size. I have actually grown bigger outside the tunnel where they have to contend with maximum summer temps of l9 c, and winds straight off the Atlantic, perhaps its the organic seaweed fertilizer I am using, I cant remember what we used in Woodlands but our gemsquash were magnificent! Any useful (organic) tips for growing nostalgic comfort food in inhospitable places like Ireland? Thanks, Meg
Meg Rybicki (formerly Margaret) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Mullanyduff, Co Leitrim, Ireland
Monday, July 28, 2003 at 00:59:58 (UTC)
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I know it is a little late but I wanted to add my comment to the debate about the "Shell" depot fire in Kitwe in 1966(?). It actually was the Total depot that went up with a bang, literally. How do I know? My father was chief engineer for Caltex and his offices were next door! The following day I went with him to see the damage which was on a staggering scale. I recall full fuel drums expanded into large domed cylinders and fuel just spraying out everywhere. I presume it was diesel or paraffin that was left at that stage. I do have a collection of colour slides taken of the burnt out Total depot. The cause was apparently a spark where drums of fuel were being emptied and pumped into storage. It was a spectacular site. But it was certainly the Total depot!
David
David Russell [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Western Australia, Australia
Monday, July 28, 2003 at 00:47:55 (UTC)
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Barbara Hey
Take a look at these
Back in July 2001 I posted a series of postcard photos of Kitwe town centre taken in the late 50's
This was one of them
I have shown the postcard again only because I am now able to more accurately date when it was taken, in the entrance to the OK Bazaars is a window display featuring the "Goldilocks and the Three Bears" which I saw in the original when I examined it with a powerful magnifying glass. My deduction is that since the Little Theatre play was probably so popular there must have been a market for a spin off in bears. (My siblings had these bears and they ended up as target practice for a pellet gun, and were later beheaded). Anyway I digress - the postcard photo must have been taken in the early part of '57.
Philip Pain, Scarscalp, Linda Dore
Headmasters office please, and Philip bring your magnifying glass so I can read your small print. You remember how you could fry a matebele with a good lens and with some decent sunlight, or burn your initials into something? I have plans for you three.
Everyone else
I have some excellent photos waiting to be posted, it is a bit late in the month to post them right now, so I'll do them all later in the week when the August message board is here.
Postcard from the collection of June Bohl
Photos from the Rhokana Review - Feb 1957 - courtesy Guy Hobbs
Arthur
Arthur Steevens [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stockport, United Kingdom
Sunday, July 27, 2003 at 23:38:03 (UTC)
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Seems ages since I added a message on here, so here goes.
I so often sit down and read all the long and interesting messages (but don't have much time to sit down and write) and view the lovely photo's and they all bring back so many nostalgic memories of my growing up in the Rhodesia's in the 50's and 60's.
One tends to forget lots of the little things that one did in those days and just seeing pictures from the Rhokana Review and views of Nkana/Kitwe makes one recall the good times we had. Seeing the Astra cinema, reminded me of when we went to the Saturday morning matinee for a shilling (if I recall), or to an early evening show with the family, was also a BIG treat out. Sunday was a trip to Eskimo Hut, if we were good.....for a whirly ice cream.
The Nkana mine mess also brings back memories, of when my father and I had our rushed dinner's there, before visiting my mother at the Nkana hospital, (where she spent many weeks at a time in there, with her Asthma) then onto the Little Theatre where my father was very involved in shows and pantomimes. (Sometimes I had to do my homework in the dressing room there.) I'm sure some of you may remember him as Little Bear in Goldilocks and the Three Bears.
Since moving to the UK three years ago, after living in South Africa for many years, I have managed to make contact with several old school friends, in many parts of the world now, via the GNR. and share some lovely memories of childhood days.
To Steve and Margaret de Lange, I hope you have a wonderful time at the Reunion in Livingstone. I wish I could join you there.
Thanks to all of you who make the 'Great North Road' web site operate. It's great.
Barbara Hey (née Brock) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Nottinghamshire, United Kingdom
Sunday, July 27, 2003 at 21:12:36 (UTC)
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Hello Peter Bromwich
I remember you from Luanshya, way back when. Seem to think I was buddies with one of you sisters, Diane? Was one brunette and the other blonde? And you were sometime friend of my brother Bob. Where on earth does the memory go?
Regarding growing flame lilies, (Gloriosa Superba?) my mum and dad brought some tubers back from Luanshya and grew them in Cornwall. All I can remember was that they grew in pots in the front glassed-in porch and by the end of summer, you couldn't get into the front door. Talk about man-eating aspidistras - these were much worse!
Lizd [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
United Kingdom
Sunday, July 27, 2003 at 20:19:34 (UTC)
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Broken Hill Northeners...
Take a peek at this item on e-bay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3619972894&category=395
Peter Dielissen [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
Sunday, July 27, 2003 at 20:16:01 (UTC)
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Hi Ray Wright:
Great poetry!! Don't fret about not knowing me personally. Most of those who do are still running...
I was just sitting here catching up on the GNR and can't help remarking (yet again) how unique this message board is. So many diverse personalities, backgrounds, economic levels, etc., and yet we have the capability of sharing in a way that connects us in our souls. We can laugh with and at each other, share common experiences where only the names are different, and can smell the earth after an African rain, merely by reading the words about it.
And I did, too, get bitten on the bum by a 20ft croc that came through my toilet.
Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Sunday, July 27, 2003 at 18:23:43 (UTC)
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Hi All, Lynne and I have just got back from a DIVORCE party, A couple of friends of ours got divorced this week and decided to have a party to celebrate. (Nice to see that they are still good friends, in fact they are getting on better now that they have nothing to fight about) This morning I went to my wife's twin brother's web-site to see how it is getting on and I must admit I am very impressed.Lynne's brother is a up and comming artist and if anyone out there is looking for some fantastic paintings, mostly on African Wild Life have a peek at his web page BUSH ART (click here)and check out his gallery. Who knows you might be making a sound investment, we get ours for free as presents on Lynne's birthdays. (I love the FISH EAGLE ) MARILYN, What happened the cat got your mouse?8 Cheers
Philip Pain [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Eshowe Kwazulu Natal, South Africa
Sunday, July 27, 2003 at 17:24:25 (UTC)
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Arthur
You are sooo brave with so many miles between us. Love you lots. (I didn't cause the fire in question, okay)
Phil Pain
My three cousins, the Burtons, (their Mother, Betty Burton, was a teacher at Frederick Knapp School) my two brothers and I used to play on those anthills at the back of Boma Street in about 1948 - 1950. We used to use cardboard boxes to slide down them, expecially after it had rained, it was great fun, so maybe we were there before you!!!!!
Scarscalp
I don't know about not enough beer for you and Graham at Mark and Lizzie's farewell do, what about Chris and I?!!! We look forward to seeing you all there.
Heather
Thank you for all the wonderful photos you put on the message board. They really take me back to the good old days.
Sorry Chris and I cannot make Livingstone and thanks for all the information you sent us.
My daughter, Catherine, and I went to see Jeremy Taylor (Ag Pleez Deddy) perform at a pub down the road a few weeks ago, we had a wonderful evening. He was great.
Ada
Ada Cantrell (née Wienand) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hastings, East Sussex, England
Sunday, July 27, 2003 at 17:01:23 (UTC)
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HEY BOBBY
Nice to shoot the breeze again, listen to this ,,
Due to the insults on my good person from Miss Smartie Pants Linda Dore,im going to strip my photo albums and get a few potos of her her at her best, and as i said im taking orders for some of them, then we'l see who's so smart???
I read some time back that Brozo sending Sue babe hugs and kisses for her going to swop spit with Paul the man, good on her,,,,,but as for Brozo giving her a hug or even a kiss, that i got to see as he will lose his balance standing on those 10 bricks he will need to reach, and i have some very nice photos of him at Mulangushi dad behaving like a true gentlman that he is, I have yet to chat with his good lady and im sure he is looking forward to that day,,,
I think some of the guys and chicks will be looking forward to the photos as im going to put a few hot ones in aswell, then let them tell there love ones that it was'nt them in the spaps,,,cheers Bugs
Bugs Da silva [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Zambia
Sunday, July 27, 2003 at 15:35:29 (UTC)
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Kola - not Cola??
Here is a site with info about Kola Tonic which is what I think you are looking for . Looks as though it is still being made including a canned version.
http://lekker.safeshopper.com/4/106.htm?877
http://www.nmk.co.za/products/non_alcoholic/default.htm
I remember when I was a barman at the Lowenthal Theatre it was very popular mixed with lemonade.
Tony Austin [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Houston, Texas, United States
Sunday, July 27, 2003 at 12:54:44 (UTC)
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Ali Key - sorry about this. I couldn't resist it!
Ali Key composes rhymes
on Linda's probs in earlier times,
and while the words are not malicious
recalling times that were auspicious
in all our lives as GNR's,
I really can't believe the farce
that she describes took place!
But there again, I don't know Ali,
nor Linda with her hair of russet hue,
so must be extra careful over what I say or do!
However, as a sensitive-new-age-pre-baby-boomer man,
(and shit! it's really very dificult to make that scan)
I like the thought of putting things in verse
and know that my attempts could not be so much worse
than Ali's were!
The life and times we had in that fair land,
the valued memories that we all recall to mind,
have been a strong and guiding hand
in shaping all our lives. We find
that now we are dispersed throughout the earth
we really do appreciate the worth,
the value of our time in Africa.
Ray Wright [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, WA, Australia
Sunday, July 27, 2003 at 12:34:42 (UTC)
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The pincushion plant I referred to earlier is better known as the Blood lily or Snake lily - Scadoxus puniceus. It is also highly poisonous.
The famed Snake Lily of Africa. Legend has it that snakes are attracted to the spotted tunic of the leaf bases, but it is just that, an unfounded legend based upon the colouring of the bulb. However the strongly scented flowers are a no no for sufferers of Hay Fever. Still interested? Then this wonderful bright orange ball of flowers is just for your pot or semi protected garden. It can take light frost and flowers in early spring. The flowers stand up to 500 mm in height and are produced before the leaves emerge from their winter sleep.
See:- http://www.sappi.com/home.asp?pid=167 for a painting of the plant.
Both plants needs to be well established before they will flower. Advice on the web says they need shade.
I have more information on both of these plants gathered from the web - if anyone is interested - please e-mail me separately.
Cheers Ron
Ron Clibborn-Dyer [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hong Kong SAR, China
Sunday, July 27, 2003 at 11:19:18 (UTC)
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Flame Lily
Wandering along Australia's sun drenched dunes,
In my mind, hum long forgotten tunes
From a life time ago - another land and time -
When I belonged to Africa - and She was mine!
Gazing out at the Blue Pacific waves,
Nostalgia sweeps over - forgotten days.
I hear the wind in the scarlet Msasa leaves -
But feel on my skin, the warm sea breeze.
No eagles here, but seagulls fill the sky
No jackals at night, yet dingoes wander by
Koalas and possums are unique wild game
And other strange creatures - it's just not the same!
Then on a dune - a sea of brilliant red, and gold and green!!!
A Vision of beauty - a fondly remembered dream!
My heart skips a beat, my mouth turns dry -
For Africa has come to me, as I walk on by!
Scarlet petals reach for the heavens above -
A symbol of all that I long for - my special love!
Emerald green tendrils of vine holding firm
To the dune grasses and growing onto another in turn.
This symbol of Africa, is at home so far away.
It grows and thrives, has adapted to stay.
The Flame Lily now helps support this foreign land.
How did it arrive - by whose hand?
So too we must change and grow,
Share with others what we love and know.
Adapt to suit our new world and ways -
Look forward to another future - other ways.
© Pam Crowther
23.10.00
Pam Crowther
Ron Clibborn-Dyer [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hong Kong SAR, China
Sunday, July 27, 2003 at 11:12:18 (UTC)
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Hello Peter Bromwich,
Before one can help you with advice on growing Flame Lilies one needs to know which plant you are talking about.
There is one Flame Lily - Lilium gloriosa - that is a poisonous climber with tendrils at the tip of each leaf with the most beautiful flame like flowers that emerge from the node between the leaves and the stem.
That grows from an underground tuber that sometimes needs several years to settle in one spot before producing any growth. It can be grown from seed.
There is another Flame Lily - I forget the Latin name offhand - but it could often be seen at the roadsides or out in the bush along the GNR when it burst into flower like a massive red pincushion. This lovely plant has an underground bulb and the flowering spikes appear well before the leaves. The leaves are broad and similar to those of a Tulip.
Is either of these the Flame Lily that you refer to ?
They should both grow well in well drained soil in full sunlight. The climber will need support.
Both grow in Hong Kong too.
Cheers Ron
Ron Clibborn-Dyer [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hong Kong SAR, China
Sunday, July 27, 2003 at 09:48:28 (UTC)
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Hi Ayub,
I remember Cola Tonic clearly. I tried to find a supplier when I came back to the UK in 1987 but was unsuccessful. One of Google's contributors describes it as a non-fizzy Coca-Cola but in my recollection there was more to it than that. If you do find out more please let me know.
Mike
Mike Wilson [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Dawlish, Devon, United Kingdom
Sunday, July 27, 2003 at 06:35:27 (UTC)
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Browsing thru the messages I was reminded about the movie "Animals are Beautiful People" which I have been looking for, for a long time. Does anyone know where I can get a North American version?
Gill K
Gill Kopy (née Bennett) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Northern British Columbia, Canada
Sunday, July 27, 2003 at 05:24:11 (UTC)
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Does anyone know of a drink called "COLA TONIC" which used to be available in Zambia in the 60's
Also ,the former Australian cricket captain and now TV pundit, Ritchie Benaud, intimated that he first bowled "a flipper" in Ndola, in or around 1960. Anyone watched the Aussies play there?
Ayub Ismail Zumla [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Manchester, United Kingdom
Saturday, July 26, 2003 at 17:54:23 (UTC)
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My first ever message to a message board.
Does anyone remember the Zambia Special cocktail served at the Ridgeway Hotel? Do you know either the ingredients or how to make it?
A second problem. In this part of Spain the weather is very similar to that of Luanshya, apart from the snow. I cannot get Flame Lilies to grow. Does anyone have any advice?
Many thanks,
Peter Bromwich.
Peter Bromwich [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Valderrobres, Teruel, Spain
Saturday, July 26, 2003 at 17:19:40 (UTC)
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With her red hair.and curls too,
there sat Lindy loo
staring out in the dusty NR dreamland.......
with her chin resting in her hand
like all little girls of Africa, no fear to be had....
until from the depths of the of the "S" bend..
snap snap came a cheezy grin......
all toothy and thin
a little crocodile looking for a friend...
oh my! oh my ! sighed the scaly little guy
a little pink bum I spy.
a snap and a nip saw Lindy fly...
so from then until now we sorta
know why she hates water......
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Saturday, July 26, 2003 at 14:48:18 (UTC)
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Bob Gillies,
That is a blast from the past.
have recently returned from a much needed holiday in Europe. Roy is still alive but only just. he is not at all well,diabetes and associated health problems. He did achieve one of his many ambitions however. he eventually wrote a book which was published and if you would like to have more info,please contact me.
Otherwise we are well.
Cheers
The "Other Lusakaan"
Lynn Szeftel (née Mayoss) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Saturday, July 26, 2003 at 11:26:27 (UTC)
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Bob Gillies:
You must have me mistaken with someone else regarding the photo of me in the bath. When I was 4yrs old, a croc came up out the toilet and bit me on the bum and I have been afraid of water ever since. he! he!
Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Saturday, July 26, 2003 at 01:14:14 (UTC)
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Amanda MacIntosh
The All Blacks definitely played in Ndola in 1960 or 61 as we have a cine film of the match - or parts of it anyway. The captain of the All Blacks at that time was Wilson Winnery and he was my father's cousin so we also have film of him with us kids during a break from the tour. Don't have any other info as I was only two at the time but Neiles my brother would know more as he was older, interested in rugby and met Wilson, (now Sir Wilson), again a few years ago.
Bridget Billany
Bridget Billany [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Blackburn, Lancashire, England
Friday, July 25, 2003 at 19:35:10 (UTC)
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Web-based access to email accounts
I use Outlook Express for private email, and when travelling, access my account (read and send messages) through www.mail2web.com As Craig says, there are others.
Like Barry et al, I also use a Hotmail account for public/semi-public uses, and have not had a problem with it.
Paudie Coughlan [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Midleton Co Cork, Ireland
Friday, July 25, 2003 at 19:08:56 (UTC)
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I have come late to the Board and was reading about the Burton affair and the Dag Hammarskjold crash.
One of our Australian friends said a Mrs. Burton died in Perth, WA. Not our Mrs.Burton. She was burned to death in her car, together with her dog, this was somewhere around 1963, prior to independence. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but no member of the UNIP Secretariat ever uttered a word of apology for that atrocity.
Back in 1993, I was in correspondence with Ambasador Bengt Rosario of the Swedish Ministry of Foreign Affairs, after the publication of the Dag Hammarskjold Report. He sent me a 43 page document, The Ndola Disaster- Final Version, that refutes many of the fanciful theories that abounded for years after the crash.
If I can find time, I will scan it and try to convert it to the Message Board, provided always that the monitors of this site agree.
Robert Huntley [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Carmel, California, United States
Friday, July 25, 2003 at 18:41:22 (UTC)
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Johan Loots, Rod Crowe
Happy Birthday
Craig
I just don't know what this world is coming to - you disappearing over rocky horizons; Dave going west; Arthur going off fishing. You are all much too movious. Seems like I'm the only one who ever stays at home.
I do not suffer from old age, only dizziness. Is your enquiring mind satisfied now.
Keep safe and enjoy your trip.
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Friday, July 25, 2003 at 15:38:27 (UTC)
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Bugs, Nice talking to you. This site is great and I'm just starting. I believe you have a photo of Brasso standing on a Mozi crate trying to open his fridge for a beer. Like to see it. Also that one on Linda in the bath looking for the soap that time, use the coloured photo, it'll brings out the pink in her. I saw Butch and Ronnie Clifton in Durbs recently, also Veronica and Lawrence Vaughn. Nobody changes, we must be timeless. Sue says she doesn't have a photo of me, the only one I got spare is at my christening maybe I can send it. I'm finding loads of known names on GNR, it really is great knowing so many are still alive, with the booze and the way we drove, mostly on autopilot. Must be tuff cookies, to last this long. Doing handbrake turns in the moke that time at midnite on the golf course probably took years off us. I see Lynn Szeftel is on the list. Her brother Roy Mayoss and me also did the rose beds at Gilbert Rennie with my MG Midget one evening in '67 after a session at the Woodpecker in Woodlands. I lost one hubcap there so we drove to Chelston to throw the others in the bush far away to cover our tracks. I think I was destined for gardening.Anyone else out there done that? Cheers to all.
Bob Gillies [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Springs, Gauteng, South Africa
Friday, July 25, 2003 at 15:14:23 (UTC)
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IAN
On 27th July 2002 David Grey published the words for Cocki Lobben. I've copied them here for you to save you the trouble of looking for them. It was brillianly sung by the band at the Banbury Bash. You should have been there. Maybe next time ... Gary?
"Koobani Ena Balaliele Cocki Lobben"
Chorus
Zonke lo n'uni lapa moir ena kala ena kala
Ena ezweli ena efeli lo n'uni Cocki Lobben
Ena ezweeeeli, ena efeeeeli
Ena ezweli ena efeli Cocki Lobben.
Koobani ena bornile Cocki Lobben?
Mena kaluma lo Fly
Na lo picannini astronomical microscope kamena
Mena bornile Cocki Lobben!
Chorus
Koobani ena balaliele Cocki Lobben?
Mena kaluma lo Sparrow
Na lo picannini intercontinental ballistic missile kamena
Mena balaliele Cocki Lobben!
Chorus
Koobani ena digga lo grave?
Mena kaluma lo Owl
Na lo picannini foshol na lo earth moving equipment kamina
Mena digga lo grave!
Chorus
Koobani ena kaluma lo prayers?
Mena kaluma lo Vulture
Ndaba mena kona maninge culture
Mena kaluma lo prayers!
Chorus X 2 - second to be sung very fast.
Fiona Gayther (née Ferguson) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
United Kingdom
Friday, July 25, 2003 at 10:48:53 (UTC)
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Ian
I think I can put something together - but as I recall it was in Fanicalo(?) I will ponder the rhyme this evening, hopefully other members will have some ideas as well and possibly build up a full version
Ted Mills [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Cape Town, South Africa
Friday, July 25, 2003 at 09:30:27 (UTC)
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Hi all you GNRs out there......
can anybody respond to me, with the African version of Who killed cock robin ????? I can only remember some of the verses and my grand children keep asking me to sing this song. not believing the words are AFRICAN !!!!!!!!!
Many thanks.
Ian Beckford
Ian Beckford [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tin Can Bay, Queensland, Australia
Friday, July 25, 2003 at 06:40:31 (UTC)
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Yay. I can get in!. Thanks Sue and Craig. I unblocked all the filters on hotmail and thus got the GNR note, also for the first time in ages a dozen spams! Now I've got my pw I can set the spam filters again.
Bob Gillies [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Springs, Gauteng, South Africa
Friday, July 25, 2003 at 06:09:58 (UTC)
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I have Outlook Express too and if anyone knows how to block whole domains, please let me know. It SAYS you can, but it does not work. I have put in the domain names, just like it says, but it did nothing to stop the spam coming in.
Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Friday, July 25, 2003 at 03:24:33 (UTC)
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Jacqui,
There I go ignoring your messages again. Yes, the hair is doing much better today and is also quite a bit shorter too, thanks to a visit to the barber. Tsk! I just couldn't do anything with it! :)
Final Missive on Hotmail, etc.
I forgot to add that I realise that one of the reasons people use Hotmail and other Web-based e-mail accounts is because they can access it from anywhere. However, if this is the only reason you are putting up with Hotmail, here's some good news -- by its very design, any Internet e-mail account can be accessed from anywhere in the world! Your ISP-provided e-mail address is not somehow hardwired to your home or office address like your land-line telephone. Accessibility from anywhere is not a feature unique to Hotmail or Yahoo, and Web-based access is a pretty standard additional feature of most e-mail accounts. While there are multiple ways to access e-mail from multiple locations, certainly for most people accessing it through the Web makes the most sense. Ask the company that supplies your e-mail account about Web-based access to your e-mail.
I'm Away
One of the reasons that will be my final missive on this subject is that I will be away until August, and I will probably not be accessing my e-mail at all. E-mail sent through the contact form will go to Heather (did I mention that Heather?), but e-mail sent directly to my greatnorthroad.org address will go unanswered until I return. Please keep that in mind if you contact me. Thanks.
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Friday, July 25, 2003 at 02:20:46 (UTC)
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Barry,
Glad you found the comments interesting, but I'm terribly sorry old chap that I demoted you. Of course, you are anything but common. :)
You are also right about Outlook Express. Having Windows I, of course, have Outlook Express installed as well and I loaded it to write those instructions, but I didn't even notice the "Blocked Senders List" there. Looking at it now it refers to blocked e-mail addresses and domains, so it certainly is possible to block whole domains too. I also have Outlook installed, but I didn't check to see how that works -- I presume it's very similar.
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Thursday, July 24, 2003 at 21:45:11 (UTC)
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Craig
Thanks for your detailed comments - very interesting (to me anyway!) and useful.
I agree about Outlook and the use of Rules; a similar possibility also exists in Outlook Express which would be more usual on a home computer - if this is what you have, Fiona, click Tools / Message Rules / Blocked Senders List.
Now, Craig, I am normally far too cautious to take issue with any member of the GNR Politburo, but what do you mean by saying that Barry is common ???!!!
And I promise that my next posting will be germane ....
Barry Woodrow [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Reykjavik, Iceland
Thursday, July 24, 2003 at 21:22:28 (UTC)
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So much for proofreading. Add an "r" and the occasional "s" in various places in my last message.
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Thursday, July 24, 2003 at 20:35:11 (UTC)
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Fiona,
Without going into details, I believe you can block a whole domain with Outlook or any other programme that uses filters or rules just as easily as you can block a single e-mail address.
Although I don't use Outlook (for a very good reason, I might add), I assume you ae using Outlook's automated system where you "block the sender". I believe this just creates a rule, which you can edit to block the whole domain rather than just the e-mail address.
To access the rule, select Tool | Message Rules | Mail.
Hope that helps.
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Thursday, July 24, 2003 at 20:33:03 (UTC)
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Heather,
What a wonderful tale. Lucky guy! In one of Stuart Cloete's books (The Mask?) it was the trusty dog who licked the hero's face clean after it was eaten off by hyenas.
Lizd [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
United Kingdom
Thursday, July 24, 2003 at 20:32:30 (UTC)
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Like Barry I use a hotmail address for unimportant stuff. One thing about hotmail is that it's easy to block email, unlike Outlook. The latest thing seems to be to send an email from a different address every time e.g. 12345@sexyemail.com and the number before the full stop changes every time. On hotmail you can at least block all emails from @sexymail.com (or whatever). Still looking for a way to do it on Outlook where I now get probably over 100 spams a day. Any suggestions?
HEATHER
Great to see the numbers have climbed to 21. See you there all!
Fiona Gayther (née Ferguson) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
United Kingdom
Thursday, July 24, 2003 at 20:06:38 (UTC)
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Craig
Hope the hair has settled down now!
Scarscalp
I fear you are in danger of being frog-marched to the headmasters office anytime soon with Linda in tow! Hah! hah!
Jacqui Milward (née Lackenby) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
London, England
Thursday, July 24, 2003 at 16:55:53 (UTC)
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Heather,
Were your comments to Marion about old age a reference to yours or your mother's? Enquiring minds want to know. Oh, and keep safe my mate yourself. :)
Barry et al. on Hotmail, etc.,
Having multiple e-mail accounts for different purposes is a good idea, even for your GNR membership despite my claims that our system is now safe. Managing my own domains, I have a multitude of different e-mail addresses. Of course, some get used more than the obscure ones, but most of them point to my main account anyway. Some of the addresses are used only for particular accounts or memberships. For example, to join the GNR I would set up a unique address just for the GNR, so that if it ever gets spammed I will be able to be quite certain that the GNR has sold my e-mail address -- assuming, of course, that I do not post that address in public areas like message boards. Then I can delete the address and the spam stops. (Important note: The GNR does not sell or otherwise part with our members' e-mail addresses.)
I also make extensive use of disposable e-mail addresses. These disposable addresses expire every month, so I feel quite fine giving them to even the shadiest characters on the Internet (like Johnny, for example) because, even if they spam me, the spam will stop when the address expires at the end of the month. In practice I almost never receive spam at these addresses anyway, because they expire before they can make it onto the various address lists that are bought and sold on the Internet.
Additionally, because I own my own domain (actually I own several, but for personal purposes you only need one), I have no need even to consider using someone like Hotmail or Yahoo. Buying and managing your own domain is very cheap and simple these days, and really is something that most people should consider as seriously as they would the options from their telephone company or the options on a new car. For probably close to the equivalent of US$10 a month (including domain registration), you can operate your own domain and set up a system similar to the one I use. It will be more reliable than Hotmail, fully under your control, and portable. Being portable is important -- free is nice, but if Hotmail (or whoever your free provider might be) shuts down tomorrow, you can kiss your Hotmail address goodbye because you don't own the domain hotmail.com. On the other hand, if you own barrywoodrow.com, it's yours forever as long as you renew it every year, and you can host it wherever you want.
As for how your "secret" address gets so much spam -- there are several ways for that to happen. I think you have sent me e-mail from your main address before but I can't remember what it is off the top of my head. However, if the address is barry@whatever, you will get spam because spammers compile mailing lists based on combining common first names with domains they know exist. You can avoid this by making your e-mail address something like barryw@whatever. Also, they quite often just sick to the three main top-level domains (TLDs), which are .com, .net and .org, so if your address uses a ccTLD (country-code top-level domain) like .is for Iceland or .uk for the UK, then you further reduce the possibility of being exposed to spam.
Another way a "secret" address gets on mailing lists is through the forwarding of jokes and chain letters. So many people don't know or don't care about deleting the headers of forwarded messages. Eventually that joke that you only sent to one friend, who then sent it to 3000 of his closest friends, reaches a spammer and there's your e-mail address ripe for the picking. Whenever I send something that I think might be forwarded I use one of my disposable e-mail addresses, even if it is to just one family member or close friend.
I've written longer tracts on this subject before. One of these days I will condense what I have learned into a single article with a concrete list of suggestions, and market the system with NinerNet. Using it I get almost no spam (without even using the spam filters that are becoming quite common), and the spam I do receive I get for very specific reasons that I can point to where I have not followed my own advice.
Of course, this doesn't have anything to do with the GNR or Northern Rhodesia / Zambia, but I am using my prerogative to educate the GNR public to some extent. :)
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Thursday, July 24, 2003 at 16:37:04 (UTC)
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Jeremy Tucker, Athal Jones, Wendy Rankin
Happy Birthday
John Sweet
The road to the Dag memorial is now tarred, but it is still a very deserted road with lots of dips that would certainly become flooded in the wet season.
Lizd
A few years ago I was told the story about somebody who was attacked by a croc when his boat capsized on the Zambezi (caused by a hippo I think). He managed to get to the bank and haul himself out of the water, following which he passed out. When he came round some hours later, the wounds were apparently crawling with ants, which had had the effect of cleaning them out. I also understand that a buffalo had lain down next to him and kept him safe from the hyenas which were loitering in the area. I have not verified all these details with the person it supposedly happened to, but he was definitely attacked by a croc.
Sue Forde
Oh dear. I often find that people put messages to do with the GNR on the Lowdown guestbook and I do contact them and point them in the right direction. The only problem is that I only look at my guestbook about once every three or so months and haven't done it for ages, hence the reason why I have not responded to Bobby's message. Please apologise to him on my behalf.
Craig
Thanks for your high-horse comments on Hotmail - I now understand why the email I've been trying to get through to Gil Wilson from my GNR address is not going anywhere. Keep safe my mate!!
Scarscalp
Pasop! With comments like that you could end up with another scar on your scalp!! Or even somewhere else.
Marion
My mother tells me that the photo I am thinking of is grass not maize, but I'm sure she's wrong (old age you know). I'll go and check it myself. But if it is grass, then I'll take a photo of a good crop of maize sometime but now is not the right time as it has all just been harvested.
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Thursday, July 24, 2003 at 15:32:44 (UTC)
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Scarscalp:
It's not only Artie's fish he does that with either...oops sorry, couldn't resist. Luv ya Artie!!
Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Thursday, July 24, 2003 at 13:20:48 (UTC)
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HEATHER,
thank you for permission to use the mushroom photo, but the REAL discussion this time was about the maize.
I would really appreciate a picture of the tallest maize you can find, as it has become a standing joke now, everyone ribbing me about tall maize.. I clearly remember a photo of my Dad standing next to a field of maize that towered to nearly twice his height, but CANNOT find it!
thanks
Marion
Marion Murphy [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
United States
Thursday, July 24, 2003 at 12:51:05 (UTC)
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Hi Ted, yes I do have a brother Michael and we lived in Serenji Avenue. Mike lives in Johannesburg (he had a heart transplant 3 years ago) and is still in touch with Phil, Gert (Beatrice) and Fluffy Nel. Gert and Fluffy live in Johannesburg and Phil I think lives in the Eastern Transvaal. Unfortunately your name doesn't ring a bell with me, but then I am not very good with names!!
Isn't this site great, I have made contact and also met up with people I thought I would never see or hear from again?
Betty Mahady (née Horn) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
United Kingdom
Thursday, July 24, 2003 at 11:40:03 (UTC)
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Craig, Dave, Ali and Ted
I've used a Yahoo! (U.K.) email account for about 7 years now, for one purpose only - as an email address to post in public or semi-public areas on the Web. My registered email with the GNR is still my Yahoo! address, even though I know that Craig has now made this a secure area.
My theory was that I didn't want my prime email address (on an Icelandic server) overwhelmed by spam resulting from the public (or semi-public) display of my email.
This worked well until about a year ago when I began to receive increasing amounts of junk mail into my prime mail box. A quick look at the trash folder shows that the filters are pulling 40-60 junk mails per day with another 10-20 leaking through and having to be manually trashed. This compares with 5-10 junk mails leaking through the Yahoo! filters daily.
Either my precautions were useless or my friends are selling my "secret" email address to bulk mailers!!
I've never had reason to think that Yahoo! (and I still use the free service, not the subscription one) is anything less than a reliable system.
Barry Woodrow [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Reykjavik, Iceland
Thursday, July 24, 2003 at 09:16:01 (UTC)
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Craig
I agree about Hotmail. and Yahoo. but I have found a hotmail account thay I use whilst overseas on bussiness and have had no trouble with it. The mail server resides in South Africa and I suspect that the membership is very low. The only draw back are the banners ect. If Bob likes He can contact me and I will pass on the site - Im reluctant to broadcast it for some of the reasons already mentioned by you and Dave
Ted Mills [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Cape Town, South Africa
Thursday, July 24, 2003 at 07:41:15 (UTC)
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Dear All,
Dont be fooled by the photo of the mushroom, its not what it seems. Its an old Tesco mushroom held up close to the lens of the camera, with the bloke just far enough in the background to give the photo creedence. I have seen Mr Steevens do the same thing with photos of fish in the past.
Sorry Heather, couldn't resist.
Scarscalp [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Cumbria, United Kingdom
Thursday, July 24, 2003 at 06:14:51 (UTC)
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Craig..Dawie
I use outlook express...my outdated horsepowered system won't have any other email account....(it crashes )....I also get prolific amounts of spam...and has got to the point, where it is like looking for a needle in a haystack for the genuine emails.....
Heather......so nice to see that giant mushroom again....
Ali
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Thursday, July 24, 2003 at 02:43:24 (UTC)
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Heather,
Wow, what a huge mushroom! In the stores here we are used to coin sized mushrooms and it would come as a shock for people to see that one.
The backyard of the house I lived in Chelston was adjacent to the maize fields of the Natural Resources Development College (NRDC) college in Lusaka, and I remember the maize being very tall, though exactly how tall my now hazy memory does not now recollect. I do remember that the sorghum plants were even taller.
Chandru Krishna [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Rockville, Maryland, United States
Thursday, July 24, 2003 at 00:40:03 (UTC)
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Craig
No you are NOT alone about Hotmail accounts. The same for Yahoo. The same for AOL. And WE are not alone about this either, I have already referred you to John Walker's (founder of Autodesk) site, where he proves that AOL accounts and the people who use them are prone to this sort of thing. See www.fourmilab.ch under Titanium Cranium Awards under Humour. There is also a great bumper sticker about EVIL EMPIRES. John is a cool bloke, in my opinion.
Dawid die Verskriklike
Peoples Republic of San Francisco
Dave Cooper [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Amsterdam, Nederland
Wednesday, July 23, 2003 at 23:56:58 (UTC)
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Jacqui,
Sorry, I'm too busy having a bad hair day on my high horse here, and I forgot to thank you for your wishes.
Thank-you.
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Wednesday, July 23, 2003 at 22:46:36 (UTC)
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HOTMAIL
For the information of everyone here, I find that 99% of my e-mail problems (particularly missing e-mail) occur with people who use Hotmail accounts. I think their mail servers are too busy letting all the spam through to let the legitimate e-mail through. For the life of me I can't figure out why anyone would use a Hotmail account, but 50 billion people and Microsoft can't be wrong so I must be the dumb one.
If you must use a free, Web-based e-mail account, I suggest Yahoo! They even have a half decent for-fee option. Hell, even an obscure company like NinerNet Communications is worth considering, although they are not free, and their site is woefully out of date and lacks automated sign-up due to all they time they put into certain other sites.
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Wednesday, July 23, 2003 at 22:44:16 (UTC)
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Sue/Bob,
I heard from Bob and I replied, but Hotmail is either losing or filtering his incoming mail. Here is my reply to him of July 22nd:
Hi Bob,
Thanks for your message. Are you saying that, even though you enter your e-mail address () into the password-recovery form at http://www.greatnorthroad.org/names/lost_password.php and click the "Please send me my password" button, your password does not arrive in your e-mail account? If that is the case, please check to see that Hotmail is not filtering messages from greatnorthroad.org into a junk mail filter or your trash. If it is, then you probably won't receive this message either.
Please advise.
Craig
At 03:07:22 16:21 +0000 Bob Gillies wrote:
Bob Gillies () on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 at 09:21:26 PDT
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: I forgot my password and have been putting my e mail address in the section for lost passwords expecting my password to be e mailed to me. I see numerous old mates and cannot e mail them because I cannot get in. Please help - I have been submitting my e mail address numerous times to get my password Help please!!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Apparently my prediction above came true.
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Wednesday, July 23, 2003 at 22:34:45 (UTC)
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Heather!
Now that's what we Zambians call a MUSHROOM! (The side plate-sized ones are button mushrooms, aren't they?
I have real trouble trying to tell my family about the termite mounds and the mushrooms - they always respong with "I didn't know Kitwe was in Texas!"
Jilly
Jill Aplin [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
South Africa
Wednesday, July 23, 2003 at 19:55:46 (UTC)
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Craig
Hope you had a wonderful day on your birthday! Sorry to be posting this so belatedly but I have been away for a few days to Silverstone for the British F1 Grand Prix and have only just caught up with the board!
Heather
I am glad the numbers are increasing for the Lark after all the effort you have put into this! By the way - what is a "left left"? hah! hah!
Take care everyone xx
Jacqui Milward (née Lackenby) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
London, England
Wednesday, July 23, 2003 at 18:24:27 (UTC)
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G'day GNR-ers,
Another good friend has surfaced... someone we haven't heard of for years. Well done Great North Road!!!!
Mike Magor reads the board and apparently told Bobby Gillies about the GNR. Bobby registered but frustratingly has been unable to post messages on the board. He has asked me to post the following on his behalf. Bobby, many of you will remember, lived in Kitwe late 60's early 70's.
Now I have a photo of Mike and Les Magor somewhere but I don't think I have one of Bobby - don't know why...
Slán
Sue Forde
QUOTE: I forgot my password on the GNR and have, for weeks been submitting my e-mail address in the Lost Password Section, with no answer.
I need to contact some people on the GNR and cannot send an e-mail. Please Helllllp!
I tried to e-mail www.lowdown.com to reach Heather Chalcraft but no success there either. Does the Lost Password thing work?
Bob Gillies e-mail gilliesrobert@hotmail.com. Someone please contact me. :UNQUOTE.
Sue Forde [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Midleton, Co. Cork, Ireland
Wednesday, July 23, 2003 at 17:38:20 (UTC)
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Norma Gogle, Lindsay Redman, Alan Hogg
Happy Birthday
Marion
Is this mushroom, which was originally posted on the message board in November 2001, big enough?
My mother has a photograph of the type of maize you are looking for. I'll get it in the next few days and scan it.
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Wednesday, July 23, 2003 at 16:02:07 (UTC)
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Dick had major surgery to his jaw - removing half of it and doing a bone transplant to try to build it up (the damage done originally not by cancer but the treatment for it!) After a week or so it became apparent that all was not well as the stench could be smelt as soon as the lift doors opened. The consultant eventually told me, in a very snooty fashion, that he had 'necrotising fasciitus' but that as we had been in Africa had probably not heard of this before. Darn right I hadn't but had smelt it before - rotting meat. Weeks passed with Dick on all sorts of antibiotics and dressings and I was so tempted to suggest using paw-paw as I had read about it's magical properties years before or even maggots to clean out the rotting flesh. But if course, I was chicken - a hot-shot consultant would not have taken kindly to the likes of me suggesting such unorthodox procedures. Maybe I should have though because obviously the transplant failed and he lost so much flesh that the next attempt failed as well as there was not enough skin or blood supplies left to work with. I do believe that there is a lot to be said for these alternative remedies though.
Lizd [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
United Kingdom
Wednesday, July 23, 2003 at 15:51:21 (UTC)
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Betty
I seem to remember you had a brother Micheal, did you not. In fact did you not live just down the road from us. We lived in Abercorn ave then just down from you was Philip Beatrice and Fluf Nel
Ted Mills [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Cape Town, South Africa
Wednesday, July 23, 2003 at 11:29:59 (UTC)
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Ted Mills
I remember very vividly the refugees from the Congo. I lived in Bancroft at the time and the Moth Hall was used to house and feed some of the people. Between my mother and my aunt they put up a family of 9 children. The parents went back to the Congo for a while and then returned to collect the children. We heard from them once or twice after that then lost contact. I was only a young girl at the time so cannot remember the family's name. All I do know was that they used to come through once a month to buy their meat from my aunt who was part owner of Copperfields Butchers in Bancroft.
Marion
I remember the mushrooms very well. When my husband first arrived in Zambia from Scotland he was absolutely amazed at the size of the mushrooms and very amused when we used to rush off to the bush to look for them after a rain storm. I have never tasted mushrooms like them ever again - the closest I have come to the taste are the oyster mushrooms which are very expensive. We used to come home from these mushroom picking sessions with baskets full, fry them up in butter and have a feast of fresh mushrooms on bread. My mouth is watering as I write this.
Betty Mahady (née Horn) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
United Kingdom
Wednesday, July 23, 2003 at 09:45:35 (UTC)
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With all this talk of Dag Hammarskjold, it takes me back to 59/60 The belgian refuges were pooring through the border between Congo and NR. As a boy scout we sat at the border post (Kasumbalesa) serving bread and soup to the refuges. Does anyone else remember those times? As happened I was in Australia for a few months working on contract and one of the permanent staff (probably 20 year old at the time) remembers vividly he and his mother coming through the post. needless to say a few 'frosty's' were consummed
Ted Mills [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Cape Town, South Africa
Wednesday, July 23, 2003 at 07:02:43 (UTC)
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Marion
regards the mushrooms being as big as pizzas, you are right. I remember them growing on my sister and brother in-law's plot in Garneton.
Here in Zululand we have a mushroom which must be of the same type as grew up there. These mushrooms can not be cultivated and acually grow from the nests of Harvester Ants (a type of white ant) these mushrooms only appear very shortly after an electrical storm. It seems the storm triggers it's growth.
I had an area at the bottom of my yard here in Eshowe where every rainy season these mushrooms would appear after a storm. One day I came home from work and went to check on my mushroom patch (they grow very quick in that the will break ground in the morning and are like full size by evening) on inspection I found these ants all over the mushroom, so I picked it, brushed the ants off and decided that ants and I were definatly not sharing these delicacies, so after putting the mushroom in the kitchen I went to the garden shed and mixed up a brew of ant poision and poured it all over the patch in the garden. That was the last mushroom I had for several years.
In Zululand these mushrooms are called "MAKOWE" (I think I have the spelling correct) and it is said that Eshowe got it's name from them. During the Zulu War of the 1870's the British forces set up camp in Eshowe and in the morning when the Zulus apprached Eshowe they saw the hill top covered in white mushrooms. These were actually the British tents.
Cheers for now,
Philip Pain [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Eshowe Kwazulu Natal, South Africa
Wednesday, July 23, 2003 at 05:00:51 (UTC)
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Doug, Carole, Jill, Fiona, Gill, Johnny, Philip and Lynne, Ali, Gary, Sue and Paudie, Heather,
Thank-you for the birthday wishes. Philip -- very impressive. Remember to close those HTML tags. That's my tip for the day. :)
Ron,
I can attest to the use of ginger as an anit-nauseant, as Sandra used it during her chemotherapy, on the advice of a friend who also used it.
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Tuesday, July 22, 2003 at 23:18:40 (UTC)
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Heather,
Thanks for posting the photographs of the Dag Hammarskjold memorial.
They bring back memories of my visit to the site in the early 70's. The drive was several miles along a deserted dirt road. It was the rainy season and the road was flooded in many places. As I was alone, I would walk through the water to check the depth, then reverse the car, accelerate at max to get as much momentum as possible and charge through.
Happy memories of carefree days.
John Sweet [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Reedley, California, United States
Tuesday, July 22, 2003 at 20:58:57 (UTC)
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There is an account of the Hammarskjold crash in context with the political situation at that time in "The Welensky Papers" by J.R.T. Woods. In this account it states that Julian was burnt in escaping from the plane and died after a few days of kidney failure. It also makes the assumption that the pilot had flown more hours than he should have and that he might have mistaken Ndolo in the Congo for Ndola. I also have the Welensky's book, 4000 Days of Federation - or something like that my brother in law borrowed the book so I am not sure of its title - but I do know that there is an interesting account in there of the crash and the causes or the supposed causes.
Steven and Margaret de Lange (née Margaret Charles) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Langley, British Columbia, Canada
Tuesday, July 22, 2003 at 20:12:24 (UTC)
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This message is for Arthur Steevens
Hi, I stand corrected, it was Rhokana Swimming Pool, but the older one gets, the harder it is to remember these small details. I have not been in the GNR for a week, si only saw your message this morning. Yes, I did go to Fredererick Knapp School from Std. 4 and then to the Kitwe High, I recognize the odd name on the GNR, but I was never too good at names!!!!
Lynne Hopkinson
Lynne Hopkinson (née Harris, formerly de Lange) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Kaleden, British Columbia, Canada
Tuesday, July 22, 2003 at 16:58:55 (UTC)
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Debby Scarff, Pat Forbes Smith, Jack Galaun
Happy Birthday
Livingstone Lark
Good news this morning - Craig is also coming!! Jislaike, I'd better get moving and get things organised because I'm going to have two of them looking over my shoulder!
Ron Clibborn-Dyer
Thank you for all those remedies, some of which I use already. Black jack tea all works well for bad stomachs and we use onion on either bee or wasp stings, can't remember just which right now.
Dag Hammarskjold
Last time I was up on the Copperbelt, I stopped at the Dag Hammarskjold Memorial. Here are some photos:
the monument, the anthill which the aircraft ploughed into and the caretaker at the library (I can't right now find where I wrote his name down) with the library in the background. The aircraft apparently came in over where the library is travelling towards where I was standing to take the photo. the anthill was behind me.
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Tuesday, July 22, 2003 at 11:13:13 (UTC)
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Marion,
Don't be put off by the doubting Thomas fraternity - Maise can grow very tall - not only in 'Oklahoma' where it grows as high as 'an elephants eye'
I have just been reading an account of a voyage around the world in 1876 in which just such remarks are made about the height of this exciting 'new' crop.
I imagine that farmers would prefer the sweet corn to grow as short as possible so that more of the energy goes into the corn cob rather than into the stem, but surely we have some farmers on the GNR who can speak with authority on the subject.
With regard to the Hammerskold crash - there has been much speculation over the years and anyone interested now should do a Google search for Dag Hammerskold and read the small print.
Barbara Kingsolver - an American woman who wrote a fascinating fictional story about a missionary family in the Congo comes very close to the mark in my view in her conclusions as to why the American and British security services did not want the Congo Peace talks to succeed.
If we had had the forensics experts and methods available then that we have now, I am sure they would have been able to establish more precisely what had actually happened.
But even so, who is to say that the truth could not have been suppressed by the powers that be in those days - as much as it is being suppressed today.
Veronica's father - Bob Read, as the senior police officer in the area was waiting for the plane to arrive at Ndola that fateful night - he saw the lights of an aircraft fly over in the dark - but they did not return.
I flew up to Kitwe later as baggage master on the government flight when RAB Butler [I think it was him] went to the resumed peace talks - we nearly lost him in a storm on the way up as his plane did a detour round the clouds whilst we in the baggage plane went straight through them. There was no accomodation for me in Kitwe for that event and I slept in a chair in the police mess.
On the return trip I lost one bag - but as it was my own nobody noticed and I escaped unscathed.
When John Kennedy was assassinated I heard the news seated on a bar stool in Lusaka Central Police Mess with a cold Lion Ale served by Wilson the bar steward in my hand and my dog Scrubbs sitting on the bar stool beside me eating potato chips. We all stopped in our tracks [or mid sip] on hearing that news - even the dog [in mid bite]
Who else remembers that event so vividly ?
Cheers Ron
Ron Clibborn-Dyer [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hong Kong SAR, China
Tuesday, July 22, 2003 at 09:27:53 (UTC)
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Heather,
Honey is a great and very ancient healing balm as you have discovered.
Another great healer is sliced onion - this can be applied to open wounds cuts and grazes and held on with a plaster or bandage - changed daily it helps rapid healing and leaves almost no scar tissue - it can be used togegther with honey for greater effect if you don't mind that sticky feeling.
Pawpaw flesh is also reputed to be a magic healer of raw flesh wounds - as well as being a meat tenderiser.
If you have a runny tummy - taking some of the fresh Pawpaw seeds will sort you out quickly - they taste a bit peppery.
Chopped onion in a jam jar covered with runny honey makes a most wonderful 'jungle juice' muti for sore throats and coughs, but so does ginger and citrus fruit in hot water with honey, or garlic cloves in rose hip syrup.
I would be interested to know if the onion would work well on an injured animal such as you describe at Shiwa Ngandu.
Lastly - Ginger is a great preventer of air, sea and car sickness. You can chew it raw if you can stomach it, but the Australians make special Ginger pills for these maladies.
Cheers Ron
Heather wrote:
I have recently been using a lot of honey because I have developed an allergy which manifests itself in a rash on my legs.
Rubbing honey onto it, apart from making one very sticky, has done wonders. And I've been doing a little scientific research at the same time - using honey on my left left, aloe vera on my right leg. The honey wins hands down.
Jo Harvey (of Shiwa Ng'andu) has also recently used honey to very good effect.
They had a lion which had started attacking their livestock. One night, they were woken by the horses making a lot of noise. The lion had attacked one of their horses and she used honey on it. She showed me photos recently of the horse just after the attack and six weeks later - just amazing, could hardly even see any scars.
Ron Clibborn-Dyer [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hong Kong SAR, China
Tuesday, July 22, 2003 at 08:56:29 (UTC)
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Hi Bill
the report I have makes no mention of the navigation manual, although the commission of inquiry's conclusions were that the the plane had not been shot down and that pilot error was the cause of the crash.
The Swedish press at the time hinted that the survivor (Harry Julian) was murdered to prevent him from reveling what had happened on that night. The Swedish press kept to the theory that the DC-6 had been shot down. This they based on a story which they got from two charcoal burners who said they had seen a jet fighter following Dag's plane a little before the crash.
It is interesting to see that Mr. Cecil Margo served on the commission of inquiry for the Federal Government.
The United Nations inquiry found that there was no evidence that the plane had been shot down or that it was sabotaged. They also rebuked the Rhodesians for their delay in finding the wreck and being unwilling or unable to come to any conclusions as to the cause of the crash.
Food for thought:-
Why did Dag Hammarskjold suddenly change his mind about landing at Ndola?
What was his new destination? (the aircraft had enough fuel for 13 hours flying.)
Cheers
Philip Pain [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Eshowe Kwazulu Natal, South Africa
Tuesday, July 22, 2003 at 05:08:01 (UTC)
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Marion - assuming your father was Tickey the Clown ; then , yes , the maize grew twice as high as he ......
:'}
Doug Waybush [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Maryland, USA, and London, England
Tuesday, July 22, 2003 at 00:34:37 (UTC)
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Heather
Thanks a million Heather..re the Birth Cert, have sent you an email accordingly
Ali
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Tuesday, July 22, 2003 at 00:26:29 (UTC)
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Hello Everyone,
it's been a while since i posted, hope everyone is well. I have a question. You know how no one believes you when you say the mushrooms were as big as a pizza.. or the maize was as high as an elephants eye...?
I was virtually called a liar when i innocently commented that the maize grew to be almost twice as high as my father, and sometimes touched the low telephone wires. Does anyone remember it growing that high, and have a photo to prove it??
thanks
Marion
Marion Murphy [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
United States
Monday, July 21, 2003 at 20:28:05 (UTC)
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Philip Pain
Dag Hammarskjold Crash
As I remember there were other facts that were mentioned at the inquiry:
1. Hammarskjold had been flown all around the Congo all day in an effort to get agreement between all parties.The pilot & crew had exceeded regulation flying hours & were fatigued.
2. The navigation manual was recovered from the wreck & found 'book marked' at the Gabon town of Ndjole - the altitude of this runway is 500ft above sea level - (as you know, Ndola runway is about 4000ft above sea level.)
It was surmised that the plane flew into the ground due to this small error!
I was verbally attacked while in Sweden in 1983 by a former Swedish UN Congo Force Captain as an animal belonging to a nation of murderers that were responsible for the demise of their Hero!
regards
Bill Hunt [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Widenham, Natal, South Africa
Monday, July 21, 2003 at 19:52:51 (UTC)
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Been away for a cople of days. Such a joy to scroll the GNR after trashing email rubbish - spam.
To John..... Hi to you too. Good to see someone from Kitwe on the net. Too bad you dont live in Mufulira - the garden of eden
Linda HAYES.... you are such a doll! Shame that I dont live in USA cause then I could use you as a travel agent.
You remind me of all the neat (but forbidden .... by wehom? I cant recall....) girls I never had the courage to say hi to. Yowza.
Bill
William Knott [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Monday, July 21, 2003 at 19:51:53 (UTC)
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Craig
A belated Happy Birthday and thanks a million for all you do for the GNR.
Cheers - Doug
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Monday, July 21, 2003 at 18:56:13 (UTC)
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THE DAG HAMMARSKJOLD MYSTERY
N
This event happened on the 18th.September 1961. Dag Hammarskjold was to fly in a DC-4 from Njili Airport at Leopolville on the evening of th 17th. for a meeting with Moise Tshombe to try and find a settlement for the civil war in Katanga.
1) At the last moment before take off, Dag changed aircraft to a DC-6B.(This was the aicraft normally used by Lt-Gen Sean McKeown. Commander of the United Nations military forces)
2) This aircraft had been damaged by machine-gun fire the previous day while taking off from Elisabethville but certified airworthy.
3) Thirteen people were on board the aircraft with D.H.
4) There was no flight plan filed to fly to Ndola.
5) Shortly after midnight on the 18th.an aircraft was heard approaching Ndola Airport from the East. at an estimated altitude of between 8 000 to 12 000 feet.
6) Salisbury control tower had contact with the DC-6B at about 11.15 p.m. and gave an estimated time of arrival for Ndola as 12.35
7) The DC6-6 crashed at the Dola Hill forest plantation, eight miles from Ndola.
8) Thirteen people died on the scene.
9)One survived for a week before dying of his injuries, but before he died he said that Hannarskjold had changed his mind about landing at Ndola and shortly after changing course there was an explosion on board, followed by a series of smaller explosions
10) In January 1962 a commission of inquiry was held in the Ndola High Court chaired by the Federal Chief Justice Sir John Clayden.
11) Before the investigation there was speculation over two questions.
a)Was the DC-6B shot down by one of the two jets from the Katanga Air Force?
b)Were the bullets found in the some of the bodies fired from guns or were they a result of exploding ammo. from the fire after the crash?
12) Swedish explosive experts testified that the bullets had been fired through the barrel of a gun.
13) The commision upheld that the bullets came came from exploding ammo.This was based on X-rays.
14) Major Delin of the Katanga Air Force gave evedence that his jets were based at Kolwezi, and Ndola was out of there range.He also stated at the inquiry that he knew that the DC-6 carring Dag was going to Ndola that night.
I would like to hear your comments. N.B. All this is public knowlede.
Cheers
Philip Pain [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Eshowe Kwazulu Natal, South Africa
Monday, July 21, 2003 at 18:51:46 (UTC)
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Journey to a Boyhood Adventure
It’s often said that most memories or experiences are linked to smells, & certainly my mental recollection of an evening stroll with my parents & brother, on the very first day of our arrival on The Copperbelt, is always invoked by the fragrance of a season’s first rain shower, after any lengthy dry & hot spell of weather, on a dusty road & newly burnt forest grass.
Most Northern Rhodesian folk will remember the long, dry, hot oppressive Northern Rhodesian October “Suicide Month’ weather that always preceded the sudden heavy rains which wrecked many a boy’s 5th of November Guy Faulkes celebration plans! (Apparently no problem for Master Philip Paine, the new & prolific boyhood memoir scribe on the GNR; his homemade lethal concoctions were obviously waterproof & always ignited, most times unintentionally!)
At this time, just such a short sharp heavy downpour had thoroughly dampened the red laterite perimeter road that formed a boundary between the dense forest & the Mining Camp.
The resulting unique smell was to be forever lodged in my brain’s olfactory data bank!
It was 1942; the Second Great War had been accepted as a part & way of life with its incumbent dangers, separations, long treks & rationing. My father had secured a job at Mufulira Copper Mines on the famous Copperbelt & the future looked brighter.
Accommodation for married Mine employees was in short supply, & since Dad’s name was way down on the long housing allocation list, we had to remain in South Africa until married accommodation became available.
Such things were not of any serious concern to my brother Ron & I, aged 3 & 5 years respectively, let parents worry about such things, that was their job! We bragged to our mates that we were going to a jungle in Darkest Africa with real wild animals, not the tame sort found in the Joburg Zoo!!
There were quite a number of senior mine staff expatriates: Americans, Canadians & UK folk, that would accumulate their leave to enable them to travel back home for their vacations, & occasionally, a ‘leave house’ would be offered for the temporary use of a family on the housing waiting list.
The houses were usually available for periods of 3 to 4 months. This facility was beneficial to both parties - the house tenant was assured that his property was safe & secure. (It was not unknown for termites, vermin & fleas to take over a house that was unoccupied for any length of time - squatter problems were not an issue yet!)
The temporary tenants were equally pleased that they could enjoy a reasonable period of family togetherness in comfortable style.
It was just such an arrangement that had seen us embark on the long rail trek to a strange country with an even stranger sounding town named Mufulira.
Dad met us at the dusty platformless Mufulira Station earlier that morning, at the end of a four day steam train journey from Johannesburg, South Africa.
Our Mom had endured the long trip pretty well despite the shenanigans of her two hyperactive coal smutted offspring.
Train compartment ablutions consisted of a shallow stainless steel basin filled with cold water sloshing around in time to the clickety clack motion of the carriage.
Keeping two protesting, wriggling kids in a reasonable state of cleanliness, was no mean task!
One of the few enjoyments of the trip for our Mom, would have been the early morning rattling of the dining car steward’s pass key on the compartment door, announcing the serving of steaming hot coffee from an expertly balanced tray as he stood in the swaying carriage corridor.
Ah! Railway coffee! Smell Memories again. In the middle of war shortages & rationing, how did they manage to produce such delicious coffee?
(A recent rail trip to Capetown confirmed that railway kitchen staff’s coffee brewing skills have not diminished over the years – albeit that this latest experience was on the famous & luxurious Blue Train.)
Trips to the Dining car were also a welcome interruption during the tediously long & slow journey with its stops at every tiny siding. Kashitu siding was one of these.
To be continued
Bill Hunt [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Widenham, Natal, South Africa
Monday, July 21, 2003 at 18:39:53 (UTC)
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Hi Northerners,
I had a wonderful holiday in Uk and returned last week. Thanks to you all who invited me to have a drinkel with you whilst I was in there. I did so enjoy them
Cheers for now
That other Lusakaan
Lynn Szeftel (née Mayoss) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Monday, July 21, 2003 at 16:26:12 (UTC)
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Guy Hobbs, Patricia Wilson, Jerry Grieve
Happy Birthday
Livingstone Lark
Numbers are creeping up slowly - 21 definites from outside of Zambia, including a certain Mr Sarky Arthur who hailed from the oh-so-posh Nkana East!!
And definitely three locals.
But there seem to be a couple of names missing from behind the Boerewors Curtain. In particular I am thinking of my friend CJ (ex the Black Hole) and Doug Grewar? Come on you two otherwise I'll begin to think you're too chicken.
Linda Hayes
Don't worry, you're not going to get away without paying because now I need a favour done (and was thinking this morning that I would ask you for help). I have just bought a lovely new full colour laser printer, but the cartridges are only available in the USA. But as you know, trying to get companies there to ship anything out to the middle of darkest Africa is next to impossible. This is where you come in. I'll be emailing you shortly with details, but I need to check my bank account first because they are not cheap.
I have recently been using a lot of honey because I have developed an allergy which manifests itself in a rash on my legs. Rubbing honey onto it, apart from making one very sticky, has done wonders. And I've been doing a little scientific research at the same time - using honey on my left left, aloe vera on my right leg. The honey wins hands down.
Jo Harvey (of Shiwa Ng'andu) has also recently used honey to very good effect. They had a lion which had started attacking their livestock. One night, they were woken by the horses making a lot of noise. The lion had attacked one of their horses and she used honey on it. She showed me photos recently of the horse just after the attack and six weeks later - just amazing, could hardly even see any scars.
David Gray
There was another side to petrol rationing. My father had a couple of tractors which ran on power paraffin. But they needed petrol to start them. The people in charge of the rationing system just could not understand this. But living here has taught perseverance and eventually he got his allocation of petrol for his tractors.
June
I'm sure the houses on 4th Avenue are still there as I don'tthink many, if any, were demolished. I will try to find out definitely
Jill Aplin
Thanks for message re George. I did get an email from him today to which I have not yet replied but will do so; if not this evening, then first thing tomorrow morning.
Alix Key
I sent you an email a couple of weeks ago asking about the address to send your birth certificate, but no response.
Sheine Fisher
I have a book which will probably tell me what happened to the Synagogue in Kitwe - I shall try to look for the info after I'm over my current work pressures.
Mwizenge Tembo
Oliver Mutukudzi will be performing in Zambia in October. I don't have the full details yet, but received the preliminary info on Friday.
Shell Depot Fire
If no one can come up with a definitive answer, give me a couple of weeks and I'll get into the archives and get the info. Just no time right now - magazine deadlines, cashew nuts, reunions and soapstone carvings are all taking up my time.
Great North Road
Officially, the Great North Road within Zambia runs from Livingstone up to the Turnpike (junction with the Chirundu/Lusaka road), turns left until it reaches Kapiri, when it turns right, through Mpika and keeps going northeast until Nakonde (Fife) on the Tanzanian border. The road from Mpika to Mbala (Abercorn) does not form part of the 'official' GNR which is known as the T4 when one deals with the engineers at the Roads Department etc. But us plebs, call it the Great North Road.
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Monday, July 21, 2003 at 16:10:17 (UTC)
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G'day Northerners,
Several of you have recently mentioned Mrs. Burton who tragically lost her life when her car was attacked and burnt outside Ndola.
On a happier note... Last Saturday evening I met her daughter Christine again at a get-together of old Ndolans at the Hydro Hotel in Eastbourne, where a dozen of us met for dinner and a long natter about old times. Christine was there with her husband Brian Winton. Also present were John and Pat Baxter, Doug and Joyce Inger, Chris and Oonagh Tilney, Brenda Kirtley, Barbara Hall, and me and my wife Margie (aka Mucky Marge).
The first get-together was in 1999 when Brenda Kirtley organised it as a 65th birthday surprise for her husband Bruce. Some of you may remember Bruce as a stalwart of the Ndola Motor Sports Club and the Lowenthal Theatre. Sadly he suffered a heart attack in September 2001 and is no longer with us.
The star of the show was Barbara Hall, ex-wife of the late Richard Hall, one-time editor of the Times of Zambia. I know it's rude to reveal a lady's age, but she won't mind me saying that she's just a few years younger than Nelson Mandela, and she still works full time for the Sunday Times in London, editing the Puzzles section and compiling the cryptic crossword. With her journalist's connections in Zambia she knew just about everybody who was anybody, and kept us entertained all night with her stories. I won't repeat any, because there may be lawyers reading this !!!
John Whitham [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Windsor, England
Monday, July 21, 2003 at 12:58:30 (UTC)
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Craig
A belated Happy Birthday wish for yesterday. Hope you had a great day.
Dave
How lucky you are to be so near that great looking research vessel. I have looked at the Algalita Research Foundation site and have to add my comments regarding plastic - as a diver it is becoming far too common to see the stuff around the coastal sites of the UK and further afield - Egypt, Thailand, Malaysia to name a few. I have seen gulls with plastic beer can holders round their necks and fish caught in plastic bags, unable to free themselves, and the worst of all, plastic bags caught all over beautiful coral reefs.
We should all think before we discard our litter. The best thing would be TO TAKE IT HOME WITH YOU and dispose of it sensibly.
Anyway I hope you are enjoying your break with your folks.
Carole
Carole Evans (née Bruce) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Doncaster, Yorkshire, United Kingdom
Monday, July 21, 2003 at 12:52:08 (UTC)
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Dave Cooper - do your friends Charlie and Sam in Los Alamitos run a bed and breakfast by any chance? The place sounds fantastic and I can understand why it brings back memories of childhood in Zambia.
Betty Mahady (née Horn) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
United Kingdom
Monday, July 21, 2003 at 11:16:44 (UTC)
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HELLO EVERYONE,
CAN ANYONE TELL ME WHAT BECAME OF THE SYNAGOGUE IN KITWE.
I REMEMBER THE SHELL FIRE.FUZZY ON THE DATE BUT I REMEMBER BEING SOMEWHERE IN THE BUSH HAVING A PICNIC BETWEEN KITWE AND NDOLA WHEN WE SAW THE SMOKE.I AM SURE I WAS AT ST JOHNS AT THE TIME AND LEFT THERE AT THE END OF 66
SHEINE FISHER
Sheine Fisher (née Bernstein) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Warner Beach, Kwa Zulu Natal, South Africa
Monday, July 21, 2003 at 08:09:07 (UTC)
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I was sitting here listening to the latest CD by Oliver Mtukuzi – the Zimbabwean who has invented his own music genre now known as “Tuku” music. This latest CD is called “The Tuku Years” a compilation of his best. The second song on the his CD is just killing me; the heavy rhythm and the rich booming voice and lyrics ignite in me a yearning and longing for that sweetness from the distant bygone past in my beloved homeland; the swift flow of the fresh smelling water of the Lundazi river, my grand mother NyaMwaza calling for us and her voice echoing in the tall trees of the nkhorongo wilderness where njiba wild pigeons sing all day. It’s a tearful yearning for a carefree past; a life and land that my grandfather left for us at Zibalwe and all the 17 seventeen villages; Mtema, Kapyanga, Chipewa and many others. I can’t help but dance. This music will stir both your soul and spirit. You may need a clinex box with you; a few tears may flow. Three of the songs may touch those taut cords in your soul in this manner. The Tumbuka may say: nyimbo yudinginyika. Closest translation being that the song “whines” or “bemoans”. English sometimes is so inadequate. Tuku music is actually a descendant of the Mbira music from the shona. Have you ever listened to the original Mbira as recorded from Rhodesia Highfields?
Mwizenge Tembo [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Virginia, United States
Monday, July 21, 2003 at 04:57:25 (UTC)
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Dawie....et al
The name of this wonderful site is truly apt. it has a special meaning to me....I was born in Northern Rhodesia.....not South of the border (sorry Craig...giggles ) a place where I imagined was like the garden of eden..the wildlife, the land itself, the thunderstorms,the mangoes, the wonderful chameleon, the goggas, the mighty Kafue..the Zambezi..the people...I could rattle on and on....it was an identity I had growing up in New Zealand as a child....(oh and there is a great north road in Auckland ! )...and the identity stayed with me when I came here to Perth.
When I found the GNR only after 2 days of joining the internet..quite by accident.....I was finaly able to share that identiy with others around the world....make the most wonderful friends, have some great laughs, tears, oh and have the privilage to walk, run, leap along the Great North Road...with all you special people..we are one of a kind....
Ali
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Monday, July 21, 2003 at 04:19:32 (UTC)
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Robert et al
A very long time ago in the mid-1990's when I thought about what name I would give this website, it occured to me that the name was obvious... what was and still is the name of the road from my birthplace (Johannesburg) to my homes in Northern Rhodesia:
The Great North Road
This is the name of the road from Johannesburg to Messina.
It is also the name of the road from Livingstone northwards. I am aware that the there is a Great East Road, and a Great North Road. I am also aware that the road from Kapiri Mposhi to Abercorn is the Great North Road. I am also aware that many people think the Great North Road leads to the Copperbelt, and it does not. I am also aware that there may be stretches of the road north of Abercorn that are called the Great North Road.
I did not mean to imply the Cape to Cairo route, but only part of it. From Johannesburg to my homes in NR (as this site was meant to be my personal website to find old lost friends at first).
I also realise that the road from Cape Town to Johannesburg might have been and may still be called the Great North Road.
There is also the Great North Road in the British Isles, which might be based on what the Roman's originally laid out.
I am also aware of a Great North Road in Canada.
There might be a Great North Road in Australia as well.
But the original intent was what we used to call the Great North Road in my childhood in Africa when we travelled between my beloved Union and Republic and Northern Rhodesia.
That was my original, modest intent. Please understand that my original idea was not to have the website that the GNR has become today. I thought you lot were all either dead, fully assimilated into your new cultures, or no longer even remembered or cared about Northern Rhodesia. I sincerely believed I was the last of the tribe, and my creation of this website was a sort of research and outreach into the wilderness to see if any of you still existed.
I was quite surprised by the response.
Hartelijke groeten...
Dave Cooper
Founder of the Great North Road website
(visiting Alta California, Greater México)
Dave Cooper [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Amsterdam, Nederland
Monday, July 21, 2003 at 00:59:35 (UTC)
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Never fear when Linda is near. I am embarking on a Detective Dore case to solve the date of the Shell Depot fire. Anybody want to take bets? What shall we have as the prize?
Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Monday, July 21, 2003 at 00:05:33 (UTC)
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Ray:
You are absolutely correct - it certainly was the Great North Road - the infamous Hell Run!
There's one way to get a response, and that's to set up an Aunt Sally to be knocked off her perch.
The fact is, I did at first want to write North, but then I began to think too deeply on the subject, instead of relying on first recall, reasoning that it is not really to the north, but more northeast! A real north road would terminate at Lake Mweru.
Dave (Cooper) :
Did you really have "Kapiri Mposhi-Dar-es Salaam" in mind when you named this site, or were you rather thinking of Cecil Rhodes' dream of a Cape to Cairo railway (or road later), as was my impression? I hope you were not anticipating a sticky, boggy passage for this great website.
David (Gray):
I find it hard to believe you could see the Shell Dump fire from Bancroft! Also 1966 would be way too early.
Robert Allan [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Melbourne, Australia
Sunday, July 20, 2003 at 23:56:23 (UTC)
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HAPPY BIRTHDAY, CRAIG!!
Thank you for all you do for us on this site.
LINDA DORE,
As I already wrote, I was very young when the fire in Kitwe and the subsequent riots broke out - and I am even older than you! How much older was your boyfriend??
HEATHER,
George Absolom is also coming to the Lark.
All animal-lovers on this site,
I should be bringing home my new Basenji puppy, Janja tomorrow. Will post a picture asap.
Jilly
Jill Aplin [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
South Africa
Sunday, July 20, 2003 at 21:10:41 (UTC)
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CRAIG
Happy birthday to you! Hope you're having a good day! I hope the next year brings you all sorts of good things.
Luv
Fiona
Fiona Gayther (née Ferguson) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
United Kingdom
Sunday, July 20, 2003 at 19:40:24 (UTC)
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Dear All
I have just checked the Mufulira site and they have updated the photo's there are some of the Mufulira bash in the UK but they are missing a few names.
Love Wilma
Wilma Wall (née Henry) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Almelo, Netherlands
Sunday, July 20, 2003 at 17:52:56 (UTC)
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Craig, Happy Birthday - have a wonderful day. We are sitting here in glorious sunshine in Aberdeen, Scotland - say whaaaat, must be astral travelling again.
Will put on Bwana Grins to say a few words.....
The last time I saw you Craig you were looking well, you did not look a day over 80 and I hope you carry on for another 80 years your Buddy Johnny.
Gill Main [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Aberdeen, Scotland
Sunday, July 20, 2003 at 07:29:01 (UTC)
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A greeting to show
you're remembered today,
in a specially warm and affectionate way,
with lots of good wishes
that all year through
all the best things in life
will be coming to you.
Happy Birthday
Craig
Regards
Philip & Lynne
Philip Pain [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Eshowe Kwazulu Natal, South Africa
Sunday, July 20, 2003 at 07:01:42 (UTC)
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YAYAYAYAYAYAY...IT WORKS !!!!
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Sunday, July 20, 2003 at 06:49:55 (UTC)
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HAPPY BIRTHDAY CRAIG.....MAY YOU HAVE MANY MORE.......
lots of love from Ali
(hope I have got this right )
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Sunday, July 20, 2003 at 06:42:05 (UTC)
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Dave:
How did your folks like the surprise? Did they enjoy the (germane) boerewors. (grin) What was that shop like, by the way? I hope I steered you in the right direction.
Can anyone in Kitwe let us know if a new building has been constructed on the spot where my (sob) beloved Kitwe Playing Fields burned to the ground?
Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Sunday, July 20, 2003 at 05:14:35 (UTC)
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Attention: Residents of Nkana/Kitwe
Could someone please tell me whether the mine houses in 4th Avenue are still there, or have they been demolished over the years? I lived in 4th Avenue as a child, and frequently wonder whether the "family home" is still there.
Many thanks.
June
June [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Christchurch, Canterbury, New Zealand
Sunday, July 20, 2003 at 04:38:44 (UTC)
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Amanda
A long, long time ago when I first brought up the issue of keeping the discussions "germane" to the GNR, we decided that relevency would include anything to do with Africa, and in particular central and southern Africa. So your discussion about the Springboks is perfectly germane, in my opinion.
Later we attempted to keep topics wholly germane by a code of conduct. This was primarily to keep the GNR from deteriorating into vitriole, as other similar neighbouring sites have become. The code of conduct was unpopular.
So we hoped that people would just keep the topics germane by their own instigation. Of course, this doesn't always happen. Take a look at my own recent posting about the oceanographic research vessel.
I do try, however, to limit my own discussions about irrelevent topics. Sometimes I am not as thorough as I like to be. What I say to myself, is... "does anyone really care about what you are about to say, Dave?" Usually the answer is negative, but sometimes, I just say "What the heck... I created this site because I was bored one night, so bugger it."
Hartelijke groeten...
Dave Cooper
Founder of the Great North Road website
(visiting Los Alamitos, southern Alta California)
¡Viva México!
Dave Cooper [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Amsterdam, Nederland
Sunday, July 20, 2003 at 03:00:22 (UTC)
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Lets see - South Africa beat Australia, The All Blacks beat South Africa and there is a World Cup coming up. Should be interesting. And how is this germane? Well recently I overheard an Old All Black who had toured South Africa in the first series after the war. They had played a game in Bulawayo and he remembered taking a train to Vic Falls. They had interrupted their sightseeing to play a pick up game and he thought the ground where they played was the otherside of the bridge! If this is true then it would have been in Northern Rhodesia.
Can this be true? There is nothing in the official records that I can find but I thought someone who lived in Livingstone in the late 40's might remember this. Playing the All Blacks would surely not be forgotten even if it was an unofficial game.
By the way the tour lasted 23 weeks and nobody got paid anything except a touring allowance of of 5 shillings a day. How things have changed
Amanda McIntosh (née Wiggins) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Auckland, New Zealand
Sunday, July 20, 2003 at 01:53:13 (UTC)
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CRAIG!!!!!!!!
BEST WISHES FOR A HAPPY BIRTHDAY YOUNG MAN.
Will drink a toast with a bottle of Rhino Beer!
Gary, Natasha & Scott.
Gary Brassington [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Banbury, Oxon., United Kingdom
Saturday, July 19, 2003 at 23:46:16 (UTC)
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Linda,
Thanks too.
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Saturday, July 19, 2003 at 19:45:36 (UTC)
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Arthur,
You old fossil yourself. Ron and I have been having a good larf at your dyslexia. :)
Heather,
Thanks.
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Saturday, July 19, 2003 at 19:41:46 (UTC)
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Hi All
I recently attended a Toastmasters conference in Durban and had the pleasure of being entertained by a guest speaker, Dr Reg Codrington who presented a seminar entitled “ Understanding why we don’t understand.” It was so enlightening, I thoughy I'd stick my neck out and share it.
His theme was based around the fact that we don’t understand our children, and the flip side, they don’t understand us. He had experienced this problem with his own children, done some research into it and came to the conclusion that we don’t understand ourselves.
This is not a difficult concept when one realises that the world changes around us and many of our core values are not seen in future generations. This is not bad and does not meant that future generations don’t have values, we must just realise that theirs are different.
He then took a concept I had hitherto only seen in relation to marketing and turned it into social definitions, that of the generation groups. He listed the groups and their values as follows.
“GI” generation – born 1910-1930 and now aged 30+. Critical influences during their youth: WW1. Core values – Close family units, Conformity (GI Joe), Respect for authority, Hard work key to success.
“Silent” generation – born 1930-1950 and now aged 50-70. Critical influences during childhood: Great depression, WW2. Core values – Dedication, Delayed reward and sacrifice, Dury before pleasure, Respect for authority.
“Baby Boomer” generation – born 1950-1970 and now aged 30-50. Critical influences during youth: Wealth, freedom. Nation building. Core values – Optimism, Health and wellness, Personal gratification, Similarity of belief, Team orientation.
Generation “X” – born 1970-1990 and now aged 10-30. Critical influences during youth: Social turmoil, television and information revolution. Core values – Change, Pragmatism, Immediate gratification, Self-reliance, Global awareness, Techno literacy.
Generation “Y” – born 1990-present and now aged 0-10. Critical influences during youth: Reconstruction and globalisation. Core values – Optimism and confidence, Sociability, Street smartness, Naivette, Change.
It is noticeable that successive groups swap optimism and pessimism and this he observed to be constant.
Comparing each group with those following, typically shows the differences between parent and child, then grandchild, and it becomes easier to understand the differences, but more important was to understand ones own groups origins and position it in today’s world to begin to understand oneself. He made it plain that the environment in which we grew up had a great deal to do with shaping our characters, which are set at quite an early age, and that we would carry these traits for life. It stands to reason that people growing up in a different age will be exposed to different shaping forces and will therefore be different. Add to this the fact that many of us ex-Northerners' children grew up in a different country as well, so the differences between them and us can be expected to be far greater.
As a typical illustrration, most of us ex-Northerners (who would be silent or baby boomers), when presented with a new appliance, would spend time studying the instruction manual before putting it to use. Our progeny would simply unpack it, plug it in and turn it on, and if it didn't work, call for help. Doesn't make them lazy or stupid, just the way they are.
The presentation was much more informative and easy to listen to as he added a lot of humour, but space is limited here.
For what it’s worth, (and NO Sarky, this is not an opportunity for you to jump on me!)
Cheers
Owen
Owen Thomas [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Henley on Klip, Gauteng, South Africa
Saturday, July 19, 2003 at 18:31:55 (UTC)
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Happy birthday for tomorrow, Craig. Oh, to be that young again. Don't get too tipsy.
Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Saturday, July 19, 2003 at 18:23:50 (UTC)
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N O R T H E R N E R S!
This link takes you to an image of the Algalita Oceanographic Research Vessel which is moored across the street from where I am currently sitting right now. (See my earlier email).
This link takes to the website of the Algalita Marine Research Foundation.
As mentioned earlier, I am staying with people here in Long Beach who run and operate this organisation. It is a good thing that they are doing. I wish I could contribute to positive work like this!
Geniet die naweek!
Groetjes...
Dave Cooper
Founder of the Great North Road website
(Temporarily in southern California)
Dave Cooper [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Amsterdam, Nederland
Saturday, July 19, 2003 at 16:55:05 (UTC)
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Craig
Thanks for the lovely long email... we will be thinking of you tomorrow.
Slán
Sue & Paudie
Sue Forde [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Midleton, Co. Cork, Ireland
Saturday, July 19, 2003 at 16:33:43 (UTC)
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Craig
I know this is early, but we will be without power tomorrow as ZESCO are doing maintenance, so .....
Happy Birthday
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Saturday, July 19, 2003 at 14:55:30 (UTC)
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Hi Chris:
I am just checking with my boyfriend at the time, and telling him no wonder he had a reputation as a cradle snatcher. He! He! Always did date people a few years older than me. Yet, I married a man several years younger than me. At the time, it was so that he could keep up with me, but now I'm too old to play. Ha! Ha! When I came to the Banbury Bash, I was really surprised to talk to one of my old boyfriends there and discovered that he was 10yrs older than me when we were together in Kitwe all those years ago. I wonder if we both lied about our age then. Ha! Ha! (You know who you are...)
Thanks for the clarification, Chris.
Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Saturday, July 19, 2003 at 14:31:01 (UTC)
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Hi Linda
Sorry but you were only thirteen! I fear that you fibbed so much to boys in those early days that it has become a blur.
After much discussion with Ada we think the fire was probably in October '66, our Daughter was born in Kitwe in mid February '67 and we left Zambia in April'67. I had already resigned from the Police and was working my 6 months notice, I was involved in some of the investigation into the aftermath of the fire. All those of you that said 1966, pat your selves on the back your alcohol consumption over the years was obviously less than mine.
Arthur
hang onto the slides and I will arrange to collect.
Chris Cantrell [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hastings, East Sussex, United Kingdom
Saturday, July 19, 2003 at 10:23:12 (UTC)
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Ron,
I have Judy Drews No for you. email me and I will let you have it.
Bill
Billy Laing [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stevenage, United Kingdom
Saturday, July 19, 2003 at 08:34:36 (UTC)
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Hi Wilma
I have no idea where Dudley is and my laptop (which has all my contact detail) is in for a software upgrade. You might try contacting his cousin Vaughan who's e-mail address is on the Muf site (check links on the GNR). If he cant help, I will pass on Ivan's details when I get the laptop back.
Cheers
Owen
Owen Thomas [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Henley on Klip, Gauteng, South Africa
Saturday, July 19, 2003 at 08:18:31 (UTC)
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N O R T H E R N E R S!
Making my stay bearable in southern California is the fact that I am staying with some old friends, fellow political activitists from the Sixties, Charlie and Sam. Charlie has a large oceanographic research vessel moored outside his palatial home in the Los Alamitos harbour area of Long Beach, California. He travels mostly in the Pacific Ocean region researching the pollution of the high seas. It is incredible the horrors he has uncovered about the state of the earth's greatest ocean. Most of this is due to plastic and plastic waste. Charlie is a familiar face on American television and radio---but don't bother with the mainstream media, you might see or hear him only on the Public Broadcasting Service.
But besides the good intellectual company, his garden is a lush and tropical delight. A splendourous reminder of my youth in Zambia. He has fruit-bearing paw paw trees, two kinds of guava, banana trees, a magnificent grenadilla covered walkway over his serpentine natural pool, kiwi fruit vines, prickly pears, one of the most massive avocado pear trees I have ever seen, chili pepper bushes, and some fruits and plants from tropical Latin America and the Pacific Rim basin with which I am not familiar. All the fruit is consumed, and all is nurtured organically. He has large compost heaps in the back which nourish this fantastic tropical garden of delights.
This is all very reminiscent of growing up in Africa.
Hartelijke groeten...
Dave Cooper
Founder of the Great North Road
(On tour in California)
Dave Cooper [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Amsterdam, Nederland
Saturday, July 19, 2003 at 05:18:12 (UTC)
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Growing up in the 60's and 70's, there seemed to be a number of issues that seemed to go on and on forever (Vietnam, Watergate, UDI, Mandela's imprisonment), and they slowly became abstract concepts in me and my classmates young minds. But one by one they became resolved and one magical day in 1990, Mandela was set free!
Happy Birthday Nelson Mandela!
Chandru Krishna [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Rockville, Maryland, United States
Friday, July 18, 2003 at 23:09:03 (UTC)
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There must be somebody out there, or currently in Kitwe, who can verify the exact date of the Shell Depot blast for us, surely? If it was in 1966, that would have made me only 13. That does not seem correct. Come on, you Kitwe people. Do some investigating and give us the correct date.
As a long time member of the GNR, it is interesting to see the recycled topics keep popping up. Just about everything discussed has been discussed at one stage or another, but it is always interesting to hear the different takes on the same thing. Regarding Mrs. Burton, I believe her daughter or another family member has addressed this in the archives. The archives contain a wealth of info, and also you may find someone you know who may not necessarily be posting now.
Heather:
This is your last chance (grin). How much do I owe for the chutney and honey. They were both delicious.
Bugs da Silva:
Where did you go?
Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Friday, July 18, 2003 at 21:39:38 (UTC)
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Sorry again don't know why the message got posted twice.and I found my flop in the second message.( I think) I will wear the DUNCE CAP with pride if this works.
N
Regards
Philip Pain [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Eshowe Kwazulu Natal, South Africa
Friday, July 18, 2003 at 20:15:04 (UTC)
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Wishing Nelson Mandela a very happy birthday. A man of so much humbleness and courage. One who has done so much to reconcile all the races of South Africa. The present two meeting in the States come nowhere near his stature..his honesty...his worldwide popularity or his integrity . Long may this great Madala live!
Ayub Ismail Zumla [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Manchester, United Kingdom
Friday, July 18, 2003 at 20:00:02 (UTC)
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Today is the 85th birthday of Nelson Mandela.
Happy! Happy! Old Chappie and many more!
Seeing how good he has turned out I recommend all politicians be jailed for 27 years starting with..........
Cheers - Doug
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Friday, July 18, 2003 at 19:31:26 (UTC)
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Sorry All the "N" was to be:-
font size="=3"color="maroon"font face="wingdings ms">N
Regards
Philip Pain [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Eshowe Kwazulu Natal, South Africa
Friday, July 18, 2003 at 19:26:35 (UTC)
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More Growing up in Nkana/Kitwe
Uchi Slimes Dam
N
The photo posted of the Uchi Slimes Dam, taken from around Price Charles School, brings back another incident which I would like to share with you.
As I have mentioned before, my sister and her husband lived at 59 Central street, which is about the 4th house up from Prince Charles in the direction of the Kafue. Looking at the photo is how I remember the scene looking from my sister house (I see those funny reeds which grew on top of the slimes dam have really taken over). If you crossed central street, passed under the power lines and moved fifty feet into the bush you were in a world of your own. There were many well worn paths to wander along and one of my favourites was one which led to the stream and ponds, on the north side of the dam, which ......... mentioned.
In the stream there were the biggest tadpoles in the world. Enormous things one could mistake for barble. Now in those days you used to make a spear gun out of a short length of bamboo with an elastic band bound to one end, with that yellow and green blasting wire, the spears were made from the main stalk which carried the leaves of the congo oak (that was the huge trees which carried bunches of pear shaped berries at a certain time of yeaar and was ammo for your flycattie). Into the end of a length of this stalk you would insert a pin, to give the spear a point and then taking stripped blasting wire wind a short length behind the pin to the the spear some weight (these spearguns were great at school to shoot spears inot your friends and enemies backsides, I can still feel the sting).
I was allowed to play in the bush and often when visiting my sister with my parents, would go down to the stream and spend the day spear fishing for tadpoles. I was not allowed to cross the stream and go onto the slimes dam itself. This was strictly forbidden and I was threatened with all kinds of horrible things if I was ever caught there (boys being boys, this was like dangling a carrot in front of a donkey). I don't believe I was disobedient, just adventurous.
On this particular day, while on my way down to the stream, I bumped into some other kids in the bush and it wasn't long before we were across the stream aand climbing up the side of the slimes dam. This was the first time I saw the Grand Canyon, a memory I will never forget. Those of you who have been there will know what I am talking about. The Grand Canyon was formed by a stream which flowed West to East through the centre of the slimes dam and had over the years eroded the middle section out to form a Canyon. A majestic sight to see standing on the top looking down and across.
Well it wasn't long before we had decended to the bottom of the canyon and started to explore and play. Eventually we came to the mouth of the canyon where there was this massive flat open area formed from the washout caused by the stream and rain. This area was one of the reasons we were not allowed into the area. Apparently there was QUCKSAND in the area and kids had lost hteir lives there ( I don't know it this was just a story to keep us kids away). While writing this I keep getting memory flashes of large white sign posts with a skull & crossbones in black with a large warning in red printed underneath. These were placed around the perimeter of the slimes dam.
While exploring this area we came across a section where the very fine slime had settled out onto the top and had started to dry and crack. This area had the texture of fine clay. Well, it didn't take us long to take all our clothes off and by running full speed dive onto your belly and go sliding across this mud flat. This was great fun and we were really having a ball when all of a sudden I looked up across our patch and there was my Mom standing with all my clothes in her one arm and a big stick in the other hand. I remember the other kids moving like lightning to get as far away from my Mom as possible, nevr mind their clothes. I unfortunately had to go to my mom and get my punishment, this started with a wack across my bum with the stick which started me running in the direction of my sisters house and every time I would slow down and ask for my clothes I would get another wack. Eventually we got to the edge of the bush and I thought my Mom would give me back my clothes, but NO! Another wack and this continued right across the open area, across central street (much to my embarrassment), until we got to my sisters house. Imagine this kid covered with white clay looking like a Xhosa youth on his way to his circumcision ceremony, running in front of this white woman, with a stick. One hand covering his privates and the other his backside, to try and ward off the wacks from the stick!
Although I got punished for going onto the slimes dam that day, it didn't stop me from going back many, many times. The only difference was that I was much more careful to make sure no-one saw me and could split on me.
RegardsMore Growing up in Nkana/Kitwe
Uchi Slimes Dam
N
The photo posted of the Uchi Slimes Dam, taken from around Price Charles School, brings back another incident which I would like to share with you.
As I have mentioned before, my sister and her husband lived at 59 Central street, which is about the 4th house up from Prince Charles in the direction of the Kafue. Looking at the photo is how I remember the scene looking from my sister house (I see those funny reeds which grew on top of the slimes dam have really taken over). If you crossed central street, passed under the power lines and moved fifty feet into the bush you were in a world of your own. There were many well worn paths to wander along and one of my favourites was one which led to the stream and ponds, on the north side of the dam, which ......... mentioned.
In the stream there were the biggest tadpoles in the world. Enormous things one could mistake for barble. Now in those days you used to make a spear gun out of a short length of bamboo with an elastic band bound to one end, with that yellow and green blasting wire, the spears were made from the main stalk which carried the leaves of the congo oak (that was the huge trees which carried bunches of pear shaped berries at a certain time of yeaar and was ammo for your flycattie). Into the end of a length of this stalk you would insert a pin, to give the spear a point and then taking stripped blasting wire wind a short length behind the pin to the the spear some weight (these spearguns were great at school to shoot spears inot your friends and enemies backsides, I can still feel the sting).
I was allowed to play in the bush and often when visiting my sister with my parents, would go down to the stream and spend the day spear fishing for tadpoles. I was not allowed to cross the stream and go onto the slimes dam itself. This was strictly forbidden and I was threatened with all kinds of horrible things if I was ever caught there (boys being boys, this was like dangling a carrot in front of a donkey). I don't believe I was disobedient, just adventurous.
On this particular day, while on my way down to the stream, I bumped into some other kids in the bush and it wasn't long before we were across the stream aand climbing up the side of the slimes dam. This was the first time I saw the Grand Canyon, a memory I will never forget. Those of you who have been there will know what I am talking about. The Grand Canyon was formed by a stream which flowed West to East through the centre of the slimes dam and had over the years eroded the middle section out to form a Canyon. A majestic sight to see standing on the top looking down and across.
Well it wasn't long before we had decended to the bottom of the canyon and started to explore and play. Eventually we came to the mouth of the canyon where there was this massive flat open area formed from the washout caused by the stream and rain. This area was one of the reasons we were not allowed into the area. Apparently there was QUCKSAND in the area and kids had lost hteir lives there ( I don't know it this was just a story to keep us kids away). While writing this I keep getting memory flashes of large white sign posts with a skull & crossbones in black with a large warning in red printed underneath. These were placed around the perimeter of the slimes dam.
While exploring this area we came across a section where the very fine slime had settled out onto the top and had started to dry and crack. This area had the texture of fine clay. Well, it didn't take us long to take all our clothes off and by running full speed dive onto your belly and go sliding across this mud flat. This was great fun and we were really having a ball when all of a sudden I looked up across our patch and there was my Mom standing with all my clothes in her one arm and a big stick in the other hand. I remember the other kids moving like lightning to get as far away from my Mom as possible, nevr mind their clothes. I unfortunately had to go to my mom and get my punishment, this started with a wack across my bum with the stick which started me running in the direction of my sisters house and every time I would slow down and ask for my clothes I would get another wack. Eventually we got to the edge of the bush and I thought my Mom would give me back my clothes, but NO! Another wack and this continued right across the open area, across central street (much to my embarrassment), until we got to my sisters house. Imagine this kid covered with white clay looking like a Xhosa youth on his way to his circumcision ceremony, running in front of this white woman, with a stick. One hand covering his privates and the other his backside, to try and ward off the wacks from the stick!
Although I got punished for going onto the slimes dam that day, it didn't stop me from going back many, many times. The only difference was that I was much more careful to make sure no-one saw me and could split on me.
Regards
Philip Pain [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Eshowe Kwazulu Natal, South Africa
Friday, July 18, 2003 at 19:04:56 (UTC)
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Ray, Ron
I agree that a major event is a great way to put a rough time/date to other events. I left Zambia at the beginning of April 1967 and the Shell fire had already occurred. I seem to recall seeing the pall of smoke from Bancroft and don't recall any clouds around. From that I would opt for September/October 1966 as a likely date.
The petrol restrictions were certainly draconian and I believe that we were only allowed 10 gallons per month. I had power line and street light inspection duties which required an additional allowance of 8 gallons a month. Knowing that I would need a great deal of petrol to finalise my stay in Zambia, I saved every available drop. Many a petrol attendant got fat tips for 'accidentally' allowing the petrol pump to run on way past the allowable amount. I owned a Rover 2000 and this magnificent vehicle had a boot that would comfortably contain a 44 gallon drum. I was unable to get my hands on Jerry cans but had a contact in the assay department who let me have 25 litre glass carboys in which acids had been kept. I became quite adept at siphoning petrol from my tank into these and then carrying them up the stairs to my flat and later dragging them down again as my tank neared empty. I ended up with four full carboys in my bathroom and a splitting headache from the siphoning activities. Good job no body found out or that the whole thing didn't ignite. Knowing that my mail was being 'inspected' I hit on a code to try to quiet the fears of my Parents who had left Zambia and retired to Cape Town and who were most concerned that I had no petrol. I wrote to my folk and informed them that they should not worry as I had 100 litres of 'orange juice'. I found out later that they honestly believed that I had become a health fanatic and was drinking nothing but orange juice. We had a good laugh when the truth came out! I used every drop of that petrol visiting my friends in the neighbouring towns prior to leaving. I even had to travel to Ndola specially to finalise my income tax before I was allowed permission to leave.
On the subject of Mrs. Burton (I think that was her name) I recall that the poor lady was attacked by 'brave' terrorist scum bags and that she burnt to death in her car on the road between Nkana and Ndola. It had nothing to do with the Shell blaze and happened way before Independance. Very sad. There were the good times and the bad ones. On balance the good times are the ones we cherish and which made NR/Zambia such a magical place.
Cheers
David Gray [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
South Africa
Friday, July 18, 2003 at 16:25:30 (UTC)
|
Just wanted to say hi to all.
Hi
John Chundu [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Kitwe, Copperbelt, Zambia
Friday, July 18, 2003 at 15:51:00 (UTC)
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G’day all,
Now that we seem to have managed to put dates to the two fiery events, it is strange to ponder how our minds deal with the chronology of distant events isn’t it? Mind you, as both things happened well over 30 years ago, it’s not surprising that we’re a touch hazy about some of the dates. And in my case that’s not been helped by liberal quantities of good Aussie merlot during the intervening years. But we do need some sort of datum point, a major event in our lives such as a wedding or a child’s birth for example, or as in Betty’s case a family relocation, in order for us to pinpoint certain happenings in time.
Marilyn
Thanks for giving me those contact details. I’ll try and get round to calling you over the next few days – to introduce myself as it were! I see from recent posts that you’re considering a get-together in September possibly and would love to attend if I’m allowed. I really look forward to meeting you and other ex-Zambians. And of course we won’t indulge in too many “when-we’s”, just a few pleasant reminiscences.
Bob
You really should be ashamed of yourself – and on this site too! The road from Dar es Salaam to Zambia is the Great North Road (at least that section of it from Iringa to Kapiri Mposhi) and it was aptly named the Hell Run during the years when it was Zambia’s only petrol supply route. I can vouch for the accuracy of the name as I drove the length of it in both 1970 and 1971. The Great East Road runs from Lusaka to Malawi via Chipata (Fort Jameson). Sorry!
Ron
You mention the death of a Mrs Burton in relation to riots in Kitwe, but I really feel you are mistaken. A Mrs Burton was killed in Perth in the early to mid eighties in her family’s VW car as a result of a road accident caused by a drunken driver. It happened in Maylands, a Perth suburb, on either Christmas or New Year’s eve and because the husband was left with two small children to raise without their mother after such a traumatic event, much public sympathy was aroused. The surviving husband did manage to put aside his grief shortly afterwards and set up a charity for his children bearing his poor wife’s name and into which the benevolent public put considerable sums of money. Unfortunately he was subsequently charged with fraudulent conversion of said funds I believe! There really is nothing so queer as folk, is there? Perhaps another of the Perth residents can verify this account - I truly am not making it up!
Finally, I would like to compliment those dedicated few who are this site’s administrators. You deserve a medal. I thoroughly enjoy browsing the message board from time to time and the site’s archives are a treasure trove. Well done. It’s wonderful to have a site dedicated to a country and its people which gave me, without doubt, the best years of my life.
Ray Wright [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, WA, Australia
Friday, July 18, 2003 at 12:20:12 (UTC)
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To my Sarky Kitwe Bum
You are my favourite
Love from your Tarty Kitwe Bun
PS: Don't tell my Nasty Navel Hun
Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Friday, July 18, 2003 at 12:18:10 (UTC)
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Fiona Robertson
Happy Birthday
Ted Mills
Below are two photographs which I have on my computer (neither of which are the best unfortunately!)
The first one is the bridge over the Kafue, south of Lusaka. This bridge was completed in 1993.
The next one is the new bridge at Chirundu which I took about 18 months ago whilst it was still under construction. It was opened for traffic about three months ago.
The old bridge was not in poor shape, as it has been well maintained over the years. However, the size of trucks have grown so much since it was built, that it could only carry one truck at a time and with current traffic volumes (120 a day in each direction in 1998 and growing by around 8 percent per annum), it was essential to build a bridge which could carry two way traffic.
When I am down in that area next, I'll take some more photos.
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Friday, July 18, 2003 at 11:57:52 (UTC)
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Ron
Hey Ron you are becoming an old fossil - Judy Drew I think is the person you're looking for and not Judy Jew.
You are correct about Mrs Burton, and we are honoured to have one of her daughters as a member here.
Kris,
I am disappointed in your response.
Back to work, catch up with you all over the weekend
Arthur
Arthur Steevens [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stockport, United Kingdom
Friday, July 18, 2003 at 11:52:14 (UTC)
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Arthur -
Now that would be telling!
Kris
Kristien E. Massie (née Mostert, formerly Van Woenssel) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
United Kingdom
Friday, July 18, 2003 at 10:03:35 (UTC)
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Barrie,
The beautiful blue Jacaranda it is then - they fade to a purple pink colour and cover the ground with their fallen petals. We have dedicated one of them to Veronica's mother who was born in Durban, and an African tulip tree [Spathodea] is dedicated to her father - as the flowers are like a Dutchman's pipe, and Bob Read always smoked a pipe.
Barrie wrote:
RON/VERONICA,
The Jacaranda please Ron, Mulobezi village was surrounded by them, and I seem to remember they were very beautiful when they were in blossom, if I remember correctly they were a mauve /pinkish colour, they certainly brightened the place up, Many thanks once again, it means much to me, and mere words are quite meaningless when trying to explain the feelings your very kind act has engendered in me.
Arthur,
I have come across several fossils here on the I-O-W
one of them I met on an ancient Briton burial site up on Mottiscombe Down even answered to the name of Arthur
but it could not have been OUR Arthur as he wasn't cradling a beer in his hand.
I could never figure out why they call them Downs when they are all Up - until I got to the top and had to come Down again.
Can't find Drudy Jew in the phone book - so she must have fallen off the edge of the world and gone to live in France where they all speak Froglish.
Craig
Thanks for the lowdown on Spam-Attack - my 30 free trial is up in 2 days time - they have been spamming me daily with messages to sign up and pay for there illegal activities. I did get both your message and that from Sue.
On the subject of people killed in their cars in riots on the Copperbelt - wasn't there a woman who was burnt in her VW by rioters ? I seem to remember the name Burton in connection with that case. Does anyone remember that ?
We have copies of the Police photos of the plane crash in which Dag Hammerskold was killed. His was the only body that was not badly burned by melting aluminium and there is an Ace of Spades in his collar in one picture. There have been persistent conspiracy theories over that event invloving the CIA & the Brit intelligence agency.
A bit like the Bush & Blair conspiracy over Weapons of Maths destruction - a bit of a Protractor affair.
Best wishes, Ron [an old fossil on the I-O-W]
Ron Clibborn-Dyer [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hong Kong SAR, China
Friday, July 18, 2003 at 09:23:09 (UTC)
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Hi Everyone
I know Betty is right about the year of the Kitwe Depot Fire. My mistake by stating 1967, I should have said '66 -I was pregnant at the time and my son was born in January '67. And I also think it was October.
With the mention of explosions, and here my memory does get hazy, I can remember being called out to an explosion that occurred on a train where there were some carriages with passengers attached to the wagons containing explosives. Was this Kafironda? We were in the Red Cross then and altho there were unfortunately no lives to save, we were asked to help pick up human body remains. I remember the crater as being absolutely huge.
Kris
Kristien E. Massie (née Mostert, formerly Van Woenssel) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
United Kingdom
Friday, July 18, 2003 at 09:18:33 (UTC)
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Good Morning all you gnr folk.
How are you all this fine summer (that is here in Holland) morning.
I did work for Kafironda for a year. I left them at the end of 70 as I was getting married and moved to Kalulushi.
The person that would be able to give you all the exact date of the Kafironda Explosion would be Cathe Ferris's mum she was the Managing Directors Secretary, or even her sister Roseanne as she worked at the Factory.
Most of the expat staff that worked there were from ICI in Scotland. Needless to say my mum and dad and my aunt Wilma and her husband were friends with the whole clan from Kafironda. There was one of their friends killed in that explosion. I remember going to his funeral.
On a funnier note about the new year before I got married we had been to my aunt Wilma's for New Years lunch, and my uncle had his own home made whiskey.
I told my then future husband to not touch this stuff as it would finish him for the day. He did have a few glasses, and later in the afternoon we were to go to the I think his name was Wisheart the then Managing Director of Kafironda but now sure anymore for a party. Needless to say the whiskey was also flowing there and Peter who did not drink spirits joined these hardy scotsmen consuming a number glasses on top of the other stuff. Needless to say he started to feel dizzy and needed to go outside. Once outside in the fresh air he he was sick, but off course not just anywhere, no in the just painted pool of my boss, wet paint and all. I do not know if any of you have every seen Billy Connily his story about diced carrots and tomato skin well this was in the pool.
I tried to get him out of there asap, got him in the car and he was passed out in the passenger side. I could not get my car out as it was parked between the Merk of my Boss and a BMW from his friend,and Mr. Wisheart offered to do this for me. My darling soon to be husband came to and threw his arm around this man's neck and started hugging him at the same time saying how sorry he was.
Lucky for me my boss had a good sense of humor.
Well folks that is it for now. I must do some work
By the way Owen. Where is Dudly Sammons these days he used to be in my class.
Bye for now.
Love Wilma
Wilma Wall (née Henry) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Almelo, Netherlands
Friday, July 18, 2003 at 07:36:22 (UTC)
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RE: The Great Shell Petrol Dump Inferno and subsequent riot:
I have conferred with my wife Karen on this matter, and we both think the incident occurred in the first two weeks of January 1968.
It was after Christmas, and Karen was admitted to Kitwe Central (Llewellyn) hospital after the incident, but two weeks before our daughter Linda was born there on 5th February 1968, very close to the site of the dump.
It was a dicey time, petrol was at a premium, brought into the country in 44 gal drums under great difficulty in lorries along the Great East Road link to Dar-es-Salaam, especially along the muddy bogholes in the Wet season, as it was at that time. Thus the loss of all that petrol in flames was a huge blow to all residents of Zambia, black or white, in addition to the fire damage.
Indeed it was very difficult to obtain sufficient petrol to bring Karen over from Chingola where we lived. It was 2 weeks after Linda's birth before I could get some more coupons to pick them up from the hospital.
Robert Allan [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Melbourne, Australia
Friday, July 18, 2003 at 04:50:22 (UTC)
|
Alix
Yes, John and I did have a brief chat about a reunion. Thanks for reminding me. I must have scared him off as I haven't heard from him again.
I'm a bit tied up in October with visitors (in the office) and the rugby of course, so let's make a date to get together at home before then. Sue Forde is excused, unless she can swim real fast! John, if you read this please contact me, and you too, please Alix.
Philip, are you thinking about a poster?
Marilyn
Marilyn Noall (née Shooter) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Western Australia, Australia
Friday, July 18, 2003 at 04:43:24 (UTC)
|
Craig
It seems Arthur and I share a similar trait. May he rest in his laurels, be they thorny.
Cheers
Owen
Owen Thomas [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Henley on Klip, Gauteng, South Africa
Friday, July 18, 2003 at 04:42:49 (UTC)
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Hi all,
The photo of the train explosion at the Mindola crossing must have happened around 1949-1950. I put the date around this time because my Mom often spoke of my sister Lena and her husband Joe wanting to take a walk from our house in 4th. Ave. to the accident site. I dont remember this but apparently I wanted to go with. This my brother inlaw agreed to, on one condition that I walk on my own two feet and if I got tired I would be left behind as no one would carry me (I must have been very young as I mentioned in my first story of growing up that my first recollectons started on my 4th birthday) Why my Mom used to refer to this incident was because I made the walk there and back on my own two feet. (A distance of several miles)
In the box of photos my Mom had there were many pictures of the train, the loco was still there laying on it's side.
I believe there was a similar accident some time later but I think I had already left Northern Rhodesia. (???)
Cheers for now
Philip Pain [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Eshowe Kwazulu Natal, South Africa
Friday, July 18, 2003 at 04:40:57 (UTC)
|
Arthur:
Sorry, I don't know the class of loco at Vic Falls station. It has 204 on the front, but I think that's just the local series no. We need a Rhodesian Railways buff to put us right. Anyone out there can help? I attach the following abstract of what looks like a good read on the subject from the Books of Rhodesia series (I bought the "Crime Scientist" one at Mukuvisi Woodlands for a song, Zim$30, in Apr 2000.
Steam Locomotives of Rhodesia Railways: The Story of Steam 1892-1979
by Eward D. Hamer
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Books of Zimbabwe, 1981
195 x 215 mm, xxiv, 194 pp., Colour frontispiece, 126 b & w photographic illus., 28 diagrams, 58 tables, l map, Foreword by Sir Roy Welensky, 5 Appendices, Bibliography.
ISBN (Std) 0 86920 221 9
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Zimbabwe is one of the dwindling number of countries around the world where steam locomotives are still in operation. Despite the challenges of the diesels over more than twenty-five years, and now of electrification, the 'steamers' have more than held their own and may be expected to be around for many years yet.
Edward Hamer, a draughtsman with Rhodesia Railways during the 1970s and a steam 'buff, has produced what could be the definitive work on all types of steam locos, from Jack Tar to the giant 225-ton 20A Class Beyer-Garratts, that have served the system which extended from the Mozambique and South African borders through to the border of the former Belgian Congo. He has worked with and personally knows all the types still in service, and research into Rhodesia Railways (now National Railways of Zimbabwe) records provided the early historical material.
For reading pleasure the technical data has been separated from the narrative and is presented in tabular form. His historic collection of black and white illustrations is excellent and is supplemented by a complete range of locomotive diagrams.
"The author. . . has done enormous research into the purchase, specifications and subsequent fate of almost all steam locomotives on the system over the years.
"There are facts and technical details which only the experts will appreciate."
THE HERALD
"The narrative is very readable and provides an excellent introduction to the many and varied tables, which give the reader a/most every piece of information he might need."
NATIONAL RAIL WAYS OF ZIMBABWE MAGAZINE
Cheers
Bob Allan
Melbourne
Robert Allan [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Melbourne, Australia
Friday, July 18, 2003 at 04:34:24 (UTC)
|
Sue,
Actually, I didn't know you had sent a message to Ron. I don't monitor the messages sent through the Web-based contact system. I have enough of my own e-mail to read without trying to read other people's e-mail!
I received your book this week. Thanks very much and thanks for signing it.
I will answer your other question via e-mail.
Owen,
The old Names Directory (as well as the archived message boards prior to April 2002) is off-line for the foreseeable future. The old system I used to protect it behind a log-in ID and password does not work on the new server, and I do not have time at the moment to deal with it.
The current Names Directory is not browsable like it was before I "improved" it. Again, this is something I will address when I have the time, but I don't have the time at the moment.
I am glad that you apologised to Arthur so quickly, as I was ready to come down on you like a tonne of bricks. Arthur is not known as "Sarky" Arthur for nothing. Anyone who has been here as long as you have should know two things: 1) That anything Arthur posts in the manner he addressed you is definitely meant to be read in a humorous way; 2) Arthur does a hell of a lot of work on this Web site.
Without Arthur this Web site would be nothing, and I am not exaggerating one iota. Yes, I host the site and I am responsible (for the most part) for how it looks and works (or doesn't work in some cases), but Arthur is responsible for posting the pictures and associated stories that keep people coming back for more every day. If anybody thinks for a moment that there is minimal work involved in this because Arthur apparently just posts stuff that other people send him, give your head a shake. Arthur is doing this job because it overwhelmed me a couple of years ago, and nothing was getting posted on the site. He has to take what is sent to him, work with the images so that they are suitable for posting on the Web (they hardly ever arrive in a format suitable for posting on the Web), correspond with the senders to get his questions answered or the pictures resent (because many people don't read instructions), and so on. This is very time-consuming and, as with my late wife, Arthur's wife has probably also wondered occasionally if he loves the computer more than her.
Free speech, ad nauseam, is fine, but I will also exercise my right to free speech to defend a good friend.
Enough said. As I said, I appreciate your apology, but every once in a while I feel the need to remind people not to take Arthur for granted.
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Friday, July 18, 2003 at 01:01:13 (UTC)
|
G'day Arthur - yes, you are right on two counts! Firstly I MUST apologise to Hilry for mis-spelling her name as Hilary and secondly I referred to the Kafironda Explosion as 'the other'. Sooooooooo sorry!
And thanks for all the interesting photos which started all this...
By the way... did anyone know Simon Callow (the actor) in Zambia? Apparently he lived there for 3 years as a teenager, so I now believe. (I have just been watching 'Loose Lips' a chat program on here as they interviewed him). He appeared in "Four Weddings and A Funeral" with Hugh Grant and was the character who died in the film. It was his lover who read a fantastic poem at his funeral which guaranteed the tears would flow. Just a bit of trivia....
Sue Forde [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Midleton, Co. Cork, Ireland
Thursday, July 17, 2003 at 23:47:09 (UTC)
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Hey Arthur
Apology and explanation accepted.
Cheers mate, it's going to be a long night.
Owen
Owen Thomas [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Henley on Klip, Gauteng, South Africa
Thursday, July 17, 2003 at 23:30:56 (UTC)
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Hey Owen
Cool down man it was meant in jest.
If this "Kitwe bum" was at war with the rest of the Copperbelt I certainly wouldn't have spend weeks putting together the two maps of Muf and also all the other Copperbelt towns on this site, with the exception of Kitwe.
If you're having a long night go and take a look at the Luanshya website and you'll see I spent some time helping out those guys too.
At this rate you're going to be one of the 30, you're welcome to post as often as you wish, I wasn't the one who started the counting.
Kabish to you.
Arthur
Arthur Steevens [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stockport, United Kingdom
Thursday, July 17, 2003 at 23:15:30 (UTC)
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Owen Thomas
The Kafironda explosions were in 1971. It was in my gap year between A-Levels, and going off to (attempt!) university. I was looking after my parents' house (in Mufulira) while they were on leave. Several of us, including Ian Kyle, Tony Duke, and I think Dudley Sammons, had had a heavy night the night before and crashed out at my place. About 9.30 am we were all woken by several explosions (three I think). They sounded far away and not from the mine, but we could feel the rumble so knew that they were powerful. Shortly afterwards, there was the sound of many sirens as emergency vehicles went past, going towards Kitwe. We assumed that there had been a Rhodesian bombing raid, until we found out the real story later in the morning.
As far as I remember, Wilma Wall (née Henry) ex-Mufulira was employed at Kafironda at the time, and would probably know the date more exactly. A very tragic incident.
Paudie Coughlan [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Midleton Co Cork, Ireland
Thursday, July 17, 2003 at 23:10:50 (UTC)
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RON/VERONICA,
The Jacaranda please Ron, Mulobezi village was surrounded by them, and I seem to remember they were very beautiful when they were in blossom, if I remember correctly they were a mauve /pinkish colour, they certainly brightened the place up, Many thanks once again, it means much to me, and mere words are quite meaningless when trying to explain the feelings your very kind act has engendered in me.
PHILIP PAIN, Your story about the roman candle in a confined space made me laugh out loud, I have three sons, 31, 27, 15, and they are all pyromaniacs. We have a family tradition that on New Years Eve at the stroke of midnight we set off the largest, loudest rocket that we can afford, usually betwwen £15 and £20. Now these things get to a height of about quarter of a mile before they detonate and fill the sky with stars. The stick on them is about three feet six inches in length by 3/4 by 1/2 inch section. One day a couple of years ago I went out to the back of the house, when I was suddenly confronted by three hysterically giggling idiots, who could not speak to me for laughing, I had to join in although I didnt know why. Eventually when they had calmed down, we managed to find out the cause of their hysteria. The youngest confessed all, The oldest (the sensible one ) had taken them to the local golf course and had launched one of these rockets horizontally down one of the fairways, all they could remember were loud screams and yells as golfers, caddies, golf carts and golf clubs, went diving into the adjacent hedges. Boys will be boys eh!
Cheers barribee.
Barrie Braidford [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Newcastle upon Tyne, England
Thursday, July 17, 2003 at 22:45:24 (UTC)
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Craig
I have been off for a while and things have changed. Many improvements are noticable. However I have picked up a problem. I used to be able to open the names list and scroll through it. I now see different links and am unable to open the old names list. Am I doing something wrong?
Cheers
Owen
Owen Thomas [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Henley on Klip, Gauteng, South Africa
Thursday, July 17, 2003 at 22:35:57 (UTC)
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Arthur Steevens
If you bothered to read my postings, you will probably have seen that I will be up all night. I am amusing myself by surfing the GNR. I have nothing to hide and will make as many posts as I want. You, on the other hand, only have to read as many as you want. It's the way the world works. Freedom of speech, freedom of expression etc.etc. ad infinitum.
From your last comment about the wasteland, it is obvious you are an ex Kitwe bum. No wonder there was a continual war between the towns. For your benefit, I flew over the railway yards at Kafironda, where the explosion had taken place. Kabish.
Cheers mate, don't get a hernia.
Owen Thomas [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Henley on Klip, Gauteng, South Africa
Thursday, July 17, 2003 at 22:32:26 (UTC)
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Sue
My turn
I didn't see Hilary post anything about "the other".
Are you on the right message board?
Arthur
Arthur Steevens [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stockport, United Kingdom
Thursday, July 17, 2003 at 22:25:37 (UTC)
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Oh and sorry - Owen, I was talking about the Shell Fire... Hilary is talking about the other.
Sue Forde [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Midleton, Co. Cork, Ireland
Thursday, July 17, 2003 at 22:03:39 (UTC)
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Northerners!
The Copperbelt seems to have been prone to quite a few explosive situations in it's time.
Here's a shot June Bohl sent to me some time ago for the board (That reminds me - I've not seen you posting for quite a while June)
I'm not sure of the year, many of you will know for sure, I think June said sometime in the late 50's or early 60's, a truck carrying explosives was hit by a train somewhere around the Mindola area when the truck got stuck on a crossing. Apparently the truck was vaporised and so was the loco pulling the train, as you can see in the photo. I'm not sure how many unfortunate people lost their lives.
Good postings everyone on the Shell fire ! Something I knew nothing about until now. And a special thanks to the new posters for making the effort, keep it up and send in any photos you think we'd all like to see.
Chris Cantrell
I am not afraid. And I have moved. And I don't live there anymore. And tell Ada I love her.
Bob Allen
Stunning pic of the locomotive at Vic Falls. Thank you. One for the GNR archive. Do you know what type of loco it is?
Railways seem to have lost everything since the steam engines bit the dust over here, some still survive though - about five years ago I was driving along the North Wales coastal expressway near Conway, the sun was setting in the west and the tide was in with a flat calm sea like molten gold. The rail line to Holyhead runs parallel with the expressway and I noticed loads of cars and people parked up in the laybys. I managed to stop and squeeze in. Five minutes or so later I discovered why, up the line came a ghost from the past, the Flying Scotsman on a commemorative journey, what a beautiful proud locomotive, and a sight, sound and smell that took me right back to my younger days. A moment in time I will never forget. Seeing I also had a good result earlier, with plenty of fish in the boot - "Oh what a perfect day".
Ron
Be careful you don't trip up over an old fossil in the IOW - the place is renowned for them.
Lynne Hopkinson
Ahem.
Kitwe swimming pool? Report to the headmasters office with 500 lines of "Rhokana Swimming pool". You may have been forgiven with Nkana Swimming pool and just gotten away with it, but you should know better. Did you go to Knapp? Don't tell me I can guess. I'm just glad Dave isn't around to have seen that one. (He's exceptionally quiet, so must really be enjoying the USA)
Kris
"I was seven or eight months pregnant at the time. Big lesson learnt that day - not to let curiosity lead you astray!"
Please explain.
Owen Thomas
You made two postings within 12 minutes just now - be careful, you know some people check how many you make?
I also think your plane was a bit off course, if you flew over a wasteland then it must have been Chingola or Muf below.
Marilyn babe,
Thanks for the telephone numbers - now I'm getting somewhere. What's the best time to phone?
Now this Perth Python do, arrange a plan, fix a date and Philip Pain will do a brilliant and colourful posting in rich colours, just like you'd find in any expensive roman candle - and also with fancy sissy fonts, his HTML is good enough now. Let me know when I am to set him on his mission and we'll make sure all the Northerners in Perth are there. When I was last in Perth, 1985, somebody referred to the place as "little Rhodesia" there were that many ex-pats in the area. Send me an air-ticket and I'll come and join your party!
Scarscalp,
Pray for lots of rain, then salmon will run and we'll have some fun.
Send me your phone number by e-mail and we'll make a plan, South Lake District has some good fishing if the water is right, not too far for either of us to travel, a few good pubs there too in case we need a break.
Looking forward to a perfect day.
Arthur
Arthur Steevens [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stockport, United Kingdom
Thursday, July 17, 2003 at 22:03:01 (UTC)
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Hi Craig
Who's on the ball then? Wow - thanks for being so vigilant and letting me know about my message to Ron. Thank you - you clever, clever man! How are you these days?
Hi Ron Clibborn-Dyer
Hi there - I waited and waited for you to post something because I wanted to send you a message. As Craig says - you probably won't get it, so I will ask here. Please email (sfforde@yahoo.com.au) your snail mail address as I need to send something off to you and didn't have the contact email.
Sue Forde [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Midleton, Co. Cork, Ireland
Thursday, July 17, 2003 at 22:01:23 (UTC)
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Chris Cantrell,
Yes, as far as I know only one person was killed in those riots. I was quite young then, but they were a South African family and they had two small sons. They were friends of my parents. The Mum was in the back of the car cradling her children from the stoning. One large rock hit and killed her and her husband didn't even realise she had been hurt until he got away from the danger. I also cannot remember their names, just that the lady who was killed was really nice and very beautiful. The Zambian govt. paid all the funeral arrangements, but it was a sad time in our house.
Jill
Jill Aplin [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
South Africa
Thursday, July 17, 2003 at 20:32:21 (UTC)
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I am doing my neighbourhood watch thing. I do a 12 hour shift once a month as controller and look after vehicles and crews. There was a report of an incident earlier of a drunk driver who nearly forced a car off the road and almost hit a pedestrian. He was apprehended. Just had feedback to say he was a police officer and was also found in posession of 9 false drivers licences which were for sale.
Whatever caused the "previously opressed" to be so corrupt?
Because the courts are so inefficient and backlogged, he will probably get off. Sick isn't it.
Cheers
Owen
Owen Thomas [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Henley on Klip, Gauteng, South Africa
Thursday, July 17, 2003 at 20:31:42 (UTC)
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Hey Sue
Married life is really turning things upside down. A pleasant sort of chaos I dare say.
Are you going to give us the date of the Shell fire or the Kafironda explosion?
Cheers,
Owen
Owen Thomas [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Henley on Klip, Gauteng, South Africa
Thursday, July 17, 2003 at 20:20:37 (UTC)
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Hi,
Yes, the Kafironda explosion was in the 70's, though I can't remember when. I was in Kaunda Square, just coming out of Michael's, I think. We felt the vibration there too, and it was strong enough to set off the car alarms - and of course there was the bang!.
Working as a geologist on the Mine, I realised it was an explosion, and my first thought was the Mine, but I think we then saw the smoke plume rising over the buildings on the other side of the square. Blasts at Mindola Open Pit were never quite that spectacular!
I know it was a weekday, as I was not really supposed to be there shopping!!!! I think your recollections of the cause are right, though there was a lot of talk of sabotage.
Hilry Wilson (née Cartwright, formerly Wright) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Ayr, Scotland, United Kingdom
Thursday, July 17, 2003 at 19:58:46 (UTC)
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Ron,
Unfortunately Judy Drew has disappeared from the GNR radar. I have tried to contact her personally several times with no luck. Hopefully someone else will be able to help you.
However, I have some very important information for you. I know that you have had an ongoing battle with spam, and I see that you have started using a service called SpamArrest. Unfortunately, SpamArrest are spammers themselves, as you can read at static.samspade.org/spamarrest.html. I tried to send you an e-mail about this yesterday, but it didn't get through because I will not validate myself with them because then I open myself up to receiving their spam.
Additionally, messages sent to you through the Names Directory may not get through. Currently any e-mail to or from SpamArrest is not blocked from leaving or reaching the GNR's mail server, but it was blocked before the move to a new server in May and will be blocked again once I set up the new spam filters. SpamArrest domains and IP addresses are also on many of the widely-used blacklists operating on the Internet. What this means is that someone may send you an e-mail message, but they will never receive the request to validate themselves -- therefore you never receive their message, and they are left wondering why.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Thursday, July 17, 2003 at 19:45:01 (UTC)
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Hello to all GNR-ers...
Hi Marilyn
With regard to a meeting at Rosie O'Grady's - we would come but are still in Ireland - and yes, still on honeymoon - but it's also a really long swim!
However, we do hope to be back in Oz in the not-too-distant future, so will just keep note on the board of any Perth reunion plans.
G'day Owen and everyone re the Shell Depot Fire.
I haven't got my old passport here in Ireland, it's packed in a box in Oz... otherwise I could tell you the exact date! Sorry - I am falling down on the job here! Will try to do better in the future.
Sue Forde [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Midleton, Co. Cork, Ireland
Thursday, July 17, 2003 at 19:33:16 (UTC)
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Hi Philip
You say Bobby Gordon the snake man of Empangeni is a pal of yours. Small world! I know Bobby & Merle quite well. He is the cousin of my late friend John Glen who was born in Mufulira.
Did you know John and his family at all? Tiger is in UK but Cindy and most of his other daughters are still in Empangeni.
I well remember those snakes in glass boxes at the back of Bob's carport. He never had any problem with theives.
Cheers - Doug
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Thursday, July 17, 2003 at 19:02:14 (UTC)
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Does anybody remember the Kafironda explosion.
As I recall, explosive trucks were being shunted and somehow set off the explosion. The boiler from one of the engines was flung just about all the way to the Muf/Kitwe road.
My brother David was on the road that day at the Muf/Kitwe/Chingola junction and felt the explosion there. It was a mighty big bang.
I flew over the site some days later, it was like a wasteland.
This happened early seventies (I think).
Owen Thomas [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Henley on Klip, Gauteng, South Africa
Thursday, July 17, 2003 at 17:40:14 (UTC)
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I have just been catching up with the Board and reading all the comments about the Kitwe Depot fire. I don't want to put a spanner in the works but I believe it was around October 1966. My father died in Lusaka in January 1966 and later that year my mother and I moved to Kitwe for three months before moving back to Bancroft where we originated from. We used to spend every week-end with my aunt in Bancroft and were driving back to Kitwe on the Sunday afternoon when we were stopped and advised to turn around and go back to Bancroft because of the rioting. One woman was killed and sabotage was ruled out. It was very scary getting caught up in such violence even though it was only on the periphery.
I have to agree that the Board has livened up a great deal and although I only post very occasionally I do enjoy reading the postings most days.
Wish I was going to the Livingstone Lark - maybe I will win the Lottery on Saturday and still make it!!
Betty Mahady (née Horn) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
United Kingdom
Thursday, July 17, 2003 at 15:11:38 (UTC)
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Hi Arthur
"SHE" has your address. Be afraid, very afraid!!!!!
Yes those slides are of the Shell Depot fire, a Sunday afternoon in 1967 but I cannot remember the month but it was early in the year as I left Zambia in April . Unfortunately one poor woman died as a result of the subsequent rioting( I cannot remember her name at the moment) she was killed near Mindolo when a large rock was thrown through the windscreen of the family car. The cause of the fire was not established( or should I say accepted by the authorities) but as the fuel was being pumped out of the drums using water pumps driven by two stroke engines you may draw your own conclusions!!
The other slides are of the Central Police Station in the Town at the centre of the Universe, taken at 4 pm on 23rd of October 1964 hence the Flag is still being flown.
Chris Cantrell [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hastings, East Sussex, United Kingdom
Thursday, July 17, 2003 at 12:21:26 (UTC)
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Barrie Braidford,
I have planted some 8 foot specimens of Jacaranda, Flame Tree, and the Africa Tulip Tree in the temple garden in June. Which would you like to dedicate to your Dad ?
Friends of Judy Drew
I am currently on the Isle-of-Wight on a very short visit to the UK - does anybody have Judy Drew's address or phone number in Ryde ? She may be in France of course !
Back in HK in August.
Veronica is holding the fort there and has had her first face off with a python this year. She and the goat kid survived, but the offending python has yet to be caught and relocated.
Best wishes to you all,
Ron [I-O-W] & Veronica [HK]
RON and VERONICA,
Barrie wrote:
I have been away on holiday to Barcelona for a week and have only just caught up with the message board. Thank you very very much for your kind words, AND YES PLEASE PLANT A TREE IN HIS MEMORY. you never know I might make it to Hong Kong one of these days. Please let me know if there is any cost involved. We also loved your poem about the roses.
I also had 81 emails to wade through, most of them rubbish, two of them with viruses attached Norton detected them before I opened them, luckily.
Barrie Braidford
Newcastle upon Tyne, England
Wednesday, June 11, 2003
Ron Clibborn-Dyer [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hong Kong SAR, China
Thursday, July 17, 2003 at 10:20:04 (UTC)
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Marilyn....
I believe John Milton has had a reunion/get together in the planning.....maybe when the weather gets a lot warmer.....I will just have to jolt his memory a bit hey ?
Ali
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Thursday, July 17, 2003 at 10:09:49 (UTC)
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Ray Wright
My cousin was taking her dad to Kitwe Hospital during that riot and I think they had a terrible time getting through. Tsk.
I've been suggesting a reunion in Perth for some time. Arthur refers to it as "The Perth Python Party". No takers though. What about you and I and possibly Alix, an old school friend from Kitwe and anyone else interested, meetingat Rosie O'Grady's in Northbridge one evening? It's a central venue. Or, come to our place one weekend and we can chat there over a wine or two. Hazel Forde, perhaps the honeymoon couple, countless others, spring to mind.
Work no. 9226 3011 or 0407 611 600.
Marilyn
Marilyn Noall (née Shooter) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Western Australia, Australia
Thursday, July 17, 2003 at 09:29:25 (UTC)
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The photos of the Shell Depot fire brought back some memories! I think it may have been 1967, not 1968 but can't be sure.
I was working at the Heinrich's Syndicate (later National Breweries) chibuku brewery on that Sunday, at the end of Aberdeen Rd(?) where the petrol depot was. It also reminds me that there was a match factory on the street corner diagonally opposite to the petrol depot which could have made things really hairy if that had gone up too. Thankfully the fire was restricted to the one site.
The rioting was none too pleasant and in fact went on for quite a few hours later and well into the evening, so that we were unable to leave work until things calmed down a bit.
That same evening I and a few mates went to the Braaivlais Bar at the Edinburgh Hotel (monstrous rump or T-bone steak done to a crisp on the flaming grill - anyone else remember it?) for a meal and there were still loads of rioters around the town centre, and at one point we actually barricaded ourselves inside until they dispersed. I don't recall hearing of any serious injuries in town that evening, but after a good steak and a number of Lion beers we were not feeling too much pain in any case. The folly of the young!
Having only recently looked up the message board, I'm pleasantly surprised at the number of posters now living in Perth,WA. There must be enough of us here for a reasonable reunion without the cost of international air-fares. What about some of you making contact and we'll see what can be done? I even saw a reference a few days ago - can't remember who from - about meeting up with someone at the Herdsman, which is just round the corner from where I live.
Ray Wright [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, WA, Australia
Thursday, July 17, 2003 at 05:04:57 (UTC)
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Bob Allen
Great photos. Those of the Vic Falls station were particularly nostalgic. Vic Falls is just magic.
We visited Melbourne last year - not too shabby either.
Marilyn
Marilyn Noall (née Shooter) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Western Australia, Australia
Thursday, July 17, 2003 at 04:28:32 (UTC)
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Hi All,
Great pictures on th GNR so far this month, they sure bring back a great deal of memories. I remember jumping off the high board at Kitwe Swiming pool so many times, and not being that good at swimming, would give my sister Anne (Harris) a heart attack. The great Shell fire also caught my previous spouse Ivor de Lange and I off guard, as we were coming home from his parents house in Garneton, and were waved back by several cars with smashed windshields. I have many wonderful memories of my life in N.R and one day will make a trip back.
Lynne Hopkinson
Lynne Hopkinson (née Harris, formerly de Lange) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Kaleden, British Columbia, Canada
Wednesday, July 16, 2003 at 21:38:26 (UTC)
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Hi Arthur,
Here are two photos taken after the Kitwe Depot fire.
Blazing drums of fuel were projected high into the air. It was very spectactular.
Tragically the story circulated that it was sabotage and cars were stoned on the Chingola road with one driver being killed.
The report of the Kitwe Fire Chief was that an unshrouded pump had been used to decant fuel from the drums and a spark had caused the fire.
This report was not accepted by the City Council .
Mike Wilson
Heather
Thanks for the great photos through the seasons taken in the Chirindu Escarpment. It's one of my favourite areas, too.
I enclose two shots taken at the end of March 2000 through the half-closed window of the old rattler bus which was taking us from Harare to Lusaka (the successor to CARS rattlers!)
Also a couple of shots of the Livingstone-Vic Falls Express about that time, taken at Vic. Falls station. Don't let it run you over at the Lark.
Cheers all
Bob Allan
Melbourne
Hi Arthur,
All the chat of snakes on the message board brought back a memory from some years ago.
On this particular day I had just survived a crash landing in a Microlite of which I was part owner (another story) and needing somthing to calm the nerves we went round to a mates house in Empangeni. I must had a few too many Castles because I would never have done this if I was sober. My mate Bobby Gordon collected snakes and gave lectures at schools.
Look after yourself
Regards
Philip Pain
To all of you posting - brilliant response, and brilliant photos sent in too.
Must go to work now - be back later when I have more time
Arthur
Arthur Steevens [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stockport, United Kingdom
Wednesday, July 16, 2003 at 19:10:59 (UTC)
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G'day Everyone!
Yes - The photos are indeed from the Fire at Shell BP petrol dump in Kitwe. It happened on a Sunday (can't remember the exact date) in 1968 and I worked in accounts, in the front office with a really nice dutch lady whose name escapes me. Ronald Ruby-Bowman was Manager.
After the fire, my Dad and Mum decided that it was way too dangerous for me to work there and getting way too dangerous for me to zoom around in my red Spitty! They put me on a flight to London the Tuesday following the fire. I still miss my Spitfire!
I did nursing in Harrogate for a while then got home about two years later... terribly homesick!
Sue Forde [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Midleton, Co. Cork, Ireland
Wednesday, July 16, 2003 at 17:39:44 (UTC)
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Hiya Ali
Working hard and a new job - not much free time to browse as much as I used to! Glad to see everyone's still around. Keep well.
Janie Ledeboer (née Dalton) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Attleborough, Norfolk, United Kingdom
Wednesday, July 16, 2003 at 16:34:29 (UTC)
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Looking at the pictures of the Shell fire certainly brought back memories. I was in a block of flats directly across the road when the fire was going. A lot of people were very worried and were leaving the area in a hurry. As I was still young I did not realise the danger we all were in. When the riot started we went inside the flat which was on the top floor and sat in the hallway as stones were being thrown through the windows. Then the police started to use tear gas and our eyes started to sting. Luckily we all survived the event and all had learnt yet another lesson.
I am not one for posting many messages on this great site (something I hope to change) but I am thankful
for the oppertunity to read and relive a fantastic time in my life.
Carl
Carl Paterson [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Mandurah, Western Australia, Australia
Wednesday, July 16, 2003 at 14:08:19 (UTC)
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If the fire referred to in the postings and photos is, indeed, the Shell Depot fire, that was my 15 minutes of fame on TV. Butch Anderson and I were riding around in the industrial sites on his motorcycle that day and ended up as "eye-witnesses" on the news. We were on that road when the explosion happened and I think we hung around for a bit until we realised we were not in a safe situation at all. I think we rode to the studios to tell the story since we were so close to the situation when it happened. Can't exactly remember the details now, except that he and I both told a different story when they asked the questions on TV. It was quite funny, but also a little embarrassing. The question was asked as to how long it took for the cops to arrive. It seems that our recollections of the time frame were off. One of us said the cops took forever to arrive, and the other said they were there in less than five minutes. As was our usual way, we got into this big discussion of "did!", "did not!", forgetting we were on the air and the host was a little taken aback. Ha! Ha! I remember shortly after that, a song began to float around. It was sung to the tune of Yellow Submarine.
There's a fire in Kitwe town
And the smoke was seen for miles around
The cops didn't have a clue
Who the culprits were
But we knew....
Because we set fire to the petrol storage tanks
The petrol storage tanks, the petrol storage tanks..
There were a couple more verses but I can't remember them now. Every time I hear Yellow Submarine on the oldies radio station I listen to, it takes me back to that.
Dunno who made it up (NO it was NOT me). The memory is a funny thing. I can't remember my phone number these days and yet I remember that. I think that was my first experience of a riot and it was really scary. Was anyone seriously hurt? Were the culprits ever found? Can't remember that part of it.
Hope nobody is offended by this posting. It is not done without regard to what happened that day, but more just that I was a little part of it, along with Butch.
Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Wednesday, July 16, 2003 at 12:37:24 (UTC)
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Hey Powell,
Stop inviting people to come to your leaving "doooo" there wont be enough beers for old man Wall and I.
Art,
fancy teaching a northerner how to cast a fly for salmon?
Scarscalp [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Cumbria, United Kingdom
Wednesday, July 16, 2003 at 12:16:36 (UTC)
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Janie.....
Great to see you posting again.....!!!!
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Wednesday, July 16, 2003 at 11:23:04 (UTC)
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All this talk of 'biltong'. My husband, Trevor, born and bred in Wankie, Rhodesia, was practically weaned on the stuff. He misses it dreadfully now that we no longer live in SA so he got a recipe off the Internet and started making his own, built the cabinet, got the lights, the whole thing looks quite professional and voila! His first batch was a bit iffy, obviously he had to get the ingredients right, now his biltong is better than some of the stuff you can buy in SA, this according to friends from SA visiting us, tasting it and then returning. Some reckon he should go into business but he says no, he makes it because he loves it and that's good enough for him!
Janie Ledeboer (née Dalton) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Attleborough, Norfolk, United Kingdom
Wednesday, July 16, 2003 at 09:16:06 (UTC)
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Arthur -
Those photo's of the fire at the Shell Depot - Kitwe perhaps, 1967? If this is confirmed, I was there and quite frightening it was because people started rioting. We had seen the black pall of smoke from our house in Parklands and like idiots went to find out what it was. Fortunately we were the other end of the road from the fire and when the rioting started, were able to make our escape via the word of a gem of a man - an old African standing next to me. Having heard me urging that we should go, he said no, not now, I will tell you when. He went off for a couple of minutes and then was back in a flash saying now go! We got into our car and headed off down the road which led to the industrial area - a brick sailed over the car which missed us by inches!
With me was my husband and 3 year old son and I was seven or eight months pregnant at the time. Big lesson learnt that day - not to let curiosity lead you astray!
Kris
Kristien E. Massie (née Mostert, formerly Van Woenssel) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
United Kingdom
Wednesday, July 16, 2003 at 07:58:39 (UTC)
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Doug...
Red hair......hmmmmm yes well after years of having red hair ....I always wondered why people used to run when seeing me.........oh and is that why my eldest daughter has bottle blonde hair....she was named after the red centre...Alice Springs.....(she takes after her mom)......ces't la vie
Ali
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Wednesday, July 16, 2003 at 04:55:36 (UTC)
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Jilly....et al
After a long search yesterday I came across a video of "Animals are BEAUTIFUL PEOPLE"...I had to buy it, I said to the girls "now here is one of the best movies ever made" "yeah sure Mom ???"...well I left them to it....all of a sudden I heard this cackling of laughter...it got louder and louder.....(ah they have come to the marula berry scene.....(giggles)).....I must say my girls have never laughed so much .....it was a delight.....
which reminds me Artie great sense of humour you have......sure it wasn't you who set the station on fire to get rid of the evidence of Broken hill being the centre of the universe ???....
ohhhh and SNAKES ? .....Love them to bits.....!!!!!
Ali
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Wednesday, July 16, 2003 at 02:52:47 (UTC)
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Northerners !
I wonder what was in the water to make some Northern Rhodesian women so awesome? There must be many more tales you could all tell, we all met them in our time!
Owen Thomas's mother fearless of snakes, most mothers here would run ten miles in the opposite direction!
Meg Rybicki's referred to as Mrs Rabies - glad she wasn't my teach. Meg did you ever find out why she had this nickname? Perhaps one of her pupils on the GNR will enlighten us all. I must add though that nearly all the women teachers I had the misfortune of being taught by would easily qualify for that name too.
One of these more awesome Northern Rhodesian women I have met several times, her long suffering husband Chris handed me these slides for scanning, way back at the Banbury bash. I only recently realised I had still had them to do when my wife insisted I tidy up a cupboard where I keep a lot of computer stuff as she couldn't shut the door.
Now Philip Pain's fire raising skills have nothing on this one, this lady would burn down your complete house for the price of glass of Drambuie, throw you with a stone and bear hug the last breath out of you.
I was given no narrative to go with the photos, so I'll make up my own. No doubt I will be put right very shortly once she sees them.
"Can't quite remember where these were taken, perhaps the Shell Service Station, Lusaka, shortly after they shortchanged me by a whole Kwacha. Don't think it was the Broken Hill one I did in '62, for starters there's not enough petrol for one of this size there, and of course there's a crowd of people in the photo"
"My reception committee racing to the scene"
"Where I met my future hubby. He gave me a set of wrist bracelets and then sorted my new accomodation for the next five years"
I'd better beat a Hasting's retreat.
Arthur Steevens [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stockport, United Kingdom
Wednesday, July 16, 2003 at 00:22:38 (UTC)
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Doug,
Yes September would be a great time to travel up North!
Heather,
Your pictures are wonderful, brought a tear to my eye!
BUGS,
I have left TWO missed calls on your cell. My numbers are: home: 011 318 0241 or cel 082 441 5892. And I am totally game for the wet Tee Shirt Competition - better still, maybe I'll bring along my baby sister, Janey, no?
Anyway, over to you!
Jily Willy, Firecrecker!
Jill Aplin [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
South Africa
Tuesday, July 15, 2003 at 22:02:10 (UTC)
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Snakes, snakes, snakes
Living in Murundu, we saw many snakes. My Mother was reputed as the "Great snake killer." Whenever one was found the 'Boys" would grab a spade, cry "Dona Nyok" give her the spade and run like crazy. They were very scared of snakes.
I guess her reputation started when we were digging our first well. We did not have piped water. Any way the "Boys" dug as far as they were prepared to before they met up with Satan, then it was her turn. She would be lowered down into the well to dig, in a bucket on ropes. One tug from her meant she had had enough and two tugs meant emergency. My Father (who was too heavy to be lowered in a bucket, his excuse) always stayed on the surface and had "Boys" ready at the ropes to pull her up. One day she had just got down when there was the double tug. The "Boys" took off raising the bucket in no time. No Mother inside, just two snakes he had scooped up. She calmly carried on digging.
Another day we came home from school to find a dead gaboon viper in the driveway. We were told it had been found where it was killed, but years later got the true story. It had ben found in the house. She thought that it had come into my Sisters bedroom in the night, seeking warmth, and had been disturbed by her rising in the morning and made its way under her cupboard where it was found by the "Houseboy" who for once decided to sweep under the cupboard. Usual "Dona, nyok" spade and run like crazy.
We used to go next door to the Holtmanns to watch TV. One night we returned to find a dead spitting cobra. It had been caught in the house by my Father who trapped it with a broom whilst my Mother grabbed the nearest weapon, the big spanner we used for changing the gas bottle. She had to get on her hands and knees to despatch it. Lucky for her, she wore glasses (which got covered in venom), or she'd be blind.
One night driving into the Muf Flying Club with my cousin Don, we found a six foot python, sliding sluggishly accross the road. He left me to watch where the snake went whilst he caled Ronnie Potter who collected them. Ronnie arrived with a sack, and cool as cucumbers we picked it up, Don at the tail, Ronnie at the danger end and me in the middle. Into the bag it went and joined us in the pub, though it was not lucky enough to get stuck into the Mosis with us.
Many people say that snakes are scared of Humans and will not attack, except in defence. My Mother simply took no chances.
At boarding school in Natal, a friend had a red-lipped herald. We used to let it slither on our bodies. It was amazing to see that it was really a clean animal. Charles got found out and the snake had to go home.
Haven't seen a live snake in a while though our domestic found a rinkals in the garage a few years back. She called the neighbour who killed it and to prevent its mate from hanging around (snakes supposedly hang around in pairs) ceremoniously burnt the carcass.
Owen Thomas [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Henley on Klip, Gauteng, South Africa
Tuesday, July 15, 2003 at 20:51:53 (UTC)
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Jill Apllin
As i have not heard from you , I take it as ok to put your name down as team capitan for the wet teeshirt comp that im throwing in Livingstone, The old cell number i got of yours dont work doll, phone me,xxxx
as always,lots and jelly tots
Bugs
Bugs Da silva [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Zambia
Tuesday, July 15, 2003 at 18:58:50 (UTC)
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David,
The warning wasn't about me (as in Shaggies song), in 1952 I was only 5 years old and just starting to experiment with matches. Some of my memories may be a little faded after 50 years. The roman candle may not have been in the garage but possibily in the servants quarters, in the back yard. I just wish Ivor or his sister would pick up on the G.N.R and fill in the missing pieces.
I had an e-mail from Marilyn Noall this morning and she told me she had met up with the "Mollies" in Cape Town some years ago.
Please someone out there go out and kick some butt!! And get these ex Northerners onto the site.
Regards
Philip Pain [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Eshowe Kwazulu Natal, South Africa
Tuesday, July 15, 2003 at 18:48:22 (UTC)
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Heather
Thank for the great photos. The best time to see the fantastic colors is around late September just before the rains begin.
Jill
Red hair! Red is a colour for warning of danger! So I must pasop. As you say, "Lekker Lekker my firecrecker"!
Cheers - Doug
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Tuesday, July 15, 2003 at 18:32:47 (UTC)
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Hi Charles,
I knew 'Big' Paddy Allen in 1953 when he was in the Moble Unit and I was stationed at Kitwe. In August of that year the Mobile Unit had a team competing in the Police games at Kitwe. After being the overall winner the Mobile Unit team and supporters were in the middle of heavy celebrations when they were ordered to leave for Nyasaland. Official history has it that the team returned to Bwana to sober up. My recollection is that some departed immediately from Kitwe and woke up halfway to Blantyre their gear having met up with them on the way. I'm sure Paddy will confirm this was a vicious rumour.
Regards, Mike
Mike Wilson [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Dawlish, Devon, United Kingdom
Tuesday, July 15, 2003 at 17:24:27 (UTC)
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Philip
Your stories are priceless and I have no doubt that they are all true because we were warned about your pyrotechnics in class at FKS ±1952. If that roman candle had been ignited in our garage the tins of petrol and turps would have gone up and placed the roof in orbit! I am amazed that you are still with us. You certainly led a charmed life. Now I know that you are definitely a rocket scientist.
Cheers
David Gray [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
South Africa
Tuesday, July 15, 2003 at 16:07:36 (UTC)
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Richard Hillier
Happy Birthday
Doug Grewar
Chirundu Escarpment taken in April, July (two) and October. Also one of my favourite places
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Tuesday, July 15, 2003 at 04:31:43 (UTC)
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Have just read your posting Philip and really cracked up. It was hilarious. What a naughtly little boy you were!!!
June [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Christchurch, Canterbury, New Zealand
Tuesday, July 15, 2003 at 03:18:38 (UTC)
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Ah Philip,
Thank goodness you found your way to the GNR. I'm having aa pretty dismal time at work and, while eating breakfast this morning, needed a break so I went to the GNR and read your latest posting. I remember Guy Fawks night well! My brothers and I put a Katherine Wheel in a bottle once and when that wasn't spectacular enough we did the sky rocket thing. I can still remember the hiding we got! I think Dave Bromfield may have been involved in this. They lived next door.
Are you in touch with Ivor von Mollendorf. I saw a lot of the Mollies in Cape Town but have lost touch. Mrs M was a great woman. I don't think should would have told your mum about the fireworks. She probably couldn't work out where Ivor was getting all his courage from!
Keep up the good work.
Marilyn
Marilyn Noall (née Shooter) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Western Australia, Australia
Tuesday, July 15, 2003 at 02:41:23 (UTC)
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Phillip:
The roman candle story was so funny, I had tears streaming down my face when I read it. Those stories are the absolute best. I hope you are recording your memoirs for your family?
Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Monday, July 14, 2003 at 22:08:27 (UTC)
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Phil,
your sister Lena must be really lekker - she shares my birthday! I wonder if that's why I have red hair? Born with a fire cracker on my head? Love your stories!
Doug,
Great to speak to you on the phone tonight! I like you even more now! You ARE coming to Zambia with us - just enjoy!
Jilly
Jill Aplin [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
South Africa
Monday, July 14, 2003 at 21:15:58 (UTC)
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Bill
I clearly remember the fantastic range of colors of the new leaves that the trees pushed out in September just before the begining of the rains.
The most beautifull place was going down the escarpment to Chirundu. Spread out over the valley the trees were in all shades of green from lime to emerald and also all shades of red from pink to ruby. It looked like a giant's flower garden.
Cheers - Doug
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Monday, July 14, 2003 at 18:49:32 (UTC)
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More growing up in Nkana/Kitwe
The Roman Candle
It was around October 1955 when the shops were full of fireworks on sale for Guy Fawkes
on the 5th of November (this was always a big day on our family calender as it was also my sister Lena's Birthday).
On this particular Saturday morning a 10/- note "accidently" fell out of my Mom's handbag and which I happened to find. You know the story of "finders keepers". Well with all this wealth in my possession I walked up to Boma street, at the end of 4th Avenue, and picked up Ivor Von Mollendorf who lived at no. 17 Boma street, showing him my ten bob. We took a short cut through someone's yard at the back of Ivor's house, across the railway lines into town, straight to Standard Trading.
Boy! Do you remember how many crackers a person could buy for ten shillings? All those squibs in flat rows, wrapped in red paper, with all those beautiful coloured chinese dragons on the lables, packets of lady fingers (we used to unwind each one), jumping jacks and flash bombs. Well after the paper bag was full I still had money left and we decided (after much discussion) to buy a huge roman candle for half a crown.
On our way home we stopped in the veld with the anthills, which I mentioned in my story about smoking, we proceeded to blow up everything we could find. Crackers down antholes to form bomb craters, flash bombs under tins to see how high they could jump. Little boys just really having fun (fireworks are banned here in South Africa). Well as the day wore on and we had used up all our crackers, including breaking the duds in half and lighting the gunpowder to make them go like a trapped skyrocket. First one side of the break and then the other! We were finally left with the roman candle. Now as our parents would probably not let us out when it was dark and also I did'nt want to have to explain where the firework came from and realising that to enjoy the spectacle depicted on the lable, we needed to be in a dark place. We decided, after another discussion (we always discussed things, I think this was to give each other courage when we were up to mischief), to view this fantastic event inside Ivor's parents garage (they were not home at the time). So into the garage we went and closed the big wooden doors and lit the candle. I guess Ivor and did'nt know what a roman candle was, because we were sitting crossed legged on the floor when the show began. First pretty orange sparks showering out with beautiful little silver lights which jumped out and crackled, when all of a sudden there was this tremendous bang and the garage was filled with coloured balls of fire bouncing around all over the place (now I want you to use your imagination as to the panic we were experiencing while trying to get the doors open so we could get out). Me screaming, Ivor's screaming louder and then me louder than Ivor, each setting the other off. I was sure the world was coming to an end for us. When we finally got out, which felt like hours, this stupid firework carried on every few seconds to spew out more of these fireballs. We were in total panic and only after it had died down did I notice that Ivor had some serious burns and was starting to whine.
At this stage I thought maybe it was better that I go home before his parents came home. A few days later while on my way home, I saw Mrs. Von Mollendorf having a serious conversation with my Mom, in the road outside their house. Needless to say I made an immediate detour to get home, I waited around in the yard out of sight, up a mango tree, until supper time. When I eventually came inside, I was expecting to get "it" from my Mom and to my surprise she never mentioned a word. Comming to think of it now my Mom often used to stop and chat to all the ladies over the hedge on her way home from town. It must have been my guilty conscious getting the better of me (punishment enough), but I am ure they were discussing me.
I remember Ivor had to be treated at the mine Hospital for the burns.
NB: My Mom & Dad always told me :- "Don't play with fire!" As if a kid is going to listen, we always knew better (a box of Lion matches was the best thing a boy could have in his pocket).
Cheers for now.
Philip Pain [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Eshowe Kwazulu Natal, South Africa
Monday, July 14, 2003 at 18:34:47 (UTC)
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Linda:
Sorry about the recycling loop.
I'm not sure what the trouble is, but it may be related to the fact that I simply tagged the latest e-mails onto the end of our earlier correspondence, which already included some photos. Maybe this increased number tripped up your computer?
Anyway, no more for now.
Please advise when all clear.
Thanks
Bob Allan, Melbourne
Robert Allan [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Melbourne, Australia
Monday, July 14, 2003 at 06:15:52 (UTC)
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Sorry All,
found my mistake with the HTML I forgot the forward slash in the closing tags.
How long do I have to wear the DUNCE CAP?
Cheers
Philip Pain [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Eshowe Kwazulu Natal, South Africa
Monday, July 14, 2003 at 04:41:40 (UTC)
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Bob Allen:
Not sure what is happening but your latest emails with photos are in a loop downloading in my email. The same email has come in 10 times and still coming. Can you refrain from sending any more photos until I figure out what is causing the loop. Thanks, mate.
Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Monday, July 14, 2003 at 04:22:50 (UTC)
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Arthur,
I remember the firediving at the pool. It was amazing.
Clive has a photo of himself with Sir Stanley Matthews. I'll dig it out and send it on to you.
Philip
We weren't a scardeycat. I remember standing up on the top board, shaking, (and probably crying inside) but Pop wouldn't let me climb down so I jumped and screamed all the way down. Everything after that was just too easy.
Great photos, everyone. The board has livened up again. It's great! Keep the stories coming.
Marilyn
Marilyn Noall (née Shooter) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Western Australia, Australia
Monday, July 14, 2003 at 04:02:51 (UTC)
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To all those who know us.
Lizzie & I are having a leaving do on 18th October 2003.
It will be held at Taunton RFC, Hyde Lane Taunton, Somerset.
We are off to start a new life in Brisbane.
We look forward to seeing you for a few beers.
Cheers for now
Mark
Mark Powell [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Taunton, Somerset, United Kingdom
Sunday, July 13, 2003 at 22:36:13 (UTC)
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The recalls happen on odd ocasions and I flip back 50 years to Mufulira.
Must be age. Dont ask me what happened yesterday.
Does anyone remember the amazing colors of green that appeared in the new tree leaves?
I have a memory of greens, with sunlight passing through the tree leaves that, in my later life, cannot be matched. Pale and intrense, vivid.Perhaps that is the effect of a startling flash of childhood, but I keep on looking for that brilliant light green from Zambian trees and cannot find it. Is it dotage?
Or do others have the same?
On another topic.
I used to catch snakes when I could, but nowadays all we have here in safe, boring Canada are green, brown and yellow grass snakes.... perfectly harmless. The recall of a puff adder, newly shed of it's skin, at 06.30 in the morning, tramping throught the bush near Mulungushi on geological surveys. stays with me. One worker in front, looking for the signs, 2 on either side, spread out at 200 feet intervals and a line of us. Sun coursing through the trees and suddenly, the man in front of me takes a sideways and up leap of +-2 feet. Hey, says he. Words to that effect. And there, glistening in the sun bars, is a puffie, newly shed of skin. Out with the ubiquitous knife that I wore on the belt....(did that for years since scouting - would be locked up today), and I began playing peggie.... you know, that game where you peg a knife near but not at the foot of the other.
Finally, having got the distance, put one through the neck. Took it back to geo camp and skinnd it. Dried, but never saved, because a week later there was the spitting cobra. But thats another story.
Bill
William Knott [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Sunday, July 13, 2003 at 21:37:23 (UTC)
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Thanks for the happy birthday all,
Great photies Liz,
Keep it going Heather, Arthur, Craig and that git in holland.
We love you all
Pat
Pat McEnery [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Bromley, Kent, England
Sunday, July 13, 2003 at 21:10:50 (UTC)
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I think many people from Mufulira will remember (the late) Nino Mangiarotti the building contractor. I worked for him in the late 60's and he was very good to me. Mrs. Mangiarotti still lives in Mufulira. They had three children Paulo, Mario, and Gloria.
I have just received the bad news that Mario has passed away after lying in a coma for 3 weeks with gunshot wounds. He was attacked by robbers as he was opening his business in Lusaka.
My sympathy to Mrs. Mangiarotti for this sad loss.
Doug
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Sunday, July 13, 2003 at 20:27:16 (UTC)
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Sorry - yes 'those' - not 'thos....'
Sue Forde [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Midleton, Co. Cork, Ireland
Sunday, July 13, 2003 at 18:30:14 (UTC)
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G'day everyone!
Thos photos... thanks Arthur and all who submitted.
Liz - your gorgeous 5 minute sunset reminded me of '...the reds and the golds
that appear in the folds
of the African sky,
when night is nigh...'
Thank you.
Sue Forde [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Midleton, Co. Cork, Ireland
Sunday, July 13, 2003 at 18:26:02 (UTC)
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Arthur
Thanks a million for the pictures,and YES, YES, YES! I knew the top board of the swimming pool was a hundred feet high,
If you compared the photo in Robert Retamal's artical with the one you have just posted you will notice that top board is missing in Robert's picture. I seem to remember that at some time it was dismantled, maybe someone can comment.
I was trying to explain to Lynne how scared I was to jump off the top board and she looked at me as if I was a sissy and a fibber. Showing her Robert's photo and telling her that the board was much higher than the one in the photo. (I thought my memory was starting to fade and maybe I was a " bangbrook " as a kid ) My honour as Superman has been restored.
Arthur I thank you!
Regards
Philip Pain [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Eshowe Kwazulu Natal, South Africa
Sunday, July 13, 2003 at 17:16:58 (UTC)
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Liz:
Thanks for the photos. At the risk of opening up a can of worms here, is it just me that remembers the grass greener and the sky bluer, and can't place the buildings anymore in some cases. I spent a LOT of time propping the bar up at the Nag's Head and could not identify it from those photos now if you paid me to. And there were horses beyond the pub??? Ha! Ha!
How about you, Gordon?? Those days remind me of Vic and Jean Zamudio, Pete Farrow, The Great Dorrington, Hilary and Dave Clague, Russell Banning and Earl Carstens and many others whose names have faded. Those were the days, my friend. We thought they'd never end. But they did.
I better clean the lenses of these rose coloured glasses. He! He! Seriously, they were lovely photos, Liz and thanks so much for contributing them.
Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Sunday, July 13, 2003 at 15:21:03 (UTC)
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Northerners !
A few more contributions from our members
Looking down J ave into town....our new bungalow in J ave at the bottom end of town....Swimming pool Mufulira....all these photos were taken in the early 1940s...
Barry Morton
Thanks Barry - the postcard will go into the GNR archive along with a few others I have and will be displaayed in a special slot. Arthur
Hi Arthur,
hope this comes out OK! used my mates camera.
Prince Charles Sub A or B me in the middle front, Derick Irvine on my left.
Think you might like to have these for the memorabilia section of the G.N.R. I will scratch for some more.
Hope they come out ok
Does anyone still have miniatures?
Regards
Philip Pain
Hi Arthur,
Yes it's good to be back.
Bob Palmary was a keen supporter of racing, both at Bennett's and at the Lawrence Allen (Spelling?) Circuit, Chingola. Here's one of him in action.
Regards,
Mike Wilson
Herewith some photos of the clubs around Kitwe taken last month or thereabouts and one of the tailings along Central Street that various people mention with nostalgia.
The Kalulushi stables and (I think) the Mine Farm and dam were taken over by a private company and turned into a leisure resort called Umulu.
I daresay that there are a few people around who remember the clubhouse - was the pub called the Nag's Head? Even I have vague memories of shows in the main arena but the stables are virtually gone now. We never went there when it was open as the resort but I believe it was quite nice and served pretty good food. When we were in Kitwe earlier this year, looking for somewhere to take Dick to do a bit of quiet fishing, not too far away, we decided to have a look at Umulu and found the place completely derelict. It seems that there was some dispute with ZESCO, the Bailiff's moved in and stripped the place, after which there was an appeal. Oh, sorry. Mistake. The place is due to reopen but how they replace all the equipment that was taken will be another story. Anyway, their loss, our gain because we had the place to ourselves. Well, apart from the guy who had gone there with his girlfriend for a quiet bit of 'how's your father'. I like to think that his wife and probably her husband would be thanking us, if only they knew.
It really is a lovely spot and I know there's loads of fish because I could see the little critters jumping. Pity we couldn't catch any of them. We tried worms, steak, kapenta and even an evil mix of curry powder, custard powder, bread and I shudder to think what else but they weren't having any of it (spinning was out of the question as our life-time accumulation of lures has been stolen). But, no matter as we had a very pleasant time there and a very un-Zambian braai - prawns instead of meat. (Actually, we also had the wors and boring old steak as well but I only had eyes for the prawns!)
Can you indulge me on just this one please? (just this once Liz - ask Heather about my love of sunset pics - Arthur)
I took a pic of the sunset at Umulu, then another and another etc. All in all it spanned 5 magical minutes - a sunset that could only happen in Africa. And it's times like these that I wish I didn't have a MM camera!
Cheers
Liz Downing
Liz - thanks for a really brilliant contribution ! You will notice the I displayed the photo of the slimes dam on Central Street first ! If this photo is taken looking at the dam from opposite Prince Charles School then this was one of many favourite places to play as a kid, there were several water pools just before the dam in the dip, here we spent many hours swimming and playing in these pools. I would not like to think of all the horrors that lurked there, they seemed OK anyway, must have been the chemical cocktails in the water pools that kept them so clear.
The Rhokana Cinema looks so sad, there are several really good photos of the bio on the GNR going back to the early 30's, the building changed appearance a number of times over the years.
The mine mess did the best Cornish pasties in the universe.
Chris Tamm, Linda Moult
In the Links section of the GNR (shopping section) there are a couple of links to websites selling the biltong machines and you can see photos and descriptions of them there. Linda are either of the links to the place you mentioned the other day? Good to see you back too Linda.
Philip Pain, Bill Hunt, David Gray, Bill Owen
Here's a couple of photos from the Rhokana Review
Does anyone remember these boy's?
Philip's description of the "enamil bucket and Jeyes Fluid" really made me larf, but so true. I have that t-shirt too, I think the smell made you want to puke even more. When I had my polio immunisation it was the usual traumatic trip down to the gates of hell, Nkana Hospital for a jab. Now that place had a smell I will never forget, methylated spirits - which they liberally swabbed on your arm or arse before they stuck the large blunt needle in, depending on what it was they were giving you. Those nurses had a grip of iron. I hate the smell of meths to this day.
Philip
This one's for you.
Rhokana Swimming pool - fire diving.
Steve & Marge de Lange
Had a look through years 55-56 - no mention of Larry Adler visiting Nkana, though interestingly Stanley Matthews did and joined in a game or two while there to packed audiences.
I will keep looking.
Arthur Steevens [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stockport, United Kingdom
Sunday, July 13, 2003 at 11:01:25 (UTC)
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Chris Tamm
The Biltong Maker is a box-like thingy that provides the correct environment in which to make biltong. You do remember biltong don't you? Beef, game, ostrich... the dried meat all us picanins used to munch an awful lot? The Biltong maker allows you to make biltong even in Lapland - but then you would not have to worry abput temperatures living where you do! I loved Oahu when I was there some 13 years ago resting it up after lugging my backpack around several other countries.
Rugby lovers
Maybe there was a smattering of germane talent in the team, but having been in the pub while the game was on yesterday, I found I was more interested in watching the people in the smoky environment! It was a show to beat all other shows. I have rarely seen people get so intense whilst downing several Castles.
Linda Moult [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Kyalami, Johannesburg, South Africa
Sunday, July 13, 2003 at 08:06:56 (UTC)
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Doug The Age Of Miracles Has Not Yet Passed.
Regards Johnny.
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Sunday, July 13, 2003 at 05:31:51 (UTC)
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Johnny:
You can believe the story as true. After all, it was me who drop kicked him across the street as he fell on his head, and we all know a Kitwe bun would never tell a lie. Oops, I think I just caught my nose in the keyboard Ha! Ha! But seriously, take note that he is not denying the story.
Heather:
I sent the link to those beautiful islands to my husband and told him that is where I want to go for our 20th wedding anniversary (as a surprise) and he better start saving. He has not mentioned that he got the email from me, so hope springs eternal. Either that, or he is afraid that once I drink the waters of Zambia again, I will refuse to come back to the States.
Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Sunday, July 13, 2003 at 05:15:52 (UTC)
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If the story of my friend Charles leaping off the post office roof is true, it must have been done with a view to giving him some degree of safety when he was planning to scale up the side of the Elephants Head hotel at night to peek through the windows at my old girl friend the Tassel Tosser in action. regards Johnny.
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Sunday, July 13, 2003 at 04:43:17 (UTC)
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thanks to those who emailed me re Woodlands School where my mom was a teacher. Does anyone know the whereabouts of the Bowens. Mrs Bowen taught me how to ride, I shall never forget her strident tones berating me for being hopeless at dressage! As a child I spent all my spare time either at Woodlands pool, or at the showgrounds in Lusaka cleaning tack and generally helping at the stables. Mrs Bowen probably remembers me with dislike as she lent me a jacket for a showjumping event in l977, I hung it on a fence and it got stolen, sorry Mrs Bowen! My Mom, Pamela Rybicki taught at Woodlands School from 1964 to l977, she would love to hear, via me, from any ex pupils, (unless it is someone she cracked over the head with a ruler), and come to think of it, her nickname was Mrs Rabies. She taught Scottish Country Dancing once a week in the hall at Woodlands School, and a certain Patalani Nyalugwe confided her nickname to me.
Re: Northern Rhodesians popping up all over the place, our local family doctor in Drumcliffe, north Sligo was amazed when we first registered with him in l99l, he recognized the surname, it turns out that he went to St. Georges with my eldest brother Ed, and that my mother taught him briefly in infants in Livingstone primary school in l953. His name is Paul Money, it was a strange coincidence. I have also contacted Alison re the Biltong making machine, it would be a dream come true to gnaw on a stick of biltong up here in the northwest of Ireland, where literally, the sun doesnt shine for weeks sometimes. Ciao everybody, I love the message board, brings Zambia a little closer, Meg
Meg Rybicki (formerly Margaret) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Mullanyduff, Co Leitrim, Ireland
Sunday, July 13, 2003 at 00:24:24 (UTC)
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Recent Site Updates:
July 12th, 2003:- Added information on visas, airport departure tax, travel insurance and malaria to the "Livingstone Lark" page and made updated sections very obvious.
- All pending Names Directory applications are now listed on the main Names Directory page. This is a way for pending members to see what, if anything, is happening with their application to join the GNR. This should be especially helpful for those potential members who have (presumably inadvertently) entered a bad e-mail address.
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Saturday, July 12, 2003 at 21:23:57 (UTC)
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Bug-a-Lugs Batu,
Are you playing hard to get? I have phoned your SA cell and left TWO missed calls - over to you.
Sweetlips
X X X
Jill Aplin [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
South Africa
Saturday, July 12, 2003 at 20:49:57 (UTC)
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Doug Grewar
Eh but, inindaba lo computa
I watched the game and for the first time since the Pienaar world cup saw a cohesive team with determination and flair (bit more work needed here) but very pleased with the result. Bodes well for the future.
Mind you, who would have expected Zambia to win, regardless of which side.
Raises a point, was Gary Tiechmann at all related to Norbert teichmann?
Typing ability fast being affected by Charles Glass. Gottogo
Owen Thomas [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Henley on Klip, Gauteng, South Africa
Saturday, July 12, 2003 at 20:13:10 (UTC)
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Hey Johnny,
The Boks are back. They beat the Australian Wallabies 26 - 22 in Capetown today. A terrific game.
Both Captains, Corne Krige & George Gregan were born in Zambia (germanity established). Gregan is like a jack in the box, he pops up all over the place.
Cheers - Doug
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Saturday, July 12, 2003 at 17:06:11 (UTC)
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HELP !
I'm wondering if there is someone living in or going to Lusaka who would be willing to help me.
A while ago I went searching for my grandfather's music he wrote for the NR Police. I wrote a letter to the Commissioner of Police and received an e-mail back saying they have the music there. I e-mailed back asking them to let me know how they would send me the music and if I could send them a postal money order to cover the cost. Haven't heard back.
Would someone be able to visit the Commisioner's office, find the music and arrange shipping it ? It's a lot to ask.
Please contact me if you'd love to do such a thing !!!!
Gill Kopy
Gill Kopy (née Bennett) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Northern British Columbia, Canada
Saturday, July 12, 2003 at 17:05:09 (UTC)
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Ant Tait and Greg Crawford
Happy Birthday
and
Bob Summers, Doug Borland, Pat McEnery, Keith Johnston and John Watson
Happy Birthday for tomorrow
Northerners
Last weekend I was doing some tidying up on my computer and came across this photo which was emailed to me last year in September:
The one and only Glen Drake, with his "new" 30 year old 1972 350SL with the hard top removed. It's the perfect California summer two-seater and it's V8 ain't that greedy.
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Saturday, July 12, 2003 at 13:55:04 (UTC)
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jill apllin
sweetlips, give me a miss call on 0823658798,
soon dish
love u lots
bugs xxx
Bugs Da silva [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Zambia
Saturday, July 12, 2003 at 12:09:26 (UTC)
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Phillip Pain
The sugar cubes bring back memories but were too late for me. I got polio when I was 2 (1954) but am one of the lucky ones. It left me knock-kneed and with a slight stoop in the back. Everything functions normally and I played sport etc. like any other kid. I was very fortunate.
My Mother told me I had to wear boots with calipers and refused to go to bed without my "booties"
Owen Thomas [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Henley on Klip, Gauteng, South Africa
Saturday, July 12, 2003 at 10:51:49 (UTC)
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DAVID GREY
Hi david,
thanks for the message. Yes Treavor was Phillip Gothan's brother, he was older than me and I have many memories of him. My mom was friends with
Mrs. Gothan and she often spoke of how Phillip was a healthy kid one day and the next he was down with Polio. I suppose that is why she was so concerned about us kids when we were young.
I remember the massive drive to innoculate all the kids at school (injections before sugar cubes with pink drops) A short while ago I read a summary of a book which I think was called "The River" the book looks at the search for a vaccine for polio and where AIDS started. The maps show where the first unofficial polio vaccine tests were done in the Congo and compare them with the areas of the first recorded outbreaks of AIDS in Africa the Copperbelt features prominently in the maps. (Frightening stuff)
Some years ago I heard that Phillip was in a Home here in Durban, unfortunately I never managed to get to see him. I remember Phillip used to make leather goods to sell to make pocket money and the frustrations he suffered when he droped somthing onto the floor.
This is my first attempt at HTML hope it comes out ok.
Cheers
Philip Pain [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Eshowe Kwazulu Natal, South Africa
Saturday, July 12, 2003 at 08:31:22 (UTC)
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Philip Pain......
I too love your stories of growing up in NR/Zambia..I just wish I had such memories, keep them rolling in.....it is amazing how many people that are around who come from NR/Zambia...when I was growing up in New Zealand, I came across just one person........I have been in Perth for 17 years, and in the past 2 years I have met so many....and who do I thank ........that's right the wonderful GNR..!!!!!.....and through the GNR I finally have an identity........Just wish I could be in Livingstone in September..........(miracles do happen !!! )
Ali
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Saturday, July 12, 2003 at 04:34:43 (UTC)
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Hi All,
THIS IS GETTING UNREAL!
Another member of the bowling club from N.R.
DEREK SWINTON.
Bancroft 1961-1969
Primary school,_______Bancroft Jnr.
High school___________Chingola High
Played rugby for Bancroft Blades
Has a brother ANDREW (ANDY) was a jockey
Remembers:-
Bulldog Woods
Darrel Botha
Midge Taljaart
Ian Mitten (Must tell all of us about the one shilling)
Jack Delport (Weight lifting)
Cheers ,
Philip Pain [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Eshowe Kwazulu Natal, South Africa
Friday, July 11, 2003 at 19:15:54 (UTC)
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Linda Moult,
What on earth is a Biltong Making Machine? (You can see I have been away from the dark continent for too long!)
Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Friday, July 11, 2003 at 18:46:39 (UTC)
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PAUDIE & SUE,
Bring wedding forward and get hitched in Livingstone at the Lark!
Jilly
Jill Aplin [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
South Africa
Friday, July 11, 2003 at 09:47:40 (UTC)
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Ian Beveridge, Shelagh Drennan, Ian Wallace, Carle Nave, John Curtis
Happy Birthday
David Gray
Fear not. Philip's stories are already being extracted and stored for placement in the correct section of the GNR when the overhaul is completed, together with all the other interesting stories that have appeared over the years (I just haven't had time to contact Philip to tell him that this is what I will be doing)
Philip Pain
Read my message to David. I'll be emailing you as soon as I have a moment.
About all these ex-NR's that you keep meeting up with. How about you persuade them (and yourself) to come to the Livingstone Lark
Paudie and Sue
When you get married, you will want to go on an really romantic honeymoon. Yes??
How about Zambia and how about Islands of Siankaba or read a review here
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Friday, July 11, 2003 at 08:47:46 (UTC)
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Hi all
Would anyone be interested in purchasing a biltong maker? I have a friend who exports them. I get nothing out of the deal in case you think I am advertising. I am only making a general enquiry.
Linda Moult
Linda Moult [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Kyalami, Johannesburg, South Africa
Friday, July 11, 2003 at 08:40:30 (UTC)
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Philip
Great stories, keep them rolling in - may you never grow up!
Your friend Trevor must have been the younger brother of Philip Gothan who was a polio victim. We were at school together. My heart went out to him as he tried so hard to cope with calipers and crutches and the specially built tricycle on which he rode to Frederick Knapp School next door. Life really dealt him a bad hand. Polio was an ever present threat in the summer months. Another friend, Philip Handford, contracted polio and was completely paralysed. He died several years later. Those were the days before TV and poor Philip had few distractions. Occasionally I was allowed to take the FKS 16 mm sound projector and whatever films were currently on loan to give him a film show. That is why the work currently being done by Rotary is so important. Rotary has been fighting the scourge via their 'Polio Plus Programme' for some 10 years now and hopes to eliminate polio worldwide within the next 2 years. Their efforts have been largely hi jacked by other organisations claiming the successes. Hey, this didn't start out as a serious contribution but polio was part of life in early NR.
Philip, as relative newcomer to GNR, I hope that you have read "Nkana in the Thirties and Forties" by Robert Retamal (You will find it in the 'After Livingstone' section - great memories and good photographs!)
Arthur
Is it possible to gather all Philips "Growing Up" items and place them in 'Northern Tales' ??? They are too good to be scattered through the archives! (With your permission of course Philip!)
Cheers
David Gray [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
South Africa
Friday, July 11, 2003 at 08:22:38 (UTC)
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Batu,
Have placed missed call on your SA cellphone and I wait with bated breath,
Love, Sweetlips X X X
Jill Aplin [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
South Africa
Friday, July 11, 2003 at 08:19:50 (UTC)
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Hi again to all
Looks like half the members at our bowling club are ex Northern Rhodesians, the following guys crawled out of the woodwork last night while Bruce and I were chatting about the G.N.R. They are:-
Ian Stewart - lived in Ndola 1955 to1961and went to Kasenjie primary school.
Rob van Straaten - lived in Kitwe in the 1960's he was only 7 when his parents left but has an older brother who attended K.B.H. school in the 60's I will get more info when I see Rob again.
Casper (Cas) Elliot worked on Rhodesian Railways as an engine driver between Lusaka and Livingstone.
I will get more info
Cheers for now,
Philip Pain [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Eshowe Kwazulu Natal, South Africa
Friday, July 11, 2003 at 04:57:42 (UTC)
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David Gray:
Annual "yacht" race in the dry river beds of Alice Springs?? Sounds more like something a BH okie would have done in the 60's. Come to think of it... didn't Charlie Cartmill once try to jump off the Post Office roof with an OK Bazaars plastic bag for a parachute? I heard that straight from the lips of a Kitwe "bun" who drop kicked him across the street as he landed. (Luv ya, Charlie.)
Bugs da Silva:
You are in a heap of trouble. Interpol has been phoning all your friends. I told them I am driving an American car, so I cannot vouch for you. Sorry.
Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Friday, July 11, 2003 at 04:47:54 (UTC)
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THANK YOU to all those posting their good wishes today - Sandra, Chandru, June, Jacqui, Heather, Johnny Green, and all of you who emailed privately.
Paudie & Sue.
Paudie Coughlan [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Midleton Co Cork, Ireland
Thursday, July 10, 2003 at 21:27:39 (UTC)
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MORE GROWING UP IN NKANA/KITWE
SARLEM MENTHOL
At around the age of 6 or 7, Treavor Gothan and I were best friends, he lived at No.9 Boma street which was next to Fedrick Knapp school on the Eastern side where the dirt road went to what I think were some railway houses at the back of Boma street. This road was the short cut from our area to town. By crossing the railway lines you came out at the station close to, and if my memory is still with me on the road where the Dutch Reformed and the Anglican churches are. (More about the Anglican church socials later when I get to 11 years old )
On this particular day I went to Treavors house to play and on arriving there, Treavor had in his possession a box of twenty "SARLEM MENTHOL CIGARETTS" and a box of matches, after some dicussion we decided to go to our fort which was a gaint anthill in the area between Boma street back lane and the station. Our fort was the biggest anthill in the area, which at some time before our occupation had been excavated on the top into a redoubt by some other guys at some time long ago as the excavation was overgrown with grass. This anthill was an excellent place for cardboard box sliding. ( Great fun)
When we arrived at our fort (Thanks to the guys who did all the digging it was a fort of note! ) from this fort you could see someone approaching from tomorrow.
On arriving there we started with our smoking experiment,(Treavor explained to me that the menthol cigs tasted like peppermints and your folks would not be able to smell that you had been smoking from your breath) we tried all the things which we had seen the grown ups doing with cig's.
After several cig's I started to feel kind of ill and decided that maybe it would be a good idea to go home.
On arriving home my Mom took one look at me and decided that I was on death's door and put me straight to bed. As I could not explain why I was so sick and She was so concerned for my health that She wanted to send a message to Dr. Hanna at the mine hospital to come to the house to attend to me. ( Those days doctors still did house calls)
Afraid that the docter would find out why I was so sick, I convinced my Mom that after puking into the enamil bucket (with JAYES FLUID ) that what I had eaten had come out and I was on the road to recovery and feeling much better.
The lesson which I learnt that day has stayed with me all my life and are one of the lucky ones never to have smoked in their lives.
To the BULLIES who tried to force me to smoke TURBO CABBAGE behind the ASTRA cinema (You know who you are ) I guess you got your dues, the big wheel turns.
Cheers to all
Philip Pain [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Eshowe Kwazulu Natal, South Africa
Thursday, July 10, 2003 at 21:13:36 (UTC)
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Congratulations Paudie and Sue it was a pleasure meeting you in Banbury hope you will be very happy, Johnny.
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Thursday, July 10, 2003 at 20:49:57 (UTC)
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Chukky?????
I am soft on Broken Hill men - all is forgiven. But it will cost you when we meet again - which I hope will be soon!
Jacqui Milward (née Lackenby) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
London, England
Thursday, July 10, 2003 at 19:01:11 (UTC)
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to Jill Apllin
hey sweetlips, can you give me a miss call on my s a cell phone as i need to speak to you before you go to Livingstone, if you dont, next time im in j h b il came round and meet you nice hubby and tell him what a nice quite lady you were when we were growing up,..
hope to hear from you real soon,
love you lots and jelly tots
bugs.XXX
Bugs Da silva [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Zambia
Thursday, July 10, 2003 at 19:01:09 (UTC)
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ANNE BRADFIELD
The e-mail address you are using in your attempts to contact me and which you also used in your application does not work. This is the error message I get back:
Sorry, I couldn't find any host named h.b.ndo.co.uk.
Please find your correct e-mail address or use another one and contact me again. Thanks.
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Thursday, July 10, 2003 at 18:57:56 (UTC)
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Morag Boardman, James Hoyle
Happy Birthday
LIVINGSTONE LARK
We now have a total of 17 confirmed and a very distinct possibility of another who has already made his air bookings. And that is only the people coming from outside of Zambia - one from Australia, four from Canada, five from UK and seven from behind the Boerewors Curtain.
Yesterday I sent emails to all those who have confirmed, confirming that I have your correct arrival information etc. If you have emailed me about the Lark and have not received this confirmation from me, please email me now.
BRASSO
Thanks. Hang on to the tapes and I'll collect them from you.
PHILIP PAIN
Gordon Wadey is still here. I'll try to get his email address for you when I've got a couple of minutes to breath.
SUE AND PAUDIE
Congratulations
CJ
Can you scan the map? If you can, email it to me and I'll try sometime (probably only early next year because I seem to be pretty booked up for the rest of this year) to see what is there. But I doubt whether anything came of it, because as far as I know the only coal we have comes from Maamba.
Thank you so much for the map of the Stevenson Road. Another trip to add to the list of trips that I want to do.
Craig
It's not the kaya; its because you won't let me wear a chitenge or sleep on a grass mat and because there is no kapenta there. Do you have a three-legged cast iron pot for me to cook my nshima in? Exactly!! I didn't think so.
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Thursday, July 10, 2003 at 15:39:10 (UTC)
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To LINDA DORE
Im only going to tell you only once,.....
Bring a big truck iner tube with you to Livimgstone as im going to thow you over the VIC FALLS in september,....Listen sweetlips, hope you havent put on any weight since we last together as the tube is heavy already , Heard there is a load ok dudes and dudess going to be there, go on to my site and have a look at me and tell your hubby i was you first hubby,and dont i look so slim????
check www.bugsforcars.com I see Veronica Vough now and then as see lives up the road from my flat in Durban,Hey dish get back pronto to me....CAPISHE XXXX
Bugs Da silva [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Zambia
Thursday, July 10, 2003 at 15:00:30 (UTC)
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Sark,
"Chucky's gonna get you" for this!!!!
Jacqui,
Please accept my most humble apology. I must've been experiencing a Senior Moment. We only had women and ladies in BH - the term 'Buns' is just not appropriate to BH women.
I recall there were 2 airfields in BH. The old Aerodrome on the way out to Mulungushi (just past the cave-in grounds) and the Flying Club at Johnny Milligan's. Regarding my map-making, I was just ensuring that Artie was kept in the dark w.r.t. BH (he already knew about the petrol pump and the big tree). We must avoid, at all costs, getting him Tsetschie.
Regards
Chukky
Charles Cartmill [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Pinelands, Cape Town, South Africa
Thursday, July 10, 2003 at 14:43:21 (UTC)
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Yes Charlie - please explain!
Owen
Of course there is an air strip in Broken Hill - it was the centre of the universe!
Arthur
Provocation works some of the time! I lurk on this road almost daily - like you told me to - but I have already told all my germaine stories! At the moment I am enjoying all the new ones. And one of these fine days I will get some photos posted to you! I am a bit worried about Johnny too as I haven't had any 'porn' dropped in my mail box for a while either!!
Sue and Paudie
Congratulations and Best Wishes for a happy life together!
Jacqui Milward (née Lackenby) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
London, England
Thursday, July 10, 2003 at 14:17:45 (UTC)
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Arthur,
That's a great photo of the happy engaged couple. The talk of the GNR. It's such a happy story.
Who is next, I wonder?
Philip Pain,
Thanks for the photo of the Singer sewing machine table! We always want what we can't have, don't we?
Marilyn
Marilyn Noall (née Shooter) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Western Australia, Australia
Thursday, July 10, 2003 at 09:49:40 (UTC)
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Denise Wellbeloved
As what we 'got up to' at our weekend away, was sealed in those four walls, I'm sorry I can't tell you what we drank. I'm sure it was water! Your name was mentioned several times but I'm sorry - no can tell. As an old(er) Kitwe friend I wonder how the years have treated you? Your two sons must be the same age as Sammy and Adam, I think? Time flies, hey? How is the lovely Bernard and your mum?
So sorry to hear about your car accident. There are some bad drivers out there. Obviously they didn't learn to drive in Kitwe. Do you remember the driving inspector with the cute son?
I'm ruminating now so tot siens.
Marilyn
Marilyn Noall (née Shooter) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Western Australia, Australia
Thursday, July 10, 2003 at 09:42:34 (UTC)
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Sue,
No, not busier than anyone else, just poorly organised. I keep trying to get Heather to be my secretary, but she keeps saying something about not paying enough and the kaya being too small. :)
Congratulations again. We're going to have to consider some sort of section for this site where we record all of these successes, especially a love story like this one.
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Thursday, July 10, 2003 at 08:41:12 (UTC)
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Linda - re Alice Springs
They have an annual "yacht" race in a dry river bed if that helps you at all !!! Saw the event on TV some years back - looked like fun.
Cheers
David Gray [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
South Africa
Thursday, July 10, 2003 at 08:40:56 (UTC)
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Many congratulations on your engagement Paudie and Sue.
June Dobson (née Jocks) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Christchurch, Canterbury, New Zealand
Thursday, July 10, 2003 at 07:27:28 (UTC)
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Paudie and Sue,
Although we have never met, congratulations on your engagement! Another great use of the GNR!
Best wishes,
Chandru Krishna [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Rockville, Maryland, United States
Thursday, July 10, 2003 at 05:30:19 (UTC)
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Paudie & Sue
Congratulations on your engagement.
Love & Best Wishes
The Marsh Family
Sandra Hooper (née Marsh) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Western Australia, Australia
Thursday, July 10, 2003 at 02:15:50 (UTC)
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Rod Crowe
Thank you too! Lovely wishes. What did you think?
Sue Forde [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Midleton, Co. Cork, Ireland
Wednesday, July 09, 2003 at 23:47:12 (UTC)
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Wilma - I am sure Pete is feeling much better now. It was a pleasure chatting to him. Of course I will sign the book - just send the details as per my website www.francesmacaulayforde.com and a copy will be in the next mail.
Linda Hayes - Sorry and thanks too. I have just seen your email in Paudies' inbox. Sorry your computer is down at the moment... I sent you a photo of the ring!
Bridget Billany - So kind - TA. Paudie says to say 'I'm looking forward to seeing the elusive photos of the Muf Bury Bash...'
Mandy Fenton - I've not met you - perhaps at the next reunion... thanks for your kind wishes.
Laura and Ian Kyle - We'll hold you to that! When you phone tomorrow I will be at a workshop in the City... sorry. How about popping over here quickly for a REAL catch up?
All the GNR's... as the song says '...most of all - I wish you love.'
Sue Forde [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Midleton, Co. Cork, Ireland
Wednesday, July 09, 2003 at 23:25:07 (UTC)
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Dear Paudie and Sue,
I just showed Pete your photo, he then remebered that he had been helping the young people at the Banbury Cross bash with the Briaa.
Needless to say he was a bit worse for the ware after all the beer, while cooking all that meat. When he was outside feeling a bit under the weather he was very grateful to Sue who came and sat with him,
So once again enjoy your time together.
Sue by the way I do want a signed book.
Lots of Love Pete and 'Wilma
Wilma Wall (née Henry) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Almelo, Netherlands
Wednesday, July 09, 2003 at 22:37:39 (UTC)
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To everyone on the GNR - thank you so much for all your messages...
Especially Dave C - No finder’s fee but yes – yet another 1st for the GNR!
Marilyn Noall and Jill Aplin - Thanks for your good wishes too.
Arthur S. - Thank you for posting the photo so quickly – we ARE so lucky!
Madeleine Luckin – A lovely message – Ta!
Craig Hartnett – We know you’re a busy man but appreciate your thoughts.
John Costop – He certainly found me!
Wilma Wall – We didn’t mean to make you cry but will take the hugs.
Fiona Gather, Ali Key and Charlie Cartmill – Much appreciated!
Gill Main – We haven’t stopped smiling either!
Brasso, Tasha and Scott – Thanks. Huggies and Kissies accepted!
Doug Grewar and Owen Thomas –Thanks for reading my website Owen!
See how many gorgeously romantic men there are out there girls?
Sue Forde [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Midleton, Co. Cork, Ireland
Wednesday, July 09, 2003 at 22:16:05 (UTC)
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Paudie & Sue
Congraulations. Just goes to show, it's never too late and never too soon.
Enjoy, enjoy.
Owen Thomas [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Henley on Klip, Gauteng, South Africa
Wednesday, July 09, 2003 at 19:41:59 (UTC)
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Broken Hill has an airstrip. I remember it well. One of out intrepid glider pilots attempted a x-country flight, Muf - BH and back. He got to BH and was so taken with the place, he landed. We finally picked him up at midnight. He'd taken a sleeping bag with him, walked to the local and armed himself with lots of Mosi's and was prepared to stay the night. It also had a hotel, very comfortable whe ones vehicle is broken.
Owen Thomas [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Henley on Klip, Gauteng, South Africa
Wednesday, July 09, 2003 at 19:34:15 (UTC)
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Paudie & Sue,
Wonderfull News! Hearty congratulations!
Cheers - Doug
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Wednesday, July 09, 2003 at 19:07:42 (UTC)
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Hi Heather,
I am having problems with my email at the moment, but yes we are coming to the Lark, and I need to get hold of people here who said they are too to find out what they are doing. Hopefully I'll be able to contact you privately tomorrow.
Anyone need a lift to Livingstone? Let me know so that I can finalise arrangements from my side!
Jilly
Jill Aplin [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
South Africa
Wednesday, July 09, 2003 at 15:46:41 (UTC)
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Paudie & Sue - CONGRATULATIONS!
Wow at last! On behalf of Natasha, Scott & myself our very best wishes to U both. Sue lots of huggies & kisses from me!
Brasso, Tasha & Scott. :-)
Gary Brassington [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Banbury, Oxon., United Kingdom
Wednesday, July 09, 2003 at 15:28:04 (UTC)
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Oh dear,
CJ - Two things I'm sending over to you in the fair Cape as fast as I can,
Johnny Green's extra strong monacle - I wrote BUNS, not bums. Buns have always been for girls, as for the boys I never said a thing. For some though the description fits well.
A ruler - so you get a nice flat liner for your map. Do you need pics of the animals for the BH Zoo?
You might have to wait until I can prise Johnny away from whatever he's surfing at the moment, I can guess though by the low moral standard of the photos he keeps dropping in my e-mail box. Is he still "visiting" Aberdeen, not seen him for a while?
And seriously back to you CJ, any map is better than none, can you remember the names of the bendy roads though?
Arthur
Arthur Steevens [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stockport, United Kingdom
Wednesday, July 09, 2003 at 14:16:07 (UTC)
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Arthur...
I'm concerned about you. Very concerned! Have you becoming 'a sensitive man of the new millenium'? Girls are girls - and boys are boys! Maybe you posted during a 'senior moment' (craft). Jokes aside - you do a great job on the Board.
Regards
CJ
PS I started drawing a map of BH for you - and have got as far as plotting an old Fig Tree and a hand operated petrol pump. I'll just have to insert some elephants and lions in all the empty spaces.
Charles Cartmill [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Pinelands, Cape Town, South Africa
Wednesday, July 09, 2003 at 13:29:00 (UTC)
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CJ
Looks like you're going to have to do some quick explaining to all the other buns from BH.
Or are you telling me Beth's the ONE and only gorgeous babe from BH?
As a vundu fisherman yourself you should recognise when it's blue soap I leave in the water.
How is it you're so easy to catch these days?
Sark
Arthur Steevens [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stockport, United Kingdom
Wednesday, July 09, 2003 at 11:50:43 (UTC)
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Paudie and Sue
You beauts - what kept you??? Am a sucker for a good love story but please don't pass this around as my street cred would go straight down the tubes, nes pas. Enjoy, am dead chuffed and I have a "smile on my dial".
Here's wishing you.......... well, Everything.
Enjoy.
Gill
Gill Main [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Aberdeen, Scotland
Wednesday, July 09, 2003 at 11:06:48 (UTC)
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Sue and Paudie....
Congradulations.
Arthur...
You're seldom wrong but this time you're right! That delightful young lady from BH may just be visiting your shores - therefore the absence from the message board. You were, of course, referring to Beth Lloyd.
Heather ...
I was looking at an old map of the Broken Hill Rural District (one of those hand-drafted types that read "Compiled by J E Blunden, D.C., from compass and cyclometer traverses, during District Tours 1952-53. Revised by H.P.Haile, D.C., 1957-59"), and was fascinated to see an area (about 12 miles south of Mulungushi Power Station and down the Muchinga Escarpment - on the Kalobi River) marked "Coal Area". I wonder if it was ever a profitable venture.
Ron (our man in Hong Kong)...
Yesterday I spent a few hours with Holt (Paddy) Allen (ex NRP) reminiscing about the 'good auld days' - a most entertaining morning. His three brothers (Wilfred, Ernest and Freddie) are also domicile in the Cape. Paddy is currently Vice-Chairman (that's not a pun) of the IPA - W/Cape region. Speaking of the IPA ... a friend of mine recently visited the club, in Cape Town, where a member regaled him with tales of his adventures in NR. When my friend recounted these misadventures to me, I was amazed to hear how the storyteller had laid claim to an event that had happened to Paddy and my father (Jones) in the 50's. The true story was.... An African, clad in white MO jacket with stethoscope around his neck, was wandering from village to village and charging the villagers a few bob each to have an injection that was guaranteed to keep all ailments at bay. He made a tidy sum from his wanderings and things were going well - until he ran out of 'muti'. No problem, he decided to just fill his 'muti' bottles and syringes with river water - and that's when he started leaving a trail of death and disaster. Holt was put on the case and immediately enlisted my father's help in trailing the 'doctor' - which proved quite a task. When they caught up with the 'bush doctor', he resisted all 'forms of persuasions' to confess his crimes - he must've been a tough case given that Holt and my father are Irishmen. Eventually, Holt informed the culprit my father was a 'Doctor' - and that they intended to administer the bush doctor's own medicine to him - using his own syringe and 'medicines'. Needless to say the culprit confessed with some alacrity. Holt and my father have many such 'adventures' to recount during their years of friendship in NR.
Regards
Charles Cartmill [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Pinelands, Cape Town, South Africa
Wednesday, July 09, 2003 at 09:39:20 (UTC)
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Sue and Paudie........CONGRATULATIONS....
Love and wishes from ....Ali
Marilyn..... Thanks ....it is a wonderful opportunity to work with these young people....a real challenge, but with some fantastic results....
Ali
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Wednesday, July 09, 2003 at 09:21:38 (UTC)
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Hi Phillip
One of the Wellbeloved girls here.
Have been wanting to post a message for ages, but a month or so ago, a 4wd went into the back of my car, slammed me into the front car, no car left and lousy neck pain to sort out.
Have been reading the gnr. I remember your Mom very well, I am sure she used to be on the bus with us kids when going to Prince Charles School, used to get on the bus at Fred. Knapp. We lived in 2nd Avenue, next to Ramsay Roberts a couple of houses from Central? the road going past Nkana Hospital. We used to think walking back from Frederick Knapp home was a hell of a long way. I think your Dad may have worked at some time with my Dad, but not sure. Where did you live, cannot remember.
Marilyn Noall
About this weekend. What an influence you must have been on the other girls!!!! did you drink water? Reading between the lines I don't think so, it sounds like you didn't know where the kitchen was to find the water.
Denise Horton (née Wellbeloved) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Western Australia, Australia
Wednesday, July 09, 2003 at 08:42:45 (UTC)
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PAUDIE & SUE
Many congratulations to you on your engagement! It's been such a lovely love story and I know you will both be very happy. I assume one of you will be making a move - presumably Paudie is moving to Perth? Also I assume that the whole of the GNR will be invited to the wedding? Let me know so I can buy my hat in time please!
Fiona Gayther (née Ferguson) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
United Kingdom
Wednesday, July 09, 2003 at 08:04:12 (UTC)
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Paudie and Sue
Congradulations....We may not know each other but to me it seems that you are two very good friends which I met on the GNR and I wish you all the love and blessings that two people can receive. Madeleine
Madeleine Luckin (née Bekker) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Johannesburg, South Africa
Wednesday, July 09, 2003 at 06:24:47 (UTC)
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The happy couple !
Paudie Coughlan and Sue Forde
Sue, Paudie
Congratulations - may you always have the luck of the Irish !
Arthur
Arthur Steevens [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stockport, United Kingdom
Wednesday, July 09, 2003 at 06:09:55 (UTC)
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Paudie & Sue
Brilliant Stuff!
All good wishes,
Jilly
Jill Aplin [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
South Africa
Wednesday, July 09, 2003 at 05:57:06 (UTC)
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Alix
That's a great thing you've done with the children and the calendars. Well done.
I went through the 'avocado pear' thing again at Herdsman last night. Tsk.
Is that June Dobson the dancing teacher you're talking to? I wonder if she's still wearing the medal she must have got from teaching all of us in Kitwe?
Marilyn
Marilyn Noall (née Shooter) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Western Australia, Australia
Wednesday, July 09, 2003 at 05:31:50 (UTC)
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Paudie and Sue
Congratulations on your engagement.
The GNR cupid works.
Good luck and best wishes.
Marilyn
PS: Looking forward to some photos.
Marilyn Noall (née Shooter) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Western Australia, Australia
Wednesday, July 09, 2003 at 05:20:32 (UTC)
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Hi Authur,
I have a photo I want to send you, I can't seem to get your e-mail as there seems to be a problem. Please advise.
Thanks
Philip Pain [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Eshowe Kwazulu Natal, South Africa
Wednesday, July 09, 2003 at 05:15:47 (UTC)
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Paudie and Sue!
C O N G R A T U L A T I O N S!
(do i get a finder's fee?)
This is a first for the GNR, innit?
I am on my way across the Atlantic to the California Republic to see mum and dad. Off to the station now to catch a train to the airport... it is 05:17 here in Amsterdam.
Hartelijke groeten...
Dave Cooper
Founder of the Great North Road website
Dave Cooper [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Amsterdam, Nederland
Wednesday, July 09, 2003 at 03:31:28 (UTC)
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ENGAGEMENT ANNOUNCEMENT
Paudie Coughlan and Sue Forde are extremely delighted and happy to announce their engagement to be married. We are aiming for a December wedding.
And thanks to the GNR for putting us in touch with each other again and so making it all possible.
Paudie and Sue.
Paudie Coughlan [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Midleton Co Cork, Ireland
Wednesday, July 09, 2003 at 01:09:21 (UTC)
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Arthur
re: Abe Bekker
I seem to remember that Abe represented his country in the 1954 Empire Games.
Bill Hunt [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Widenham, Natal, South Africa
Tuesday, July 08, 2003 at 19:42:07 (UTC)
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I have just received a copy of 'Land of the Long Grass', from Mary Marina Maxwell in Australia. At first glance it looks very interesting. After reading it I will add it to my small treasured collection of books about NRZam.
I have, among others, 'The Africa House' by Christina Lamb, the story of Sir Stewart Gore-Brown and 'Jungle Pathfinder' by Kathaleen Stevens Rukavina, the story of Chirupula Stephenson.
Cheers - Doug
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Tuesday, July 08, 2003 at 18:33:57 (UTC)
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Linda re: Alice Springs
Imagine you are in the Great Karoo, South Africa - thats Alice Springs although quite a large town.
Made famous by Neville Shute's book " A town like Alice"
My knowledge is limited to a refueling stop at the airport - flight between Cairns & Perth.
regards
Bill
Bill Hunt [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Widenham, Natal, South Africa
Tuesday, July 08, 2003 at 18:18:11 (UTC)
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Hi all..
This is not really germane, but I would like to say I have been having a wonderful time running an art workshop with young teenagers from wartorn countries such as the Sudan, Afghanistan, Iraq,Iran etc...I am helping them create a calender with their paintings , the subject is their perception of what peace means to them....speaking to one of the boys from Sudan, I mentioned that I too was born in Africa...(Zambia) he then replied with a huge grin and said " I know where Zambia is.." I thought how nice it is to talk to someone who knows where Zambia is without having to explain to them where it is.....
Ali
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Tuesday, July 08, 2003 at 12:32:36 (UTC)
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June Dobson
Can you please email me again....I sort of deleted your email before I got to answer you..ooooops
Peter Deilissen
It was a pleasure meeting you on Saturday night...thanks John and Rosemary for a great evening..
Ali
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Tuesday, July 08, 2003 at 12:18:03 (UTC)
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Baribee
Well, all I can say is "I'm older but only slightly!" Please don't apologise to Clive. He's only just got the hang of the email so internet is still to be discovered.
Arthur
I love the photo of my cousin's birthday. Those bows. Pam now lives in Pretoria, one of her daughter's is here in Perth; Russell lives in Portugal; Neville is a great jeweller in Dallas and Aunty Maud lives in Umhlanga. Joan is in Lusaka but always here, there and everywhere and Antony in Perth too. How spread out we all are.
Did you notice how many titles Eddy Malan held? Those photos are great, Arthur.
Marilyn
Marilyn Noall (née Shooter) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Western Australia, Australia
Tuesday, July 08, 2003 at 05:28:15 (UTC)
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I am posting this message on behalf of Bill McDonald.
Auction for Rhodesians Worldwide Magazine
We are running an online auction with the proceeds going towards the Rhodesian's Worldwide magazine. This auction is to start July 21st, 2003 for 10 days and can be accessed by a banner link on the front page of www.Rhodesiawassuper.com.
Up for auction will be an autographed flag and copy of The Great Betrayal from Ian Smith, an autographed CD from John Edmonds, a Rhodesian Land Tenure map, Rhodesian Rugby Jersey ,Rhodesian custom embroidered polo plus more.
Winner takes all.
Rhodesian's Worldwide magazine has been bringing news to us for the past 19 years, please consider supporting this in order for it to continue for many more.
Sincerely
Bill McDonald
Rhodesiawassuper
www.Rhodesiawassuper.com
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Monday, July 07, 2003 at 23:50:09 (UTC)
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Oi Baribee
Rack off, if you're trying to cut in here boet, watch your step, Newcastle ain't that far away for me to come over and donner you good. Smooth Geordie Bliksem. I'm also looking for someone to try out my Zambian katty on which Heather sent over to me.
I knew all the time which bun was Marilyn, I'd recognise those legs anywhere. I was being polite, obviously Marilyn hadn't had her roots done in time for that do. And it was Cherie Blair that was putting me off heading that way first, come to think of it Barrie, you can be the decoy.
And also I seem to remember not so long ago you got yourself hooked up on BT broadband and were promising to deluge me with some photographs. Is it the dry season over your way? Vic Falls dried up completely? I don't suppose you have a map of Livingstone do you, or have you used that for firewood too? I've heard about you Geordies keeping coal in the bath.
Philip
I had a look tonight for a photo of A Bekker, I haven't found any up to now.
Perhaps you were too busy sat on your bum having looked at that sappy pic of the Knappies prancing around, and you missed the photo I posted of your boet in the boxing ring with a few others back then. In that photo there's an "A Bekker" from Roan - is that him? Do you know what year he achieved his Northern Rhodesian colours for boxing?
Here's a few more pics I found that you, Marilyn, Mike and Bill might like to take a look at as some of the names seem to fit.
By the way Philip - Denise Horton (Wellbeloved) is and has been a member of the GNR for some time now.
I dunno where she's gone though, all the Nkana Kitwe girls seem to have gone very quiet, and a few Lusaka ones too. Oh and there's one from Broken Hill.
Arthur
Arthur Steevens [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stockport, United Kingdom
Monday, July 07, 2003 at 23:37:07 (UTC)
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JANET WALKER
I received your e-mail, but cannot reply because the e-mail address you entered does not work. Please send me a message with your correct current e-mail address.
Thanks.
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Monday, July 07, 2003 at 23:21:13 (UTC)
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Gill Main
Thanks for your efforts.
Owen Thomas [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Henley on Klip, Gauteng, South Africa
Monday, July 07, 2003 at 21:07:46 (UTC)
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Hi all
I didn't make it back to the G.N.R. after bowls yesterday ( must have been something that was served for luch made me so tired )
I had another chat to Bruce Henley and I think I got it right this time (he didn't live in Kitwe)
Bruce was born in Lusaka in 1949, He can not remember the name of his primary school (he had the same lunch as me)
He went to Gilbert Renne and grew up in Lusaka untill 1970. He then moved to Ndola untill he left for S.A. in 1977
Bruce's brothers Clive and Desmond are also here in S.A.
Friends Bruce would like to hear from, amongst others are
Bruce Vevers
Viv (Johnny) Jenkison
Paul Craige
Hennie Greyling
Gordon Wadey
James Warner
I am sorry if I spelt the names wrong but if you are out there you know who I am talking about.
Cheers for now,
Philip Pain [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Eshowe Kwazulu Natal, South Africa
Monday, July 07, 2003 at 18:27:26 (UTC)
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Owen
Just spoken to Ian Meyrick's son - his Dad is due back tomorrow and will phone me (he has just been to Africa). Sorry, I meant Brian Hughes (not Jones). Am sure Mrs Querl will remember lotsa stuff about Murundu. Also am sure Charalambous must have an e-mail address in Muf - Johnny Moss still works for them.
Gill Main [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Aberdeen, Scotland
Monday, July 07, 2003 at 18:20:21 (UTC)
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Owen
The Querls are still in Murundu, well Mrs, Deidre and Karl. I learnt this from Brian Jones who works for Charalambous - spoke to him on the phone just before Xmas when he was in the UK. Unfortunately, do not have an e-mail address for him. Hang on, have Ian Meyrick telephone number in Wales, will give him a buzz and see if he can give me an e-mail address. Speak to you soon.
Gill Main [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Aberdeen, Scotland
Monday, July 07, 2003 at 17:44:00 (UTC)
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Hi Barrie:
Yep, I figured it all out. I am 50yrs old, decrepid with a warped sense of humour as the only thing keeping me afloat at this point. Seriously, thanks to all, and I mean ALL, the folks who took the trouble to email me privately about this. Just to set the record straight, I am not addicted to Solpadene. Cannot imagine taking more than the 2 at a time I do take as it gives me quite a buzz. My heart goes out to those struggling with it though. I read up so much about it, that it astounded me, to be honest.
Now to something entirely different and totally ungermane yet again...
NORTHERNERS IN AUSTRALIA:
My husband has been asked to consider going to Alice Springs on behalf of the University of Texas here. It is long and complicated, but to do with the high tech industry (or lack of) in Alice Springs. My question is - can anyone tell us anything about Alice Springs? Are we nuts to even consider this? Our kids would be the biggest consideration here. 16yrs old and 13yrs old. Would this be like being offered a job to go from Lusaka to Kapiri Mposhi? No offense intended fellow Zambians, but you know what I mean here. We know nothing about the area, although we will, of course, research it thoroughly. Just thought if we could get some feedback from people living in Australia, it may carry more weight. Please email me privately about this. Good...bad... we would like to hear your thoughts please, and would value your opinions. Thanks a lot.
Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Monday, July 07, 2003 at 15:59:02 (UTC)
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Marilyn,
I had already picked you out as the one I fancied most, before I knew it was you. I hope you are still as georgeous, appologies to your spouse.
Today I went into my local builders merchants to get some timber, wouldnt have to buy it if I was still at the Zambezi saw mills!! I mentioned Zambia, and low and behold, the assistant, whom I have known for a long time, said "born there" " dad is still out there". His name is Stephen Hindmarsh and he was born in Mufilera hospital in 1971, His Dad, Edward Hindmarsh is still about in Kitwe, (he is involved in thermal imaging). His sister is coming out to Zambia in August with her children to see grandad. If any one knows him, Tell him I am in contact with his son. his son has only just got the internet available via his Digibox 0n his TV so I am going to get him and his sister who is already on the net, to join the GNR.
LINDA, Did you ever get sorted re the Solpadene??
Regards to everyone,
Baribee.
Barrie Braidford [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Newcastle upon Tyne, England
Monday, July 07, 2003 at 15:42:28 (UTC)
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Hi Marilyn,
Another face I rcognise is Derek Crawford who used to drive a Citroen Big Six and went on to become an early Kwacha millionaire.
Mike
Mike Wilson [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Dawlish, Devon, United Kingdom
Monday, July 07, 2003 at 12:32:58 (UTC)
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Philip
When you see Bruce again say hi from me as well.
I can't remember when I last saw Bruce but it must have been in the late 60's or early 70's
Hartley Heaton [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Binfield, Berkshire, United Kingdom
Monday, July 07, 2003 at 09:40:10 (UTC)
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Mike,
I think you're right. Polly's workshop does ring a bell. That's 'Mrs Robbie' in the photo. Just a name here and there and it all comes back. I'd like to know who else is in the photo.
Thanks, Mike.
Marilyn
Marilyn Noall (née Shooter) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Western Australia, Australia
Monday, July 07, 2003 at 09:28:14 (UTC)
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Boys 'n Girls -
The book "Tick Bite Fever" was received in my eager hands late last week and, having gone by the write up on it, I was a little disappointed to find that there are only 2 chapters of the author's early life in Zambia. The rest takes place in Kenya.
I did think it may have been in equal parts - however, it is readable and entertaining with a few guffaws along the way! Next time I'll wait until I have it before I comment ...
Gill - I havent forgotten you but if no joy with the butcher man, perhaps I will have to admit defeat - for the time being.
Regards
Kris
Kristien E. Massie (née Mostert, formerly Van Woenssel) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
United Kingdom
Monday, July 07, 2003 at 08:52:37 (UTC)
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Dynasty won the Vodacom July as I predicted he would In January. Last year's winner Ipi Tombe won her first start at Churchill Down's in the USA and prepares for the Arlington Million. Nice to know that a Rhodesian bred thoroughbred is ranked top of the world.
Chris Swart [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Kitwe, Zambia
Monday, July 07, 2003 at 07:56:45 (UTC)
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Hi Marylin,
I beieve the man with the glasses sitting in front of your mother was Frank Robbins. His son Ken is in the crowd on the lefthand side of the photo. Rita Close is standing behind Frank's wife Emily. Is this photo to do with Polly's Workshop or Mindola dam. As there is another couple sitting in front could this be along service award?
Regards, Mike
Mike Wilson [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Dawlish, Devon, United Kingdom
Monday, July 07, 2003 at 06:39:49 (UTC)
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Heather,
I learned to sew on an old Singer too. It had a foot treadle thingey that you had to work to move the needle up and down. Always reminded me of playing the organ! That's going back a few years. I'd love a Sing now as they are very popular. People are making them into coffee tables. The last time I used it it caught fire and of course my mother was not happy. My fault of course.
My Bernina just doesn't have the same charisma!
Marilyn
Marilyn Noall (née Shooter) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Western Australia, Australia
Monday, July 07, 2003 at 05:18:21 (UTC)
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Arthur,
No! That's not me in the white trouser suit. Looking at the photo, I'm the third 'bird' from the right. The bloke with the beer stands between me and the Cherie Blair look-a-like. I wonder who she is. That's my cousing Joan in the centre of the photo with her hands resting on the obviously guests-of-honour. I thought Philip at least would have some ideas. anyone else?
You can't have any photos of the weekend because I was very green about the gills on the Saturday. It had nothing to do with the champagne and wine consumed the Friday night because, as you know, Great North Girls just don't consume copious amounts of alcohol. So, it must have been the water. Yup, definitely the water - we should have drunk water instead of wine and champagne! I haven't laughed so much for years.
Marilyn
Marilyn Noall (née Shooter) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Western Australia, Australia
Monday, July 07, 2003 at 05:01:16 (UTC)
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Hi Arthur,
thanks for the pictures my family will enjoy having the one with my brother, I don't know anyone in the second pic. but I am sure Arnold's wife Maggie will know. I sent her an e-mail last night about Abie Bekker who I think was one of my brother's main boxing rivals as the both fought in the same weight division. If as you go through your collection of Rhokana Reviews I think you will come accross many mentions of his amature boxing career, he also achieved his Northern Rhodesian colours for boxing.
You missed the train Arthur, go back to Marilyn's instructions of where to look for her on the photo.
Marilyn
was I right about the Wellbeloved girls and where they lived?
Cheers for now
Philip Pain [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Eshowe Kwazulu Natal, South Africa
Monday, July 07, 2003 at 04:44:23 (UTC)
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The Sting of the Sungununu
Six months of searing
Dry heat
Dry brown dusty earth
Rains finally pour in torrents
Brown water rapidly filling
Meandering through
Gaping crevices of parched earth
The sweet smell of the first rains
Trillion insects suddenly
Burst into dizzying activity
Crawling, singing, flying
On the ground and in sky
Hissing and buzzing
Tiny, small, and large
Black, green, red, white insects
All lovely colors in between
Lone, pairs, many and numerous
Hissing herds of the sisinya
The tiny black sungununu
One of them
Roams the village soil
Alone
In search of food victims
Pestle and Mortar pounding
Mother wearily places
Bare bottomed baby on the ground
Baby babbles playing mouthing
The soil that is everywhere
Baby suddenly shrieks in gasps
Cries in sudden bursts
Baby just breast fed mother wonders
What could be the matter?
Mother inspects carefully
Baby’s bare bottom
Locates a tinny bump
The tell-tale sign
Of the secret sting of the
Tiny black Sungunu ant
Mwizenge Tembo [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Virginia, United States
Monday, July 07, 2003 at 02:18:38 (UTC)
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Heather,
The pictures of the Kafue are wonderful. I miss the distinctive sweet smell of Zambian/African/tropical fresh river water. We have a friend who lives by a river here. We went fishing yesterday. Its just not the same. I couldn't take the fish home to eat it. We had to throw the fish back in for fear of the massive farm chemical farmers use here. My last fishing picnic at Kafue was memorable. My family and our neighbors went for a picnic and fishing just behind the motel at Kafue. Thats when my four year old son launched his fishing line behind me and lodged his hook on the back of my shirt. We laughed so hard as everyone screamed that "he had caught a big one" as my wife gently tried to remove the hook without ruining my shirt. The sunset was a beatiful glow as fishermen in canoes paddled by. I will see if I have pitcures from that day.
Mwizenge Tembo [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Virginia, United States
Monday, July 07, 2003 at 02:09:03 (UTC)
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To Mary Fisher
June 13th 1953 you were a flower girl at our Wedding your Father gave my wife away and the reception was
held in the garden of your house in Luanshya. Her name at that time, was Ida Fossett and was a Nurse at the Roan Antelope hospital. She would like to get in touch with you she felt very close to your Mother and Father, contacting them each year.
Hoping to hear from you.
Albert Calderbank [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Castlegar, British Columbia, Canada
Monday, July 07, 2003 at 00:51:03 (UTC)
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Hi Arthur,
Following on from your map which showed the Great North Road, I was reminded of this photo which was taken the year of the Oppenheimer jewel robbery, 1956 or 57. The trip was from Kitwe to Pretoria with a load of 'Phlomax' concrete pipes for testing at the SA Bureau of Standards. The pipes were being made in Luanshya under licence and were superb with a glass and graphite lining. I had an African co-driver who had not been outside the Copperbelt and we stayed in this hotel, 'The Great North Road Hotel' in Pietersburg (amongst others). It was a great trip.
Kind Regards,
Mike Wilson
Mike thanks for the brill photo, I'm sure we'd all like to hear about the trip, how about it? - Arthur
Hi Arthur
Here is the photo I was talking about.
My mum and I are in this photo, mum standing behind the gent with the glasses on and I next to her (next to the man with the beer glass). I don't recall the event at all and I wonder if any other Kitwe-ites on the GNR might see anyone they know.
As I said earlier, you're a paunk so from whence cometh the "Sarky Arthur?" Come on, tell all.
Regards
Marilyn
Marilyn
I read with interest about your little get together the other weekend, epecially the bit where you said you were all discussing me. Where's my photos?
Now, there's no secret about where I got the "Sarky" - Our founder Mr Cooper got a little prickly after I told somebody that the recipe they had just sent in was not going to beat another one submitted a few days beforehand, by you know who from his Ma - this was sometime in August 2001 from memory. I was only trying to be helpful and I don't understand why he called me that. You can always tell when Dave's in a prickly mood, he will usually call you a name or sometimes will write a very lengthy and verbose message on the board. I suppose I'd feel the same way if I had to go visit the USA and eat "weiners" for a couple of weeks. (A USA substitute wors). Not unlike a Franco-Germanic sausage - they eat them all the time in Amsterdam).
Marilyn, thanks for the photo, you will notice there's a great bunch of blokes wearing glasses, and almost all of the gents have a beerglass in their hand. As there are at the most two buns, maybe three, I'd have given chase to in the pic I suppose that narrows it down a little. The one in the white trousersuit I'd head for first. (I have a sort of blonde attraction going back years).
Am I right?
Arthur
Philip Pain, Maureen Harrison (Steyn)
Take a look at this pic
Philip, another one for you and also Bets McCallum - maybe.
Both pics from a 1956 Rhokana Review
Arthur Steevens [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stockport, United Kingdom
Sunday, July 06, 2003 at 23:13:53 (UTC)
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Gary re:Hennie Bekker
The Bekker Family were our nextdoor neighbours in King George Avenue Mufulira.
A very talented family with diverse skills.
As a very young child, Hennie took to the piano like a duck to water & was always practicing.
I believe his mother was the catalyst in nurturing his abilities.
He became a world renowned artist not only for his playing skills, but also for his brilliant musical arrangements for radio, tv & live concerts.
Abe, his younger brother, was an exceptional amateur Bantamweight boxer.
I believe that he held the Rhodesian & South African Bantamweight Titles for quite a few years.
He also represented the Federation at the Empire Games, narrowly missing a gold medal in a split decision bout.
I belonged to his father’s boxing gymnasium in Mufulira & often sparred with Abe.
He was a very good looking lad, popular with the lasses, & his unmarked features attested to his lightning hand speed & defensive skills. A veritable Cassius Clay in a Bantamweight frame!
He packed a punch that often ended a bout in the first round.
I never ever volunteered to spar with Abe!
Their father (also Hennie) was one of my mentors during my engineering training – a wonderful person of great integrity & extremely proud of his kids.
regards
Bill Hunt [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Widenham, Natal, South Africa
Sunday, July 06, 2003 at 16:56:53 (UTC)
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phillip,
when you speak to bruce please pass on my howzit.
i last saw him at a huge party at hannes myberg's place in durbs in 19don'tremember. 80's
i do remember he was loaded and kind of smushed his car into an embankment on the way out.
he was gene pecker's boyfriend in lusaka a hundred years ago and i remember him fondly.
see some people do post, only not daily. lol
doron.
doron grill [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Sunday, July 06, 2003 at 14:17:59 (UTC)
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OWEN
Sorry - Shaun doesn't remembr the street name but thinks it was house number 15 (!). Asked him to try and find out. Will get back to you.
Bridget
Bridget Billany [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Blackburn, Lancashire, England
Sunday, July 06, 2003 at 13:27:48 (UTC)
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Thanks for the welcome dave. does any one remember when the chingola bridge was washed away in the early 50s ??. dad took some 16mm film on the sunday after it happened, I have now got on video tape. I need some back ground on it.Did it happen often ?? or was it a one off. Thanks Barry
Barry Morton [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Brisbane, Australia
Sunday, July 06, 2003 at 11:41:55 (UTC)
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Dave Cooper
OK, OK, OK, seeing the story on the Nkana map explains why you did not like my loose definition of CAD.
Apologies Maestro.
Owen Thomas [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Henley on Klip, Gauteng, South Africa
Sunday, July 06, 2003 at 11:35:21 (UTC)
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Garry Brassington.
Saw your posting re the music of HENNIE BEKKER. I have a few of his CDs myself and enjoy them very much.
Growing up in Mufulira , with a musician father who played in bands with Hennie, I often heard him play. Another musician playing with them at the time was Eddie Payne on trumpet. Eddie later turned up touring with Mickey Most and the Playboys, this time on Drums.
Years later I saw Eddie playing trombone in one of the night clubs in Salisbury. In a recent posting on the GNR regarding Mickey Most's death someone thought that
one of his band members was from Ndola, but no, it was Eddie from Muf.
Back to Hennie. You should check out his website at www.henniebekker.com where you, and anyone else who wishes, can order his goood music on-line. It's a good site with a wealth of information about his musical accomplishments. He has recently performed live for the first time in many years, but unfortunately for me he lives in the East and I on the West Coast of Canada, so I'm not likely to get to his concerts.
Also, of interest to sports fans, Hennie's younger brother Abe was a first class amateur boxer, competing for NR at both Empire and Olympic Games in his heyday, the 50's.
Well Garry, thats my five cents worth. As a regular lurker on the GNR I must say how much I enjoy the banter and pictures of NR/Zam. Cheers for now.
Stevet Taylor.
North Vancouver, BC, Canada.
Steve Taylor [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
North Vancouver, Canada
Sunday, July 06, 2003 at 09:06:53 (UTC)
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Debbie et al,
Thank you Debbie... but read the text on the web page where this map is located on the GNR. I think I remember telling people what this was. The map was "rescued" by me from Kitwe Boy's High School on the eve of Independence, 1964. I had it all these years since. Then I noticed it disintegrating (acidic paper), so I digitised it into AutoCAD to preserve it for the future.
No one must assume that I created the original! This was the work of the Federal Printer in Salisbury, the same people who did the other Copperbelt maps, and probably the Federal map as well. You can see it in the fonts and colours used, and in the way the maps were created.
The following explanation is meant for those who do not know what digitising is... if you know already, no need to post a message or send me an email saying you do... I know there are people who know this stuff already... (I've met some of them)...
Digitising is not the same as scanning. With digitising, you attach the map to a large digitising electronic tablet, and you use a complex pointing device. Then you create the same scale the map uses... in this case Mercator grid (I think), and you enter the coordinates of the map... so what is on screen and disk matches what is on the tablet. Then you go over with the pointing device every bit of geometry on the map, entering each X and Y coordinate (no Z needed, since it is 2D). The more coordinates per line you enter, the more accurate the representation on screen and disk. Then you complete the geometry on screen and disk, and you add the fills, text, and colours. This process is labour instensive and time consuming, as you can imagine.
When the map is entered, you add links embedded into the map to photo images of places on the map. On the Nkana-Kitwe map, as you pass your mouse over the map on screen, when the cursor changes to a hand means this is an image of that place on the map. Click the cursor at that moment, and you will be taken you to the location of the image of that place as it is stored on the GNR web suite.
When you are finished with the digitising work, you create a DWF (drawing web format) of the DWG (AutoCAD database) so that the map can be displayed correctly in a browser on the web. Then you add the DWF location to the HTML code.
Like making a melktert. Or changing rings on your Norton.
Hartelijke groeten...
Dave Cooper
Founder of the Great North Road website
Dave Cooper [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Amsterdam, Nederland
Sunday, July 06, 2003 at 09:04:40 (UTC)
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Hello Everyone,
I just want to let you all know that I picked up my Rhodesia and Nyasaland map from the Reproduction company and it is truly fabulous! I also want to thank Dave Cooper for helping me locate the Nkana/Kitwe map on the GNR site. It is an amazing work of art and I recommend for everyone to take some time to view it, if you haven't already done so. It is great.
Keep up all the good work. It is a very enjoyable website and offers so much!
Debbie Stewart [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Kamloops, British Columbia, Canada
Sunday, July 06, 2003 at 05:02:04 (UTC)
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Hi all,
I have been away on a bowls week end and was chatting to one of my nighgbours who I have known for several years and only just found out that he is an ex Northern Rhodesian.
His name is BRUCE HENLY and was born in Lusaka and later lived in several other towns including Kitwe untill he left. I will chat to him again today and get more details, he unfortunatly does not have a computer but I will assist him. ( It is amazing Bruce and I often have a chat over over a Castle at the bowling club and I never realised tha we came from the same neck of the woods. )
Will post later today after bowls
Cheers for now
Philip Pain [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Eshowe Kwazulu Natal, South Africa
Sunday, July 06, 2003 at 04:20:18 (UTC)
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Heather Chalcraft.
Re: Hennie Bekker (ex Muf.)- African Trilogy music.
Phew! Just in time - managed to get the "only" last two tapes left in the shop this morning. They are "The Smoke That Thunders" and "Temba" albums. Just let me know safest way to get them to U?
Brasso.
Gary Brassington [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Banbury, Oxon., United Kingdom
Saturday, July 05, 2003 at 21:53:30 (UTC)
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Barribee
Massage board! I love it! I had a Hollander friend in Swaziland called Koes Rijkenberg who used to sink 3 bottles of Old Brown Sherry every day. His Swazi name was 'Old Brown'.
Owen is making a map of Murundu so if anyone can remember who lived on what number plot, please contact him. Will anybody who knows the whereabouts of Derek or Shaun Frankham kindly ask them if they could remember their plot number and send it to Owen. A sketch of the area and or neighbours names and plot numbers would be even better.
Cheers - Doug
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Saturday, July 05, 2003 at 21:07:57 (UTC)
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NORTHERNERS
Today, 5th July, is the 150th anniversary of the birth of Cecil John Rhodes. And this weekend is what used to be Rhodes and Founders weekend, but is now called Heroes and Unity. And for once, it is not freezing cold.
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Saturday, July 05, 2003 at 14:09:23 (UTC)
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Hi
This may have been broadcast before but here it is again. There is a web site http//www.sareunited.co.za which has details of schools and other educational establishments in SA and I've seen some Zim there as well. You can reister your details and find other schoolmates who have registered. Another way to find people.
Cheers
Owen Thomas [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Henley on Klip, Gauteng, South Africa
Saturday, July 05, 2003 at 12:35:48 (UTC)
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N O R T H E R N E R S!
Just a reminder... tomorrow is the international hacker's contest, the BBC reports this is:
"...to see 6,000 websites defaced in six hours and will award points to hackers for the types of sites they manage to vandalise..."
Technological advancement constantly never ceases to amaze me, from vector-graphics displayed on the world wide web to website defacement! Hurrah!
Veuillez-agréer, mes salutations le plus distingué...
Dave Cooper
Founder of the Great North Road website
Dave Cooper [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Amsterdam, Nederland
Saturday, July 05, 2003 at 10:58:59 (UTC)
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N O R T H E R N E R S!
My thanks to Linda Dore for providing the best source of wors for me in the Los Angeles area:
European Deluxe Sausage Shop in Beverly Hills. This is the most convenient for me. This sounds more like my pompous style! You pay for what you get, I reckon.
Also thanks to Ken for suggesting other shops, however, Orange County is a bit too far in the other direction.
Now I can really surprise mum and dad with a proper braai! Thanks Linda, I will opbel the BH people this arvo.
I did not bother to search, as I figured someone in the southern California area must have personal experience. On the other hand, many people, like my mum, make their own wors. But I am not so sure she had a fresh batch, since this is a surprise for her.
Wij zullen een lekker en bijzondere braai hebben!
Bedankt iedereen!
Dave Cooper
Founder of the Great North Road website
Dave Cooper [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Amsterdam, Nederland
Saturday, July 05, 2003 at 09:25:22 (UTC)
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MEG RYBICKI,
Ofcourse I remember your mum, she was one of my favourite people at the Hubert Young Hostel, she was beautiful and very kind, (to me anyway). Kindness was not a trait shown by many of the staff at the hostel. Ask her if she remembers Miss Lyons, Miss Harris, MIss Van Niekirk or Mrs Nixon whom I believe was Portugese,(She was also disposed to kindness). Where is your mum now?? And as to my previous message below yours on the board, has she any idea what became of the Andersons of the hostel??
Give Her my very best wishes, She may remember me as the little English boy who had a heart complaint, and whose father died very suddenly, June 1953. I was whisked away never to return.
alll the best to you and yours,
Regards barribee.
Barrie Braidford [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Newcastle upon Tyne, England
Saturday, July 05, 2003 at 07:48:55 (UTC)
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Dave Cooper,
Try "Where to buy S.A. goods in North America" at
http://stathakis.spidee.net/rsa/sastuff-usa.html
John Pringle [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Atlanta, Georgia, United States
Saturday, July 05, 2003 at 03:16:39 (UTC)
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I have recently registered with greatnorthroad, and apparently Heather lived next door to us before I was born, (in Fir Road in Woodlands I was born in 63), my mum Pamela Rybicki nee Paget taught at Lusaka Boys, and lived in the Hubert Young hostel, does anyone else remember her? She then taught at Woodlands school until l977 when we left Zambia, and carried on teaching, for her sins, way past retirement age in England. We moved toIreland in 1991, my brothers Anton and Ed live in Coventry and Capetown respectively, after the first time I logged on to the site pre 2000, Siobhan Watson with whom I started school at Lusaka convent in l969 contacted me, and we have remained in touch by email ever since. I work on a voluntary basis with an asylum seekers support group in south Donegal, we have loads of Zimbabweans living here now, and most of them being genuinely in fear of returning to Zim have obtained residency in Ireland. I get to eat quite alot of pap and relish that way, and listen to some good music, and have also found some enterprising South Africans here who make biltong. Not quite the same as the Greek butchers used to at Woodlands shops in the seventies, are there any other ex-neighbours of ours out there? Apart from voluntary work we grow organic vege in a polytunnel, (Irish weather being what it is) and I have a good crop of gem squash, mealies, and eggplant going, a couple of restaurants buy organic leaves and herbs from me, the rest is for as they say, personal use! Does anyone who uses the message board remember a family in Woodlands called the Francis,s, their mom Monique was French, there were 6 kids, one of them married David Morris who was a member of Lusaka Theatre Club, Siobhan Watson and I would love tofind out what happened to Margaret Francis, last heard of they went to Khartoum in l976. I have 5 children of my own, would dearly love tobring them to Zambia one day, theyve been to South Africa to see my brother Ed, he is a lecturer at UCT, becoming a full professor in Sept. My mom will be in Capetown in September, anybody who wants to contact her can do so through my email address. The photos were fantastic of Kafue Heather, they made me very nostalgic. Ciao, Meg
Meg Rybicki (formerly Margaret) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Mullanyduff, Co Leitrim, Ireland
Saturday, July 05, 2003 at 00:12:44 (UTC)
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Hi every one,
Barribee here, had a few sheries, ( its my favorite tiple) my wife wont give me any of her amerreto, (potent alnmond drink) she is presently getting inebriated, ( I am already there), Good god this massage board is good isnt it? I hope I am not one of the CORE 30 or so that Owen is rambling on about , but if I am, so be it. I lived in Mulobezi NR, My father as most of you know ,Died in Mulobezi, I have yet to make contact with any one who knew my neck of the woods in NR. Philip Pain, your story of the cotton reel tractors brought back many memories for me also, we used to have races with them at the Hubert Young Hostel in Lusaka.(Heather informs me that it is still in existence), I often wonder what happened to to the Superintendent Mrs Anderson and her two beautiful daughters Elizabeth and Judith, Surely they must still be around?? Perhaps they do not read the GNR. My nick name at the hostel was Goga, I think it means insect, as I was always very small for my age. Can any one remember a very large insect beetle called the tock tockie?? we used to tie them to our hat bands on a piece of thread and they would fly around your head. Had a great day today turned out sunny, unusual for the north east of England, had a good run out on my motor bike, now a 500 cc kawasaki enduro model. to all of you lurkers, have a go at mesaging, it is facsinating to hear from people all over the world, I really enjoy it. Nice to see Brasso back on board Thanks to all who have made this possible
Regards barribee.
Barrie Braidford [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Newcastle upon Tyne, England
Friday, July 04, 2003 at 20:44:01 (UTC)
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NORTHERNERS
Yesterday I had the dubious pleasure of going to the Kafue Game Park. It was a quick trip; in in the morning and back home before six. And I say dubious because I'm not really into flying around in small aircraft. I did take some photos and here are a few - nothing really spectacular I'm afraid as we didn't have much time there as it was business not pleasure.
We flew into Hippo airstrip which is in the northern part of the park. The real reason for the flight was to take in an official from the DCA to have the strip inspected so that commercial flights can land there.
For those that know the area, the camp that I visited is a new one in between the Lunga and Lufupa Rivers, at the confluence of the Mushingashi and Kafue Rivers.
The Kafue River from the air (a bit hazy in one of the photos - the time of the year)
Part of the park from the air
And finally on the ground
It was only the puku that were close enough to photograph although we did see plenty of other buck. There are also plenty of lion and leopard around.
And the hippos which sleep on the beach in front of the camp every day (20 or so of them) that decided to get up and go back into the river when I got within about 20 metres of them
except for this one who stood and looked at me, not moving. This is, apparently, what he does.
We have always said that every town has a Singer sewing machine and a Greek. Well, this camp has a Singer, but no Greeks. This is the type of machine I learnt to sew on when I was about 6. I wonder how many others did too?
and then a (not very good) photo of Lusaka Airport as we got back last evening. Ian Lesch, you will have seen this scene many times.
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Friday, July 04, 2003 at 10:18:23 (UTC)
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SOUTHERN CALIFORNIAN RESIDENTS,
I need to pick up some braai stuff between the Los Angeles airport and my parents' home in Long Beach. This is in the southern California area of Los Angeles County.
If you know of a source (wors, proper beer and so on), let me know---I dont want to drive hundreds of miles, so I would prefer something in the immediate area. I want to give them a surprise braai upon my arrival on this Wednesday, 9 July.
In London, there is a South African butcher near Gatwick, which makes this sort of operation easy and convenient. However, in the California Republic, I have not found large concentrated colonies of southern Africans in small areas like that, which would spawn shops catering to their cultural and culinary needs.
Bedankt.
Dave Cooper
Founder of the Great North Road website
Dave Cooper [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Amsterdam, Nederland
Friday, July 04, 2003 at 10:10:11 (UTC)
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Gary,
I bought a couple of Hennie Bekker's CD's here in Perth and my friends love them. We have 'Out of Africa' dinners and always play Hennie, Mango Groove, and several other bands from all over Africa. Also Clem Tholet but that brings back too many tears so we play those rarely. Great music though.
Marilyn
Marilyn Noall (née Shooter) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Western Australia, Australia
Friday, July 04, 2003 at 09:42:19 (UTC)
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Arthur
You've done it again. Fantastic maps. I noticed Kapiri Mposhi there and remembered the first time I tasted Pepsi. My uncle, Eddy Denovan, piled us all in his car and drove us to Kapiri just to buy us all Pepsi's.
I have just got back from a 'girls' weekend away. Three of us were from Kitwe and one from Zim. What a great weekend we had. I don't know whether it's our backgrounds, upbringing or what, but Africans all seem to laugh a lot and generally enjoy life. The stories that were recanted.! Philip Pain's name was mentioned several times, as was Arthur, who promised to tell me how he got is nickname, and the fact that we all wanted to go to the Livingstone Lark.
We're privileged to have lived the lives we did and to have made the friends we have and continue to meet through the GNR.
Marilyn
Marilyn Noall (née Shooter) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Western Australia, Australia
Friday, July 04, 2003 at 09:40:13 (UTC)
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HENNIE BEKKER - African Tapestries!
Just an amazing find or maybe coincedence. Went shopping and spotted some cassette tapes in a local shop Called African Tapestries by Hennie Bekker. Read the introduction on the inner sleeve and lo and behold turns out Hennie born in a copper mining camp 10 miles south of Congo border in a place called Mufulira. Spent 11 years of his life discovering the magic sounds of African drummers answering each other between towns/villages at dusk (dosen't that ring familiar). He loved the smell of the earth after a rainfalland the wilderness sounds.
Over the years Hennie travelled Central, East & Southern Africa. He eventually settled in SA where he established himself as a composer & band leader. he was a self taught pianist and spent many years performing with various bands throughout Africa. Eventually he became musical director of one of Africa's largest record labels where he added a number of film, television, radio and commercial music to his list of acomplishments.
He then spent a few years in the UK and eventually moved to Canada where he recorded over 20 instrumental albums for stock music companies.
He now records "ambient music" to compliment recordings of nature sounds. hence the African Tapestries" series of tapes I picked up. The music is superb! A mix of contempary orchestrals, blended with traditional African tribal singing/music & wilderness sounds. Superb.
He has 4 albums available in the African Tapestries set and they are Temba (meaning Hope), Kusasa (meaning tomorrow) and the ultimate The Smoke That Thunders.
What a great find! and an Ex Zam too. Wern't we a nation of talent huh! Does/did anyone know Hennie Bekker?
References in the music series are:
Temba ......... AT5 201;
The Smoke That Thunders ........ AT5 202
Kikuyu ............ AT5 203
Kusasa ........... AT5 204
The music is distributed by Holborne Distributing Co. Ltd., P O Box 309T, Mt. Albert, Ontario, L0G 1MO, Canada.
Gary Brassington [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Banbury, Oxon., United Kingdom
Friday, July 04, 2003 at 09:03:35 (UTC)
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Just wondering if any one has any photos of some of the houses I used to live in. in Mufulira, H52 H119 K93.. How big were those blocks they very big to a ten year old..Havent seen them since 1955. Would be much appreciated. thanks barry
Barry Morton [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Brisbane, Australia
Friday, July 04, 2003 at 08:48:17 (UTC)
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Doug et al,
No, you WOULD know what a vector-based CAD graphics package is IMMEDIATELY if you looked at the Nkana-Kitwe map and navigated about it with Zoom and Pan.
Notice how when you zoom in on images, the resolution deteriorates into pixalised square out of focus blocks of colour or black, white and grey mess?
This doesn't happen in vector-based graphics images because the geometry of the image is, well REAL geometry. A line is a line defined in geometry, not by little square pixels.
As I said, boys, not rocket science.
I personally find this quite fantastic, that I can take a map and zoom in infinitely and never loose the image's clarity. Perhaps you don't. Go figure.
Anyway, some people enjoy it and find it cool. But some people stick with video tapes and transisters, other like dvds and digital. Whatever.
Tot straks...
Groetjes...
Hartlijke groeten...
Vriendelijke bedankt...
Mooi bly...
Geniet die dag....
Dave Cooper
Founder of the Great North Road website
KINGDOM OF THE NETHERLANDS!
Dave Cooper [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Amsterdam, Nederland
Friday, July 04, 2003 at 08:35:27 (UTC)
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Dave C -- I have to confess that I wouldn't know a "vector based based graphics map " even if it bit me on the arse .... or a CAD package either ...........
Doug
Doug Waybush [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Maryland, USA, and London, England
Friday, July 04, 2003 at 01:41:22 (UTC)
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Brasso
I always thought CAD stood for "careless artless drawing". Seriously I was being tongue in cheek. I have used Autocad and am well aware of the differences.
Ex Murundians,
I have slapped together a schematic of Murundu in Excel and sent it on to those I am in touch with. If you would like to add to it, please contact me and I will send it on. The final version will be posted to the GNR.
Owen Thomas [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Henley on Klip, Gauteng, South Africa
Thursday, July 03, 2003 at 20:33:17 (UTC)
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That BA Deal
It looks like the £299 deal is pretty much sold out. Have a look anyway though.
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Thursday, July 03, 2003 at 11:35:53 (UTC)
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Owen Thomas
Glad U have joined the GNR group. Welcome! I read your posting with interest. I was one of those a year or so ago that regularly posted on the Message Board and might add that arranged last years Banbury Bash which had in excess of 180 attendees. I suppose I am guilty of "not posting" lately but as Craig pointed out I & others do not "regrettably" have time to regularly add to the message board because of other activities which tend to take up our free time. We still do make time to read the board and see what others have to say. Keep well and enjoy. Hi to all I'm still about!!!!!
Brasso
Gary Brassington [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Banbury, Oxon., United Kingdom
Thursday, July 03, 2003 at 10:12:19 (UTC)
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N O R T H E R N E R S!
It has come to my attention that some members do not even KNOW that there is a vector-based graphics map of Nkana-Kitwe on this site.
I was gobsmacked when I found this out.
If you have not seen this map, you are missing what is the most expensive and most accurate and, in my opinion, the best piece of information on this website.
If you don't know where this map is, or how to get to it on the Great North Road website, I suspect you have not poked around on this site to find all the other cool things. The GNR is not just the message board!!!!!
If you do not know how to follow the directions on viewing this map, ask me. It is not rocket science, I promise.
Owen
I assume you are joking about MS Paint being a CAD package, right? The world's de factor CAD package, AutoCAD will not come free on your OS... it will cost you between 3,500US$ to 5,000US$ per installation.
Craig
No, in French, whether in Québec, Belgium, Switzerland, Congo, Benin, Tahiti, or wherever, "eh voila" means "eh there you are", and "et voila" means "and there you are". Both are used. It is like "hein" which is put at the end of a sentence, and is not really a word. Many Anglophones miss it when they hear French. And as in French, the "h" is not pronounced on this word, and the rest is NOT pronounced like a German or English word, but like a French, surprisingly.
Eh voila.
Tot straks...
Groetjes...
Dave Cooper
Founder of The Great North Road website
Amsterdam
Dave Cooper [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Amsterdam, Nederland
Thursday, July 03, 2003 at 08:05:46 (UTC)
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Well, well, well. resurrected one Lurker.
Lesley,
I was the "little guy" with the red hair. Still red, no grey yet, though sun etc. has left it more a brown/ginger. Of course the red was assisted by Brylcreem, Never went out without it. Those days, age counted and one only associated with ones peers, tolerated those younger (usually siblings) and gazed in wonder at those older, I met up with Nielles at Muf High in std 6, then all off to different boarding schools. I have sent Meg's e-mail address under direct post to you so the spammers and Nigerians dont get it.
Doug
Nothing on Murundu though I remember the layout but not the street names. I wil bash something together on an advanced CAD package like MS paint an circulate it. Perhaps the ex bandits can fill in the gaps.
Craig,
For a moment I thought I was getting my b***s chewed. Glad all is forgiven.
Owen Thomas [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Henley on Klip, Gauteng, Sou |
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