Northern Rhodesians Worldwide
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I have not looked at the links for a while but was surfing through one today after Dave's posting about Zambian Reunions going off the air. Looking through the political section of the Zambia-Leeds Community link, I was interested to read that Mwanawasa has now appointed Nevers Mumba as the Vice President of Zambia after dismissing the Vice President that was in office.
Quite a long time ago, I posted about Mumba, asking if anyone knew anything about him. I heard about him on a local radio station here and went to hear him preach at a charismatic church just around the corner from my house. I did not know he was involved in politics before I went to listen to him, and went out of curiosity to see why a preacher from Zambia would come all the way to Austin, Texas, to preach. Not having experienced a charismatic church service before, that was an experience that caught me off guard, but I must admit that I was quite surprised at the eloquence of Mumba and his passion to become the next president of Zambia. He was convinced, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that "God had promised him Zambia!" He said it over and over again and felt very strongly that if God had, indeed, promised him Zambia, then God would help him turn it around. I spoke with him briefly after the service, and he was really fired up about making changes. He said that he had no intention whatsoever of running for any political office in Zambia, but that he had been approached by "people in the Government" to save the country.
Since he was unsuccessful in his bid for the presidency in the last elections in Zambia, I am now intrigued by this turn of events and I will be following his progress with interest.
Footnote: This is not a political statement and not being thrown out as bait. Just a comment on the article posted in that link, as I had met Mumba and wondered about him at the time.
Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Sunday, August 31, 2003 at 22:28:52 (UTC)
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Mwizenge Tembo, thanks for your response. Flying across the Barotse Plains was, and probably is, the most beautiful sight on earth. The little 5 seater Beavers stopped at Sesheke and Senanga on their way to and from Mongu.
I see there are at least 3 of us living in or close to Washington DC. How about we get together for brunch one Sunday? If we could do it while some lucky folk are frolicking in Livingstone, so much the better!
I really don't follow Zambian politics but wonder if anyone could enlighten me as to why the Zambian Embassy on Massachusetts Ave in Washington seems to look so down at heel these days.
On nice days I walk down Mass. Ave from near the National Cathedral, where I live, and pass most of the embassies on the way down town. The Zambian Embassy used to be the home of Katherine Porter who wrote "Ship of Fools". It's a charming place but the gate to the garden is broken and the view is one of uncared for statues, non-functioning fountains and nasty old weeds! Rather embarrasing, I'm afraid.
Kind regards, Cathrine
Cathrine Nelson [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
United States
Sunday, August 31, 2003 at 22:08:31 (UTC)
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Doug.
Cathy Buckle has indeed posted her weekly letters.
Saturday 30th August: re: Voting in Council Elections.
Saturday 23rd August: re: Arrival of Summer in Zimbabwe.
I read both of them today. Try again.
June.
June Bohl (née Walker, formerly McCarthy) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Los Angeles County, California, United States
Sunday, August 31, 2003 at 22:01:33 (UTC)
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Cathy Buckle has not posted her weekly newsletter on her African Tears website for the last 2 weeks. does anyone know what is happening?
Cheers - Doug
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Sunday, August 31, 2003 at 19:35:14 (UTC)
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Owen, Paudie, Chandru,
The Masuku is the brownish, yellowish one. It has a funny shaped pip with 3 edges sticking out. The flesh is pulpy and granular and if you eat too many they seem to give you a dry throat.
The Mpundu was the purple plum-like one. Mpundu in ChiBemba means twin.
Cheers - Doug
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Sunday, August 31, 2003 at 19:29:31 (UTC)
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I think I remember the Mpundu (or similar fruit beginning with an "M") too, we had a huge tree in the front yard of our house in Chelston, although I thought the fruit was more brownish. I found them too bitter and inedible but my African friends loved them and gathered as much as they could when they came over to play. We lived opposite Chelston Primary School (great commute) and Heather, I'd appreciate a picture of our house at 41 Acacia Avenue if you have time on your return trips from the airport. We also lived at 30 Eucalyptus Avenue (pool in backyard) but that is more inaccessible from the Great East Road.
I enjoyed Fuller's book more for its narrative/descriptive aspects. Working in a difficult occupation in a sanctioned country did not make much economic sense to me. I've also read an article on The Guardian website about a trip she made back to Zimbabwe last year. This year I think she went to Mozambique but I have not read about that yet.
Chandru Krishna [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Rockville, Maryland, United States
Sunday, August 31, 2003 at 18:01:45 (UTC)
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Cathrine Nelson
I would recommend that you stay at Lyembai Hotel. I first traveled to Mongu in November 1976 as young University of Zambia graduate employed by the National Agricultural Marketing Board (NAMBOARD). I flew from Lusaka to Mongu on a twin propeller engine Zambia airways plane. What struck me about the landscape in late November was the beauty of the land; it was so green. The flood plane in front of the hotel was mesmerizing; fishermen on canoes paddling on the blue waters of the Zambezi flood plane in the backdrop of vast green meadows stretching to the horizon. I traveled in all the towns of the Western Province including Kalabo which is perched on the most Western part of the province a few miles from the boarder with Angola. I have never forgotten the delicious broiled Litapi (fish) that I ate with nshima at the Lyembai hotel the following lunch after a night at the local mosi watering hole.
Mwizenge Tembo [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Virginia, United States
Sunday, August 31, 2003 at 17:40:40 (UTC)
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Dave Cooper
I'll second your vote of thanks to Craig, Heather and Arthur. And don't forget to give yourself a pat on the back too :>)))
Owen Thomas
Your mention of musuku and mpundu. I can remember Chester Mountjoy introducing me to those fruits in Mufulira. I can remember both names, but not what they were. One was about the size of a medium plum, purple-ish skin, and a sweet-bitter taste, and grew in large trees. I think this was musuku. I think the other was a small round orange coloured fruit, with very sweet, thickish consistency flesh.
Have I got it right?
Paudie Coughlan [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Midleton Co Cork, Ireland
Sunday, August 31, 2003 at 16:29:57 (UTC)
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N O R T H E R N E R S!
I want to personally thank everyone who uses this website for their incredible patience, tolerance, manners, politesse, and good nature for keeping this website running uninterrupted for the most part for almost seven years! Only once was the site brought to a halt. The stoppage was temporary and short.
Over the years I have fought long and hard to keep the site from slipping into vitriole and inappropriate use.
Why am I telling you this now? Because occasionally I do a massive investigation of the Great North Road's components, including all links, just to make sure that I know what is going on everywhere. In my snooping around, I saw a rather sad note on the Zambians Reunion site. This is what it said:
"THIS WEBSITE HAS BEEN SUSPENDED DUE TO ABUSIVE
USAGE BY GUESTS WHO HAVE USED OUR MEMBERS'
ADDRESSES TO SPAM EMAILS AND WHO HAVE FILLED
OUR GUESTBOOK WITH INAPPROPRIATE CONTENT"
This reminded me to thank everyone here for being civilised. And to thank Craig, Arthur and Heather for standing like the the great wall of Kariba Dam against the elements!
Hartelijke groeten...
Dave Cooper
Founder of The Great North Road website
Dave Cooper [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Amsterdam, Nederland
Sunday, August 31, 2003 at 14:39:29 (UTC)
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N O R T H E R N E R S!
An interesting story on BBCi this morning regarding the installation of the first Botswana female paramount chief.
Dave Cooper
Founder of the Great North Road website
Dave Cooper [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Amsterdam, Nederland
Sunday, August 31, 2003 at 08:32:40 (UTC)
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Doug
The only place I found Toongululu was on the road to Ernie Growden's farm, near Murundu. I must admit that Philip's drawing of an elongated fruit is more like the one I saw than Heather's photo of a more rounded fruit. The photo also shows the whole fruit as red, whilst the drawing shows it tinged with red at the one end which is again more like I remember it.
Did you ever eat mpundu and musuku?
Cheers
Owen Thomas [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Henley on Klip, Gauteng, South Africa
Sunday, August 31, 2003 at 06:14:42 (UTC)
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Doug,
The Carissa or Natal plum is the nearest thing so far to what has been described and it seems unlikely that the native names to two different fruit should be so similar.
But you will note from the pictures of the cut fruit in the last posting show the plum to be red inside and out whereas you describe it as being white inside with black seeds. That is much more like the cactus Dragon fruit.
If you found your plant with fruit after a bush fire it would naturally be closer to the ground than a mature and unburned plant, so don't be put off so much by the size of the shrub.
The coastal Carissa is very spiny, but there may be inland varieties with less or no spines at all.
Chris Tamm,
I am more in favour of fruit that do not leave a bitter taste to raise the bile, so I will pass on your green Pineapples and stick to those I grow myself to a maturity that leaves me with a pleasant taste in the mouth.
Does anyone remember the van Rensberg who grew
the most delicious pineapples north of the Zambezi in the 1960s and the other chap who grew sweet bananas sold under the label of Davric Bananas - he gave away delicious Avocados if you bought his bananas as he had a long driveway to his farm out west of Lusaka lined all the way with huge Avocado trees.
Cheers Ron
Ron Clibborn-Dyer [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hong Kong SAR, China
Sunday, August 31, 2003 at 05:14:36 (UTC)
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Dear Northerners,
last weekend I went up to the Bvumba Mountains for a few days.
The trees were getting their new leaves and the colours were spectacular. The greens, yellow, reds,and my favourite, Burgundy. It really is the most spectacular time in Africa.
I was really hoping to make the Livingstone Lark, but this time it will not be. Best wishes to all and may you have a winger.
Vic Bekker [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Harare, Zimbabwe
Sunday, August 31, 2003 at 03:30:12 (UTC)
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Good morning campers here is your Sun morning chuckle.
I was on stage last night quoting my lines one of which was., "You know that diaphragm is a pain in the ass."
Someone in the audience yelled out, "You are putting it in the wrong place!"
Have a nice day Johnny.
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Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Saturday, August 30, 2003 at 23:18:53 (UTC)
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Heather
Your photo is not the Tonguloolo that Philip is talking about. It looks like it could be a type of carissa.
Ron
The carissa which is called the Natal plum or Tungulu is a bush whereas the Tongaloolo is a short shrub probably no relation at all. The nearest thing that I have seen is the dragon fruit you refered us to. Look at Philip's sketch and Heather's picture.
I will bring a bottle of Oudemeester Brandy to the lark and give it to anybody who can bring a Tungaloolo complete with fruit for me to 'bring back alive' for Philip. I think the end of September is the time we used to find them so maybe we can get photos of it and bring this story to a conclusion.
Cheers - Doug
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Saturday, August 30, 2003 at 22:15:45 (UTC)
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Cathrine Nelson
Zambia, whether for good or for bad and like the rest of the world, has moved on since the 50's and you would not find a hotel that was like the old Livingstone Hotel. However, there are some good hotels and if you take a look at the ones I have listed for the Livingstone Lark, you will find one.
I visited Mongu a few weeks ago and stayed at a very nice guesthouse which has opened recently.
However, I suggest you email me directly especially since the only way to get to Mongu is to drive there.
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Saturday, August 30, 2003 at 20:14:05 (UTC)
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Historian Puta Checkwe writes:
John Mwanakatwe was Zambia's most successful finance minister. When he left government, he went into private law practice. When he retired from that, he acted as a consultant to, among others, the World Bank and the IMF.
So here we go again. Empty statements. Instead of trying to re write the country's financial performance, why don't you back up your claim with economic facts? What exactly does "most successful mean"? Why don't you explain the reasons for the country's economic demise? You write that he was "most successful" at something or other. What? Then you write that this same success story was a consultant to the World Bank and IMF. Was this at the same time as when you accused those same organizations of driving Zambia Airways into the ground?
Still waiting for your story about the demise of Meridian.
Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Saturday, August 30, 2003 at 19:03:43 (UTC)
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Dave Cooper
Three important books on Zambia have recently been published. They are all in the autobiographical form but they tell a good story about the evolution from Northern Rhodesia to Zambia.
The first is Into Exile and Back by Simon Zukas. The most striking thing about this book is the ease with which it explains multi racial politics in Zambia. You may know that Zukas is a Lithuianian born Zambian who was quite active in nationalist politics. He weaves his family story into that of the Zambian nation quite successfully.
I have not yet read Andrew Sardanis' autobiography which is called Africa: The Other Side of the Coin. I have of course spoken with Andrew about the book and I am looking forward to reading the final product. I can say, however, this book is not for the simple minded with stereo typical "ideas" about the African continent.
John Mwanakatwe's autobiography was only launched a few days ago. It's the story of his journey as a child, student, university graduate, colonial civil servant, Northern Rhodesia's representative in London and cabinet minister in independent Zambia.
John Mwanakatwe was Zambia's most successful finance minister. When he left government, he went into private law practice. When he retired from that, he acted as a consultant to, among others, the World Bank and the IMF.
Again, I am looking forward to reading John's book
Chisanga Puta-Chekwe [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Saturday, August 30, 2003 at 18:49:37 (UTC)
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The man from SARS enquires:
What are Su Su's ?
Try Sixpences! (and for those who do not know what those were, that would be the Half Bob pieces that you would pour into the one of the two one arm bandits at the Roosaka Krub.
Pineapple anyone?
Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Saturday, August 30, 2003 at 18:16:42 (UTC)
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Good grief, it works!
A couple of years ago, so it seems, I used to haunt this site looking for references to Mongu and Livingstone, where I'd lived in the 50s and 60s. Then we needed a password to enter, I was given one (obviously) and that one extra step of effort resulted in me not bothering to come on board again. Also, most of the news seemed to be about the old Copper Belt, which I'd never visited, and Lusaka, where I'd been twice! Work too became more demanding.
I'm planning to visit family in Cape Town over Christmas and this time my daughter and I want to come to the 'real' Africa of my youth. I dug up the old password and can't believe it: Livingstone comes up time and again and even good ol', beloved MONGU!
I seek advice. Where should we stay in Livingstone that will be like the old Livingstone Hotel my parents managed in the early 50s? I know we can't hop on the Beaver and fly to Mongu, and even if we could where would we stay? Someone, tell me all about Mongu today. I lived there for 12 years and still say it's the best place on earth! If we go to Chobe will it horribly fake and fancy?
Anxiously awaiting a response, Cathrine
Cathrine Nelson (formerly Fisk) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Washington DC, United States
Saturday, August 30, 2003 at 18:12:54 (UTC)
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Well you fruit lovers - I think we can safely conclude that your Monkey Apple and Tungululu are one and the same thing and that is the Zambian sub-species of the Carissa bush known in the south as the Natal Plum. But since none of you described the nasty forked spines - it could be a spineless variety or sub-species, so there is still a need to photograph and describe specimens in some detail. Philip's artwork is accurate in that the leaves are paired as opposed to alternate, but it remains to be seen if that applies to all varieties.
Heather's photo seems to be of someone with their head in the sand next to a variegated holly spike - so lets all drink to that - Bottoms Up Heather - Nice Smile.
Now here is a good article from the web on the Natal Plum - and if you check the URL you will see some good photos of the real thing with the fruit close to the ground.
If anyone would like to send me some fresh seeds in a small zip-lock bag I would be delighted to try them here in the Chinese Temple Garden. Just let me know & I'll give you the snail mail address.
The Su Su sounds fascinating - what are the flowers like ?
Cheers Ron
http://www.floridata.com/ref/C/cari_mac.cfm
Carissa macrocarpa
Family: Apocynaceae (dogbane family)
Common Names: Natal plum
Good photos on web-site
Description
Natal plum is a dense, closely branched spiny evergreen shrub or small tree up to 20' in height. Most of the cultivated forms are much smaller, though. The dark glossy green leaves are ovate, 1-3" long, thick and leathery, and arranged in opposing pairs. Forked spines, about an inch or two long, arm the branches and the ends of the twigs. Broken twigs exude a white milky sap. Natal plum produces an abundance of white starlike flowers with five thick and waxy petals. The flowers are about 2" across and sweetly fragrant, like orange blossoms, especially at night. The edible fruit is a pretty plum shaped red berry abut 2" long which tastes like sweet cranberries. Natal plum blooms almost all year long and most of the time both flowers and fruit are present.
'Bonsai' grows in a compact mound only 2' tall. 'Prostrata' and 'Horizontalis' (Natal creeper) are low growing cultivars suitable for ground covers. 'Boxwood Beauty' is a thornless dwarf. 'Nana' is a thornless dwarf bearing flowers with spirally overlapping petals. There are many more named selections to choose from.
Location
Natal plum is native to the Northern South African province of KwaZulu/Natal. It is a popular hedge plant, widely cultivated in the New and Old World tropics.
Culture
Natal plum prefers a sandy, well-drained soil. It responds well to close pruning and is easily kept at any size. Many of the cultivars have a tendency to produce branches that revert to the species characteristics, so it may be necessary to prune frequently to prevent the cultivar from reverting completely.
Light: Natal plum does best and produces the most flowers when positioned in full sun, but it tolerates partial shade.
Moisture: Natal palm is drought tolerant.
Hardiness: USDA Zones 9 - 11. In zone 9 winters, Natal plum may freeze to the ground, but it usually comes back in spring.
Propagation: Propagate the cultivars of Natal plum from cuttings. The species may be grown from seed.
Usage
Natal plum is the perfect hedge plant. Its dense foliage makes it a good screen, and its thorns make it an effective barrier as well. Add on the deliciously fragrant blossoms and edible fruits, and it's hard to think of a better shrub for the tropical garden. Plant the larger cultivars on 5' centers for hedges and the smaller cultivars on 4' centers for foundation plantings. Natal plum is tolerant of salty soil and salt spray, too, and is therefore an excellent plant for the seaside garden, even in exposed conditions. The dwarf cultivars can be grown as container plants. Keep them outside in summer, and in a well-lit, cool and dry position in winter. Sprawling cultivars can be used as ground covers, planted on 2' centers. The fruits are made into jellies and preserves.
Features
The various cultivars of Natal plum are among the best ocean front foundation, hedge, container and groundcover plants for tropical and subtropical regions. They are very popular in South Florida. Natal plums are often grown in containers on ocean front condominium balconies. Their thick leathery leaves are not torn by wind nor bothered by salt spray.
WARNING
All parts of Natal plum are poisonous except for the ripe fruits. Even the seeds within the fruits are said to be poisonous. Natal plum should not be planted close to pedestrian traffic because of its sharp spines.
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http://roger.jouet.free.fr/photographies_fichiers/image201.jpg
Genre = Carissa Espèce = bispinosa Variété =
Nom = Carisse Famille = Apocynacées image
Good photo
Dogbane Family (Apocynaceae)
http://waynesword.palomar.edu/ecoph20.htm#natalplm
Natal plum (Carissa grandiflora), also listed as C. macrocarpa: A spiny South African shrub with milky latex sap, fragrant white flowers and showy, red fruits (berries). Although natal plum belongs to the dogbane family (Apocynaceae) with many poisonous relatives (such as Nerium oleander), the fruits are edible with the flavor of cranberries. They are made into jellies, sauces and pies. The branched spines arise from lateral buds in the leaf axils and are technically modified stems called thorns. [Spines are technically modified leaves with lateral buds in their axils.]
Good photo - fruit red inside & out
Grow Fruit in the Home Garden in Tropical Areas
WWW.NATURALHUB.COM
http://www.naturalhub.com/grow_fruit_and_nuts_in_tropical_areas.htm
CARISSA Carissa macrocarpa 'Natal Plum' A very useful plant for the home food garden, because it is a small bushy shrub with thorns and fragrant white flowers, won't form massive roots that can damage paved areas, and because it will remain fruitful even when trimmed to fit into a narrow space, such as a border. The small roundish fruit are about an inch/2.5cm wide and a bit more long. They are bright red streaked with a darker red ground color. The fruit are variable, but most are mild, somewhat sweet, sometimes slightly astringent, with small seeds in the centre and exude a harmless latex when cut. They have about the same vitamin C content as an orange.
No photo
Ron Clibborn-Dyer [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hong Kong SAR, China
Saturday, August 30, 2003 at 16:53:54 (UTC)
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Ron
Su-su's grow on a creeper. The fruit is off-white in colour and fluted with little knobbles on it. The flesh is more or less the same colour as the skin and it has pips similar to the gem squash inside. The texture of the flesh is much the same as a potato. Both the skin and the flesh are edible but they are pretty tasteless. We deep fry them in olive oil to try to get some flavour into them. When I am back in Lusaka and they are fruiting I shall take the necessary photographs.
Dawid
The Myers parrots which I had have been released back into the wild and I guess are still hanging around. We also have an African Grey Parrot which I see from time to time. I last saw it on Monday morning, sitting on the electricity cables just down the road from the house. He has been hanging around in the area for about 5 or 6 years now. They do originate from the Congo.
Doug
'Land Of The Long Grass' was an excellent book although for some reason it took me some time to read it. I have in my office a short write-up on the true history of Changa-Changa and it is very close to the book. I also posted (about 18 months ago) a photo of the remains of his house close to the Lunsemfwa River.
On Monday I bought a copy of John Mwanakatwe's autobiography which I started reading on the plane down to Jo'burg on Tuesday. But I left the book on the plane (I put it in the pocket in front of me, fell asleep and when the plane landed, I stood up, picked up my hand luggage and walked off the plane - I am starting to suffer from geriatric syndrome). Anyway, I shall buy another copy when I get back.
Havng nothing to read, I bought a book entitled 'Open Cockpit Over Africa' which I have semi-started reading. I was told about it a few weeks ago and found a copy in Exclusive Books at the Airport. I shall report on it once I have finished.
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Saturday, August 30, 2003 at 15:54:54 (UTC)
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Could this be the famed tungululu (from my archives)
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Saturday, August 30, 2003 at 15:17:57 (UTC)
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Marilyn...Yes I have seen Mars..the past few nights, what a wonderful sight, just wish we had a telescope...oh well....the girls have been rather excited....
Dawie... Alexandra Fullers book, "dont' lets go to the dogs tonight, had the same impact on me....a very visual book re the African landscape...yes the smells , tastes ect...
All.....RE the talk of native fruits of Africa, when I visited the Perth Zoo a few months ago, I was able to taste both the Marula berry and the Natal Plum, I managed to save some of the seeds, and now I have 3 plants..of which I forget...as I put them in the same pot...oh well lucky dip, I must say they were both very nice...
Ali
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Saturday, August 30, 2003 at 15:04:33 (UTC)
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Doug:
I have to make a public confession to perhaps being one of the few on the GNR who could never quite get into "Don't Let's Go To The Dogs Tonight". Tried it several times but kept drifting off. Went to the book signing/reading as I mentioned before and Fuller read it quite differently than I would have if I had not heard her own intonation. Decided to give it another try last week or so while waiting for my boys to get their haircuts at a place that has sports stuff in it and a wide screen TV. Got side tracked watching wrestling... 'nuff said... and left the book there. When I went back it was gone. I can just see some good ol' boy from Texas reading a couple of pages from it and going "HUH??!"
Quite some time back, I was talking about books we grew up with. The "Pookie" series was my favourite as a very little girl in Africa. For Christmas last year, I was delighted to receive an almost mint condition edition of "Pookie Puts The World Right." I sat down and read it straight away and it whisked me back to being a little girl. It even awakened a long buried memory of drawing a particular scene from the book when I was about 7. Funny thing, the mind.
Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Saturday, August 30, 2003 at 15:01:31 (UTC)
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N O R T H E R N E R S!
Can an EXPERT Outlook user email me privately, please? I need someone who is advanced.
Thanks
Dave Cooper
Founder of the Great North Road website
Dave Cooper [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Amsterdam, Nederland
Saturday, August 30, 2003 at 13:46:13 (UTC)
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Doug
Brace yourself for a full-on attack from west of here for uttering such frank words!
I enjoyed LETS NOT GO TO THE DOGS TONIGHT... yes, I agree about the plot, and that bloody pathetic creature of a mother... BUT, the description of the southern Rhodesian bush is so exact, I could smell it. Didn't you pick up on that?
I have not read anything African for a while, so thanks for the recommendation. People have different taste, though, so I will be the judge of the book on Zambia you recommend. (ironic alert here for the irony-impaired).
Currently I am reading a biography on Pepys and an autobiography by Mussolini... this latter is fantastic reading. He rights a crisp, masculine style. His journalistic ability shines through. The book is called MY RISE and MY FALL. Obviously the latter part is constructed with the help of an editor. Mussolini was quite the patriot.
Hartelijke groeten...
Dave Cooper
Founder of The Great North Road website
Dave Cooper [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Amsterdam, Nederland
Saturday, August 30, 2003 at 13:30:39 (UTC)
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I have finished reading Marina Maxwell's 'Land of the long grass'. What a terrific story! Dawie this is required reading for you and everyone else also.
It is at a par with the best of Wilbur Smith. It has everything, love, hate, sex, violence, romance, war, adventures by strange people in strange lands, slave-trading, hunting, witchcraft, torture, tragedy, jubilation and much more. It has delightfully caustic views of some of the missionaries who tried to force their dubious moral standards on the happily naked, fornicating, witchcrafting, hunting and slave-taking natives.
The hero, Harrison, whose African name is Changa-Changa, had to run away from South Africa after shooting a Afrikaans farmer who tried to castrate him for impregnating his wife. A good start! He travels north and after various adventures, becomes the Chief of the area between Lusaka and Fort Jameson years before these towns existed, and long before Cecil Rhodes people arrived.
He built up an army, made laws and collected taxes. He stole the beautiful, exotic, coloured wife of a coloured Portugese slave trader which caused a war between them and disturbed relations between the British and Portugese governments.
Later he married the beautiful twin daughters of a witchdoctor; a sharp move for any ruler is to get the local religious leaders on board to help to control the masses. Later he married the daughter of a black slave trader / elephant hunter who also had a private army. Another strategic move. He also romances and has a child with one of the missionaries.
Marina has a true gift. Her perception of attitudes towards people such as Changa-Changa and his children and her understanding is absolutely incredible.
The best thing is that this story is based on fact. Marina, please, please write some more, I love your stories. You are my soul-mate! Praises and Halala!
I have also recently read "Don't let's go to the dog's tonight'. Apart from the fact that it brought back memories of the 3 countries of the old Federation, it was rather boring. The writer jumps around like a grasshopper. It is more a story of a family with an mentally disturbed, alcoholic, fag puffing mother, and their battles to scratch a living. One feels sorry for the children who are left to their own devices outside while the parents get sloshed in whatever bar is handy. They lived in pretty squalid circumstances at the best of times. So there was no need to go to the dogs. They were already there.
I am presently plowing through 'African Tears' by Cathy Buckle. It is depressing reading. It could have been condensed into one chapter because although she describes a series of provocations each one is just a worse repeat of the previous one. It is the frog in the bucket of water over the fire syndrome again. Each time the water gets hotter the frog adjusts and thinks it will get cooler until in the end it gets cooked. Better to kak in the water and jump out of the bucket. The problem is to know just when to jump so you don't end up in the kak yourself. Easier said than done! 'Beyond Tears', Cathy's second book looks to be more of the same.
The one who takes the prize for repetition though is Jan Lamprecht in his book 'Government by Deception' pshycopolitics in Southern Africa, explaining why he thinks South Africa could become another Zimbabwe. I award myself the Purple Heart of Africa medal for plowing my way through this brain damagingly boring drivel. He sees all the problems in Africa as a continuation of the communist-marxist plot. It is obviously designed for the American market. He makes some interesting and thought provoking points but spoils it by stating that Bill and Hillary Clinton and Tony Blair are all marxist agents and that racism was invented by the Russians for the Africans to use against the Whites. Weird.
Ribit, Ribit - Kermit da Vryheid frog in hot water again.
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Saturday, August 30, 2003 at 12:54:54 (UTC)
|
N O R T H E R N E R S
The hand-drawn diagramme of the "monkey apple" [sic] is in fact, exactly as I remember it. Except, this diagramme lacks a scaling-object, so one is not sure how big it is. I remember it to be not much higher than my 10 year-old knee (I am now 1,96m --- NO, I shall not tranlsate that down to Ancient Anglo-Saxon measurement!). And the edible bulb is exactly in the right position and the right shape and colour.
As lads, we could have mis-named the plant. So perhaps we had heard the nomenclature "monkey apple" and so-named it.
Obviously, it is the same fruit! Good sleuthing everyone. This is the sort of stuff that I love about the collective knowledge this sort of germane discussion can produce!
Next...
Jill and I were discussing Zambian parrots privately recently. Some years back, Heather and I had a similar discussion, and she actually had a couple of Myer's Parrots in her possession (rescue operation, not capture operation). I have a great passion for psittacines, and as such I am saddened that during my entire stay in Zambia, I never saw wild parrots. Did anyone ever see Myer's Parrots or any native parrot or lovebird whilst resident in Zambia? I do remember the Congo Greys the indigenous people would sell outside of the Astra Cinema... they were caged in wire baskets and went for about 10/- each. It was my understanding that they came from the Congo, but there could have been native populations in Zambia. However, I believe our drier climate may have precluded that possibility.
Dave Cooper
Founder of the Great North Road website
Dave Cooper [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Amsterdam, Nederland
Saturday, August 30, 2003 at 12:12:42 (UTC)
|
Dawie
Philip's sketch of the tongaloolo is the one I remember. Does it look like your monkey apples? It seems to be the same. Best of luck with the approaching op.
Heather
Would you please desribe the su-su for Ron. You saw it last week while I saw it nearly 40 years ago.
Johnny
Thanks for all the jokes!
Cheers - Doug
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Saturday, August 30, 2003 at 11:31:14 (UTC)
|
Great picture Philip,
As for Arthur's comment about the Stork -
Doesn't he know that all plants need a Stork
So as to have somewhere to hang the leaves
and the fruit. !!!
Do check out
http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/ncnu02/v5-378.html
for possible matches to your fruit
How about volunteering to illustrate the GNR list of popular fruit lowers and plants ?
Cheers Ron
Ron Clibborn-Dyer [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hong Kong SAR, China
Saturday, August 30, 2003 at 09:33:48 (UTC)
|
Ron
I agree - there are many plants in Africa which have not yet 'been discovered'. I will help with your project to identify them (and eventually hopefully get the GNR their own personal photos of the plants).
Doug
We have su-su's growing in the garden and whilst I have never tried making wine from them, I do make chips from time to time except they don't have much taste.
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Saturday, August 30, 2003 at 09:32:39 (UTC)
|
A story found in my search for the Monkey Apple
Ron
The Gharial and the Monkey
"A folk tale from India. Adapted from a Kannada
Tamil folk story by Linda Brookover."
The Ganges River, the greatest and longest river in India is a home to many animals. Beside the river lived a monkey in a tree that bore sweet and fragrant fruit. It smelled as sweet as a rose and tasted like an apple so the monkey called it a rose apple. While the monkey was eating the plentiful fruit of that beautiful tree, a gharial came out of the river.
On his long thin snout was a round bump that looked like a ball. The gharial is a crocodile that got its name from his nose."Ghara" means pot in the Indian language which is what the thing on his nose looked like. He used that bump to blow bubbles and make sounds that were very attractive to lady gharials, especially his wife.
The little monkey threw down his fruit, and said to the gharial, "These are the best rose apples in the world!" The gharial tried one and agreed, "they are wonderful!" The monkey and the gharial became good friends and the gharial visited every day.
Then one day the gharial took one of the rose apples to his wife and his wife asked where he had gotten the delicious fruit. She said, "You cannot climb the tree, did you pick them up from the river bank?" "No," replied the gharial, my new friend, the monkey, throws them down to me.
"Oh!" said the lady gharial, "that monkey who lives on such sweet fruit, must have a heart that tastes like heaven. Bring me the monkey's heart so that I may eat it!"
The gharial was horrified by his wife's desire. "He's my friend," he argued, "so he's my brother in-law to you." He tried to distract her by blowing bubbles and making sounds through his nose, but it was no use. Still the lady gharial wished to taste the monkey's heart and finally, though he argued as much as he could, the gharial agreed to bring the monkey home to his wife.
The next day the gharial invited the monkey home with him for dinner. Little did the monkey know that his poor heart would be the main course. The gharial told the monkey to ride on his back. The monkey said, "You are a gharial and live in the water. I cannot swim and will drown in your home. The crocodile reassured the monkey by saying, "We live on a dry, sunny island." The monkey was excited about visiting his friend's house, since the gharial always visited him at his tree and off they went.
The monkey brought many rose-apples as a gift to his friend's wife. The gharial felt so guilty that on the way to his home he told the monkey the truth about his wife and the monkey's heart. "Oh my heart is what you want!" said the monkey, "Well, I left it in the tree where I live. You must take me back there and I will get it for you." The gharial turned around and took the monkey back to his tree and never even saw him go up he went so fast. He told his wife that the monkey had drowned on the way and they never tasted rose-apples again.
In real life, crocodilians take their prey to their homes for dinner just like in the story. They usually drag large animals into their nest or lair and feed off of the catch for a few days. Gharials, however, are not capable of eating large animals because their jaws are too slim. They have been found with jewelry in their stomachs, but only because throwing jewelry in the river is a part of the traditional burial ceremony in India. Gharials probably eat jewelry, as ballast, to add weight to help them stay under water longer.
Ron comments that jewelry like pebbles may aid the digestion of food in the Crocodile or Gharial stomach - rather like the action of a cement mixerwith agragate or stones in the cement to make concrete.
http://www.oneworldmagazine.org/tales/crocs/gharial.html
Ron Clibborn-Dyer [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hong Kong SAR, China
Saturday, August 30, 2003 at 09:15:23 (UTC)
|
I have been following the debate on the Tungalulu fruit with great interest. It seem not to be the Monkey apple which is from a fair sized tree also called the Monkey orange Strychnos spinosa and another tree species Strichnose cocculoides - monkey apple (mtonga) called variously - Corky monkeyorange, Corky-bark monkey orange. [Loganiaceae] for which there is a lovely story from India that I will send in a separate message.
Most of you describe picking the fruit from low to the ground and often on fire burned parches of bushland.
I think Carrisa is the most likely candidate - the Carissa bispinosa or Natal Plum that is called [ama] Tungulu in the south. According to my web-search there are several sub-species and two varieties in Zimbabwe that may well fit the bill:
CARISSA L.
Carissa bispinosa
subsp. bispinosa
var. bispinosa
Carissa arduina
subsp. zambesiensis Kupicha
var. acuminata sensu
Carissa edulis
Carissa tomentosa
Carissa tetramera
Flora of Zimbabwe
Apocynaceae
http://www.zimbabweflora.co.zw/fams/apocynac.html
_______________________________________________
Natal only lists these:
Carissa bispinosa
Carissa congesta Karanda
Carissa grandiflora Natal Plum
Carissa lanceolata Australian Carissa
Carissa macrocarpa Natal Plum
http://www.tradewindsfruit.com/fruitsscientific.htm
_________________________________________________
The Pretoria University has this to say of two of the
Carissa species they have in their garden:
130. Carissa bispinosa
Family: Apocynaceae
Forest Num-num / Bosnoemnoem
A scrambling shrub or small tree, C. bispinosa is widespread, occurring in dense vegetation from the Western Cape through the eastern parts of the country into Botswana, Zimbabwe and Mozambique. It grows in a variety of habitats including dry woodland and evergreen forest. The flowers are small, white (sometimes with a pinkish tinge), scented and roughly resemble frangipani flowers in form. The species bears edible red fruits (berries) which are sought after by birds and other animals. It can be grown in the garden in semi-shade or in full sun. It is a fairly slow-grower and reaches a maximum height of about 2 m. It tolerates slight frost and moderate drought.
http://www.up.ac.za/academic/botany/garden/species/130.html
18. Carissa macrocarpa sp.
Family: Apocynaceae
Big Num-num / Grootnoemnoem
A shrub or small tree that grows up to 4 m in height. It occurs in coastal bush, on sand dunes and at the margins of coastal forest, from the vicinity of Humansdorp northwards through KwaZulu-Natal to Mozambique. All the Carissa species are spiny, evergreen shrubs containing latex. The spines are neatly forked and serve as an identifying characteristic for the genus. The leaves are thick and leathery Carissa species are valued as garden plants because of their flowers, which are white, or nearly so, scented and borne in profusion. Flowers are solitary or borne in clusters. The fruit (a berry) of all Carissa species is edible and is rich in Vitamin C, calcium, magnesium and phosphorus. The fruit of C. macrocarpa is especially delicious and is used to make jelly. They are eagerly consumed by birds, which also distribute the seed. Carissa species are grown from seed or cuttings and tolerate slight frost and moderate drought. This species is often used as a hedge plant in warm areas, where it grows moderately quickly.
http://www.up.ac.za/academic/botany/garden/species/18.html
BOTANICAL GARDEN - University of Pretoria
If there is not a book on the native plants of Zambia and their food and medicinal uses then its about time that some of us put our heads together and did something about it.
We could al least try to list all the fruit etc that were and still are enjoyed so much and put common English Africaans and tribal names to them along with their international Latin names. Many of them will already be in the excellent new books on Natal Trees and Wild Flowers by Elsa Pooley [Natal apparently having more species than any other territory in Africa]
The description of a crimson fleshy fruit with white flesh inside filled with tiny black seeds also fits an altogether different plant - the creeping or climbing cactus known to some as the red pitaya [Hylocereus undatus] or Dragon Fruit in the Far East.
See: http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/ncnu02/v5-378.html
We have not yet identified the Ginger-like plant that Philip described - it must be something other than the Tungalulu described above as his most vivid description is so different from the shrub Carissa.
To keep the thread together I have copied all the related messages below:
Now how about it folks - lets start with a list of all the Common names we can remember and start identifying them on the web or from any books we can find - We can then create an on-line reference to any of the known plants we all remember from the Great North Road in Central Africa together with links to botanical descriptions and photos already on-line as I have done above.
Remember too that there are still plants out there that have still to be discovered by some very observant person with an enquiring mind.
Doug,
What are Su Su's ?
If anyone is interested to help with this project on or off the message board I will get the ball rolling by sharing this Tropical Fruit Database:
http://www.tradewindsfruit.com/fruitsscientific.htm
and this list of local names in four languages from Namibia prepared for free sharing by a German research group :
http://www.sigridleger.de/book/index.html?/book/plants/pl_097.html
Happy plant hunting,
Cheers Ron
The telephone line has just been repaired after the line was burned in several places and brought down by a direct lightning strike on Monday 25th August when several of our electrical appliances were also burned out by an electrical surge through the power cables.
Doug wrote:
Jill
I looked up the Carissa Bispinosa (Natal Plum) in a google search. Although the Zulu name amaTungulu is similar it is a different plant. The Natal plum is a red fleshed berry that grows on a bush, whereas our Zambian Tungaloolu is a small shrub that grows very close to the ground. The fruit is crimson skinned with white flesh full of small round black seeds if I remember right. I seem to remember the fruit pod was sort of half in and half out of the ground.
I also searched for Tungaloolu under various spelling and got a response to Tungalulu in an article by an Italian missionary to Malawi. However he was using it to describe the ululating noise the Malawian women make when they are happy at your arrival.
Come on you indigenous Zambians, help us out here. Chisanga, you must be familiar with this plant.
I am sure John Glen used to make wine out of it. He certainly made wine out of everything else including Su-Su's which were a sort of whitish squash that used to grow on a creeper vine. This was quite potent.
Cheers - Doug
Doug Grewar
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Friday, August 29, 2003
Friday, August 29, 2003 at 1
Tungaloolu
I am trying to find out what the correct name of the fruit is - and Heather gave me a clue with spinosa.
I have found something that is called Amathungulu by the Zulus - they always put an "ama" before everything - so you are left with Thungulu (similar to Tungaloolu) and the plant is called Carissa macrocarpa and there is also a Carissa bispinosa. It has bright red oval fruits that are delicious and rich in Vitamin C. They can be eaten whole, are enjoyed by baboons and monkeys, fruit-ating birds and an exceptional jelly is made from them - according to Pitta Joffe in her book Creative Gardening with Indigenous Plants.
A pink dye is also obtained from the fruit.
Here it is called the Big Num-num in English and Groetnoemnoem in Afrikaans
The flowers are starry white - similar to those of the jasmine. The roots are traditionally used to cure toothache.
Jilly
Jill Aplin South Africa
Friday, August 29, 2003
To me, Monkey apples are the same as African Oranges which grow on a tree called (I hope I've got this right) ******????? spinosa. I posted pictures of these on the board last year in October or November. They are very acid and tart, but taste delicious when served with a caramel sauce or used in ice cream. When unripe, the fruits contain strichnine.
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender)
Lusaka, Zambia
Thursday, August 28, 2003
Doug
Well actually Monkey Apples were also bright red. They might have also been above ground... I do remember them being apparent in burnt bushland. Also, the Mwambashi is a river on the way from Nkana to Mufilira... so perhaps this is the same thing.
What did they taste like? I remember them being quite acidic and tart. Also growing nearby, but on drier cleared land (where dairy cattle graised) were wild gooseberries---the African kind---golden, not green.
I remember also finding a primate scull on the side of an anthill nearby. We thought nothing of it at the time, but imagine had we unearthed some ancient African ape! There is no telling, I suppose now!
Dave Cooper
Founder of The Great North Road website
Dave Cooper
Thursday, August 28, 2003
Dave
The Tungaloolu was bright red, a sort of triangular shaped pod circa 100mm to 150mm long, and stuck up above the ground, so it must be different from your fruit.
Cheers - Doug
Doug Grewar
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Thursday, August 28, 2003
Doug et al,
Near the banks of the Mwambashi, as young lads, we would pull up a tuber-like lili of a plant and find a reddish bulb which when eaten was slightly sour. We called these "Monkey Apples", is this the same fruit of which you speak?
Vercingetorix Rules!
Dave Cooper
Founder of the Great North Road website
Dave Cooper
Amsterdam, Nederland
Wednesday, August 27, 2003
Philip
I remember the Tungaloolo fruit very well. It looked better than it tasted. The used to grow alongside the Mokambo road north of Mufulira. If I remember right they normally came up in areas where the grass had been burnt just before the rains so if someone can find one I will certainly bring it back for you.
Cheers - Doug
Doug Grewar
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Wednesday, August 27, 2003
Hi All,
Arthur and Heather,
Maureen and I have been having a chat the other day and she mentionde a fruit that we both remember which grew on the side of the road to the Golf course in Nkana. I dont know the correct spelling of the fruit but Maureen spells it TONGALOOLO, (looks right)
It was a wonderful wild fruit which popped out of the ground at a certain time of the year. When the fruit turned bright red they were ready to eat. The edible part which consisted of a white flesh with hundreds of small black pips was enclosed in a hard fleshy pod.( If you have ever eaten this fruit you will never forget it)
The plant itself looks similar to a Wild Ginger plant with large elongated leaves on a single stork about 3-4 feet high, the fruit appears at at the base of the plant and actually sticks out of the ground around the stalk
I can't remember what time of the year the fruit appeared.
The reason for this posting is a mission that Arthur and Heather must complete when they are in Nkana.
MISSION
Proceed along the golf course road for about 1k on the left hand side of the road look for above mentioned plants. Take a spade and dig up some of the plants complete with roots. Trim the stalks and pack the root stock into a plastic bag with enough water to keep them damp. Take this package to the Lark and give them to Doug to bring back for me. I will collect them in Vreyheid when he gets back.
I am sure they will grow here in Eshowe as every thing that grew in Nkana grows here.
Cheers
Philip Pain
Eshowe, Kwazulu Natal, South Africa
Wednesday, August 27, 2003
Ron Clibborn-Dyer [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hong Kong SAR, China
Saturday, August 30, 2003 at 09:06:09 (UTC)
|
Hi
This is as I remember the Tongaloolo.
Cheers
Philip
Philip,
This fruit and leaves - looks like something they'd shmoke in Amsterdam.
Not sure what they'd do with the shtork though
Arthur
Arthur Steevens [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stockport, United Kingdom
Saturday, August 30, 2003 at 08:56:49 (UTC)
|
George Maxwell
Just as well you posted - I have just been looking at travel timetables to get up to Edinburgh to come and give you a whipping because you've been quiet for so long!!
Don't stay away for so long again!!
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Saturday, August 30, 2003 at 08:39:54 (UTC)
|
Good morning campers, your morning smile to set the mould for the rest of your day Johnny.
Jenny was very rich. One day she telephoned a famous blonde young artist and said she wanted to commission him to paint her, He said his fee would be $5,000, which she immediately accepted.
When she arrived at his studio for the first sitting, she gave him a check for $7,000.
The artist was very surprised and asked what
the extra money was for. “I want you to paint me in the nude,” she said, “Do you have any objections?”
“Not for $7,000 I don’t. But I would have to keep my socks on. I must have somewhere to put my brushes.”
-------------------------
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Saturday, August 30, 2003 at 07:56:51 (UTC)
|
Ouch! ouch!
Heather and her whip again.
George Maxwell [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Edinburgh, Scotland
Saturday, August 30, 2003 at 06:04:55 (UTC)
|
Greetings
For those of you scanning maps etc. TechTV channel give a good review to a program called LM Stitch to aid in the assembly of scanned images and photographs back into large "sheets" or photographic panorama's up to 360 degrees.
A trial version is free and the full version can be down loaded for about $19 or EUR18.35 + VAT
Web address: http://www.lostmarble.com/lmstitch.html
John Pringle [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Atlanta, Georgia, United States
Saturday, August 30, 2003 at 00:51:10 (UTC)
|
Northerners
I have been working on the scanning and restoration of a map of Kariba (south bank) that is dated June 1959. I have it back together and am just dealing with a number of marks that were created by the map having been folded for 40 odd years. If anyone is interested, and the powers that be think it acceptable, I will send it to the GNR when I have it completed.
I have also just scanned in a map of the Rhodes Park area in Lusaka that was drawn up sometime before independence when the roads were patrolled at night because someone thought there would be trouble. What is interesting about this map is that it gives the surnames of the families that lived in each of the houses in the area. This is also going to take a bit of tidying up as it is not in the best of conditions after 40 years.
Hartley Heaton [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Binfield, Berkshire, United Kingdom
Friday, August 29, 2003 at 21:56:22 (UTC)
|
Doug after reading your latest missive to Jill I feel a song coming on,
Blame it on the bispinova the fruit of love,
I am sure that Texan composer Tinorosky can add a few more lines and maybe we will have an a number ! on the music market, Regards Johnny.
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Friday, August 29, 2003 at 21:02:41 (UTC)
|
Jill
I looked up the Carissa Bispinosa (Natal Plum) in a google search. Although the Zulu name amaTungulu is similar it is a different plant. The Natal plum is a red fleshed berry that grows on a bush, whereas our Zambian Tungaloolu is a small shrub that grows very close to the ground. The fruit is crimson skinned with white flesh full of small round black seeds if I remember right. I seem to remember the fruit pod was sort of half in and half out of the ground.
I also searched for Tungaloolu under various spelling and got a response to Tungalulu in an article by an Italian missionary to Malawi. However he was using it to describe the ululating noise the Malawian women make when they are happy at your arrival.
Come on you indigenous Zambians, help us out here. Chisanga, you must be familiar with this plant.
I am sure John Glen used to make wine out of it. He certainly made wine out of everything else including Su-Su's which were a sort of whitish squash that used to grow on a creeper vine. This was quite potent.
Cheers - Doug
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Friday, August 29, 2003 at 18:44:07 (UTC)
|
N O R T H E R N E R S!
Here in Europe, a person's name is not published when arrested for a crime... for example, the assassin of Pim Fortuyn was never released until he was proven guilty.
I am not sure what other countries have these laws. Perhaps the UK as well?
Well, for those who have not accessed US news sources, it was revealed there today that the following person has been alleged to be the perpetrator of the MSBLAST worm:
Jeffrey Lee Parson, 18, of Hopkins, Minnesota, USA.
Dave Cooper
Founder of The Great North Road website
Dave Cooper [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Amsterdam, Nederland
Friday, August 29, 2003 at 18:24:22 (UTC)
|
Arthur
Profuse apologies for "lurking" so long without posting, but there are just not enough hours in my day.
At this stage it will just be the two "Eldridge Girls" (Heather and I), Grant and my eldest daughter and son-in-law that will be attending. We are trying to tie up the loose ends and will let Heather know the details, hopefully by Monday.
Shirley will be in the throes of moving to Cape Town at the end of September, where her and her husband will be retiring and Lynthia will be eagerly awaiting the birth of her eldest son's child over that very weekend!
I so wanted them both to be there and to travel up to Kitwe with us (the Eldridge Girls going home), but now it will just be "the sisters are doing it for themselves"!!! Oh well ....
Vivienne
Vivienne Jeannette Buitendag (née Eldridge) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Boksburg, South Africa
Friday, August 29, 2003 at 13:00:18 (UTC)
|
N O R T H E R N E R S!
You can see where the Mwambashi is in relation to Nkana and Mufilira, by looking at the Kitwe interactive map. Pan to the inset map of the Copperbelt and then zoom and pan about in an Nkana - Mufilira direction. It drained from the west and joined the Kafue north of Nkana.
Dave Cooper
Founder of the Great North Road website
Dave Cooper [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Amsterdam, Nederland
Friday, August 29, 2003 at 09:53:55 (UTC)
|
Doug
So I reckon these are the same fruit---monkey apples---growing by the banks of the Mwambashi... I feel a song coming on....
The Mwambashi is a great river, or was. And you are right Doug, in its description. The Marlowes had a dairy farm near it. The twins (Richard and John) and I used to swim in it where it crosses the power lines. There was a bridge there, and the river was very swift, and it looked powerful and deep.
A great little African river!
Nice to see all this germane talk about Zambia going on! Reminds me of the good old days!
Dawie die Verskriklike...
Dave Cooper [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Amsterdam, Nederland
Friday, August 29, 2003 at 09:49:04 (UTC)
|
Good morning campers and Marilyn, your little smile to start your day Johnny.
-------------
Noah opens up the ark and lets all the animals out, telling them
to "Go forth and multiply." He's closing the great doors of the
ark when he notices that there are two snakes sitting in a dark
corner.
So he says to them, "Didn't you hear me? You can go now. Go forth
and multiply."
"We can't," said the snakes, "We're adders."
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Friday, August 29, 2003 at 08:43:45 (UTC)
|
Tungaloolu
I am trying to find out what the correct name of the fruit is - and Heather gave me a clue with spinosa.
I have found something that is called Amathungulu by the Zulus - they always put an "ama" before everything - so you are left with Thungulu (similar to Tungaloolu) and the plant is called Carissa macrocarpa and there is also a Carissa bispinosa. It has bright red oval fruits that are delicious and rich in Vitamin C. They can be eaten whole, are enjoyed by baboons and monkeys, fruit-ating birds and an exceptional jelly is made from them - according to Pitta Joffe in her book Creative Gardening with Indigenous Plants.
A pink dye is also obtained from the fruit.
Here it is called the Big Num-num in English and Groetnoemnoem in Afrikaans
The flowers are starry white - similar to those of the jasmine. The roots are traditionally used to cure toothache.
Jilly
Jill Aplin [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
South Africa
Friday, August 29, 2003 at 08:29:06 (UTC)
|
Star Gazers:
I finally saw Mars last night! Clive and I were walking in Kings Park and I had given up on clear skies. However, I'm always looking for the first star of the night to make a wish on and lo and behold. There was Mars. The only star in the sky at that moment and so bright. We got out the bino's at home but really needed a telescope. It was great to see at last.
Alix:
Did you see Mars last night?
Perth GNR Members:
Anyone walking/running the City to Surf on Sunday?
Heather:
Did you have all the leather gear on when you had the whip out?
Marilyn
Marilyn Noall (née Shooter) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Western Australia, Australia
Friday, August 29, 2003 at 05:19:17 (UTC)
|
Hi! DAVID
I got involved with model aircraft as a youngster when my brother built a HAWKER HUNTER "JETEX" powered model and which started something in my life which today I can't get away from.
In the mid 80's I became the CHIEF SCALE JUDGE FOR S.A.A.R.F. (South African Ass. of Radio Flyers ) a post I held untill I resignd in 1989 to start my own business.
My mate and I made the first home built model aircraft jet turbine engine in South Africa (Parrifin Fueled) that powered a aircraft in flight. Check this out 120 00 RPM, 2000 rpm/ second, exhaust temp. 650 deg.C. (Don't put your hand in front of the intake to see if there is enough air going through the intake, I have the scars.) This turbine delivered +/- 17 lb. of thrust and weighed just under a kilo (2.20462 lbs for Arthur) The model could achieve around 300 km\h (186 MPH for Arther) in level flight. My mate Dawie has immigrated to OZ. and is still flying Jets. We still have contact and will get him to send some pic's of our early development and aircraft.
I was a bum pilot but very good at telling people how it should be done, thus the reason I was selected to become the National Judge. ( I received my Freestate Colours for sport Admin. in 1988) My eldest son Mark claimed all my gear and has gone to N.Z. with it.
As you can see I have a passion for Model Aircraft and will share plenty stories of Growing up in NKANA and my early modelling days.
Cheers
Philip Pain [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Eshowe, Kwazulu Natal, South Africa
Friday, August 29, 2003 at 05:07:49 (UTC)
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Dave
The taste sounds right. A rose by any other name etc. I remember the Mwabashi well. It crosses the Kitwe to Chingola road just before the T-junction to Mufulira, where Sabina Burns had a shop. I have sometimes parked and walked onto the bridge to look at the river. Although it was not a big river, the water was deep, fast running and amazingly clear. I always wished to have a farm with such a river.
Heather
I often used to eat those African Oranges when I was a youngster. They were also good for targets for pellet guns when we ran short of blouskops.
Cheers - Doug
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Friday, August 29, 2003 at 04:43:20 (UTC)
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How come I look so green every time I look in the mirror? Could it be that you lot are gearing up for the Lark and I'm not?
Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Friday, August 29, 2003 at 03:02:41 (UTC)
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Brassso no longer incognito!!!!! I am now back on my own log in and my whipped back is ohhhhhh so sore! Sarkyarthur U need to be prepared to take this Chalcraft woman in hand on Saturday! I'm tooo old for this whipping. Ewe but it is ohhhhh so nice bwana
Passing her onto to U tomorrow Friday Arthur!
A well beaten Brasso!!!!!! :-)
Gary Brassington [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Banbury Oxon, United Kingdom
Thursday, August 28, 2003 at 23:56:14 (UTC)
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MONKEY APPLES
To me, Monkey apples are the same as African Oranges which grow on a tree called (I hope I've got this right) ******????? spinosa. I posted pictures of these on the board last year in October or November. They are very acid and tart, but taste delicious when served with a caramel sauce or used in ice cream. When unripe, the fruits contain strichnine.
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Thursday, August 28, 2003 at 23:26:52 (UTC)
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I've been out to dinner with Cookie and Teresa and Brasso Senior. The fish was superb (not Tiger, Arthur) and right now its the wine doing the typing.
Brasso is threatening to visit Zambia next year and Cookie is threatening to come again, so can anyone offer me somewhere to live while they're there.
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Thursday, August 28, 2003 at 23:16:05 (UTC)
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Oooh, you should see what I'm doing to Brasso with this whip.
And he's not complaining.
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Thursday, August 28, 2003 at 23:11:32 (UTC)
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Oooh, you should see what I'm doing to Brasso with this whip.
And he's not complaining.
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Thursday, August 28, 2003 at 23:11:24 (UTC)
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This is Brasso posting incognito because that Chalcraft woman was so pissed off at me for not posting for so long that she came to Banbury and is now standing behind me with a whip and forcing me to do it.
The Lion lager is cold and pleasant though.
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Thursday, August 28, 2003 at 23:08:46 (UTC)
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Doug
Well actually Monkey Apples were also bright red. They might have also been above ground... I do remember them being apparent in burnt bushland. Also, the Mwambashi is a river on the way from Nkana to Mufilira... so perhaps this is the same thing.
What did they taste like? I remember them being quite acidic and tart. Also growing nearby, but on drier cleared land (where dairy cattle graised) were wild gooseberries---the African kind---golden, not green.
I remember also finding a primate scull on the side of an anthill nearby. We thought nothing of it at the time, but imagine had we unearthed some ancient African ape! There is no telling, I suppose now!
Dave Cooper
Founder of The Great North Road website
Dave Cooper [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Amsterdam, Nederland
Thursday, August 28, 2003 at 21:59:47 (UTC)
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Dave
The Tungaloolu was bright red, a sort of triangular shaped pod circa 100mm to 150mm long, and stuck up above the ground, so it must be different from your fruit.
Cheers - Doug
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Thursday, August 28, 2003 at 21:52:59 (UTC)
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Philip
Glad to have located a fellow aero modeller! Did you ever come across Bez Bezuidenhout the woodwork and technical drawing teacher at FKS / Kitwe High? He was a real fundi and a very accomplished control line flyer. He designed and built a series of aerobatic flying wings all of which were called "Flutterguts" (1, 2, 3, etc.) They were really fast. Most were powered by ED 1.5 cc diesel engines. On occasion paper streamers were attached to the tail and several were flown in the same circle. The winner was the one who lopped off as much as possible of the opposition's streamers without suffering too much loss himself. Very exciting stuff. I was an absolute dunce at control line flying so just made models for the fun of it. You mention crop circles but for me the crop should be "cropper!" By the way, I expect you know that FROG stands for Flies Right Off the Ground, or so one book on aero modelling would have me believe.
Cheers
David Gray [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
South Africa
Thursday, August 28, 2003 at 15:49:11 (UTC)
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Plane Tickets arrived through the post this morning. Discovered that my inoculations had run out so have had most done, only yellow fever to go which is scheduled for 9:30 tomorrow morning. Malaria tablets on order, everything coming together.
Hartley Heaton [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Binfield, Berkshire, United Kingdom
Thursday, August 28, 2003 at 10:49:03 (UTC)
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I am looking for an old friend, Lyn Adamson, her mother Olga, father Ernie and sister Elizabeth.
Margaret Ross (née Smillie) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Johannesburg, South Africa
Thursday, August 28, 2003 at 10:43:50 (UTC)
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Arthur
I made it perfectly clear in 1995 that this website will conform to World standards. Obviously some of the new staff has let this all sink back into the Middle Ages. Next we will be bartering with cattle and sacks of corn and using the accusative, dative, nominative and genitive to do so!
You can come here and try and ask for a "pint" (how quaint) of "ale" here, but you'd go thirsty until come up to speed.
Dave Cooper
Founder of the Great North Road website
Dave Cooper [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Amsterdam, Nederland
Thursday, August 28, 2003 at 10:20:29 (UTC)
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Chris
Thanks for the advice and good wishes on the Tiger fishing, I have taken note and will follow local the advice as you say. They say October is a good month so hopefully I’m in with a reasonable chance, we are fishing on the lower Zambezi.
I have also heard that “catch and release” is now the thing to do and barbless hooks are now used. I’m not upset about that at all, for one I’m told the Tiger is not good eating and secondly I always use de-barbed hooks now anyway. A few years ago I got a treble hook stuck in my thumb, the choices were to pack up fishing and go and get the hook removed at a hospital or to do what I did, use the pliers and push the hook right through, cut the barb off and pull the thing back out. A painful lesson you don’t want to do so often and since using barbless I have never lost a fish anyway. In fact these days I rarely kill a fish unless it’s a fat trout and all salmon are returned because they have declined so much in the last 20 years.
I have at least one get out if I don’t catch a Tiger this time, it’s my excuse to go back to try again.
Philip
You are obviously very new to the GNR. Firstly you would know by now that it is me who sets the “Missions” here. Secondly I do not dig holes myself and don’t intend to start now. Thirdly you say “proceed along the golf course road for about 1k” - what is 1k? (I think it is some sort of measurement the Dutch have adopted from the French) I never thought it would happen in South Africa. Thankfully I live in a country that still uses Imperial measurements, when I go to the pub I ask for a pint of bitter, I can’t imagine using a girly “millilitre”. A mile is a mile and a pint is a pint and a pound is a pound.
Now I’ve heard you say you are digging holes yourself for a day job, so the best thing to do is get yourself a suitcase and come over to Nkana Kitwe yourself. And I have never seen a stork with elongated leaves, only feathers. If you need supervision when digging your hole Heather will be there to whip you on and have you practice by digging a few latrines before you start.
And while I’m thinking about what possible excuse you may come up with to try and get out of attending the Lark, where are the Kitwe girls, Lynthia, Heather Viv et al? What excuses are you making up just now girls? Are you going to let me down?
Arthur
Arthur Steevens [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stockport, United Kingdom
Thursday, August 28, 2003 at 09:26:30 (UTC)
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Good morning campers here is your smile for today, boys let this be a lesson for you, keep it buttoned.
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A woman was being sent to England to attend a two-week company training session. Her husband drives her to the airport and wishes her to have a good trip.
The wife says, "Thank you honey, what would you like me to bring for you?"
The romantic husband smiles and says, "An English girl!"
The woman keeps quiet and bids him a loving good-bye hug and kiss.
Two weeks later husband came to collect her at the airport and asked, "Honey, how was your trip?"
"Very good, thank you," she says.
The husband preparing for a romantic night continued, "And, dear, what happened to my present?"
She asks, "What present?"
He winks and replies, "Remember what I asked for.... The English girl?"
"Oh, that?" the wife answers earnestly, "well, I did what I
could; now we have to wait a few months to see if it's really a girl!"
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Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Thursday, August 28, 2003 at 07:04:38 (UTC)
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Another fallacy, British cows do boo but only when they are in the vicinity of the Springboks cricket team.
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Thanks Doug for your finger crossing but it was all to no avail, there is another draw on Sat night see if you can round up a witch doctor for that one to throw the bones, I did not get one number last night, but thanks for trying.
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Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Thursday, August 28, 2003 at 05:01:32 (UTC)
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Doug et al,
Near the banks of the Mwambashi, as young lads, we would pull up a tuber-like lili of a plant and find a reddish bulb which when eaten was slightly sour. We called these "Monkey Apples", is this the same fruit of which you speak?
Vercingetorix Rules!
Dave Cooper
Founder of the Great North Road website
Dave Cooper [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Amsterdam, Nederland
Wednesday, August 27, 2003 at 20:41:57 (UTC)
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Hi David
Sorry for the late response but with Lynne away till Saturday I tend to stay at the pub a bit longer than I should. When I get home and log onto the message board, which at this time of the month takes so long to download that I usually fall asleep in front of the computer. By the time that I awake with backache, bed seems a better option than reading the board.
I havent tried Johnny's "circle of 6" but your mention of EITHER brings back a memory of pinching the stuff from the DISPENSERY at the hospital to make for my FROG 150 model aircraft (Control line) engine.
I remember Mr. Potter chasing us off his cricket pitch at Federick Knapp School. (We were using it as a runway ) Had somthing to do with the Caster Oil and Parrafin making the grass go brown. (And they talk about the crop Circles, I knew back then how to make them.)
Cheers
Philip Pain [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Eshowe, Kwazulu Natal, South Africa
Wednesday, August 27, 2003 at 20:21:20 (UTC)
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Cows, monkeys and cars....
A slip of the fingers - cows indeed moo not boo, hee, hee.
Monkeys "gibber"....
Cars...
I owned three cars and a motor bike in NR between 1962 and 1966. A 1954 Citroen swapped for a case of Castle beer, a 1955 blue VW beetle that was a whopping 30 pounds and an old Humber Super Snipe bought for 25 pounds. I also owned a 1954 Douglas 350cc horizontal twin motorbike purchased once for 5 pounds, sold for 20 pounds and repurchased for 5 pounds.
My current car is a Nissan Pathfinder bought brand new in 1995 for $31,000 can = $21,700US. Eight years later I still have it and it only has 52,000kms. Just last year I sold my baby - a 1988 Camaro Convertible.
Peter Dielissen [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
Wednesday, August 27, 2003 at 19:44:53 (UTC)
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Philip
I remember the Tungaloolo fruit very well. It looked better than it tasted. The used to grow alongside the Mokambo road north of Mufulira. If I remember right they normally came up in areas where the grass had been burnt just before the rains so if someone can find one I will certainly bring it back for you.
Linda
I recently wrote a letter to our local paper being sarcastic about fit people who park in places reserved for the disabled. I said "maybe they think that being fat and ugly qualifies them as disabled". What a riot I caused among the many, many pleasingly plump ladies of Vryheid whose letters of complaint appeared the following week. Luckily I wrote under a pen name so I escaped being lynched! I replied with a letter of humble apology saying that I should have rather compared these inconsiderate people to skunks. Now I am in trouble with the SPCA! :-)
Johnny
We are holding thumbs and crossing fingers for you to win the Lotto!
Cheers - Doug
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Wednesday, August 27, 2003 at 18:40:20 (UTC)
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Heather you must have a real sack full of of EM'S This was a lulu I sent you this morning You are doing to much, take a day off tommorow and prop the bar up at the Lusaka Hotel Love Johnny.It said your Pc Was Full To Bust.
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PS the lottery is around 13 million tonight so I may still make the Bash.
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Wednesday, August 27, 2003 at 17:44:42 (UTC)
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I'm back - I'm back - and oh, how fantastic it feels - how many of you I wonder, can relate to not having access to the GNR site?
Heather - have yet to have confirmation of my lodgings at the Zambezi Sun, but think all should be in order by tomorrow -will contact you in the morning.
Hartley - thanks for your assistance this a.m.
Jacqui M. - apologies for not phoning you whilst overseas - - look forward to meeting up with you in Livingstone.
Wayne - sorry you aren't joining us. - In fact - sorry the majority of Broken Hillians aren't joining us - where are you all???
Alison Brooks - It was brilliant seeing you again and - we both haven't changed ONE iota have we!!! Thanks so much for driving all the way over to Richmond to see me. Linda H - thanks for getting us "together".
Trevor A - Wonderful chatting to you - will definitely meet up with you when I next "pop" over.
Christopher Stead - How can I ever thank you for your incredible patience - trapsing around London with me in 30 degrees temperature!!! I owe you big time!!!
For those of you who haven't heard!!! - I was lucky enough to get to Ascot (betting live from the Lloyd suite and eating and drinking myself into a coma!!) - to see Chicago at the Adelphi Theatre on the West End - to the Henley Music Festival with Sir Tim Rice introducing his lifes work - (Food in the Henley River tent prepared by none other than the famous Albert Roux !!!!) - and the grand finale were the horse Trials at the Queens Grounds in Windsor on the Sunday that I flew back!!!!
But now .......................... for Livingstone - can't wait - all of you draat sitters (you still have four weeks to go) - make a plan and get up there - it's a chance in a life time!!
Craig - thanks as always, for being there for me.
It's so wonderful to be back "home" on the site.
Elspeth Lloyd (née Robertson) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Blairgowrie, Johannesburg, South Africa
Wednesday, August 27, 2003 at 15:07:47 (UTC)
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We had clear skies here a couple of nights ago and Mars was very visible and prominent. Quite remarkable indeed.
Chandru Krishna [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Rockville, Maryland, United States
Wednesday, August 27, 2003 at 13:39:45 (UTC)
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We were checking Mars out last night and I was sure I saw a pub up there.We got our astro scope out and had a better look. There it was - a Mars Bar
Bob Gillies [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Springs, Gauteng, South Africa
Wednesday, August 27, 2003 at 12:30:20 (UTC)
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Johnny,
You sweet thing. It's a possibility, but I don't think I'm hairy enough to get them going. No more monkey business, you hear!
Jill Aplin [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
South Africa
Wednesday, August 27, 2003 at 11:43:46 (UTC)
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Heather
It seems that everything died at about 5pm last night, I haven't had a single email since then containing the virus. If yours haven't stopped, they soon will.
Hartley
Hartley Heaton [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Binfield, Berkshire, United Kingdom
Wednesday, August 27, 2003 at 11:31:52 (UTC)
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Craig et al,
OK, I found the link...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/august/26/newsid_2535000/2535825.stm
Notice the "onthisday" directory.
Dave
Dave Cooper [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Amsterdam, Nederland
Wednesday, August 27, 2003 at 11:05:20 (UTC)
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Dave
I've emailed you and I'll phone later this evening
Hartley
Hang in there - after a couple of days the infected emails become less and less, although mine have not yet stopped completely.
Madeleine Luckin
Please can you email me with the details of the places you want me to photograph (I don't have the time to extract them from the noticeboard)
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Wednesday, August 27, 2003 at 10:57:38 (UTC)
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Craig
BBCi is very dynamic. The pages update very frequently. The article and video were there this morning when I posted. They have been updated and removed from the home page now.
For BBCi you've got to be quick. I hit BBCi between five and six times a day.
The article is there somewhere, you just got to get the right search string, I reckon. We cannot criticise BBCi's search engine if we don't have one... do we? Haven't checked lately.
Sorry I didn't post the URL, but I was busy with a number of things this morning---I HAD TO MAKE MY OWN BREAKFAST!!!!!
By the way, I was expecting you to be highly impressed by the resurfacing link I gave you on my upcoming Gent operation.
Dave
Dave Cooper [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Amsterdam, Nederland
Wednesday, August 27, 2003 at 10:54:51 (UTC)
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Recent Site Updates:
August 27th, 2003:- Replaced the old, partial map of Kalalushi with a new scan of the full map. Please see the maps page for details.
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Wednesday, August 27, 2003 at 10:45:54 (UTC)
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Ian,
It must be time for me to go to bed as I am getting forgetful. Thanks also for the positive feedback on Ray Smith Rhodesia Books.
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Wednesday, August 27, 2003 at 10:41:39 (UTC)
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Heather
Thanks anyway, if you can get a photo, when doesnt matter, any recent photo's of mufulira would be nice to see. Hope you get to see all that you have got on your list, good luck.
Barry Morton [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Brisbane, Australia
Wednesday, August 27, 2003 at 10:36:50 (UTC)
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Ian,
That's good news about your own domain. I will update the links on the site.
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Wednesday, August 27, 2003 at 10:35:44 (UTC)
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Hartley,
Thanks for that link. I didn't know they had a Web site. Looks like the same group. I will have a closer look later.
Dave,
Didn't see the link to which you referred on the BBCi home page. Looked in a few other places too, but couldn't find it.
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Wednesday, August 27, 2003 at 10:20:18 (UTC)
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To Ron Clibborn-Dyer
Your posting about the Lido Drive-in mentioned the footballer George Sharp. Well Geroge, now retired, lives in the same block of flats as I do, one floor up. Unfortunately he doesn't own or have access to a computer (I use the one at work) so can't visit the GNR site. I know he would enjoy this site as much as we all do, as he often talks about the good ol' days in Lusaka. Just the other day he mentioned a planned reunion of ex-Lusaka Police members and the name Gus Goble can up ... do you remember him? If you'd like to contact George I would be very happy to relay your message.
Cynthia
Cynthia Halvey [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Durban, KwaZulu-Natal, South Africa
Wednesday, August 27, 2003 at 09:48:37 (UTC)
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To Ron Clibborn-Dyer
Your posting about the Lido Drive-in mentioned the footballer George Sharp. Well Geroge, now retired, lives in the same block of flats as I do, one floor up. Unfortunately he doesn't own or have access to a computer (I use the one at work) so can't visit the GNR site. I know he would enjoy this site as much as we all do, as he often talks about the good ol' days in Lusaka. Just the other day he mentioned a planned reunion of ex-Lusaka Police members and the name Gus Goble can up ... do you remember him? If you'd like to contact George I would be very happy to relay your message.
Cynthia
Cynthia Halvey [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Durban, KwaZulu-Natal, South Africa
Wednesday, August 27, 2003 at 09:40:46 (UTC)
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Craig
Not sure if the trip to Oshkosh you refer to is that detailed at www.sa2usa2003.com
Hartley Heaton [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Binfield, Berkshire, United Kingdom
Wednesday, August 27, 2003 at 09:33:20 (UTC)
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Heather
It is 11:06 Eurotime in Amsterdam. I have waited the morning at home for your call. You might be held up with flights or HM Customs. At noon, I need to do errands in the buurt... groenteboer, slagerij, vishandel, warmbakker, postkantoor, etc. I should be back in the mid afternoon.
I will wait until noon for your bell. By the way, there are some internet connexions at Heathrow departures by that pseudo-Italian café overlooking the runways... not sure if you knew. They actually work for some coin fee. As for arrivals, I am not sure if that is the same hall.
In London, there is an easyInternet.com café on the Tottenham Court Road, across from the YMCA near the junction with Oxford Street. The fees are slightly higher (as everything is in the UK) than the fees for the same café here on the |
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