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Message Board
Catherine for my money, yep. There is a difference between an all out good natured barney and blatant calculated sneering, and illegal offensiveness. It is rare that his postings are not blatantly offensive and some of his postings are possibly legally actionable if someone wanted to take the action. Freedom of speech includes freedom to go elsewhere and not endanger the ambience and safety of the vision of a group of people.
Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Friday, April 30, 2004 at 23:50:22 (UTC)
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Per Cathy Nelson, I wrote
Please bring us a cuppa Five Roses tea and a saucer with Lobels Lemon Cream biscuits.
Yes, I agree, that was a very unfortunate choice of words. What I intended to say was that after the bar room type brawl in the past week or so, it would be good for Ayub and I to sit down and enjoy a cuppa, and for someone to please bring it. It came across that Auyb should have brought it.
That was never my intention, and I acknowledge that that sounds rich. But believe me - cross my heart.
Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Friday, April 30, 2004 at 23:42:08 (UTC)
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I have just re-read the last sentence of Mr. Tamm's posting 5 times (no, not the one about Solitaire) and I am still not sure I believe my eyes. If he is saying what I think he is saying, he really does need to be removed from this online community forever.
Cathrine Nelson [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Washington, DC, United States
Friday, April 30, 2004 at 22:35:40 (UTC)
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Pinch and a Punch for the beginning of the Month
No Returns
OK all you Windows Solitaire officianados, here is a question for you - when playing this game, 3 card draw, standard scoring, what is the maximum attainable score?
Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Friday, April 30, 2004 at 18:14:10 (UTC)
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Zumla, ranting:
I think its time you changed your attitudes and perceptions about people of other races and cultures. Like it or not we all have to live together in this World..you have to give and take...I shall pray to the good Lord that He gives you the foresight to accept the real World we live in...maybe I may even ask the Pharoahs! Cheer up man!
To the relief of many, I am not going further with this enormous waste of bandwidth. But allow me to encpsulate recent events. Zumla, quoting a highly placed, highly educated Zambian Minister, says that Fanagalo, Chikabanga, Chilapa Lapa, Kitchen Kaffir or whatever, was a European invention designed for them to bark orders at domestic servants. That is just plain untrue, and needed correction. From that point on, the "debate" degenerated into what it became, with Zumla now ranting about attitudes and perceptions. Both the unnamed Minister and Zumla are way off base here.
Thanks for your offer of praying old fruit, but I have never been more cheerful in my life.
Please bring us a cuppa Five Roses tea and a saucer with Lobels Lemon Cream biscuits.
Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Friday, April 30, 2004 at 17:15:28 (UTC)
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AYUB
As a travel agent I had the privilege of spending 10 days in Egypt and it was marvellous. I wish you BON VOYAGE and look forward to hearing about your trip on your return.
Anona Balloch [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
United Kingdom
Friday, April 30, 2004 at 14:10:23 (UTC)
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"the Zambesi and the Kafue remain the same, the fish eagle still soars in the crystal clear blue sky under the same glorious African sun... it's the same country"
Arthur those words affected me deeply, maybe its my age or the fact that 30 years ago today was my last day as a resident of Zambia, Steve and I flew out to South Africa on the 1st May 1974 ...
Vivienne
Vivienne Jeannette Buitendag (née Eldridge) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Boksburg, South Africa
Friday, April 30, 2004 at 13:01:07 (UTC)
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While on one of my infrequent visits to my local the chat turned to the various states of intoxication after i had diclosed that i had fallen down a flight of steps recently and could only put it down to the moderate amount of whisky i had consumed at a Saterday morning reunion, one of the participants said you were drunk, before I could issue my denial a gentleman named Joe Lewis informed the assembly that you are not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on, which completely exonerated me from answering the charge, have a nice day all of you and dont let the Bliksems get you down Johnny.
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Friday, April 30, 2004 at 08:22:24 (UTC)
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1500!
The GNR is really going places - 1500 members now! It seems only a couple of months ago that I posted a message saying "Wow - 700 members!" However it isn't numbers that count but quality. Let's not frighten off prospective new members with petty slanging matches. Everyone is entitled to their own views and who knows, they may well be correct! My view of life has changed considerably over the years and no doubt will continue to evolve. Thank you Dave Cooper for initiating a forum that has reunited so many old friends and introduced us to so many potential friends around the world.
Go well
David Gray [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
South Africa
Friday, April 30, 2004 at 07:56:04 (UTC)
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Am I missing something here? Isn't American the language that is spoken most in the world...
Oh, I know I'm being facetious, but isn't it time we all lightened up a bit here, folks. Remember that this is not a politically oriented message board. The discussion of languages is fascinating, and we should be able to discuss it all in depth without resorting to the verbal jabs from the usual suspects. I dunno about anyone else, but my nanny is the one who taught me what I thought at the time was FunnyGalore. What's more.. I use it when I go to the primary schools here to do presentations on Zambia for the kids. I will, no doubt, be accused of corrupting the offical language by the purists on the board, but you should see the kids enjoying themselves getting their little Texan accents around the words I try to teach them. In the end, it's not what you actually say, but the heart behind it that counts... by this times.
Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Friday, April 30, 2004 at 04:07:29 (UTC)
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Hi all,
This debate regarding the different languages is and has been very interesting, However I find what really gets my goat (Mbuzi...hehehehe.......Tina that one was for you !!!).........is the way people sling off at one another by the use of the last/surname instead of ones first name, I find that rather derogatory.....
Nicky
I was in the same boot as you, I was linguistically handicapped as a little child, I knew only Afrikaans,no English, it was only when my family emigrated to NZ that I had to learn English and of course being PC in those days the Afrikaans was dropped...never to be spoken again, the funny part about that is I wasn't even born in South Africa!!!!!........I sometimes wish I had been able to speak another language....my children are lucky they have that chance, what makes me laugh is up until last year the two younger ones Jade and Leah learned French at their primary school, the local high school teaches Japanese or Indonesian as a second language so the children upon reaching high school have to change languages...............now my daughters are going to a new school and guess what language they are learning now....hhmmmm Italian......talk about confusing....what i am trying to say is whatever, wherever there is always going to be that conflict in what language is suitable to speak............
Ali
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Friday, April 30, 2004 at 02:17:05 (UTC)
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Ayub I've just found time to check in with the GNR after a long absence. I always enjoy your thought-provoking contributions. Judging by some of the thoughtful answers you received so do many others. The multi-cultural diversity of this world is one of the fascinating things about it. We can fight over our differences or we can use those same areas of differences speaking with courtesy even when we disagree with a point made to learn from eachother. Enjoy Egypt.
Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Friday, April 30, 2004 at 01:40:53 (UTC)
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Nicky I did, didn't you wear any? Love Johnny.
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Thursday, April 29, 2004 at 23:37:40 (UTC)
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"The original intent of the Great North Road Web site was to provide a forum for expatriates who lived in the British protectorate of Northern Rhodesia. Most of these people were only resident in the country up until or shortly after October, 1964, when Zambia achieved its independence. Now there are many expatriates participating on the site who never lived in the country when it was Northern Rhodesia and don't consider themselves "Northern Rhodesians". Expat Zambians and current Zambian residents are welcome to join and take part in this site. In fact, we are honoured and delighted to welcome them as special members who had the courage to press on and try and continue the wonderful African life we felt we had to abandon. We would like expat Zambians and current Zambians to join us in the celebration of this wonderful place. After all, the Zambesi and the Kafue remain the same, the fish eagle still soars in the crystal clear blue sky under the same glorious African sun... it's the same country, only the logo has changed".
Dave Cooper -- Founder of the Great North Road Website -- 1996
Keep well my friend, we have passed another milestone on our journey along the Great North Road all thanks to you.
We welcome aboard our 1500th Member Lily Watkins today.
Arthur
Arthur Steevens [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stockport, United Kingdom
Thursday, April 29, 2004 at 23:10:34 (UTC)
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When I went to NR I couldn't speak any English I was only four years old at the time and lived out in the bush in Mucambo, just outside Mufulira. My only friends were black. For four years I grew up with them played with them and as they couldn't speak Greek, they taught me to speak Chikabanga. I only learned to speak English when I started school at eight years old.
Why did they not teach me their local lingo?
In my opinion the reason Chikabanga was outlawed in Zambia was because some nationality not to mention names called it Kitchen Kaffir.
Someone says we should wish KK a happy birthday, Would you wish someone who owed you money over 36 years ago and not paid up, a happy birthday? How many ex NR's are still waiting for their money?
Nicky Kontou [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Thursday, April 29, 2004 at 21:05:26 (UTC)
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|Tamm,
I never said Indian traders were popular. You better get your facts right...go back on this message board and tell me where I have said this! All I said was that Indian traders learnt Nyanja in the Eastern Province very quickly. And that is a fact!
As for the tone of your language..I leave for others to judge. I was always taught by my English teachers in Zambia (Miss De Villiers ...bless her soul..and Mrs Ann Flint) to refrain from using such cheap words....and that whenever one resorts to such language ..that person has either "lost it" or lost the argument.
I think its time you changed your attitudes and perceptions about people of other races and cultures. Like it or not we all have to live together in this World..you have to give and take...I shall pray to the good Lord that He gives you the foresight to accept the real World we live in...maybe I may even ask the Pharoahs! Cheer up man!
Ayub Ismail Zumla [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Manchester, United Kingdom
Thursday, April 29, 2004 at 20:50:05 (UTC)
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Betty
You forgot the verse Footsak lo feathers! after mblala lo mkuku. Ha! Ha!
I remember all those things you mentioned, great life.
Johnny
You must have looked really cool with your black nickers and eating your sweets.Ha! Ha!
Nicky Kontou [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Thursday, April 29, 2004 at 20:31:06 (UTC)
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Pat
Buffalo Balls could be amasende ya inyatsi. That's maybe right in one of the 58 or so different Zambian languages.
Ayub
It is true that an educated Zambian would take offence if you insisted on addressing him in Chikabanga after he had told you he could understand English. The reason for this is that it was mostly used in a master to servant situation, and he would assume (rightly or wrongly) that you were talking down to him. This attitude was often adopted by people who were only quarter edumacated but justi wishingi to provoki argumentifications.
However you must remember that before Independence there were very few well educated Zambians and Chikabanga therefore did serve a very usefull purpose of facilitating communication, in exactly the same way as Swahili was used by the Arabs. Suprisingly kiSwahili has been adopted as an official language in East Africa while Chikabanga is fading away.
We also found it very usefull in our young days to surrepticiously discuss the various ladies assetts while visiting England with some NR friends. On day on a bus we were caught out by the lovely blonde we had been commenting on, when she turned around and said, " Hey! Wena mampara sterik! (Hey! You are very stupid). She must have been a Kitwe bun on holiday.
Some years ago in South Africa the government was trying to give a better face to apartheid and it renamed the minister of native affairs as the minister of 'plural' development. This led the comedian Pieter Dirk Uys to comment that when singing 'Ag, please Daddy' we must no longer mention 'nigger balls' (the sweets) but instead say 'plural globes'. Very PC for sethafrica.
Doug - with cheek in tongue!
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Thursday, April 29, 2004 at 20:27:03 (UTC)
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Zumla writes:
Zita ....as for asking some of our indegineous Zambian friends to air an opinion...it appears that they seem to have been driven off the Message board by the likes of Tamm....their non-appearnce is our loss..for they contributed a lot ..and helped us undersatnd African Culture in a better perspective! Lets see if we can persuade them to come back!
I will leave alone your baseless and worthless comments that you have made here in the past week or so - passing the comments of others without serious consideration. And also the bit about how popular Indian traders were in Zambia. That kind of stuff does not belong here, and you should know that. But to say that I drive off people here is assanine. I have observed before, when someone, anyone, any race color creed, says something that is patently untrue, I will challenge that person. I have challenged the likes of Puta Checkwe, Mulenga, Cooper, and others for perfectly good reason. If they went away because of that, then perhaps their contributions were not worth listening to?
Then you say:
Finally, I am glad this stirred some good debate!
Absolute rubbish old chap. You have contributed sweet fanny adams (wherever that may have originated?) Passing comments of "highly Educated, highly placed Zambians" without your own consideration is not debate.
Finally you say
I am off to Egypt tomorrow for a few days..maybe I will try and converse with the Pharoahs!!!
You will enjoy that. The Pharoahs will never challenge you there, and you can debate them and win - 100% of all time
Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Thursday, April 29, 2004 at 19:54:05 (UTC)
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I don`t know how we are all getting fired up on this funigalo or what ever issue,it had nothing to do with racialisim or any other issims,in fact in Zambia we were very multicultural,or at least the people I hung about with were.Maybe not at first,but that was not because we did not like each other,but rather because that was the way we were raised.
I think if we all think about it you will find I am right,and think about this rather than race colour or creed,One Zambia One Nation,or was I the only one there.
Oh!happy birthday Dave and G.N.R.better late than never.ha!ha!
Pappy Papier [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Glasgow, United Kingdom
Thursday, April 29, 2004 at 19:30:32 (UTC)
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Helen
Learning about each other's cultures and respecting each other's religions is the only way forward. Its all to do with building bridges. Yes, Muslims should also learn..but then please do not fall into the trap of labelling all Muslims as being the same. What has happened lately is the work of a small minority of Muslims. The majority are peaceful and many have learnt about Christianity at schools they attend. I was only writing from what was observed by a BBC correspondent in his dispatch last week (on the 10 o'clock news) about how insensitive American Marines were to Muslim places of Worship..compared with British Soldiers. His observation was that it would not solve all problems by respecting Friday prayers at a Mosque..but they would lessen them. You will recall that not too far back in history Indira Gandhi sent in troops to flush out Sikh Separatists from the Holiest Sikh Shrine..The Golden Temple. The outrage felt by the Sikhs is still felt today by many..and Indira Ghandi was assassinated by her Sikh bodyguard! Yes, we must all learn about each other. That is the only way forward.
Robert..if you visit http://wwwethnologue.com/show_language.asp
you will see the quote..or drival as you call it.
Zita..
Thanks for your support. I can assure you that (after having asked opinions from those Black Zambians I know who are studying here in the UK) most black educated Zambians would loathe anyone conversing in Chilapalapa with them.. Why? One has to ask them!...I was only giving one Minister's opinion. Its not my opinion. If he finds it offensive..who am I to tell him he is wrong! Taking another example, I have heard some White commentators on the local radio actually trying to justify the (off the camera) remark made by Ron Atkinson in relation to the black Chelsea footballer Dessialey (last week) on the grounds that young Blacks in the UK do not find the word offensive!! The word being the N word. Now is that not paternalism! So it is better to ask someone if he/she finds something offensive rather that telling him it is not!
Zita ....as for asking some of our indegineous Zambian friends to air an opinion...it appears that they seem to have been driven off the Message board by the likes of Tamm....their non-appearnce is our loss..for they contributed a lot ..and helped us undersatnd African Culture in a better perspective! Lets see if we can persuade them to come back!
Finally, I am glad this stirred some good debate! I am off to Egypt tomorrow for a few days..maybe I will try and converse with the Pharoahs!!!
Ayub Ismail Zumla [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Manchester, United Kingdom
Thursday, April 29, 2004 at 18:56:07 (UTC)
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Dear Betty, I remember all of them but you missed out when you mentioned the gym slip uniform the black knickers with the sweets in the little pocket. Johnny.
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Thursday, April 29, 2004 at 17:10:24 (UTC)
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All this talk about language and political correctness is amusing. People can read anything into anything - it all depends on their individual sense of security. One of the nicer parts of the US lifestyle is their sense of self deprecation. Last year in June I received the story that follows herewith. The old adage about ACTIONS speaking better than words is vividly illustrated. Of course, while the English language is used to repeat the story the actions of those involved are universal. It could happen anywhere one finds ants and grasshoppers !
Post Script : For those GNR's wondering whether I'm an ant or a grasshopper . . . . . let me assure you that I am neither.
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The Fable of the Ant and the Grasshopper
CLASSIC VERSION:
The ant works hard in the withering heat all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter. The grasshopper thinks he's a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away. Come winter, the ant is warm and well-fed. The grasshopper has no food or shelter so he dies out in the cold.
MODERN VERSION:
The ant works hard in the withering heat all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter. The grasshopper thinks he's a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away. Come winter, the shivering grasshopper calls a press conference and demands to know why the ant should be allowed to be warm and well-fed while others are cold and starving.
CBS, NBC and ABC show up to provide pictures of the shivering grasshopper next to a video of the ant in his comfortable home with a table filled with food. America is stunned by the sharp contrast. How can this be, that in a country of such wealth, this poor grasshopper is allowed to suffer so?
Kermit the Frog appears on Oprah with the grasshopper, and everybody cries when they sing "It's Not Easy Being Green.
Jesse Jackson stages a demonstration in front of the ant's house where the news stations film the group singing "We Shall Overcome." Jesse then has the group kneel down to pray to God for the grasshopper's sake. Al Gore, reemerging from his self-imposed exile, exclaims in an interview with Peter Jennings that the ant has gotten rich off the back of the grasshopper, and calls for an immediate tax hike on the ant to make him pay his "fair share."
Finally, the EEOC drafts the "Economic Equity and Anti-Grasshopper Act," retroactive to the beginning of the summer. The ant is fined for failing to hire a proportionate number of green bugs and, having nothing left to pay his retroactive taxes, his home is confiscated by the government.
Senator Hillary gets her old law firm to represent the grasshopper in a defamation suit against the ant, and the case is tried before a panel of federal judges that Bill appointed, during a Senate recess, from a list of single-parent welfare recipients.
The ant loses the case.
The story ends as we see the grasshopper finishing up the last bits of the ant's food while the government house he is in, which just happens to be the ant's old house, crumbles around him because he doesn't maintain it.
The ant has disappeared in the snow.
The grasshopper is found dead in a drug-related incident and the house, now abandoned, is taken over by a gang of spiders who terrorize the once peaceful neighborhood.
Glen Drake [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
California, United States
Thursday, April 29, 2004 at 16:40:53 (UTC)
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Ayub,
You wrote,
CIKABANGA.."Influenced by Bemba in Zambia. Rejected by most Africans because it was imported from Zimbabwe and South Africa by Europeans who did not want Africans to learn English"
I am not quite sure who suggested this drivel to you, but I do wish you would use your own your own innate intelligence to see the speciousness of this argument.
I cannot claim to know much of the attitudes prior to 1948 in South Africa, but I do know that in the Rhodesias there was a concerted effort to teach English at all levels of society. As for the rejection of Zambians claiming disdain for the lingua franca, I would discount that also, most industrial jobs were dependent on it.
Robert Huntley [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Carmel, California, United States
Thursday, April 29, 2004 at 16:33:46 (UTC)
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Thanks for That Info Kevin, I knew you would come up with Chisela Kanchela's name,.....I wonder why....(giggles)
Ali
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Thursday, April 29, 2004 at 14:50:06 (UTC)
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I read all the comments that you GNRer's read and sometimes I get frustrated and other times I just want to go back and see home.
On the issue of language, I feel that I have to write.
The really interesting thing about this conversation is that everyone seems to be of European/white/caucasian (trying to be PC) descent. But what do black Zambia's think? Ayub, raises an interesting point - some black Zambia's do not like being spoken to in the said language (can't spell it so won't). There's nothing you can say which will change the way they feel. It doesn't matter that they went to schools which European
descandents built and taught them in. The point is we need to understand where they are coming from.
I remember reading the Lowdown - Editors Comments. I think Heather went to a meeting about some development and she was shouted at by some Lusaka resident. In her commentary she said something along the lines of we don't talk to people like that here in Zambia - she needed to tell him to make him understand. Please correct me Heather, and maybe that is the point that Ayub was trying to make.
On a lighter note. How many of you learnt to speak a fluent Zambian dialect. If you did, you are a better person than me, because although my mother was Zambian, I speak very, very basic Bemba.
Zita Calvin [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
London, United Kingdom
Thursday, April 29, 2004 at 14:17:00 (UTC)
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Dear Bwana Shone:
What a good memory you have.
Love
BM grin
Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Thursday, April 29, 2004 at 13:06:06 (UTC)
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Hi Ayub,
I couldn't help but disagree with your biased commentary:
"Wouldn't it be useful for American soldiers in Iraq to have learnt that walking with boots in Mosques and having rock music blaring out ot their army trucks whilst prayers are being said in Mossques are for Muslims, a great insult. I do not believe they went through any course in Muslim Rules of etiquette...It's all to do with learning about other people and getting to know their sensitivities!!"
Do you truly believe that a heightened awareness in American soldiers, of Muslim culture, would alleviate the problem and create a rapport among the two parties? If "It's all to do with learning about other people and getting to know their sensitivities", then I beg to question in all fairness, why is the reverse not true with Muslims? It has nothing to do with cultural awareness and ALL to do with treating others, no matter what their culture and race, the way you want to be treated.
Helen D'Cruz [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Temecula, California, United States
Thursday, April 29, 2004 at 13:04:06 (UTC)
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DO YOU REMEMBER WHEN...?
All the girls had ugly gym uniforms?
It took five minutes for the TV warm up?
Nearly everyone's Mum was at home when the kids got home from school?
Nobody owned a purebred dog?
When a shilling was a decent allowance?
You'd reach into a muddy gutter for a penny?
Your Mom wore stockings that came in two pieces?
All your male teachers wore ties and female teachers had their hair done every day and wore high heels?
You got your windshield cleaned, oil checked, and petrol pumped, without asking, all for free, every time? And you didn't pay for air?
Cereals had free toys hidden inside the box?
It was considered a great privilege to be taken out to dinner at a real restaurant with your parents?
They threatened to keep kids back a year if they failed. . .and they did?
When a 57 Holden was everyone's dream car?
No one ever asked where the car keys were because they were always in the car, in the ignition, and the doors were never locked?
Lying on your back in the grass with your friends and saying things like, "That cloud looks like a ." and playing footy with no adults to help kids with the rules of the game?
Stuff from the shop came without safety caps and hermetic seals because no one had yet tried to poison a perfect stranger?
And with all our progress, don't you just wish, just once, you could slip back in time and savour the slower pace, and share it with the children of today?
When being sent to the principal's office was nothing compared to the fate that awaited the student at home? Basically we were in fear for our lives, but it wasn't because of drive-by shootings, drugs, gangs, etc. Our parents and grandparents were a much bigger threat!
But we survived because their love was greater than the threat.
And remember that the perfect age is somewhere between old enough to know better and too young to care.
Do you remember a time when...
"Race issue" meant arguing about who ran the fastest?
It wasn't odd to have two or three "Best Friends"?
The worst thing you could catch from the opposite sex was "boy or girl bugs"?
Saturday morning cartoons weren't 30-minute commercials for action figures?
Spinning around, getting dizzy, and falling down was cause for giggles?
The worst embarrassment was being picked last for a team?
Playing cards in the spokes transformed any bike into a motorcycle?
Taking drugs meant orange-flavoured chewable aspirin?
Water balloons were the ultimate weapon?
If you can remember most or all of these, then you have lived!!!!!!!
Didn't that feel good, just to go back and say, "Yeah, I remember that"?
Betty Mahady (née Horn) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
United Kingdom
Thursday, April 29, 2004 at 12:45:25 (UTC)
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Anne Small, Ian Lesch
Best wishes on your birthday
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Thursday, April 29, 2004 at 12:04:08 (UTC)
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Hi Gordon,
What a surprise hearing from you after all these years!!
This is just a quick message to acknowledge receipt of your email and to let you know that I will be emailing you this evening.
Best regards
Lorraine
Lorraine Blackstock (née Bosman) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Johannesburg, Gauteng, South Africa
Thursday, April 29, 2004 at 11:04:20 (UTC)
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Hi Ali
The swimmers name is Chisela Kanchela. He is Zambia’s top male swimmer at present and Ellen Hight the top female with young Jakie Wellman catching up fast.
Both Ellen and Chisela have been selected for the Olympics as each country can send two swimmers even though they do not reach Olympic qualifying times. The swimmers however must have swum earlier in a FINA (the world swimming federation) organised event to prevent a repetition of “Ernie the Eel” at the last Olympics.
Kevin Shone [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Ndola, Zambia
Thursday, April 29, 2004 at 06:24:37 (UTC)
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Hi Ayub...
About different cultures...
I spent 10 years in the northern arctic regions of Canada. The Inuit - Eskimos - consider their cemeteries and burial grounds sacred places and generally off limits to non Inuit people.
One day I asked an Inuit elder if he was upset with all the tourists and visitors tramping through the sacred Inuit cemeteries and burial grounds.
His reply was - "No, not at all because it gives me an opportunity to explain to them a bit about Inuit history, heritage and customs and why Inuit cemeteries and burial grounds are so sacred to us"...
A very WISE old man indeed and a good lesson in life learned by me.
So rather than criticize people about not knowing some of our cultural differences we should take the lead by gently teaching them about "our culture".
Maybe a good lesson for the Minister's secretary and the Iraqis to learn as well...
Peter Dielissen [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
Thursday, April 29, 2004 at 04:09:19 (UTC)
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Hi Keith:
At the present time there is no way to see all of the members. We used to be able to do that and it was a really good way to find old friends. Meantime, just add anyone you are trying to find under the "Looking For" link and you may be pleasantly surprised to see how people surface.
Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Thursday, April 29, 2004 at 03:17:19 (UTC)
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Is there a way to look at the list of our 1496 members? I'd love to scan down the list and just look for names I might recognise without having to post a notice "Searching for ..."
I've re-established contact with one old friend after 33 years and contacted several other persons from GNR in the few weeks since I discovered the site. It is such an interesting site and the e-mail postings are generally excellent.
Long may it continue and congratulations on your 8th birthday.
Keith Binns [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Thursday, April 29, 2004 at 03:00:46 (UTC)
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Talking about chika this and chilapa that, I remember having a drunken conversation with David Phiri, Frank Jackman and Chris my bro, a couple of years ago about the delicacies of the bush, and buffalo balls and the best way to prepare them came to the fore, but for the life of me I can't remember the nyanja name or in Mr Phiri's case the ngoni/shona name. Any takers.
Pat McEnery [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Bromley, Kent, England
Thursday, April 29, 2004 at 02:20:57 (UTC)
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Hi all
Whilst offline, I came across an article in the sports pages of our Newspaper re a young Zambian swimmer training for the Olympics here in Perth, typical of "Murphy's law" the paper was thrown out........so i can't tell you his name but he HAS qualified for the Olympics with his swimming times.....I wish him all the best !! it is nice to have such a positive bit of news especially in these times..and of course having the Zambian/Perth connection too.
Ali
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Thursday, April 29, 2004 at 02:11:43 (UTC)
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Here is a news story that reminded me of the "Skippy" television program that used to be screened on ZNBC many years ago:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4854823/?GT1=3256
Chandru Krishna [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Rockville, Maryland, United States
Thursday, April 29, 2004 at 00:41:40 (UTC)
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Zumla,
You really should try to regrain from saying things here that are patently untrue. If I were to respond to your most recent tripe, in seriatim, I might well be labelled racist again, and booted out of here.
Cut out the baiting, and stick to matters factual.
Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Wednesday, April 28, 2004 at 22:22:59 (UTC)
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CHIKABANGA.
I have in my possession a saved Booklet titled the "Glossary of Chikabanga" issued by the The Northern Rhodesia Chamber of Mines (for use in the Copperbelt Mines)..
Page 1. Glossary of Chikabanga.
ALPHABET AND PRONUNCIATION
INTRODUCTION
Chikabanga is not a language but a Lingua-Franca of many Bantu dialects which has grown as a result of contact between the Bantu tribes and the English, Afrikaans and Portuguese peoples.
Extremely simple to learn by European and African alike, it is a useful medium of expression particularly in Industrial, Agricultural and other working conditions.
Chikabanga is written by means of English letters and though these do not always represent all sounds exactly one may say for all practical purposes that it is written phonetically.
This booklet contains the Alphabet, Accentuation, nouns verbs, etc., and then the glossary from A to Y (no Z) then it also lists various phrases.
So anything you want to know on words or spellings in Chikabanga, contact me.
It has been very amusing at times when my sons and I
sometimes converse on the phone and even this morning when I visited the DMV (Department of Motor Vehicles) it came in handy when I wished to make a remark to my American husband he knows what Maningi M'fazi's.....means....
Hamba Gashle
June
June Bohl (née Walker, formerly McCarthy) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Los Angeles County, California, United States
Wednesday, April 28, 2004 at 21:49:21 (UTC)
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Robert and Chris....
I presume one would learn the language of the area you were posted to. For example..if you were sent to the Eastern province..learning Nyanja would have been wonderful. I know all Indians who come from that part speak the language fluently. The first thing Indian settlers did was to learn the local language! That is why they became successful shopkeepers initially in the Rural areas and then in the Towns and Cities.
Chris...I have received a mail from the Minister's secretary who has sent a quote from ALDER :
CIKABANGA.."Influenced by Bemba in Zambia. Rejected by most Africans because it was imported from Zimbabwe and South Africa by Europeans who did not want Africans to learn English"
And she adds on his behalf..don't try using Chilapalapa in front of an educated Zambian..it is as much an insult as... when Gadaffi pointed the toe end of his right shoe towards Blair recently!
Perhaps we all now need to learn the rules of etiquette when dealing with people of other races and cultures! Reminds me of when KK and his delegation went to China on a State visit in the late sixties and on the menu at the Official State banquet was SNAKE. Somebody shouted "Njoka"!! Many of the Zambians threw up!
Wouldn't it be useful for American soldiers in Iraq to have learnt that walking with boots in Mosques and having rock music blaring out of their Army trucks whilst prayers are being said in Mosques are,for Muslims, a great insult. I do not believe they went through any course in Muslim Rules of Etiquette. Compare this to the British forces there..who have been made aware of such rules..and have a much better rapore with the Iraqis and as a result, less problems! Its all to do with learning about other people and getting to know their sensitivities!!
Ayub Ismail Zumla [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Manchester, United Kingdom
Wednesday, April 28, 2004 at 20:40:42 (UTC)
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A lurker finds voice! A happy birthday to Dave Cooper and sincere thanks for founding the Great North Road website and for those who support and keep it running, Arthur, Craig and Heather (alphabetical order of course). For many years I have been teaching coping skills to families dealing with crisis, for a short six weeks we meet twice a week and then we move on with our lives. The participants are grateful and enthusiastic but as the teacher one never knows the impact those few weeks have had on those lives. Then somewhere down the road I by chance meet two fathers who had attended the course and they have become good friends and meet once a month to hike in the many wonderful trails in our area. Although they share a common problem and a common heartache, they find strength and courage to continue though a new friendship and a shared interest. So is it with the Great North Road. Through this conduit many have found a way to reconnect in a positive way with a part of their lives that for so many years seemed to have been lost forever.
Re the discussions regarding languages. In September we returned to Zambia after an absence of thirty-seven years. We spent four or five days at Luwombwa Camp at Kasanka. The elderly camp cook had worked for many years on Rhodesian Railways, he spoke Chikabanga, Steve and he spent hours sharing their life stories through this medium, delighting in the fact that the younger men in the camp did not understand what they were saying and could not share in their memories or their jokes. In turn Steve could just as well converse with the younger men in Bemba. And yes Doug for your information it was all flavoured with an acquired Canadian accent! An added bonus, our Canadian born and bred son who had traveled with us was lost in wonder at this amazingly revealed talent of his father’s, he had been totally unaware over all these years that his father could do anything but speak Canadian English with an African accent!!!
I have just purchased a book “Dark Star Safari” by Paul Theroux, a journey from Cairo to Capetown. He chronicles his return and travels through Africa after having taught in Malawi and Uganda forty years ago. A wonderful read, and so much of his style of writing and his perceptions reflect our own feelings on returning to the land of our birth after an absence of thirty-seven years.
Steven de Lange [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Langley, British Columbia, Canada
Wednesday, April 28, 2004 at 19:26:30 (UTC)
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Happy Birthday Dawie! Jy moet terug kom jong!
Also Happy birthday to Uncle Ken! If as my friend in China says he is still going around with a begging bowl it means he must have been more honest than Chiluba who robbed millions.
Nicky, you are correct it was called ChiKabanga in NR.
Alix, welcome back.
Cheers - Doug
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Wednesday, April 28, 2004 at 19:12:09 (UTC)
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Languages
With all this talk of languages I thought that I'd share my experience of this morning. I duly delivered my presentation to a group of 45 mainly French speaking World Bank delegates who insisted that everything be interpreted into their mother tongue. This is fine but my 20 minute presentation stretched to about 45 minutes as a result! I ended the presentation with a joke and everyone laughed before the interpretor started the translation so I really wonder about their inability to understand English!!! There were a few English speaking folk present including two from Lusaka. I was too busy seeing that the group didn't come to harm in the tunnel so I wasn't able to ask the two from Zambia if they read The Lowdown Heather.
Cheers
David Gray [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
South Africa
Wednesday, April 28, 2004 at 18:30:52 (UTC)
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Robert H
When Ayub mentions it would have been preferable for the Europeans to learn the native tongue, I was wondering which language he had in mind.
Good question. Perhaps his highly educated and very senior Zambian minister buddy would wish to opine?
Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Wednesday, April 28, 2004 at 17:57:17 (UTC)
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William Knott,
The White Fathers in Abercorn ran classes for those wishing to learn an African language. I still have the books. Some books had primitive drawings with the vernacular alongside, others were in plain text.
When Ayub mentions it would have been preferable for the Europeans to learn the native tongue, I was wondering which language he had in mind.
Bob Huntley
Robert Huntley [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Carmel, California, United States
Wednesday, April 28, 2004 at 16:37:31 (UTC)
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Dawie,
Happies to you, happies to you.
Jou blikskottel. wwis jy?
I joined Daves site about 3 mths after it opened and do wish him al the best in his Dutch retreat.
Doug ,
Cant recall if we had cinjanja as an option at Gilbert Rennie, but I do recall that, while in Mufulira, my Mom and I went to cibemba lessons for a few years. My Dad learned it for his underground work and we were not ready to be upstaged by him.
Taught by a chap who was tied into the churches in some way. I guess it was a good way to earn a few more tickies.
William Knott [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Wednesday, April 28, 2004 at 15:40:49 (UTC)
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Ken Rose
Best wishes on your birthday
Arthur
The vegetables and other horticultural produce (mostly roses tothe Netherlands) that are exported to Europe are mostly grown by commercial farmers as it requires enormous capital investment in greenhouses. cold roooms etc. Where it is grown by small scale farmers, the investment in cold rooms etc is made by the commercial farmers and it is done under an 'outgrowers' scheme with the commercial farmers providing infrastructure, pre-season finance, extension services and logitics. I'm afraid I cannot say whether the small scale farmers receive a fair deal as this depends very much on who they are selling to locally, and who the farmer is exporting to.
Beth
Shoe shopping is not on my list of things to do in the next few months, but if you email me with what you would like, I will give you my recommendations and all the other information that you need.
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Wednesday, April 28, 2004 at 15:20:53 (UTC)
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I am mostly a lurker so to post twice in one day is quite something for me. However I too want to add my voice to all who give thanks to Dave Cooper for starting this wonderful site. I did try to email him but it was returned to me so this is an open letter which I hope Dave will read:
Dear Dave,
I haven't heard from you or about you for months and hope all is well. I believe today is the GNR 10th anniversary and if you still read the notice board I am sure you will have seen the various letters written in, all of them letters of gratitude and I want to add mine to those letters. I went to South Africa in February and met up with four old Zambian school friends, girls that were brought together through my contact with the GNR. We hadn't seen one another in over 30 years but those years just seemed to slip away whilst we tried to catch up in the short time we had together.
People are constantly amazed when I tell them how I have met up or made contact with so many old school friends and just this week-end my best friend from school days visited me in UK. Since we first made contact in October 2002 we have managed to see one another four times despite the fact that Barbara lives in Johannesburg. What is so amazing and sad is that we didn't live that far apart when I lived in Johannesburg and I did try and trace her when I first arrived in South Africa from Zambia but without success. And then you had the brilliant idea of setting up this wonderful site and the rest is history.
Thanks again and good luck and good health.
Betty Mahady (née Horn) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
United Kingdom
Wednesday, April 28, 2004 at 14:38:58 (UTC)
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Hi Nicky, with all the talk about Fanikalo I have been waiting for somebody to mention the record which was absolutely hilarious. I can still remember parts of it, for instance the verse "Jim balala lo mkuku, Jim balala lo mkuku, missus hamba chia golf, me babysit, fanikalo"
I am sure I have the spelling all wrong! Anybody else remember the song and some more verses?
Betty Mahady (née Horn) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
United Kingdom
Wednesday, April 28, 2004 at 14:22:38 (UTC)
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Dave Cooper ......Happy Birthday to you .....as well as the GNR !!!
Ali
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Wednesday, April 28, 2004 at 14:13:25 (UTC)
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Dave & the GREAT NORTH ROAD.org.
Happy - Happy Birthday ! ! !
Thanks also to the mighty team of Craig, Arty & Heather
who continue to brighten our lives every day in many
special ways...
Sue Coughlan (née Forde) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, WA, Australia
Wednesday, April 28, 2004 at 14:07:18 (UTC)
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Northerners
Eight years ago today, the following made it's way onto the WWW:
Northern Rhodesians!
Some months ago us Northerners grumbled about having to sit at the same Web table as our less fortunate neighbours from the "other side" of the Zambesi. So we scrummed together and came up with a Web site for Northern Rhodesians. If you're interested, you can find "Northern Rhodesians Worldwide" at www.greatnorthroad.org. It's release 1.0, so it will be ameliorated and improved in time. It's graphic-rich, and if you don't have something like Netscape Navigator 2.0 as your browser, you probably won't be able to see much of the information, as it was intended to be designed using tables, frames, special alignment, graphic rules, and so on.
Dave Cooper (cooperd@best.com) San Francisco, CA, USA - Sunday, April 28, 1996 at 04:40:29 (WAST)
The date is also significant, in that is is also Dave Cooper's birthday.
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Wednesday, April 28, 2004 at 13:30:39 (UTC)
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Hilry,
Yes there are many South African and Zimbabwean staff in the NHS. What is worrying is that so many skilled Zimbabweans have left the country and sought Asylum in the UK. Despot Mugabe better realise that soon all the skilled workforce will have left Zimbabwe...most will settle here and not return! Feel sorry for the ordinary folk there. These are trying times for a once economically strong country. Lets hope something is done before it becomes another North Korea.
Ayub Ismail Zumla [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Manchester, United Kingdom
Wednesday, April 28, 2004 at 12:58:45 (UTC)
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Gordon
I was in Mbala the Easter weekend just gone and drove past the Abercorn Arms, a shadow of its former glory I am afraid. I don’t know if the Grasshopper Inn was up and running at that time. My dad moved to Kasama in 1946 so your folks may very well have bumped into him, he worked at PDC Stores those days.
Ali
Welcome back on line, it has been soooooo quite while you have been off.
Kevin Shone [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Ndola, Zambia
Wednesday, April 28, 2004 at 12:33:55 (UTC)
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At the risk of being shot down by our esteemed founder, Happy Birthday, Dawie!
Thanks for your foresight in starting this website. You have brought many old and new friends together. People from across the globe have found each other, been able to reminisce about good times and special people in their lives and a country that is second to none.
Wherever you are today, may your day be filled with good thoughts and the knowledge that you are not forgotten.
Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Wednesday, April 28, 2004 at 11:58:00 (UTC)
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Hi all
I am back online yahoooo........apart from being back on dial-up until the slowest organisation in the world gets their A into G , and connects me to broard band....
thank goodness I now can read the message board without eye strain.(try reading the GNR on a 3inch screen, one message takes about 3-4 pages..(my mobile phone)
regarding the Language debate no matter where in the world , men/women need to commmunicate and regardless to racisim etc if there is a language that can be understood between people than so be it..
Artie.
the birthday is the GNR ? is it not?
Ali
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Wednesday, April 28, 2004 at 09:03:05 (UTC)
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Gordon Foster,
That was a great story of your travels around the country 55 years ago. I did enjoy it.
What are you doing now in Antigua? Sounds like another wonderful spot in the Caribbean.
Keith Binns [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Wednesday, April 28, 2004 at 07:58:05 (UTC)
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DOUG
Yes it was certainly a well written and intresting book. SGB certainly lived no ordinary life....quite an elaborate man with a house to equal. No wonder Lorna took refuge in the tower with her violin playing to an audience of sympathetic hyeans. Maybe she'd have been happier in the first house, a white washed, thatched rondavel. I know I would have.
Anona Balloch [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
United Kingdom
Wednesday, April 28, 2004 at 06:58:21 (UTC)
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After many pleasant evenings running through the GNR contributions. Firstly I realised just how many names I do not know, or can't recognise or in fact probably never knew. I spent a couple of decades on the Copperbelt and feel I would like to try and add a few contributions of my own.
In 1949 whilst attending R.E.P.S. Prep School, way out in the Matopos Hills, (Matabeleland) my father decided we should make the safari up to see "Uncle Cyril" (Cyril Boote a.k.a. "Bootee") who worked for the Red Locust Control at Mbeya/Abercorn. And so two days later our Morris 10 packed with F+M+2 Kids + tents + mosquito nets +++ set off via Vic. Falls/Livingstone, Lusaka, B. Hill, K. Mposhi.....
All went fine till we got somewhere around Kapiri Mposhi and there we ran out of good road. It was wet season and the wheel ruts in the road were humungous. Grounded on the rut in the middle the Morris's wheels just couldn't reach the ground.
With the help of a grader and a 4 wheel drive vehicle we were deposited on the shoulder. Slowly we skidded and pushed the overloaded Morris until we got to the Kapiri turnoff there we bought a couple more 4 gallon cans of petrol and set off slowly up the Great North Road. There was practically no other traffic on the road which was fortunate as we zigzaged up covering most of the width of the road. I do not know what they made the roads with in those days but it was almost impassable in the rain. 40 miles or so up the road surface changed abruptly. This was a non-skid surface but as we clocked up the miles we got into "heavy corrugation country". We reached Kasama three hard days later.
"Bootee" and family gave us a wonderful reception. Cyril, a Mechanical Engineer, took time off to replace both rear spring centre bolts, a radiator mounting and a cracked oil pipe.
Young David Boote we managed to find again 55 years later...through the GNR.....and he and my brother are now trying to update the family tree.
The river crossings, two I believe, were handled well and the roads once clear of the Kapiri area were pretty good.
As you might expect hospitality everywhere in those days was unbelievable. The local people in the missions and villages were very well dressed, very polite and eager to talk to us whenever they had the chance. Eggs at the Kasama Market were a shilling a dozen for large, 10p a doz. for med. and 6p. a doz. for small eggs. Condensed Milk was the order of the day and everybody ate local food with the possible exception of the good old Fray Bentos Corned Beef and Heinz Baked Beans.
The nearby Abercorn Arms was the only hotel around and the local watering hole. However, the Government Rest Houses were available almost everywhere at I think 3s. 6p. per head per night. Breakfast was available but I cannot remember what this might have cost. Anything "Government" was noticably immacculate. The bottom 5 ft. of all the trees were blancoed white. All fences, signs etc. were well kept and everything had an incredibly orderly air about it. Compare this with today!
This story has to end here as from Abercorn my father decided to look up yet another relative in Malawi. We got back to Matopos Hotel seven weeks and 9,000 miles later.
Gordon Foster [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Antigua, West Indies, Antigua
Wednesday, April 28, 2004 at 03:48:11 (UTC)
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Ayub,
If they had tried to teach everyone English there would have been a very righteous outcry of colonialism! It would also have taken far too long. Every dangerous environment generates it's own sub-dialect that aids the safety of those there. Chikabanga was/is a sub-language, if you like, that goes a little bit further, to cover the wide variety of languages spoken by the workers at all levels.
I also have grave doubts that the NHS is about to employ non-English speaking nurses, even if they do come from the (enlarged) EU. There are too many compensation cases already! I do however acknowledge the great contribution of the nurses from SA, Zimbabwe, Zambia having met several during an enforced stay in hospital about 2 years ago.
Hilry
Hilry Wilson (née Cartwright, formerly Wright) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Ayr, Scotland, United Kingdom
Tuesday, April 27, 2004 at 21:40:36 (UTC)
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Hilry,
Perhaps the better solution then was to teach all the workers English. We are soon going to have a massive problem here in the UK with thousands of people of Eastern European origin already here and more expected soon....and the thousands who have already come here from Iraq and Kurdish areas...very few of them speak any English. At least many early immigrants (West Indians and Asians from Africa) had a good command of English! Most of these recent immigrants know ziltch English!!! And Tony Blair has announced today that work permits given to people from Asia and other Third world countries will be drastically reduced..in favour of non-English speaking Eastern Europeans! Now imagine a South African Nurse with command over the English language will now find it extremely difficult to obtain a work Permit. Currently there are many S. African, Zimbabwean, Sri Lankan, Indian,Phillipino nurses working in the UK NHS. All speaking good English!
Anyone currently thinking about coming to the UK on a work permit...better hurry up!!
See how Language creates so many problems!!
Ayub Ismail Zumla [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Manchester, United Kingdom
Tuesday, April 27, 2004 at 21:07:55 (UTC)
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Tomorrow (Wednesday) our former President Dr. Kenneth David Kaunda, turns 80! Whatever one thinks of him lets wish him a happy birthday! According to recent reports he seems to have reclaimed the accolade of "Father of the nation"..and has found a new friend in the present Zambian leader. Zambian Churches are also looking to him to mediate between the State and the Church. Anyone think he may be making a comeback? Last time I saw him was at a Conference at Manchester University on Third world Debt (some of it was borrowed whilst he was in power!!!) a few years ago..he seemed to be in good health! Still uses the White hankie! Recently he was in South Africa ...before the Elections there. I think he is testing the ground! Good Golfer he was...so he knows his way around the course .Anyone on the board know who holds the World's oldest Head of State title?
Ayub Ismail Zumla [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Manchester, United Kingdom
Tuesday, April 27, 2004 at 20:39:55 (UTC)
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It is a pity the discussion on Chikabanga/Fanikalo seems to dwell on the white/black divide. The underground mines are dangerous places and communication is essential. Not only black Africans of varied languages work(ed) there, but also white Africans and expatriates of almost as many different languages. In this day and age, you might expect to be tested for understanding of the official language before you were given employment. A crash course in Chikabanga meant all persons underground could understand commands - vital for safety and in emergencies. Chikabanga is not a developed language, few nuances and niceties, and yes, it is mostly about commands, but if the command is to flee, to save your life, are you going to argue? Perhaps you might be thankful you understood.
Yes, I agree one should make an effort to learn the local language of the place where one lives, but that takes some considerable time. Surely better, in the short term, a system to ensure vital communication is understood.
And, yes, before someone asks, I did work underground in Zambia.
Hilry Wilson (née Cartwright, formerly Wright) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Ayr, Scotland, United Kingdom
Tuesday, April 27, 2004 at 20:11:57 (UTC)
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Doug
It brought back memories reading your paragraph in Fanikalo.If my memory serves me right :
When we get old,we will die, the speaking of funikalo will also die. The youth of today don't want to speak funikalo. Stay well. I always thought Gashe meaning careful.or is gashle a different word?
Why does eveyone on here call it Fanakalo. When on the copperbelt we and the africans said Fanikalo(like this) Although mostly on the copperbelt we used to name it as Chikabanga.
I think the name of the lingo came from the Africans, due to when they were shown how to do something the last word was always fanikalo(like this)
We always treated Chikabanga as a form of communication and not in derocative terms, people just like to twist the facts.
Any one remember the song Fanikalo?
Nicky Kontou [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Tuesday, April 27, 2004 at 18:58:09 (UTC)
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Keith
I was basically saying that when us when us 'good old boys' die, Fanakalo will also die because today's youngsters do not want to learn it.
Zumla
I seem to remember that C(h)inyanja was taught at Gilbert Rennie? Bill can you recall this?
Anona
'The Africa House' has come up for discussion on the board in past years. I read the book and found it extremely interesting. Christina Lamb has done an excellent job of capturing the feeling of one man's African dream. In the introduction she says, "More than anywhere I had ever seen, Shiwa Ngandu seemed to symbolize the arrogance, paternalism, vision, and sheer bloody-mindedness of British colonials in Africa". What magnificent arrogance I would add!
I am now sorry that I never visited while Gore-Brown was still alive. I did visit Shiwa House a few years ago, just as the renovation effort was starting. As a builder I was shocked at what this man had accomplished in those primitive days. Even today with access via tarred road and trained artisans, engineers and architects it would be a major construction project. He built the house only with instructions from the British Army building manual. He was helped by a couple of army friends at the start, but of course the main work was done by the Bemba people who up to that stage had never seen a nail or a saw before. Bricks and roof tiles were made on site from the lakeside clay. Trees were cut down and sawn up for timber but cement had to be transported from the railhead at Broken Hill across the Congo pedicle, up the Luapula River on canoe and finally portered on somebodies head for the last stretch.
Gore-Brown got his first cattle from my father-in-law Frank Rumsey who had started ranching further north at Mbesuma near Chinsali. You can find the story of Rumsey and Thorton on www.nrzam.org.uk under misselaneous / people.
Cheers - Doug
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Tuesday, April 27, 2004 at 18:22:19 (UTC)
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Tamm,
No I have no opinion about this. i was merely expressing the opinion a this official whom I know well. He is one of the most moderate Zambian Government Ministers..one who sincerely believes in Multi-racialism..and it is because of people like him that Zambia has become much more Democratic (with a free Market economy) than it was during KK's era. Now if someone like him expresses this opinion..I do listen! You wouldn't want someone like him to opt out of Politics would you...and have some despot like Mugabe replace him..or would you???
In any case.I would rather learn the proper ancestoral language(s) of an indigenous population rather than make up and use one which probably has very little linguistic value!
Ayub Ismail Zumla [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Manchester, United Kingdom
Tuesday, April 27, 2004 at 17:42:22 (UTC)
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Zumla
I was just trying to cite an opinion expressed by a Government official.
You left out the bit that this chap was a highly postioned, and highly educated Zambia Government official. I usually consider opinions by such highly rated people as something that should be heard. But when such people start throwing histrical untruths and distortions, then it is up to us to challenge that. There was no discussion about slavery and immigration policies in the UK. The conversation was about this highly placed official saying that Fanagalo was a white mans invention used to issue instructions to blacks. That is patently untrue. Everyone knows that (except you it seems), and when such distortions/lies are spread, they should be challenged.
If the shoe was on the other foot, you might be accused of "baiting".
Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Tuesday, April 27, 2004 at 17:20:54 (UTC)
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Hi Hilton -
Thank you for that wonderful piece on EUro Englis which look like becoming more germanified than the real fake!!!
Regards
Kris
Kristien E. Massie (née Mostert, formerly Van Woenssel) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
United Kingdom
Tuesday, April 27, 2004 at 12:32:32 (UTC)
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with all this talk about language brought to mind this little quip-------------
The European Commission has just announced an agreement
whereby English will be the official language of the EU
rather than German which was the other possibility. As part
of the negotiations, Her Majesty's Government conceded that
English spelling had some room for improvement and has accepted
a 5 year phase-in plan that would be known as "Euro-English".
In the first year, "s" will replace the soft "c". Sertainly,
this will make the sivil servants jump with joy. The hard "c"
will be dropped in favour of the"k". This should klear up
konfusion and keyboards kan have 1 less letter.
There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year,
when the troublesome "ph" will be replaced with "f". This
will make words like "fotograf" 20% shorter.
In the 3rd year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be
ekspekted to reach the stage where more komplikated changes
are possible. Governments will enkorage the removal of double
letters, which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling.
Also, al wil agre that the horible mes of the silent "e"s in
the language is disgraseful, and they should go away.
By the fourth year, peopl wil be reseptiv to steps such as
replasing "th" with "z" and "w" with "v". During ze fifz year,
ze unesesary "o" kan be dropd from vords kontaining "ou" and
similar changes vud of kors be aplid to ozer kombinations of
leters.
After zis fifz yer, ve vil hav a reli sensibl riten styl. Zer
vil be no mor trubl or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi
to understand ech ozer. Ze drem vil finali kum tru! And zen
ve vil tak over ze world!
Hilton Williams [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Brisbane, Australia
Tuesday, April 27, 2004 at 11:54:30 (UTC)
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I was just trying to cite an opinion expressed by a Government official. Perhaps we all are at fault as we "expatriates" never made an attempt to learn the local languages. None of the educational institutions prior to independence had a local language as an optional subject. I assume the very same who dismiss this concept of learning the language(of) of a host nation will very willingly throw their weight behind the UK Home Secretary who has now made the abilitity to understand and communicate in English a major requirement for gaining British Citizenship! Perhaps our indigenous Zambian friends on the GNR Board might want to express their opinion on Chilapalapa. It is better to learn and respect what another finds distasteful..than to tell him what is distasteful for him. Failing that one could find oneself in a pretty awkward situation.Just ask Mr Ron Atkinson (ex ITV football pundit)!!!
Anyone in the USA have an idea about what "language" was developed in the deep South to communicate with the Slaves? It would be interesting to know and draw comparisons.
Ayub Ismail Zumla [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Manchester, United Kingdom
Tuesday, April 27, 2004 at 11:05:10 (UTC)
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BETH
How lovely to hear from you.....yes I did hear about Mike...so sad when a school chum dies. Will deff em you tomorrow.....am off duty and must catch a train to Brighton.....find a soft spot on the pebbled beach and contemplate the infinitive!!!
NORTHERNERS
Has anyone read "The Africa House"....a biography of Stewart Gore-Browne? There is a passage on Sir Roy Welensky and his move to 24 Central Ave, BH. If anyone wants to read this book I will post it on to you
Anona Balloch [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
United Kingdom
Tuesday, April 27, 2004 at 10:04:50 (UTC)
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Celebrating 10 years of democracy here today, my hus band who works on mines all over southern Africa says that Fanakalo is still the lingua franca of the mines and that black and white alike don't find it insulting - rather it is imperative for obvious reasons as pointed out by Doug.
I think it goes some way to bringing people together rather than dividing them - I wish that people would see the positives rather than the negatives.
God Bless Africa!
Jilly
Jill Aplin [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
South Africa
Tuesday, April 27, 2004 at 06:55:52 (UTC)
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Chris,
It wasn't a "trick question". I was just saying that one's memory sometimes stores pieces of useless information and there can be no way I would ever need to know the word for arm badge in English let alone Chikabanga. If I was pointing out a sergeant, say in our great ANZAC parades around Australia yesterday, I would say "Look at his stripes" or if he was an officer I would refer to his epaulettes!
Keith
Keith Binns [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Tuesday, April 27, 2004 at 03:22:55 (UTC)
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Keith Binns writes:
One of the most useless words in any language ever has to be "arm badge". Why would anybody ever use it?
This is surely a trick question? But if not, then please consider anyone in a military environment. What would the stripes on his right arm identifying him/her as a e.g. Sergeant be called? Arm badge, kabanga?? I cannot be certain what would make this "useless words".
Perhaps I have the bull by the udder, and may need some help.
Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Tuesday, April 27, 2004 at 01:53:31 (UTC)
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Doug,
Somebody is bound to ask you this so it may as well be me! Please translate that final paragraph. I surprised myself by recognising a couple of the words. I laughed as I read it out loud to myself and it reminded me of being back in Zambia.
One of the most useless words in any language ever has to be "arm badge". Why would anybody ever use it? However it is one of the words I remember in Chikabanga - chingolongolo. I really have no idea why that word has remained with me all this time. Maybe it is because it is not unlike Chingola where I lived.
I liked the expression Copper Chopper on your profile. I'm surprised I never came across it before and yet it is such an obvious one.
All the best......
Keith Binns [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Tuesday, April 27, 2004 at 01:35:12 (UTC)
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Chris Tam hits it on the head. Without the Lingua Franca devised by the mining companies there would have been no way to communicate with the disparate labour force.
I spoke Shona and Sindebele and then learned Chibemba after moving north. Without Fanagalo all three would not have been of much use.
When I hear of some politician mouthing off about insults and degradation of the local population, I stop to think of the schools, doctors and hospitals that were dedicated for their use. I do wish someone would tell me some of the positives of colonialism......I could add to their collective wisdom
Robert Huntley [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Carmel, California, United States
Monday, April 26, 2004 at 19:47:01 (UTC)
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Beth
That's great! I will email you.
Fanakalo was developed as the language on the mines because so many people from different language groups came to work on the mines and needed to understand one another, especialy for safety reasons. If there was danger somebody would shout "Baleka" and everybody would run away. In our new South Africa this would have to be repeated in the 11 official languages by which time the rock would have fallen and people would be dead.
Fanakalo could be understood throughout southern and central Africa in the same way that Swahili is understood throughout east Africa and most of the Congo. It was far more widely understood and usefull than any single indigenous language. We used to use it to talk with the Portugese in Mozambique.
kiSwahili the language used by the Arab slavers, that has a similar history to Fanakalo, being a simplified mix of east African languages and Arabic is strangely very popular among Africans and is still widely used in East Africa.
Unfortunately Fanakalo is resented by the educated southern African and is slowly dying out.
Skati tina madala, tina ifwa, lo kuluma ka lo Funikalo ena azi ifwa futi. Lo pikanin ka lo manje ikona funa funda kuluma lo Funakalo. Shala gashle.
Cheers - Doug
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Monday, April 26, 2004 at 19:43:03 (UTC)
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From Zumla's posting:
Quote
He then explained to me that it was a language developed by the White man to address the Black man in colonial times. He further went on to state that the language was all to do with giving orders to Black workers and servants servants. For example, the term HAMBA LAPA...means come here...Furmiza..hurry up.....
Now I am no expert on African languages...can anyone on the GNR site throw some light on this?
END QUOTE
Yet another distortion. The language developed in the mining industry in South Africa. The mining companies imported laborers from all over the sub continent, all with their own languages/dialects. In order to communicate, mankind has a particular knack of massaging/adopting certain common sounding terms/phrases and collate these into a "new langauage". (Much like it is in e.g. Hawaii where cane labor from Japan, China, Phillipines, Portugal, Latin Countries, and local Hawaiians, came up with a "pidgin" English, which everybody seems to understand, and therefore able to communicate smoothly.) In SA, the mining industry, recognising the immense value of Fanagalo, taught it during training sessions for newly arrived mine workers. The language spread to neighboring Rhodesias/Nyasaland, Bechuanaland etc. as workers returned home.
To say that Fanagalo was a white man's invention to insult blacks is utter BS and yet another example of the re writing of African history.
Did you not know that?
Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Monday, April 26, 2004 at 18:48:59 (UTC)
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Ayub we had to have a language that we all could converse in and believe me without it it would have been chaotic, the gentle man you were chatting to sounds like a lot of standard sixes of there time who thought that they had the answer to every thing but actually knew nothing, if you see him again tell him that Hamba Lapa means go there not come here, which is boya lapa Johnny.
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Monday, April 26, 2004 at 18:28:29 (UTC)
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Recently I met up with a high ranking(and extremely highly educated) Zambian Government official whilst he was on a visit to the UK and funnily enough we talked about the various Zambian Languages and Dialects and were having a good laugh at my prounciations of words in Chinyanja. When the word CHILAPALAPA was mentioned he became serious and told me that it was insulting to address a Black Zambian in that language. He then explained to me that it was a language developed by the White man to address the Black man in colonial times. He further went on to state that the language was all to do with giving orders to Black workers and servants servants. For example, the term HAMBA LAPA...means come here...Furmiza..hurry up.....
Now I am no expert on African languages...can anyone on the GNR site throw some light on this?
Ayub Ismail Zumla [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Manchester, United Kingdom
Monday, April 26, 2004 at 17:43:52 (UTC)
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Philip
Loved your croc story. I always try to guess the outcome of an unfolding story and I was certain that your friend was going to try attaching the rope to a sleeping crocodile. Lucky you didn't find bangles in the stomach!
Arthur
I was researching a power point presentation I have to deliver at the Huguenot Tunnel on Wednesday and discovered that the original Great North Road started in Cape Town and went north via the Bains Kloof Pass to Ceres then joined the current National Road N1 on its way to Messina (now Musina) and Beitbridge. When the du Toits Kloof Pass was opened in 1948 that became the N1 and my source claimed that it also became the GNR. When the Huguenot Tunnel opened in 1988 the new 11 km shorter route became the N1 and thus the GNR. So for the next month I have responsibility for a part of the new GNR. I'd like to believe it but I'm sure that the old Bains Kloof route is the actual GNR envisaged by Rhodes. If you set out on the N1 in Cape Town you will eventually join the GNR in Zambia.
How far did the Great North Road actually go - I don't think it made it to Cairo. I'd appreciate some thoughts on the subject. I suppose this has been discussed ad nauseum in the past - sorry if that is the case. By the way Philip, the "nauseum" bit was thrown in especially for you in memory of your crocodile!
Cheers
David Gray [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
South Africa
Monday, April 26, 2004 at 17:33:55 (UTC)
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Anona,
Welcome! How fabulous to see your name on the GNR site. The last time we were together was at Mike Thies' after the very first reunion - 1986????? How are Trevor and Bev? I take it you know Mike died a few years ago? Please email me via the site - I'd love to hear from you again.
Linda - will email you from the office tomorrow. Alison and I met up in July last year (thanks so much for getting us together) - we both decided we hadn't changed at all in over 40+ years!! A very Belated Happy birthday to you - sorry I missed it but I was away in Mauritius.
Charlie C - I missed your birthday too - we were at a wedding down in Bloemfontein. However, did toast you along with David!!!! Hope you had a great day. Bumped into Val Brake on Tuesday evening and we are going to have a get together at 148 soon, with Sheilagh. Any chance you'll be up this way soon? Tony Sparks - if you're out there, please give me a shout. Peter F. is ignoring my calls.
Belated Happy Birthday to you too Maeve B. - Crumbs, aren't we getting on!!!! But thank heavens - you'll always be older than me, albeit a few months. Why don't we hear from you any more?
Jackie M - are you going to the Canadian get together??
We Broken Hillians need a representative there.
Doug - how are you?? There's a possiblity that I may be in your part of the world soon. Shall email you with dates and may be we can share a pint. Please give Francois a big hug for me.
Great news - DV. David, Shelly and I are holidaying in Zambia next year (Southern Luangwa) - Heather - isn't it time you bought some new shoes - we want to sit down with you and plan our holiday!!!!! If you see Mike, Doug or Vernon - please tell them to get their spare rooms ready. Thanks
Bit of totally useless information - Krissy McCauley is my daughters best friend - now living in Florida. She misses her terribly.
'later
Elspeth Lloyd (née Robertson) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Blairgowrie, Johannesburg, South Africa
Monday, April 26, 2004 at 14:59:51 (UTC)
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Gray Branfield,a friend who spent a good few days on the Kafue at the River Lure with me eight years back was tragically killed in Iraq.
The call of the fish eagle shall bring to mind the laughter we shared both on the Zambezi and Kafue.
The setting sun over the mighty plains of Senanga brings the radiance of your aura.
Goodbye my friend......and save some fish for me on the rivers up there.....you did not do it down here
Chris Swart [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Kitwe, Zambia
Monday, April 26, 2004 at 14:19:41 (UTC)
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Ti'jean,
or Johnny in french.
And me old mate, Doug.
In my limited knowledge of isiZulu, after one year of it at Wits in the 60's, one of the the things that I have retained was the 'proper' pronunciation of some of the sounds, as taught by the Zulu prof.
The x and the q and the h etc. The h is not really 'sh' but more in the back of the throat so that it comes out like a throat-clearing exercise. The 'x' is a sideways click of the inner cheek, the 'q' is a labial tongue click and so on. blah blah.
And don't get onto to the San languges! ! !
Anyhowsomever, it all is subject to modification in english - the one language that appropriates words from many languages and then pronounces them in all sorts of fashions, viz Scots and Australian to mention only a few.
All interesting and trust the GNR to provoke debate.
eenuff sed.
Bill
William Knott [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Monday, April 26, 2004 at 13:57:57 (UTC)
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Shaw used to write about the common English word "ghoti", as in "ghoti and chips". His reasoning was that "gh" is pronounced "f" in "enough", "o" as "i" in "women" and "ti" as "sh" in "station". So, ghoti and chips is another way of writing fich and chips.
Peter Bromwich [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Valderrobres, Teruel, Spain
Monday, April 26, 2004 at 07:13:39 (UTC)
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Here is a link to a recent article about malaria treatment in Zambia:
http://allafrica.com/stories/200404220404.html
Chandru Krishna [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Rockville, Maryland, United States
Sunday, April 25, 2004 at 21:43:38 (UTC)
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Johnny,
Bill is right in isiZulu to say 'Hamba Kahle'. You are also almost right in Fanagalo. I have just checked my Fanagalo dictionary and it says goodbye is 'Hamba Gahle. Both versions would be said as 'Hamba Gashly' as you stated.
There is a funny thing in many southern african languages in that the G is pronounced and often written as a K or maybe it's vice-versa. Even in Fanagalo / Fanakalo this is heard. Another example is the Zulu name for Durban. Some write Thekwini as Thegwini. The Twana seem to solve the problem by writing both letters as in Kgotla.
Further why do they omit the s if Kahle is pronounced Gashle(y). How come a language that was only written down for the first time maybe 150 years ago is not spelt phoneticly. It must be the fault of the missionaries who were the first to seriously study the african languages. Many of then we Germans. You can also find this nonsense in Zambia where the sound Ch is written as C, for example Cinyanja, Cibemba.
Fanakolo, in Rhodesia called Chilapalapa, and in Zambia called Chikabanga was used on the mines as a simplified language that was easier for everybody to understand.
English is even worse. We say 'nyf' but write it as 'knife' which phonetically should be pronounced kuniffy. Visit freespeling.com ( with 1 L).
The old story goes about why the English cricket team were so keen to visit South Africa. They had heard that we have Fanny Galore!
Cheers - Doug
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Sunday, April 25, 2004 at 20:53:34 (UTC)
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Dear Billy no I did not no that your example and emphasis on the words meant the same as my fanagalo and for all I could speak a smattering of some of the tribal chatter the main one we ever used was fanagalo and amba gashly was spelt by me exactly as it sounded for go slowly/carefully will any miner bear me out? Johnny.
You should be pleased you canot have any racing where you are after Saterdays results.
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Sunday, April 25, 2004 at 19:23:13 (UTC)
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Hi Philip,
I remember Mike Lazarevic's farm. Mike used to manufacture wire-cut bricks, some of which we used to build the houses below 23rd Avenue in Nkana. The pug-mill for the clay was driven by a water wheel, one of two I seem to recall. The clay pits were going to be used for breeding fish, but whether this became a reality I don't know.
Briad Coase and I used to do farm patrols from Mindola Police Substation in 1954 and the visit to Mike's farm was usually left until last as Mike was a very generous welcoming host.
Regards, Mike
Mike Wilson [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Dawlish, Devon, United Kingdom
Sunday, April 25, 2004 at 17:27:11 (UTC)
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Sorry campers about the bum info on the gee gees,
Gin Palace did finish 3rd but they had backed it down from 10/1 to 9/2 favourite, Scot mail boy ran a good race for 3/4 of the distance but then faded away, they showed one man on the rails watching the race who stood to win 1.6 million if it had won, some competition he was in I think, better luck next time Johnny.
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Sunday, April 25, 2004 at 10:34:07 (UTC)
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Re:names of trees
When I was expecting my fifth and last baby, after a run of 3 boys, I gently toyed with girl's names, and the only two that appealed were Acacia, and Cassia. I ended up letting the children name the new arrival, Jemima-Jayne Acacia. When researching the origins of "Jemima", I discovered that she was a daughter of Job, and so was Cassia. We rejected our then two year olds pleas for us to call the pooey new baby "Dinosaur Electric"; now she is l5 months old we sometimes wonder if Dinosaur Electric would not have been an apt name for her. She is quite wild and active, and since another wonderful parcel of kudo biltong arrived from my mom in capetown, she has learnt how to say "biltong" and point to the cupboard where I store it. Thanks to all my loyal friends "darn sarf" who send me regular parcels of pro-nutro, and Ina Paarmans sauces, you keep me sane!
Ciao, Megz
Meg Rybicki (formerly Margaret) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Mullanyduff, Co Leitrim, Ireland
Saturday, April 24, 2004 at 23:54:57 (UTC)
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Northerners !
I dropped Peter Bennett a line a few days ago as I had been watching his travel reports on his website which suddenly seemed to have stopped back in December last year, I was concerned a little that he was OK.
You'll all be glad to hear that he's fine and has even set off on another adventure in Africa. I'm sure he won't mind if I paste his reply to me below.
Arthur,
Good to hear from you. I got back to London on 22 December - after 100 days on the road!
In February I set off to cross Africa west to east. I have been able to do most of it overland but I had to fly from N'Djamena to Khartoum and tonight I fly on to Asmara for a week or so before flying back to UK.
My diary website text is up to date as far as Ethiopia but that means there is still Sudan and Egypt to add from Dec 2003... and then of course a whole new chapter on the "Sahel Sojourn".
I am returning to Zanzibar this summer to work on the film festival and after that I have no definite plans. You never know it may even be time to settle down and go back to work!
Thanks for checking up on me, best wishes to you and all at GNR
Peter
And now on to the trees:
- Acacia Karroo Mimosa Thorn
- Albizia Umbola & Ant Hill
- Aloe or Flame-tree
- Bamboo
- Banana
- Baobab leaf and green fruit (cream of tartar)
- Binduru Bamboo
- Cabbage tree
- Camel thorn
- Cassia
- Flamboyant Madagusca
- Franzipani
- Ilala - vegetable ivory
- Jacaranda
- Mango tree - flowers
- M'sasa
- Pawpaw
- Wattle
I take no responsibility for the names which were supplied with the photos by Bob Eglington. The only trees I ever took notice of had fruit on them, birds nests in them, blueskops or snakes attached to them, or had suitable small branches to make katties with.
Up to now Jilly is in the lead. I will plant another bunch of tree photos early next month here on the message board. Sorry the quality of the pics are not up to modern standards, the slides Bob copied must be at least 40 years old and the colour tends to go after this amount of time, unless it is Kodachrome 25, with it's fantastic stable dye sublimation emulsion.
Well done everyone !
Ron,
If your browser has stopped showing the photo image eagles have you checked out that your internet settings are OK? Assuming you're using Windows, go to Control Panel, Internet Options, click on the Advanced Tab and in the Mulitimedia settings make sure the "Show Pictures" box is ticked. Other than that all I can assume is that perhaps it is Government>/i> settings preventing you downloading photos in your neck of the woods. I can attach the files to an e-mail for you if you wish, 18 tree photos amount to around 580kb, so not too big a file.
Chandru,
Thanks for the interesting links. I went back to Sainsburys supermarket this week and there was no greens from Zambia at all. The produce I picked up last week was all "Organic", hence the price was quite high. I was pleased to read on the first link that the small farmers were getting in on the act as well. Perhaps Heather will let us know if the poorer people on the ground are actually getting paid a reasonable amount for the produce. Here in the UK the supermarkets can force down the price of farmed goods to the detriment of farmers, at one point a packet of crisps cost more than a grown on lamb.
As for nshima, well I can take it or leave it, and mostly leave it. Or depending on how much one has had to drink, empty the plate into my lap.
Ali,
Trish can only get me to the supermarket if I'm hungry. Hence the granadillas didn't last it back to the car together with a few other bits and pieces I had picked up.
Vivienne,
Since I came back from Zambia I have this feeling that I must go back home again, at least one more time in my life.
I do know how you feel. The photo of the baobab tree especially makes me think of Zambia, standing as a sentinel at the side of the dry, dusty, dirt road, probably been standing there for the last 40 years or more since I left, the road leading into the unseen distance over the brow, and like life, you never know what new adventure, sights or feelings await you next on your travels through life.
Charlie,
Well I have to now don't I? BH was a indeed a one cart-horse town. Or was it an iron-horse town? In the days before petrol came along.
Philip/Kate/Glen/Dave
I have a complete 1961ish KBH year book scanned, I will find some photos of the teachers you all mention.
Alan Hogg,
Here's to your trip back home. I'm sure you'll all love it. Heather will I'm sure let you know the ropes. ALL the places we stopped at in Livingstone, Monze, Kitwe, Kapishya, and Siavonga were excellent and also very reasonably priced.
Here's a couple of photos taken on the Livingstone to Lusaka road.
The North Western Hotel
In the early days the Livingstone to Lusaka Road was the original line of the Great North Road.
The roads are mostly in excellent condition, especially the Great North Road ! I took loads of "road" photos for that reason. And the petrol pump is still available between Lusaka and Kitwe at BH (aka New Kabul), slow down though or you might miss it.
Philip,
Good one.
Craig,
Thanks for fixing my HTML cock-up in my last posting.
David Hoyle,
It is not only our 1,500th member coming up, but another event is almost upon us on the 28th of this month, a double birthday in fact. Search around the site for clues.
I'll be back early next month to post a photo or two that our members have sent in and will also include some more of Bob's tree photos.
Arthur
Arthur Steevens [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stockport, United Kingdom
Saturday, April 24, 2004 at 20:55:06 (UTC)
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dear Johnny,
Go safely - go slowly, is isiZulu and is spelt Hamba Kahle.
The hl is pronounced 'gh'.- like gogga
I know you know that.
Hlala gahle, nkosi
Re horses... we dont see all that stuff - makes me envious. Oh well.
Bill
William Knott [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Saturday, April 24, 2004 at 19:48:24 (UTC)
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Hiya
Can anyone tell me where I can buy a Zambia football top please ?
David Swan [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Bute, Scotland, United Kingdom
Saturday, April 24, 2004 at 19:12:26 (UTC)
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Good morning campers, there is another big race today at Sandown the gold cup the word seems to be out for a horse called Scotmill Boy and should be worth a couple of bob each way, and I noted that there is another one Gin Palace running today at the 1.45 race also at Sandown, they seem to like it has come down from 10s to 8 in the last few mins and the reason it caught my eye was that I used to have a boat on the Kafue a cabin cruiser that a gentle man still living in Chingola by the name of Derek Critten christened it the Gin Palace so I will be having a little bet on this one also, But dont forget Amba Gashly. Johnny.
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Saturday, April 24, 2004 at 08:44:20 (UTC)
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Here is a link to an interesting article on Nshima that was mentioned on another Zambian message board. It is written by Jamie Baldwin who is volunteering in Zambia for a couple of years and also has links to other Zambian articles written by him during his stay:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/nottingham/features/2004/03/our_man_in_zambia_08.shtml
Chandru Krishna [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Rockville, Maryland, United States
Saturday, April 24, 2004 at 02:22:46 (UTC)
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Phil, another "good stuff" on your croc story. I copied it to give to my grandkids when they visit. They are always asking for "Africa" stories and I was at risk of repeating myself, a condition that can be put down to Golden Years syndrome. Now I have a brand new source and I thank you. Please, more, more more.
Robert Summers [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Dayton, Ohio, United States
Saturday, April 24, 2004 at 00:24:45 (UTC)
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Phil:
Thanks for a really great story I could share with my 14yr old son and his buddy who is spending the weekend. I printed it out and read it to them. They were playing video games when I went into their room, but that was abandoned to listen with lots of "Wow's!" and "Cool's" as your story unfolded. They really have no clue what they are missing by not growing up in Africa. After I read the story, my son said he wished he was there and could have the same adventure and then asked me if I would have let him do it. "Not on your nellie!" was my response. Ha! Ha!
I have swum across the river in the general area I think you are describing. It is amazing how fast you can swim when you imagine a croc about to eat you for lunch! And it's amazing how invincible you are as a teenager!
Keep the stories coming, Phil. You are a gifted story teller and I am waiting for your book.
Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Friday, April 23, 2004 at 22:56:46 (UTC)
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Jilly
You are right I did take french, but still got zero.The teacher didn't even give me one mark for my name!!
The girls must of been outside for their break at the time.
Nicky Kontou [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Friday, April 23, 2004 at 18:26:23 (UTC)
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Great story Philip! This is what makes the GNR interesting. When are you coming to the big city? Vryheid I mean.
Cheers - Doug
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Friday, April 23, 2004 at 18:25:12 (UTC)
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More Growing Up In Nkana /Kitwe
Around 1963-64 a lot of school friends would go out to the Lazarevic's farm to the north of Kitwe and spend weekends there. The farm was situated on the banks of the Kafue river.
Some of you might remember Mr. and Mrs. Lazarevic as the people who sold fresh veggies at the market on Saturday mornings.
On this one particular weekend a group of boys gathered at the farm on the Saturday morning. ( The names that I can remember were Winkie Walker, Sid van Zyl, Bob Hardy, John Jack, myself and of course Stan Lazarevic. ) During the morning we wandered upstream to a rapid which was on the Kafue some distance from the house. This rapid was about 30m. (100 feet for Arthur) and ended in a calm area of the river.
Well boys being boys, it wasn't long before we were all starkers and body boarding down the rapid. ( The rocks were all rounded and smooth.) At the end of the rapid you would swim like hell for the bank. We had convinced ourselves that crocks don't like rapids and if any were about they would be in the calm water. We spent a fantastic day down at the river and decided to come back the next day.
Very early the next morning Stans elder brother George took their .303 and went for a hike along the banks of the river. When he approached the pool at the end of the rapids where we had been swimming the previous day a crock was laying in the shallows. One well aimed shot into the crocks head and it started to drift away.
Later on that morning when the gang arrived at the farm, George told us about shooting the crock and that it had drifted away. As you know what boys are like at the age. Seeing is believing and if you don't see then maybe you are just telling us a story to frighten us so we decided to go and have a look for ourselves.
On arriving at the rapid there was nothing to be seen but no one was too keen to swim again. After messing around for a while we decided to go back to the house and watch Stan feed his snakes in the snake pit.
While walking on the bank back towards the house we came across the crock. It had drifted down stream and was held against a reed bank in the middle of the river by the current. After a lot of "Wow check that" and such comments Winkie suggested that we should try and retrieve the crock so we could examine it more closely. But how? After a lot of discussion Winkie decided that we must tie a rope around his waste and he would swim over with another line and tie it to the crock and we could haul it back. If we should see anything or if anything should happen to him we were to pull him back as fast as we could. ( I don't think we considered how we were going to do that if another crock decided to attach itself to Winkie.)
It wasn't long before Stan arrived back with the required ropes and after securing both the ropes to Winkie, he went as far back as he could into the bush and turning around took a running dive into the river. His swim to the reed bank would have made Johnny Weismiller look like he was doing the doggy paddle. On arriving at the reed bank Winkie quickly hoisted himself onto the reeds and out of the water. Using one of the ropes he tied it to the crock. Now the deliberation started again about which should come back to the bank first. Winkie or the crock? We on the bank were really keen to pull the crock back first but Winkie was of the opinion that by pulling the crock over first the blood might attract other crocks. ( I don't know why we didn't think of this before Winkie took his swim.) Winkies argument won and he was pulled back across that stretch of water on the "plane." All that was left now was to pull the crock back and that was achieved with ease.
We decided to take the beast back to the house for our examination, so with one guy at each leg and some on the tail we bundu bashed our way back to the farm house like the porters of some great white hunter. On arriving back at the house the first thing we did was measure it. "Eight Foot" big enough to have taken any one of us.
It was decided that we would skin the crock as we might be able to sell the skin. (We were always looking for money) As the Lazarevic boys were farm kids they knew what they were doing and the process was soon over. The head was cut off and to be left to rot so that we could all get some teeth to keep as souvenirs. While this was being done some bright spark remembered a story about crocks picking up gravel off the river bed to help digestion and sometimes they picked up diamonds from the river bed and these can be found in their stomach's.
One of the guys slit the stomach, with the rest of us crowded around to see what there was to be found. This was one of the biggest mistakes we could have made, because as the stomach was opened the worst stench that I have ever smelt in my life came from a half digested heron and a fairly large bream. (To this day I still feel nausea rising when I think back on that smell.) Well there was gravel in the stomach and each of us grabbed a hand full to wash under the tap. ( Alas no diamonds.)
A short while later Mrs. Lazarevic told us to clean up as lunch was ready. Well as you can tell by their name they were not your typically born and bred Rhodesians. ( The sons were.) So the lovely meal that was prepared for all the boys was a bit foreign to my pallet and every time I brought my hand up to my mouth to eat all I could smell was the stench from the crocks guts. I believe that it has been one of the most difficult meals I have ever had to eat in my life. Every time I swallowed the food just kind of jumped back into my mouth and must have swallowed each mouthful at least four times. By the end of the meal I must have looked like a chipmunk with all the food stored in my cheeks.
Somewhere amongst all my junk I still have my treasured crock's tooth and whenever I look at it, it reminds me of how stupid we were as kids. What was fun and adventure to us then could just as easily ended in tragedy.
Cheers
Philip Pain [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Eshowe, Kwazulu Natal, South Africa
Friday, April 23, 2004 at 17:45:03 (UTC)
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Nicky,
Definitely the charming distractions from next door! But perhaps, like me, you did French instead of Afrikaans, so how can you be blamed for spelling wors wrong?
Bob and Arthur - please let me know whether I have totally fluffed the trees, or don't you know these 'easy' trees yourselves??
Jilly
Jill Aplin [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
South Africa
Friday, April 23, 2004 at 16:23:14 (UTC)
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Jill
Thanks for the spelling. I am afraid the KBH school wasn't as good as the KGH in that respect, or was it the distraction from the KGH?
Nicky Kontou [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Friday, April 23, 2004 at 16:15:23 (UTC)
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I just happened to notice that we are about to have the 1,500th member joining the GNR. Please can we know who it is so we can congratulate them from around the world. If its somebody in my neck of the woods, I will be tempted to offer take them for a quiet Castle (or two) if they want.
I think there was a problem when I last mentioned this; but to tell you the truth I'm not sure why; but will it be possible to see a list of all the members at some time in the future.
We don't appear to be too thick on the ground re members residing here in Oman but regardless of numbers if there are members out there in Oman, please email me and we may be able to organise a get together. I know that there are definitely 4 of of us to date.
David Hoyle [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Muscat, Oman
Friday, April 23, 2004 at 14:47:57 (UTC)
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Arthur,
I would like to have a look at the photos of the trees that have been subject of discussion for identification recently. My browser has stopped showing me photo image eagles on the GNR for some reason or other - is there another way without overloading my inbox with images ?
Best wishes, Ron - now back in HK
Ron Clibborn-Dyer [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hong Kong SAR, China
Friday, April 23, 2004 at 12:04:53 (UTC)
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Charlie
Thanks for the warning. I have asked out IT guys to check it out!
Jacqui
Jacqui Milward (née Lackenby) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
London, England
Friday, April 23, 2004 at 11:28:16 (UTC)
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Ken Barron,
Here's to a happy birthday from one BHer to another.
Bhers,
Remember the "Cave-in" grounds with its rusty, dilapidated barbed-wire fence; festooned with red warning signs bearing white 'skull & Cross Bones'? Despite dire warnings from parents we lads all managed, somehow, to survive 'tours' of the old workings - with its resident naag-apies, bats and owls. We really had to go quite far out of our way to get there - just because it was forbidden. Somewhere in there lies a moral!
Jack Wardell,
Sorry about the Freudian slip regarding your name. I do have a number of loose pages from BH Observers, but no complete copies. Only extracts where family members were mentioned. Are you looking for something in particular?
Regards
Charles Cartmill [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stellenridge, Cape Town, South Africa
Friday, April 23, 2004 at 07:52:10 (UTC)
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Ken Barron, Peter Siderman
Best wishes on your birthday
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Friday, April 23, 2004 at 05:42:18 (UTC)
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Charles Cartmill,
Thanks for usig the familiar "Jacky". A small point that I appreciate !! Takes me back to my youth.
I dont suppose you have any old Broken Hill Observers somewhere in the family archives, do you; circa 1968/69.
Jack Wardell [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scotland, United Kingdom
Thursday, April 22, 2004 at 22:41:58 (UTC)
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Photos of Bob's Trees.
I mailed my answers to Arthur, but here they are again, I think they are as follows,
Aloes, Bamboo, Banana, Cream of Tartar, Sweet Potato,
Casia, Flamboyant, Frangipani, Date Palm, Jacaranda, Mango, Fever tree, Pawpaw, Albizia...and perhaps Blackjak weeds.. These are the easy ones.
June
June Bohl (née Walker, formerly McCarthy) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Los Angeles County, California, United States
Thursday, April 22, 2004 at 21:04:26 (UTC)
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Trees
1. Umbrella thorn
12. Poinsettia
Jilly
Jill Aplin [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
South Africa
Thursday, April 22, 2004 at 20:05:48 (UTC)
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Nicky
Boerewors.
Jill Aplin [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
South Africa
Thursday, April 22, 2004 at 17:22:49 (UTC)
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Bob and Arthur - Trees - if those are supposed to be the easy ones - I await the next lot very apprehensively!
I am still trying but here's what I have so far -
1. Acacia (will try and identify which one later)
3. Aloe
4. Bamboo
5. Banana
6. Baobab???
8. A sick frangipani?
11. Flamboyant
12. I know it, but can't remember the name - will get back to you!
13. Vegetable ivory or ilala palm
14. Jacaranda
16. Knobthorn? Msasa?
17. Pawpaw
It makes it all the more difficult because so many of them are not indigenous and it's not easy to identify some of them from the photos.
Have I got any right? Okay - I'll try harder next time!
Heartfelt condolences to the Frankham family, Gill perhaps you can pass these on to Mickey and Diane? Thanks.
Jilly
Jill Aplin [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
South Africa
Thursday, April 22, 2004 at 17:20:54 (UTC)
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Alan
Have you tried the butcher in Corstorphine Road in Edinburgh for Biltong? He also does boervorse?(not sure spelling).
Philip
I see that you are looking for Bob Hardy. I used to pal about with a chap called Hardy but I just can’t remember his first name, it could’ve been Bob. Was he tall and thin? Also Rodger Wickburg used to pal about with us, did you know him? It would be good to know what’s happened to them.
You are also looking for Titch and Iggy Liebenburg. I used to live beside them in Ndola when we were about nine to ten years old. Then I moved to Kitwe and attended Fredrick Knapp. It was in second year at KBH when I bumped into Tich and Iggy it was their first day at KBH so that was some reunion.
The last I heard of Tich he was floor manager at Kitwe TV Studio, that was a long time ago. If you hear from any of them please let me know.
Kate
Did you manage to find Lanark and get home safely after your visit?
Cheers Nicky.
Nicky Kontou [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Thursday, April 22, 2004 at 12:23:41 (UTC)
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Craig....
What is the "vintage" bit :)......
It is a world known fact that those from Broken Hill - the centre of the universe for those new on the board - live the longest, luckiest and best lives in the world.
Hell, now at age 57 it was only two years ago they allowed me to drink alcoholic beverages in Boones Bar!!!
Looking forward to a FANTASTIC time!!!
Peter Dielissen [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
Thursday, April 22, 2004 at 08:38:35 (UTC)
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Arthur & Bob,
I'm not going to hazard a guess at some of those trees. Apart from the easy ones, such as bamboo, vegetable ivory, banana and pawpaw - the rest are a puzzle. Is #6 the illusive "Snot Apple" (Azanza garckeana) that has been discussed on this board, or is it a Gardenia? Is #16 a Cassia or could it be Acacia sieberana? We need some clues.
Jacky Wardell,
Thanks for the birthday greeting. Sheelagh is a regular lurker on the board, and has probably read your message. I will be visiting my parents (and Bertie), this weekend in Mossel Bay (and Vleesbaai), and will pass on your greetings.
Jacqui Milward,
I received your email this morning. As a caution, please ckeck your MacHine - as your mail was accompanied by two emails with virii.
Dawid Cooper,
Wots up - mate? Drop us a line and let us know how you are.
Regards
Charles Cartmill [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stellenridge, Cape Town, South Africa
Thursday, April 22, 2004 at 08:13:39 (UTC)
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Alister Watson, Janine Ligato, Alan Olivato, Glenn Gilchrist, Geoffrey Shaw, Josie Billany, Brenda Robbertze
Best wishes on your birthday
ALAN HOGG
Why don't you email me with more details of what you want to do, the ages of your children, what sort of accommodation you are looking for etc and I will give you my latest recommendations. Much of the info on the Livingstone Lark page is still valid, but things are moving so fast in the development of lodges, facilities etc around the country that much of what I said early last year needs to be updated. Plus this is a new thing that I am just getting into - arranging personalised holidays for people
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Thursday, April 22, 2004 at 05:18:39 (UTC)
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Hi David
thanks for that my memory did fail me for the moment and you are right it was Mr. Nixon I was talking about not Mr. Thompson. As I read your message I had this flash of one of "The Three Stooges" and it all came flooding back. Thanks for the correction.
P.S. Must be getting old.
Cheers
Philip Pain [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Eshowe, Kwazulu Natal, South Africa
Thursday, April 22, 2004 at 04:52:07 (UTC)
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Thanks Craig and Heather Chalcraft. Excellent information that covers about all the questions I had.
Alan Hogg [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Edinburgh, United Kingdom
Thursday, April 22, 2004 at 00:39:53 (UTC)
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Just when you have recovered from the penguin bashing link I gave you, here is something quite unique that was on our local Austin news tonight. It seems the cowboys are tired of playing with their horses, so here is a new game you can play.
Type in this link:
www.subserviantchicken.com
Okay... I'm ducking at this point.
Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Wednesday, April 21, 2004 at 22:42:42 (UTC)
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Sheelagh Cartmell/Sandiford
care of Charles Cartmill,
Belated birthday greetings to you both. I remember Sheelagh very well when she worked for a while in the BH mine Offices. As you are the more regular BB user please pass on my regards to her. Of course I rember her dad Gordon well.
One day I should communicate a bit more with you Charles. I followed your progress through your operation and recovery with interest. Your problem was in the same neurological area as mine. I had crush fracture of L5 S1; the discs in the area disappeared!
Seems you are doing well and I hope it continues.
For me tomorrow is a big day - not birthday but retirement day. Hope to visit South Africa again soon: & Zambia & Malawi.
Best wishes also to Jones and Maureen. I also remember your sisters, who wouldn't; but I did not get a chance to know them.
Jack Wardell [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scotland, United Kingdom
Wednesday, April 21, 2004 at 22:03:12 (UTC)
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OK, I have found a new firkin location for the "Vancouver Valeta", so I am re-announcing the
Venomous Vancouver Vipers Valeta for Vocal Vultures
in honour of Vintage Peter Dielissen's Visit to Vancouver
If you are in the Vicinity of Vibrant Vancouver, stop Vegetating, get Vertical, Vociferous, Vibrant and into your Vehicle on
Saturday 29 May 2004 at 6 pm
and Venture over to
The Frog and Firkin
1941 West Broadway, Vancouver
(a block and a half west of Burrard Street)
Tel: +1-604-734-3418
a Volcanic, Vibrating Venue
Look around for Craig wearing his GNR cap and his pink (to match the text) flip flops/Bata tropicals/thongs or as they are now known
'Patapatas'
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Wednesday, April 21, 2004 at 20:07:48 (UTC)
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Alan,
Some of the information applies only to the reunion that was held in Livingstone in September 2003, but you will find much useful information, complied by Heather Chalcraft, on the archived Livingstone Lark page.
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Wednesday, April 21, 2004 at 19:45:00 (UTC)
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My entire family will be returning to Zambia in July for my mothers 80th and my 50th birthdays. A total of 8 adults and 2 kids. We will be staying for 4 weeks and intend flying to Livingstone then driving up to Kitwe visiting Kariba and a game park, then back to Livingstone to fly out. It will be the first time any of us have been back to Zambia in 25 years so we are slightly out of touch.
I would appreciate any suggestions on accommodation in Livingstone, Kariba or Kitwe. Any Internet links for info on: inoculations, car hire, game parks etc. Any safety suggestions regarding road travel through the country with senior citizens and children.
Any suggestions at all in fact.
Alan Hogg [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Edinburgh, United Kingdom
Wednesday, April 21, 2004 at 18:23:38 (UTC)
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Maeve Byrne,Elizabeth Tring, Ronnie Gordon, Bill Crause, Simon Burchill
Best wishes on your birthday
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Wednesday, April 21, 2004 at 13:49:09 (UTC)
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Arthur
I love the baobab tree. Miss your Tiger fish picture though. Thanks to you, Heather and Craig for all the hard work and to Dave too for starting the GNR!
Cheers
David Gray [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
South Africa
Wednesday, April 21, 2004 at 12:54:57 (UTC)
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Hey Pappy, good to hear from you again. I’ve been walk about for a while. A couple of dozen Singha Golds sounds fine to me. Better be quick though, I’ve sold the restaurant. Changes hands in 2 weeks and we’ll have to pay for the beers after that. Send me an e-mail with your NEW number (I have tried your old one several times) and we’ll drag George Maxwell out for a few.
A belated happy birthday Linda Hayes née Dore, hope you had a good one. I was in Houston at the time, spent a month on the 23rd floor of some building on the west side working for the corporate devil Halliburton. I never did come across a CHICK-FIL-A but did manage a shrimp po-boy if that counts. Nothing very positive about it’s influence but it does go well with beer. I may be able to help with the biltong, we have a restaurant round the corner called In de belly that sometimes has it, sudsa and cooke-sisters as well, Edinburgh has finally gone international!!
Alan Hogg [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Edinburgh, United Kingdom
Wednesday, April 21, 2004 at 12:47:30 (UTC)
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Philip/Kate/Glen
Jim Thompson was certainly a character who somehow managed to instill a love for physics and chemistry in many who crossed his path. He died a few years back in Port Elizabeth. Mrs. Thompson now lives in the UK or Vancouver - my memory fails me! You might look her up Margaret de Lange!!! I only saw Jim Thompson once in later life when Des and Maureen Fell (who is his eldest daughter) brought Mr. and Mrs. Thompson round to our home for tea. We had a good natter about "old times." Shortly after that the Gray family was seconded to the UK for 2 years and our paths never crossed again although I occasionally phone Des Fell. I always remember (and sometimes use) his favourite saying: "Don't baffle yourself with science!" I also recall way back in 1953 when Rhokana was producing uranium and some of us, having graduated from the gunpowder making stage (luckily with only singed eyebrows for our pains) and having illusions of grandure, asked him how an atomic bomb worked. His reply was: "If I knew I wouldn't be teaching you lot!!!" I must say that I am amazed that he taught history - I would never have thought it. "Don't baffle yourself with history" just doesn't sound the same! We were taught history by a Mr. Nixon who administered regular tests at the start of each lesson and rewarded those scoring low marks with painful whacks on the palm of the hand inflicted with a wooden school ruler.
Amazing how this GNR gets ones mind working! Thank you all.
Cheers
David Gray [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
South Africa
Wednesday, April 21, 2004 at 12:44:57 (UTC)
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Phil - how could ANYONE forget Thompson who taught Chem at KBHS!
He was truly something else . . . . .
He could face the blackboard; write formulae; scratch his bum right in the crease AND suck through his teeth . . . .
ALL AT THE SAME TIME !
Glen Drake [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
California, United States
Wednesday, April 21, 2004 at 08:20:11 (UTC)
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Dave Heaton,
Thanks for the news of Chippie. Condolences to his family and all his friends.
Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Tuesday, April 20, 2004 at 22:27:00 (UTC)
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To Bob Gillies / Hilton Williams / Chris Tamm
I have just spoken to Peter Rundle who confirms what I thought that Paul "Chippie" Chipendale passed away in Grantham, Lincolnshire UK some time in the mid 90's.
We are not sure what of. His sister Jane lives on a US airforce camp near Manheim Germany, Peter can get her address if any one wishes
Drop me an email and I will see what I can do
sorry to be a bearer of bad news but I thought you should know
David Heaton [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Derby, United Kingdom
Tuesday, April 20, 2004 at 20:43:44 (UTC)
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Hi Kate
I have tried to e-mail you a reply to this message you sent me but have had it returned several times, are you still having trouble with your service provider?
Morning Philip
Firstly I must apologise - having re-read my last message I was awfully rude about your hair!!! (It's just that you had a real headfull at 18....) If you saw my before and after you could be equally rude and ask me what happened to my lovely waistline....
I remember the name Titch but can't put a face to it. I'm sure he used to go to the sessions (the face is coming back...) He wouldn't know me though - I was a bit of a non-entity in those days. I had lots of crushes - but unfortunately that is all they were! I was a bit of a swot in those days and went on to become an engineer - the first at the company (in both Zam and UK) and at college and in the Institute of Marine Engineers - so i guess I've made my mark. It was rather nice to make contact with Mr Gray again cos he'd told my parents I didn't work hard enough - he was probably right at the time - and Mrs Maggs (maths at KGHS) was very condescending when I went for the interview in Kitwe and told me not to expect too much!!!
Did you ever have Mr Thompson for chemistry - what a b...... We used to mix with the boys for that lesson and he was always showing the girls up......think he must have been a sadist. His wife taught me at Kitwe Primary and she was evil also (Go on - now tell me you married the daughter AnneMarie.........!!!).
Have a great day - please send over some sunshine.... My sister's coming over this weekend from Durbs! Got to get the wine in before she gets here........ we do - but then drink it.....
Regards
Kate
Hi Kate,
firstly I still have most of my hair, but I was Invited to a new years party where the Hosts chose the dress (theme ) and I had to come as a "Hells Angle" I looked the part but everyone told me that I look better with no hair, so decided to go with popular opion and crop once a week.
Now we are getting somwhere, Roger Maggs and I worked on the mines together for years, he was a learner official seconded to a projects team to do the planning of a new shaft that was being sunk and I was secononded as project surveyor. It must be the same Maggs as there can only be only one with a mother who taught maths and came from N.R.
Mr. Thompson! Now he could give the most painful cuts out of all the teachers at KBHS. I was lucky though, my late brother Arnold and he were drinking partners so I got away with murder. He taught us history and would give us regular tests. At the next lesson he would hand out the test papers and ask me what my result was and then send everyone who got results below mine to the office. I enjoyed history but hated to learn dates, with the result that at times I only got as low as 40% but still got away without being sent to the office. My popularity with the guys in the history class grew as you can immagine. All the guys who hadn't studied would ask me not to do well in the tests.
Titch and Iggy I have lost all contact with and have been trying to find them again through the GNR. (The reason for asking if you knew them)
Hope you buy good South African Wine and enjoy it. Treasure the time you spend with your sister, at our age the time is starting to fly and before you know it we will be too old to enjoy a glass of wine without spilling most of it.
Enjoy the day
Regards
Philip
----- Original Message -----
From: Phil
To: Kate Smith
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 6:13 AM
Subject: Lazarevic
Morning Kate,
just checked the photo again, I don't think that is Stan but it may be. Stan and I became good mates in High school and I spent many a weekend on their farm.
Stans brother George was head boy At KBHS during my second last year at school there. The last I heard of the brothers was that they were in the Cape at varsity but that was in the late 60's.
Now that you have mentioned the Lazarevics' you have given me another link in a chain to write another story about "Growing up in Nkana/Kitwe" I must sit down and put pen to paper so to say, and post on the GNR.
Did you know Titch and Iggy Liebenburg?
Regards
Philip
Philip Pain [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Eshowe, Kwazulu Natal, South Africa
Tuesday, April 20, 2004 at 17:36:51 (UTC)
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Doug,
I am in contact with Shaun Frankham. He's off to Ireland today for Keith's funeral but I will probably see him on his way back so will ask if Derek is "on-line" and get the two of you in touch. I'm sure he'd love to hear from you. (Not sure where he is - the brothers are scattered all over the world.)
Bridget
Bridget Billany [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Blackburn, Lancashire, England
Tuesday, April 20, 2004 at 16:34:20 (UTC)
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My daily reading of the GNR message board is ongoing. Realised that I am turning into a lurker.
Can't have that,.
Does anyone know where and how is our Founder - one Dawie Vanderblikskottel ??
Seems like he has disappeared. Or have I missed something?
Bill
William Knott [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Tuesday, April 20, 2004 at 13:16:59 (UTC)
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Thanks Anona,
Sheelagh Sandiford is my cousin. It was her birthday yesterday (Heather’s birthday greetings below).
Doug – thanks. Your comment reminded me of one of those old “Carry on…” movies - “Carry on Cowboy”. The little wimp of the cast was drinking milk in a Western styled saloon when Sid James – the “Bad Guy” – swung through the batwing doors (they must’ve stolen the concept from Boon’s Bar) and demanded of him what he was doing there. The little runt straightened up, and declared, “I’m Mayor of this town”; to which Sid James retorted, “Well, you better watch out. My old horse hasn’t seen a mare for three weeks”.
Oh dammit – now I’ve given Arthur a chance to rail on about one horse towns – and the horse is dead, etc.
Thanks Jacqui – I hope the map is readable.
Regards
Charles Cartmill [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stellenridge, Cape Town, South Africa
Tuesday, April 20, 2004 at 08:25:34 (UTC)
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Charles
Happy returns for the 18th........I remember your sisters' well. There was also a girl by the name of Sheila Cartmill whom I went to school with.....any relation?
Anona
Anona Balloch [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
United Kingdom
Tuesday, April 20, 2004 at 07:53:16 (UTC)
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Hi Heather,
Thanks for your wishes on my birthday. The years slip away with increasing speed!
Kind Regards, Mike
Mike Wilson [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Dawlish, Devon, United Kingdom
Tuesday, April 20, 2004 at 06:12:34 (UTC)
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Bridget
Sorry to hear about Keith's untimely death. Please pass my sincere condolences to any of the brothers that you are in contact with, especialy Derek who I remember well. Please ask him to email me
Charles
Many happy returns to the Mayor of Broken Hill!
Regards - Doug
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Monday, April 19, 2004 at 19:35:25 (UTC)
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Charlie
Belated birthday wishes for yesterday! Glad you had a wonderful day with friends and family. xx
Jacqui Milward (née Lackenby) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
London, England
Monday, April 19, 2004 at 16:42:53 (UTC)
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Hilton & Chris, Jane was Chippies sister. I last saw her in about '67 as she worked in Std Bank with me. Chippie was working for our Company Diesel-Electric in Lusaka as accountant or admin manager, this was about 1975 or so and the last time I saw him. I don't know where he went from there.
Bob Gillies [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Springs, Gauteng, South Africa
Monday, April 19, 2004 at 16:14:38 (UTC)
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KEITH FRANKHAM
Very sad to report the death of Keith Frankham, in Ireland this morning, (19/4/04) He had battled bravely against lung cancer for many months and finally slipped away this morning. My thoughts are with Shaun, Brian, Mickey, Terry and Derek.
Keith was 56 years old and was ex RLI and if anyone knows the where abouts of his great friend Stuart Taylor, also ex RLI, please could you contact me.
Bridget
Bridget Billany [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Blackburn, Lancashire, England
Monday, April 19, 2004 at 15:05:44 (UTC)
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Sheelagh Sandiford, Brendan Girdler-Brown, Mike Wilson, Joe Mukwala, Margaret Turner, Anthony Elliott, Vaughan Burgess, Charlie Toland
Best wishes on your birthday
TREES
To prove that Zambians are capitalists, I will be running a little auction on the side for those struggling to identify the trees. Only bids in Euros, Sterling or US Dollars accepted.
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Monday, April 19, 2004 at 14:25:29 (UTC)
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Arthur
Your "I really miss the place" struck such a chord after seeing the picture of that lonely baobab, on the edge of that dirt road, somewhere in Zambia ...
I "miss the place" so much it hurts.
I wanted to add my congratulations to you and Trish on your 35th wedding anniversary - Steve and I were also married 35 years ago and also in April (the 12th) in Kitwe. May you and Trish have many, many more wondedrful years together.
Vivienne
Vivienne Jeannette Buitendag (née Eldridge) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Boksburg, South Africa
Monday, April 19, 2004 at 13:23:12 (UTC)
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"Thank you" to Heather, Linda (Beauty), Ali, Shelagh, Johnny, Arthur, David Gray - and anyone I may have overlooked - for the bithday messages, emails, phone calls. Tess prepared a great Birthday Feast, part of which was a Karoo Mutton roast from Bundu's farm (with plenty of rich gravy) - shared with family & friends. Today I'm feeling the consequences of over-indulgence, and no - it can't be from the Cabernet, Merlot or Shiraz.
Welcome aboard - Anona Balloch. We need more Broken Hillian participation on this site.
Regards
Charles Cartmill [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stellenridge, Cape Town, South Africa
Monday, April 19, 2004 at 09:52:12 (UTC)
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CHARLIE CARTMIL
HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU. sorry its a bit late.
Ali
Artie........
loved seeing the label for the Grenadilla but no fruit.......what happened.....your appetite got in the way ?? (giggles)
Bob
The photos of the trees .....wonderful.
just a quick hello to all, (at work at the moment so taking the oportunity to post) however I am lucky to have GPRS on my mobile phone so am able to read the board everyday and free of charge !!!......though cannot access the "post a message " amazing what we have these days to keep us amused
Ali
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Monday, April 19, 2004 at 08:34:57 (UTC)
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Arthur & Bob
Fantastic piccies - thanks for sharing...
Sue Coughlan (née Forde) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, WA, Australia
Monday, April 19, 2004 at 06:53:10 (UTC)
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I had a magnificent avocado tree in front of my house in 2nd Street, Chingola, which produced huge numbers of delicious fruit. It is one of the many good things I miss about Zambia.
Keith Binns [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Monday, April 19, 2004 at 03:48:07 (UTC)
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Arthur
Here is some interesting info on Zambian export produce:
http://www.fao.org/DOCREP/004/Y1669E/y1669e0n.htm
http://europa.eu.int/comm/development/body/publications/courier/courier176/en/en_030.pdf
Zambian chilies are certainly among the hottest in the world! I remember in Primary School we were each assigned a patch of the school garden to cultivate. One day somebody dared me to pick and eat an entire green chili. Not knowing any better, I proceeded and almost died when the burning sensation enveloped my entire mouth. That aside, gardening was pretty interesting combining our nature studies in class with practical experience in the field. I liked to potter around my patch of the garden and developed quite a green thumb. There were some interesting things that I remember, for example birds would build their nests between the maize stalks and we would occasionally come across baby chicks in their nests. Also, one day a German-Indian couple who worked in the nearby Natural Resources Development College brought along a syringe like device about the size of a spade, it was a pesticide applicator to kill pests that attacked the roots of the maize plant, one mounted the device and it would inject pesticide deep into the ground. Then there was the ocassion that the local sewage treatment plant donated a truck load of treated sewage to be used as fertilizer. The truck dumped its load at the school garden and we were told to distribute the black clumps over the fields with our bare hands. That year the cabbages grew to hugely unbelievable sizes!
Chandru Krishna [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Rockville, Maryland, United States
Monday, April 19, 2004 at 02:24:05 (UTC)
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Hey Guys - enough already ! Didn't mean to start another holy war.
Pappy - thanks for the kind words, I'm humbled. Marion and I split up about 22 years ago and I got married again in Bulawayo. We still remain friends and see each other now and again. I made contact with Bob Gillies and we are getting together in RSA in May for a few toots and talk about the 'old times'. I'm sorry to hear about your Mum, and the delay, as I was on site finishing the commissioning of a project some way away from here. I don't always have access to the internet when on site.
Linda - thank you.
Chris.
Chris Conrad (formerly Van Tonder) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Cheng du, Sichuan Province, China
Monday, April 19, 2004 at 01:49:27 (UTC)
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Northerners !
Some time ago I received a disc from Bob Eglington with a note suggesting I post the photos it contained on the message board a few at a time and see if any of you are any good in identifying trees from the homeland.
With that in mind here are a few photos to start with.
Not sure what the first prize is for the member who scores the most, but I'll think of something suitable.
Thanks Bob, I've put the easy ones up first, then later we will find out who the experts are.
I had a big suprise when I got dragged out to the local supermarket the other evening. As we passed the really boring bits (fruit and veggies) on the way to the meat I was suddenly awoken fron my coma by a teenzie label that caught my eye. Origin Zambia.
The label was on a packet of "Passion Fruit". Now usually I ignore all this stuff as it never tastes like I remember it should, but with now being fully awake I nosed around the rest of the green stuff and was really taken aback. Not only were there Zambian granadillas, but also, top of the range courgettes, baby corn, mange tout, green beans and runner beans. Into the trolley they all went, Trish looked on in bewilderment, had I gone mad and become a veggie suddenly? Naah - this weekend we were going to have a Zambian produce nosh up for Sunday dinner. Over to the meat counter a nice big slab of fillet steak to roast was tossed into the trolley. The granadillas were consumed as I made my way out of the shop to the car.
This evening we had my daughter and her man round to join us for the strangely assorted feast. The greens were really good and also passed Trish's seal of approval. Judith my daughter was also puzzled at the assortment, until I explained - all the veggies were Zambian. Dad, she said, you pay no attention, don't you know that Zambian chillies are the best and hottest in the whole world, and we've been buying them for years.
Then that set me off thinking about all the chillies we saw growing in fields on the way to Mvuu Lodge, the baobab tree we passed by on the road, and yes a little bit of red fabric fluttered under the tree.
Then that got me thinking again, about my time on the Zambezi.
I really miss the place.
Arthur
Belated Happy Birthday, Charlie, Ada and Linda.
Arthur Steevens [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stockport, United Kingdom
Sunday, April 18, 2004 at 23:28:48 (UTC)
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HAPPY BIRTHDAY CHARLIE CARTMILL!!
Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Sunday, April 18, 2004 at 20:45:18 (UTC)
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The man that Anona is referring to as being the well-known fried chicken franchise owner is not The Colonel as in Kentucky Fried Chicken, but rather he is this person below. Incidentally, their chicken really is the best!
THE PHILOSOPHY BEHIND "CHICK-FIL-A"
We’re here to serve. And not just sandwiches.
For Truett Cathy, it seemed like such a simple idea: make a sandwich using chicken. But oh how his little idea took off. From modest beginnings in a tiny Georgia eatery almost sixty years ago, Chick-fil-A® has grown into one of the largest privately owned restaurant chains in the nation. Yet, from the beginning, the first priority for Truett and Chick-fil-A has never been just to serve chicken. It's to serve a higher calling.
Our official statement of corporate purpose says that we exist "to glorify God by being a faithful steward of all that is entrusted to us and to have a positive influence on all who come in contact with Chick-fil-A." That's why we invest in scholarships, character-building programs for kids, foster homes and other community services. Come to think of it, it's also not a bad motive for striving to serve a really, really good sandwich.
To swing back to being germane to the GNR.... I would still rather have a dried piece of biltong if only I could get it over here.
Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Sunday, April 18, 2004 at 20:35:42 (UTC)
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Chris
Thanks for the reply. China sounds like an extremely interesting place.
Johnny
Viva the Bush Baptists, Viva!
Cheers = Doug
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Sunday, April 18, 2004 at 20:34:49 (UTC)
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Hey Chris,
Whats up?You and I go way back,what happened to Van Tonder,and are you still married to Laurences sister?A mate of mine is involved with these religious syndicates,or what ever ,and is quite succesfull ,he is a minister in fact,all the best to him considering his
circumstances,I suppose I would do the same if I was him.I think most of us are believers in one way or another,but I`m sure people would like to know the real Chris like I do,from the days as a sales rep at Dulys,to a Chief Inspector in the Police reserves,to a Seargent in the Milatary Police in Rhodesia,teaching law.
Good to see you posting on the G.N.R.
Have you seen Bob Gillies yet?
Pappy Papier [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Glasgow, United Kingdom
Sunday, April 18, 2004 at 19:29:20 (UTC)
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Well said Doug I agree with every thing you said but a little disconcerted that you missed out the Bush Babtists from your dialogue I know we are a minority but it is nice to get a mention now and again, power to your sermon, Johnny.
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Sunday, April 18, 2004 at 19:27:54 (UTC)
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Hi Anona
It can't be Colonel Saunders? I have just had my Sunday Kentucky. Give me 5% of his loot and I will preach anything you please.
Seriously, I respect all religions. All I ask is that they also respect my disbeliefs. Some of my best friends are Christians / Jews / Muslims / Buddists / Hindus / Animists and Ancestor worshippers. I have read the Bible, the Koran and other religious tracts. I have also enjoyed reading about the ancient religions, the Greek gods, the Roman Gods, the Gods of Babylon and ancient Persia, not to mention our own Nordic Gods, like Thor, Woden and Frida. Their followers seemed to have so much more fun before the dour semitic religions took over; and in whose names so much blood has been shed. Who ever heard of an Atheist suicide bomber? Did your know that most of the realy ancient dieties were women? Then religion was a pleasure.
My God is in the high mountains, the empty desert, the deep seas, the primeval Zambian forests. His voice is the wind in the trees. His love is the warmth of the sun. He does not need my constant praises to reassure him. It sounds as if I am a preacher already. I would love to expand on the subject but that is not the purpose of the GNR and so this is the end of my sermon.
Amen (or to be PC Apeople) - Doug
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Sunday, April 18, 2004 at 15:06:24 (UTC)
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Hi Doug,
No, I'm not a missionary - although I try and live a clean, Christian life. The point of my mail was an attempt to set the record straight about Ray and his money/way of living. He is a great guy and very genuine about his faith. I hope that you meet him some day.
I live in south-west China and work for an environmental company which specialises in pollution control, and we design and build things called dust collectors/baghouses which prevent harmful dusts and noxious gases escaping into the water systems, atmosphere or soil. Chinese pollution control technology dates back to the 1930's and the country is heavily polluted. Recently the government has made available huge amounts of US$ as a start to remedy the situation. We are in the right place at the right time and our company share-holders are smiling all the way to the bank ! These are normally multi-million US$ projects.
Chris.
Chris Conrad (formerly Van Tonder) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Cheng du, Sichuan Province, China
Sunday, April 18, 2004 at 15:03:35 (UTC)
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Many Happy Returns Charles and may you have many many more and look after that back of yours you buddy Johnny.
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Sunday, April 18, 2004 at 14:53:33 (UTC)
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Nico Stapelberg / Obituaries
I have been told that Nico passed away some months ago. I apologise for posting my message referring to him as if he was still alive; I did not know.
Not that I want to use this incident to make a point, but I will make two. One is that I usually do not read all of the messages on the board all of the time. Obviously at the time someone apparently posted news of Nico's passing I was not reading all of the messages all of the time.
The second point is with respect to obituaries, especially those of GNR members. We now have almost 1500 members and the number grows daily as new people discover the site and tell their friends about it. With that many members and the fact that none of us are getting any younger, it is inevitable that we are going to lose members as time goes on. Unless someone tells me and I make the necessary changes in the Names Directory, a member who has passed on will live on there. This is not a good thing.
If you know of a member who has died, please let me know (including the date of death) so that I can make the necessary changes. However, while I don't insist on a notarised copy of a death certificate, I do need to be reasonably sure that reports of someone's death are not exaggerated. I don't have a set and inflexible policy in place, but the more corroboration I can get from other people, the better. Also, these days obituaries published in traditional print newspapers are often also published on-line, so if you can give me a link to an obituary published by a newspaper that would help me too.
Thanks for keeping this in mind.
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
Sunday, April 18, 2004 at 14:34:13 (UTC)
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Hello Doug
There is a certain man in the USA who owns a well known, world wide, fried chicken industry. From his massive monthly return, he keeps 10% for himself and the remainder is allocated towards various charities and churches. This 10% allows him to live in an enormous country house on numerous acres of land, own several cars and a private jet. From the start, he stipulated that none of his multiple restaurants were to be open on Sundays. It gave him the oppurtunity to 'stand in' and preach at the local church whenever he was called to do so and it gave his employees a chance to worship on that day.
Who knows Doug, you may well become a preacher one day............you have no idea what may happen in your life.
Anona Balloch [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
United Kingdom
Sunday, April 18, 2004 at 13:41:52 (UTC)
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Hi Chris
I take it that you are doing missionary work in China. It would be interesting to hear more about your life there apart from the religious side.
As for Ray McCauley, I note that many people make an excellent living, far in excess of what they could earn from their own talents by bringing aid to the poor and suffering etc. I recall many years ago a survey found that 92.5% of the money donated to charity went in admin costs and only 7.5% ended up where in was intended to go.
The only difference between McCauley and Kaunda is that McCauley is so much more successfull in filling his begging bowl. Who needs to be a millionaire when you can live the lifestyle and have all the benefits using other peoples money.
Doug the Cynic
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Sunday, April 18, 2004 at 11:52:15 (UTC)
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Doug,
Ray McCauley was a South African body-builder who was called by the Lord some years ago. No, he isn't a millionaire - he gets a salary like any other head of an organisation. His church is run by board members and they fund quite a few worthwhile causes which include aid to the poor, AIDS care and schools. Missionary work is obviously an important aspect of any church. I believe Ray's church is affiliated to an American organisation of the same name.
I think KK is just cashing in on favours from his old 'struggle' cronies and anyone else with a sympathetic ear, otherwise he would starve. If you remember, he was a past master in the art of using the begging bowl.
Chris.
Chris Conrad (formerly Van Tonder) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Cheng du, Sichuan Province, China
Sunday, April 18, 2004 at 10:58:11 (UTC)
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Charlie Cartmill, Shirley McFarlane, Daniel Dolan, Malcolm Rens, Dawn Lukan
Best wishes on your birthday
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Sunday, April 18, 2004 at 09:45:05 (UTC)
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I sent this to a few friends perhaps it will give you all a smile Johnny.
*ELECTION RESULTS*
Bad News: All the whites have to move to the townships.
Good News: All their TV's, DVD's and Cars are already there.
The ANC has really thought this through.
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Saturday, April 17, 2004 at 09:33:58 (UTC)
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Molly Bence
By the way, I have been remiss in not noting the generous hospitality of new member Molly Bence, who joined only a couple of weeks ago and noticed that I am staying only a few kilometres from where she lives. She invited me out to lunch with her and her husband Ian. We had a very nice lunch and I got to look at a lot of newspaper clippings, photographs, newspapers and school magazines, including a picture of a young and fit Nico Stapelberg. I have some with me that I will scan late next month, but the rest (including the picture of Nico) will have to wait for Molly to get a scanner.
Thank-you very much Molly for contacting me. It was a pleasure meeting you and Ian.
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Macksville, New South Wales, Australia
Saturday, April 17, 2004 at 07:43:06 (UTC)
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Barrie,
Very sorry to hear about your niece. My condolences.
Vancouver Viper Attendees
Sorry, haven't had time to arrange a new venue from here. Will be back in Vancouver on Monday (the stand-by gods willing) and will arrange a new venue then for May 29th. I will try and avoid downtown Vancouver, but I'm not going to arrange it in the boondocks of Surrey or Langley I'm afraid. Please stay tuned to the message board for details next week.
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Macksville, New South Wales, Australia
Saturday, April 17, 2004 at 07:34:08 (UTC)
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GILLIAN BARBARA MAIN
Spoke to S.F yesterday. Have you got something you'd like to tell me? Will ring you tomorrow evening!!!
Bridget
Bridget Billany [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Blackburn, Lancashire, England
Friday, April 16, 2004 at 20:02:43 (UTC)
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Hello Every one,
Just to let you all know that I am still alive and kicking, now seven and a half years since my heart transplant, still taking the pills etc,. Sadly one of my nieces who had a heart and double lung transplant 18 months ago, succumed to an unknown infection, and died yesterday in Papworth Hospital in Cambridge. She was 44 years old and struggled bravely for years before and after her transplant.
I am still riding my motor bike (kawasaki KLE 500cc twin), It is not the quickest of machines, but at my age it is quite quick enough. I am coming down to Ipswich early Friday morning for my nieces funeral, any of you in that neck of the woods??
I notice many new names on the board since I last posted, I dont have the time to spend reading it as much as I used to, and there is just so much to catch up on.
Regards barribee.
Barrie Braidford [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Newcastle upon Tyne, England
Friday, April 16, 2004 at 19:48:29 (UTC)
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Johnny
I cut short my 'going nowhere slowly' and came home to vote, not that it did much good; the ANC is still in. Thanks for the emails. Very healthy young ladies. I sent one such to Elias and got a reply from his wife calling me all sorts of names! He is still hiding but has sent me an email to advise against marrying scots women :-)
Kenneth Kaunda seems to be spending a lot of time in South Africa. He was with Pastor Ray McCauley the other day and today he was with Bishop Tutu opening an Aids centre in Joburg. I wonder what he is up to?
Ray McCauley was a wrestler who decided that there was more money in commercial religion so he founded his own church. He is now a multi-millionaire. Maybe Ken is going to do the same thing in Zambia. I wish I had a gift of the gab. I would make a bloody good preacher if I wasn't an pagan.
Kentucky fried chicken is bringing out a new menu. It features the Tutu takeaway which is a box full of left wings and r-soles.
Cheers - Doug
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Friday, April 16, 2004 at 18:10:33 (UTC)
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Hilton,
Would that be Chippy Chippendale who worked at Standard Bank, brother of Jane Chippendale?
Let me know if you find him
Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Friday, April 16, 2004 at 17:04:49 (UTC)
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Hi folks,
some time ago "Chippy" Chippendales name was mentioned on the board.
I Now have a friend who is /has been searching for him or at least his contact address in the UK.
Can anybody help
Hilton
Hilton Williams [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Brisbane, Australia
Friday, April 16, 2004 at 12:08:09 (UTC)
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Tina:
For the answer to who is buried under the baobab tree, look for the scrap of red fabric...
To all my friends who have sent me birthday greetings on the GNR and by email, I thank you very much. It sure feels good to know that I am thought of. Being part of the GNR and part of your lives in some way or another is a good feeling. One of my favourite things about today was dropping my 13yr old son at school this morning. As he jumped out the car, he shoved an envelope into my hand with this impish grin and twinkling blue eyes that look like my dad. This is what my home made card read:
HAPPY BIRTHDAY MOM!
51 years :)
open card >
The inside said:
Thank you for being the best mom in the whole world and I hope that you have a wonderful birthday. I'm sorry I couldn't buy anything but I am kind of in debt right now and I have no money. :(
Love,
Timmy
Birthdays just don't get any better than this folks, and this card is a keeper.
Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Friday, April 16, 2004 at 02:25:31 (UTC)
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Lindy
Islands to Islands. If we said hello to Thursday in Kiribati we say goodbye to it in Honolulu.
It will still be Thursday there until Friday 5 a.m. Austin Bubba Time, or for another ten and a half hours. Then Friday begins in Honolulu (and Saturday begins in Kiribati) and for this birthday, as the Rolling Stones once put it: "Baby, baby, baby you're out of time".
Nice comments on artificial time and on day length, daylight savings time, losing the kids for three months in an Arctic summer. Is the corollary of that the Antarctic penguins all going: "bleddy Christmas, all this December sunlight. Can't get a wink of sleep. Might as well just slide down the ice and be hit by a Yeti with a baseball bat. (Remember that brief craze on the GNR. Craig and Arthur do, heh heh).
June, (June Dobson, not the month) I thought of you making New Year phone calls. That is such an immediate celebration that calling family in the U.S. a day later must seem nuts.
Anyway, back to Zambian memories. Yeah, who is buried under that baobab?
Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Friday, April 16, 2004 at 00:34:37 (UTC)
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Dear Linda,
Very many happy returns. Thank you for being my friend for such a long time - most folks would've given up on me long ago! I hope you have a wonderful day. Mike, Chris and Tim - spoil Linda - she's one of the best - and a Kitwe Bun to boot!
Lots of Love and Hugs,
Jilly (Kitwe) Main Bun
Jill Aplin [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
South Africa
Thursday, April 15, 2004 at 20:40:02 (UTC)
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Linda
Hope you are you are having a gloriously happy birthday with lots of pressies and grub and drinkies !!
May you have many more too, not that I am wishing old age upon you, but it it is insidious, diabolically creeeping up on all of us while inside we only feel like we are in our 20's !!
Sorry I haven't been in touch for a while, but I have been "lurking" occasionally. How did your operation go?
I am having a mini reunion in June with Elaine Coetzee (nee McNeil). She is now Mrs Richard Combe after getting married in January this year and although I went to the wedding, I didn't get much of a chance to have a good chin wag with her.
Take care and Many Happy Returns
Carole
Carole Evans (née Bruce) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Doncaster, Yorkshire, United Kingdom
Thursday, April 15, 2004 at 13:33:03 (UTC)
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Linda
Happy Birthday my friend. Hope your day is filled with lots of lovely surprises and sprinkled with love and laughter!
Many Happy Returns too to the Lady in Red - the Banished Beateous! May she have an outrageously wicked funfilled day!
lotsa luv
Jacqui xx
Jacqui Milward (née Lackenby) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
London, England
Thursday, April 15, 2004 at 13:23:31 (UTC)
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Linda,
Happy, Happy,can you believe it another year gone by.
Have a good one medem.
Pappy Papier [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Glasgow, United Kingdom
Thursday, April 15, 2004 at 08:29:14 (UTC)
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Dear Lindy Lou what have you done with my knickers?
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Thursday, April 15, 2004 at 08:05:28 (UTC)
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Lindy Lou
Congrats on being very very approximately 1,609,437,600 seconds old in solar days. I don't know what time of day you were born. I'm around 47,336,400 seconds older in any case.
I tried to work out another of our colleagues but my calculator started talking about King Solomon's wives and then exploded.
Of course this is ONLY because my calculator knew the subject in question is enthusiastic about wanting to know everyone in the biblical sense.
However long or short a time he has been around we are sure he has amassed an impressive amount of knowledge in his chosen field. At times, I'm sure, literally, along with a few ant bites.
Anyway happy birthday in seconds!
Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Thursday, April 15, 2004 at 07:09:38 (UTC)
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Peter:
I somehow think I would quite enjoy 24 hours of daylight. Can imagine it being a bit disconcerting though, driving home at 2.00am with the sun in your face!
Ron:
Thanks for time and date website. Most useful for someone like me.
June
June Dobson (née Jocks) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Christchurch, Canterbury, New Zealand
Thursday, April 15, 2004 at 07:02:29 (UTC)
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Dear Lindy-Loo
Happy happy birthday. I hope you have a terrific day and a great year. Sorry I haven't been around much lately but I'm a working girl now and there doesn't seem to be much time for fun anymore. Hopefully I'll be able to retire again in a couple of months (it's a maternity cover job). Talk to you soon I hope.
Lotsa love
Fiona
P.S. And a big XXX from your poor Innocent. She misses you greatly as her adopted mother has confined her to a cupboard!
Fiona Gayther (née Ferguson) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tytherington, Gloucestershire, United Kingdom
Thursday, April 15, 2004 at 06:58:54 (UTC)
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Tina:
You are lucky having your own Ted and I can imagine the fun you have finding him. That he is a clock and goes Bonnnnnggggggg, is a bonus too. Very useful indeed.
I have a Chris, and he growls a lot. I somehow think I try his patience! Haven't taught him to be a clock, I think I'll make that my next project. Ha.Ha.
June
June Dobson (née Jocks) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Christchurch, Canterbury, New Zealand
Thursday, April 15, 2004 at 06:54:23 (UTC)
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Hi Heather C,
Love the Baobab tree picture. I wonder who is buried there?
Cheers
Ron Sayer [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Thursday, April 15, 2004 at 04:49:27 (UTC)
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Linda,
From deep downunder..HAPPY BIRTHDAY........I hope your day is really special.....thinking of you always..
love Ali
will email you when I come back from the depths of not being online..that goes for the others, Tina, Johnny etc
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Thursday, April 15, 2004 at 04:24:48 (UTC)
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Chris,
Dad passed away about 8 years ago, Mom is still well and will be coming over to Vermont with my sister for a visit in July.
Doug
Doug Gorton [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Rochester, Vermont, United States
Thursday, April 15, 2004 at 02:55:04 (UTC)
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Doug Gorton,
I notice from your bio that you are Jack Gorton's son. I knew him, in Salisbury (Cecil Square Branch) in the 70's. Is Dad still around?
Cheers
Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Thursday, April 15, 2004 at 01:15:47 (UTC)
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Linda
Wishing you a very happy birthday, pity I can't be with you this year but looking forward to 2006 if not before?? Did I tell you I didn't like squirrels especially secret ones!
Hope you have a lovely day my dear friend and I'm sure Mike and the boys will spoil you rotten.
Love
Sandra, Shelley and Craig
Sandra Hooper (née Marsh) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Western Australia, Australia
Thursday, April 15, 2004 at 00:07:19 (UTC)
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My Dearest Paramour Johnny:
I am still trying to catch my breath after Banbury.
Love always
Beauteous the Banished
PS I still have your wig and stockings.. grin
Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Wednesday, April 14, 2004 at 21:26:24 (UTC)
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All this talk about world time got me thinking - in reality all of us who were born in africa are in the same time zone no matter where we go and live - our "time" started in the time zone in which we were born. For those of us now living in NZ your birthday doesn't really start until the day has started where you were born, and for others of us living in USA our birthdays start before where we are now living!!!!
Doug Gorton [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Rochester, Vermont, United States
Wednesday, April 14, 2004 at 21:17:08 (UTC)
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Doug I was under the impression that you were touring around the country and that is why no contact? but if you can recieve me I have a couple for you Regards mate Johnny.
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Wednesday, April 14, 2004 at 20:21:22 (UTC)
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Happy Birthday Linda.
Johnny, I have not received anything from you for some time?
Cheers - Doug
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Wednesday, April 14, 2004 at 19:24:14 (UTC)
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Happy Birthday to my would be paramour who must be at least 21 years old on the 15th of April she sails under quite a few non de plumes and when I met her at the Banbury Bash she was using the name Beauteous, but she is a very fickle girlie and just as I thought I had her boxed into a corner she said no Bwana my heart belongs to Michael, so then I tried to turn on my considerable charm on to Tina but she was not quite as polite as Beauteous she just told me to P---s off, but my dear I hope you have a nice day and they spoil you rotten and will be thinking of you guzzling the champagne tommorow which will be a nice change for you from Chibuku your unrequited lover Johnny.xx
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Wednesday, April 14, 2004 at 18:19:45 (UTC)
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Jennie Daley.
now there is a blast from the past,if I`m right you are Noel`s sister.Happy Birthday,and may you have many more,what are you up to these days?
Keep in touch.
Pappy Papier [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Glasgow, United Kingdom
Wednesday, April 14, 2004 at 14:46:03 (UTC)
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Yukon...
Getting kids to go to bed when there is 24 hours of daylight was never a problem for me. Around April 25 they would go and play outside after dinner. I would tell them to be home by the time it was dark and presto - they reappeared again August 1.....
Seriously, the first year is really difficult for anyone including the cats!!! After a year or so you have no problem falling asleep.
Peter Dielissen [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
Wednesday, April 14, 2004 at 14:12:18 (UTC)
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Not only time, but also seasons. I keep saying that I will be back in the summer sometime June, but really that is the middle of winter in Zambia.
How do you get kids to sleep if there is no difference between night and day? I always had a problem going back to uk in the summer as the children only knew that nighttime was bedtime, sometime between 6 and 7..pm
jane
Jane Todd (née Zwanenburg, formerly Bye, Kelly) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Shatti Al Qurm, Muscat, Oman
Wednesday, April 14, 2004 at 13:59:33 (UTC)
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For those like me who get confused over time at the other end of the world there is a useful website. Try "timeanddate.com"
Ron Sayer [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Wednesday, April 14, 2004 at 13:24:45 (UTC)
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June
Since my husband's name is Ted finding my teddy is always fun. This one even growls when you press his middle. In fact, press his middle too hard and he swears.
Just after I wrote the time and bedtime stuff Ted came in. "Honey," he said, "It's one o' clock in the morning." "Are you a clock? Do you chime?" asked his sarcastic wife. "Yes" he said, "I go Bongg!" "Well, go on then" I said, "Go bong!" "Bonnnnnggggggg!" he said, and I went to bed. A bit surreal for most people I'm sure, but it works for us.
Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Wednesday, April 14, 2004 at 12:39:11 (UTC)
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World Time Zones
If you think time zones are confusing....
Come and live in the Yukon for a while. From the end of April to the end of July it is daylight 24 hours a day!!!!
The shortest day - December 21 - has daylight from 10:30am until 3:00pm.
Lots of midnight events during the summer such as golf tournaments. Really tough driving home from the bar at 2:00am with the sun shining in your face :)...
Peter Dielissen [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
Wednesday, April 14, 2004 at 08:38:08 (UTC)
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I agree with you Tina. This difference in world time certainly keeps you on your toes, especially when you have family/friends scattered all over as most of us do. I get quite confused sometimes (my husband would say I am confused most of the time) when I need to phone someone in another part of the world. I have actually set up a personal world clock on my computer so I can check the time before I make my calls.
Another irritation is "summer" and "winter" time when you have to adjust your clocks by one hour. That REALLY throws me out. Why they can't just leave the clocks alone, I will never know.
The weirdest thing I find is when I phone my sister in the States to wish her a Merry Christmas, when Christmas has come and gone in my part of the world and is just a happy memory.
I can assure you that Wednesday was a very good day so you will have to get up and experience it.
Hope you found your teddy and had a good sleep.
Take care,
June
June Dobson (née Jocks) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Christchurch, Canterbury, New Zealand
Wednesday, April 14, 2004 at 07:58:05 (UTC)
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It's a funny thing this world time. Here in the middle of the American subcontinent it's nearly one a.m. Tuesday. In Lusaka Heather's probably driving in to town from the Leopard's Hill Road to start her Tuesday work day. In Wellington people are driving home after work Wednesday.
Technically shouldn't someone in the U.S. be able to email a mate in New Zealand and say: "How was Wednesday? Was it a good day? Should I bother getting up or should I just go back to sleep?"
On Kirimati, Christmas Island, it will be Thursday, April 15 in just over 4 hours and Lindy Lou Hayes can start celebrating the longest buffday she ever had if she wants, going by world time.
The only time I'm certain of, is that here it's past bedtime and I'm off to find my teddy bear.
Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Wednesday, April 14, 2004 at 05:59:07 (UTC)
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Noel Cowie, Jennie Daley, Bets McCallum
Best wishes on your birthday
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Wednesday, April 14, 2004 at 04:51:28 (UTC)
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TO JUDITH,
Many Happy Returns Of The Day to my Fabulous Niece!
Love and miss you heaps.
Mo xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxo
Moira Steevens [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Brisbane, Australia
Wednesday, April 14, 2004 at 03:10:22 (UTC)
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Beth Lloyd
Sue & Geoff Ritson
Can you please contact me by email. Alison Brooks is trying to make contact with you and you may not have her current email address.
Thanks.
Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Tuesday, April 13, 2004 at 22:28:11 (UTC)
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To all the GNR members
who sent condolences on the death of my father, both on the message board and to me via my contact, THANK YOU. I'm sure there a good few of you who did not know my father, but do know the feeling of emtyness, the loss of one you love and respect leaves you with. To this day, if I have a problem I not sure how to deal with, I think "what would dad have done". It has never let me down yet.
THANKS once again.
P.S. Thankyou for the birthday wishes as well.
Donald Sydney [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Bristol, Avon, United Kingdom
Tuesday, April 13, 2004 at 19:48:51 (UTC)
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Dear Tash
Happy 18th Birthday to youuuuuu!!! I hope you're having a wonderful one and a fantastic year. I sent you an ecard but not sure if it worked, so this is just in case. Lots of love to you and Happy Birthday to Ron as well.
Fiona
Fiona Gayther (née Ferguson) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tytherington, Gloucestershire, United Kingdom
Tuesday, April 13, 2004 at 16:05:34 (UTC)
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Natasha
Hope you had a wonderful Birthday. Sorry Chris and I are late sending you wishes. We hope that the future is great for you. You are a wonderful person and you deserve a fantastic life.
Lots of love
Chris and Ada
Tina, Johnny, Linda, Heather, Gary, Tash and Scott
Thank you all for the best wishes for my birthday. I was thrilled to receive them. Hope that you are all keeping well. Take care of yourselves.
Love Ada
I had a wonderful day. We had a braai with lots of friends and family around. I was spoilt rotten by everyone. It was fantastic.
Arthur
Your envelope arrived safely whilst we were away. We will be in touch. Oh by the way you made the mistake of putting your address on the back of the envelope - living dangerously hey!!!!
Love Ada and Chris
Ada Cantrell (née Wienand) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hastings, East Sussex, England
Tuesday, April 13, 2004 at 09:39:19 (UTC)
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Natasha & Ada many Happy Returns of the Day
and Natasha you suprise me telling me the old man is 74 I thought he was about 35 love to you both Johnny.
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Tuesday, April 13, 2004 at 05:07:10 (UTC)
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A quick hug and a hi to my little sister in Perth, Ali, who can read the GNR but has problems posting for a bit. Hope you are back soon with your art web site and your facts about elephant toes and so on.
Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Tuesday, April 13, 2004 at 04:54:29 (UTC)
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Fox & Firkin
We originally had a 'British' ( yeah, one of those!)Pub just around the corner from us, on the border of Newport Beach and Irvine, CA. It was called The Fox & Firkin, run by some wild guy called Stan, who claimed to have worked for the parent Company. It only last about 3 years. The food was alright to start, but declined rather rapidly. He opened another one in El Toro about 4 miles south, but that went belly-up in a heartbeat. We were told so many things about the Company, about how great it was etc. but now all is history. It's amazing how many businesses go BK and have a fire! Those of you from the old Ndola days might remember Paul Hollander - he had a similar situation just next to the Elephant and Catchpole. Maybe LC jnr. will recall the incident?
Ken Fernie [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Irvine, California, United States
Tuesday, April 13, 2004 at 01:25:13 (UTC)
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NATASHA ........
HAPPY, HAPPY BIRTHDAY to youuuuuuu!
May you have many silver linings and rainbows in all your years to come.
Love and BIG hugs,
Mo xoxoxoxoxoxo
Moira Steevens [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Brisbane, Australia
Tuesday, April 13, 2004 at 01:03:53 (UTC)
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Ada and Natasha!!!
Two gorgeous girls. Happy birthday both of you.
Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Monday, April 12, 2004 at 23:49:35 (UTC)
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Happy 18th Birthday Natasha!!
Lots of love
Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Monday, April 12, 2004 at 20:52:47 (UTC)
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Ronald (Ron) Brassington .... 13/04/1930 & Natasha Brassington ...... 13/04/1986.
To my Daughter Natasha ...... Happy 18th Birthday young lady. Thanks for bringing me 18 years of joy, delight and pride. Have a wonderful day tomorrow. Sorry we all got you so drunk yesterday!!! Hee hee.
Love Dad & Scott.
To my Father Ron ..... thanks for being there over the past 51 years for me. 74 ..... a good age and still going strong ...... we love you very much and I particularly respect your humour, wisdom and most importantly thanks for being a wonderful father & grandfather.
Love Gary, Natasha & Scott.
Ada Cantrel.
Belated Happy Birthday to you. Hope Chris & the family spoilt you excessively. You are a wonderful lady & deserve all the attention. :-X
Gary, Natasha & Scott.
Gary Brassington [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Banbury Oxon, United Kingdom
Monday, April 12, 2004 at 20:46:40 (UTC)
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Doron and Ron,
I had a feeling that organising this from the other side of the world would yield a result like this. If I was there I would have done a drive-by. I must be psychic.
I will figure something out and get back here in the next 48 hours.
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Macksville, New South Wales, Australia
Monday, April 12, 2004 at 01:29:07 (UTC)
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Ada Cantrell and Bobby Gillies:
Happy birthday to both of you.
Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Sunday, April 11, 2004 at 20:49:06 (UTC)
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Doron,
Bad news about the Fox & Firkin. Given that we may get some GNR's from Seattle we should find a pub accessible to them? When Craig returns from his wanderings we can get our heads together.
Cheers
Ron Sayer [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Sunday, April 11, 2004 at 16:30:06 (UTC)
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Many happy returns Bob,
Hope theres many more to come.
Rossley Gillies [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Leicester, United Kingdom
Sunday, April 11, 2004 at 15:51:47 (UTC)
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Bob,
Happy Birthday,Madala.
Thanks all for the messages of condolance.Moms memorial service is on Monday in Kitwe.
Allan nice to hear from you again,thought you had vanished to places unknown.I work in Edinburgh maybe we can get together to sink a few Senga Golds,or what ever together.
Once again thanks to you all.G.N.R. makes it a whole lot easier to cope.
Pappy Papier [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Glasgow, United Kingdom
Sunday, April 11, 2004 at 15:39:18 (UTC)
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Just a heads up,
The Fox and Firkin went bankrupt, then mysteriously caught fire. So it's not too busy on saturdays.
Doron.
Doron Grill [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Sunday, April 11, 2004 at 14:42:42 (UTC)
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HAPPY BIRTHDAY BOB. ALL THE BEST FOR THE COM ING YEAR. DON'T FORGET YOU'RE GETTING OLDER NOW SO TAKE IT EASY.
LOVE
YOUR MUMXXXXXXXXX
Dennie Gillies (née Dowdeswell) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Broughton Astley, Leics, England
Sunday, April 11, 2004 at 11:57:00 (UTC)
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Happy-Happy Bobby
Maningi more...
Best wishes
Sue & Paudie
Sue Coughlan (née Forde) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, WA, Australia
Sunday, April 11, 2004 at 10:35:52 (UTC)
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Have returned back from Zambia after the fishing competition and just been touring Oman with my kids who are here on holiday. So have missed quite a list of postings. Will try to read them all when I have time.
However, we did not do too well in the competition but had a great time. My fishing partner Margie Webb says that her father, also Webb, played the Drums in a band or several bands. Nicknamed the Frog, do any of you have a story? She would love to hear some. Margie is not on GNR but will get her to join.
Happy Easter to all,
love, jane
Jane Todd (née Zwanenburg, formerly Bye, Kelly) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Shatti Al Qurm, Muscat, Oman
Sunday, April 11, 2004 at 10:14:00 (UTC)
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Ada Cantrell, Angela O'Connor-Smith, Bob Gillies, Terry Foote, Donald Sydney
Best wishes on your birthday
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Sunday, April 11, 2004 at 05:54:48 (UTC)
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Heather, agian thanks for your knowlege.
What is still great to see in Lusaka, is the wonderful garden round-a bouts. today they are sponcered, and the palms and space remain, however some of the parks are closed off or built on, , but Lusaka is still lush.
Pat McEnery [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Bromley, Kent, England
Saturday, April 10, 2004 at 23:03:44 (UTC)
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Heather sorry for posting thinggs I can't spel, they are nice flowers, Apologies To the Saunders family, the murder was to the upper gardens.
Pat McEnery [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Bromley, Kent, England
Saturday, April 10, 2004 at 22:36:55 (UTC)
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Now you see, if Hooters in Surrey had just taken a page out of the Ipi Tombi book, it would be a thriving enterprise. Fifi, still keeping her kit on if so inclined, could have gone down there to train the girls.... We could have come up with expensive green drinks called chameleons and sold flipflops and had a band. So you could pata pata in your Batas. Sigh, so many brilliant ideas so little time.
It occurs to me, actually that what started as a joke posting, once MODIFIED, has a heckuvalot of potential for a restaurant. I am giving away a very good idea free here, so if you have the capital or contacts to put it into operation, remember me with your first check hey? I'm also available as a Consultant.
I'm going to check out some further ideas that are spinning round my head along this theme for the Dallas market.
Happy Easter everyone. Please no one shoot the Easter Kalulu.
Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Saturday, April 10, 2004 at 21:09:55 (UTC)
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Ron,
Thanks for the amusing reasons for the demise of Hooters in Surrey. :)
As for the Fox and Firkin getting busy on a Saturday night -- I'm sure it will. Hopefully the 6:00 pm time will mean that whoever shows up will be there before the rush.
Ali,
Let me know when you're back on-line at home, as your mail box is full. Thanks.
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Macksville, New South Wales, Australia
Saturday, April 10, 2004 at 20:18:10 (UTC)
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I heard from a friend that Ed Rybicki was trying to contact me. Well, I am here in Hampshire please contact when you get this.
Debbie
Debbie Ponnaz (née Hodgson) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hampshire, United Kingdom
Saturday, April 10, 2004 at 09:33:45 (UTC)
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Donald:
Please accept my sincere condolences on the death of your father.
June
June Dobson (née Jocks) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Christchurch, Canterbury, New Zealand
Saturday, April 10, 2004 at 07:10:41 (UTC)
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For those who knew my father George Arthur Sydney, better knowen as Arther Sydney, I have to break the sad news that he passed away on the 7th of April at the hospital in Port Shepstone, Natel. Dad lived in N'dola from 1956 to 1962 then moved to Broken Hill until the late 60's. He was the CID officer on the Rhodesian and Zambian Railways. He retired to South Africa, where he and my mother had a good long retirement. They lived in Margate before Mum died 6 years ago, after which dad moved in with my brother Bruce Sydney. I was very lucky with my parents as a young man, as they stood by me through my wild days and between them turned me away from what could well have been a time behind bars. My thanks and love for them will live on with me always.
Donald Sydney [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Bristol, Avon, United Kingdom
Friday, April 09, 2004 at 20:29:52 (UTC)
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Fifi
Watch him.
I can see Johnny being the type that asks for Ipi Tombi vids with you in a grass skirt and then manages to introduce a lawn mower too.
Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Friday, April 09, 2004 at 19:43:34 (UTC)
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When ever I came down to Lusaka from the copperbelt I always found time for around at Chilanga an interesting little course with that chasm to face on the last hole, happy days, Johnny.
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Friday, April 09, 2004 at 18:17:40 (UTC)
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Dear Fiona my heart is quite strong and I would take a chance with it if you decide to send in the pics of you in the throes of Ipi Tombi , Johnny.
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Friday, April 09, 2004 at 18:11:16 (UTC)
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The mention of the Chilanga Golf Club brought back a few memories. A friend who lived in Chilanga asked me one day if I would like to play a round with him. Although I had not played in years, I agreed. I hacked my way round the course and decided to give myself a fair chance on the last hole by teeing off from the ladies T. We were last in and my T-shot was watched by numerous club members sitting on the clubhouse verandah sipping their sundowners. My ball, landing in the middle of the water, sounded like a gunshot while the raucous laughter from the clubhouse still rings in my ears. I hang my head in shame and have not touched a golf club since.
Hans Kunzle [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Larnaca, Cyprus
Friday, April 09, 2004 at 17:10:36 (UTC)
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Pat, Chilanga Golf Course was, at one time, one of the best in africa. There was a huge stone quarry before the clubhouse where the water was so clear you could see the fish 5 metres down. I did Standard 4 and 5 at Parklands Primary in 1960/61, while living at Chipongwe. Longridge Dam opposite Munda Wanga and the glf club quarry were my fishing spots. I still have the two leather cover books given to me as 1st Prize in Std 5 - The Invisible Man and The First Men on the Moon by H G Wells. I also still have my savings book from Chilanga Post Office with 11/6 in it. Do you remember the Wecke's, Richardsons and Dallas familys?
Bob Gillies [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Springs, Gauteng, South Africa
Friday, April 09, 2004 at 15:41:59 (UTC)
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Dear Johnny
Do you think your heart could stand it? I think there have been quite enough photos of me on the GNR which is, after all, a family website (sorry Dawie, only kidding), never mind one of me bare chested! I would have thought that after a couple of the X-rated emails you have sent me recently, your thirst for nekked ladies would have been quenched. Beware of going onto Johnny's mailing list if you have a weak stomach! Kidding again, most of them are good fun!
Fiona Gayther (née Ferguson) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tytherington, Gloucestershire, United Kingdom
Friday, April 09, 2004 at 11:06:39 (UTC)
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Dear Fiona could you get some one to take a pic of you doing your gyrations in your grass skirt (bare breasted of course) with maybe a spear in your hand and send it it to Art to publish and delight us all ? Johnny.
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Friday, April 09, 2004 at 08:52:53 (UTC)
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Arthur Thomas, Robert Green, Anthony Edey
Best wishes on your birthday
Pat McEnery
Are you talking about Ralph Saunders who started Munda Wanga as a botanical gardens? He also laid out all of Lusaka's gardens. He was, to the best of my knowledge, not murdered but died a natural death. After he died, the lawyers dealing with his estate contacted my family as he had a Boxer dog and as we have bred Boxers for many years, they asked us if we could take the dog, which we did. She died about eight years later, so was still very young when she came to us.
Cathrine Nelson
I'm busy at the moment collecting/writing up information on tourism in Zambia which will be added to my web page in due course. As soon as I have done that, you can send prospective visitors in that direction. In the meantime, you can tell them to email me.
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Friday, April 09, 2004 at 08:16:34 (UTC)
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Heres one for the pot, MUNDA WANGA, do recall Alex Chanda (Major) the snake man, he used to let the snakes bite him, drink the venom etc, I think He was bitten 94 times before the grime reaper said your taking the venom, as he was a politician liked by some not by others. Above that was the altnernative munda wanga, can't remeber the old boys name, can any one help, I think he was murdered, give us a clue, all the same the area was fantastic. Chilanga golf club anther jewel, full of lechwe and 11 holes.
Pat McEnery [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Bromley, Kent, England
Friday, April 09, 2004 at 02:09:59 (UTC)
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IPI 'N TOMBI
Even before the discussion about Ipi 'n Tombi I made a bid on Ebay a couple of weeks ago for the original record for it and won! It arrived today and I still think it's the best recording, with Margaret Singana (RIP) singing on it. Her voice is so superior to Miriam Makeba's, who sang after her. I feel so lucky to have won the auction and have spent all evening listening and "jiggling" to it. Pata pata! I just love the rhythm of African music!!
Fiona Gayther (née Ferguson) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tytherington, Gloucestershire, United Kingdom
Thursday, April 08, 2004 at 21:45:21 (UTC)
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Pappy & Lydia
I'm so sorry to hear about the loss of your mother. My thoughts are with you and your family. Love and best wishes
Fiona
Fiona Gayther (née Ferguson) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tytherington, Gloucestershire, United Kingdom
Thursday, April 08, 2004 at 21:34:54 (UTC)
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Sorry to hear the news about your Mum Pappy, Condolences to you Frank and Lydia.
Alan Hogg [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Edinburgh, United Kingdom
Thursday, April 08, 2004 at 21:17:38 (UTC)
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This Easter Weekend I suspect that many of us GNR's will be reflective thinking on its meaning, as well as perhaps, spending time remembering the treasured past. My mind certainly has the habit of drifting back in time. What do we call it? A-a-a-ah yes, "The good old days." In any event, I picked up "Cry, The Beloved Country." and thought I'd share a small part of it with you. Alan Paton takes the trouble to quote this passage in his "NOTE ON THE 1987 EDITION" of his book . . . . . . .
"Cry, the beloved country, for the unborn child that is the inheritor of our fear. Let him not love the earth too deeply. Let him not laugh too gladly when the water runs through his fingers, nor stand too silent when the setting sun makes red the veld with fire. Let him not be too moved when the birds of his land are singing, nor give too much of his heart to a mountain or a valley. For fear will rob him all if he gives too much."
and in later paragraph, referring to love for one's far distant country, he writes . . . . . . .
"All I know is that it changed our lives. It opened the doors of the world to us, and we went through."
H-m-m-m-m-m . . . . . . . . . . . . . . he sums it up rather nicely wouldn't you agree? .
Glen Drake [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
California, United States
Thursday, April 08, 2004 at 18:57:49 (UTC)
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Easter Message
Wishing all of you a blessed and above all, a safe Easter.
Cheers
David Gray [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
South Africa
Thursday, April 08, 2004 at 15:36:09 (UTC)
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Ian Green, Bernadette Smart
Best wishes on your birthday
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Thursday, April 08, 2004 at 15:11:56 (UTC)
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Glen - thanks but no need to mail me anything ; it was good fun hunting down that picture . Just finding the right answer was a reward in itself . So thank you anyway .
I liked the spirit and life that the Animals brought to their music - "We gotta get out of this place " was a another signature song often yelled really loudly , by certain patrons , when leaving a scene of chaos - bar or dancehall or whatever .
And Alan Price did some great stuff with the organ on House of the Rising Sun and then some good solo albums and soundtracks . Chas Chandler the bass player went on to manage Jimi Hendrix and Slade and make a mint ......
Doug Waybush [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Maryland, USA, and London, England
Wednesday, April 07, 2004 at 23:22:52 (UTC)
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Doug - you've got it RIGHT!
Eric Burdon of "House of the Rising Sun" and "Don't let me be misunderstood" fame . . .
So now we see the transformation of a singer who over forty years has left us with memories of the "sounds" of our youth.
Eric Burdon now still tours the world with his band as "The New Animals" and the picture taken of him and I together was at The Galaxy in Costa Mesa about three weeks ago.
On May 11th. he'll turn 63 years of age. He still belts out good songs and does so over two hours without taking a break . He has a great group and anyone who attends one of his shows will leave as a satisfied "fan".
So Doug, well done. Get my email from my profile and email me your postal address and I'll be sure to mail you off a suitable item in recognition of your prowess as a detective.
Glen Drake [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
California, United States
Wednesday, April 07, 2004 at 18:48:45 (UTC)
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Glen - then it must be Eric Burdon , lead singer of the
Animals . I knew I recognised that face from somewhere.
Doug Waybush [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Maryland, USA, and London, England
Wednesday, April 07, 2004 at 18:25:58 (UTC)
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Doug - sorry, no cigar again this time.
Del Shannon far too tame. This was one of the sixties bad boys.
Glen Drake [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
California, United States
Wednesday, April 07, 2004 at 16:51:43 (UTC)
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Glen - Del Shannon ?
Doug Waybush [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Maryland, USA, and London, England
Wednesday, April 07, 2004 at 16:25:56 (UTC)
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June sorry I do not have your EM address please FW through the GNR send message system Johnny.
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Wednesday, April 07, 2004 at 09:16:47 (UTC)
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June I will add you to my mailing list if you want me to as I send out a couple every day to a band of selected friends, I can hear them saying You'l be sorry, but you can have a trial run and if I dont get a message saying stop you will be on the list, some are a little risque for the road that is why not to many on here. Johnny.
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Wednesday, April 07, 2004 at 08:59:19 (UTC)
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Johnny - have you run out of jokes????
June
June Dobson (née Jocks) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Christchurch, Canterbury, New Zealand
Wednesday, April 07, 2004 at 07:35:53 (UTC)
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Warm though somewhat belated congratulations to Arthur and Trish on your 35th wedding anniversary.
I have not been able to post messages for some time due to loss of access to my old (ie work) computer with its mnemonics for passwords including the GNR (due my recent retirement) .
Were you actually married in Zambia, Kitwe perhaps?
It will be the turn of Karen and myself on 14th May, if we can hold on together another 6 weeks or so ...40 years in our case. Perhaps a gong is due???
We were actually married in Newcastle NSW about one year before we moved to the Copperbelt (NCCM) in July 1965. Three of us (incl. baby Linda) returned to Oz in late 1968.
Anyway, Arthur and Trish, all the best wishes from Karen and me.
Robert Allan [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Melbourne, Australia
Wednesday, April 07, 2004 at 01:49:02 (UTC)
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Doug, no, not Dion Dimucci.
For both you and June - here's a picture of the "mystery man" taken in Toledo, Ohio in 1994 - ten years ago. It even has his autograph so now you've got no excuses. His writing is as bad as mine so you may still need a further clue . . . . . or do you?
Glen Drake
Glen
Sorry for the delay, just a little busy just now.. - your mystery man is posted above, together with the first image posted a few days ago.
Broken Hill members
Here's the link to the draft Broken Hill Map with the numbers I allocated to the roads.
We have to have names for the numbers. When I get a few moments to spare I will put up a list of the names given so far on this and last months message board.
Hartley & Sue
Congratulations to you both, I hope you both have very many more happy years in the future.
To everyone else who posted messages and sent e-mails to Trish and I following our 35th Wedding Anniversary, thank you all for your kind thoughts - from both of us.
Arthur
Arthur Steevens [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stockport, United Kingdom
Tuesday, April 06, 2004 at 19:31:19 (UTC)
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Doug, not it isn't Dion Dimucci.
We'll see if Arthur has the time to post another pic sent him yesterday which shows the "mystery man" and what he looked like 10 years ago. If Arthur doesn't post it by tomorrow I'll let everyone know his identity. I suspect there will be quite a few GNR's will go back and review the original pic I posted as they will surely think I'm "full of it " when they find out who it is!
Glen Drake [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
California, United States
Tuesday, April 06, 2004 at 18:29:50 (UTC)
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Back on line after a serious burglary at work and getting the PC fixed again.
Pappy sorry to hear about your mum's passing. I remember her from Kitwe. see you in december. Ross are you still there? I see Ipi 'n Tombi is on the go. I still have the original LP from way back in good condition. Must play it again soon. Time, time, time.
Bob Gillies [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Springs, Gauteng, South Africa
Tuesday, April 06, 2004 at 16:36:43 (UTC)
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Broken Hill Street Map.
Perhaps it's not general knowledge that all the street names in Kabwe for the Mine Accomodation was alphabetical and named after flora in general. I can't remember them all but it started with Acacia, Begonia, C?, Daisy, E, Foxglove, Godisia (spl?), Holly, Iris, Jasmine, Kocha (spl?) Lobilia(spl?), Mimosa, Nerina (spl?).
That's my small contribution to putting the map together.
David Hoyle [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Muscat, Oman
Tuesday, April 06, 2004 at 16:16:07 (UTC)
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The BH Map was posted on March 6 - go to the archives for previous months...
Peter Dielissen [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
Tuesday, April 06, 2004 at 08:22:35 (UTC)
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Would love to find some former school friends who went to Woodlands Primary School from about 1953 and then Jean Rennie school. I left Zambia in 1968 and lost touch with frends over the years. Love to catch up with Carol Hargreaves, Minnie Oberholster, Alexis Smith and anyone else who went to school at that time to see how you have all got on - the names are all coming back gradually - I lived in Elm Road, Fir Road, Chichester Road and Carruthers Road and cant remember the last street as my mother moved there when I went overseas for a few months. It has been so good looking up the maps etc and reading all the news from everyone which brought back so many lovely memories - you never realise how good life is until you dont have that anymore and you have moved on to new pastures - so come on everyone - there must be someone out there that knew us around that time frame - close friends Molly and Robin Bence have kept in touch and have intorduced me to this lovely website - if any of you even know what might have happened to any classmates please let me know - also remember the St, Joseph boys home where we had many friends. Look forwards to hearing from anyone
Diana Bailey (née Hutchings) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Tuesday, April 06, 2004 at 04:48:47 (UTC)
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Glen,
Many thanks for the advice on flattening the vinyl records. I'll give it a go when I get from a week away over Easter. I'd like to be in California at the moment. My son is there for a week "in transit" after completing the season as a ski instructor at Club Med, Crested Butte, Colorado.
David,
Pleased to help you unknowingly with the unusual spelling of Wrex. If you just search on Wrex Tarr in Google you will get plenty of sites. In fact the second one on the list refers to the words of "Who killed Kloki Robin?"
What's life like in Muscat? Everyone I know who has been there thinks it is pretty special. I am supposed to be transferring to Abu Dhabi later this year and am looking forward very much to travelling aound in the region.
Keith Binns [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Tuesday, April 06, 2004 at 03:57:31 (UTC)
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A very happy anniversary Artie and Trish.
Craig..
will be back online next week.......(posting this at work.)
Ali
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Tuesday, April 06, 2004 at 02:46:11 (UTC)
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Ok, very funny, but there were a few names, for instance:
Lukanga, Jericho, Nerina, Holly, Lusitu, Jameson, Metcalfe, Lobelia, Chilufya, MacCartney, Mulungushi, Jasmine, Iris, Godetia, 2nd, Foxgrove, Kambwali, Clarke, Mimosa, Chitambo Mission, Mpulungu, Buseko, Libonda, Buntungwa, and of course the inevitable, Independence Way, Nationalist Way and Freedom Way.
CU Rob
Robert Worrill [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Christchurch, New Zealand
Monday, April 05, 2004 at 23:08:41 (UTC)
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Robert Maybe the lack of names is because of the lack of streets in B Hill. Johnny
PS They had a petrol Pump.
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Monday, April 05, 2004 at 22:46:57 (UTC)
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Greetings to you all,
Just wondering if anyone will tell me where the map of Broken Hill with the street names is, on the site. I have just done a quick run through the site and it is not sign posted as far as I can see. I found the map which shows the general locality but there are very few street names on it.
Regards Robert.
Robert Worrill [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Christchurch, New Zealand
Monday, April 05, 2004 at 22:04:47 (UTC)
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Thanks to everyone for your kind thoughts on lose of our Mom.
She will be missed but never forgotten.
Luv,
Lydia
Lydia Beck (née Papier) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lincoln, England
Monday, April 05, 2004 at 21:55:41 (UTC)
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David Heaton.
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to locate Ipi N' Tombia which I remembered from the early 70's. I do thank the ladies for giving me the correct spelling in the first place I actually heard the first few 20 seconds of the music yesterday after visiting www.oneworld.co.za . Its now available on CD (includes the Warrier) and yes will be placing an order.
Keith,
I was trying to find a song by Rex Tar but now youv'e helped solved the problem by the bringing up the correct spelling of his name. The reason being that I remember a song about "Who killed Cocky Robin" and I remembered lots of Zonkie Noyers and Feenies and Sweenies and things. Any help to locate as I couldn't find him on the above www.
David Hoyle [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Muscat, Oman
Monday, April 05, 2004 at 18:07:27 (UTC)
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Keith - place the warped vinyl record on a horizontal, clean, flat piece of glass for 15 to 30 minutes in direct, hot sunlight. Watch it carefully as it becomes flexible and settles - it should be O.K.
Glen Drake [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
California, United States
Monday, April 05, 2004 at 14:55:56 (UTC)
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Ooops, what I forgot to mention on the notice I just posted was that the snake was a Gaboon viper.
Keith Binns [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Monday, April 05, 2004 at 08:17:10 (UTC)
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A couple of recent postings on GNR have jogged my memory of events in Zambia during my days there from 1969 - 1972.
On a weekend trip to Lubumbashi from Chingola my friend and I saw what we thought was a dead snake by the roadside. It was pretty big, huge really at about 1.9m. We poked it with a stick to see if it was alive and it moved slightly. We (he) then killed it and put it in the boot of the car until we got back to Chingola 2 days later. A local animal expert told us that it was deadly and could have easily attacked us. He pinned it to a long plank, slit it from head to tail and finally gutted and stretched out the very wide skin to dry in the sun.
The discussions on "Ek pleeese Deddy" reminded me of the politically incorrect LPs by Wrex Tarr called Chilapalapa and Futi Chilapalapa. These were totally illegal in Zambia and the penalties for being found with them were extremely severe. On another long weekend road trip to Salisbury (before the Zambia- Rhodesia border was shut) these two LPs were acquired and brought back in to the country hidden away somewhere in the car. I have still have them but thay are badly warped and each one looks like a merry-go-round. The stylus jumps off the record at least thirty three and a third times per minute but if you hold it down gently all the tracks play OK. Quite honestly what was funny 30 years ago is not the same now.
I would like to think we have all matured and moved on. I would not dream of harming any wildlife now and those records and their sentiments are things of the past.
As a foot-note I would add that the Wrex Tarr records outsold the Beatles in Rhodesia at the time. I only found this out today courtesy of the internet. Amazing.
Keith Binns [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Monday, April 05, 2004 at 08:06:09 (UTC)
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Cathrine,
Try going to www.zambiatourism.com/welcome.htm
Jill
Jill Aplin [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
South Africa
Monday, April 05, 2004 at 06:56:51 (UTC)
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Trish and Arthur,
Congratulations! Arthur, such lovely words. Here's to the next 35.
Best wishes to you both.
Marilyn
Marilyn Noall (née Shooter) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Western Australia, Australia
Monday, April 05, 2004 at 06:07:42 (UTC)
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Hi Guys and Dolls,
Greetings to all of you, I see a lot of names still visiting here and many of the oldies must now be a little more elderly and maybe wiser, as I am. Congratulations to the team for keeping up the good work, you a bunch of stars but you already know that I suppose.
I wonder how many of you don't know that there are people looking for you in the "Looking for...." section, or is it just that you have found each other but not cancelled the message? There must be a way, surely?
Anyhow, this message is aimed at all Old Boys of St Stephen's College, Balla Balla. Just in case you have forgotten or hadn't heard there is a site for Saints Old Boys and you might be left behind if you don't pay it a visit. Things are happening!
Linda, how's things with you Medem?
Dave Heaton, hang in there friend, I got through to Andy eventually, thanks for the info.
Doron Grill, you son of a gun, whats potting in the US of A, China. Are you still vendoring? E-mailed you but you bounced, so nothing's changed hey?
To those of you who may have known Brian Loughlin from Pinetown, and who originated from the other side of the Zambezi, close to the township of Harare, educated at Ellis Robins, married to Jenny Myers, finally, after 13 years succumbed to lymphatic cancer. His friends and family miss him as do I. Rest in Peace mate, your Maker, like it or not, has a better plan for you. A nicer, truer, straightforward, simple, quiet fellow and friend, you couldn't meet! See you on the other side, Chum.
Peter Morris [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Pinetown, Natal, South Africa
Sunday, April 04, 2004 at 22:28:46 (UTC)
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Kate and Trish
It was realy good to see you again after 38years!!
Did you manage to find Lanark ok? and did you have a safe drive back home?
Etta and I enjoyed your visit. It was good to talk about the old days again. You both haven't changed any, still as daft and lovely as ever.Trish thanks again for the peppermint crisps they were wonderful.
Thanks again for dropping in and for the memories.
Love.
Etta and Nicky.
Nicky Kontou [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Sunday, April 04, 2004 at 21:45:55 (UTC)
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Heather,
Thanks so much for describing your participation in the show on SA.
Americans are not very adventurous travellers but every now and again I meet someone who is taking the plunge and either going to Kenya on 'safari' or South Africa to see the sights.
I would love to steer them towards Zambia but really don't know the Websites, travel operators, and names of people and places to contact. I imagine a few others on this site would also appreciate a short list to tell novices where to go to research a safe and hassle free vacation. The Dummies Guide to Zambia for Americans, Europeans etc!
And thanks for all you do and the time you take to tell us what you've been up!
Cathrine Nelson [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Washington, DC, United States
Sunday, April 04, 2004 at 21:38:56 (UTC)
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Pappy and Shirley and family,
So sorry to hear of the passing of your Mum, Pappy. Please accept our deepest condolnces.
Jill and Otto
Jill Aplin [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
South Africa
Sunday, April 04, 2004 at 20:06:57 (UTC)
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Heather,
Just email me the contact details and I'll collect and store the painting for you.
You really chose, what I consider, a controversial street name. Most of the streets were named after either missionary/explorers or CJ Rhodes cronies. George Gray(note the spelling) could have been named after George Grey - who led the Grey Scouts in the Matabele Rebellion, and also found copper at Kansanshi in 1899.
Other street names that are more easily traced are:
Bisset Street - Capt. Bisset fought for the BSA Co in the Matabele Wars.
Arthur Lawley Street - Capt. Arthur Lawley - British South Africa Co. Administrator in Bulawayo.
Joseph Thompson Ave. - one of CJ Rhodes concession seekers - especially Katanga area.
Davey Ave : T G Davey found carbonate of lead at BH in 1902.
Coryndon Street - after R T Coryndon - a very interesting man - Deputy Administrator for the Western Division - in addition to being British Administrator in Barotseland - with HQ in Kalomo.
Jameson Ave after Leander Starr Jameson - CJ Rhodes's 'loose cannon' in the infamous Jameson Raid. His codename in the raid was 'Zahlbar' and CJ Rhodes had the codename "Zebrawood'.
If you need any more info. I'll oblige.
Regards
CJ
Charles Cartmill [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stellenridge, Cape Town, South Africa
Sunday, April 04, 2004 at 17:53:32 (UTC)
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Heather,
Thanks for the info on Lufupa. It looks a little different than in my day. Too bad....I guess that's progess!
Steve
Stephen Haslam [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Napanee, Ontario, Canada
Sunday, April 04, 2004 at 15:46:14 (UTC)
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David Howell, Steve Clarkson, Patricia Jackson, Stewart Bragg, Peter Holmyard, Jeni Smithies, Mickey Lukan, Allen Walker
Best wishes on your birthday
Steve Haslam
I haven't been to Lufupa for a number of years, but their web page can be found here
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Sunday, April 04, 2004 at 13:37:45 (UTC)
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Hi Linda...
If... I was going to snipe that NR guide I would not have posted the link on the board :)....
Peter Dielissen [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
Sunday, April 04, 2004 at 08:57:20 (UTC)
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Peter:
Are you planning on sniping the NR guide off e-Bay? It looks quite interesting. My birthday is on the 15th, so you can just send it regular mail to me when you get it. (grin)
Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Sunday, April 04, 2004 at 05:25:28 (UTC)
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Pappy and Family
We're so sorry. Remember - she will never 'leave' you - she's in your heart and head forever.
Sincerely
Sue & Paudie Coughlan
Sue Coughlan (née Forde) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, WA, Australia
Sunday, April 04, 2004 at 05:24:22 (UTC)
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Pappy and family:
Please accept my sincere condolences at this very sad time.
June
June Dobson (née Jocks) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Christchurch, Canterbury, New Zealand
Sunday, April 04, 2004 at 05:21:18 (UTC)
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Take a peek at this - 1955 guide to NR...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4201473311&category=280#ebayphotohosting
Peter Dielissen [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
Sunday, April 04, 2004 at 00:51:08 (UTC)
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Pappy and all of the Papier family:
My condolences to all of you on the loss of your mother.
Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Saturday, April 03, 2004 at 23:54:54 (UTC)
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Glen - Dion Dimucci ; from Dion and the Belmonts ?
Doug Waybush [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Maryland, USA, and London, England
Saturday, April 03, 2004 at 23:26:35 (UTC)
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The Papier Families.
Henry, Papie, Lydia and Families.
Have just been informed of the sudden passing away of your beloved mother. Words cannot clearly express our feelings of sadness for you all and your respective families, but please allow me to convey our deepest sympathies to you all at this sad time. God bless you all.
With deepest sympathies,
Gary, Natasha & Scott.
Gary Brassington [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Banbury Oxon, United Kingdom
Saturday, April 03, 2004 at 22:48:06 (UTC)
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Grand National
Thanks everyone for letting me know how the horses are after a tough race.
Jilly
Jill Aplin [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
South Africa
Saturday, April 03, 2004 at 22:38:26 (UTC)
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Another book note: Robert Guest, the Africa editor of the Economist magazine will be coming out with "The Shackled Continent: Africa's past, present and future" on April 16 published by Macmillan. Here is a link to an excerpt from the book:
http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=378482004
Chandru Krishna [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Rockville, Maryland, United States
Saturday, April 03, 2004 at 22:29:04 (UTC)
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June - nope.
It is not Mr John ("Johnnie") R.A. Green.
June, have another shot at guessing the person's identity within the forthcoming day or two.
I'll gladly send anyone who guesses correctly something nice (under five dollars of course!) from Southern California.
On Wednesday 4/7/04 I'll post a note as to who it is and I just know a bunch of people are going to react with a "You're kidding!" response. It is going to remind us all that we're getting old . . . . .
This "mystery" person was born in 1941, was in his prime in early to mid-sixties.
Glen Drake [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
California, United States
Saturday, April 03, 2004 at 20:43:46 (UTC)
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Jill as far as could accetain all the horses and all the Jockeys that fell are ok but if I hear any more news on them I will let you know they said that around 60 million people watched the race unbelievable.
------------------------------------------
To the person who is posession of a young looking Green, Hang on to it it could be worth a fortune one day,
Regards to all Johnny.
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Saturday, April 03, 2004 at 20:13:12 (UTC)
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Jill,
If you have not heard Hedgehunter was OK and along with all other fallers returned safely to the stables.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/horse_racing/3594651.stm
Jack Wardell [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scotland, United Kingdom
Saturday, April 03, 2004 at 20:08:29 (UTC)
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Glen Drake:
That photo you posted, I am guessing it is Mr John R.A. Green, also known as "Johnnie"..and No I have never met him..but have seen his picture at one of the GNR.bashes...It sure looks like a younger him...Am I correct.
June.
June Bohl (née Walker, formerly McCarthy) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Los Angeles County, California, United States
Saturday, April 03, 2004 at 19:28:03 (UTC)
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Johnny,
Please keep me posted as to how Hedgehunter is doing. He fell at the last and was flat out. The SA sports channel didn't keep us updated, but I think I heard he was up on his feet.
Thanx,
Heather - if you need any help at all for Getaway, Joburg - really just shout.
Jill
Jill Aplin [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
South Africa
Saturday, April 03, 2004 at 19:14:02 (UTC)
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Grand National
I was going to tip Amberleigh House to win the Grand National at 16-1 but lost track of time and was unable to get it onto the board before the race started...... :)
But I do remember in 1965/6 a horse called Anglo winning. Made a pile on that one as I was working for AAC at the time.
Peter Dielissen [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
Saturday, April 03, 2004 at 18:33:21 (UTC)
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Congratulations Arthur & Trish The first 40 years are the worst, have a great time Johnny.
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Saturday, April 03, 2004 at 17:49:55 (UTC)
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Arthur and Trish.
Congratulations.! Wishing you both much Happiness on this day and always.
June
June Bohl (née Walker, formerly McCarthy) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Los Angeles County, California, United States
Saturday, April 03, 2004 at 17:19:23 (UTC)
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Artie and Trish:
Happy Anniversary!! Long live love.
Sue:
Thanks for birthday wishes for Mike. I am trying to figure out how you know it was his birthday?
Heather:
You are amazing!
Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Saturday, April 03, 2004 at 16:28:27 (UTC)
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Hi anyone,
I'm looking for anyone who has recently ( in the past 30 years or so!! ) visited Lufupa Camp in the Kafue Game Park.
I have some great memories of spending a couple of vacations there for a few weeks back in the early 60s and would love to know what it's like there now.
Used to be 3 rondavels and a dining hut. I recall some great fishing for bream, silver barbel, barbel etc. Great game viewing base too.
Steve
Steve Haslam [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Napanee, Ontario, Canada
Saturday, April 03, 2004 at 14:32:44 (UTC)
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Butch Attersoll, Lesley Cohn-Clarke, David Hoyle
Best wishes on your birthday
Ron Sayer
Am glad you're going to make it to the Vancouver Vipers and yes, please do start saving for that visit to Zambia - we have the Siavonga Soiree next year (although I'm thinking I might change it to the Sinazongwe Soiree and have it on the houseboat there - this will depend on numbers).
Ray Wright
The show that I was at in Cape Town was the Cape Getaway Show (Getaway is a South African travel magazine for those not familiar with it). This was the first time Zambia had been represented at this show and it was also the first show where the private sector have taken the initiative and driven everything (without the ZNTB, although we had their blessing). There was a committee of three of us that did all the preliminary arrangements (hence my silence over the last two months as I was busy designing and printing various generic pamphlets, signs etc for the stand and also brochures for the eight companies which I was representing).
Getting there was a bit of a nightmare because a lot of the stuff was air freighted down, but some stuff was not ready on time so I took it down with me two days before the show. South African Airways had given me an additional freight allowance, but travelling with seven boxes weighing 180 kg was not fun (my suitcase with my clothes only weighed 7 kg !). But I did turn it to good advantage - made enormous labels that went on the outside of the boxes with the Zambian flag and a map of Africa showing where Zambia was, saying 'Visit the Zambia stand at the Getaway Show etc, etc' (I was accusesd of being an exhibitionist; they were probably right)
We had 37 companies represented by 14 people although all of us made sure that the whole of Zambia was represented (I came away with over two hundred names and email addresses of people who I promised to send information to on their specific requests or suggestions of other places to stay and/or visit when they come up here).
I don't think many people came away with confirmed bookings but the contacts were made and what remains now is the follow up. Although I did manage to persuade a couple who were taking three months off to travel by road to Uganda that they should rather spend the time travelling around Zambia.
I think the main benefit of my being at the show was that whilst the tour operators only know their specific area of operation, I know (and have been to) all (or most of) the areas. I also know the road conditions because I drive rather than flying and all the other bits of local knowledge that one needs to know. I also know lots of little anecdotes or historical facts which really gets people interested. I manned (or womanned) one of the information desks and when other operators were asked a question that they couldn't answer, they sent them on to me.
We also had a breakfast on Thursday morning for 60 travel agents and tour operators and prior to the show, ran a competition in the Cape Times. The prize was a free trip to Zambia (air fares, accommodation and activities all included). We also ran a daily competition from the stand with various prizes of accommodation etc in Zambia.
Of course, we learnt a lot from this show on how we can improve our marketing efforts and we also made a few mistakes along the way which we will correct for future shows. We also had some amusing incidents - like one woman who told me, in her best Seth Efrican accent that 'we are going to Africa this year for our holiday'. My question, in a matching Seth Efrican accent, about whether Cape Town was not part of Africa was totally lost on her. There were also the people who couldn't (or perhaps I should say wouldn't) speak English. They were always quite astounded when I responded in Afrikaans (but I really had to dig deep into the depths of my brain to get the grammar right). There was also many who asked where we lived (they all thought Jo'burg or at least somewhere in SA) and were shocked when we said we lived in Zambia. This was followed by the inevitable 'is it safe?' I guess this is what comes from living in a 'civilised' society, but I can only think how boring their lives must be to know so little about anything outside of their immediate circle.
Where do I find the time? I'm one of those lucky people that doesn't need very much sleep (about 5 hours a night is enough). Then one should not forget that I'm a nosey old bag and interfere in everyone else's business. I also fully agree with what I believe were Cecil John Rhodes' last words - so much to do, so little time - and I try to channel my energy into using the time I have in a positive manner and hopefully also for the benefit of this country. And my philosophy is simple - if the country benefits and prospers, then I will also ultimately benefit and prosper.
Jill Aplin
Yes, we probably will exhibit at the Jo'burg Getaway Show. And we will definitely be at WTM in London in November, Vakantie Beurs in Amsterdam in January and ITB in Berlin next March.
Charlie Cartmill
It was good to see you and Tess again and thank you for the pleasant evening on Monday. I might need to ask you a favour - one of my paintings that was used on the stand got left in Cape Town and I don't want it being sent with the other stuff to Durban for the Indaba. I'm just trying to contact the person who has it and might ask you to retirive it for me. thenyou're assured of another visit.
Dave Gray
My apologies - I should have let you know that I was going to be in Cape Town, but things were a little chaotic here before I left - we were still packing boxes when I should already have been at the airport and then when I got to Cape Town, I seemed to rush from place to place and only caught my breath sometime on Monday afternoon.
Arthur
You have forgotten that you were in the air-conditioned section of my car - the reason you did not have large quantities of the odorant 4-methylphenol on your body. I have now got a new car which is fully air conditioned so the problem of 4-methylphenol should be a thing of the past. The only problem is that I don't use it because I lose too much power and then have to drive too slowly.
Congratulations and big hugs to you and Trish
Craig
Eya mukwai
Broken Hill Map
Am trying to set aside some time to get up to Kabwe and go through the streets and their names. But no time for at least the next month. But in the meantime, I too have been through the telephone directory and here are some of the current names which might jog some memories. You will note that, as in most towns, some of the old names still remain.
Lukanga, Jericho, Nerina, Holly, Lusitu, Jameson, Metcalfe, Lobelia, Chilufya, MacCartney, Mulungushi, Jasmine, Iris, Godetia, 2nd, Foxgrove, Kambwali, Clarke, Mimosa, Chitambo Mission, Mpulungu, Buseko, Libonda, Buntungwa, and of course the inevitable, Independence Way, Nationalist Way and Freedom Way.
Barclays Bank is now listed as being on the corner of Croydon (a typo I'm sure) and Marshall?
I was taking a look at Charlie's list - how many of you remember who the different people were that had streets named after them, George Gray for instance?
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Saturday, April 03, 2004 at 09:23:39 (UTC)
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Arthur
Happy Anniversary
32 years ago the 3rd April was Easter Monday and at 11am I was standing at the front of the Cathedral in Lusaka awaiting Sue's arrival. Yes it is also our anniversary and every year Sue asks herself "How have I put up with him for so long".
Hartley
Hartley Heaton [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Binfield, Berkshire, United Kingdom
Saturday, April 03, 2004 at 08:43:37 (UTC)
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All GNR-ers
Anyone looking for Wendy Armstrong (now called Radloff)
Lorraine Bloodworth (ex Botswana now Perth WA but known by the Fordes from Kitwe) wants to mention that Wendy may be living in Ireland.
If it is the same Wendy, she also has a brother called Peter who lives in London.
To find out more, Lorraine is in contact with Wendy's sister Sue who lives in Gaborone and will gladly pass on a message.
Contact: lanieATiinet.net.au
Sue Coughlan (née Forde) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, WA, Australia
Saturday, April 03, 2004 at 07:13:19 (UTC)
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Arthur and Trish:
Happy Anniversary to both of you, and many, many, more blissful years together.
Have just drunk a toast to you both.
June.
June Dobson (née Jocks) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Christchurch, Canterbury, New Zealand
Saturday, April 03, 2004 at 07:00:14 (UTC)
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Arthur
Sincere apologies - apparently you did. TA.
Sue Coughlan (née Forde) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, WA, Australia
Saturday, April 03, 2004 at 06:18:23 (UTC)
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To any one interested I am having a couple of bob on two horses in the National today Each Way of course.
The favourite Hedge Hunter at 10 to 1 and
Gunner Welburn I think around 20 to 1.
But a word of warning, in the last race there yesterday over the same fences and only in a 3 mile race, (the national is 4 miles) only 4 horses finished out of 11 that started and they are expecting more rain today and they say that will increase the faller rate so
AMBER GASHLY. Johnny.
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Saturday, April 03, 2004 at 05:35:05 (UTC)
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Craig,
A quick update. There is no longer a Hooters in Surrey. It went tits up as the burgers and news articles were not abreast of current developments. That's what one of my friends told me anyway. Incidentally Surrey girls are great. Please don't knock them.
The change of date to Saturday is fine. We may have to change venue as the Firkin Frog gets a tad (!) busy on Saturday night. The exclusive North Share Raven Pub may take reservations ( like the American Indians we may have to wire ahead to make a reservation). I await the reactions wth baited interest. Cheers.
Ron Sayer [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Saturday, April 03, 2004 at 05:01:44 (UTC)
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Arthur
By the way - you never posted my photo of the red spitty...
Sorry to hog the board folks - I guesse the rest of the world are nigh-nighs...
Sue Coughlan (née Forde) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, WA, Australia
Saturday, April 03, 2004 at 03:44:47 (UTC)
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Linda
Please tell Mike Happy-Happy from us...
Sue Coughlan (née Forde) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, WA, Australia
Saturday, April 03, 2004 at 03:39:51 (UTC)
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Arthur,
Always knew you were someone's Knight in Shining Armour... thanks for sharing.
I've always said; if you find someone who loves you - just you - don't let anything or anyone interfere - love is everything!
May you and the gorgeous Trish have another 35 loving years.
Sue Coughlan (née Forde) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, WA, Australia
Saturday, April 03, 2004 at 03:35:49 (UTC)
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Doron Grill,
I hear you are registered at GNR. I've been in touch with Vaughan Burgess who put me on to GNR and I'd like to find more of the friends I knew all those years ago!
I'd love to hear from you and catch up on what you've been doing for the past 40 years!
Steve
Steve Haslam [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Napanee, Ontario, Canada
Saturday, April 03, 2004 at 02:40:42 (UTC)
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Sue,
Thanks for your spirited defence. :) And for the link to the lottery site. Will check shortly.
Marilyn,
I still have both pink thongs, so don't think it was one of mine thrown last week. Don't know what all the fuss is about the fact that the soles are pink! All I ever see are the red and yellow tops. Guess I have become so used to them over the years that I don't even notice what colour they are anymore. I did buy a new pair here in NSW, but the second I bought them I suddenly felt emotionally attached to the old ones. :)
Heather,
Thanks for your very artistic efforts. No extra charge for closing your bold tags.
Peter and Chris,
There is a Hooters in Vancouver, as far as I know. Haven't made it there yet, but last I heard there was one out in the "suburb" of Surrey. People from the area will know why it was located there... because of the easy availability of Surrey girls, of course.
Arthur,
Debbie Stewart in Kamloops, BC, was responsible for coming up with the "Vancouver Verve" tag. Hopefully she will make it.
You're obviously not spending enough time at the office.
Peter,
Thanks for changing the date of your flight, by the way.
Jacqui,
Nice to hear from you! Come on over for the party!
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Macksville, New South Wales, Australia
Saturday, April 03, 2004 at 01:51:24 (UTC)
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Arthur and Trish,
Congratulations to both of you. Don't know how she has managed to put up with you this long, but it's good to see that at least she has aged gracefully.
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Macksville, New South Wales, Australia
Saturday, April 03, 2004 at 01:02:54 (UTC)
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Venomous Vancouver Vipers Valeta for Vocal Vultures
DATE CHANGED TO SATURDAY, MAY 29TH, 2004
Same time, same place.
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Macksville, New South Wales, Australia
Saturday, April 03, 2004 at 01:00:06 (UTC)
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Venomous Vancouver Vipers Valeta for Vocal Vultures
DATE CHANGE
Peter has changed his air ticket so that he will be in Vancouver on Saturday evening, so we have moved this get together to Saturday. Hopefully that will encourage more people to come out who otherwise might not have been able to make it because of distance and/or work commitments.
I have changed all previous posts about this to reflect the new date. Sorry for any confusion or inconvenience.
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Macksville, New South Wales, Australia
Saturday, April 03, 2004 at 00:56:44 (UTC)
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Northerners!
Not many photos in the posting queue just now. I have been busy though, I promise.
Kevin Shone,
Good pics of the giant goldfish! I would've been tempted to try Lake Tanganyika but for the disappointing fact they've gone metric too. I am determined I am not going to learn to do things in sissy French.
Peter,
The Broken Hill draft map was posted on the 6th March. Hope you can pinpoint a few more street names for us.
CJ
Good to see David Gray has come to the rescue, I never thought it would be a couple of Nkana boys finding street names to put on a BH map. I understand clearly now about the Mugwump posting, such a pity that we're not getting much help from the many BH GNR members who lurk in the shadows. What happened to the bloke sounding off about BH being slagged off so much and then threatening to put things right by sending some photos in? Don't worry Charlie, I am determined we WILL get the map done. Mind you it's not just the BH'ers that promise to do things that dont materialise, there is a Kitwe GNR member living not more than two miles away from me who promised to get in touch so we could have a chinwag over a pub lunch. She seems to have changed her mind.
Charlie - the scan you sent in from the 1965 “Copper Post” newspaper - Some coincidence ! I wonder how many of us have passed each other by, in the past and present day without realising it. For Broken Hillians that would of course be every car owner from Nkana at some stage.
Arthur
GNR's - a common thread we all had growing up in the sixties on the Copperbelt was the listening and dancing to the music that, for the most part, originated from overseas, either from Great Britain or the United States.
Attached is a picture of myself and someone (the person with the pen in his/her mouth) who you all know, well, at least 99% of you know by name. Yes - I GUARANTEE that most of you DO know this person's name. Whether any of you have actually MET this person, I can't say, though I'm pretty sure some of you have!
So - here's the enticing challenge.
Who is it ? (FULL name please)
If someone guesses correctly (I'll be VERY surprised) post your response on GNR and I'll acknowledge it by responding back to GNR bulletin board with a few lines praise for your brilliant powers of observation together with a word or two of the photo background info.
If no one guesses it in a couple of days I'll simply let you know who it is.
Whichever way you find out, I assure you . . . . .
YOU ARE ALL IN FOR A BIG SURPRISE!
Glen Drake
Dear Arthur
Here is a follow up snap to a previous one of the Rhokana Swimming Club in 1965 that you kindly posted
It was taken in front of the fountain at the club pool in Kitwe.
Back Row L to R Linda Brophy, Robert Kelly, Linda Fox, Alan Durret, Charlie Fox, Pamela MacPherson, Brian Rowlands, Maureen Vogt
Third Row L to R David Russell, Ronald Seegelaar, Keith Cowie, Lindsay Rogerson, ?, Yvonne English, Josephine Mallinson, ? , ?
Second Row L to R Glenda Sinclair, ?, ?, ?, ?, Stephanie Rogerson, ?
Front Row L to R ? Alan Hogg, ?, ?, ?, Lillian Gibson, Tippet, Clark Russell, Colon Fox
I would be pleased to hear from anyone who wishes to contact me
David Russell
Arthur,
How’s this for a coincidence!
The following scan is from the front page of the December 10 1965 “Copper Post” newspaper.
The young man in the bottom photograph is none other than David Gray – our man in Cape Town. The man in the middle – in the top photograph - is my father Jones Cartmill. I met David, for the first time, 38 years after those photos were published.
Regards
CJ
Please excuse a little self-indulgence, I know Trish reads this board now and again just to check on what I'm up to.
35 years ago today, 3rd April 1969, I got married to my sweetheart and my rock, Trish.
This photo was taken the week before, back then I never could have imagined then how rich and full my life would be in the years to come.
I have been one lucky man to have grown up where I did when I was young and then to meet my girl in my teens.
No-one could have asked for anything more of life.
Love you all my heart
Arthur XXXX
Normal service will be resumed as soon as possible.
Arthur Steevens [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stockport, United Kingdom
Saturday, April 03, 2004 at 00:51:52 (UTC)
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Chris Swart,
I like your trifecta - however - I'm worried about Free My Heart (and even Major Bluff is a risk). I think I'll cover with Yard Arm from Free My Heart and Red Badge.
Regards
CJ
Charles Cartmill [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stellenridge, Cape Town, South Africa
Friday, April 02, 2004 at 21:15:58 (UTC)
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Charles...
Broken Hill....
My mind is toast for sure!!!! Although the street names sound familiar.... Did 4th street run from the station up???
On what date was the map on the GNR? I am going to ask my youger brother to see what he remembers.
I just e-mailed Graig. I have changed my ticket to be in Vancouver Saturday around noon so we can move the party to Saturday night if he wants to. May make it better for everyone else too. Stay tuned to hear from Craig!
Peter Dielissen [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
Friday, April 02, 2004 at 15:52:24 (UTC)
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What a great chuckle I have been having this afternoon!
Craig - you are a ray of sunshine - party on fella! Wish I could join you all in Vancouver! Darn! Can't go to every party I suppose!
Charlie - a couple of those streets are familiar to me - I will peruse the map again and see if I can place them. Did I not give you the location of Elm St and Drummond-Chaplin?
Jacqui
Jacqui Milward (née Lackenby) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
London, England
Friday, April 02, 2004 at 15:34:54 (UTC)
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Bravo
Robert Worrill [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Christchurch, New Zealand
Friday, April 02, 2004 at 15:34:31 (UTC)
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Sian Halsall
Best wishes on your birthday
Small mistake in the address (must have been the thought of Craig's pink rough-riders). Here is the corrected version taking into account Sarky's instructions. Thanks to Margaret de Lange for noticing the error.
Venomous Vancouver Vipers Valeta for Vocal Vultures
in honour of Vintage Peter Dielissen's Visit to Vancouver
If you are in the Vicinity of Vibrant Vancouver, stop Vegetating, get Vertical, Vociferous, Vibrant and into your Vehicle on
Saturday 29 May 2004 at 6 pm
and Venture over to
The Frog and Firkin
1941 West Broadway, Vancouver
(a block and a half west of Burrard Street)
Tel: +1-604-734-3418
a Volcanic, Vibrating Venue
Look around for Craig wearing his GNR cap and his pink (to match the text) flip flops/Bata tropicals/thongs or as they are now known
'Patapatas'
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Friday, April 02, 2004 at 15:13:33 (UTC)
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David Gray,
Thank you for the BH telephone directory. It certainly has helped.
Chris Cantrell & Peter D.,
You’re seldom wrong -- but this time you’re both right! Boon’s Bar (in the 1964 directory) is listed on Broadway. However, DH Patel is listed as ‘Cnr. Coryndon St. & Broadway’ -- therefore, Boon’s was on Coryndon Street.
# 20 is Coryndon Street. This is confirmed by Standard Bank listed on the corner of Coryndon and The Great North Road -- note: the dumb bankers (sp?) didn’t know it was called Davey Avenue! Moving further up Coryndon, Barclays Bank is listed as ‘cnr Coryndon/Marshall Ave.’. If memory serves me, it was across the road from the ‘new’ Post Office -- which would make #27 Marshall Avenue, and not Jacaranda Avenue as originally submitted. I stand to be corrected on this. Duly Motors is listed as ‘cnr Pauling and Davey -- therefore # 19 is Pauling Street.
Broken Hillians,
Do any of these street names ring a bell? Please try and point us in the right direction.
Joseph Thompson Avenue, Drummond-Chaplin , Central Avenue, Kator Road (past the Mine - across from the aerodrome), A/B/C Ave. (off Kator Road), Wallace Avenue, Luapula Street, Moffat Avenue,4th Street. 3rd Street, 2nd Street, 1st Street, Beach Street (Billy Wilson -- didn’t you live here?), Cook Road (Highridge), Goode Street, Churchill Avenue, Rhodes Avenue (R.G. Desai is listed at the cnr of this and Goody Str), Stevens Street, Livingstone Avenue (I think this could be # 30 -- was the Pentecostal Protestant Church the church on the right as one exited town on the Ndola Road?), Beatty Avenue, Edmund Davies Street (the Old Mutual and Zinc Trading Co. are listed here), Cypress Street, Pickard Crescent, George Gray Street (Sable Cycles and Western Traiing were there), Bissett Street, Dawson Street (Peter D...the Frowds lived there), Raliegh Road (Beth Lloyd -- wasn’t this near where you lived? John and Thomas Schmoll lived on this road), Elm Street, Chapman Street, Keyes Place, Mulungushi Road, Beit Avenue, Nelson Drive, Evans Street, Centenary Drive, Selous Street (Ernie Hayes lived there), Queens Close, MacCartney Ave, Frobisher Road (Highridge), Johnston Street, Blake Drive, Nkwaai Street, Conningham Place.
Regards
CJ
Charles Cartmill [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stellenridge, Cape Town, South Africa
Friday, April 02, 2004 at 10:46:23 (UTC)
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Yes, Chris is right on this one...
Unfortunately there is no Hooters in Vancouver hence my trip to Waikiki in July....
And yes, Boones bar was a great influence in my upbringing!!!
Peter Dielissen [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
Friday, April 02, 2004 at 10:04:08 (UTC)
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Just who is responsible for making this one up - "Vancouver Verve" ?
Verve = Energy, enthusiasm.
Really. Someone must have got sunstroke.
Doesn't sound remotely like anyone I know from there so I'm going to have to fix that so I can stop larfing.
Heather, please re-announce the upcoming Vancouver Viper
This is more appropriate: Gaboon Viper, slow, laid back, sleeps for a long period after a good meal, not in a good temper early in the morning, has pink on it, can give a nasty bite, etc. etc.
From now on the names given to these bashes must be a lot more Northern Rhodesian. Wimpish, woose sounding names are not permitted.
Arthur
Arthur Steevens [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stockport, United Kingdom
Friday, April 02, 2004 at 09:43:01 (UTC)
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Ron:
I would be more than happy to be your designated driver. All you have to do to engage my services is to send me a ticket from Austin to Vancouver. I can drive a car, ride a motorcycle, balance 8 people on an njinga, have ridden a camel in Cairo and a bull in New Zealand. For references, please contact a local police station. I should be in their system. (grin)
Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Friday, April 02, 2004 at 05:48:04 (UTC)
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Craig,
With Heathers great promo it is a function not to be missed. I shall arrange a designated driver and will see you there. The venue is highly acceptable.. Cheers!
Ron Sayer [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Friday, April 02, 2004 at 01:35:10 (UTC)
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To those heading for the Vancouver Verve:
You can only hope that there is a branch of Hooters in Vancouver. The man from the frozen north has a habit of gravitating to, and thawing out, at Hooters. (I guess it reminds him of Boons in Broken Hill)
I am sure Yukon Pete will elaborate?
Cheers
Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Friday, April 02, 2004 at 01:30:15 (UTC)
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Hi All
For all those looking for the music of africa I have found a site called http://www.oneworld.co.za.
It has them all, I just ordered Jeremy Taylor Ag pleeese Deddy for about £10.00 landed UK
Ipi N'Tombia is there and many others
Hope this helps someone
Dave Heaton
David Heaton [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Derby, United Kingdom
Thursday, April 01, 2004 at 21:38:16 (UTC)
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I am going to try to persuade my Mom to go to Vancouver for the Verve on May 29th. I wish it was on a Saturday as it would be so much better for anyone who lives in the Pacific Northwest.
Allyson Cash [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Washington, United States
Thursday, April 01, 2004 at 18:54:38 (UTC)
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The Barely-Organised Vancouver Verve
in honour of Peter Dielissen's visit to Vancouver
Saturday 29 May 2004 at 6 pm
The Frog and Firkin
1941 West Broadway, Vancouver
(a block and a half west of Burrard Street)
Tel: +1-604-734-3418
Look around for Craig wearing his GNR cap and his pink (to match the text) flip flops/Bata tropicals/thongs or as they are now known
'Patapatas'
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Thursday, April 01, 2004 at 15:15:32 (UTC)
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Doug Hall,
What a moving tribute to your dad. Again my sincere condolences on your loss. It was your dad's sort of spirit that made Northern Rhodesia what it was, and is what lives on in all of us!
Could you e-mail me privately with Len's address as I'd like to get in touch. I know he comes over from Ireland from time to time and stays with Shaun - infact that was how I heard your dad was ill, it was round about the same time that Shaun's brother fell ill. It would be good to catch up with both of them.
Bridget
Bridget Billany [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Blackburn, Lancashire, England
Thursday, April 01, 2004 at 14:22:02 (UTC)
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Craig:
PLEASE be sure to wear your pink thong/s! Although I think someone may have thrown one of your pink thongs at Enrique Egliasias last Friday.
Glad to hear your still partying.
Marilyn
Marilyn Noall (née Shooter) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Western Australia, Australia
Thursday, April 01, 2004 at 09:12:31 (UTC)
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THE "VANCOUVER VERVE"
Sorry, I'm just not as artistic as Heather in creating these messages announcing events. Heather, I know you sit twiddling your thumbs most of the time, so if you're looking for something to do you are welcome to re-announce this event. :)
Following the success of the barely-organised Crackerjack Party in Perth, I am announcing another barely-organised event in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada. This is set to coincide with Peter Dielissen's visit there at a time when I might actually be in the town where I am currently rumoured to live, although if I have my way that won't be the case for much longer. But I digress.
So, Peter and I will be having drinks at the location and time below. If you are in the area and can make it then we'd be happy to see you. Since this is not "organised", there are no cover charges or anything like that; you just show up, hope there's room at the bar, and buy your own drinks and/or food. Since this is located in downtown Vancouver there is no shortage of good restaurants from which to choose, not to mention the fact that I believe the pub where we will meet does serve food.
When: Saturday, May 29th, 2004, after 18:00 (6:00 pm)
Where: The Frog and Firkin at 1941 West Broadway, Vancouver, a block and a half west of Burrard Street. Phone +1-604-734-3418.
As this is not organised there is no need to let me or anyone else know that you will be there, but you can contact me through the link below if you have any questions. You might also consider bringing a name tag if you think of it. I'll bring my green cap with the gold GNR lettering and put it on the table or wear it so that you can recognise us.
Hope to see a few of you there!
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Macksville, New South Wales, Australia
Thursday, April 01, 2004 at 07:20:38 (UTC)
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Correction - Ken Hall and family 1955 to 1976 21 years (not 1956)
Douglas Hall [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Exeter, Devon, United Kingdom
Thursday, April 01, 2004 at 05:11:01 (UTC)
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A LIFE SHAPED IN NORTHERN RHODESIA
Ken Hall Mufulira & Murundu 1955 to 1956.
Members, I hope you will indulge me a bit with this tribute to my father, as I feel there is much of relevance that reflects what this website is about. There is no doubt that the 21 years the Hall family spent in 'paradise' had a major influence on our lives, and I hope the story triggers many happy memories for you. Many of you, whether mentioned here or not, will have participated in our lives, and I remember you all!!
Here goes: -
KEN HALL 05-05-1926 to 26-03-2004
Ken was born in Pietermaritzburg in 1926, the second son and youngest child (almost a “laat lammertjie”) in a family of 5. His father was also born in Pietermaritzburg, as were his four children Peta, Jackie, Doug and Leonard between 1947 and 1956 at 2.5-year intervals, (That was Ken meticulous!!). Ken’s fifth ‘son’, Lee Ouzman, also from a Maritzburg family, was to enter the family more formally, many years later in Northern Rhodesia.
That could well have been where his story ended, as the Pietermaritzburg roots were strong, and he could have happily lived out all of his life there. His career had been mapped out for him by his dad and brother Sonny, who had gone off in the early years of the war and was back with one arm gone. Ken at 15 in 1941 was all for going off and joining the army to do his bit, so they persuaded him that he must first get registered as an apprentice, so that he would have a job to come back to.
Ken duly got accepted by the South African Railways as a ‘Tool and Die Maker” or “Fitter and Turner”, only to find out that the railways was considered an essential occupation, and he was prohibited from going to war. Considering he had been tricked he nevertheless got on with it, and by the end of the war found himself almost qualified and courting Merry Hansen, a Freestate girl from Harrismith, who worked in the railway workshop offices. She was 2 years older at 21, when they found themselves to be “in trouble”, so Ken and Merry, got into his Harley Davidson with sidecar, and set off for Johannesburg to face up to mother, with the request for her to bless their necessary wedding.
Married so soon after the war in December 1945 with a child on the way, and South Africa headed into a recession, they must have been worried about the future. Ken, had been pretty sickly as a teenager, having had Scarlet Fever amongst other things and photos of the time showed a very thin, bespectacled youth, which did not quite fit the Harley Davidson image. A few character-forming years later, and Ken was beginning to rebel at certain aspects of his life. At 28 with four kids under 10 and still with the Railways, he was struggling financially and desperate to improve his lot.
As an English speaking South African in the new Apartheid post war era, he had no prospects of promotion in the railways, which by now were considered the reserve of the Afrikaners. The invitation in 1955 from Les Ouzman, his brother-in-law in Mufulira to visit Northern Rhodesia and see the prospects was like a lifeline. Ken’s family thought him to be mad, when, after just one short trip up, and without any firm job offers, he resigned his ‘job-for-life’, left the family behind and set off to go and seek an improved life on the expanding Copper mines.
Despite the hardship for himself and his family, Ken was highly principled, to the point of stubbornness, a factor that marked the rest of his life. As those who knew him found out, you either loved him or hated him, but very few failed to respect him. After nearly a year of struggling to get on, by doing piece-work for contractors on the mine, many part-time jobs and as a semi-skilled motor mechanic he was beginning to wonder what he had let himself in for. Although there were several Freemasons in his family, Ken never became one, and he turned down offers of a permanent job on the mine (should he join the masons) on principle, and due to his firm belief that it would be on merit alone. Thus it was that, despite the fact that his young family (Leonard was only 2 years old) were now with him in Mufulira in 1956, he spent at least 2 years struggling, before his decision was vindicated, and he started working for Roan Antelope Mines.
Still not able to conform, Ken did not take the easy option of a mine house in town, but opted for the plots at Murundu 7 miles North of, and only 3 miles from, the Congo border. There was of course just a gravel road from town and only a series of dirt tracks surrounding the 5 and 10 acre plots at Murundu, with the plots themselves in virgin bush. Plot no. 10, was one of the 10 acre stands with a small 3 room shack, a long-drop toilet and a 20 foot deep, hand-excavated well for water the only improvements. The tar road and mains electricity came years later, and the family managed in the meantime with a Rhodesian Boiler and a galvanised tub in the middle room where the sons slept, while the girls and Ken and Merry had the one bedroom, the last room being the kitchen.
Ken was a grafter, and wanted to improve his lot, so he purchased a brick-making machine, and employed an African labourer who he trained to make sun-cured bricks for the new house he planned to build. The house was to be a carbon copy (with a few inevitable Ken Hall changes!) of his brother Sonny’s house, back on the farm in Pietermaritzburg, which Ken had helped to build. Remember that Ken was by now a ‘journeyman’ tool & die maker, not a builder, but that was not going to stop him. Ken would come off a full shift at the mine and lay bricks himself until there was no light left to work by. He did the roof himself and made the kitchen units, cupboards and all carpentry work, but recognised that plastering was a skill he would not have the time to master. By about 1960, the family moved into the new palace, which was still un-plastered outside and with the paint barely dry inside. There was an inside bath and a kitchen with running water plumbed into the Rhodesian boiler, and a generator up near the anthill which had a water tank on top. A new well with lovely fresh water, an orchard, a vegetable patch and a chicken run to provide for most of the food needs, and lovely flower beds and lawns organised by Merry. Ken’s early choices were finally vindicated and the good life commenced. GNR members from Murundu, Doug Grewar, Owen & David Thomas, Donald & Gwyneth Thomas, Alan Olivato the Sharp and the Ross family (are there others?), will bear this out!!!
What more could a family want or ask for, there were weekends spent camping in the bush, often at the Kafue River, or across the Congo Pedicle to Lake Banguela, Lake Chila and Lake Tanganyika at Sumbu. The schools from Mary Moffat Infant school, to Mufulira Primary and Muf. High School, provided an education second to none, and Rhodesia was prospering. Who, in these days of cosseting your kids would send a teenager, Bruce Johnson to swim across the Kafue River just below the rapids, to tie a rope to a rock on the other side. This was so that the young ones from Leonard at 5 years old and upwards, could jump into the top of the rapids and catch the rope at the bottom to avoid being swept downstream to where the crocs were awaiting a tasty morsel! Who would let the kids roam the bush after school, to have gang-wars and find snakes and other wild life, swim in the dambos and learn about life by hard experience. That was Ken Hall, and, but for the rapidly moving politics of Africa, who would never have changed anything? We would probably all still be there now, as Northern Rhodesia was truly one of the premier countries in the world!!
24/10/1964 Zambia’s Independence Day set off a number of changes, particularly the rapid deterioration of the schooling system, and the family were once again split with the kids going into boarding schools in Johannesburg as they reached high school age. Ken could still see the potential in Zambia, but wisely moved off the mines after 10 years service to enter into a business at the invitation of Les Ouzman and Nigel Page. Zambia Containers was set up and was a neighbour to other GNR members, the Samaras family (attendees at the Banbury Bash) who ran the flour mill, and the Hagemans doing electrical contracting. Just around the corner A & J Panel Beaters run by our Murundu neighbours the Thomas’, and previously with Johnny van Waarthuizen, who moved to Pietersburg in the early 60’s (a fairly strange parnership between an Afrikaner and a Welshman!).
More change came after the increasing lawlessness and traffic carnage took hold in the country, and after a few incidents and break-ins, and finally the tragedy of the death of Les and Dina Ouzman in a car accident in 1969, the family moved into town. This was when Ken’s 5th child was added to the family, as Lee Ouzman had chosen his uncle Ken & Merry as the family he would want to be with, in the event of anything happening to his family. (What premonition must Les Ouzman have had, to ask that of his teenage son!?!)
Ken & Merry carried on in Zambia until 1976, by which time his family had scattered round the world, and he finally decided to pack it in. Rather than go from the frying pan into the fire, he wisely rejected Rhodesia as an option and headed for home in South Africa. Just 50 years young, and having worked for himself for 10 years, Ken typically opted not to be conventional. He bought a plot right on the seaside facing a rocky beach in Port Edward, and started building again, while living in a caravan. He took the house to first floor level, parked his boat and car in the garages and took off for a year in Europe to have the holiday of his dreams. (30 years later in the UK they are just beginning to call this ‘The adult gap-year!!)
They returned to complete the house, and then another in Port Shepstone where Ken did a few years teaching trade skills to difficult kids, but all the while enjoying his life in Port Edward, fishing from the rocks etc. They looked set to retire like this, and who would blame them, if not envy all he had achieved by this time.
Eventually they found that Port Edward was just too far off the beaten track for them to see much of their family, and despite making many enduring friends there, they decided to move back home, and chose Hilton, just outside Maritzburg. This was to prove to be their last house move, and with some old friends from the 1940’s and many close members of the Hall family nearby and some of Merrys’ also in Natal, they spent their last days together very happily. Tragically, Merry had Alzheimers Disease and 4 years after they celebrated their 50th anniversary she died in 1999.
This really upset Ken and for years he looked for another change to take his mind off his loneliness. He spent many happy months visiting Botswana and staying with Lee in Maun several times each year starting in 1985, and went as far as getting a resident’s permit and planning to build yet another house there. Sadly, the years were catching up and his health took a sudden turn in early 2003, and this plan was shelved, and after 6 months of Chemotherapy, Ken had his last fishing trip in Sept. 2003, and finally gave up the fight 26-03-2004.
Douglas Hall [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Exeter, Devon, United Kingdom
Thursday, April 01, 2004 at 05:09:03 (UTC)
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Ron Dobkins
Happy Birthday - hope you do something nice for yourself today.
Sue Coughlan (née Forde) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, WA, Australia
Thursday, April 01, 2004 at 00:47:37 (UTC)
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A NEW MONTH, A NEW MESSAGE BOARD
The message board is archived at 23:58 (GMT, aka UTC) on the last day of every month. This message is just a reminder that the messages from last month have not disappeared into the bit bucket. They can still be found in the archives. On the archives page you will find links to every message board since its inception.
Following are some tips and suggestions for using this message board and the rest of the site. These notes were last updated on March 17th, 2005.
Important Notes
- All posts to this message board are logged.
- You must log in with your user ID and password to post a message.
- Lost your password? Get it through the password-retrieval form.
- If you don't see your post after you have submitted it, try clicking your browser's reload or refresh button.
- Spam will be deleted immediately and the offending member suspended.
- The small images of the fish eagle's head are a clue that you will see a photograph if you click on it. Pictures will open in a new window.
- To have your pictures displayed on the message board, please read the submission instructions.
- The Great North Road is not responsible for and does not necessarily endorse the contents of messages posted here.
- You can read some more notes and helpful hints on the tips page.
Posting Messages
Only members in good standing may post messages, and a user ID and password are required to post. If the e-mail address in your Names Directory entry no longer works, you will not be able to post; please log in to rectify this situation. To apply for membership, please add your information to the Names Directory.
Lost Passwords
If you have lost your user ID and/or password, you can have them sent to you through the password-retrieval form.
Responding to Messages
To make responding to old (or any) messages easier, you can open a previous message board in a new browser window by right-clicking (assuming you're using a Windows-based PC) the link to the appropriate month on the archives page, and then selecting "Open in New Window", "Open Link in New Window", "Open Link in New Tab", or something similar from the pop-up menu that appears. (You can also just hold down the "Shift" key while you click the link to do the same thing.) That way you can refer to the message to which you are replying while you are typing your reply in the original browser window.
Preserving Threading in Message Replies
The message board includes the ability to "reply" to messages. If you are going to reply to a message (as opposed to starting a new message), please keep your reply on the topic of the message to which you are replying. If you are going to address multiple topics in a single message or are not going to reply on the topic of a particular message, then you should start a new message.
Finding Text on the Message Board
Considering each message board can get quite large, it can be quite a challenge to find a particular word or name, especially if you're sure that you saw that word or name somewhere before. There's a much easier way to search the page than scrolling through hundreds of messages until you're cross-eyed. On Windows-based computers, you can just hit Ctrl+F; in Internet Explorer a small search box will appear on top of the message board (assuming that you already have the message board open) and in Mozilla Firefox a search box will appear at the bottom of the browser window. Just type the word or words for which you are searching into the box, then hit the Enter key (in Internet Explorer) or follow the highlighting (in Firefox) to see where your browser stops as it searches for the word. Repeat as often as necessary to find all instances of your search term.
Getting Your Browser to Remember Passwords
Most (if not all) modern Web browsers have some sort of mechanism for remembering the user IDs and passwords required for some Web sites. To get the latest version of Microsoft Internet Explorer (used by about 90% of GNR visitors) to remember the passwords you have to enter into a Web page:
- Click on Tools then Internet Options.
- Click on the Content tab.
- Click on the AutoComplete button.
- Click to put a check mark in the "User names and passwords on forms" field.
- Click OK, then click OK again.
To get Mozilla Firefox (upon which Netscape Navigator is based, so the instructions are probably about the same) to remember your user IDs and passwords, do the following:
- Click on Tools then Options.
- Click the Privacy icon.
- Click Saved Passwords.
- Click to put a check mark in the "Remember Passwords" field.
- Click OK.
You should still keep a record of your passwords somewhere, as your passwords will all be lost if you have to do something like reinstall Windows.
Submitting Images for Posting
If you would like to have an image posted here, but do not have a server on which to post the image, please read the submission instructions and the "Contributing to this Site" page for some important tips on scanning pictures.
Contacting Posters
In an attempt to defeat spammers who would like to collect e-mail addresses from this message board, e-mail addresses of posters are not shown; instead, a link to the poster's Names Directory entry (or a contact form for non-members) is added at the end of each message, through which members can contact the poster should they so desire. (Message boards prior to April 2002, accessible only to members once logged in, do show "broken" e-mail addresses.) E-mail addresses are not shown in the Names Directory either; instead, a Web-based form is used to initiate contact. If you already know the e-mail address of the person you would like to contact, we suggest that you use regular e-mail rather than using the Names Directory system. Only members may use the Web-based contact system.
Complaints
The Great North Road is not responsible for and does not necessarily endorse the contents of messages posted on the message board. If you have a complaint about a poster's message, complain directly to that poster. Do not contact the GNR with complaints about a message posted unless you are quite certain that the message in question contravenes either criminal or civil legislation. In your complaint, ensure that you quote the legislation and the jurisdiction in question and (preferably) provide a link to a copy of the legislation on the Web, published on an authoritative (i.e., government) Web site. Threats of a general nature will be ignored; death threats will be (and have been) reported to the appropriate law-enforcement authorities.
Contacting Someone Responsible for the GNR
Several people are responsible for keeping this site operational; each is responsible for different areas of the site. While each of us reads this message board to a differing extent, you should use e-mail if you want to contact one of us for a specific reason and require a response. We may miss your message if you post it on the message board.
Have fun!
The Great North Road -- Northern Rhodesians Worldwide [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
1st of the Month, 2004 at 00:00:00 (GMT, aka UTC)
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Important Notes:
- All posts to this message board are logged.
- You must log in with your user ID and password to post a message.
- Lost your password? Get it through the password-retrieval form.
- If you don't see your post after you have submitted it, try clicking your browser's reload or refresh button.
- Spam will be deleted immediately and the offending member suspended.
- The small images of the fish eagle's head are a clue that you will see a photograph if you click on it. Pictures will open in a new window.
- To have your pictures displayed on the message board, please read the submission instructions.
- The Great North Road is not responsible for and does not necessarily endorse the contents of messages posted here.
- You can read some more notes and helpful hints on the tips page.
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