Northern Rhodesians Worldwide
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Message Board
Peter,I publicly accept that yes the northern skies are brilliant, fantastic, etc....and I concede that they may be better than that of the southern skies, though I have never been to Antartica to see the skies down there. : )
Ali
oh nearly forgot .........the photos are incredible.......thank you for sharing them with me.
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Wednesday, June 30, 2004 at 23:54:41 (UTC)
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Ayub
"He only does it to annoy because he knows it teases." It's a wind up. If you want a chuckle, he's actually classifiable as being in a minority.
For the record I do know the humanitarian contribution you make. I've wanted to tell the GNR and you've given me a good opportunity.
Ayub and his wife facilitate his brother's work on the non-medical research and administrative side, organising the pricing and shipment of medicines, funding, recruiting funding sources and the like.
I have personally experienced his kindness with Adesi and her father Boniface Banda at Makungwa ADP near Chipata. Adesi is just a young Chewa teen sponsored through World Vision. So far, so good. She wrote to me this year to say her father is very ill. Some may remember I had asked on the GNR if they knew of doctors in Chipata area. Brothers Ali and Ayub responded. Since they weren't due to be in Zambia at that time, they gave me the direct mobile phone number of the Medical Director of the University of Zambia Teaching hospital, a medical colleague of Ali's and contacted him for me. He agreed to see Boniface free of charge. Heather Chalcraft also got involved offering to organize transport and accommodation if we got Boniface down to Lusaka. She contacted Lusaka office trying to get details. There was also a doctor in Chipata the Zumlas put us in touch with as a first step and Heather called him for me and he was agreeable to seeing Boniface. All pretty special, huh?
The only fly in the ointment was World Vision and their frikkin' do everything via channels and red tape. We had to let them take over the reins and our resources and they are moving about as fast as molasses. I have to liaise with a woman in the U.S. who has to wait on a report from Zambia on what is being accomplished or forget offering any extra aid at all. You should have "heard" Heather on the subject. She was, understandably, ready to take off the heads of a dozen dozy beaurocrats just as a first step. World Vision has another week to work on this. We're mentally about ready to mount a guerrilla operation.
Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Wednesday, June 30, 2004 at 23:21:24 (UTC)
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Arthur,
Hear, hear!
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Wednesday, June 30, 2004 at 22:41:22 (UTC)
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Arthur, trying very hard:
Why did the cat crap under the table there?
If you were to have presented that answer to my old Afriks teacher at Guinea Fowl, you would have been banished to a 3 week stint in Onderbroekfontein, which is only about 750 miles from Pofadder.
Yislaaik, ou boeta, some slopie is sommer going to frow you wiff a stone.
Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Wednesday, June 30, 2004 at 21:30:39 (UTC)
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Just 'cos our parents said we weren't allowed to swim in the sea because of possible sharks (ha ha) did that ever stop us? I can remember swimming at (I think) Margate, being caught in a back tow - is that the term? and being left hanging on the shark nets until being rescued by the life guards (swoon swoon). They were some hunks who were never ever going to notice the likes of me! But scary scary, was knowing that those nets - that I, amongst others, was hanging onto for dear life, only went down so far. And if I could have been swept out to sea under that net, what could have come under....
Lizd [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
United Kingdom
Wednesday, June 30, 2004 at 21:22:26 (UTC)
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Northerners !
Saw these old Ndola postcards on eBay Uk just now. There are 3 other sets for sale too.
I'll try and bid for and get them for the site, at times like these I wish the GNR had central fund to acquire important memorabilia such as this. Maybe one day.
We have had very interesting debates this last month or so, though I see some of you are becoming a little personal and are beginning to drift. If you wish to get personal I would respectively request that you resort to private e-mail and not begin to abuse this website. We used to kick the record player when the needle got stuck in the groove,
Bob Worrill
Thanks for reminding me of some of the best holidays we ever had as kids. I can also remember the Blue Lagoon at Ramsgate - no waterskiing for us unfortunately, but there were billions of tropical fish that swum around your legs when you waded out into the shallow lagoon. Also spent whole days in the kids pool in Margate, we were kept away from swimming in the sea, when our parents were around, the surf was great and the ocean so blue. Also going fishing for shad (I think that's what they called them) off the little pier. We stopped in a small complex of thatched huts just behind there up the slope of the shore. Yes, bananas, 1/- for 50 then, and real pineapples, I can smell them now, and also the Indian Ocean. Just remembering the whole thing does my head in, from setting off from Nkana and all the memories of the places we passed through and stopped at along the way are some of the best of my life. Maybe I'll write up on that sometime.
Chris
Ok
Why did the cat crap under the table there?
Arthur
Arthur Steevens [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stockport, United Kingdom
Wednesday, June 30, 2004 at 21:03:36 (UTC)
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Tea House of the Blue Lagoon. Isn't that where they made the best ever waffles with maple syrup and lashings of cream...? I should have weighed 100lbs more than I did! Toooo divine those waffles were. Or maybe I was just a greedy teenager. Palm Court - was that the 'in' place in Margate? Something like that. And every year, residents of each hotel wore something to identify them. Lucky you if you were at one of the big hotels. Not so good if you were staying in one of the non descript ones - oh my God, you had no identity. How awful for a teenager. The shame, the shame of not conforming!
Lizd [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
United Kingdom
Wednesday, June 30, 2004 at 20:35:38 (UTC)
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Doug Grewar,
"The sardine run", I had completely forgotten that such a phenomena existed until I read your post. I went to Margate for holidays every two years from 1956 until 1967, for some of the happiest times of my life. I saw the advent of the shark nets and also what got caught up in them. I remember the Indian fishermen using kites to get their lines right out to sea. I made many copies of those kites when I got back to Ndola, Zambia, and flew them happily in Kansenji park, starting a minor fad (craze) for a while, does anyone remember that? We used to stay in "Seabrook Flats", the "Kings View" was behind us, on the top floor in the same flat number every time, what a view. The first time we went I think we stayed in Permula Flats (spelling) in 1956. I remember the Hibiscus parade and the beauty shows. There was an old bus where you could buy hamburgers, and the Twentith Century Fox cinema. Almost no billboard advertising, except for the strange train warning signs. Lots of sugar cane plants and pineapples. the "Mountain Inn" on the way down just outside of Louis Trichard (spelling). A secluded hotel which had a stream running through the gardens where you could have a cold coke in intimate surroundings, Mum and Dad used to love that place, I can't remember the name and the "Teahouse of the Blue Lagoon" in Ramsgate, also a place where you could waterski behind powerful motorboats on flat boards in a lagoon just off the sea, a few miles from Margate.
What a happy time that was for me,
"If I could only turn back time"
Bob.
Robert Worrill [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Christchurch, New Zealand
Wednesday, June 30, 2004 at 20:15:11 (UTC)
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Glen,
Try telling that to those people who are suffering in Zimbabwe at the moment!According to your logic..protest a little and than remain silent..and hope for some Divine intervention to sort things out! God help the people of Zimbabwe if they follow your advice..or is it Shakespeare's? Try making yourself useful by spending some time writing to your local MP (as Tina suggested earlier)urging him or her to start doing something about Zimbabwe instead of waiting for a magic wand to appear!!
Ayub Ismail Zumla [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Manchester, United Kingdom
Wednesday, June 30, 2004 at 18:44:21 (UTC)
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Colin
I have just read that Zambia expects to earn US$40 million from 30 million kilograms of tobacco grown on 15,000 hectares. It is planned to boost this to 50, 000 hectares by 2008. That is about 2000 Kg per hectare.
I am used to the old measurements of pound per acre. According to my engineers handbook 1 Kg = 2.2046 lb and 1 Hectare = 2.471 acres. This would give a yield of 1784 lbs / acre on my tiki susu calakulator. Check my calcs but it sounds pretty good?
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Wednesday, June 30, 2004 at 18:39:04 (UTC)
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Guess I have to post this once again . . . .
Ayub -
"Protest too much" comes from Hamlet by William Shakespeare; the Queen speaking: "The lady doth protest too much, methinks." (Note: people do not usually use the word "methinks" when they are speaking English today.) To "protest too much" is to insist so passionately about something not being true that people suspect the opposite of what you are saying. Example: "Do you think he is telling the truth?" Answer: "I think he protests too much."
Glen Drake [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
California, United States
Wednesday, June 30, 2004 at 18:21:21 (UTC)
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Glen
For your information Prof Ali zumla is my younger brother and we all work as a family unit. We all have contribute and have contributed to the Centre in our ways..all of us! Who the hell are you to suggest otherwise!Just shows you what an ignorant person you are! Pity you never had such compassion instilled in you! Bet you..your contribution to Zambia is ZILTCH...apart from slagging the country and its people. What a shame! By the way the Prof spends four months in a year in Lusaka and we still have our family home there! And this country has never given me handouts! So don't even dare suggest that! We work hard ! So stop this nonsense! You stench this board with your "racial " snipes! Think you better get your facts right before "insulting" people on this board. Get of your backside and go sponsor a Zambian child! You are nothing but an armchair critic whose argument is clouded in putting the Zambian people down. Shame!
Ayub Ismail Zumla [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Manchester, United Kingdom
Wednesday, June 30, 2004 at 18:17:58 (UTC)
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Chris
I think those big money interests that are buying up Zim shares are counting on a regime change. Rather them than me.
Northerners
To expand on the story about there being no development in the pre-colonial years in sub - Saharan Africa, Australia and North America; the obvious question is - why? Years ago I might have answered that the indigenous were incapable. However we have the example in the GNR of several indigenous Zambians who despite the deficiencies of the colonial education system have managed to get through University and excel overseas in competitive situations by attaining high success in educational, administrative, and (accountancy) business situations in the USA, Canada, and London, UK respectively. Anyone could be proud of his or her achievements but coming from their backgrounds it is little short of a miracle. So the guys are capable. So what was the reason for lack of developments?
My theory is that it had to do with population pressure in the developed countries where people were forced to compete for limited resources. This led to people having to combine into ever-bigger groups to fight for their share. This led to more effective administration systems, which enabled the building of such things as the pyramids. Thus begun the subjugation of the many to the whims of the few.
In Africa the population was largely kept in check by diseases and if the neighbors proved troublesome one could just up sticks and move away into the next empty valley. We only see some sort of large-scale organization in Shaka Zulu's time when the black migration had reached the southern seas and there was nowhere else to move. The population pressure built up and Shaka moved in with his innovative style of warfare and administration. We often hear of the Corsican, Napoleon Bonaparte referred to as a white Shaka Zulu (or was it the other way round)?
I wonder who was happier; the Africans sitting in the shade of their huts, sipping their kombote or marula, counting the horns of their cattle, while their wives toiled in the gardens; or the Egyptians sweating their guts out under the crack of the overseer's whip dragging great hunks of rock up a slope to gratify some incestuous pharaoh’s ego. These chaps actually got confused and thought that they were Gods, just like some of our corporate bloodsuckers today.
More developed is not necessarily happier as the many yuppies that are opting out of the rat race witnesses.
By the way what Ali is chuckling about is that I made up a well padded envelope to send her a CD and then forgot to put the CD inside, ergo an envelope full of African air! The full envelope should arrive soon Ali. I must be ready for the compost heap!
We have had some unexpected but very welcome rain in Vryheid breaking 3 months drought of cool but sunny days. The Sardine run has started at the coast and the famous Durban July horserace is coming soon. Today the mid-winter temperature in Durban is 24c. Oh to be in Durban, now that winter's here!
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Wednesday, June 30, 2004 at 18:01:49 (UTC)
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Ayub - The "Zumla" contribution is Dr. Alimuddin Zumla’s contribution - you're not suggesting in any way that you deserve credit for the wonderful work this man has done just because you have the same last name, are you? Lest you forget, my last name is Drake – Geez, what does that mean? If I (yes me, Glen!) hadn’t thrashed the Spanish Armada you wouldn’t be living in Manchester? Alimuddin doesn’t live in Zambia either, does he? He lives in London, does he not? Let's see, you live in Manchester and he in London . . . . . . . . . . . . . And even if you had an “other half” willing to re-locate to Zambia, it is a fair bet that neither of you would want to stay there under current conditions. So quit your excuses and stop biting the hand that feeds you. It continues to amaze me that much of your criticism seems to be directed against the very society of which you are now part. It should be against the corrupt nationalists (substitute the word racists) in Black ruled African countries that are bent on personal gain for themselves and those that keep them in power.
Therein lies the difference between you and some other GNR contributors – some of us really do look at Zambia, as Keith Binns so very aptly put in his analogy, as “our” child– see his Tuesday, June 29, 2004 posting. The trouble started when the Colonial Foster parents of Northern Rhodesia returned it to it’s REAL parents who wasted little time renaming it Zambia and then promptly abused it – and they continue to do so. And just like you Ayub, making excuses, the Real parents sit on their backsides and complain about the Foster parents having RAPED (yes that’s the word they use) the child before they were given it back. Well, perhaps with the HIV/Aids stats being at such a high level in Zambia, one needs to ask whether or not the Real parents have taken rape to the next level. What are they doing? Sodomising the child? Let us hope that Dr. Alimuddin Zumla’s work, afforded him by the ousted Foster parents and other non-African well wishers, goes some way to salvage some of the child’s future.
Glen Drake [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
California, United States
Wednesday, June 30, 2004 at 17:44:31 (UTC)
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Peter
You were so very lucky having such a glorious view of the northern skies with such a minimum of light pollution. I bet it was wonderful viewing and yes, any of those pictures please. All that fills my mind celestially during my six months in the remote fjords of north western Iceland were the times watching the great shifting curtains of the northern lights which I couldn't get enough of.
I think they say you can see a couple more of the brightest objects in the southern hemisphere? Actually in terms of celestial objects you can technically see all of the actual Zodiac from both hemispheres at different times of the year and "upside down" to eachother specially the further towards the equator you go, but in reality bunches get lost in the horizon. I think the Megellanic clouds are solely a southern hemisphere viewing features I s'pose sort of the south's answer to the geat spiral in Andromeda.
But it all comes down to clarity of conditions, and various atmospheric pollutions, including African dust. I would love a gander at those arctic skies through your eyes.
Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Wednesday, June 30, 2004 at 17:35:37 (UTC)
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Hi Ali,
Your quote about life being a journey reminded me of the following:-
"The journey home is never a direct route; it is, in fact, always circuitous, and somewhere along the way, we discover that the journey is more significant than the destination, and that the people we meet along the way will be the travelling companions of our memories forever."
Mike
Mike Wilson [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Dawlish, Devon, United Kingdom
Wednesday, June 30, 2004 at 16:47:30 (UTC)
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Ayub: Your family's contribution is ,to say the least, admirable. What is especially poignant, is the fact that the funding is being administered in a proper and accountable manner. This only re-inforces my previous comments regarding the "Wa-Benzi" and the blatant theft of so-called "Loans" . Pity your administrators weren't involved years ago. Maybe, just maybe, we would know where all the money went. I like the term "Misappropriation", a politically correct expression if ever I heard one.
P.S. I really can say nice things when the situation warrants it.
Ken Fernie [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Irvine, California, United States
Wednesday, June 30, 2004 at 15:00:16 (UTC)
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Today at the self-nurturing workshop I attend we had a session on humour , rather a good session........at the end we were given this handout.........I don't think there was a dry eye left in the room.......please read.
much love
Ali
This life isn't serious. It's a comedy. It's an awesomely beautiful journey.. But it certainly isn't serious. Serious is an egotistical concept: it comes form several factors. One is insecurity, another is self-importance, whereby insignificant people use seriousness to make themselves seem more than they actually are. Sometimes seriousness is used as a manipulation, or as a way of imposing from above on people that one considers inferior. With seriousness comes a lot of judgment and a lack of light and laughter and god force. It is a very stony path to take.
Sometimes seriousness reflects a temperament that is less than gracious and magnanimous to others.It can be a form of intellectual snobbery. You can tell serious people a mile off - they walk funny. The cheeks of their bum are puckered like they are holding on to a carrot. I think they feel selected by god to hold a carrot up their rear end until death. That's why you always see carrots growing near the graves of serious people. If you are too serious,start to laugh a lot, play, hang out with children, put on silly clothes, do light-hearted things and cut people a lot of slack, including yourself. Become big in your feelings, and seriousness melts in the light of your heart's newfound goodness.
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Wednesday, June 30, 2004 at 14:20:03 (UTC)
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Chris..
I can go back to Zambia whenever I feel like. I was sent here by my late parents for further education and after graduating I got married and settled here. My other half was unfortunately not willing to go and live in Africa! However our connections with Zambia are very strong and if you ever get a chance to visit Zambia then do go and see the largest HIV/TB research centre set up anywhere in Africa (at the UTH)..and simply ask those administering it..who set it up? That is the Zumla contribution to Zambia! For your information it is tightly controlled and all its financial affairs are well regulated and mantained (from here)...and funding for the Centre runs into millions..obtained mainly from various World bodies, Agencies,Donations, etc It is a prime example of a corrupt-free Body, well-administered and well-regulated! As to the contribution my late father made to helping fund the education (abroad) of promising young Zambian students..I could write a few pages on that. You know my dad did stand for elections as an Independent candidate in 1964..unfortunately he did not win and there ended his brief flirtation with politics! He had many friends and did know the late Sir Roy Welensky..also remember him telling us how the late Joshua Nkomo would call on him...when he was short in his pocket! He always taught us that the family should come first..then everything (including Politics) comes after. You will be surprised to learn taht he owned a Tobacco farm in Fort Jameson in the 1950's. Ill-health made him go to the City and his Farm was "siezed" by squatters! It was not until about 1996 that a Law was passed which allowed for compensation claims to be made for any illegal land siezures in Zambia.. that my dad and uncle managed to recoup some money from their 10,000 acres!
You know Chris there are many things wrong in Zambia..always have been. Many times we all have lived in fear. But then the best way is to look at the positives and work on them. It is a Third world country and things move slowly..sometimes they will not move unless you flash a Kwacha or more! Thats how things have always been! We all get embroiled in this web! No one denies the high levels of mismanagement,corruption...all Races have got entangled in this when it comes to Zambia.But then just because the leaders have "ruined" the country's potential ...does not mean that all Zambians are like that. Compared to all the indeginous populations of Sub-Saharan Africa, (from my experience anyway), the majority of those who live in Zambia are the most peaceful and welcoming. Most crimes involving weapons are committed by Nationals of surrounding countries. But then crime is everywhere. Lusaka is probably more safer than,say,Joberg. That is how Zambia is today...better than what it was a decade ago..you can now buy your toothpaste..and imported biscuits.......State Control of the Economy has been reduced....and for those who drink, Castle is still there!. Yes, corruption is still rife.But then it is a Human trait..always will be..everywhere!
You know if we all keep on bearing grudges for past grievences....attitudes will never change. Perhaps we all need to learn from the Grand Old man...Nelson Mandala.. forgive and try and forget..and move on and try and think positive and make your contribution to Zambia...however small it may be!
Ayub Ismail Zumla [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Manchester, United Kingdom
Wednesday, June 30, 2004 at 10:03:04 (UTC)
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Keith Binns, a huge thank you for your kind offer.....amazing this GNR family...full of kindness.!!
Tina , Peter.The Southern skies are the best....in the middle of the south of the South Island..away from all the city lights , the skies are overflowing with stars etc......and in the middle of the desert of the Goldfields of Western Australia in the dead of night...you can't ask for anything better than what you see in the skies.....bliss........oh and I have always been told that under the African skies are a blissful wonder as well............Ali
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Wednesday, June 30, 2004 at 09:41:49 (UTC)
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If I may go back to the posting by Ken Fernie on 23rd he mentiond one Bob Anderson, and though I was not particularly into the Theatre I did know Bob he was with Montgomerie Oldfied and Kirby, I as working with Peter Richards and Parntners and was involved in a lot of the TTI developments that both had the commissions for, wonderfull days of work in Kasama and Mansa. I am visiting Scotland in the week begining 21st August, we will be visiting another old friend from Ndola in the Dundee area, if anybody knows how to contact Bob I would love to make contact whilst I am in the region, so Ken or for that matter if you can help please E-mail me. Incidently talking about that time, and the LTC I have a wonderfull tale to tell about Nick Montgomerie and a couple of back packers visiting one evening when Nick myself and Clive Ward were having a sundowner, unfortunately it is not a tale I can tell on this site but it was up to Nicks normal high standards of putting people in their place and managing to impress all and sundry at the same time!
Frank.
Frank Yoxall [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Woking, Surrey, England, United Kingdom
Wednesday, June 30, 2004 at 09:05:00 (UTC)
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From Tina...
"Does nostalgia increase the fact that Northern Hemisphere night skies seem tame compared to Southern Hemisphere ones?"
I beg to differ :) !!!!
If you or anyone else sends me your e-mail address I will send you some sky photos of Yukon - where I lived for 10 years.
Also due to the cold, the night skies were much brighter than those in Northern Rhodesia.
Peter Dielissen [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
Wednesday, June 30, 2004 at 08:36:48 (UTC)
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Frank,
Something else we have in common from the past is 1946 !!!
Al the best,
Keith
Keith Binns [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Wednesday, June 30, 2004 at 07:20:30 (UTC)
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Kieth,
Great response, very interesting reading, I too remember doing such things as a 22 year old teacher at Kansenji Secondary school in Ndola, one memorable trip across the border to Sakania, ostensibly to fill up with petrol! particularly comes to mind,but the tale is not for telling here. Good comments too from Pappy, it does me good to read that there are others who cherish their memories of the wonderful time and place we shared even if seperately. Keep it going!
Frank.
Frank Yoxall [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Woking, Surrey, England, United Kingdom
Wednesday, June 30, 2004 at 07:00:33 (UTC)
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Frank, Pappy, Doug, Colin,
Thanks for the various responses to my musings.
I could only speak of my own experiences and as a young innocent graduate engineer straight out of uni in UK was carefully sheltered by the mammoth Anglo-American Corporation in a structured work environment with a good salary, house, health cover, paid leave and other essentials provided. I couldn’t for a minute compare that to being a farmer where the whole investment is your own and you are at the mercy of the market, the weather, the politics, the work-force and so many other factors outside your own control.
We were discouraged from fraternising with the local population and indeed the sports and recreation clubs where we all recreated were strictly for whites only. All the fresh faced graduate engineers were given houses in Second Street (Chingola) and we socialised together there or separately (with other whites) in the club or clubs of your choice. There was very little interaction with the locals on the mine. The closest in my case was almost 3rd party as the foreman, or whoever had the unfortunate job of looking after the baby engineers, instructed or advised the workforce labourers, mechanics, tea-boys and the like.
I’m happy to admit now, in the safety net of the passage of 32 years, the anonymity of the internet and maybe a lot of maturity of our present day thinking that I and a few pommy mates from Second Street occasionally ventured to the African township late at night after the BCEL or the rugby club had closed. We enjoyed the cold beers, the welcome from the astonished Zambians at seeing white faces, the frenetic African music which was played at giga decibels and the pulsating atmosphere. It was daring, exciting, and most definitely NOT the done thing. We all swore each other to secrecy and never was a word of these adventures mentioned at work or back in the normal clubs. It really was good fun. So too were the visits across the border to Lubumbashi as I mentioned in my first posting on this site (22 March 2004). My other interaction with locals was during a 4 week outward bound course in the far north east of Zambia. Rick Skelton and myself were the only two whites amongst 40 young guys on that challenging month. Apart from those occasions though there was very little mixing. Sad isn't it?
Keith Binns [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Wednesday, June 30, 2004 at 06:37:02 (UTC)
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Thanks Gwyneth.
Great hey Ali?
Does nostalgia increase the fact that Northern Hemisphere night skies seem tame compared to Southern Hemisphere ones? You folks must have wonderful sky shows in Australia and Africa. One just thanks one's lucky stars (sorry) that quite a few things can be seen in both hemispheres from a different angle.
But not the circumpolar ones.
Such strong childhood memories of being introduced to my Dad's well loved celestial friends. He knew them very well. I don't. He had his favourites. Certain star and constellation names I will always hear in his voice: Vega, Cygnus, Vela, Puppis. Canopus, Centaurus with all its wonders and its pointers to the Southern Cross, the Megellanic clouds, the richness of the southern band of Milky Way. The eclipsing binary Al Gol in Perseus.
Gwyneth you struck such a chord. There is this power and light and fire in the all-encompassing bowl of the night sky that seems to reach out to absorb you into itself. You seem to be just a collection of puny atoms that can "hear" the hiss of the radio waves from across the universe and feel them passing through you. And going outside to see the first manmade space hardware passing over? "Telstar" is playing in my head.
At the latitude of Cancun and Jamaica in Spring apparently you can easily see the Pole Star and the Southern Cross in the same sky.
Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Wednesday, June 30, 2004 at 02:44:23 (UTC)
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Sorry Keith, the less pleasant memories do not fade. (re your reason why the GNR site is so popular). Who in the tobacco farming business could ever forget the lot of an Assistant Manager in those times, six days a week from Vuka Madoda till sunset and Sunday spent going round the lands being pointing out the faults and mistakes made during the week and what was to be done the following week. Holidays were spent at a time and place decided by the RRR, at least we were not charged for board and lodgings. Wondering if I would get help in time from a snake bite in the fields which hurt like hell and ending up in hospital with malaria more than once! Perhaps I am accident prone! There were not many good times in the bush compared with the cities, but I was happier where I was. Would gladly exchange those times for now with all the hassle of modern day living. Regards Colin.
Colin Munro [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Oban, Scotland, United Kingdom
Wednesday, June 30, 2004 at 01:52:02 (UTC)
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Hey Doug,
Welcome back from Swaziland. I had an Uncle and Aunt live in Mbabane in the late 50's and visted there a number of times. Very pretty place as I recall.
Your recommendation for Zim investments. Always an intriguing thought, but only for a brief moment. Consider this very simple proposition. A Zim company invites me to invest in them with a "guaranteed" return of 50%pa. Sounds good so far. And so off I go to the races with US$10,000 and have been guaranteed a 50% return on my mali.
US$10,000 converted to Z$ at the official rate of 5,350 equals Z$53,500,000
Z$53,500,000 at 50% pa for one year grows to $80,250,000
In the meantime, the Z$ has further devalued to perhaps 6,000 or even 7,000 (not unrealistic thinking?)
Z$80,250,000 back into USD at say 7,000 equals US$11,464, or a 14.64%. Better than a kick in the shorts I guess, but why live with all that risk (of further devaluation, confiscation, blocked funds, etc. etc. I think I will stick with the New York Stock Exchange thank you.
Notwithstanding the above, investors in SA are far closer to the coal face than I am. And I could easily see a lot of interest in investments North of the Limpopo. But they will also be watching for the kinds of possibilities outlined above. Exchange risk and political risk are 2 areas I try to avaoid at all times.
Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Wednesday, June 30, 2004 at 01:20:46 (UTC)
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Gwyneth Thomas
What a fantastic site.......thanks very much...........Ali
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Wednesday, June 30, 2004 at 00:47:06 (UTC)
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Dougie!!!
The bag of fresh African air has arrived ........thank you so much..........giggles
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Wednesday, June 30, 2004 at 00:05:21 (UTC)
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Zumla,
Why is not possible for you to accept the truth? You have a habit of distorting the truth, and when challenged, you start hurling insults. Would you care to tell us why you left Zambia, and under what circumstances? Did you leave voluntarily? Are you able to go back? and if so, why don't you make it happen? These questions are not difficult.
Face the reality. And it has nothing to do with the beauty of the country.
Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Tuesday, June 29, 2004 at 21:45:49 (UTC)
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Wow! what a lot of postings!
Gill
Welcome back! Nice to her from you again.
Keith
I enjoyed your wonderings about what makes NRZAM special. It is a question I have often wondered about. I wish we had a similar site for Swaziland. Don't say I must start one; my talents are too limited.
Colin
Thanks for the feedback. As Jim Reeves said, "A stranger is just a friend you do not know". I was actualy begining to think that my calling Tony Blair "Mittal's errand boy" had annoyed you seeing as he is of Scots origin. I have the greatest of respect for Tony. I was just illustrating the corruptive power of great wealth.
I used to love working with 'John Deere' especialy going to the plowing competitions. There is a place called Chikurubi on the way to Gwelo which is renown for its extremely hard red soils. Case and International didn't do so bad, Ford just scrathed the surface, but our John Deere 730 with a 5 disc drawn (not mounted) plow just dropped in like a hot knife through butter and turned over perfect 12" deep furrows in the rock hard soil. It is always comical to watch the farmers following behind hopping into and out of the furrow. The other companies just packed up and left without even trying.
Linda
Great to hear you finally got the CD. The popcorn must be some sort of promotion.
Ayub
You may well be right about the poor quality of education. However if there had been no colonial occupation there would have been zero school and therefore zero graduates.
When I hear people whinging about the 300 years of colonialism I ask them what was achieved by the black Africans during the previous 3000 years. India built the Taj Mahal; the Egyptians under their Greek pharoahs, the ptolemnies, built the pyramids; the Arabs invented maths; the Chinese built a great wall and invented gunpowder and spaghetti; the Greeks built the Parthenon and numerous tearooms; the Romans built the Coliseum and the Basilica of Saint Peter; the Iraqis built the hanging gardens of Babylon and WMD's (according to Bushy); the Aztecs built pyramids; and so on. But what is in sub-saharan Africa. Zimbabwe ruins? This is not much better than a glorified cattle kraal and may well have been built by an earlier colonizer.
This is not racialisn it is realism.
The only other continents which failed to develop beyond the stone age (pre-colonization) were North America and Australia.
Chris
There is a suprising number of South African companies who are now investing in Zimbabwe mostly by buying shares in existing companies while they are dirt cheap.
This is a tip for you where to invest while things are still cheap. Give it 2 years and we will talk again.
Property prices in South Africa have doubled in the last couple of years and are still rising fast. Everybody is moaning about the hoards of foriegners (Brits, Germans, etc) who are flocking in to buy up property. Some sort of a vote of confidence maybe? The Rand continues to strengthen.
I took a 600 kilometre circular drive through Swaziland today. What a beautifull country and what a lot of development going on there. Probably all on Aid money of course but that makes it all the sweeter. Just think the next time Uncle Sam screws you for taxes, some of it is going to Swaziland and Zambia to built beatifull roads for the wa-benzi to drive on.
Oh well, that's enough stirring for one day!
Johnny
Sorry to hear about the boats!
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Tuesday, June 29, 2004 at 21:31:49 (UTC)
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Ayub
British National Party actually, not that it makes much difference but facts should be accurate if one's opinion is to earn respect.
Ian
Ian Singer [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Livingston, West Lothian, Scotland
Tuesday, June 29, 2004 at 21:22:01 (UTC)
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Tamm,
If you do not have anything positive to say about Zambia then I do wonder what the heck are you doing on this board. Your experiences in Zambia are painful...forget about Zambia...put it behind you.It seems the very word Zambia makes you sick! After all ,you wouldn't want to discuss a toilet would you? What the heck you doing talking crap all the time about such a beautiful country.
By the way BNP..stands for British Nazi Party!!
Ayub Ismail Zumla [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Manchester, United Kingdom
Tuesday, June 29, 2004 at 21:04:13 (UTC)
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I promised myself that I would never write this, but here goes.The "honeymoon" after Independence lasted a lot longer than most people are aware. Only but a few weeks after the initial euphoria, we had law-abiding folks, who never had so much as a traffic ticket, being deported, simply because their child (in a famous incident), pencilled a moustache on Kaunda's face in the newspaper. Then we had the "Do you know who I am?" syndrome.And so on, and so on. I myself was served a deportation notice in '73, simply for refusing credit to a certain person, following laid-down Company procedures. I was fortunate enough to have access to certain people, who had the notice rescinded - I was just lucky. Then we had the theft of plots (mainly in Lsaka's Roma Township) because Kaunda didn't think it was a good idea for (mainly) whites to own these unless they were building on them. Here's a man whose Government literally stole Simon Hobday's farm in Mazabuka, because he played golf in South Africa, and Colin Cunningham's expensive legal library for making apposite observations on the running of the Country. Then there was the Mulungushi village, constructed to house participants in the Non-Aligned Conference ( also the reason for Mulungushi Hall being built). All this for something lasting but a few days!! Who lives in this village now? Bill Cosby spoke about buying expensive sneakers, instead of educating the kids. I think there is a great parallel here. I could go on & on, but what's the point? It is my prediction that Zambia will never be developed, if left to it's own devices. Arthur Wina was Minister of Finance in the early '70s, and while being interviewed on ZTV, was asked,"What would you do if you wakened tomorrow and found all your business interests had disappeared?" His reply was," I would just go back to my village". I think he hit the nail square on the head as to the mindset of even relatively educated Zambians, (he had a B.A. in something). I make no apologies for writing this, as I have become sick and tired of all of the crude polemics lost in the corridors of elementary proposition.
Ken Fernie [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Irvine, California, United States
Tuesday, June 29, 2004 at 20:32:47 (UTC)
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Hello Peeps,
Big favour - I need a picture of Scooby Doo - don't ask why - yes, will tell you. The boyfriend needs one, he is an amateur DJ and would like to go under the handle of : You guessed it. Am a shi...y artist so help please.
Ps: No naughties!!!
Gill Main [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Aberdeen, Scotland
Tuesday, June 29, 2004 at 19:12:07 (UTC)
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For those of you who are interested in the stars and such there is a great site called Astronomy picture of the Day at
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/
They have some really great pictures and commentaries on astronomy.
Another nice site is http://www.Spaceweather.com which gives some great pictures on al sorts of space weather including Sunspots and aurorae (which one never sees in Joeys).
It kind of puts the puny battles of this grain of sand into perspective against the age of the universe which is now estimated at 13.7 billion years.
Go have fun and enjoy life.
Gwyneth Thomas [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Johannesburg, South Africa
Tuesday, June 29, 2004 at 19:11:20 (UTC)
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Well said Ian, the truest reflection we have had yet, also some very true remarks from meneer Tamm I have racial tendencies they were ipregnated into me by the actions of a collection of Zambian racists who imagined that I had acted unjustly in trying to prevent the use of bombs, fire etc Mr Phineas Bulawayo and his band of so called freedom fighters never let up on the threats as they eventually came into power, my wife was taken to the police station for crossing a stop street white line by 1 inch, luckily they had also pulled in the local coloured politicians wife who phoned her husband and got them released, I left a farm of sorts on the Kafue also 3 boats one on the kafue one on lake Tangynika and one on the Zambezi plus numerous other stuff Is there ny wonder i have these tendencies Johnny.
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Tuesday, June 29, 2004 at 18:11:11 (UTC)
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Zumla, pressing and pressing:
Funny isn't it...misappropriation is not an African monoploy!
With such apparent positive inner convictions that Zambia is the place, you really need to either get of the toilet, or move back there. With the exception of Heather, and one or two others, the folks who read this moved out of the country because a> they were forced to or b> they saw the future of the country head seriously downhill. How right they were. Is that a negative view? Most certainly is, but it is also 100% supported by economic data. If the situation in UK is so poor (as you have often described), and the situation in India, Zambia and elsewhere is so much better, go on and do something about it rather that whinge over here. Go back, make a succes, and then crow about it from Lusaka!
You are tempting me to post a current economic status report on the country which I know you will be reluctant to read and accept.
This place, I am reminded constantly, is about Zambia - not Iraq, India, the US etc. So cut the baiting.
Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Tuesday, June 29, 2004 at 17:43:02 (UTC)
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Ayub
Whilst not for one moment denying the existence of racism in Northern Rhodesia I think you are somewhat over egging the pudding, and therefore undermining your propositions, by suggesting that apartheid existed as such. Remember that the ugly system of apartheid was, by definition, an official government policy.
I have just being viewing the Government Staff List for 1962 and it is obvious that non whites were slowly making their way up through the service - there were considerable numbers of District Officers with obviously African names senior to more junior DOs with British names. NR was never a settler country and the British administrators were, in the main, always going to go home after their service. What did happen was that Independence became inevitable much earlier than anticipated. I am sure few would have seriously suggested that it could or should be deferred until an indigenous Civil Service was ready!
Ian
Ian Singer [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Livingston, West Lothian, Scotland
Tuesday, June 29, 2004 at 16:55:06 (UTC)
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My dear Gilly it would take a little more than ambiance to curtail my scotch intake, but after seeing the pics of one of the Hooters I am definitley going to find one I am going to Pontefract tommorow and Liverpool next year is there any at either of these locations?.
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Tuesday, June 29, 2004 at 15:53:55 (UTC)
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Keith,
Sorry mate have to agree with Frank,in Kitwe we did get involved with the so called locals,I always thought that we were all locals.I can remember going to quite a few great weddings and parties,but then maybe Kitwe was a paradise on its own,oh ! I almost forgot,I used to hang around Ndola,Luanshya,Mufulira,Kabwe and Lusaka,and found it much the same,then again we only moved in the groups that we wanted to.No this does not have anything to do with class,some of us have died drunks and others have died millionares,and some of us just keep rolling on.Was I dreaming all those years ago?or was I the only one that really enjoyed my life in Zambia the best way I knew how.Please do not ask me what that was or I would have to write a book,those who know me know what I mean.
Pappy Papier [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Glasgow, United Kingdom
Tuesday, June 29, 2004 at 15:49:34 (UTC)
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Dear Ali
What do I find when I check the Board: you got yourself knocked up, or rather, banged up. Rephrase - were involved in a slight problem of the vehicular variety. Glad to hear you are okay and that the red light is still working and your beastie is back to normal - arfff, arff, arff. Seriously, hope you are fine. Bet it was a male driver that caused it though - oops now I am being sexist!
Johnny and Hooters - not a good mix - when they call last orders our lad would be demanding, as a pensioner, a seasonal pass. Mind you, the ambiance of the place would curtail his scotch intake, nes pas?
Gill Main [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Aberdeen, Scotland
Tuesday, June 29, 2004 at 15:10:11 (UTC)
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Ken
You asked "where did all the money go to?". Similar questions are asked all the time , wherever you live! Last night's headlines indicate that the poor Iraqis are short of billions of dollars ..their oil money given by the UN to occupying force's administraters to rebuild the country...has disappeared! Into thin air! What an example to set for the new Iraqi government. Funny isn't it...misappropriation is not an African monoploy!
Ayub Ismail Zumla [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Manchester, United Kingdom
Tuesday, June 29, 2004 at 10:20:13 (UTC)
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Kieth Binns,
Though I agree with a lot of that which you say about this site, I have to disagree with your comment regarding the exclusion of the local people, I believe that many of us like myself got very involved in our time there with the local people, in a wide range of social and sporting activities, I was very involved in local soccer, the cubs and scouts organisations my wife in the letchwe's one of my closest friends was Michael Mwatalume Sikopo, sorry to disagree but I do feel that though you may be largely correct it is too bog a generalisation to be acceptable.
Frank.
Frank Yoxall [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Woking, Surrey, England, United Kingdom
Tuesday, June 29, 2004 at 09:55:03 (UTC)
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This GNR site is quite fascinating and I have been following all the messages with varied levels of interest for several months now.
I wonder why it holds so much fascination, not just for me, but for the many followers and contributors to its pages. I have lived and worked in quite a few countries and somehow can’t imagine getting caught up in all their gossip, banter, jokes, photographs and political arguments, even if equivalent sites for those other countries actually existed. What is the fascination of having been in Northern Rhodesia / Zambia versus say, India, Fiji, Norway, Poland, Mexico, Scotland or anywhere else?
I have a few theories:
For most of us our time there was so long ago that it is pure nostalgia; the pleasant memories remain and the less pleasant ones fade with time,
For most of us we will never return,
We were mostly a separate race/class/religion/culture/background from the indigenous people, had very little to do with them and now share a bond amongst ourselves which still excludes them.
Maybe we even feel in some way a bond as one would with an adult child who has left home and gone on his own path. We have fed him clothed him, loved him (still love him) and put him on the right path but now he has got his independence and it is up to him if he wants to go astray, be a spend thrift, be dishonest, not plan for the future and go to the (World) bank for loans. We look from afar at that land and hope it will become successful, safe, healthy, prosperous, an example to its neighbours and maybe even a local power.
Any thoughts before I go and search for a similar web page for Indonesia?! But then again, they didn’t play rugby, were colonised by another European power, don’t have a lingua franca which could cause offence to the locals, don’t speak English (on the whole), are Islamic and don’t have the exotic animals of Africa.
Keith Binns [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Tuesday, June 29, 2004 at 06:53:32 (UTC)
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Mr. Zumla,
Mine was a loaded question. there were no science majors graduated. All of the graduates were in the talking classes, Poly. Sci., Law or Edu. This was the pattern from Ghana to Nigeria and beyond. I am not trying to denigrate the efforts of these students, but to point out that for many years the state of the union in any African country was dependent on those horrible whites that brought their expertise to aid the independent unities to adulthood.
The continued assault on the "colonial oppressors" is a laughable excuse for the corrupt and venal rulers of post Colonial Africa that we see in Africa to this day.
Kenneth Kaunda included.
Robert Huntley [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Carmel, California, United States
Tuesday, June 29, 2004 at 04:01:59 (UTC)
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Looking for Laura (nee) Avery ex from Chingola, married and moved to Harare, from there on i do not know,
Tony Bannister [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sydney, Australia
Tuesday, June 29, 2004 at 02:55:36 (UTC)
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Chris, you unrepentent rat you made me chuckle uncontrollably. Can you live with that? P.S. Take your heart pills before you get any deeper into your own mental creation.
Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Tuesday, June 29, 2004 at 01:53:54 (UTC)
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Y'know, reading, instead of deep in the fray you realise how little you or any other individual has a monopoly on the whole picture. The picture (which is a bit different for each viewer) expands by each original snippet of contribution. Each individual person's "unshakeable grasp of many so called truths" stems from his or her viewpoints, experiences and perceptions. One way or another these expand the whole and by widening the body of information provoke new thought (or madness). So actually arguments are not won or lost, they just are. (But that's only my perception heh heh). S'interesting, she said cautiously. Via venting and open expression argument can even have a healing aspect and it's quite a ride. And as Doug of Grewar said, all one has to do to start a different topic is contribute it.
Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Tuesday, June 29, 2004 at 01:48:36 (UTC)
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Oooops sorry Doug, did not mean to sound offensive, but have to reply to agree with your comments. I just must have got carried away a wee bit. We certainly were well looked after by Sir Roy in Southern Rhodesia at that time to the extent we were able to buy four new John Deere tractors from your old company, Smith and Bennets (Salisbury) in the early sixties to complement the wrecks we had. I was only 17 then but well remember what a difference they made. I was not aware that the preferencial rates to afford same was coming down from the earnings in the Copper Belt. Despite the prosperity and good life in the South I moved North and found a much more genuine and classness society in the Valley than anywhere in Southern Rhodesia where I felt an outsider, despite having many friends. Also regarding your maize crop of 25, we hit 17, early sixties, in Mashonaland and this was considered to be quite a feat, the rains came early. Sad to say I am as yet a Haggis harvesterand the price is 60p per lb. I don't think this would have raised many eyebrows on the floor so many years ago. Regards Colin. PS Koos, sadly departed, was not my granny , just a good kinsman.
Colin Munro [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Oban, Scotland, United Kingdom
Tuesday, June 29, 2004 at 01:27:30 (UTC)
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PK Magee, innocently:
Actually, the British contingent might consider an impromptu get together in Birmingham or Nottingham and someone might give Johnny a lift down and in the course of getting together he too could be introduced to a Hooters - to Hooters, to a Hooter or two?
You might like to order the chicken there - the breast is tender, the legs just fall apart, and the stuffing is......
Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Tuesday, June 29, 2004 at 00:57:09 (UTC)
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Surely class relates to wealth in this materialistic world so how can the powers of the day be accused of leaving no middle class in Northern Rhodesia, regardless of race? Wealth takes some considerable time and expertise to accululate, certainly longer than the few years that independence was envisioned in the sixties. It would be going round in circles to appropriate blame for the reasons of the imbalance but would not answer the question. The splendid, hard-working, middle class citizens of Uganda did not get much of a chance to remain there to enhance the prosperity of the country in which many were born! Regarding the removal of the toilet seat from LM, I also recall a certain M. Jamieson (Scot) returning to collect the dustbin he had inadvert
enly left behind in Tete.
Colin Munro [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Oban, Scotland, United Kingdom
Tuesday, June 29, 2004 at 00:25:44 (UTC)
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Tina...........too witty tooo troooo
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Tuesday, June 29, 2004 at 00:19:43 (UTC)
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Yes, lovely Saturn stuff Peter. Almost better than Hooters? Well, do you think so? Owls are rather sweet.
Actually, the British contingent might consider an impromptu get together in Birmingham or Nottingham and someone might give Johnny a lift down and in the course of getting together he too could be introduced to a Hooters - to Hooters, to a Hooter or two? I'm not really sure how one should say that correctly. It's a most enjoyable gimmick for the lads. Nothing racy, Johnny, it would just be very easy on your eyes. Here we have about five in a 30 mile radius and it's another mainstream restaurant choice like "Fridays" or "Applebees" etc. (From a female perspective the wait staff is sweet with a good sense of humour and I think they earn every cent they make and I quite like the chicken wings).
Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Monday, June 28, 2004 at 23:50:14 (UTC)
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Ayub:
Go to http://housecall.trendmicro.com
Follow the instructions on the site to download (free) the tool to clean any virus from your computer. It is constantly updated and is a pretty reliable tool.
Also look on this same site on the the virus encyclopaedia link to see how to clean up this particular virus manually if you want to handle it specifically.
Hope it helps :)
Doug Grewar:
Thank you, thank you!! What a lovely surprise to come home from pumping iron until I felt like I could sing Hueeeeey all by myself to find your prezzie waiting for me. I am now sitting listening to the beautiful music of West Nkosi playing, "Help Me Make It Through The Night." I could have used a similar song.."Help Me Make It Through This Set!" about an hour ago... grin.
I'm curious about the packet of popcorn that was included with the CD? Was that made from mealies grown in your own back garden? Or was that my bonus for being able to get all the tape and bubble wrap off the CD. Almost gave myself a hernia. Ha! Ha!
Thanks, again. You are a super star!
Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Monday, June 28, 2004 at 22:08:33 (UTC)
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Here we go again! Fix the blame and to hell with the problem. To read some of the latest postings, one would think that Zambia had just transitioned from the Advisory to the Executive. It's now forty years almost and still it's all the Bwana's fault.Yes, it could be said that there was a dearth of educational facilities for the indigini. Anyone ever heard of the Evelyn Hone College for Further Education? One would reasonably expect that there would have been a tremendous leap twixt then and now, but what? As far as being re-colonized by the World Bank and the IMF, for Christ's sake, give me a break. There are only two ingredients to a loan. 1. You have to get it - 2. You have to pay it back. Simple economics. Nearly every Third-World country (among others, I admit) have either defaulted or had their "Loans" (in some cases interpreted as gifts for that new tribe called "The Wa-Benzi"} wiped away. How many times did Kaunda visit his foreign pals with his copper begging-bowl?
To paraphrase Peter Paul and Mary, "Where did all the money go?" Pleeez, let's get back on track and treat this site with the reasons for which it was intended. Enough of the racial crap. BTW, the Scots are pale blue,
the Irish lean towards the pinkish. I myself am now a delicate ecru - thank you California!
Ken Fernie [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Irvine, California, United States
Monday, June 28, 2004 at 21:53:43 (UTC)
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Zumla, real harshly:
Tamm,
I think most on this board know where you coming from! You postings remind me so much of the literature produced by the BNP here in the UK!
Mmmm, can you show me an example? I guess I have never seen any BNP literature.
Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Monday, June 28, 2004 at 21:44:36 (UTC)
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Glen..talking about the internet..anyone know of a tool which would remove this Trojan virus:
TRJ/Downloader.GK
It is going around at the moment and slows down your PC.
I have tried a lot of Anti-virus scans but to no avail.
Ayub Ismail Zumla [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Manchester, United Kingdom
Monday, June 28, 2004 at 20:43:08 (UTC)
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Ayub, Is NATIONALIST and INTERNATIONALIST the the same as NET and INTERNET, COURSE and INTER------.
Never mind.
Glen Drake [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
California, United States
Monday, June 28, 2004 at 20:37:30 (UTC)
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Robert
I see the point you are trying to make. Unfortunately in Zambia the educational system was heavily biased against the indigenous population. I am not so sure as to the make-up of the professions of the 100 Graduates..my guess is that most would be in the Social Sciences. I will however look the figures up and let you know.
According to Anthony Martin in his book "Minding their own Business"(it is a good read)
"..the most damaging criticism of all against the colonial and federal governments of Northern Rhodesia, despite its possession of the richest economy in Africa north of the Limpopo, found itself at independence with a smaller number of educated Africans in relation to the population than virtually any other of Britain's African colonies. In 1963 there were fewer than 100 Zambian university graduates and fewer than 1000 secondary school graduates- the figure attained in Ghana in 1943, in Uganda in 1955.." He goes on..."..the education of the Africans was deliberately held back under the Federal system which split education on racial lines...starved of funds". He also adds that given the nature of the country's economy, enhanced opportunities for Industrial training were manifold..but that "it was actually illegal for an African to be apprenticed to a trade until 1959, and the informal colour bar restricted the acquisition by Africans of Industrail skills right up to the end of the Federation"
So my guess is that very few African were graduates in Engineering.
Ayub Ismail Zumla [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Manchester, United Kingdom
Monday, June 28, 2004 at 20:37:30 (UTC)
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Glen...not a nationalist but an INTERNATIONALIST!
Ayub Ismail Zumla [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Manchester, United Kingdom
Monday, June 28, 2004 at 19:59:25 (UTC)
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Tamm,
I think most on this board know where you coming from! You postings remind me so much of the literature produced by the BNP here in the UK!
Glen!Glen! Glen!..Wherefore art though coming from?
For thy will be the Kingdom wherein thy will not want anyone to protest too much...suggest you try telling that to all those who suffer from oppression..be it in Zimbabwe or China or anywhere else. I guess according to you..they should stop protesting too much! Strange logic!
Ayub Ismail Zumla [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Manchester, United Kingdom
Monday, June 28, 2004 at 19:56:37 (UTC)
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Ayub - how's this for a prod?
In your last posting Genes, God and Glen all had capital letters - Good!
I'm also glad that you used a capital letter for the White patient, however, you didn't mention his/her nationality. H-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m . . . . . . . when you mentioned the Indian Doctor (both starting with capital letters) you omitted mentioning his colour.
That's it! I apologize . . . . . . . . . . . .
You're a NATIONALIST not a RACIST!
Glen Drake [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
California, United States
Monday, June 28, 2004 at 19:51:23 (UTC)
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Mr. Kumla,
My, you have stepped on a hornets nest.
You wrote "At the time of independence Zambia had less than 100 indigenous Graduates! That shows the bugger all was done to educate the local populous! (sic)With an Apartheid-type system in operation in Zambia, lets face it.. Britain could have ruled another hundred years and there would have been no more than 300 graduates of local origin! "
You are quite right, the local populace were left behind in the educational race. But in perspective, Bologna was the first university established in Europe, closely followed by Oxford and Cambridge in the 13th century. Up until 1945 and later and after almost 800 years since their founding, there were not too many working class graduates from either place. The glacial change in educational opportunity, meant that just about ninety percent of British children were weeded out by the old 11 plus exams and dumped on the labour market as young as 14. If the politicians at home cared so little of their own, what makes you think that they would rush to emancipate native populations?
I have not visited Zambia since the day I left in 1963. I did try to cross the border at the Victoria Falls in 1966, but was declared a "Prohibited Visitor." I had criticised Kenneth Kaunda in a radio program that I ran in Los Angeles. From what I have seen on this site and from friends, I would submit that there is little that is better in the country today than in 1963.
One question that I have to ask you. Of the one hundred graduates at independence, how many were in the engineering and sciences?
Robert Huntley [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Carmel, California, United States
Monday, June 28, 2004 at 19:29:07 (UTC)
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Ali, Will Knott, Chris, Johnny
Thanks for all the explanations re: NZ/OZ 'jet lag'.
Perhaps our Johnny can come up with some other excuse for the shellacking that the Poms suffered at the hands of the Waltzing Matildas on Saturday!
Johnny, please get Pamela to give Johnny Wilks a tummy rub & get him back into the team pronto!!
best regards
Bill Hunt [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Widenham, Natal, South Africa
Monday, June 28, 2004 at 19:13:48 (UTC)
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Ayub -
"Protest too much" comes from Hamlet by William Shakespeare; the Queen speaking: "The lady doth protest too much, methinks." (Note: people do not usually use the word "methinks" when they are speaking English today.) To "protest too much" is to insist so passionately about something not being true that people suspect the opposite of what you are saying. Example: "Do you think he is telling the truth?" Answer: "I think he protests too much."
Glen Drake [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
California, United States
Monday, June 28, 2004 at 19:13:22 (UTC)
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Zumla, in cold blood:
Glen,
I do object strogly about your suggestion that my comment was "racist". Racism is a very in-depth thing...if it is embedded in you... unfortunately it will remain there forever. Fortunately my Genes are devoid of it and thank God there are many others with the same Genes too! You see Glen..I can call Mugabe a lot of names..tyrant,bigot,racist,tribalist etc etc..but one thing I would not curse him by is the colour of his skin. That is not me! Just last week a Doctor friend of mine working in the Casualty Department af his local hospital got a shock when a White patient refused to be treated by him because he was Indian! My friend was upset and I told him the same thing.."it is embedded in some people! You cannot change them..either ignore them or confront them..if it happens again next time give the idiot a blood transfusion..preferably from an Indian Donor"!!
Sheesh, the above posting really does show up your genes.
Funny thing this race thing - Zumla starts a thread accusing the Brits of not doing enough, Drake responds calmly and rationally, Zumla has his back to the wall and comes back throwing the race card. This guy, talking about Indian Blood Transfusions, claims he has no racist genes?
Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Monday, June 28, 2004 at 18:26:04 (UTC)
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Glen,
I do object strogly about your suggestion that my comment was "racist". Racism is a very in-depth thing...if it is embedded in you... unfortunately it will remain there forever. Fortunately my Genes are devoid of it and thank God there are many others with the same Genes too! You see Glen..I can call Mugabe a lot of names..tyrant,bigot,racist,tribalist etc etc..but one thing I would not curse him by is the colour of his skin. That is not me! Just last week a Doctor friend of mine working in the Casualty Department af his local hospital got a shock when a White patient refused to be treated by him because he was Indian! My friend was upset and I told him the same thing.."it is embedded in some people! You cannot change them..either ignore them or confront them..if it happens again next time give the idiot a blood transfusion..preferably from an Indian Donor"!!
Ayub Ismail Zumla [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Manchester, United Kingdom
Monday, June 28, 2004 at 17:05:38 (UTC)
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I don't think I mentioned anything about Hindu/Muslim/Sikh deaths in the carnage. I was talking about the merits of leaving a local civil service. I thought even the most uneducated would subscribe to the notion that the existence of such a service would help any newly independent country. At the time of independence Zambia had less than 100 indigenous Graduates! That shows the bugger all was done to educate the local populous! With an Apartheid-type system in operation in Zambia, lets face it.. Britain could have ruled another hundred years and there would have been no more than 300 graduates of local origin! Was it not the belief of the Colonials that "educating the local would be dangerous for us ..in the long-run"! This dictum was applied to slaves in America for years!
As to the legacy of partition..there are many viewpoints on the causes of it. Suffice here to say that in the long run those Muslims who wanted a separate State and who now live in Pakistan(and Bangladesh) seem vindicated, especially after the last Indian Government's role in inciting violence in Gujarat recently. The Government being the BJP Hindu Nationalist one. Lets also remember that religious strife is not only a Third World problem...we have had it in Ireland for years.
Human nature is such that a people would rather be ruled by a tyrant of their own pedigree .. than by someone from outside.Rightly or wrongly, that is how people's perceptions are! You can go into a country and attempt to liberate/colonise it but but the line between Liberation,Occupation and Oppression is an extremely thin one! People's perceptions change very quickly!
By the way..I thought Thirld World countries are already re-colonised...World bank, IMF, Foreign policies of Western Governments??? Their Economic policies are dictated by them.So whats the problem anyway!!
Ayub Ismail Zumla [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Manchester, United Kingdom
Monday, June 28, 2004 at 16:32:43 (UTC)
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Ayub, Ayub, Ayub – so much of what you say is predicated on the same worn out, two hundred year old excuses used by Afro-Americans who live in a country where, despite all the opportunities afforded them, only a handful make millions a year, mainly through their prowess in sport. Sit down and ask yourself whether the legacy that Mugabe is going to leave behind is going to be better or worse than that left behind by “Colonialism” and/or Ian Smith? You gratuitously admit that “especially in Zambia” British left in a peaceful manner, and you even admit to them having left an infrastructure in place. You then place blame on the British for not having left an African middle Class or an educated African Civil service in place.
But hang on Ayub . . . . . . . . on Friday, May 28, 2004 at 19:15:11 (UTC) didn’t you say that :
“During the rule of KK in Zambia let us not forget that his closest political and economic adivsors were not indeginous Zambians! Try looking up who they were...you will be surprised! “ (I even left your spelling mistakes in place see, just in case you were to accuse me of misquoting you!)
Sounds to me like another broken record playback of the same racist comment you made about : “The point I have always been making is that there are educated Black Zambians who will find it offensive when addressed in Chilapalapa.” - Thursday, May 06, 2004 at 20:39:36 (UTC)
Just get down to the basic fact Ayub – the British had no option – what they did was to hand the country back to the rightful owners who were in the majority. What buggered up the deal, as it has (or is destined to be) in virtually every instance is that the departing Colonials didn’t take with them the REAL greed. Greed’s closest relative is Corruption – tons of it still available here on Wall Street in New York and in the hallways of the Capitol building in D.C. Combine the ruthless greed of a few, with empty promises to poor uneducated people, and the result is ………. Zimbabwe. Maybe Zambia? Tanzania? Angolia? Nigeria? Somalia? (Boring, boring . . . . . the list goes on and on).
So if the British “failed dismally” is it because they failed to change the inherent culture of a nation?
If in fact the latter is true, the last thing Zimbabwe needs is that stupid toilet seat taken aboard that plane leaving LM, don’t you agree?
So now, while I ponder . . . “The question of whether Colonialism was good or bad is dependent upon when and at what time one asks that question. It also depends on what legacy the Colonial power left behind.” And use as examples, Canada and Australia – and yes, maybe even as per your suggestion, India, I’ll try and figure out why Africa is such a problem.
Finally – thanks for the prod – much appreciated.
Glen Drake [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
California, United States
Monday, June 28, 2004 at 16:02:32 (UTC)
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Mr. Zumla,
You wrote,
"The most positive aspect of British rule was the relative peaceful nature of it and the infrastructure they left behind. Where the British failed dismally (especially in Zambia) was that they left no African middle Class behind or an educated African Civil service. This was due to their obsession of holding on to an Apartheid style of rule till the very end. Contrast this with India..where a functional local civil service helped the country overcome some of its problems.
As to the mortality rates..these are now governed by HIV/Aids and have nothing to do with Colonialism! "
The partition of India was not done on the wishes of the Colonial office but at the insistance of Muhammed Ali Jinnah, the Muslim leader. It was bitterly opposed by
Ghandi. I cannot agree that the Indian Civil Service did anything in the way of helping the country in its problems. The carnage wreaked by both Muslim and Hindu was on a scale, that even today, dwarfs most civil conflicts.
Let's see, "India had a middle class but Zambia didn't."
India had been a trading nation for millenia. Clive and the British had a longer time frame to achieve this, something like two hundred or more years. Zambia had had no commercial intercourse with others; in the early part of the twentieth century ninety- nine per cent of the population had never seen a wheel and there was no written language. I wish someone would give credit to the White Fathers of Abercorn for their work in recording the Bantu languages of Zambia.
In sub- Saharan Africa, one cannot dispute that fact that starvation, ethnic cleansing and genocide are right up there with HIV/Aids in depleting the population.
I am not sure who said it, but the old aphorism holds. The amount of democracy one craves for, is in inverse proportion to the grain available to eat. The general populace of Zimbabwe may well agree it.
Robert Huntley [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Carmel, California, United States
Monday, June 28, 2004 at 15:47:45 (UTC)
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Peter D..........those shots of Saturn are incredible.......thanks for the link.
Johnny.....thanks......good thinking about the Elephant
juice !!
Rachel M.......Thank you for your touching email.
Ali
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Monday, June 28, 2004 at 15:33:52 (UTC)
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If I remember correctly after the hand over of power to the Indian goverment the one you claim was trained up a little for the job, resulted in 13 million deaths in the first 3 months of the change over.
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Monday, June 28, 2004 at 14:47:59 (UTC)
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Pleased to hear your ok and no damage to you, only the car, an excellent tonic for nerves is a good intake of the elephants favourite tipple, Marula Juice which you are familiar with, Prost and love Johnny.x
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Monday, June 28, 2004 at 14:37:25 (UTC)
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Hi all,
the news is I had a small prang ,apart from my nerves I am fine..........but! alas my little red beastie is a little crushed, nothing too bad just a light missing and the right panel a little squashed in.....still is drivable so it won't be long before it is back to normal!........cest' la vie
Thanks Tina and Linda for your warm thoughts.........Ali
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Monday, June 28, 2004 at 13:42:42 (UTC)
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The question of whether Colonialism was good or bad is dependent upon when and at what time one asks that question. It also depends on what legacy the Colonial power left behind. Try telling an Algerian that Colonialism was good for his country. Bet you...you would get a thump in between your thighs! The French left with a lot of blood on their hands! The Potuguese also spilt a lot of blood and raped their African Colonies to the end; even fleeing with office equipment and chairs!!. In one instance even a toilet seat was ripped out and taken on board a plane departing LM!!.The most positive aspect of British rule was the relative peaceful nature of it and the infrastructure they left behind. Where the British failed dismally (especially in Zambia) was that they left no African middle Class behind or an educated African Civil service. This was due to their obsession of holding on to an Apartheid style of rule till the very end. Contrast this with India..where a functional local civil service helped the country overcome some of its problems.
As to the mortality rates..these are now governed by HIV/Aids and have nothing to do with Colonialism!
If you want to expand the debate on the benefits of one particular rule over another.. one can argue that Saddam Hussein would have been better for his Nation than what exists today..after all, there was an education system,jobs were there....ask the Iraqis themselves and I can assure you that many would say that they were better off under Saddam. Ask them in a few years time and you may get a different answer.The debate about being better off under one rule or another can therefore go on and on....times have changed..and we have to move on also!
Ayub Ismail Zumla [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Manchester, United Kingdom
Monday, June 28, 2004 at 12:18:28 (UTC)
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Northeners...
Take a peek at this - the Saturn Cassini mission - almost as good as Hooters :)....
http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/
Peter Dielissen [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
Monday, June 28, 2004 at 08:50:08 (UTC)
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Robert how any one could argue to the contrary about the benefits of colonalisation in Africa I dont know, I saw the improvements to the living standards over the years and it was not until the politicians stepped in with there promises of a new world if they won the elections that the comradie between african and colonisers began to sour, I can remember my faithful servant and friend Raphel saying to me when the price of mealie meal had risen from around 50 ngwee a bag to 9 kwacha when is this independence going to end Bwana, I myself can lay claim to educating a lot of my african workers one in particular who was new from the bush and could not speak a word of English to sing( I do like to be besides the sea side} oh happy days, and I hope he is still singing it. Johnny.
PS I wonder how a referendum on should all the whites that left Zambia between 64 and 80 return again if any one coul'd arrange one I will take all the bets.
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Monday, June 28, 2004 at 08:09:04 (UTC)
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When I emmigrated to the United States from Northern Rhodesia in 1963 I enrolled at the University of California at Los Angeles. I signed up for a class in African Affairs.
The professor, a liberal type, set the essay to be an examination of, "Was Colonialism good for Africa or not." I remember spending a great deal of time on the subject and came up with the astonishing answer, "Yes, on the whole it was." He thought I was some rogue racist and marked me accordingly. Later, when I had to remind him that his use of place and tribal names was all wrong and his pronunciation was just pain awful, he came to the conclusion that maybe, just maybe I knew of that which I spoke. We spent some time together speaking of the Rhodesias and Nyasaland and he eventually agreed, that the incorruptiblity of the civil service, in British controlled territories was an enviable trait.
No matter what some on this board may believe, the life expectancy of the Bantu population , south of the the Congo, was greater from 1924 to 1980, than it is now.
I wonder if the people of Zimbabwe sometimes don't yearn for the safety net of paternalistic colonialism?
Robert Huntley [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Carmel, California, United States
Monday, June 28, 2004 at 01:47:24 (UTC)
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Ali was just in a car wreck. Physical damage to her is - very shaken and blinding headache. The car didn't do as well. Friend is helping and she is always an optomist but she could use moral support.
Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Monday, June 28, 2004 at 01:24:39 (UTC)
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Mr Knotty ............yes we are a bit jetlagged over here, but in a delightful way............
Johnny..........yes I love being the key to any situation.......... : )
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Sunday, June 27, 2004 at 18:19:37 (UTC)
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Ali maybe you are the KEY to the situation? X Johnny.
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Sunday, June 27, 2004 at 17:14:04 (UTC)
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Ali and Chris,
Of course you can get jetlag flying from N.Z to Oz.... depends on where you go to and whether you have your eyes open or not. In Jan when we flew Auckland to Sydney, I just slept. Its comparable to trips my Yvette makes. Thurs Ottawa to Vancouver..... 5.5 hrs then back Friday....4.25 hrs with the jetstream. It takes 5.5hrs Ottawa to London. But 7.5 back here.
As for Perth, the sandgropers - are they not jet lagged all the time anyway.?
Bill
William Knott [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Sunday, June 27, 2004 at 15:53:29 (UTC)
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This Eve in Slumber a Vision came to me....... He was the embodiment of Some I have Known. Jaarpie of Accent. Young and Wonderfully Wrought and Comely(?) ......but oops that was another Vision and I digess... Attend Thou but a moment more! It is the NEXT Vision whereof I must Speak Here.
The Supreme Being appeared to me in a Dream and She said: "I have read of you as the PK and I am much moved!" "Take 'Immodium' Great One", I said. "It usually stops those sprints to the littlest room on the first dose." But she continued: "Henceforth, Your Name shall not be Peace Keeper - of initials P and K but shall be Peace Maker Supreme - of initials P, M and S".
"...But, SB, there were only three Supremes on earth I said. It could be worse than adding another Spice Girl". And verily she answered: "Pasop and Listen! Henceforth when Thou Encountereth Stirring thou shalt say: 'Peace on You', and pass by! "And so I do!" quoth I! And Lo! That Vision Vanished. But (miracle of miracles!) the Other Vision stayed around and I smiled in slumber and my husband dug me sharply in the ribs.
Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Sunday, June 27, 2004 at 15:52:26 (UTC)
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mr Tamm
no I am not related to any Richard Key..........Key is not my maiden name..but my married name.....The name Key is English, and I don't have any English blood flowing through my veins.........
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Sunday, June 27, 2004 at 09:59:47 (UTC)
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Bill HuntYES you get jetlag when you travel from NZ to Australia !!
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Sunday, June 27, 2004 at 09:53:06 (UTC)
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Chris
I know why PK's come so readily to mind for you. Your logic is in the toilet again. You're not making any sense boet in all the stuff you are accusing me of. But I've noticed you do that. When you're not winning a hand you just fuzz the cards and hope no one sees it. But I don't mind. I've had a lovely debate and now I honestly don't give a Tamm. Have another drink and enjoy the sunset.
Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Sunday, June 27, 2004 at 03:20:02 (UTC)
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Doug
oukies in Zambo prefer an office to the farm. Exactly ou boeta, this is part of the problem. Even if you give them a farm and/or they take it anyway, they have a habit of seriously underutilising the acreage, at the expense of the peoples sadza supplies.
PK Magee
Louder, and more positive? Struth, that is a bit of a turnaround from the earlier liberal standpoint you subscribe to. But then liberals have a habit of changing their minds. The yanks have a great term for it - flip flopping!
BTW, PK stands for Peace Keeper
Bill H/Bill Knot
Seeing that nobody else picked up on this, may I? Auckland is 2 hours ahead of Sydney, and 5 ahead of Ms Sleutel in Perth. Jet Lag? Yup.
Talking of Ms Sleutel, are you related to Richard Key aka Sleutel by any chance? (We messed together in Lusaka) (Messed means living in the same single quarters for those who may not be familiar with that term)
Fiona
When was anyone here negative in the past? I am not thee won!
Catherine
Who are the angry old men you refer to? People who have lived in Mongu too long? Have a great trip, and leave your American Express Card at home
Lekker naweek alle - need to top up the batteries after a serious rugby disrupted night
Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Sunday, June 27, 2004 at 00:59:03 (UTC)
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Fifi - so good to hear from you!
Cathrine!!!! Quit the simpering about being called young. If you haven't met her folks she is quite lovely. I may think twice about being seen in public with her again when she returns to Dallas for the second time later this year. Just kidding of course honey. Can't wait to see you again and get up to a little mischief. Enjoy your trip.
Chris - Of course there is also a missile called the Peacemaker. Let me consider your words. Maybe those teachers of mine didn't get through. Maybe I don't stand firm enough or fight for my perceptions of right enough or have distinct enough mores or argue my positions firmly enough. I know. I will resolve to be louder and more positive. Why is everyone on the GNR suddenly running away? Actually there are many stages in any democratic process and the needs shift constantly while the ideals remains the same. One of those needs is to ALLOW the opinions of others. Moving on to the comfort and aesthetics bit........
So Glen - my incisive and sometimes derisive "Moving Finger", the first sentence of your reply makes logical sense - Being truly democratic is posting all opinions. Among all the other responses these will include postings on when posted opinions are most enjoyable and when they are uncomfortable and people would rather the train of thought didn't continue. Ahhh democracy in action.
The following only has something to do with Africa if you count Libya, but it should give a few people a giggle. I'm very grateful to the U.S.A. and its people for its welcome to me and the life I have here but I feel a lot safer posting on the GNR than if I were to stand up in a crowd in Texas and yell: "George Bush wears ladies underwear" or were to share with the wrong bunch the true fact that my first fixed wing flying instructor later spent a stint as personal pilot to Muammar Gaddhafi in the years before he got a bit notorious.
The very Scottish Dave Crighton Young had been a Hunter QFI in Bahrain. He returned to England and was flying a desk in London. He wandered out to Biggin Hill Civil Airfield where he instructed several students through PPL on tail draggers. We became great mates. He was then picked as R.A.F. liaison on the emerging Hawker-Siddley Hawk trainer and hung out at Dunstable or is it Dunsfold - I think Dunstable, anyway the test pilot facility. Anyway, there he was for a while with the test pilots before taking the agile little trainer to North Wales and being involved in introducing it into the R.A.F. proper. After he left the R.A.F. he returned to the Middle Eastern contacts he had made and flew Lears and the like first for Gaddhafi and then for various ruling families in the Emirates and Saudi. In fact when still in Lusaka I nearly visited him in Libya (via Rome) on Autair Helicopters (Africa)'s great standby travel perk but ended up going to my aunt in Brazil instead. He pointed out in later years that when the kuffuffle with Gaddhafi happened in the 80's that of course from that ruler's point of view The Gulf of Sidra would be seena as his backyard and inviolate. I held my peace but inwardly pondered different viewpoints and freedom of speech.
Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Saturday, June 26, 2004 at 20:49:15 (UTC)
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Bill Hunt,
It is a 3 hr trip from Auckland to Oz , in the same time zone , so jetlag is the last thing you could worry about.
More to the point would be going from Gods country to Oz.
Ooops.
Or vice versa?
One of them can play rugby.
Bill
William Knott [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Saturday, June 26, 2004 at 20:14:05 (UTC)
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Barbara - without medical assistance (particularly from the U.S.A.) there'll be no "local population" in Zambia and/or Zimbabwe 99 years time. I would think that it whomever throws them a straw to grab on whilst they're drowning deserves more than a pat on the back. Don't you? Whether it be 99 years or more of cultural change by teaching indigenous peoples how to live more productive lives, or whether it be the supply of drugs against diseases which decimate their ranks - the right of "free-hold" means "belonging".
In modern times, if we leave it to Nature, we find an interesting result. Nature has a wonderful check on nations who don't practise birth-control - it steps in and exercises death control. Of course, anyone who doesn't believe in the survival of the fittest is welcome to spend a day or two in the slums of Manila or Bombay. Sadder than a supposed angry old man that harbours grudges and prejudices for 30 years is the dismal waste of lives and cultures by leaders who have no respect for their nations and who, through sheer stupidity, try and turn back the clock to pre-colonial times.
Glen Drake [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
California, United States
Saturday, June 26, 2004 at 19:00:46 (UTC)
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On the subject of farmers from the south relocating to Zambia, I was under the impression that they were being given a 99 year lease on the proviso that they trained the locals on farming methods and that once the 99 year lease was over the land would be returned to the local population who would then be able to farm the land with the right farming knowledge. I had read about this a few years ago from a reliable source. Is this not now the case?
Barbara Doherty [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Cardiff, Wales, United Kingdom
Saturday, June 26, 2004 at 18:19:25 (UTC)
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Tina M (peacemaker??) professes:
Is the moral that true democracy is hard until you relax and just let it be?
No way - one has to work very hard at it. The "relax and just let it be" is a mere liberal/socialist position, which relies on a Politbureau somewhere to come to your rescue every time someone shouts boo.
Where were you at school when your teachers used to chastise you for not being honest, hardworking, and standing up for what you believe in? There is no free lunch.
Humph!
PS- Ms. Sleutel, there is no way you will get the title deeds to that plaas in Eloff Straat with that kind of effort.
Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Saturday, June 26, 2004 at 18:13:34 (UTC)
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Boks 53 - Wales 18. Things are looking up!
Bill
So Koos was your wifes uncle! Small world! I had a run in with Koos when I first moved to Mufulira, so there was no love lost. I am sorry to hear he has passed away. Maybe if he was still around we could have reconciled. After all, we are all getting somewhat mellower in our old age.
Best regards - Doug
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Saturday, June 26, 2004 at 18:06:34 (UTC)
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Time for an apology from this old girl; I seem to have woken up a little grumpy this morning and took it out on you!
Doug, you were kind to hurl only a nicely ripe tomato in my direction, for which I thank you. And being called 'young lady' by you has made my day.
Obviously this board has filled a need in my life as I seem to check it a couple of times most days. And if it weren't for the beloved founders and keepers of the board I wouldn't have found the old pals of my youth, nor made the new ones that I've been lucky enough to meet in person over the last few months.
Now let me stir the pot a little if I may!
As much as I look back on the amazing good fortune I had in growing up in the most wonderful place on earth with the most fascinating people, I think I am now more interested in the new Zambia (and Africa) which is what we've got. Yes, I know I don't live there anymore (not yet, anyway) but I think my opinions still count.
The past we can't regain but the present is real and a successful future is what we hope for. For this reason I love it when Heather and others 'on the ground' tell us about the positive things that are happening and when I hear that Zambia is now a recognized tourist destination of choice.
I can only hope that Zambia is forging ahead along new paths, trying new ways to help its people prosper, and honoring the heritage of its physical beauty, the wildlife and the resilience of all its inhabitants. I certainly look forward to hearing how the country's story unfolds. And yes, I'll tell you all about it - at least how I saw it - when I return later in August.
Thanks everyone! Cathy
Cathrine Nelson [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Washington, DC, United States
Saturday, June 26, 2004 at 17:57:29 (UTC)
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Can anyone of the GNR's group of seasoned travellers tell me if there is any danger of suffering 'jet lag' after an air trip from New Zealand to Australia?
thanks
Bill Hunt [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Widenham, Natal, South Africa
Saturday, June 26, 2004 at 17:31:07 (UTC)
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Tina - Chris Tamm, whether in an informative or reactionary mode is a contributor. It really has nothing to do with politics, anger (Cathrine), religion or anything else. It is a point of view, period.
One day (soon I hope) people who paricipate in GNR will appreciate that "stirring the pot" is part of making sure that the meal is cooked through evenly.
And Doug, you rascal you - don't (even in a foreign language) spoil my fun prodding Chris, Ayub, Tina and even Cathrine, the latter whose January 2004 write up of her visit to Livingstone in 2003 left me home-sick and ready to board a plane and see it through her eyes.
Catherine - Bon Voyage and bring back maningi pics!
Glen Drake [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
California, United States
Saturday, June 26, 2004 at 17:09:26 (UTC)
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Tina
Well said my friend. I have to say it is good to see the positive side of Mr Tamm and I have enjoyed his last few postings. The GNR must be having a positive effect on him. Maybe even he can see a postive side of Zambia. Chris is obviously a "thinker" so it's good to see this thinking being used to good effect instead of the negative we have seen in the past.
Catherine
I hope you have a great trip to Zambia and I'm sure we will all be very interested to hear about your experience.
Moira
Shuddup! P.S. Long time no hear. Sorry I haven't been on MSN for a long while. Looking forward to hearing from you again soon
Fiona Gayther (née Ferguson) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tytherington, Gloucestershire, United Kingdom
Saturday, June 26, 2004 at 17:06:22 (UTC)
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Doug Grewar
Are you trying to initiate a new Boer War?!!
Koos Munro (who has passed on) was my wife's uncle!!
I hope you have some complimentary things to relate about him!!
Bill Hunt [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Widenham, Natal, South Africa
Saturday, June 26, 2004 at 17:06:13 (UTC)
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Doug
We're allowed to be a democracy by a politburo that hears out the members and makes ultimate policy decisions. You can even express your considered opinion by repeatedly screaming "off with his head" as I have with past Tamm postings without being booted yourself.
So Cathrine's is a legitimate expressed opinion and the readership sifts it's validity to each reader. While not being ready (much he cares eh?) to give him one of Lusaka Girls' School Miss Gross's gold stars the informative thinking Chris Tamm unlike the reactionary one is enjoyable. I'm sure true of us all!!
Is the moral that true democracy is hard until you relax and just let it be?
Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Saturday, June 26, 2004 at 16:37:51 (UTC)
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Cathy
In a democracy we are all entitled to our opinions.
This board is about the past just as much as the present. Personally I get enough of 'the new Africa' each and every day.
If you think certain people dominate the board you must become more active and make more contributions. I am sure we would all be interested in hearing about about your adventures, progress and perceptions (bad as well as good) on your upcoming trip to Zambia.
Don't be an angry young lady! Enjoy your visit!
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Saturday, June 26, 2004 at 13:15:57 (UTC)
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YEEEEEEEE HA! The Ozzies SLAUGHTERED the Poms in the rugby!
Go Aussies! Go!
Moira Steevens [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Brisbane, Australia
Saturday, June 26, 2004 at 12:04:22 (UTC)
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How sad it is that when the angry old men, bearing grudges and prejudices from 30 year ago or more, get going on this board the rest of us sit on our hands and let them dominate. I'm really, really tired of it!
So, before the rotten tomatoes come flying my way, I feel compelled to give you wonderful news. Four weeks today I will be starting my journey to Zambia where I shall spend 10 days going to places like Livingstone and back 'home' to Mongu and Barotseland. Of course I shall see it in comparison with how I knew it 33 years ago BUT I know that more important will be how I see it as it is today. After my brief visit to Livingstone last Christmas, I know that what is now will quickly become more significant than what was then. There are now a couple of generations of people for whom 1964 and before is ancient history.
It will be winter so the landscape will present itself in all those wonderful muted khaki tones and greys. I can't believe my luck and before I discovered this board a few years ago I would not have dreamed this trip was possible. Best of all is that I am going with an old friend from Livingstone, thanks to GNR!
In anticipation and great excitement, Cathy
Cathrine Nelson [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Washington, DC, United States
Saturday, June 26, 2004 at 11:31:28 (UTC)
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Chris
I think Ali has beaten me to it! You had better send her the title deeds to the farm in Elof street.
Excuse my spelling. It aint so good even in engels. Actualy I was just teasing Glen who was "faka malaisha" or stoking you up. I know he enjoyed your previous postings. I like the new improved model much better.
I have enjoyed your recent postings and the question that you pose of just how permanent the tenure of the transplanted farmers will be is very relevant.
There is obviously the danger that as soon as the Zambian agricultural industry is up and running, some clown will turn around and ask why are all these Malungu's farming here, and agitate for their now developed and profitable farms to be turned over to black Zambians.
I can only think of two possible reasons that this might not happen. Firstly there is no land shortage in Zambia now or in the forseeable future. Secondly the average Zambian would much prefer to sit in an office rather than farm.
Farming is a very tough life and an unpredictable investment. I advise Ali to sell her farm on Elof Street and invest the proceeds in commercial property.
By the way I see England and Australia are 'speeling met die beesblas' again: (playing with the bull's bladder)
Who is your money on?
Lekker Bly
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Saturday, June 26, 2004 at 11:18:24 (UTC)
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Doug
Why must "The cat crawl through under the table", or even why must "The cat crawl through, under the table"
Syd
Donald Sydney [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Bristol, Avon, United Kingdom
Saturday, June 26, 2004 at 11:08:33 (UTC)
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Doug, why does the cat have to creep under the table?????
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Saturday, June 26, 2004 at 08:44:13 (UTC)
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And now for something very different !!!"Congratulations to my 10 yearold daughter Leah for getting a medal (one of only 2) for excellence in Ballroom dancing......."
there is one slight problem folks poor Leah has a very sore neck..............(she has not taken the jolly thing off for 3 days!!!)
It is really wonderful to have children that love doing oldfashioned things..both Jade and Leah also learn classical Indian dancing........which also includes learning the language.......!!!
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Saturday, June 26, 2004 at 08:42:00 (UTC)
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Doug,
I wonder why it is that when we have a discussion on the Zim/Zam farmer transplant issue, and a question is posed about state of permanence of them in Zam, and when another suggests that it is likely to be a short term arrangement, that would be called stirring the pot. In Afriks nogal. I wonder what your feelings are? (i.e. with regards to the Zim farmer question)
And here is a challenge for you. If you can translate the following perfectly correct Afrikaans sentence into perfectly correct Engels, I will buy you a farm in Eloff Street. Here goes:
Die kat kruip onder die tafel deur.
Have fun
Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Saturday, June 26, 2004 at 02:46:27 (UTC)
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Did Arthur Lewis have a daughter called Sahra?if so would like to keep in contact with her.Where is she and what is she doing now.
Pappy Papier [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Glasgow, United Kingdom
Friday, June 25, 2004 at 20:59:51 (UTC)
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Ou Glen
Nou roer jy die pot. Los ou Chris, hy is baaie bekwaamde om dit self te doen!
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Friday, June 25, 2004 at 20:49:16 (UTC)
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Chris - you're sharp enough to have never doubted that what has been happening in Zimbabwe is the future for all Africa, never mind "Sowf Efrika". Of course, we will see then what happens to the people who "didn't know what they had till it was gone" and as per Ayub Ismail Zumla's June 23rd. posting, the ones that have half a brain will emigrate to the white ruled countries where the rule of law still exists and where they get preferred treatment if they're clever enough to play the "race card".
Ironic isn't it? All those Bantu in Zimbabwe who smile weakly at the thought of the USA having to deal with Al Qaeda - THEY have to stay put and deal with Mugabe who doesn't even have religion as an excuse!
Now let's sit back and the experts solve the problem . . . . .
Glen Drake [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
California, United States
Friday, June 25, 2004 at 19:01:36 (UTC)
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Some figures on Agricultural production in Zambia
(000 tonnes)
Maize............900
Cassava.........950
Sugar cane..1800 (Highest growth rate in recent years)
Seed Cotton....62
Wheat.............75
Millet...............55
Soybeans........30
Tobacco............3.5
(Figures are for 2002)
Although Zambia has a vast potential for irrigation, much of the Sector depends on water from rainfall. Some of the obstacles to Agricultural Production are: a poor infrastructure (roads/bridges etc), poor irrigation (hence problems when there is a drought), poor storage facilities, poor marketing, high interest rates, and yes, HIV/Aids!
Out of 7.5m Hectares of land..4.2m is classified as medium to high potential for agricultural use. Up until last year, only 14% of this available land was being cultivated.
So good luck to the new arrivals..there is so much potential!
Ayub Ismail Zumla [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Manchester, United Kingdom
Friday, June 25, 2004 at 18:50:00 (UTC)
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Colin
I was merely repeating the statement made by the Rhodesian farmer, who had relocated to Zambia, that I found on the BBC site that was recommended earlier this month on this site. I suggest you look back through this board, find the website and check it.
He said he was already producing twice the amount of tobacco that he was previously producing in Zim and intended expanding further. He did not refer to pounds per acre harvested, for all I know he may be planting twice the acreage.
I have only been marginally involved in tobacco but I have also had a fairly wide experience of general farming in both countries. Apart from having graduated from Gwebi College of Agriculture near Salisbury; having worked and trained trained with Smith & Bennet the Rhodesian "John Deere' agents in Salisbury, having been an agricultural officer with NRG; having managed a 100, 000 acre ranch in Mazabuka, having managed a 3000 acres of irrigated wheat in Mazoe valley, I have also have had 4 farms of my own.
I first got interested in farming when as a teenager in the 50's I used to spend my school holidays on Bill Culverwell's farm (Sunny Ridge Ranch) at Chisamba. He used to plant 400 acres of maize using the straight varieties of Hickory King and Southern Cross. This was before hybrids were invented. He used phosphate fertilizers and supplied nitrogen by alternately planting a green crop such as cow peas that would be ploughed in. He used to get up to 24 bags of shelled maize per acre even with those primitive seeds and methods. Very few farmers in SR could match or beat this in those days. Apart from anything else the rainfall is better and more reliable in the north. That is not an opinion, that is a fact, and farming depends above all on rain .
If you said that agriculture was far more developed in the south I would certainly have to agree with you. I could add, as a Northern Rhodesian, that most of the development in the south was financed with copper money that was plundered from the north during Federation.
I was talking about potential. Have you ever heard of the Kafue Flats. The potential, there alone, to produce wheat, cotton and sugar could dwarf the total agricultural production of SR as it was at the best of times. What about fish farming on the flood plains of Barotseland or the Bangwelu swamps. Incredible potential! By the way the fish farms in the Belgian Congo near Elizabethville in the late 50's were producing more that 4 times the weight per acre of tilapia as compared to the harvest at the fish farming unit on the research station in the Mazoe valley. The reason of course is climatic. Fish grow faster in warmer water. What about coffee around Abercorn? I could go on but that's enough to open with.
If I had said all this was happening, it would be truly be in the realms of fantasy. What I said was potential and with the help of those fine farmers from SR some of this potential may finally be realized, so I stand by my previous posting!
Colin, I hope you are not related to Koos Munro formerly of Mufulira. This might explain the aggressive tone of your posting.
Laddie, I will finish with a Scots proverb, seeing as you are now a haggis harvester, ' Dinna try to teach your Father how to make bairns!"
Slangibar - Doug
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Friday, June 25, 2004 at 18:45:28 (UTC)
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For the smilers, Johnny.
A man had great tickets for the Euro 2004 final. As he sits down,
another man comes over and asks if anyone is sitting in the seat next to him.
"No," he says. "The seat is empty."
"This is incredible!" said the man. "Who in their right
mind would have a seat like this for the Euro 2004 Final, the biggest sporting event in the world and not use it?"
He says, "Well, actually, the seat belongs to me. My wife was supposed to come with me, but she passed away. This is the first Final we haven't been to together since we got married."
"Oh ... I'm sorry to hear that. That's terrible. But
couldn't you find someone else - a friend or relative, or even a neighbour to take the seat?"
The man shakes his head. "No they're all at the funeral."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Friday, June 25, 2004 at 18:36:03 (UTC)
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Here is an extract from Farmers Weekly
ANC-regime expropriating farms in NW, Limpopo, Mpumalanga
- Chris Burgess, Editor: Farmer's Weekly
http://www.farmersweekly.co.za/
June 23 2004 - "So it's finally come. The government is going ahead with
"imminent" expropriations of farmland in the North West, Limpopo and
Mpumalanga. According to my understanding, this will be the first time the
government will expropriate land without a court order since the
Restitution Act was amended, which caused great consternation among
farmers.
Major Snip
So here we go again. First Zim, then Namibia, and now Sowf Efrika.
The question of farming potential in the North Vs the South is an interesting one. Zambia appears to have been blessed with all kinds of acreage of what appears to be great (crop) farmland. The drive from Kafue to Choma, or Lusaka to Broken Hill - miles and miles of it. Comparisons of this nature are virtually impossible (neighboring farms have difffering yields, farming the same crops!). The Zambian farming districts would remind one of the farming districts in the Midlands and Victoria provinces in the south, but perhaps Mashonaland had no equal. Certainly from the bank's perspective, there was substantially more farm lending activity in the south than the north. Comparisons are tough to make.
But one thing is for sure. Zambia has enormous potential. At the time of independence, the nation was able to feed itself, by and large. Then came KK, and by the mid seventies the food supply was in great difficulty. The "illegal regime" came to the rescue from about 1974/75 onwards. The first Letter of Credit called for 1.25 million bags of maize. The reason for the shortage was always the result of drought - but thinking people knew otherwise.
With Zimbabwe farming production in the toilet, Zambia (to their credit) are now inviting highly skilled displaced farmers from the south, to do their thing in the north. No doubt it will make a difference in the short term, but in the long term (and assuming the farmers are successful), has the GRZ given any indication that the Zim farmers will be there permanently? i.e. Have the farmers been able to buy the land Freehold, and has the GRZ openly spoken to this? Or do we think it will be a short term thing, one Zim farmer harvesting a few maize crops on one 2000 acre farm, and once the grain silos are full, re allocate that same land to 2000 one acre farms?
Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Friday, June 25, 2004 at 18:08:34 (UTC)
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Hi Barry,
Delighted to hear that Arthur Lewis is still active. Whatever happened to his Isotta Fraschini? Wasn't it Arthur who gave a running commentary from a helicopter on the progress of the Queen Mother's cavalcade approaching Kitwe from Ndola when she visited Kitwe. The commentary was broadcast over loudspeakers in Coronation Square to the worthy citizens seated there. To be properly dressed we had to wear gloves and a hat. I was able to buy a blue trilby and blue gloves from Kitwe Stores! where I believe you could have had your hat re-blocked!! I remember the irons being on display.
Great memories,
Mike
Mike Wilson [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Dawlish, Devon, United Kingdom
Friday, June 25, 2004 at 17:06:44 (UTC)
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Well done Zambia!!
Zambia, Cape Town top tourism spots
Business Day
Thursday June 24
LUSAKA - Zambia and South Africa's Cape Town, have been named as mainland Africa's only two top tourism destinations by the British 2004 Trends and Spends survey.
A tourism update by the British surveyors to the Zambia High Commission in Pretoria yesterday placed Zambia in the Top 10 long haul destinations for tourists on the mainland African continent.
"On mainland African continent, only Zambia featured in the top 10 with Kenya now slipping from 10th to 12th position," surveyors said.
Tourism promotions manager at the Zambia High Commission in Pretoria, Solistor Cheelo was elated at the news and declared that the Zambia National Tourist Board (ZNTB) at home and abroad, would continue with an aggressive marketing strategy to improve the status quo.
"With the 'Visit Zambia 2005' campaign now in motion, things can only get better and we expect a sharp rise in tourism traffic," enthused Mr Cheelo.
David Russell [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Western Australia, Australia
Friday, June 25, 2004 at 08:11:45 (UTC)
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Ray, Sue
More on those Roman murals in the coffee bar at Kitwe Little Theatre:
I did as you suggested, Ray, and emailed Arthur Lewis. I've just received his reply. Here's an extract:
Roman scenes! Goodness me! As you will know, I designed the Nkana Kitwe Little Theatre, and organised its construction. I wanted a coffee bar away from the Prompter's Arms, and this was put in the covered walk, close to the back door to the service side to the bar. At that time we has a very talented member - the wife of the Shell petrol representative on the Copperbelt at the time - who offered to decorate the wall behind the coffee bar with caricatures of members. I thought this a good idea, and she did it in about two days, in time for the rushed opening by the then Federation Governor General, Lord Dalhousie. The "Roman" theme was her idea. It was much admired ...
Arthur says that he is unable to recall the name of the artist; her husband was posted away shortly after the opening. Does anyone reading this know her name?
Barry Woodrow [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Reykjavik, Iceland
Friday, June 25, 2004 at 05:20:11 (UTC)
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Sorry Doug, Regarding your comments Southern versus Northern agricultural potential it is nonsense to say Northern ever had greater potential than Southern Rhodesia. I have extensive experiance of producing tobacco in both and we always recieved higher prices at auction in Salisbury than we did for our Northern Rhodesian produce. To say that anyone could produce twice much as tobacco in Northern Rhodesia than for example Mashonaland you would have to grow the plant twice the size without twice the sandlugs and twice the tips or else crop twice a year or get twice as much per pound. As Capt. Mannering would say we are now getting into the realms of fantisy. Also sorry the maize crop in Southern Rhodesia was always better than Northern but this could be because we were better farmers without the use of modern fertilisers. All be it I have nothing but admiration for the the farmers re-allocating to Northern Rhodesia from the detesable regime in S.R. I only wish them the very best and hope they will join this web site to hear their views.
Colin Munro [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Oban, Scotland, United Kingdom
Friday, June 25, 2004 at 01:39:00 (UTC)
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As I recall from schooldays at Independence, Kwacha = Dawn, Ngwee = Brightness. And despite the fact that the ngwee is no longer legal tender and doesn't exist, you can still receive an invoice for K20,527,625.23. Now why, when you're dealing in the millions, should you have to bother about 23n? And bank statements, even more strangely, also use ngwees. How bizzarre is that? The other option to paying cash is to use your Barclays Connect card - a local one, which is accepted in plenty of places but frankly, the system is a bit tedious (and goes down frequently). I just used my UK Visa card in the 'hole in the wall' or, for larger amounts, inside the bank. The biggest problem with the 'hole in the wall' is that they frequently run out of cash. You go through the whole rigmarole right down to 'please wait for you money' or whatever and then the screen flashes up 'this machine is now out of order'. I have found on a couple of occasions that both the original transaction which failed and the following one on another machine have been debited to my account. You try telling your bank here that the machine just ran out of notes... But the machines have improved since the introduction of higher denomination notes.
Lizd [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
United Kingdom
Thursday, June 24, 2004 at 19:59:57 (UTC)
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I cannot authenticate the following but please read if not for any particular reason.
One stormy night at 11.30pm, an elderly African/ American woman was standing on the side of an Alabama highway trying to endure a lashing rainstorm. Her car had broken down and she desperately needed a ride. Soaking wet she decided to flag down the next car. A young white man stopped to help her, which was a thing unheard of in those 1960 conflict - filled years. The man helped her get a taxicab and although she seemed in a desperate hurry she still took the time to write down his name and address.
Seven days later a Giant TV console was delivered to his home with a special note that read "Thank you so much for assisting me on the night, the rain had not only drenched my clothes but also my spirits. Thankfully you came along and because of you I was able to make it to my dying husband's bedside before he passed away. God bless you for helping me and unselfishly serving others".
Sincerely Mrs. Nat King Cole
David Hoyle [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Muscat, Oman
Thursday, June 24, 2004 at 19:40:35 (UTC)
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Marg & Steven deLange
My condolences to you and all the family on the death of Pat Hallet. He and Beryl were great friends of my Mom and Step Dad (Bee and Dick Burton). Pat worked with Dick at Mindola Mine. Pat drove me to the church on my wedding day and then drove Chris, my husband, and I to our wedding reception. I have some cine film of that day with Pat in it and also some of Beryl and Pat while they were on holiday there with my Mom and Dick in Seapoint in the Cape.
Chris and I send our condolences to all the family.
Ada Cantrell (née Wienand) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hastings, East Sussex, England
Thursday, June 24, 2004 at 18:15:31 (UTC)
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The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language defines “Ngwee” as being derived from the Nyanja word for "bright".
Noreen D'Cruz [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Toronto, Canada
Thursday, June 24, 2004 at 15:27:27 (UTC)
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Keith: The word "Kwacha" literally means," The sun has risen (or "is rising"), as opposed to "Kwada", meaning. "The sun is setting" (or "has set"). "Kwacha" was used as a "Freedom" expression by ZANC (later UNIP), in pre-Independence statements. Have no idea of "Ngwee". All of the above are ideophonic expressions.
Ken Fernie [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Irvine, California, United States
Thursday, June 24, 2004 at 13:50:06 (UTC)
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Don Burton, Peter Pickering, Len Ware, Bryan Lendrum, Robert Worrill, Michael Armstrong
Best wishes on your birthday
KWACHAS, DOLLARS, BANK ACCOUNTS AND SO ON
1. Most things are quoted in Dollars, and if not quoted in Dollars (i.e. in supermarkets etc), they they are Dollar linked in the pricing structure.
2. Even when quoted or priced in Dollars, payment can be made in Kwachas, Dollars, Euros, Sterling, Rand or any other easily convertible currency
3. Residents can move Kwachas or Forex freely in and out of the country. The only limitation is that if you want to take out or move more than US$ 5,000 through your bank, they have to advise their head office in Lusaka of the specific transaction. Also, if changing cash at a bank or a bureau, one needs to have some form of identification on them, which is recorded (records are kept to control/prevent money laundering)
4. Some shops do accept Dollars (read also Euro, Sterling, Rand etc) for payment of small pruchases, as do some of the pubs, restaurants, fuel stations etc. This very much depends on the owner of the business.
5. No, a visitor is not required to pay his hotel bill in forex.
6. No money black market exists in Zambia any longer (except for Zimbabwean Dollars which are freely and cheaply available especially in the border towns)
7. Residents may have Kwacha or Dollar accounts. I have both, not only for my business, but also my personal account.Some bank charges on forex accounts are very high, but this also depends on your standing as a customer, how much money you have moving through your account etc and also how much you are prepared to shout. My Dollars accounts cost me very little. There are also not many place in the world where your bank will phone you because you haven't signed a cheque. I forget to sign my cheques reqularly, the bank phones me, I tell them to pay the cheque, I send my driver up to the bank, he collects the cheque brings it to me for signing and returns the signed cheque to the bank. I doubt whether there are many banks in the 'civilised' world that would offer that sort of service.
8. Credit cards and charge cards are very seldom used in Zambia although they are accepted in the larger hotels and are becoming more common. Mostly, we carry cash around, either in Kwachas or Dollars (none of us use wallets, the Kwachas just get stuffed into pockets, briefcases or handbags although it is now much easier with the K 50,000notes). Having said that, I mostly carry my cheque book and most businesses accept cheques from me. This is not the case for everyone, but my policy is very simple - if you won't take a cheque from me, then I will take my business elsewhere; and I do.
9. For Dollar/Kwacha transactions, in my business, we check the exchange rate with the bank at the beginning of each week, and hold that exchange rate for the week. My invoices are issued in both Kwacha and Dollars, but if paying in Kwacha, they have thirty days to pay, after which we re-adjust the exchange rate.
10. None of our currency has our president's head on it. This went out when we got rid of KK
11. A packet of 20 cigarettes costs around US$ 1. A bottle of beer costs around US$ 0.50. A kilo of steak (tender, tasty raised on good veld and not pumped full of steroids, hormones etc) costs around US$ 3. A litre of fuel (the most expensive in the region) costs around US$ 0.90.
CITIZENSHIP
From the way I see it, and with my current problems regarding my citizenship, the Doctor should not be allowed to return to Zambia. If he is, I, for one, will want to know why and will be making a lot of noise about it.
From what I understand, in cases where one becomes stateless, one can apply to the UN for a passport. If it is granted, you are then entitled to nominate the country in which you want to live and that country is obliged to accept you.
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Thursday, June 24, 2004 at 06:09:43 (UTC)
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Whilst I'm on a roll (and having just asked the rhetorical question below) I thought I would check whether Ian Smith might have appeared on a lesser value coin.
There's a photo on the web of a 1970 Rhodesian 1 cent coin but it bears no presidential, prime ministerial or royal head on it. The coat of arms on the obverse looks very familiar though.
See:
http://www.coin-newbies.com/worldimage/rhodesia/rho1c1970.html
Keith Binns [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Thursday, June 24, 2004 at 03:48:48 (UTC)
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I thought I would "do a google" to see if I could find the origins of the words Kwacha and ngwee. No luck there, but I did come across the following link showing the head and tail of a 10 ngwee coin. That must be worth all of 0.0021 US cents at the rates quoted in earlier postings today.
Could there possibly be any other president from any other country or era with his head on a coin of less value?
http://www.coin-newbies.com/worldimage/zambia/zm10n1968.html
Keith Binns [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Thursday, June 24, 2004 at 03:40:50 (UTC)
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And Keith, an afterthought,
Soon you might need a bakkie to carry loot to buy your bakkie
(Oh, that is terrible!!)
Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Thursday, June 24, 2004 at 02:58:55 (UTC)
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Keith in Perth assumes:
Seeing that bakkie might be worth US$10,500, maybe negotiated down to US$10,000, I figured it was unlikely to be that ubiquitous Zambian/Zimbabawean product, tobacco.
Ag ja well no fine Keith. But it does trigger a thought. A packet of 20 fags in the US now runs in excess of US$4. At the prevailing Kwacha rate of ,say, 4,750, that would make that same pack about ZK19,000.
Scary thought hey?
Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Thursday, June 24, 2004 at 02:55:55 (UTC)
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Seeing that bakkie might be worth US$10,500, maybe negotiated down to US$10,000, I figured it was unlikely to be that ubiquitous Zambian/Zimbabawean product, tobacco.
Google to the rescue again. It’s a truck.
Keith Binns [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Thursday, June 24, 2004 at 01:12:53 (UTC)
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Yes, I would agree that it is less painful than one imagines. I was a millionairre several times over in Bali, and in the former Yugoslavia, but then in those countries, the currency notes matched the nominal value of goods and services.
What I was driving at is having to safeguard both Kwacha and Forex. The Kwachas are likely a breeze - cheques, savings accounts, large denomonation bills etc. But then what do you do with the $10,000 I just received from you for the bakkie I sold you, wishing to avoid those high fees on bank forex accounts? The jolly old mattress I guess?
Heather?
Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Thursday, June 24, 2004 at 00:34:24 (UTC)
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Chris,
On one of the previous message boards Arthur posted a picture of me with almost Z$1 000 000, most of it in Z$500 notes, laid out in front of me on the table in drug-deal fashion. It's an even bigger problem in Zimbabwe (than in Zambia) where, last time I checked, the largest note is Z$500 (as opposed to Zambia where the largest note is K50 000). That has since changed in Zimbabwe with the printing of bearer cheques with expiry dates (the largest of which is only Z$20 000), but while I was there late last year a friend was carrying around a big bag of cash in Z$20 notes, trying desperately to spend it and therefore get rid of it. On top of that there is (or at least was) a shortage of actual cash in Zimbabwe (hence the reason my friend had been paid in Z$20 notes) -- the actual reason for the printing of the bearer cheques.
Anyway, while it's a pain (and sometimes confusing when dealing in thousands to buy groceries) to handle large quantities of kwacha for people like you and I used to dealing with fewer notes and a handful of coins (and credit and debit cards), I didn't find it a "nightmare" and everyone else seems to manage. It's probably not much different to dealing with the lira in Italy, before they started using the euro. Even here in Canada now, people don't bother giving or asking for change less than five cents, the smallest coin other than the one-cent piece. In Australia the one-cent piece has gone the way of the Dodo bird, and accounting systems (including cash registers) are set to round out to the nearest five cents.
I should slightly correct something I said earlier. I implied that the kwacha price of an item could change in a very short time. I was probably thinking of Zimbabwe when I wrote that, as prices there increase while you blink. On the Bank of Zambia Web site, the current market exchange rate for the US dollar in kwachas is K4827.14 (K4817.50 on the XE.com currency exchange Web site). That's about what it was when I was there last year -- if not slightly better, which is probably more of a reflection of the US dollar's performance in recent months. Inflation in Zambia is certainly higher than it is in the US and Canada, but they are still miles ahead of Zimbabwe.
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Thursday, June 24, 2004 at 00:09:33 (UTC)
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Craig,
If option a> is indeed the common way to go, then the issue of cash carrying (large volumes of!) must surely be a nightmare?
I suppose I might have experienced the genesis of this, on the day I left Zambia, January 15, 1970. I had agreed to sell my car (Peugeot 404, what else), to a Swedish Doctor who had just arrived in the country with the VSO (Voluntary Service Overseas). We agreed on a price a fortnight or so earlier, but agreed to complete the deal in my office on the morning of January 15. She came in at the appointed time, carrying one of those really old fashioned medical doctor bags - real heavy duty leather, about the size of a brief case but much fatter, where you would pull open the top and it would open up like a large mouth bass to reveal a large cavity full of stethoscopes, hypodermic syringes, drugs, etc. Bloody thing weighed a ton!
She opened up this bag, turned the bag upside down over the desk, and layed out before me, the right amount of Kwacha and Ngwees, in small unmarked denominations. In todays world, I would have easily surmised it was drug money, but perhaps not in those days. The largest note was a K10 and the smallest a 50ngwee.
I counted it all out (handling currency like that was a piece of cake in my then profession), handed the car keys and documents over, completed a bank deposit slip, and took it downstairs to the teller said goodbye to all my friends, got a ride to Lusaka Airport and flew to Salisbury, via Blantyre.
Cash has no smell I guess, but it sure is a pain to safeguard
Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Wednesday, June 23, 2004 at 22:42:34 (UTC)
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Chris,
From what I saw, your supposition that people are weighed down by either loads of forex (usually US dollars) or kwacha (and "weighed down" is quite appropriate a term in that case) is essentially correct. As Liz said, I think forex accounts do exist, although it doesn't surprise me that they come with hefty fees, so that probably makes it easier to deal in cash US dollars.
While your option A is unwieldy, keep in mind that you (as the seller of the bakkie and a resident of Zambia) are probably also buying stuff in US dollars, so while you might bank most of the $10 000, depending on your needs you might be turning around and using it to put a down payment on your next Mercedes, or some other item for which you might be paying in US dollars.
As for paying for big-tickets items like bakkies, there's kwacha chequing accounts, of course, and presumably the forex chequing accounts that Liz mentioned. I forgot to mention in my previous response that, from what I saw, credit/charge cards are not widely accepted.
Going back to paying for food and drink in a restaurant, as with most countries people expect to be paid in the local currency. So, if I try to pay my kwacha bill in US dollars, my US dollars will be converted to kwacha at the prevailing rate, and my change given in kwachas. Because we are so close to the US border, many shops and restaurants here display their exchange rate of the day for the US dollar. They will happily do as I just described and provide change in Canadian dollars.
I'm sure that Heather will have more to say when she has the time.
I will do my best to keep my nose clean here, but my passport and toothbrush are always within easy and quick reach should I need to take the gap. :)
Correct Link
The correct link to the Bank of Zambia notice is www.boz.zm/media/foreign_exchange_public_notice.htm. It's pretty much as I understood the situation. I do remember this being a relatively recent issue (the notice is dated 25 June 2002), but you'll notice that the notice only refers to "an undesirable trend" and says that "... in the absence of an agreement to the contrary, one party to a transaction cannot unilaterally demand to transact in foreign currency and refuse to accept Kwacha and Ngwee." (In reality the ngwee exists only in myth, history and coin collections.) Nowhere does it say that conducting a transaction in forex is actually illegal, and in fact says that it's fine as long as both parties agree. It's the fact that some sellers are/were "demanding" payment in forex that annoys the bank, and this makes sense. As with other agencies in other countries that are on the lookout for the consumer, it's within their right to question the practice.
Ken,
Not a bad idea, but it's not new. I think the country to which you refer is called "Australia". It's a remote island in the south Pacific Ocean. Then there's also Escape from New York.
I did have a slightly more serious comment, but it has slipped my mind.
Sue,
The "programme" even works on me. See some of my poor spelling and grammar in my recent posts, and probably this one too!
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Wednesday, June 23, 2004 at 22:08:44 (UTC)
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See:
http://www/boz.zm/media/foreign_exchange_public_notice_htm
for laws regarding money transactions in Zambia.
Sound advice...
if you ever are stripped of your Citizenship..destroy all your documentation..including your birth certificate..and refuse to tell the authorities where you were born. Go into court and voila!.. you will be declared a Stateless person. This is done all the time by many refugees in the UK!!! You will then be protected by the UN Convention!!
Talking about Refugees ...the BBC reports "uncovering" a racket by a Birmingham-based organisation ... helping hundreds of Mugabe supporters gain entry into the UK via the country's asylum Laws. What perplexes me is why would Mugabe supporters want to leave Zimbabwe!!! If the BBC report is true then one way of getting rid of Mugabe would be to deprive him of his support at home... confused!! The BBC tries to complicate a simple matter ..there is a problem in Zimbabwe...a big problem involving matters of life and death and the BBC ,instead of highlighting the fact that the UK Government sustains Mugabe by being his country's major trading partner, decides to waste our license fee on making a programme whose logic beggars belief!
Ayub Ismail Zumla [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Manchester, United Kingdom
Wednesday, June 23, 2004 at 21:14:05 (UTC)
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Deportation:
In the late sixties, there were a number of instances where staff at the bank were arrested, in the office, taken home, packed his belongings, filled his car, and escorted to Chirundu. In one instance that I am aware off, the poor bloke was born and bred Northern Rhodesian/Zambian. The Rhodesian authorities at Chirundu usually allowed entry (in our case) based on the fact that the company would give him/her a job and thus allowing for immigartion procedures etc. after the event.
So Craig, best you keep your nose clean up there in the Peoples Republic of Canadia.
It will be interesting to follow the case of this sick quack.
Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Wednesday, June 23, 2004 at 20:25:36 (UTC)
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Craig: Maybe the Disunited Nations will come up with an answer. They'll take a chunk of some country, where no one ever goes, like the Sahara or the Gobi, and make a brand new nation. They should call it Limbo, cos most of us are there already, or Hell, cos we're always told to go there. This Schneeberger guy should be incarcerated pro perm. He ought not to be wished on any other country - even Zimbabwe.
Ken Fernie [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Irvine, California, United States
Wednesday, June 23, 2004 at 20:21:19 (UTC)
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Yes, you can have a forex account now - no problems - although some banks charge quite a high monthly charge to operate them.
Lizd [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
United Kingdom
Wednesday, June 23, 2004 at 20:18:20 (UTC)
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Craig,
Many thanks. The issue that tweaks my curiosity (reading the Lowdown classifieds, and your comments), is that people there must be carrying loads of forex with them during the day, and under the proverbial mattress at night.
If I understand the situation - I have a bakkie for sale. My asking price is US$10,500. Along comes Craig and we negotiate and settle for US$10,000. We are both Zambian residents. Upon taking possession, Craig either:
a> Pays me US$10,000 in cash, which I now have to take to the bank, convert into Kwacha at the prevailing exchange rate, and then credit my savings account
or
b> We check at the local bank to see what the US$ exchange rate is and pays me the Kwacha equivalent of US$10,000 at that moment's conversion rate.
Option A seems awfully unwieldy for both of us, unless, of course, the local banks offer residents forex accounts as well? Very unlikely I would guess.
Heather?
Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Wednesday, June 23, 2004 at 20:11:19 (UTC)
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International Rules Governing Citizenship
Surely somewhere, either at the UN or in the form of some international treaty, there must be some rules governing this sort of thing that make it a pretty clear case, and not something subject to determination in the courts of just one country. There are such widely differing rules between countries regarding obtaining citizenship and who qualifies that it's a wonder there is any sort of compatibility at all.
Here's an even better example than the one in question: What if I was stripped of my Canadian citizenship? To where would I be deported? The country of my birth (Rhodesia, as it says on my birth certificate) no longer exists (and in a stronger way than the way Northern Rhodesia no longer exists), and I would certainly be persona non grata at Harare International Airport should I be deported there. And what of people born in countries, the borders of which have complete changed, such as many eastern European countries?
As I said, there must be some international protocols on this sort of thing, and I be very interested to know what they are.
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Wednesday, June 23, 2004 at 20:05:54 (UTC)
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Ayub: Perchance there's a place for him in Ulan Bator, but that would be disrespectful to the Mongol people. San Francisco might welcome him, to do their drive-by slappings!
Ken Fernie [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Irvine, California, United States
Wednesday, June 23, 2004 at 19:52:53 (UTC)
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Regarding the Doctor and his" impending "deportation is seems patently clear that the man obtained Canadian Citizenship some years back. When he did so he was required by Zambian Law to renounce his Zambian Citizenship (assuming he was a Zambian citizen at that time). Since he must have done that ,it therefore should be a Canadian problem and Zambia should logically have nothing to do with this man.So by Law he will remain in Canada. And Zambia will be saved from a potential hazard!
Ayub Ismail Zumla [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Manchester, United Kingdom
Wednesday, June 23, 2004 at 19:35:39 (UTC)
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Chris,
Interesting questions, and the answers might address some of your previous comments about the cost of a holiday to/in Zambia when compared to other parts of the world. I'll give you my answers (without editorial comment) from the perspective of a tourist and someone who does business with Zambian businesses, and Heather can add to or correct anything I say.
To the best of my knowledge, US dollars are often quoted for most things other than groceries, more for convenience because the kwacha price changes relatively often because of inflation. The US dollar is obviously more stable than the kwacha, and the prices of many goods (particularly imports) are tied to the value of the dollar rather than the kwacha.- I'd say that the answer to your first question is yes, but I don't think it's unusual for the seller to be paid in kwacha at the current exchange rate. That way the price in US dollars stays constant, but the kwacha price could change between today and next week.
- In Zambia.
- Can't answer this one fully. Other than carrying petty cash across borders, I usually use banks in some shape or form, whether it's through travellers' cheques, credit cards, wires, money orders, etc. I do believe that there are no forex restrictions in Zambia a la Zimbabwe, and the kwacha is traded at market rates, unlike the Zimbabwe dollar.
- As I said above, everyday sort of transactions (petrol, groceries, etc.) are conducted in kwachas. I never tried to buy such items with forex.
- I paid for my food and drink in kwachas. Again, I didn't try to pay in forex. However, I was at a restaurant in Lusaka while I was there where some South Africans were insisting on paying in rands. The owner was not happy, but mostly I think because they had drunk more than they had rands to pay for.
- Unlike places like Zimbabwe, I believe one (as a foreigner) can pay one's hotel bill in kwachas. However, prices are usually quoted and payment accepted in US dollars, even for and from local residents. American Express travellers' cheques, while accepted, are only accepted grudgingly because they take approximately three months to clear, which is obviously not a good thing for a business that relies on cash flow. I'm not sure where the fault lies with this, however.
Hope that answers your questions.
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Wednesday, June 23, 2004 at 19:23:38 (UTC)
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Here are some random entries from the May 2004 edeition of the Lowdown:
FOR SALE. Expat leaving. Daewoo Nubira 5 doors, 2000 red book, 28,000 km, US$ 7,000. Nissan March, 3 doors, lady driven, 52,000km, US$3,500, IKEA Beechwood dinner set (8 seats table, chairs, chest), US$800, 2 Mukwa armchairs with cushions US$50 each, 1 IKEA carpet (2 x 3m) plain colour, US$70. Wireless speakers Philips US$60 and other household items (curtains, kitchen hardware, etc) cell 097 791-342 or 01 260-284.
FOR SALE. From expats leaving in June. Nissan AD wagon 1.6LX white book 1996. 99,000 km. US$ 3,750. 4 WD Isuzu Trooper (8/2000) 3.2l Diesel (71,000 km), US$ 18,000. Piano US$1,500 and various other items. Contact 01 264-777.
FOR SALE. Large bore rifle Ruger MKII .458 WIN. MAG., peep-sights, recoil pad, rings. Immaculate condition. K5 milllion. Ammo extra. Contact 095 847-155.
I am curious to note that the asking prices seamlessly move from USD to Kwacha, and wonder if Heather, or anyone else living in Zambia, would mind answering the following:
1> If the asking price is US$, then is the seller typically paid in US$?
2> If so, where? (In Zambia, or off shore?)
3> Can residents now freely move Kwachas and Foregn currencies into and out of Zambia, or do you have to use a commercial bank for such transfers?
4> Can one use either Kwachas or Forex in local stores, petrol stations etc? (err..., legally that is!)
5> How does a foreign visitor buy a beer at Boons Bar? (i.e. does he have to visit the local bank to convert forex to Kwacha first and then pay in Kwacha, or does he have to pay in forex?)
6> Is a visitor required to pay his hotel bill in forex? Cash or Charge Card? or can he indeed pay in Kwacha?
Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Wednesday, June 23, 2004 at 18:33:20 (UTC)
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All this talk of Theater Societies makes me wax nostalgic. Rina and I were very active in Lusaka, me in productions and she as wardrobe Mistress, for several years. In '78, I ran into Dave Pownall, ex-Kitwe, at the Fringe at Edinburgh Festival. Dave was producing his own play, " Richard 111 Part 2", with a Company he started, Paynes Plough. Last time I was in Scotland, 01, I had coffee with Bob and Anne Anderson, both stalwarts in LTC. Some of you may remember Bob's unbelievable sets and Anne's production (among others) of "Old Times", which won the TAZ Festival. James Roose-Evans was the adjuticator. I heard that Nick Montgomery recently appeared in a production of "The Rocky Horror Show" (in tights already). I still have a copy of Dave's "The Raining Tree War", hilarious, to say the least, and a copy of Roose-Evans' "Experimental Theater". Halcyon days!! If Heather can keep us up to speed about LTC, it would be most welcome.
Ken Fernie [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Irvine, California, United States
Wednesday, June 23, 2004 at 17:19:05 (UTC)
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Ken it is Bills youngest son his elder son is a surgeon in the USA and there dear mother Ina is still living in Durban bless her she must be distraught, Johnny.
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Wednesday, June 23, 2004 at 17:08:00 (UTC)
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Ken Doctor Bill was a good pal of mine unfortunatley he died about 20 years ago I canot remember if his son was called Bill but I will find out Johnny.
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Wednesday, June 23, 2004 at 15:30:53 (UTC)
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The only Scneeberger I ever met, was a Doctor (Bill) in Chingola in the mid sixties. He was in practise with Clem Driver, both very good G.Ps. Bill, like many others in the Medical profession, was into racing horses. Just wondered if there was any connection.
Ken Fernie [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Irvine, California, United States
Wednesday, June 23, 2004 at 13:45:40 (UTC)
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Yukon Pete quotes from the papers:
The 42-year-old former Kipling doctor will likely either be deported to South Africa, where he grew up and attended medical school, or Zambia, where he was born.
This will be interesting to follow. Never heard of the man or the case, but assuming he is a white man, the Canadians will likely have a tough time deporting him to either SA or Zambia.
Want to take a bet he will stay in Canada, living in some way out of the way town, under an assumed name, known only to a few law enforcement agencies?
Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Wednesday, June 23, 2004 at 01:15:25 (UTC)
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Northeners...
See below - From the Globe and Mail - will be interesting to see wherehe will be deported to - and if they will take him...
Did anyone know him?
CALGARY - Federal immigration officers began making travel plans with sex offender John Schneeberger immediately after the former Saskatchewan doctor was ordered deported from Canada yesterday.
"It could take days, it could take weeks," said Mike Fitzpatrick, a spokesman for Citizenship and Immigration in Regina. "We still have to enter into an agreement with another country to authorize his entry. The parameters depend on available flights and travel documents."
Schneeberger -- most notorious for thwarting DNA tests by surgically implanting a tube of another man's blood into his arm after drugging and raping a female patient and sexually assaulting his teenage stepdaughter -- showed little emotion when the deportation order was issued from Calgary.
The 42-year-old former Kipling doctor will likely either be deported to South Africa, where he grew up and attended medical school, or Zambia, where he was born.
The decision to deport was made in Calgary by Immigration and Refugee board member Paul Kyba. Schneeberger participated from Regina via video conference.
Schneeberger, who was paroled in November, 2003, and is living in Regina, was flanked by a court security guard.
A publication ban prevents both Schneeberger and his former wife, of Red Deer, from speaking with the media.
The federal Cabinet revoked Schneeberger's citizenship last year when a federal judge ruled he lied on his citizenship application in 1993, denying he was under investigation for the crimes against the patient in 1992.
Peter Dielissen [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
Tuesday, June 22, 2004 at 21:45:31 (UTC)
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I remember 'The Crucible' very well. Pat Williams was in the leading role and Dick Downing did the lights. I would guess at late '60's/early 70's. Mind you, that was at RADOS - Luanshya's Little Theatre. As to Kitwe's Little Theatre, the last time we went there was about '97 when Nel Cornelius put on a 'Bits & Pieces' type show - and very good it was too. So it was still functional then. I think that I maybe have a picture taken from the outside since then. Will have to have a look through. RADOS, when we went there a few years ago, was open but other than a bar, doubt whether it functions as much more. Also have pictures of the inside of the bar - they wouldn't let us go inside the theatre - the woman, presumably running the show became rather defensive! The last show I was in there, mid 80's, TAZ Festivel show, name of which eludes me, was probably the last - although I could be wrong. But about then, the wardrobe was looted and all those marvellous costumes were removed and gone forever. I recall wearing a wonderful purple chiffon, embroidered, gold threaded, tasseled and strictly original 1920's top in one show which I coveted. Foolishly, I didn't succumb to temptation. Wish I had though because I know exactly who did .... And now, there's nothing left of the wardrobe. Shouldn't think there's much left of the lights either. A school play in Muf Little Theater that Dick was asked to do the lighting for in the 80's was a challenge, to say the least!
Lizd [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
United Kingdom
Tuesday, June 22, 2004 at 21:34:03 (UTC)
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Fiona
Excellent story about the Zim farmers resettling in Zambia. 300 so far and soon that will be doubled. Mugabe's loss is Zambia's gain. Zambia always did have better agricultural potential than Zimbabwe. The chap in the story is already harvesting twice as much tobacco as he did in Zim and plans to expand even more. Ena lo!
Chris
I also had a good laugh at your definitions.
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Tuesday, June 22, 2004 at 18:06:34 (UTC)
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Sorry Glen, can't remember names of productions - just excellent sights, sounds and smells.
Sue Coughlan (née Forde) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, WA, Australia
Tuesday, June 22, 2004 at 14:57:24 (UTC)
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Thanks Tina, after a s... of a day.............your posting gave me another dimension to think about.....we are truly lucky ...........I pray that those in Zims are ok..............
Ali
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Tuesday, June 22, 2004 at 14:54:52 (UTC)
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Sue - can you remember whether or not "The Crucible" was one of The Little Theatre's productions in 1962? I assisted in the lighting and sound. H-m-m-m-m-m-m . . . . . 1962? So long ago and what fond memories of drinks and "mingling" at the bar between acts. I had a flashy, brand new Austin Westminster 110, 6 cylinder; with electrically operated OVERDRIVE of course! It was two tone, black and regent red - NOT just dark red - REGENT red no-less! Immediately after each show in which I was a participant I carefully timed a "casual" drive by the main entrance so that exiting patrons in all their finery noticed me. Tsk, Tsk . . . . . new car but no chicks!
Glen Drake [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
California, United States
Tuesday, June 22, 2004 at 14:45:38 (UTC)
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Meg:
maybe tis address could help with the school books
www.cindi.org.zm/
Peter
Peter Goodhew [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Western Australia, Australia
Tuesday, June 22, 2004 at 12:57:44 (UTC)
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Hi Ray
Yes, the Little Theatre gave so much to us all. I was only briefly involved at 12 (around 62) for a few years, taken with my parents who were backstage workers and involved for a fair while. But I vividly remember painting all those local faces, finding the attitudes of the subjects quite risqué – I was very innocent then...
The impressions and love of theatre, excitement backstage, atmospheres – the influence never left me and was not wasted.
Since settling in Perth I again got involved in theatre. I was a founding member of a local adult theatre group and then branched out to start my own Youth Theatre in the northern suburbs for 12 – 25 year olds. It's a great grounding for anyone.
We were very lucky to have the opportunities we did and I am aware of just how lucky I still am.
Sue Coughlan (née Forde) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, WA, Australia
Tuesday, June 22, 2004 at 10:24:50 (UTC)
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Barry and Sue,
Those scans of the Little Theatre programme certainly did bring back some happy memories. I've been trying to think why Hilry and I weren't involved in Romulus and Remus, as we seemed to be in most productions around that time, but '71 was the year we did our overland trip and so we were probably away at audition time.
The Roman murals date back to pre 1968 when I joined NKAS. I have a faint recollection that they were done for a production of Julius Caeser in the mid 60's, and that the artist was either Arthur Lewis himself, or maybe Mike Warr who was Arthur's architect partner in the few years prior to them both leaving Zambia. If Guy Hobbs is around, he should be able to confirm who it was - or you could always ask Arthur yourself, Barry.
A couple of months ago someone - I forget who - posted a photo of the Kitwe Little Theatre taken fairly recently and the place looked so run-down and neglected, and indeed so "little". It seems a great pity that a place so dear to our memories that was such an important part of our lives for so long has been allowed to deteriorate to such an extent. And as an aside, I wonder whatever happened to the theatre's grand piano. I remember numerous occasions helping to manually move it up onto the stage or down into the orchestra pit, as the current production required.
And finally, yes, so many names of the cast and crew of R and R are so familiar - brings memories flooding back.
This is the essence of GNR and what makes it so interesting and valuable in reminding us of what for many (certainly for me!) were the most enjoyable years of our lives.
Keep them coming, folks!
Ray Wright [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, WA, Australia
Tuesday, June 22, 2004 at 09:40:00 (UTC)
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Good grief, I laughed at Chris Tamm's posting!
Here is a link to a very heartening story from the BBC about a Zimbabwean tobacco farmer who has moved to Zambia
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/picture_gallery/04/africa_exiled_zimbabwe_farmer/html/1.stm
Sorry, you will have to copy and paste it because I don't know how to make the link clickable.
Fiona Gayther (née Ferguson) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tytherington, Gloucestershire, United Kingdom
Tuesday, June 22, 2004 at 08:17:13 (UTC)
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THE BOKSBURG THESAURUS OF COMPUTER TERMINOLOGY
Log On - Make the braai hotter
Log Off - The braai is too hot
Hard drive - Trip back home without any cold beer
Byte - What mosquitoes do
Bit - What mosquitoes did
Mega Byte - What mosquitoes at the lake do
Chip - A bar snack
Micro Chip - What's left in the bag after you have eaten the chips
Dot Matrix - Old Jan Matrix's wife
Search Engine - What you do when the bakkie won't go
Yahoo - What you say when the bakkie does go
Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Monday, June 21, 2004 at 18:02:46 (UTC)
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Was going to post on a program about bikes expressly designed for Africa. Then this turned up in my email. There are some seriously brave and determined people in this world!!! No problems about reprinting this here. Eddie was also interviewed on South African radio about two weeks back.
"Making a Point.
I struck a blow against the Mugabe regime this weekend - I pruned my roses.
This may seem a bit facetious but you see - by pruning my roses and then giving them a shot of good goat manure from Beitbridge I am signaling to
anyone who cares to look, that I am here for the spring and summer. If for no other reason than to simply enjoy the wonderful flush of blooms that will follow my winter care.
On the main road to Harare from Beitbridge - about 60 kilometers from the Bridge, there is a sign on the side of the road "Kleinbegin - Sam Cawood".
Behind that sign is a road that leads to a farmhouse where Sam Cawood and his wife Janet live. Local Zanu thugs have invaded them, all they hold dear has been lost to them. Decades of dedicated cattle breeding has been swept away by the vandalism, but Sam took the time to go and put his sign back up after it had been knocked down. The name of the ranch "Kleinbegin" - "small beginnings" says it all.
What small thing did you do this week to show that you are not going to just lie down and give up to the thugs and bullies of Zanu PF? Yesterday 200 young Zimbabweans went to a meeting in Johannesburg scheduled to be addressed by Gideon Gono. They heckled and jeered and told him to "go home".
They told him that until their own rights at home were respected - they were not going to tolerate his presence, or that of the Zimbabwe Ambassador at a
meeting in a hotel in Johannesburg. He and the ambassador had to be escorted from the hotel by the Police.
Today 70 women are in jail in Bulawayo - sitting, singing their songs on a cold concrete floor, (note from Tina - yep, Jenni Williams who heads WOZA is in jail again!!) 7 of them with babies, just because they wanted to march in support of World Refugee Day. They will be both hungry and cold tonight as temperatures drop to near zero, but their hearts will be warm and their courage and determination encourage us.
Last Monday the Kidd's, Birgit and Shane went down to the local MDC office, cleaned it up and painted the walls - then painted on the walls that this
was the "MDC Chimanimani Office". For their trouble they were beaten - Birgit has stitches in her head and a dislocated shoulder; Shane was badly beaten about the head. Today they are back in their home - still determined to carry on with their legitimate support for Roy Bennett and the MDC in the area.
Last night a small team went out onto the streets and furtively began putting Zakwana symbols on lampposts - then quietly disappeared to the fury of the local Police.
Tonight the SW Africa team plus the team at Studio 7 and the Voice of the People will broadcast news and views to the people of Zimbabwe - small teams
of people who love their country and are just doing what they can in their own way.
What will you do today and tomorrow to encourage others to fight on, to spread the word that change is coming. That Zanu is finished - those who are
guilty must prepare for the worst.
Our men's fellowship from the Church is preparing to stand with one of our number who will be in Court shortly - facing charges which any one of us
could be facing - we want him to know he is not alone - we want the authorities to also know that. His legal fees will be Z$25 million - we need to make sure he is not alone with that either, and we will.
It could be something very small - fix the potholes in your road, paint the sign of your house so that all can see it is not for sale - you are in residence and intend to stay so. Write a letter to your local Headmaster and
encourage him or her to keep up the good work they are doing. Go to the rugby at Falcon next Saturday - take a packed lunch and shout support for the team you support. Take your surplus vegetables to the local old folk's home and ask them to see that they get to someone who need a bit of help.
Let me tell you - there is no power on earth so powerful as the combined weight of a united people, caring and working for each other and to change their country for the better.
If you live outside Zimbabwe then do your part if you care - write to your paper, your MP, your Church leadership, demand action. Send a small donation to the nearest MDC Trust Fund or simply to an
MDC office in Zimbabwe - small donations in hard currency go a long way here. Try to do something every week - every day if you can.
On their own each of these actions is small and insignificant, but together they will make a roaring torrent which will sweep away the tyranny and wipe
the slate clean for a new beginning. I know we all want the grand finale - the quick fix, but often that route is not just dangerous but also destructive. Be on the side of those who are working for a better life for
all Zimbabweans. Support change by changing your own universe.
Lord;
Where there is despair, let me be an example of hope.
Where there is anger, let me be an example of love and care.
Where there is need, help me to commit the means to do what I can.
Where there is fear, let me be an example of courage and commitment.
Where there is no hope, make my life and my actions an example to others.
Where there is injustice and persecution help me to stand with those so
afflicted.
Where there is no vision, let me set an example of faith, expectation and
anticipation.
Warm African greetings,
Eddie Cross
Bulawayo, 20th June 2004".
Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Monday, June 21, 2004 at 17:47:26 (UTC)
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Sue
I guess I've got the same problem - my memory is playing tricks.
The Roman murals disappeared under maps of the Battle of Waterloo in March 1976, for the musical "Warlock", not for "Vamp!" ...
Barry Woodrow [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Reykjavik, Iceland
Monday, June 21, 2004 at 08:55:07 (UTC)
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Sue,
No, definitely no spell checker on this board; it's not that smart. Could be finger trouble... or the excuse you gave Barry. :)
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Monday, June 21, 2004 at 07:48:02 (UTC)
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Hi Barry
Yes - you're quite right - I am thinking of when I was 12 that would be 1962 or so.... sorry, got carried away again. Age! That's the only excuse I have - senility!
Craiiiiiiggg!
You know how much I like a tipple - but truuuelllly, reeeeeeeeeeellllyyy, truuuuuuuuely Paudie didn't. I thought perhaps it was a clever spell checker program correcting me. (No - I'm not blond - just getting greyer by the minute!)
Sue Coughlan (née Forde) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, WA, Australia
Monday, June 21, 2004 at 06:53:14 (UTC)
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Sue,
Perhaps you had better ask Paudie about the secret programme. Maybe he spiked your drink. :)
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Monday, June 21, 2004 at 06:35:19 (UTC)
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Sue
The Roman murals in the Kitwe Little Theatre coffee bar area were already there when I arrived, in early 1971, so definitely pre-dated "Romulaus and Remus". The figures were all caricatures of Nkana Kitwe Arts Society personalities - I recall that a number were unknown to me, so that probably dates the origin as several years prior to my arrival. Perhaps someone with earlier memories of NKAS than I can shed further light?
The murals were painted over with maps and plans of the Battle of Waterloo for the musical "Vamp!" in February 1975. The coffee bar was later completely remodelled when the whole bar area was rebuilt in mid-1977.
Barry Woodrow [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Reykjavik, Iceland
Monday, June 21, 2004 at 05:16:39 (UTC)
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... and what's a 'paintbrust'? Should have been 'paintbrush'. Then again, 'Or is R & R...' should have been 'Or was R & R...'
Sorry...
Sue Coughlan (née Forde) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, WA, Australia
Monday, June 21, 2004 at 02:16:17 (UTC)
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Sorry - errors - I didn't type 'house handing' - should have been 'hours hanging'.... is there a secret program or agenda I am not aware of Craig?
Sue Coughlan (née Forde) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, WA, Australia
Monday, June 21, 2004 at 01:10:47 (UTC)
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Arthur
Your usual standard and amazing consistency. Great to be able to read the text clearly - Ta!
Jon - fantastic fun-time memories. I noted lots of familiar names - especially the very famous Denis Liwewe as a Young Citizen and Chris Charalambides on the Drums...
Wasn't R & R the first production after the bar was painted with Roman debauchery? Or is R & R the excuse for painting the Little Theatre Bar with Roman debauchery?
I was only twelve at the time but I remember lots of house handing out at the Little Theatre where I held an enthusiastic paintbrust helping my parents Jack (bar duties) & Margret (costume & painting) Forde.
I think Chris was too young then but knowing him and Noel Daley - I wouldn't be at all surprised if they hid behind the bar drinking the dregs in the glasses... I know Chris did lighting later and Noel was in many shows.
Excellent days, fantastic memories - thank you!
Sue Coughlan (née Forde) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, WA, Australia
Monday, June 21, 2004 at 01:09:07 (UTC)
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Today, June 20th, was World Refugee day, and we held a wonderful party in Donegal Town to remind the community of this fact. The African asylum seekers in Donegal have put together a music and multicultural awareness group called the One Race Foundation, (ie there is only one race, the human race!), and provided a fantastic drumming and singing session. We all joined in the finale singing "Malaika", (please, does anyone on the GNR know the words in Swahili or any other language of Malaika, if they do please email me, as the fiddle player from "The Waterboys" would like to record the song with the group. I was asked to briefly outline my background, (how my Polish Grandparents, father and uncle arrived in Northern Rhodesia in l939 as refugees, and the difficulties they faced assimilating into a completely foreign society. ) I pointed out that language barriers were a huge problem with Eastern European refugees, as they are for say someone arriving in Ireland from the Congo, for whom French might be their third language, and their English is non existant. After my speech I was swamped by people who had lived and worked in Zambia, many in pretty remote areas, and was struck by the love they all had for their adopted country, all of them admitted pining for Africa, and longing to go back. We have launched a Failte (welcome) program whereby members of the local community meet asylum seekers and participate in a range of activities together. We hope that we have started something that will grow organically, and will to some degree tackle the ugly racism prevelent in this society.
Schoolbooks - can anyone resident in Zambia give me a contact who would be willing to distribute readers and primary English text books if we sent them to Zambia. I know there are projects for street children and the like, and I have a large box of English readers that I would hate to dump, it would be great to somehow get them to people who want them, any suggestions? Happy solstice to all of you. Megs
Meg Rybicki (formerly Margaret) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Mullanyduff, Co Leitrim, Ireland
Sunday, June 20, 2004 at 23:37:06 (UTC)
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Marg, Bob and Thelma,
My condolences on your loss. I will contact you via e-mail later today about placing an obituary, or you can simply go ahead now and follow the instructions at the bottom of the obituaries page.
Theatre Pictures, etc.
I have some original material here that was lent to me by Molly Bence while I was in Australia. Much of it is theatre related, but I just haven't had the opportunity to get to a scanner and scan all of it. Molly, I'll do it as soon as possible and post it here, and have the originals on their way back to you right away.
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Sunday, June 20, 2004 at 23:10:01 (UTC)
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Jon, Arthur
"Romulus & Remus" opened on 26 December 1971 and ran for two weeks. It was the first show that I stage-managed at NKAS. I still have the "crit" of this show from the "Times of Zambia", by "MEC" (Maggie Currey). Arthur, let me know if there's a copyright issue - if not I'll scan it and email it to you for posting.
I have several other NKAS programmes (and "Times" reviews) - I'll scan the programmes, and also the reviews if Arthur tells me these are out of copyright.
For those of you who may remember him, I had an email only a few days ago from the founder President of NKAS, Arthur Lewis M.B.E. He and Peggy are approaching 90 but still going strong in Australia.
Barry Woodrow [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Reykjavik, Iceland
Sunday, June 20, 2004 at 20:25:22 (UTC)
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Steve Tolan
This isn't what you were after but might conceivably be of interest -The Geology of Part of the Upper Luangwa Valley North-eastern Rhodesia.
Dixey F
Price: £ 6.25 throgh www.abebooks.com
Everyone
http://www.abebooks.com is an internet front end for book dealers all over the world with an excellent search system built in - a search for zambia as a keyword brought up 2735 matches! For Northern Rhodesia 1312. I have bought a few books through them and the system works very well.
Regards Ian
Ian Singer [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Livingston, West Lothian, Scotland
Sunday, June 20, 2004 at 19:57:10 (UTC)
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Northerners !
A few days ago I paid another visit to Peter Bennett's website in which he has narrated his journey from Cape Town to Cairo and I noticed that he has recently updated his website with a further collection of stunning photographs taken on his incredible solo journey through Africa, from bottom to top.
Peter has demonstrated a great professional skill both as a photographer and journalist, I recommend you all go and take a look at his work. I especially like the way he has captured his subjects in such a natural way, the photographs of the children are haunting, they are so different to our children in the "developed world".
Whilst in Africa Peter also did the Ethiopia - Napier Trek and the Great Ethiopian Run 2003.
While some of us may baulk at even visiting Zambia or South Africa, here is a man of great courage and determination who has set out on and completed a journey through the African continent, just one of many jouneys he has undertaken in Africa. A lifetime ambition which very few people would have contemplated making.
Congratulations and well done Peter.
Arthur
Steve Tolan
I have no doubt the very map you need is probably lying neglected and strewn on the floor of the old Rhokana Library.
A search on Google does not bring much, perhaps you might try and contact these people Omni Maps
Good luck.
Jilly,
Here's a photo of an original Chingola truck,
taken at Nchanga Open Pit.
From George Maxwell's collection in our photo archives.
Arthur
Used to really like going to the Little Kitwe Theater.
Here's a couple of scans of a program for the production of the "Legend Of Romulus & Remus" which I think must have been about '72 (?)
Ndola Theatre Club "Sinbad The Spaceman" program from Christmas 1969.
3 photos of the opening of the Itawa Primary School swimming pool in Ndola. I'm not sure when the date of this was now.
(Northerners, I have left these photos at their original size so that the faces can be picked out easily - Arthur)
A rather surprising TV line up for Friday the 13th. in April '73. Probably one of Jim Phelps' more difficult assignments
Regards -- Jon McCallumM
Jon, Syd, Michael,
Itawa Primary School is shown on the Ndola map near the airport - see our Maps Page. There is also a school shown where Syd described the location of Ndola Primary.
Jon - thanks for the contribution you have just made, also recognised a well known name here Barry Woodrow now in Iceland of all places.
Arthur Steevens [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stockport, United Kingdom
Sunday, June 20, 2004 at 19:38:51 (UTC)
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My grandmother May Hallet came to Africa as an infant in 1898 and was raised in Southen Rhodesia, she married in about 1908 and was widowed at a very young age with three children. She then met and married Norman Hallet and they went to Tanganikya were Norman had found work, they were returning to Southern Rhodesia when Norman got ill and they stopped in Kitwe where they had friends Reg and Nancy Dykes. That was in the late thirties maybe early forties I am not sure. However, Norman got a job on the mine and in time was in charge of the loco shop. They lived on 3rd Ave for a number of years before moving to Geddes Street. Later my Gran managed the Mine Flats at the top of Central Ave. Pat went to boarding school at St. George's. I think he did his apprentice ship as an electrician on the mine and for a number of years was one of the owners of Comet Electric before going back to work at Mindola Shaft. He married Beryl Trail in 1950 at the Catholic Church in Kitwe. Sharon, Michelle and Mark were all born in Kitwe - at the time they lived at the bottom of Westminster Drive just across the Kitwe Stream. They went to live in Salisbury in the late 60's early seventies. They lived in Marlborough and Pat had a very successful career with General Electric. In 1982 they/we lost Mark tragically in a motor vehicle accident. After Beryl's death last July Pat had gone to live with his daughter Michelle in Budapest. Shortly after that Pat was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, Sharon flew from LA to be with Pat and Michelle in December and again in the last few weeks. Pat leaves not only Sharon, Michelle and Brad but the Trails, the Maurers, the Charles's and numerous friends and relatives to mourn his passing. Marg de Lange.
Steven de Lange [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Langley, British Columbia, Canada
Saturday, June 19, 2004 at 23:43:59 (UTC)
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Glen
That's the famous old farmers trick when baboons are vandalizing his crops. The follow up is to pour a bucket of whitewash over the baboon and then break the pumpkin to release him. He will run screaming back to the rest of the pack who have been observing from the sidelines. The will get a hell of a fright seeing this white spook charging towards them and run for the hills. The faster they run the faster he chases and with a bit of luck they will all be out of your territory before they settle down. This will then be the nieghbours problem.
I wonder if it would work with soccer hooligans?
Baboons cause a lot of damage to crops especialy mealies. They will start at the end of the row, and pick a mealie first with one hand then the other. He then then puts these mealies under his armpits to hold them while he proceeds along the line to pick some more. The problem is as he lifts his arm to get the next mealie the one under his arm falls to the ground. This procedure is continued all along the row until the baboon sits and eats 2 or 3 mealies and leaves a couple of hundred to rot on the ground. Whenever I see a cartoon of Bugs Bunny and Elmer Fudd I think what a nice cartoon they could have made with baboons.
Steve Tolan
Welcome to GNR. I have read your profile. I am quite suprised that you should have retired from the Oxford police and have gone to a remote part of Zambia. Sorry I can't help with the geological map. There may be all kinds of interesting minerals lying undiscovered in the Luangwa valley apart from the oil that's rumoured to be there.
We all laughed at the chap who said he had found emeralds near Kalulushi but it is now big business. My sister-in-law has a square kilometre claim where she gets some emeralds but hasn't hit the quality stones yet.
My brother-in-law in the Chinsali area has found a supply of amber in one vlei near to him. He also has some sort of a gold claim where he digs out a bit whenever he needs some cash but he is too lazy to develop it commercialy.
Another thing is industrial minerals e.g. talk, ball clay, china clay etc. Also bat guano which can be found in great quantities in caves in the North West province.
In Zambia there is always that magic chance of finding that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow or the elephants graveyard piled high with tusks. At least that's the perception. Not many find it.
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Saturday, June 19, 2004 at 21:17:48 (UTC)
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Michael & Jonathan,
Ndola Primary School was on Queen Mary Ave/Park Row/St Andrews Road. The forth end of the school was near Cecil Ave, but there were builbings between it and the road. Itawa Primary School was in Itawa on Borrowdale Cres. I went to Ndola Primary School from standed 3 in 1956 to standed 5 then on to Llewellin High where I was a royal pain in the rear for most of the staff until I left after doing my C.O.P. exam, in which I did not do too badly. Left Ndola to go into the Rhodesian Army where I was an even bigger pain to the extent that they asked me to please go away (using army speak). The big joke of it all is that I was later to be a policeman in Bristol in England.
Syd
Donald Sydney [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Bristol, Avon, United Kingdom
Saturday, June 19, 2004 at 20:28:09 (UTC)
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Dear Craig Hartnett
Once again would you please place an obituary in this programme for us.
Pat Hallett (widower of Beryl Hallett) passed away this
Saturday morning 19th June
A loving father,brother-in-law and friend Anybody wishing to convey condolences to thier daughters Sharon and Michelle e.mail address is mish_hu@yahoo.ie
Thank you so much Bob and Thelma Trail.
Robert Trail [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Waterfalls, K.Z.N., South Africa
Saturday, June 19, 2004 at 20:13:49 (UTC)
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Doug - I'm not sure that baboons are particularly clever. They're more like the politicians who live close by. Everyone knows how to catch a baby baboon of course. The only difference in catching a politician is that one uses money in public coffer instead of pumpkin pips in a pumpkin.
Well Doug, granted that you know how it is done, but I hear some other GNR's say "Oh really?." So, for their benefit allow me to tell them how to catch baby baboons . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
In a large pumpkin, one weighing 2 or 3 kilo's or more, cut a hole of about an inch and a half wide, right where the stem comes out. At late evening drinking times on the river banks, where the baboons traditionally come down for their sundowner sups of muddy water, place the pumpkin halfway between the bush and the edge of the river. The baby baboon will put his hand into the pumpkin and grab as many pips as he can and as he does that, you jump up out of the bush and run screaming towards the baby. The other baboons scatter, but the baby, being greedy and not knowing any better (like the politician and the money) refuses to let those pips go, panics and can't pull his fist out of the pumpkin. Of course he's too small to run away carrying the heavy pumpkin - unlike the politician who can lie and and is a lot more difficult to catch in the act. You just grab the baby baboon "with his hand in the pumpkin" so to speak .
Think I'm joking? Think again . . . . . . . . . . .
Glen Drake [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
California, United States
Saturday, June 19, 2004 at 17:02:23 (UTC)
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I live in Mfuwe opposite South luangwa National Park. I am very interested in archaeology and geology.
I desperately need copy of the Drysdall/Weller geological map of South Luangwa National Park. Any offers?
Many thanks, Steve TOLAN, Chipembele Wildlife Education Centre.
Stephen Tolan [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Mfuwe, Zambia
Saturday, June 19, 2004 at 14:28:50 (UTC)
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Thanks Bill,
I see your home is in UK. Are you visiting Durbs at the moment?
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Saturday, June 19, 2004 at 11:59:01 (UTC)
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Doug,
What you said about the baboons at Mclwane is true I also have seen them, and I have read about the baboon changing the points.
If you come to Durbs call me 0722908409.
Bill
Billy Laing [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stevenage, United Kingdom
Saturday, June 19, 2004 at 11:19:45 (UTC)
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Robert Summers
Sorry Bob, it was me who started that subject, Chris was merely responding.
I was listening on the radio today and caught the tail end of a story about a baboon who into the 1890's was trained by a lazy railwayman to change the points. It was on one of Roger Webster's fireside chats. I will try and find out more. Did anyone else hear this story or know any more about it.
Baboons are very clever. There was a chap at Lake Macilwane (spl?) near Salisbury who in the early 60's built a small racetrack fenced by bush sticks. For a small charge he would release a bunch of wart hogs from the kraal on the side and with his stick get them racing around the track. His babons would jump onto the wart hogs backs and ride them like jockeys. I assure you this is a true story. Did any of our other members ever see this?
Philip
If you pass through Vryheid on your way home tomorrow stop in at Harry's Grill and ask them to call me. It is in the centre of town next to the Mercedes agency.
Cheers - Doug
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Saturday, June 19, 2004 at 09:54:50 (UTC)
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Hi,
I heard this question on Radio 702 on thursday..
"If baby sheep are called lambs and baby goats are called kids, what are baby apes or monkeys called?"
I thought the reply from the show host was very good.- "Clingons".
Going to Phalaborwa area later todey - after the match (I don't thing I am allowed to mention the "R" word. Phalaborwa is on the edge of Kruger National Park and has a huge open pit copper mine - always reminds me of visits to Chingola when I was younger - Those enormous trucks that carry the ore absolutely fascinate me - their tyres are two-men tall!
Have a good weekend, all
Jill Aplin [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
South Africa
Saturday, June 19, 2004 at 07:27:27 (UTC)
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Jeepers , I am offline( due to the wonderful system here, see tis not only the 3rd world countries that have probs with their internet connections) . for less than 24 hours....and..........I see the negative ones are displaying their feathers again ............eeeeek
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Saturday, June 19, 2004 at 06:27:53 (UTC)
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Well put, Bob!
Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Saturday, June 19, 2004 at 04:05:52 (UTC)
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Chris, what the heck has Tony Blair and steel mills got to do with the price of mealies on the GNR.
I suggest a letter to the New York Times would be appropriate, thereby giving us all a break.
By the way, not all of us "learned in college", and most of us have prospered despite that.
This will probably get someone wound up when the opposite would be welcome, like deep thoughts on NR/Zambia, or not so deep, for which the Road was formed. The Times, Wall St. Journal or the Daily Worker are available for all points of view, although they all employ editors to vet contributions. Pity.
Robert Summers [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Dayton, Ohio, United States
Saturday, June 19, 2004 at 03:34:18 (UTC)
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Doug, pressing the issue:
As Chris rightly says it is our Government's job to look after our national interests. However Mittal got Tony Blair running as his errand boy to facilitate his purchase of steel mills in eastern Europe, no doubt by a multi-million donation to to the labour party's funds, so what chance do our bent politicians have against such economic power.
Always, as per normal, the problems in Africa are laid at the feet of the G8, but now the financial tycoons have been thrown into the equation as well.
Remember the problem solving method we learned at college?
1> What is the apparent problem
2> What is the real problem
3> What are the alternatives
4> Which is the best alternative
5> Implement
Doug, I am afraid you are tinkering with the "Apparent" problem. The real problem is right under your nose, and you are really not taking it into account.
Selling Iscor to LMN was a matter for the Govt to decide. If you wish to criticise that decision, go ahead, but don't blame the buyer. He saw the opportunity and took it, taking on huge risks. Now he is improving the company, as any descent CEO should, and he still takes a beating from the public.
In the final analysis, it is economics that rule. Politicians frequently get in the way, but Africa has a particularly graphic track record of that.
Back to Ndola Primary School, and Vryheid Vis and Skyfies (Is that spelling a little better?)
Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Saturday, June 19, 2004 at 00:46:46 (UTC)
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Hi Michael, Itawa was part of Ndola towards the airport so it may have also been referred to as Ndola Primary, I’m not sure.
I can’t put many names to the faces in the photo and not many to the staff either, but if I’m not mistaken, the boy to your left was Keith Buck. I’m on the same row as you, third from the right.
‘Best Jon McCallum
Jonathan McCallum [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Fayetteville, Arkansas, United States
Friday, June 18, 2004 at 23:23:45 (UTC)
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Ayub
You have hit the nail on the head. He multiplied his wealth more than 2.5 times in one year, while the world economy was in the doldrums. Something fishy there.
I think that we had better fold this subject now as it is not very germane, but Chris is so quick to criticise the economics of African countries, that I thought this was a perfect example of how they are plundered.
As Chris rightly says it is our Government's job to look after our national interests. However Mittal got Tony Blair running as his errand boy to facilitate his purchase of steel mills in eastern Europe, no doubt by a multi-million donation to to the labour party's funds, so what chance do our bent politicians have against such economic power.
Steal a million and you get sent to jail. Steal a billion and you will get knighted.
Funny world!
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Friday, June 18, 2004 at 21:54:12 (UTC)
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Hi Doug and All,
I am still around but on leave up in Jo'burg. I will be home on Sunday the 20th.
I am putting together a story about the death of Mr. Ted Ball who owned a trading stall North of Kitwe.
Ted was Robert Balls father and Robert and My brother Arnold were very good mates.
If anyone out there can help me with any background information please e-mail me.
I arrived at the scene just after he was taken to hospital.
Cheers
Philip Pain [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Eshowe, Kwazulu Natal, South Africa
Friday, June 18, 2004 at 21:33:54 (UTC)
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Hi Jon
Looking at the photos posted on 16th/17th. One is a school photo of Itawa school, I do not remember going to this school, I remember Ndola primary and if this is so I am the person second row down and forth from the left.
Michael Laatz [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Littlehampton, West Sussex, United Kingdom
Friday, June 18, 2004 at 19:28:24 (UTC)
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Doug/Chris
According to "Eastern Eye's" Richest UK Asian List,
Mr Lakshmi Mittal is the UK's richest Asian ...having increased his wealth from £1.3billion in 2003 to a staggering £3.5 billion in 2004!! What mesmerises me is why should he be offering millions of Rupees to Bolywood Actors and Actresses to attend his Child's wedding, when a man of such wealth (and I assume power) should have these folk falling at his feet and coming for free!! The wedding is being held in Paris with the wedding invitation comprising of about 30 pages! Apparently he has a new " Image" manager who wants him to polish up on his image and become more "visible"!
Although I am not too certain about this..is this the same man who made a killing out of the Iran/Iraq War? Or was it someone else?
It won't be long before he is Knighted by our beloved Queen!
Ayub Ismail Zumla [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Manchester, United Kingdom
Friday, June 18, 2004 at 18:54:18 (UTC)
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Punny Doug:
On top of this he is 7 foot tall and 6 foot wide, so I would have to think carefully before approaching him with pineapple with evil intentions, as it might well backfire.
What a terrible picture you have painted in my mind!
Ag sees tog
Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Friday, June 18, 2004 at 18:50:10 (UTC)
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Chris
I always feel the "law" has very little to do with justice and more to do with enriching the legal fraternity. There is a basic law of natural justice in every human beings heart. Why do most people feel revolted when they spill blood, human or animal, for the first time. Why do many people cry after shooting their first Elephant.
The proposed fornicee enriched himself by throwing 36, 000 people out of work. We used to have cheap steel in RSA. Now the price has gone through the roof. This has not benefited our nation. I agree with you that the government should have prevented it, but we have plenty of pineapples in Natal for all of them.
As for Oom Japie of Vryheid vis en skyfies, he has earned his just rewards by creating employment with his lekker establishment. On top of this he is 7 foot tall and 6 foot wide, so I would have to think carefully before approaching him with pineapple with evil intentions, as it might well backfire.
Cheers - Doug
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Friday, June 18, 2004 at 18:24:02 (UTC)
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Doug writes:
Chris
Even if Lmn (Lucksmi Mittel) did not break any laws I think he richly deserves to be fornicated with the rough end of a pineapple. I am delighted that the US courts are now jailing some of the corporate vampires from Enron etc.
But you don't say why? The only reason why the Enron chaps are going behind bars is precisely because they broke the law(s).
I certainly hope that when the owner of Hoofstraat Fis en Skyvvies cruises around Vryheid in his Mercedes Benz limousine, that you don't get the same urge.
Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Friday, June 18, 2004 at 17:39:33 (UTC)
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Hi Tony, Really glad you enjoyed the Ndola theater programs. I’ve scanned one for "Sinbad the Spaceman" from 1969 and see your name listed there also. I remember we had an email chat some time ago. We weren’t involved with the theatre but we lived next to the Ingers who were, we enjoyed going to the shows.
Hi Doug, I do have a few more Kasaba Bay photos but not many, I'm afraid. I will send those along shortly.
Interesting you rebuilt the resort. Though I was very young at the time, I remember during our stay there, and fairly early one morning, a strange knock on the door of the chalet we were in woke us up. My dad answered the door then quickly shut it again. My mum said, "Who is it, dear"? And my dad said, "It's the backside of a hippo". My mum got up to go over, "That really can't be. Is it really?" and he opened the door for her to have a quick peep out, "My word," she said, "that really is a hippo, what you think it wants?" Well, we were very late getting to the lodge for breakfast as the hippo was rather leisurely with its morning ritual. At the lodge, my parents inquired if it was common to receive wake up calls from hippos. As it turned out the hippos often liked to come out of the lake and scratch themselves along the rough wood of the chalets.
‘Best – Jon McCallum
Jonathan McCallum [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Fayetteville, Arkansas, United States
Friday, June 18, 2004 at 17:01:04 (UTC)
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The eternal love match: Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder playing tennis.
Why does Stevie Wonder have a yellow leg?
His dog's blind as well.
Doctor to dumb blonde, " You're pregnant"
Dumb blonde," You sure it's mine?"
Ken Fernie [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Irvine, California, United States
Friday, June 18, 2004 at 13:35:30 (UTC)
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For the Friday smilers you may have seen a couple of them before but read them all Johnny.
1. Two blondes walk into a building..........you'd think at least one of them would have seen it.
2. Phone answering machine message - "...If you want to buy marijuana, press the hash key..."
3. A guy walks into the psychiatrist wearing only Clingfilm for shorts. The shrink says, "Well, I can clearly see you're nuts."
4. I went to buy some camouflage trousers the other day but I couldn't find any.
5. I went to the butchers the other day and I bet him 50 quid that he couldn't reach the meat off the top shelf. He said, "No, the steaks are too high."
6. My friend drowned in a bowl of muesli. A strong currant pulled him in.
7. A man came round in hospital after a serious accident. He shouted, "Doctor, doctor, I can't feel my legs!" The doctor replied, "I know you can't, I've cut your arms off".
8. I went to a seafood disco last week...and pulled a muscle.
9. Two Eskimos sitting in a kayak were chilly. They lit a fire in the craft, it sank, proving once and for all that you can't have your kayak and heat it.
10. Our ice cream man was found lying on the floor of his van covered with hundreds and thousands. Police say that he topped himself.
11. Man goes to the doctor, with a strawberry growing out of his head. Doc says "I'll give you some cream to put on it."
12. 'Doc I can't stop singing The Green, Green Grass of Home' "That sounds like Tom Jones syndrome. ' Is it common? ' "It's not unusual."
13. A man takes his Rotteweiller to the vet. "My dog's cross-eyed, is there anything you can do for him?" "Well," says the vet, "let's have a look at him" So he picks the dog up and examines his eyes, then checks his teeth. Finally, he says, "I'm going to have to put him down." "What? Because he's cross-eyed? ""No, because he's really heavy"
14. Guy goes into the doctor's. "Doc, I've got a cricket ball stuck up my backside." "How's that?" "Don't you start."
15. Two elephants walk off a cliff...boom, boom!
16. What do you call a fish with no eyes? A fsh.
17. So I was getting into my car, and this bloke says to me "Can you give me a lift?" I said "Sure, you look great, the world's your oyster, go for it.'
18. Apparently, 1 in 5 people in the world are Chinese. There are 5 people in my family, so it must be one of them. It's either my mum or my Dad, or my older Brother Colin, or my younger Brother Ho-Cha-Chu? But I think its Colin.
19. Two fat blokes in a pub, one says to the other "Your round." The other one says "So are you, you fat bast**d!"
20. Police arrested two kids yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, and the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off.
21. "You know, somebody actually complimented me on my driving today. They left a little note on the windscreen. It said, 'Parking Fine.' So that was nice."
22. A man walked into the doctors, he said, "I've hurt my arm in several places" The doctor said, "Well don't go there anymore"
23. Ireland's worst air disaster occurred early this morning when a small >two-seater Cessna plane crashed into a cemetery. Irish search and rescue workers have recovered 1826 bodies so far and expect that number to climb as digging continues into the night
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Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Friday, June 18, 2004 at 11:37:22 (UTC)
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Ali
Thanks so much for the "eclipse", Loved it - it was perfect.
Madeleine
Madeleine Luckin (née Bekker) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Johannesburg, South Africa
Friday, June 18, 2004 at 05:58:56 (UTC)
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Bob,
Not much chance I'll be reading a book in Hooters. Certain items of clothing worn by the waitresses maybe.
Johnny,
So sorry you didn't know about Hooters before. There's all you need to know at www.hooters.com, www.originalhooters.com and, if you're lucky, one day Hooters Air (www.hootersair.com) might fly your way. In the meantime you might want to take a train trip to Nottingham to get your fill. There's also a Hooters in Birmingham listed on the Original Hooters site.
OK, we can drop the Hooters stuff and deal with more german (rhymes with mundane) stuff now. :)
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Friday, June 18, 2004 at 03:39:37 (UTC)
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Robert Summers,
I too will be ordering a copy for myself.......thanks for your review
Ali
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Friday, June 18, 2004 at 03:23:41 (UTC)
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CATHRINE NELSON
Pleased you agreed with my conclusions and liked the Alexandra Fuller book. Your description was so much better than mine, but we both arrived together.
DOUG GREWAR
I hope you have a better experience with the "Cat" after your disappointment with the "Dogs".
CRAIG HARTNETT
Enjoy, and a great book to read in Hooters.
Robert Summers [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Dayton, Ohio, United States
Friday, June 18, 2004 at 03:07:17 (UTC)
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well well...........
*Donkeys' origins revealed*
Domesticated donkeys, like Homo sapiens, came from Africa, according to a study published in the US journal Science.
An international team of scientists compared DNA signatures from 427 farm donkeys from 52 countries with that of wild donkey populations in south-west Asia and east Africa.
By compiling a genetic family tree, they found that the likely ancestors of domestic donkeys today were two populations of African wild asses that, like horses, were tamed about 5,000 years ago.
That concurs with sketchy archaeological evidence from Egypt which provides the first known signs of when these animals were first used by man.
Domestication of these beasts were a watershed in human development, marking the moment when mankind moved away from the nomadic lifestyle to a fixed, agrarian one.
The study was co-led by Pierre Taberlet of France's National Centre for Scientific Research (CNRS).
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Friday, June 18, 2004 at 02:34:21 (UTC)
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Hi Jon
Thanks for the great photos. I remember it well as I did the lighting and my wife, Cheryl, did costumes, make-up and was also a dancer. Lowenthal was a large part of our life!!!
Cheers ...
Tony Austin [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Houston, Texas, United States
Friday, June 18, 2004 at 02:16:18 (UTC)
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Ha, ha.
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Friday, June 18, 2004 at 01:33:26 (UTC)
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Hi all,
I always think of eclipses as rather fantastic, however the last week or so the transit of Venus was on show in our skies (Venus crossing in the path of the sun) and one of the photos taken was mind boggling.....here is the link
http://www.csiro.au/helix/transit/images/gallery/cinque.jpg
can anyone explain ???
Ali
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Friday, June 18, 2004 at 01:26:57 (UTC)
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The Comrades Marathon must have been a spectacular event (even for those watching it on TV!). Running regular marathons is such a thrilling experience for me. I can only imagine how it must feel to run ultra-marathons – its like running 2 marathons back to back. Truly the folks that run these ultra-marathons are people to be admired in every way.
Noreen D'Cruz [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Toronto, Canada
Thursday, June 17, 2004 at 23:02:13 (UTC)
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Bob Summers
Re Alex Fuller's new book. I wasn't impressed with her previous ones, but as you say this one is better I have ordered it.
Jon McCallum
Thanks for the Kasaba Bay photos. If you have any more please post them. I rebuilt the resort in the 70's.
Barry Robbins
Welcome to the GNR. You are the latest in a long line who have been astonished to find old friends through the GNR. Thanks yet again to our founder Dave Cooper, and to our politburo; Arthur, Craig and Heather (that is in alphabetic order, before Heather swats me).
Chris
Even if Lmn (Lucksmi Mittel) did not break any laws I think he richly deserves to be fornicated with the rough end of a pineapple. I am delighted that the US courts are now jailing some of the corporate vampires from Enron etc.
Almal and everyone,
Our annual Comrades Marathon was run uphill this year from Durban to Pietermaritzburg. The winner once again for the third time was the Russian Vladimir Kotov who is now a South African resident. On top of his winnings for being first he was eligable to receive a 25 ounce solid gold figurine valued at R64, 000 for being the first South African person to finish the race. In a very sporting gesture he handed this on to Willie Mtolo who came in forth. Vladimir said as he had only been a South African resident for 6 months he felt the prize should go to a citizen. He has probably earned himself more than a million Rand value in goodwill and respect for this action.
The next event is the south coast sardine run, the greatest shoal on earth. Multi-millions of sardines swarm up the south coast of Natal, chased by dolphins, sharks etc. Chish and fips is on the menu for everyone. Boiled sardine, fried sardine, braai'd sardine, biltong sardine. Ag nee, kak man! I don't even like fish. Where the pap en wors?
Bill Hunt
Tell us more about the sardine run. You live down that way.
Philip Pain
Wassup? All quiet on the southern front?
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Thursday, June 17, 2004 at 20:59:03 (UTC)
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Craig you have kept the hooters very much to yourself I had never heard of them until you and Peter were dicussing the place are they peculiar only to Canada I have never heard of them here worse luck, but in my diary it now says win lottery, then see hooters and die, you lucky man Johnny.
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Thursday, June 17, 2004 at 19:32:01 (UTC)
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I heartily concur with Bob Summers' review of Alexandra Fuller's "Scribbling the Cat".
I too wondered, and worried, if Ms. Fuller was a one-book wonder. But all fears were dashed after I read the Cat. I also could not put it down and resented time away from it.
She is a master at using few words to clearly describe the scene, be it of people, places or things. She carefully choses fresh and original language and hits the mark every time. For those who remember the smells and feel of Zambia, this book will have you buying a ticket 'home' in the near future.
Although her Zambia and mine are divided by more than 30 years, and I had no personal involvement with Zimbabwe's war, I recognize every inch of everything she presents on her pages. By fantastically capturing reality she has hit on the core of the place and its people.
Regards, Cathy
Cathrine Nelson [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Washington, DC, United States
Thursday, June 17, 2004 at 17:49:57 (UTC)
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Johnny
I love your little blonde friend in the underwear. My but she has a lot of body hair. Are you thinking of starting a restaurant chain in competition with Hooters? You could call it Baa-ters and it would remind you nostalgically of the Zambian Shoe Stores.
Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Thursday, June 17, 2004 at 17:21:32 (UTC)
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Barry,
Thanks very much for recounting that. Excellent story.
Peter,
Thanks for the address of the fountain pen shop.
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Thursday, June 17, 2004 at 17:17:11 (UTC)
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Alix I agree with you but lets hope that they step on one of there own mines, the correct terminology is to put Mugs on top of a landmine not underneath one love Johnny.x
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Thursday, June 17, 2004 at 15:48:02 (UTC)
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THE LOWEST OF THE LOW
LANDMINES USED TO KILL HIPPO - June 17, 2004
Finding themselves severely understaffed and unable to cope with the high levels of poaching, National Parks enlisted the assistance of the army and airforce in an effort to protect the dwindling wildlife population.
It has now been reported that the army personnel have been illegally netting fish from the Zambezi River in Binga but the hippos in the river have been making life very difficult for them. They have been interfering with their carefully laid nets and thwarting their efforts to net fish.
They have, however found a solution to the problem. They have been laying anti-personnel landmines along the river bank and when the unsuspecting hippos come out of the water to browse, they are blown to smithereens if they are unfortunate enough to step on one of the mines.
In a country where the rule of law no longer applies, there is little point in reporting this disgusting behaviour to the authorities when the perpetrators are the authorities themselves.
When will someone put mugabe under a landmine!!!
Ali
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Thursday, June 17, 2004 at 13:13:33 (UTC)
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Seeing Jon McCallum’s recent submission and fantastic pictures from Ndola has finally spurred me to contribute to the message board (I have been meaning to for well over a year - honest!).
Both Jon and I grew up in Ndola in the 60’s and early 70’s – and both attended Itawa Primary School there.
So how did I (now living in the south of England) meet up again with Jon (residing in Arkansas in the US) after about 30 years? Well, you know the answer: we both coincidentally registered on GNR about the same time early in 2003 and barely had my name been added to the list than I received a ‘remember me?’ email from Jon via GNR. Jon and I had been great friends at Itawa before boarding schools and finally our departure from Zambia meant we sadly lost touch.
Finding GNR was wonderful and I wasn’t prepared for the deluge of memories that came flooding back – especially when Jon and I decided we couldn’t type fast enough in our online chat discussions – and needed to SPEAK to one another. There followed a telephone conversation (“Is that you, Barry?”) which lasted – I kid you not – 5 ¼ hours! Of course it only seemed like a 20 minute chat as the memory floodgates had burst, but sure enough – it was Jon (albeit with an unfamiliar American accent)…
We soon realized we had a fair bit in common – except that Jon’s line of work was a little more glamorous than mine - I have been a corporate suit for the last 20 years working for an American Bank in the UK, while Jon has made a respectable living in the movies business in the US primarily as a film soundtrack composer but turning his hand to various things like special effects makeup (blood ‘n’ guts stuff), film editing, design, directing, etc. The list of people he has met and worked with is quite impressive. He tells some fabulous stories!
As kids we played with tape recorders and acted out stuff from favourite TV programmes of the time (Land of the Giants, Star Trek, the Invaders and various other mainly US stuff shown on TVZ at the time). Later in life I got involved in hospital radio, sound recording and amateur dramatics and have appeared in several short films shot by Film School graduates from our local university. Meanwhile, Jonathan was lucky enough to go to Film School in LA in his late teens and got involved in the business fairly early on and because of his talent has been kept busy ever since.
In the early months of our re-acquaintance I was in rehearsals for a play that my local drama group was performing locally and Jon followed our progress with interest via our regular internet chats. Later in the year I told him that I’d be directing a play and again he expressed interest and was eager to hear how preparations were going for the play. That is, until about 10 days before the play - suddenly communication with Jon fell silent. Strange, but I was so immersed in the trials and tribulations of producing a very challenging play (incidentally requiring the construction of two two-story houses on stage!) that I soon forgot about it. Until, one evening on the second night of our play’s run, I was meeting and greeting audience members and showing them to seats, when a tall, vaguely familiar person was stood by the ticket desk staring at me. Then, in an American accent the person said, “Is that the Ndolan Director?”
My God! It was Jon! Although it took a while for me to work it out and to get over the shock of seeing him in the flesh for the first time in 30 years – it was him! Very craftily, he’d been planning a trip to see his parents in north Wales and had gleaned sufficient information from me to work out when the play was on and where it would be performed. The crafty blighter had decided to surprise me – and after a very impressive journey by plane, train, bus and taxi had rolled up at the theatre to buy a ticket for the show! He stayed around for the next few days which gave us a wonderful opportunity to reminisce some more.
Since then, through Jon’s contacts in the business, I have been lucky enough to even work with him on some projects from my small ‘studio’ at home (and thanks to the wonders of the internet) – providing the voice-over for a US TV commercial, and most recently providing the narration and doing some interviewing for a soon to be released US documentary on the history of the Samurai (to tie in with the recent Tom Cruise movie).
To sum up, it’s been great to have tracked him down and to have rekindled that friendship after all those years! Thanks GNR.
Thinking back, my sudden interest in my African childhood was probably stirred by my transition to the wrong side of 40 last year and a strong desire to return to my country of birth (I’ve always been proud of the fact that I was born in Zambia – or Northern Rhodesia as my Birth Certificate confirms).
I have a wonderful family – my wife Caroline, and three children: Hannah (16), Katharine (14) and Oliver (11) – and last year I decided that it was time I went back to Africa and showed them all a bit of the magic of that continent. We visited South Africa first, staying with a super Aunt & Uncle of mine and visited the Kruger amongst other things. To finish off the holiday, we then flew up to Livingstone and spent 4 days at the Zambezi Sun by the Falls (sadly this was booked long before details of last year’s Lark was published – so we didn’t make that) and had a fantastic time. I was of course sorely tempted to return to Ndola – but the fact that there were 5 of us meant that it would be pretty expensive and I’m sure that it would not have been as interesting for the family to see the inevitably run down haunts of my youth. However, I shall return one day.
We found the people in Zambia to be so warm and friendly and always smiling. I took loads of pictures but noted that many of those submitted to GNR after the Lark were very similar to mine (we did the African Queen, the wonderful Elephant Safari and I did the Microlight trip, amongst other jaunts). If you haven’t been back to Zambia for a while – you really should go!
I have just realized that this submission has been pretty long and rambling – so apologies for that! I shall try and participate more frequently and will dig out some photos to submit. I’ll also tell you about another great friend of mine – Nigel Penny – who I also tracked down via GNR and who now lives in the UK - and my parents (Elizabeth & David) and two older brothers, Richard and Tony.
Take care all!
Barry Robbins
Barry Robbins [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Fordingbridge, Hampshire, United Kingdom
Thursday, June 17, 2004 at 09:52:34 (UTC)
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Peter and Craig @ Hooters in Vancouver
By popular demand....
Not the most attractive waitress at Hooters.
Peter enjoyed lunch.
Definitely not the most attractive waitress at Hooters.
Sucking in my gut.
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Thursday, June 17, 2004 at 08:25:01 (UTC)
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Bob,
Thanks very much for that review. I have heard good things about this book too, and your review has convinced me I need to get it.
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Thursday, June 17, 2004 at 07:02:08 (UTC)
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Recent Site Updates:
June 17th, 2004:- Added an excellent new road map of the Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasaland to the maps page. Thanks very much to Arthur Steevens for purchasing this map for the GNR.
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Thursday, June 17, 2004 at 06:54:07 (UTC)
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The picture for Ian has only been displayed a very short time and allready I have recieved about 50 EMs from Australia / New Zealand asking if I know where the under wear shown in the picture can be purchased, I do not know but I can only guess the company manufacturing the garments is making a fortne. Johnny.
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Thursday, June 17, 2004 at 05:29:35 (UTC)
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This contribution began when I read a book review in the local paper. I thought about sending it on to the Road. However, after an exchange with Craig I became convinced if we were both to stay out of various courts, from the States, Canada and Zambia on copyright violations, and having already read the book, I would write my impressions. So, with apologies to all professional book reviewers, here goes . . .
It was with some apprehension when I began to read Alexandra Fuller's new book, "Scribbling the Cat", published by Penguin Press.
Second books are often a disappointment, but happily that was not the case here. In fact, it is better than "Dogs".
The book describes the author's trip by road from Zambia and Zimbabwe to Mozambique in the company of an ex-Rhodesian soldier. Their visits to places and friends from his checkered past make great reading. Although her companion is only referred to as "K", anyone who lived through or close to the Rhodesian war has known or at least met him or his type.
The writer spares nobody's feelings in the language used, but nobody is left out, including Englishmen, Africans, Afrikaners and Rhodesians when using the slang of the day. The glossary proved invaluable, and I, for one, had no idea to scribble is to kill. I thank the author for its inclusion.
As the journey nears its end, an old wartime friend, Mapenga, is introduced. The antics and the "when we" stories they then get into, alone makes this book worth the cost.
I so thoroughly enjoyed this book i was sorry to reach the end, a sure sign it's on my "highly recommended" list to my friends. I don't think they will be disappointed.
To conclude, I can't wait for Alexandra Fuller's next book, and with a lot less apprehension from now on.
_Bob Summers.
Robert Summers [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Dayton, Ohio, United States
Thursday, June 17, 2004 at 03:02:00 (UTC)
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Northerners !
Ian Springer in his update says he wondered why the Aussie's / New Zealanders took the sheep with them, can you fw this to him to enlighten him why
Johnny
Roy and Lyn, 6 kids and partners and 13 grandchildren at the lake, Aug 2001
Roy and Lyn April 2004
Roy and Lyn Howell on holidays in the Cayman Islands,April 2004
My mom has kept some detailed albums on Ndola around '68 to 74, which I love to look through when I'm back in Wales. Last time there, I scanned some of the old Ndola and Kitwe theater programs and was wondering if you would be interested in those for the site. Also some photos of Itawa School in Ndola and various newspaper cuttings from the Times of Zambia.
Ndola Theatre "The Gondoliers" Program.
Some Ndola stuff from the late 60's to early 70's. Also two photos from Kasaba Bay
Regards -- Jon McCallum
Thanks again to the contributors
Dave Gray
Here's wishing you all the very best on your retirement. Obviously you will now have plenty of time on your hands to try out that new scanner of yours.
Cheers !
Arthur
Arthur Steevens [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stockport, United Kingdom
Wednesday, June 16, 2004 at 21:35:31 (UTC)
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This is for all of you who like a smile none smilers just skip it.
A man was in an accident and his penis was chopped off. He was rushed to the hospital where the doctor examined him, and after careful examination said, "We can replace it with a small size for £2,000, a medium size for £5,000, or an extra-large size for £10,000. I realise it's a lot of money, so take your time and talk it over with your wife"
>
>When the doctor came back into the room he found the man staring sadly at the floor. "We've reached a decision." the man told him as he choked back tears. "My wife says she'd rather have a new kitchen."
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Wednesday, June 16, 2004 at 21:34:19 (UTC)
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Craig...
That fountain pen shop is at 560 Hastings next door to the Delta Suites hotel...
Chris...
Yesterday was a practice run at Hooters. On July 8 I'll be in Hawaii - come-on Hooters!!!!
Peter Dielissen [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
Wednesday, June 16, 2004 at 21:14:01 (UTC)
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Craig,
I heard, on good authority, that it was Robert Gabriel Mugsy who invented the internet? Oh well.
Perhaps you and Yukon Petros don't think you got in to any difficulties at Hooters. The rest of us will keep our eyes and ears peeled in the BC media. Something is bound to have been broken, somewhere.
The dreaded Yukon Pete is heading south for Honolulu soon. Hooters are on standby - he has been there before!
Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Wednesday, June 16, 2004 at 18:43:49 (UTC)
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Peter,
Will post those photographs later today. Maybe we didn't get into trouble, but it would have been nice to. :)
Berners-Lee, the Internet and the Web
Just a small technical point here from a technical (some say anal) person. Many people fail to realise that the World Wide Web is not the Internet and the Internet is not the Web. The Web is just a subset of the Internet based on one of the Internet's protocols. Other subsets of the Internet with which you may be familiar are electronic mail (more commonly known as e-mail), newsgroups, file transfer protocol (FTP), instant messaging, and so on. These all rely on standardised protocols in order to work -- for example, the Web uses the hypertext transfer protocol (HTTP). Sometimes these subsets intersect -- for example, when the Web and e-mail subsets intersect, you get Web-based e-mail (or "webmail" as many call it).
So, Peter and Charles, you are correct that the Internet was around long before Berners-Lee, but he only "invented" the Web, not the Internet. As Peter pointed out, it was Al Gore that invented the Internet... as well as the telephone, electricity, cars and the aeroplane.
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Wednesday, June 16, 2004 at 17:20:01 (UTC)
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Ja Kerry. However - they dribble before they shoot.
Peter D.... I concur -- the Internet, under various guises, was DEFINITELY around well before 1991 amongst Universities! I suppose Berners-Lee opened it up to the public. Does that justify a reward of $1.7m built on the foundation laid by others?
Johnny G... I apologise for pre-empting your retort to Kerry’s joke -- but!!!.
Regards
Charles Cartmill [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stellenridge, Cape Town, South Africa
Wednesday, June 16, 2004 at 15:20:44 (UTC)
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apparently
english soccer proffessional players make the best lovers..
on top for 90 minutes and always coming second!
Kerry Rawlinson (née Van Niekerk) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Wednesday, June 16, 2004 at 14:55:23 (UTC)
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Who invented the Internet???
I always thought it was Al Gore - the previous VP of the USA :)....
Seriously though - a version of the internet was around in the early 70s between some universities in the states.
What made the internet accessible to the masses was the introduction of Netscape in 1994 I think. Prior to that you had to be a tekkie to access the internet.
I started in 1991 and took a two day course just to learn how to sign on and send an e-mail, hee, hee...
Peter Dielissen [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
Wednesday, June 16, 2004 at 14:18:11 (UTC)
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Thought I would post this.......
we have a lot to thank this guy for, because of his innovation we have been brought closer to one another,also I have found my country of birth is not just a dream.but real....just think we would have never had the GNR.......so a big big thanks Tim Berners-Lee
Ali
*Web inventor Berners-Lee wins rich tech prize*
World Wide Web inventor Tim Berners-Lee has won the inaugural $1.75 million Millennium Technology Prize, presented by the Finnish Technology Award Foundation.
The foundation awards the prize to acknowledge "outstanding technological innovation that directly promotes people's quality of life, is based on humane values and encourages sustainable economic development".
Pekka Tarjanne, chairman of the International Award Selection Committee, says Mr Berners-Lee deserves the prize for inventing the web.
"The web has significantly enhanced many people's ability to obtain information central to their lives," Dr Tarjanne said in a statement.
"The web is encouraging new types of social networks, supporting transparency and democracy and opening up novel avenues for information management and business development."
Mr Berners-Lee invented the World Wide Web while working at CERN, the European Particle Physics Laboratory, according to his website biography.
He also wrote the first web browser, editor and server in 1990 and his invention first became available to the public in 1991.
Mr Berners-Lee has also been credited by many in the technology community with keeping the web free by not applying a patent to his invention.
He is now director of the World Wide Web Consortium (W3C) at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) in Boston.
He took out the rich new prize ahead of 77 other innovators nominated from 22 countries.
The prize was awarded in conjunction with the inaugural Millennium Technology Conference, 'Future Society - Future Technology' in Helsinki.
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Wednesday, June 16, 2004 at 12:00:11 (UTC)
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Frank & Chris,
A quick search on the web gives:
George Gregan, born Lusaka, 19 April 1973
Corne Krige, born Lusaka, 21 March 1975
It could have been a great Lusaka 1st XV in 1995 if those two had stayed around! Maybe it was anyway.
Keith Binns [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Wednesday, June 16, 2004 at 07:58:40 (UTC)
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Northeners...
Believe it or not - but Craig and I did stay out of trouble at lunch today....
Craig will post proof no doubt!
Peter Dielissen [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
Wednesday, June 16, 2004 at 02:58:29 (UTC)
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A little girl sent this to me today I think it is worth sharing, A lady dropped her purse in a busy store and did not notice until 5 mins later, she was just about to write it off when a little boy came up to her and said missy I think you dropped this a few mins ago, the lady took the purse and looked inside it then said to the little boy when I lost this purse there was a 20 dollar bill in it now there is 20 x 1 dollar bills in it how does this happen? the little boy said madam the last time i returned a purse to a lady she said she did not have any change to give me a reward.
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Tuesday, June 15, 2004 at 20:44:44 (UTC)
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Hi! all,here`s one for the joke book.
Paddy in a disco asks a girl for a shag,she says she cant she is on her menstrual cycle,Paddy says that`s ok I am on my moped I will follow you home.
Sorry but I thought it was funny.
Cheers for now.
Lyd
Lydia Beck (née Papier) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lincoln, England
Tuesday, June 15, 2004 at 19:06:41 (UTC)
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Chris
Thanks for the reply. Certainly another point of view. I will email you!
Cheers - Doug
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Tuesday, June 15, 2004 at 18:09:36 (UTC)
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Hi Lesley
Maybe there was just two lines to the song Ha! Ha!
I know how you feel travelling to Mary Moffat every day at that age. I had to catch a lift from Mukambo with the mine lorries that went from our house in Mukambo to town. It was an adventure at that age.
Cheers.
Nicky Kontou [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Tuesday, June 15, 2004 at 16:48:02 (UTC)
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Hi Everyone!
Hope your days are all busy and full of whatever you want the most!
I've had a call from Noel Daley - his band Crocodile Rock will be playing at the Dianella Pub this Saturday... he'd really like to see anyone from the GNR!
Call or leave a message on ++61 08 9402 4053.
Sue Coughlan (née Forde) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, WA, Australia
Tuesday, June 15, 2004 at 16:34:08 (UTC)
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To all ex and current Zams I would greatly appreciate anyone putting me in touch with any of the following who I have lost track of over the years:Ewart Crowther, Dave Cook, Tom Hennigan, Laurie Gambrill, Peter Riley, Pete Duggan, All ex Ndola guys.
Frank Yoxall.
Frank Yoxall [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Woking, Surrey, England, United Kingdom
Tuesday, June 15, 2004 at 14:02:33 (UTC)
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hi every one.. would anyone have a recent photo of the shop on table mountain.when I was there in 97 they where fixing it up. Things have changed I wont be able to get back. the photo would be much appreciated. thanks. barry
Barry Morton [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Brisbane, Australia
Tuesday, June 15, 2004 at 08:12:57 (UTC)
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Hey Debbie you know those two guys. Butter wont melt in their........... you know what. Remember them when we were in Vancouver they the life aof a party.
Chris
Christopher Drake [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Quesnel, British Columbia, Canada
Tuesday, June 15, 2004 at 05:42:33 (UTC)
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Craig and Peter
Stay out of trouble you two!!!!
Debbie Stewart [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Kamloops, British Columbia, Canada
Tuesday, June 15, 2004 at 04:11:37 (UTC)
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Hi Craig...
Bring your digital camera to lunch tomorow....
Peter Dielissen [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
Tuesday, June 15, 2004 at 03:48:38 (UTC)
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Doug,
I am not familiar at all with the Iscor transaction, but took a minute to read the Solidarity website to get a little understanding of the issue. Here goes:
1. Iscor was govt owned, and was (almost by definition) poorly run and not very profitable, if at all)
2. The govt decided to sell it, or some of it, to the private sector
3. Along comes LMN from India, major diversified international and well run steel company owner/operator, and start talking with the seller.
4. Buyer and seller agree to whatever they agreed to
5. Not long after the purchase, now owner LMN run the company the way they want to
6. Huge figures are involved. (They always are when you talk steel mills - BILLIONS!!)
7. Inevitable layoffs are contemplated/implemented. It invariably happens when the private sector take over an enterprise such as a steel fabricator from govt.
8. The union now tries to protect their workers, and start throwing large numbers around (massive house, huge consultacting fees etc.) and make LMN look bad and certainly a "poor quality and greedy employer.
9. The "market" reacts negatively to developments
10. LMN start defending their position
The above is a very rudimentary synopsis of the Iscor privatization. But it rings familiar bells with many other situations in many countries, covering many industries. And if one reads the Union's position in a vacuum, then LMN can be made to look bad. But before we start throwing stones at LMN, we really ought to consider the other side of the coin. There is one, to be sure, but I have not the time nor inclination to look it up. Capitalism looks brutal sometimes, but compared with all the other systems, it is without argument the very best.
May I finish with a thought - if you were to be the winner of the Rhodesian Sweep (R$100,000.00), having purchased your ticket from a legal outlet, and fully paid for, the money would be yours to do with what you want. There will be others in the community who will bitch and moan about the sudden wealth, and might say - it is just not fair! LMN purchased a lottery ticket in Iscor, and apparently came out grand prize winner. The unions are understandably up in arms, and the nation is murmuring about theft/fraud etc. as well as the "unfairness" of the situation.
Remember, in any sale, there is a buyer, and a seller. The seller in this case was the govt. If the transaction was indeed not to the best benefit of the company and the country, then we should analise the govt's inability take care of it's job. And unless LMN have broken specific laws, I will salute them for another succesful transaction.
Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Tuesday, June 15, 2004 at 02:52:09 (UTC)
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Peter,
Sounds good. I left a message with the front desk with my phone number, as you were not in when I phoned. Lunch on Tuesday would work well, but Wednesday would be fine too.
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Tuesday, June 15, 2004 at 02:06:20 (UTC)
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Hello still looking for more people to come to a reunion in Wales for all expats that lived in Muf etc from 1960's on.
Where. The Greenacre,
Heol Fach,
North Cornelly,
Nr. Pyle,
Bridgend,
Glam, S.Wales. CF334LH
Tel 01656743041[ motel attached if you need rooms.
When.. Friday July 23rd 7pm on.
Buffet 5 pounds per person RSVP if you plan to attend. It would be great to see as many people as possible from that time.WE lived there from 1967-73 and keep in touch with a few when we come home[live in Canada now],but there are many that we haven't seen since leaving. Please try and come lynhowell@hotmail.com
Lyn Howell (née Piper) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada
Monday, June 14, 2004 at 20:58:45 (UTC)
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Doug,
I have no idea who LM is, or where he came from. I cannot comment at all.
As a matter of passing interest, ISCOR was a client in our portfolio in 1980/82. At that time the company was about as efficient as any quasi government outfit - if you get my drift!
Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Monday, June 14, 2004 at 20:23:53 (UTC)
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Hi Craig...
I am at the Sylvia - room 214 - lost your number....
Want to do lunch at Hooters - my treat - Tuesday or Wednesday?
Peter Dielissen [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
Monday, June 14, 2004 at 18:54:00 (UTC)
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30, 000 workers laid off = £80 million house + £33 million wedding for Mittal's daughter. Big money in anybodies language!
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Monday, June 14, 2004 at 18:38:59 (UTC)
|
If anyone in UK was wondering where Lackshmi Mittal got the money to pay the highest ever recorded price for a mansion in UK recently, the following may be of interest. Solidarity was previously the white mine workers union that is now fully multi-racial. Iscor is of course the now privatised South African Iron & Steel Corporation.
"The trade union Solidarity requested a one year moratorium on staff retrenchments at Iscor. This comes after a Solidarity report that showed how Lakshmi Mittal achieved growth to the value of R5-billion on his investment in Iscor within approximately two years This represents an increase of a massive 174%. The amount excludes the consultation fee of R613-million paid to LNM by Iscor. Mittal's immense profit is more than double the total annual staff costs of the approximately 13 000 workers at Iscor. Despite the massive capital growth for Mittal, Iscor still wants to get rid of 1 000 posts".
Anyone who is interested could get a profile of Mittal at
http://www.solidarity.co.za/home/mailPreview.asp?ID=142
This chap must even beat with Grasso (the $140 million ex-chairman of Wall Street Stock Exchange) for bloodsucking.
Chris, maybe you as a scholar of economics could email me your opinion on this so we don't bore the other folks on our board, as it is only marginally germane.
Cheers - Doug
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Monday, June 14, 2004 at 18:31:25 (UTC)
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At the time when that famous icon of Springbok players, Naas (the Baas!) Botha was demolishing all the UK teams with his kicking skills, the famous commentator Bill McLaren coined the nickname "Nastie Booter"!!
What should we name Johnny Wilkinson??
Bill Hunt [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Widenham, Natal, South Africa
Monday, June 14, 2004 at 18:15:56 (UTC)
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Ar you BOYS sure his name was not come Kwickly from Lusaka? Johnny.
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Monday, June 14, 2004 at 11:15:01 (UTC)
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Bill if only I could contct her to ask her, I dont think Pamela is reading the board worse luck.
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Monday, June 14, 2004 at 11:11:37 (UTC)
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Kieth and Chris,
The answere is yes it was Corne Krige of Ngwerere, Lusaka
Regards, Frank
Frank Yoxall [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Woking, Surrey, England, United Kingdom
Monday, June 14, 2004 at 09:27:33 (UTC)
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Chris,
Unfortunately that is the bit I don't remember. Hopefully some of the GNR readers will know the answer.
Keith Binns [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Monday, June 14, 2004 at 08:43:02 (UTC)
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Keith - was the other captain not Corne Krige from Lusaka ?
Chris Conrad [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Cheng du, Sichuan Province, China
Monday, June 14, 2004 at 07:46:07 (UTC)
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Keith - was the other captain not Corne Krige from Lusaka ?
Chris Conrad [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Cheng du, Sichuan Province, China
Monday, June 14, 2004 at 07:42:47 (UTC)
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George Musarurwa Gregan OA
Congratulation to Zambian born Wallaby captain George Musarurwa Gregan who was listed in the Queen's Birthday Honours as a Member of the Order of Australia (OA) this morning.
Musarurwa means the chosen one.
The Wallabies scrum-half is expected to pass David Campese's record as Australia's most capped player and become one of just 4 players to have notched up more than 100 rugby union tests.
******************************************
About two years ago on a popular radio quiz the following question was posed:
In one of the several international rugby union tests played last month two opposing sides (neither of which was Zambia) had Zambian born captains. Name the sides and the two captains. The incomplete answer was Australia v South Africa. George Gregan was one of the two players but I cannot remember the name of the then South African captain.
A follow up question was: Name the only other time this has happened in the 100 year history of the game.
The answer was the same teams and players when the teams met 3 weeks earlier. Boom-boom.
Keith Binns [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Monday, June 14, 2004 at 02:37:08 (UTC)
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Eastern Cataract -- Victoria Falls
Everyone takes at least one photo of the Eastern Cataract of the Falls from a particular spot but how many people say a mental thank you to whoever removed a branch from a tree to improve the view? Or wonder who did it and when?
Compare a recent picture taken by Heather at
http://www.greatnorthroad.org/bboard/0401/falls001.jpg
with one dating from 1950 (or before) at
http://www.nrzam.org.uk/Site%20Resources/NRPhotoBook/EastCat.jpg
and you will see what I mean.
The tree would appear to have changed but little in the 53 years between the shots -- I wonder if anyone can come up with an earlier photo?
Regards Ian
Ian Singer [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Livingston, West Lothian, Scotland
Sunday, June 13, 2004 at 20:16:38 (UTC)
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Johnny
36 - 3!!!
Jet Lag??
Take the Zambian out of the Pom side & the wheels fall off!!
Are they saving Johnny Wilkinson for the next World Cup??
Maybe get Pamela of tassel tossing fame to train the side with a bit of belly dancing. I'm sure Sir Clive is prepared to try anything after this dismal performance.
Bill Hunt [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Widenham, Natal, South Africa
Sunday, June 13, 2004 at 19:50:35 (UTC)
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HEATHER
Thanks for those wonderful photos. Do you (or anyone else) know the name of the trees in the background of photo number 9......the one with mummy hippo and her babies?
Anona Balloch [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
United Kingdom
Sunday, June 13, 2004 at 14:37:23 (UTC)
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Jilly lets put that humiliating score down to Jet Lag
Johnny.
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Sunday, June 13, 2004 at 10:28:19 (UTC)
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my old man was in zambia from 1965-1974.
in Kitwe and Lusaka , if you new my old man, his name
is Yves Trachsel( RED) was with caterpillar ( Wilfrid Watson) was a adept of the kitwe playing filds
sevice dep. 1965-1968 ( KITWE) and then moved to lusaka
sorry for the speling i am swiss living in quebec
Ian Trachsel [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Sunday, June 13, 2004 at 03:05:08 (UTC)
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HEATHER, as usual, magnificent photos, and as usual, they bought a lump to my throat, I closed my eyes and was back in Zambia...bravo!
Did anyone else frequent the movies in Zambia in the seventies, we were in our teens then, and really looked forward to our Saturday afternoons in Lusaka, we used to meet up in one of the Zamby Snack bars, then all try to pass for eighteen in the Lusaka Hotel, (to buy illicit beers, they always served us), and then to either Plaza 1, or 2, and if my memory serves me right, there was a tiny cinema called "The Other Cinema", in an arcade, and they sold the flat boxes of Peter Styvestant, 30's, smoking a P.S. always takes me back to those hot, carefree days, the content of the movie never mattered, it was the talent in the queue that decided us! There were two, hot, (for fourteen year old Lusaka Convent girls) Scottish brothers called Spud, (Andrew), and Colin Dunnet, and we brazenly trailed them all over Lusaka, they were wicked boys, (hence the attraction), and broke our hearts as they sloped into various movies, always accompanied by gorgeous, older, girls. I had pretty much given up my hopeless quest, (just to be noticed by Spud Dunnet, ) when my brother strolled in one day and casually announced to mom that a friend of his needed a bed for a couple of nights, and who strolled into the house but Spud! In the two weeks that he stayed I stalked the poor guy until I got one ten minute kiss, (he explained very nicely that at seventeen, he felt he was a little old for me, and in anycase, he was scared of my brothers!), which was victory for me anyway! I remember those dusty, hot days in Lusaka so well, and poignently, the thrill of the chase when in ones teens, emerging from dark cinemas blinking in the white glare of the sun, big crowds of us meeting up at Munies or the Rugby club, or the Gymkhana Club, braais, cold beers, (hot-ish guys), sneaking out to discos at the Lion Club, and now retribution, I have a fourteen year old daughter, (beautiful and headstrong,) and I know what I was like at that age, all that drinking, smoking, chasing, aghh!, and then I have to go through it all again with Jemima in thirteen or so years! Sorry to ramble on, but those teenage years were the best, most carefree, abandoned of all my life! Like they say, No worries! Ciao, Megs
Meg Rybicki (formerly Margaret) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Mullanyduff, Co Leitrim, Ireland
Sunday, June 13, 2004 at 00:28:46 (UTC)
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Arthur,
I haven't missed your most excellent road map of the Federation, and will put it on the maps page as soon as I can.
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Saturday, June 12, 2004 at 21:35:09 (UTC)
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Looking for the Moore family
This message posted on behalf of non-member Colette Cantrin.
I am looking for family MOORE Bernahrd-Henry and Nola (childrens: John,Terence,Kevin) living at GWELO in South Rhodesia). They have welcomed my family because we come from kolwézi (Congo Belge) during evacuation in 1960.Who know them? I make this looking for my sister who had writing to Nola. Excuse my english. Thank!
If you can help Colette, please contact her directly at colettecantrin@hotmail.com. Thanks.
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Saturday, June 12, 2004 at 21:20:34 (UTC)
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Jilly
I heard them interviewed on SAFM this morning and then went to the website that they mentioned. It is quite a good site and I will follow their travels.
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Saturday, June 12, 2004 at 21:13:15 (UTC)
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Heather,
Whatever Peter wrote about me is not true. I'm sure I destroyed the only copy of that video tape.
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Saturday, June 12, 2004 at 20:19:11 (UTC)
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Doug,
Please givr mr your source for the journos going into "AFRICA".
Johny,
Commiserations - ouch 36 - 3 against einah!
Jilly
Jill Aplin [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
South Africa
Saturday, June 12, 2004 at 18:41:07 (UTC)
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Heather
There is a group of 6 South African women journalists who have decided to visit Africa ( as the rest of Africa is often refered to in RSA, as if we are not part of it).
They will be traveling through Botwana and Zambia to the north of Tanzania where they will climb Ol Doinyo Lengai volcanic mountain. They call it a groundbreaking trip. I am sure they will be astonished to find that other white people actualy reached Zambia before them. Most South Africans ignorance about the rest of Africa is incredible!
Their website is www.savannajane.co.za
I have emailed them and warned them that they are not allowed to pass through Zambia without contacting you. Maybe you can divert them into climbing the mine dumps and tell them its a volcanic mountain :-)
At least it can do something towards educating South Africans about tourism opportuinities in "Africa".
Best Regards - Doug
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Saturday, June 12, 2004 at 09:19:03 (UTC)
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Hi John Milton...
Happy birthday you old fart.....
From a much younger Peter Dielissen on the beach in Oregon right now...
Hi Heather...
Great - more on the way!
Northeners...
Just spent three days in Yosemity National park. Unbelievably beautiful. A must place to visit in this world!
Currently on the beaches in Oregon - equally spectacular!
Charles...
Say Hi to Peter Erasmus. Do you have his email address?
Peter Dielissen [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
Friday, June 11, 2004 at 23:34:39 (UTC)
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I remember DANCING round the maypole but don't recall being involved in any pugilistic argument settling activities. A later addition was an open-sided,covered area where we used to throw bean bags at each other on days when it was too hot or wet for outdoor sport.
Lesley Billany [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Horsham, West Sussex, United Kingdom
Friday, June 11, 2004 at 22:57:37 (UTC)
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Does anyone remember "The Maypole" at the site of the Mary Moffat School?
This was the official Mufulira venue for all after- school pugilistic argument settling activities.
The Maypole had been installed for first of May celebrations but was later used as a site marker for other less genteel functions!
Bill Hunt [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Widenham, Natal, South Africa
Friday, June 11, 2004 at 20:46:09 (UTC)
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Nicky
I remember the Mary Moffatt song well. Unfortunately, like you I can only remember the words to the first 2 lines so I sing those and hum the rest. I also remember lovely Mrs. Meggitt the headmistress, Miss Mason who terrified me and my favourite teacher beautiful Miss Monroe. I remember getting lost under a stage in the hall (how?)on my first day and having to be rescued and returned to my teacher, snivelling. I don't think I ever recovered from the embarrassment.
I also forgot to get off the school bus at my new stop when we moved house and had to be rescued and taken home by kind Mrs. Smidt! Life is so hard at five!
Lesley
Lesley Billany [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Horsham, West Sussex, United Kingdom
Friday, June 11, 2004 at 19:29:20 (UTC)
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Does anyone who attended Mary Moffet in Muf remember the song they taught us?
When doctor david livingstone to our Rhodesia came,
He brought his young wife with him Mary Moffet was her name.
I can't remember the rest, can anyone help?
things that stick in your mind hey? 50 years on!!
Nicky Kontou [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Friday, June 11, 2004 at 18:49:07 (UTC)
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Thank you all for the heffalump jokes. I was right - the child in me cracked up .... again.
Must be deteriorating or regressing or recessing or something.
Loverley.
More please!
Bill
William Knott [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Friday, June 11, 2004 at 18:41:34 (UTC)
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John
Belated Happy Birthday! As to gyrocopters always coming down, it is not the coming down that's the problem, it's the sudden stop when you hit the ground.
Seriously though, good luck to you, it seems to be a nice sport. I took up paragliding course a couple of years ago but chickened out before jumping of the mountain.
We have a number of microlite flyers here in Vryheid. I must take a ride up with them one day (after a few stiff brandies).
More corny jokes: -
Mary had a little lamb! The doctor had a heart attack!
Or limericks
There was an old man of ghent
Who's tool was all buckled and bent
To save himself trouble, he put it in double
And instead of cuming he went.
Can anyone remember all the verses of the Gilbert Rennie school song? The chorus went, "Oh Dina Dina, show us a leg a foot above your knee." The verses went on to describe Dina's manifold accomplishments. Probably to crude for this board!
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Friday, June 11, 2004 at 18:17:01 (UTC)
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Martin Williams
Have just been looking through the board and noted Kevin's comments about Tuskers (Elephants Head) and am afraid that I have to disagree with him.
The new owners have recently upgraded the hotel (sorted out all the plumbing and electrical problems, fully recarpeted, new furniture throughout etc. and I stayed there a while ago. It is now clean, safe, has hot water, comfortable beds, TV (not DSTv, but a choice of two or three channels), coffee making facilities in all the rooms, fans (no aircons, but you would not need that in July). There is also safe parking for your vehicle. The only two drawbacks are that it is mostly a conference hotel so I would not recommend staying there from Monday to Thursday if you can avoid it. The other issue is the food - whilst the food is not bad, they cater mostly to the local market so it is mostly stews etc although they do have braais and pizzas. the breakfasts are fine.
If you need any help with booking (their web page is not yet up and running), please contact me and if you have any specific requirements, I shall contact their owners regarding this. In fact, many people on the board might remember them - Sybil and Paddy Doyle, the daughter and son of Pat and Sally Doyle. Pat was a farmer in Mazabuka, Lusaka and Chisamba. He also played polo for a number of years.
If you want more detailed information about road conditions, other places to stay, how to deal with police blocks etc, please email me.
I'll stop hogging the message board now.
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Friday, June 11, 2004 at 18:13:00 (UTC)
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Peter Dielissen
Have just checked the post that came in today and there were your postcards - both of them. Hope the presentation went well and I agree with what you said about Craig.
This evening I'm paying the price of progress - Lusaka now has five cinemas (the old ones closed own about 20 years ago) and I'm hanging about in town until my daughter has been to the movies. Bring back the days when she was happy to hang around at home with her mates. Or bring on the days when she has a driving licence.
Back to work - plenty to get done before I go down to Sinazongwe tomorrow.
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Friday, June 11, 2004 at 17:36:51 (UTC)
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Notherners
Take a look at these jokers - taken on the Lower Zambezi two weeks ago.
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Friday, June 11, 2004 at 17:11:42 (UTC)
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Ali and Tina,
Many thanks for the birthday greetings. Unfortunately the Triumph is gathering dust at the moment as my current passion is Gyrocopters (believe me this is the only way to fly............. and before anyone tells me that it is dangerous, I'll have you know that not one gyro has never landed!)
Pete.... Happy bithday to you old son...what did you buy me for my birthday?
cheers beers and biltong
John
John Milton [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth Western Australia, Australia
Friday, June 11, 2004 at 16:34:33 (UTC)
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Have you ever seen an elephant in a box of smarties?
No?...........Well that shows how well their toenail painting trick works!
Paudie Coughlan [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, WA, Australia
Friday, June 11, 2004 at 15:41:37 (UTC)
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Hickory Dickory Dock,
An elephant ran up the clock,
The clock is being repaired.
Pat McEnery [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Bromley, Kent, England
Friday, June 11, 2004 at 15:24:11 (UTC)
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Can anyone say beer can and eggs without sounding like a Jamaican saying bacon and eggs?
2 Boers come out of the pub pissed,and proceed to drive down the bus lane,when they are pulled over by an African traffic cop.Excuse me gents he says,but do you know that you are driving in the bus lane?Of course they reply I`m bass Koos and this is bass Piet.
Pappy Papier [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Glasgow, United Kingdom
Friday, June 11, 2004 at 14:52:55 (UTC)
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Why are elephants so wrinkly ?
Have you ever tried ironing one ??!!??!!?
David Swan [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Bute, Scotland, United Kingdom
Friday, June 11, 2004 at 13:53:23 (UTC)
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No matter how old the jokes it is much better than all that c---p we have had to read this last month or two I for one laughed at all of them as I suspect Knotty has, keep em coming and stuff the detractors Johnny.
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Friday, June 11, 2004 at 10:40:19 (UTC)
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sorry..meant "Laws"
Ayub Ismail Zumla [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Manchester, United Kingdom
Friday, June 11, 2004 at 09:09:55 (UTC)
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The quality of jokes on this board.....
Try this one:
An Indian tourist arrives at Heathrow with his Elephant ....which has a Chapati (Roti) sticking out of each of its ears. He calmly tries to walk through the Green Channel when he is stopped by an "alert" Customs Officer. The officer looks at this Indian chap and begins to question him: " Do you not know the Lawas of our land? Bringing live animals into the UK is prohibited!". The Indian in his own sweet accent retorts :"none of your business what I bring in my sandwhich"!!
Ayub Ismail Zumla [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Manchester, United Kingdom
Friday, June 11, 2004 at 09:08:25 (UTC)
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A couple more jokes for the Board:
The Pharmacist
A woman walks into a pharmacy asks the pharmacist for some arsenic poison.
He says, "What do you want with arsenic?"
She replies, "I want to kill my husband because he is cheating on me with another woman".
The pharmacist says, "I can't sell you arsenic so you can kill your husband, lady. Not even if he is cheating on you with another woman."
So she reaches into her pocket and pulls out a picture of her husband in bed with the pharmacist's wife.
The pharmacist says "Oh, I didn't realize you had a prescription"
The Mommy Test
I was out walking with my four year old daughter. She picked up something off the ground and started to put it in her mouth. I asked her not to do that.
"Why?" she asked.
"Because it's been laying outside and it's dirty and full of germs."
At this point, she looked at me with total admiration and asked, "Wow! How do you know all this stuff?"
I was thinking to myself - everyone knows this stuff but quickly responded, "It's on the Mommy test. You have to know it, or they don't let you be a Mommy."
"Oh!" she replied.
We walked along in silence for two or three minutes and she was evidently processing and wondering this new information. "I get it!" she beamed. "If you flunk the test you become a Daddy. "
Betty Mahady (née Horn) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
United Kingdom
Friday, June 11, 2004 at 08:58:57 (UTC)
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OK! Since the competition seems to have degenerated as to who can provide the worst old joke try this:
THE ZAMBIAN (or IRISH or POLISH or NEWFIE - depending on location) KNOCK KNOCK JOKE
"You start"
KNOCK KNOCK?
"Who is there?"
...................................?
(Sounds better than written - try it verbally)
With that winning entry can we move on now?
David Russell [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Western Australia, Australia
Friday, June 11, 2004 at 06:45:08 (UTC)
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How do you know that an elephant has been in your fridge
Footprints in the butter
How do you hide an elephant in a box of smarties
Paint its toenails different colours
Have a super weekend
Madeleine
Madeleine Luckin (née Bekker) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Johannesburg, South Africa
Friday, June 11, 2004 at 06:12:17 (UTC)
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did you know that the leopard has a spot for every day of the year -----and for the leap year you lift its tail
Hilton Williams [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Brisbane, Australia
Friday, June 11, 2004 at 03:38:07 (UTC)
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.....the answer to "how do you know if you have a hippo under your bed ? "
Your nose touches the ceiling
How do you camoflage a white elephant?
you paint black stripes on him, he then becomes a Zebra !!!!
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Friday, June 11, 2004 at 02:16:20 (UTC)
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Two chat up lines:
He: What does a giant polar bear weigh?
She: I don’t know.
He: I don’t know either but it broke the ice didn’t it?
He: I may not be Fred Flintstone but I could make your bed rock.
(And before other locals pick me up on this they were in "The West Australian" this morning, our quality local paper.)
Keith Binns [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Friday, June 11, 2004 at 02:15:15 (UTC)
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Two jokes (not elephant-related) that were doing the rounds in Kitwe :
How do you get a cat to bark ?
Pour petrol over it - set it alight, and it goes "woof".
How do you get a dog to meow ?
Stick it through a butcher's bandsaw and it goes "meeeee-ow".
Apologies to dog/cat lovers.
Chris Conrad [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Cheng du, Sichuan Province, China
Friday, June 11, 2004 at 01:17:35 (UTC)
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Get loads of elephant jokes here.
How are an elephant and a banana just alike?
They are both yellow . . . . uh . . . . Except for the elephant, of course.
Q: What did the cat say to the elephant?
A: Meow.
Rick Rosewarne [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Edinburgh, Scotland
Friday, June 11, 2004 at 00:31:01 (UTC)
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For Jilly
What should you do with a green elephant?
You should wait until it gets ripe.
Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Thursday, June 10, 2004 at 23:05:40 (UTC)
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Hi All
nrzam.org.uk has been updated.
Added a book of black and white photographs of Northern Rhodesia dated 1950 to Miscellaneous/ Northern Rhodesia Photo Album 1950.
Regards Ian
Ian Singer [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Livingston, West Lothian, Scotland
Thursday, June 10, 2004 at 21:47:37 (UTC)
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How do you shoot a blue elephant?
With your blue elephant gun.
How do you shoot a red elephant?
You get it by the trunk and twist the trunk round and round and round until the elephant turns blue from lack of oxygen.....then....
You shoot it with your blue elephant gun, of course.
Jill Aplin [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
South Africa
Thursday, June 10, 2004 at 20:13:19 (UTC)
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Knock knock
Who's there?
Kitwe
Kitwe who?
Kitwe were when we learned these jokes.
Knock knock
Who's there?
Zambezi
Zambezi who?
Zambezi worst jokes but they go on and on through our kids and grandkids.
Knock knock
Knock knock who?
Kafue
Kafue who?
Kafue on anyone who can't laugh at these old jokes.
Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Thursday, June 10, 2004 at 17:52:17 (UTC)
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How do you get 4 elephants into a mini?
2 in the front 2 in the back and thier trunks in the boot.
How do you get 4 elephants out of a mini?
Throw in a mouse.
How did the elephant get out of the cherry tree?
Sat on a leaf and waited until Autumn.
Pappy Papier [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Glasgow, United Kingdom
Thursday, June 10, 2004 at 17:27:24 (UTC)
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How did the elephant get up the oak tree? It sat on an acorn and waited.
Why have ducks got webbed feet? To put out bushfires. Why have elephants got big feet? To put out burning ducks. (Sheesh)
Bob Gillies [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Springs, Gauteng, South Africa
Thursday, June 10, 2004 at 16:17:51 (UTC)
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Billy I dont know whether this is a wise move or Knott
But here you are,
How did the elephant hide in the cherry tree? He painted his toe nails red.
How do you know when an elephant has been in your fridge? You find his footprints in the butter. Oh William what have you started?.
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Thursday, June 10, 2004 at 15:12:13 (UTC)
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Maybe no more egg jokes, but does anyone remember the spate of elephant jokes from around the 60s and 70s??
I recall falling over with laughs from some of them and would dearly love to see some on the GNR. I could then know if I was,just going through a time of insanity or if they were really absurdly funny.
Bill
William Knott [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Thursday, June 10, 2004 at 14:16:49 (UTC)
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Doug
For some reason I cannot contact you using the [contact] on the message board.
My old address is still valid till the month end, could you send me an e-mail please to kasembo at zamnet dot zm (just to confuse the spammers)
Tommy’s real name is Dorrin, Dorsey or something along those lines.
Kevin Shone [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Ndola, Zambia
Thursday, June 10, 2004 at 08:52:38 (UTC)
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Billy
Thanks for info i will browse through the archives, and follow it up.
Kelvin Ross [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Johannesburg, South Africa
Thursday, June 10, 2004 at 07:32:39 (UTC)
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Two eggs were dropped ino a pan of boiling water and one of them sustained a crack in it, and said to its companion in the pan are you going to make love to me
? the other one replied no I'm not hard yet.
No more egg jokes please Johnny.
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Wednesday, June 09, 2004 at 20:35:19 (UTC)
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Doug, Thanks for mentioning Chipongwe. It was a railway station we were posted to in 1960/62, south of Chilanga with Mapepi between us. A memorable two years amongst the farming community. I registered a company called Chipongwe (Pty) Ltd in 1983 as the four names I submitted to the auditors were rejected as already used and he asked in desperation for something infallible, hence Chipongwe. From there on the banks etc asked what it meant. I said it meant sikati wena niga mina Chipongwe mina azi shupa wena. Chipongwe (Pty) Ltd has failed to make a profit any year in 21 years (Chris Tamm will understand) which is in keeping with Zambia in general.
Meanwhile in Chipongwe a chicken and an egg were in bed together. The chicken was laying back, having a smoke, with a grin on it's face. The egg faced the other way upset saying ' now I know the thruth'. Sorry best I can do at present.
Bob Gillies [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Springs, Gauteng, South Africa
Wednesday, June 09, 2004 at 16:22:15 (UTC)
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Hi to all on the GNR
Thanks to all the oganizers for your work.
I have been reading the message board for months now hoping to see a name that i know, but no such luck. So this being my first posting i hope it will bring out some people out there that might know me. It it great to see everyone talking about the past it brings back so many memories. We left Lusaka in 1969 with a very sore heart, we moved to the UK, i returned to S.A in 1982 with my own family. We now own a small game farm in hekpoort on the Magaliesburg mountains. I hope to hear from anyone who might remember me. I mention some names of old friends: Sam Riddell, James Warner, Tommy Martin, Mike Renyolds, Kenny Crouse, Maeve Skinner, Laura Charbonnier that is just to mention a few.
Look forward to your postings
Kelvin Ross [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Johannesburg, South Africa
Wednesday, June 09, 2004 at 08:13:32 (UTC)
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All these animals jokes.
You are reminding me of the dear sheltered old lady in days gone by who had never seen an elephant before. An elephant escaped from the zoo and found her cabbage patch where he proceeded to settle in for a good feed. The little old lady called the police and said: "Help there is a huge animal in my garden... What did you say officer? What's it doing?" (She looks out of the window and runs back to phone)... "It's pulling my cabbages out of the ground with its tail and I daren't tell you what its doing with them!"
Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Wednesday, June 09, 2004 at 02:28:12 (UTC)
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......yes I know , funny hahaha.......but I thought if I have to endure a 10 yearolds attempt at making the world a better place by making people laugh then why not share ...............how do you know a hippo is under your bed?????
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Wednesday, June 09, 2004 at 00:52:52 (UTC)
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bears fish with ......................fishing lions...........
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Wednesday, June 09, 2004 at 00:09:04 (UTC)
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I seldom laugh aloud at the written word but Doug's Lord Prayer had me in stiches from the first line, its the funniest thing I have read in many years. I can only hope now for a full translation of the Bible. I wonder if bweza for bring which I remember we used was a local word in Shonaland, I can't remember if we still used it N.R. Memory fades.
Colin Munro [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Oban, Scotland, United Kingdom
Tuesday, June 08, 2004 at 23:54:19 (UTC)
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Hi All
nrzam.org.uk has been updated
Added three articles from Brian Barratt dated
August 1961, 'Welensky's Sputnik', 'Kaunda's Last
Stand' and 'Hope Through UNIP' written by Sir
Stewart Gore-Brown, to the Miscellaneous/ Central
African Examiner.
Regards Ian
PS I always wondered why the Autralians and New Zealanders took so many sheep with them.
Ian Singer [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Livingston, West Lothian, Scotland
Tuesday, June 08, 2004 at 21:47:45 (UTC)
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Ali
Bears fish with a paw-paw
Arthur Steevens [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stockport, United Kingdom
Tuesday, June 08, 2004 at 19:59:56 (UTC)
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We were taught a different method of catching polar bears when were at school, we were told the implements needed were a black board and easel some chalk, a pair of tweezers, a pair of binoculars and a jam jar You set up the black board and easel on the ice and with the chalk you print on the board 2+2 make 5, the polar bears gather round the board saying look at this stupid ba---d he canot add up properly, you then reverse the binoculars and look through them, the polar bears now are very small and you pick them up with the tweezers and pop them into the jam jar.
Johnny.
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Tuesday, June 08, 2004 at 17:48:22 (UTC)
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Ali
How do bears fish?
They sneak up behind a successful salmon fisherman, roar horribly, scoff the salmon and posssibly have a little fisherman for afters.
Sure you will let us know your of-fish-al answer in due course.
Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Tuesday, June 08, 2004 at 17:13:48 (UTC)
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John Milton
Happy Birthday!!! Are you going for a ride on your Triumph to celebrate?
Love from
Ted, Tina, Chris and big hairy Cozy.
Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Tuesday, June 08, 2004 at 17:09:18 (UTC)
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Ali - I don't know how bears fish but I do know how they catch Polar Bears in the far north of Canada. They cut a 4 foot diameter hole through the ice and sprinkle dehydrated peas around the edge of the hole. When the bear comes up for a pea they kick it in the ice hole.
Glen Drake [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
California, United States
Tuesday, June 08, 2004 at 13:46:49 (UTC)
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Charles
Sorry to hear you won't be hunting. Better to take it easy. Spines are not for playing with.
Ali
How do bears fish? That must be some sort of a trick question? Hopefully, like everybody else I suppose. How do porcupines have sex? Carefully! What is the difference between the Pope and a beauteous lady in a shower? The Pope has a soul full of hope and the beauteous lady has ...
Kevin
That’s interesting that your cousin was / is married to Tommy Dell! I had never really heard of him before but he sings well. Teddy Bear and Little Rosa are real tearjerkers! I wonder how one could trace him. Probably Dell is a stage name.
Send me an email so I can record your new address.
Keith
Hamba lapa first aid ena bopa wena, means ‘go to the first aid and they will tie you up (bandage you)’. Backside was usually called matako so, "Ikona shala lapa matako kawena lapa lo bokis ka lo gelitini skati wena bema lo guay".
To revisit my story that Fanagalo / Chikabanga is very similar to KiSwahili I have seen in my fanagalo phrase book that many words are identically spelt and pronounced in both languages and many others are similar. A selection:-
Identical =
Nyoka -- snake
Baba -- father
Fika -- arrive
Kuku -- hen
Lima -- cultivate ground
Lala -- lie down
Leta -- bring
Mbuzi -- goat
Mafuta -- oil, fat
Mti -- tree
Na -- and, with
Nyama -- meat
Ngoma -- drum
Nuka -- stink
Nyati -- buffalo
And so on.
Many other words are very similar (fanagalo in brackets): -
Fa (ifa) --die
Fundisha (fundisa) -- teach
Hama (hamba) -- go
Kumbuka (kumbula) --remember
Mzungu (mlungu) -- white man
Wakati (skati) -- time
It goes on to say that Swahili because of its grammatical inflections is by no means as simple a language as Fanagalo.
Fangalo for where can I find a good coffee house might be ‘Upi mena azi tola lo sitolo ka lo mushi coffee.
The Lord’s Prayer (for when Bishop TuTu becomes Pope);
Baba gatina, Wena kona pezulu,
Tina bonga lo Gama gawena;
Tina vuma lo mtetu gawena
Lapa mhlaba, fana na pezulu.
Niga tina namuhla lo zinkwa yena izwasisa;
Futi, yeka masono gatina,
Loskati tina yekelela masono ga lomunye.
Hayi letisa tina lapa lo cala;
Kodwa, sindisa tina ku lo bubi,
Ndaba wena kona lo-mteto, lo mandla, na lo dumela,
Zonkeskat. Amen.
Sala gahle -- Umfundizi Doug (Doug the preacher)
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Tuesday, June 08, 2004 at 13:26:54 (UTC)
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Doug Grewar,
I assumed you’d farmed outside BH when I read Bonanza Ranch on your profile. There was a Bonanza farm outside BH - on the Prisons/Hospital Road. I checked the BH phone directory (April 1964) David Gray gave me and saw the name associated with Bonanza is WJ Geldenhuys. If memory serves me, Chambashi Estate (Burtons) was next door. Blake managed one of the farms for the Burtons. -- therein my assumption.
I doubt if I’m fit enough to go into the veldt this year - I don’t want to risk another back op so soon. The old leg still ‘gimps’ every now and then. Maybe I’ll just skip the fur -- and stick to fowl and fin.
Now to the derivation of ‘chandamali’. The fact the first forces in NR (circa 1891 - 1907) were Sikhs left a legacy of interesting military terms. Chandamali, the word for rifle range, is derived from Hindustani - and not from a local African dialect.
Anona,
Thanks. Game farm? Isn't that spelt B - I - L - T - O - N - G ? Now there's a thought.
Regards
Charles Cartmill [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stellenridge, Cape Town, South Africa
Tuesday, June 08, 2004 at 11:29:23 (UTC)
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How do Bears fish ???
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Tuesday, June 08, 2004 at 10:15:57 (UTC)
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CHARLES
I am told that Blake Ollerman lives somewhere in the Transvaal where he has a game farm.
ARTHUR
Many thanks for that remarkable map. It has brought back wonderful travel memories.
Anona Balloch [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
United Kingdom
Tuesday, June 08, 2004 at 07:04:39 (UTC)
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Doug
A bit of useless information for you, Tommy Dell was/is married to my cousin. I haven’t seen him for over 30 years now and lost touch with him over time. I bought that CD in December and drove the kids mad playing it driving back to Zambia.
Kevin Shone [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Ndola, Zambia
Tuesday, June 08, 2004 at 07:02:09 (UTC)
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Linda Hayes,
Thanks for the e-mail as well as the two recent remarks on the GNR site. I wondered whether it was the "Mozambique Lion Hunters" or the church sign that got you going. Either way....
My glossary of Chikabanga (for use in the Copperbelt Mines) was published by the Copper Industries Service Bureau. The introduction reads:
"Chikabanga is not a language itself but a Lingua-Franca which is used as a means of communication where no common language exists. It is useful in the work situation, is easy to learn and establishes a medium through which instructions may be given and understood. It is not a substitute for a recognised language. English should be used on every possible occasion."
Well there’s no beating about the bush there. It is for giving instructions.
Now Linda I have to admit to a bit of artistic licence with the expression I quoted on 3rd June. "Don't sit on that box of dynamite with a cigarette in your mouth". It wasn’t actually in the book even I thought it should have been. I certainly could have used it on the odd occasion. Your translation to "Ikornah shala lor beksidie corwena lapa lor dyneemite boxie, skutti wena fugga lor cigaretts lapa lor mouth corwena." looks pretty impressive to me although the booklet gives muva for back, side for side (lapa panzi for bottom mind you, but that’s probably the place rather than the anatomical area) and jalatini for dynamite!
Here are a few useful phrases from the book:
Go and get the jumpers.
Hamba tola ma jombolo.
Drill where I have marked.
Chaya lo holo lapa mini kombili.
Collect your wedges.
Bamba mawedge kawena.
Watch out for trains.
Basopo lo stima.
Shut up.
Chongo.
Why are you late?
Inindaba wena chelewele?
You are loafing.
Wena lofa.
Go to the mine store.
Hamba lapa keepa store.
Go to the first aid station and fetch a dressing.
Hamba lapa first aid yena bopa wena.
Walk slowly and carefully.
Yenda poli poli.
These are typical of the phrases listed so there’s no help there if you a want to ask directions to the nearest place for a decent café latte.
Keith Binns [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Tuesday, June 08, 2004 at 06:55:43 (UTC)
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John Milton..........wishing you a wonderful day today....happy birthday and may you have many many more...lots of love from
Ali, Alice, Jade, Leah, and of course little hairy Rosie...
xxxx
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Tuesday, June 08, 2004 at 05:28:49 (UTC)
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Back at work today after a long weekend here for the Foundation Day holiday yesterday. Good to see some humour on the GNR site. Amongst my incoming e-mails was the following which would be hard to beat as one's most embarrassing moment.
A chap staying at the Melbourne Hotel in Perth removes a card offering sexual services from a telephone box in Northbridge. Back at the hotel he rings the number. A lady with a silky soft voice answers and asks if she can be of assistance. The gentleman says, "I'd like a blow job, a missionary shag, some doggie-style fun, some mild bondage, and I think I'd like to finish off with a boob wank. Is that OK"? The lady says: "It sounds intriguing Sir, but you might like to press 9 first, to get an outside line."
Keith Binns [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Tuesday, June 08, 2004 at 01:13:27 (UTC)
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Kevin Shone.
Thanks very much indeed for your advice Kevin. It will help a lot.
I've sent your message to both my Mom and my sister.
I also had an email from someone who used to live in Mkushi and we actually knew each other :-)).
This forum really works :-)))
Thanks again.
Martin Williams [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
South Africa
Monday, June 07, 2004 at 18:42:48 (UTC)
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Arthur
Thanks for that map! It is terrific!
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Monday, June 07, 2004 at 18:23:33 (UTC)
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Don & Glen thanks for the feedback. The cuddle puddle is quite famous. When I first went to Swaziland from Zambia, Jeff Perring, who met me at the airport, warned me to be carefull when driving. He said that Swazi's drove a lot slower than the Zambians but were more successfull in having accidents.
Charles if you prefer whisky to brandy to brace yourself for hairy driving conditions that is no problem. I got used to a drink called Katembe at the Portugese club in Swaziland. It is 50:50 red wine and coke drunk from a beer mug with plenty of ice. Not exactly cordon bleu but very cooling. Gin and tonic was best in the heat of the lowveldt where you can never get beer cold enough.
I never met the people that you mention. I never farmed at Broken Hill only at Mazabuka for a short time and later at Mufulira. I also spent a lot of time on Bill Culverwell, my adopted uncle's, farm at Chisamba as a teenager.
Good luck with the hunting!
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Monday, June 07, 2004 at 18:21:04 (UTC)
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To Barbara Doherty
Hi Barbara
Thanks for the info about The Rhodesian Part in the Long Range Desert Group. My father in law was in the desert in WW2. The badge on his hat was a gold scorpion which was almost in the form of a broach and could be unclasped and taken off (in fact I wear it as a broach sometimes) I don't know exactly what contingent (if that's the right word) he was with or even if he was with the Long Range Desert Group but I will try to find out and in the meantime I will ask my son to get the book for me as it will definately be of interest.
By the way I remember your mom & dad, although really only by sight. I think my late husband Ken knew your dad quite well. I just love it when names of people I knew or knew of come up - it feels as though I am hearing about old friends.
Gill Setzkorn [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Co. Down, Northern Ireland
Monday, June 07, 2004 at 17:11:52 (UTC)
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Would you believe that here in Cardiff today the temp is a scorching 27C, the hottest place in the UK.
There is a florist down the road from me that regularly stocks flame lilies and proteas- at a price though, although I am sorely tempted to treat myself one day.
I loved the croc/leapord story and the posting of the "beware of lions" notice. When I tell my stories at work, no one ever believes me.
When my dad was a young man farming in Marandellas, he was sitting doing the farm books early one evening with the top half of the stable door open. His little daxie puppy-'Jemima Puddle Duck' needed to go out to do her business, so my dad let her out, she was hardly out when she came shooting back in whimpering around his feet and shaking; next thing there was a growl at the stable door and there was a leapord with its head and massive paws over the top of the stable door. My dad was just able to slam the top half shut in time. But unfortunately the leapord wanted the puppy and scrambled up the thatch roof and proceeded to growl and tear at the thatch to try and get through the roof. My dad said he was terrified but had a rifle at hand, the fifties were treacherous times, and fired a number of shots at the roof of the rondavel until all was quiet. He was too petrified to go out into the dark incase the leapord was only injured and lying in wait, so my dad and Jemima huddled together all night wide awake. Early in the morning the farm labourers came knocking at the door urging my dad to come outside quickly to see the leapord. One of the shots had indeed been successful and the leapord and been shot off the roof , fallen to the ground and died under a nearby bush. The leapord was in a sorry state, emanciated due to a mouthful of porcupine quills that had gone septic and was therefore unable to hunt.
By the way, is anyone interested in the Rhodesians part in The Long Range Desert Group? My grandfather fought with them in Egypt in WW2, and a new book has just been written. The book can be ordered through www.dandy.co.za.
Barbara Doherty [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Cardiff, Wales, United Kingdom
Monday, June 07, 2004 at 15:24:16 (UTC)
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Martin Williams
The road from Lusaka to Chisamba is been resealed at the moment but is generally fine, the rest of the road is in excellent condition. Watch out for speed traps up to and just past Kabwe. Oh, and miles past Kapiri Mposhi town, the centre of the universe, and just before the turn-off North there is a horrific speed bump. You will notice it from the state of the road just before which looks like a runway with all the skid marks on it.
Accommodation in Kabwe. I would not recommend it but the old Elephants Head is operating under the name of Tuskers.
In Mkushi there is Forrest Inn, located just before the turn off to the Mkushi Country Club or Sweetwater very close to the old Mkushi River Hotel.
Kevin
Kevin Shone [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Ndola, Zambia
Monday, June 07, 2004 at 10:23:46 (UTC)
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The Northern Rhodesia Police Association has been invited to celebrate the 40 years since independance in Zambia at parades at Livingstone and at Lilayi, Lusaka, in August this year. This invitation by the Zambia Police is probably unique in Colonial terms. Some 100 former members and their spouses/children will be traveling to Zambia, at their own expense for this occassion.
The Zambia Police Band, who still provide entertainment thoughout the country, have appealed for replacement Band instruments as the ones that they use have been in use since before 1964 and are now well past their sellby date! We are attempting to collect unwanted instruments which will be checked and where necessary repaired before being taken/shipped to Zambia.
If anyone reading this notice has an unwanted Trumpet/Cornet/Tuber etc or even a portable electric organ! which can be used by the dance section, or indeed any instruments at all which they would be willing to donate, then please contact me to discuss. Weare also in need of cash to help with the refurbishment/repair of those instruments already donated, and again should anyone wish to make a donation we would be more then delighted!
Jeremy Hawkins [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Seend, Wiltshire, United Kingdom
Monday, June 07, 2004 at 09:55:24 (UTC)
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Hi
I wonder if anyone can help. I have a friend and his family who are travelling from the UK to Zambia for three weeks at the end of July. They are going to visit their family in Mkushi and will spend some time on the farm in Mkushi, but then would like to have a holiday in Zambia as well. As the family they are going to visit have only been there a couple of years, having moved up from Zimbabwe, and have been working non stop, they haven't had time to discover any places to "chill out". Can anyone make any suggestions as to what three families with small children could do for a few days - Vic Falls? Kariba? What else?
Many thanks
Bridget
Bridget Billany [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Blackburn, Lancashire, England
Monday, June 07, 2004 at 08:43:58 (UTC)
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Linda,
I am here - hectically organising Pony Club International. Enjoy hol in California, GNR is getting lighter - thank goodness.
JP
Jill Aplin [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
South Africa
Sunday, June 06, 2004 at 21:08:59 (UTC)
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Tina,
Please email me with which address you want me to use for you. I think you said to use your hotmail address in an email over the last day or so, but I have deleted that by mistake. Sorry. I have an aol and a yahoo email address for you only.
Anybody heard from Jilly Aplin lately? She has gone quiet and not answering emails. You out there, Jilly?
Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Sunday, June 06, 2004 at 20:56:06 (UTC)
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The Shell map posted by Arthur is a blast . Bridges and dates are particularly interesting . I remember , as a little squirt in shorts and takkies , believing that the " Bite Bridge" was so named because it had no sides and had hundreds of crocs lying around underneath waiting for cars to drive over the edge ......
Doug Waybush [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Maryland, USA, and London, England
Sunday, June 06, 2004 at 19:57:21 (UTC)
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Doug Grewar
(self appointed ambassador from Swaziland to the GNR)
I last went to Swaziland in 1997 from Durban and went over Malagwane Hill on our way to the Royal Swazi Hotel. On our way up the hill traffic was very slow. Although the road is as good as any in SA, and a lot better than some, it is still a very bad route to drive. We were held up most of the way up the hill and as we neared the top we found out why. An old Morris Oxford ahead of us was battling to get up the hill and was slowing everything behind. Although traffic could get past, the heavy lorries were very slow because they had been held up and did not have the speed of other car and Buckkie (? Spelling). The Morris had about 10 people in it and was moving at a speed of about 10 miles per hour. Why would that cause so much traffic delay behind? Well everyone was slowing down to look or take photo of a vehicle being driven up a hill with the hood open, the driver with his head out of the window, shouting at a young 16/18 year old, who was operating the accelerator under the hood. All this was just after we had passed a small Buckkie with a bull standing in the back ( Got that on video Before the batteries went dead on me) The bull was so large that they had to build a wooden cage around it to stop it falling out. We saw two motorcycle cop having a good look but they did not stop or say anything. And what about those speed humps? I’ve seen smaller hill than them. I must admit that the country and the people are great and I had a wonderful time out there. I may go back again next year when I go out to see my brother and two sisters in SA. We will spend some time in and around the Cape as well.
Donald Sydney [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Bristol, Avon, United Kingdom
Sunday, June 06, 2004 at 19:08:20 (UTC)
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Doug
Surely you meant Whiskey and not Brandy (it’s the genes protesting). I still couldn’t see the mountains today as they were shrouded in low cloud, but the rains have finally arrived -- thank God for that! That, however, didn’t stop me from going to the chandamali to moto (dubula?) the old isibhamu yesterday. Now that’s a word I haven’t used for a long, long time- ‘chandamali’. Let’s see how many of our linguistic historians know the origins of that word (without starting another grate debate)! When you were farming in BH, did you know Blake Oelerman? I often wonder what happened to him. Likewise, when you were in Swaziland did you ever bump into an old pal of mine called Angus Buchan -- the farmer/preacher who used to play rugby for BH ? He also farmed seed maize, near Greytown, for many years. I haven’t seen Angus, a very charismatic chap, since the late 70s.
Arthur,
Good to see you’re still on board and baiting the hooks. Now - just to get a response from our Nederlandic founder the infamous Dawie.
Yo Dawie - wots up mate? Ou maat?
Regards
Charles Cartmill [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stellenridge, Cape Town, South Africa
Sunday, June 06, 2004 at 18:54:41 (UTC)
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Gill
Pengies told. You see the official answer to the: "Without lifting or propelling it how do you make a penguin fly" is:
"Half a bottle of Cape brandy and a couple of shots of Amarula ought to do it." They are all looking forward to spectacular July flights and hope they don't also break into penguin yodels.
Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Sunday, June 06, 2004 at 18:13:57 (UTC)
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Here is the link for the leopard and croc tale.......
http://www.halbrindley.com/tour/stories/13.html
.............enjoy..ali
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Sunday, June 06, 2004 at 17:58:34 (UTC)
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Tina
Tell all the penguins which hotel Wilma and Pete are attending for the party. There will be a mass exodus for the geneva chaser. Have you ever tried the ole raw herring trick, I have and it wasn't pleasant, managed about half and then turned totally birdy and started regurgitating rapidly. Mind you, have never seen a person move so fast, the fish stall owner shifted his wares at the speed of light. Don't worry though, didn't let the side down. Embarassment winning out over bravery!! Took quite a lot of geneva and cherry beer to bring colour back to my green gills though.
Gill Main [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Aberdeen, Scotland
Sunday, June 06, 2004 at 17:46:54 (UTC)
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Doug - used to travel to Swaziland on a regular basis to check on production afforded SIODC (Swaziland Iron Ore Development Company) by their URD 450 (Ingersoll-Rand "down -the-hole-drill) units back in 1967. Working as a production manager for IR out of Ashrode in Alberton, I managed to write off TWO cars in Swaziland during a 18 month period - I totalled a Toyota Corolla by slamming into an iron ore carrying truck, and a buggered beyond economic repair Hillman Hunter which I rolled several times coming back after working late one night (Ahem!) at the Swazi Spa casino! Perhaps the two most memorable aspects of my trips down there was the regular picking up of my monthly edition of "Playboy" (then still banned in SA) at the CNA (Central News Agency) just across the border, coming from Ermelo side to Mbabane, and my late nights working at the Swazi Spa where, with a cold case of beer and good company, we would spend hours late at night soaking in the hot water pools, drinking cold beer, mud squishing through our toes, beautiful clear starry skies up above, crickets chirping in the dark. After a few hours our skin would look like pale white prunes in the moonlight. I'm told that I always had a great time!
Glen Drake [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
California, United States
Sunday, June 06, 2004 at 17:44:56 (UTC)
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Hi everyone.
I wonder if anyone can help, especially from Mkushi.
My mother Alma Williams and my sister Camilla (from Broken Hill and Mkushi, 1960 - 1970) are coming up to Zambia in July for a visit. They'll be flying into Lusaka and hiring a car to drive up to Mkushi.
Some of their concerns are the condition of the road, available accomodation in Broken Hill (Kabwe - sorry, i forgot :-) and Mkushi (is the Mkushi hotel still there?). Any other advice would be greatly appreciated also.
My mother is 83 now so I think she is very courageous to undertake this journey. However they will have Camilla's two sons with them who are strapping young men :-)))
Thanks.
Martin Williams [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
South Africa
Sunday, June 06, 2004 at 15:02:27 (UTC)
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Don
Go to www.times.co.sz for Swazi news or
www.times.zm for Zambian news.
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Sunday, June 06, 2004 at 10:05:07 (UTC)
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Donald Sydney
I was suprised by your story about the bad driving habits of the Bristol folk. The natives are getting out of order, eh what!
When were you in Swaziland? I agree with you the road between Mbabane and Manzini used to be pretty hairy especialy the notorious Malagwane hill where many cars were turned into airplanes when they went off the edge.
You will recall that according to Swazi law your blood alcohol content has to be 0.85% (?) which is the highest in the world, before you can be convicted of drunk driving. This was obviously enacted by a benevolent government who realized that one had to have at least half a bottle of Brandy to face the hazards of the road. I suggest you make a similar proposal to the City Fathers of Bristol so driving conditions may be alleviated.
The first time I visited Swaziland in 1969 the tar only reached 5 miles from Manzini to Matsapha. From there on it was gravel. Today the whole road is an excellent motorway as good as the best in South Africa.
As one of the eccentrics of GNR, I am the self appointed ambassador from Swaziland to the GNR and would welcome any stories that you have to tell of my second home.
I hope my fellow eccentric, the honourable District Commissioner of Chinsali is keeping a beady eye on proceedings from his temple in China and I hope to see a posting from him soon.
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Sunday, June 06, 2004 at 09:45:06 (UTC)
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I have just heard the sad news that Ronald Reagan has rode off into the sunset for the last time. He was one of my favorite US presidents.
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Sunday, June 06, 2004 at 09:09:48 (UTC)
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Tina.........et al....
I have just joined a group of wildlife enthusiasts who's main interests are the rehabilitation of wildlife,last night I had the joy of looking at the picture files and came accross the Leopard and Croc pic.I sat there dumbfounded, amazed, and almost disbelieving at what I was looking at....so of course I just had to share this with friends etc..........Tina thanks for the information you found about Hal Brindley.........
back to finding more animal facts........
Ali
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Sunday, June 06, 2004 at 08:47:27 (UTC)
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Ali's found something unique in animal behaviour again.
She just forwarded an amazing animal photo sequence. The story to it turned out to be on the internet and here it is below. Ali I hope you can get that sequence posted. It's amazing.
"Never say you have seen it all and never say something is impossible and VeldFocus regularly delivers proof of that! And we’re going to do so once again with the story of the leopard and the crocodile.
Hal Brindley of Washington DC in the USA was too late to photograph the start of the incident at Sololweni Dam in the Kruger National Park. He was filming a hippo when a speeding shape suddenly hit the edge of the water... it was a leopard that launched an attack out of nowhere on an adult crocodile. Without knowing what was happening he kept on taking photos of the moving shapes, and what a sequence it turned out to be!
The leopard drags the crocodile up onto the shore where they wrestle in the dry dirt. The crocodile thrashes about, snaps its jaws and claws at the leopard’s belly. The croc is bigger than the leopard. Most probably also more powerful... but not nearly as agile as the cat is. Throughout the struggle the leopard maintains its grip on the side of the croc’s throat. Agility allows the leopard to exploit an opportunity to flip the croc on its back... and in this position the croc is just about helpless. Its tail, a lethal weapon, can not be swiped at the cat. Nor can it help propel the croc forward or help anchor it.
The leopard then heaved the crocodile into the bushes and beyond that. Hal did not witness the end of the affair but says that the croc appeared lifeless as it was dragged off. Crocodile is definitely not typical prey for any of the big cats.
We have before shown photos taken by Penelope Littlejohns, also from the USA, of a pride of lions attacking, killing and eating a crocodile at Lake Kariba in Zimbabwe. I can understand that a pride might succeed... but a lone leopard? Well, that takes some doing!
Was the leopard that hungry or is he perhaps a specialist croc hunter? Or was this just an opportunistic killing? Typically cat, leopards will catch and eat whatever they can... including dung beetles, grasshoppers, scorpions and even hyena. In fact 92 different prey species have been documented in their diet. The crocodile’s throat is its weakness. Here its scaly armor is reduced, probably to provide greater mobility for the head. But this makes the throat vulnerable... and as the photos show, this is exactly where the leopard secured his grip."
It turns out from the internet search that tigers, who are powerful swimmers are equally opportunistic - and have been known to hunt and eat Indian crocodiles.
Wow, Ali, amazing stuff.
Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Sunday, June 06, 2004 at 06:58:47 (UTC)
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I love riddles . . . . . . .
Riddle : "If little white birds bring little white babies and little black birds bring little black babies . . . . . what brings NO babies?"
Answer : "Swallows."
Glen Drake [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
California, United States
Saturday, June 05, 2004 at 19:12:26 (UTC)
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The head office in Scotland of a well-known trading firm was shocked to receive a cable from one of its Northern Rhodesian branches - "Please send four men to replace four men eaten by lions"
Before sending replacements, the head office cabled back - " Please cable details of accident".
The reply came - "No accident. The lions did it on purpose".
(from The Northern Rhodesia Journal)
Times were tough in the old days!
Bill Hunt [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Widenham, Natal, South Africa
Saturday, June 05, 2004 at 18:22:12 (UTC)
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Doug Grewar
Thanks for the mp3 of Cry to Me. Standout. Tommy Dell puts everything into that performance. Chills. Off to get the CD too. Talking of Zambians/South Africans with standout sets of pipes - Mike who did such a great belt out of "Walking By Myself/You know I love you" at Banbury please please get yourself recorded soon.
Sue C
Still writing - yes? What updates?
Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Saturday, June 05, 2004 at 17:26:44 (UTC)
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Keith Binns:
Thanks so much for posting that sign. I have had more fun with that this morning than trying to put ballerina shoes on a croc.
My sister is ultra conservative as far as anything outrageous goes (God saw fit to give me a mega dose instead..), so I made up a sign saying "Sheila Fewell of Whittier eats chongololos. Nasty!" and sent it off to her this morning. She will not figure it out first of all if I know her. I told her it is floating around on the internet at the moment. Since she works at a church, she will be mortified. I better duck when I go and visit her next week in California.
Ah, yes... it's good to see some light-hearted humour return to the GNR. More, please!
All you Bikers on the GNR:
You would have been in hog heaven (pardon the pun) if you were in Austin, Texas, last night. They held the annual "Republic of Texas" Biker Rally. Over 35,000 bikers from all over the country and even some from Europe were here. Every type of bike on the market was in town. And such an ecclectic group of bikers too! From the Nasty Boys down to Bikers for Christ. 18 yr olds through 80 yr olds. Mainly Harleys but any type of monster bike is welcome. Custom made bikes are very popular here, especially for the overweight retired couples that tour the country when their kids are gone. Lots of bands come to play and an amazing time is had by all. It normally generates mega millions of $ for the few days that they are here. And anything goes while they are here too. Most young girls are locked up at home for the duration. My hubby went with my 16yr old son and 2 of his friends. Had an amazing time. When I asked what stunts they had this year, my hubby piped up that the boys enjoyed the stunt where girls sit on top of males' shoulders and lift their shirts up to expose what they don't have on underneath in exchange for strings of beads. Not quite what I was hoping to hear. Hopefully my boy spent his money on ice cream instead...
Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Saturday, June 05, 2004 at 15:18:03 (UTC)
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A new malaria drug artesunate is becoming available. Its a rectal suppository so don't swallow by mistake.
I am listening to a CD of West Nkosi a Swazi saxophonist titled 'Help me make it through the night'. I have never heard of him before but his music is very good. Linda and Ali please email me your snail mail addresses so I can get Kalahari.net to send you a copy. It also has an instrumental of 'Cry to me'.
I also bought the CD 'The Heart & Soul of Tommy Dell' because it had 'Cry to me' the theme song from the film 'Katrina' on it. I am not a great lover of music because most of the modern stuff is kak but this has a lot of the old tunes on it and I realy enjoyed it. Tommy Dell is a Seth Efrican boykie.
The South African film Katrina told the story of an amper wit (almost white) coloured woman during the apartheid era who sent her blue eyed blonde haired son to UK to train as a doctor. He came back to South Africa started his medical practice and lived as a white, which he believed he was. His secret is finally discovered and disaster follows with Katrina commiting suicide.
I saw this film in the 1970's in South Africa and afterwards there wasn't a dry eye in the cinema. Shows that South Africans do have soul after all. It certainly affected me deeply.
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Saturday, June 05, 2004 at 13:18:00 (UTC)
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Northerners !
Apologies to everyone waiting for their contributions to go on the message board. My day job keeps getting in the way.
Using Peter Dielissen's underhand but very successful methods on E-bay just recently, I managed to get hold of this interesting Shell Gazetteer map of the Federation circa early 1960's for the GNR at a real good price.
Hope some of you will find it as interesting as I do, though be warned, it's a large image file, around 1.2 mB.
I'll ask Craig to intall it into the GNR Maps section at a later date.
CJ
I've done no fishing since Zambia - over 6 months now, but I have bought my licence today and as soon as I've posted this I'm off to find a few wily and rising brown trout for my tea. Good to hear you're feeling well enough to go out and do a bit of hunting yourself.
Hopefully I may get some time later this month to get back to the Broken Hill town map I'm working on.
Arthur
Hello Arthur,
I received the following scan from Hans Dielissen (Peter’s brother). It may be of some interest to Bhers on the board.
Regards
Charlie
Hi Arthur,
If you don’t think it is too silly perhaps you could post the attached photo on the site.
Someone sent me the attached as a funny.
If you think it is appropriate, maybe you could post it on the GNR site. I don’t have a message to go with it though!
All the best,
Keith Binns
Keith - not as silly as some of the postings I read over this morning ! - Arthur
I took this photograph of a majestic baobab tree in 1972 somewhere between the Zambian border and Salisbury, probably in the Mana Pools area.
As noted in the mid 70's by the Times of Zambia
"Mice taste better when cooked".
David Hoyle
But David, it's a southern bombe-zonke baobab - ugh! Arthur
Hi Artie
just came across this picture,
and low and behold a look at the flowers the Crown princess Mary is carrying flame lilies.a Zambian connection or what ????
ali
Arthur Steevens [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stockport, United Kingdom
Saturday, June 05, 2004 at 12:55:31 (UTC)
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Charles that doctor/ wife episode you mentioned I believe he poisoned his wife with a razor blade,
He gave her ARSENIC. Johnny
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Saturday, June 05, 2004 at 09:04:45 (UTC)
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More "Chat Speak" (Chat Abbreviations)
AFAIK -- As Far As I Know
AFK -- Away From Keyboard
ASAP -- As Soon As Possible
BAS -- Big A** Smile
BBL -- Be Back Later
BBN -- Bye Bye Now
BBS -- Be Back Soon
BEG -- Big Evil Grin
BF -- Boyfriend
BIBO -- Beer In, Beer Out
BRB -- Be Right Back
BTW -- By The Way
BWL -- Bursting With Laughter
C&G -- Chuckle and Grin
CICO -- Coffee In, Coffee Out
CID -- Crying In Disgrace
CNP -- Continued (in my) Next Post
CP -- Chat Post(a chat message)
CRBT -- Crying Real Big Tears
CSG -- Chuckle Snicker Grin
CYA -- See You (Seeya)
CYAL8R -- See You Later (Seeyalata)
DLTBBB -- Don't Let The Bed Bugs Bite
EG -- Evil Grin
EMSG -- Email Message
FC -- Fingers Crossed
FTBOMH -- From The Bottom Of My Heart
FYI -- For Your Information
FWIW -- For What It's Worth
GAL -- Get A Life
GF -- Girlfriend
GFN -- Gone For Now
GMBA -- Giggling My Butt Off
GMTA -- Great Minds Think Alike
GTSY -- Glad To See You
H&K -- Hug and Kiss
HABU -- Have A Better 'Un
HAGN -- Have A Good Night
HAGU -- Have A Good 'Un
HHIS -- Hanging Head in Shame
HUB -- Head Up Butt
IAE -- In Any Event
IC -- I See
IGP -- I Gotta Pee
IMNSHO -- In My Not So Humble Opinion
IMO -- In My Opinion
IMCO -- In My Considered Opinion
IMHO -- In My Humble Opinion
IOW -- In Other Words
IRL -- In Real Life
IWALU -- I Will Always Love You
JMO -- Just My Opinion
JTLYK -- Just To Let You Know
KIT -- Keep In Touch
KOC -- Kiss On Cheek
KOL -- Kiss On Lips
L8R -- Later
L8R -- G8R Later 'Gater
LHM -- Lord Help Me
LHO -- Laughing Head Off
LHU -- Lord Help Us
LMAO -- Laughing My A$$ Off
LMSO -- Laughing My Socks Off
LOL -- Laugh Out Loud
LSHMBB -- Laughing So Hard My Belly is Bouncing
LSHMBH -- Laughing So Hard My Belly Hurts
LSHTTARDML -- Laughing So Hard The Tears Are Running Down My Leg
LTNS -- Long Time No See
LTS -- Laughing To Self
LUWAMH -- Love You With All My Heart
LY -- Love Ya
MTF -- More To Follow
NRN -- No Reply Necessary
NADT -- Not A Darn Thing
OIC -- Oh, I See
OL -- Old Lady (significant other)
OM -- Old Man (significant other)
OTOH -- On The Other Hand
OTTOMH -- Off The Top of My Head
PDS -- Please Don't Shoot
PITA -- Pain In The A**
PM -- Private Message
PMFJI -- Pardon Me For Jumping In
PMP -- Peed My Pants
POAHF -- Put On A Happy Face
QSL -- Reply
QSO -- Conversation
QT -- Cutie
ROFL -- Rolling On Floor Laughing
ROFLAPMP -- ROFL And Peeing My Pants
ROFLMAO -- ROFL My A** Off
ROFLMAOAY -- ROFLMAO At You
ROFLMAOWTIME -- ROFLMAO With Tears In My Eyes
ROFLUTS ROFL -- Unable to Speak
RTFM Read The F****** Manual!
SETE -- Smiling Ear To Ear
SHID -- Slaps Head In Disgust
SNERT -- Snot-Nosed Egotistical Rude Teenager
SO -- Significant Other
SOT -- Short Of Time
SOTMG -- Short Of Time Must Go
SWAK -- Sealed With A Kiss
SWAS -- Scientific Wild A** Guess
SWL -- Screaming with Laughter
SYS -- See You Soon
TA -- Thanks Again
TGIF -- Thank God It's Friday
TCOY -- Take Care Of Yourself
TILII -- Tell It Like It Is
TNT -- Till Next Time
TOY -- Thinking Of You
TTFN -- Ta Ta For Now
TTYL -- Talk To You Later
WAS -- Wild A** Guess
WB -- Welcome Back
WTH What/Who The Heck (or sub an 'F' for the 'H')
YBS -- You'll Be Sorry
YG -- Young Gentleman
YL -- Young Lady
YM -- Young Man
Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Saturday, June 05, 2004 at 07:23:28 (UTC)
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Well Good Morning All
Maastricht calling, I am glad to see that a bit of humor has returned to the site. I am really pleased to be able to page through and have a good laugh. That is the object of this site?
I saw on the Mufulira site that there will be a re-union in Wales in July. I contacted Lyn Howell and as she is not yet!! a member and did not know about this site, I offered to put the details on gnr for her, as there might be a bit of interest from you lot in the UK
Thank you. Reunion to be held at..
The Greenacre,
Heol Fach,
North Cornelly, Nr Pyle, Bridgend, Glam, S.Wales {M4 to Pyle}
When..July 23rd [friday] at 7pm.
Buffet 5 pounds per head. Need to know numbers for the food. If we
get enough people I wll organise some music. Thank you.
Lyn
Her email address is lynhowell@hotmail.com
I may even go over myself for this event. Please contact her if you are interested.
Now about my weekend. The new Haring (raw herring fish) has arrived and this is a big occassion in Holland and we have been invited to one of the hotels that I use for my company and they are having this party and we will be attending not that I eat this raw fish, but Pete loves it. It has a geneva (dutch gin) chaser with it so a great time should be had by all, I think that we will be walking into town today.
Well folks have a great weekend and speak to you all soon.
Love Wilma
Wilma Wall (née Henry) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Almelo, Netherlands
Saturday, June 05, 2004 at 07:21:55 (UTC)
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Doug
Thanks Doug. That was the name given to our first dog and somewhere along the way we must have dropped the 'chi'.
Anona Balloch [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
United Kingdom
Saturday, June 05, 2004 at 06:00:22 (UTC)
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Craig
Pretty fly for a white guy.
Anyone else?
Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Saturday, June 05, 2004 at 05:48:48 (UTC)
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Chris and Peter,
Chris, thanks for reminding me what I forgot to tell Peter on Thursday night, that being that there is a Hooters in Vancouver. We were informed last month (I think it was, or maybe it was in April) that the one in Surrey (Vancouver suburb of sorts) closed down for one reason or another, but as I was driving along Robson Street in downtown Vancouver on my way to meet Peter, I saw the Hooters there. I had forgotten about that one.
Tina,
Well, first you have a daddy Penguin Fly and a mommy Penguin Fly, and they love each other and want to make a baby Penguin Fly....
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Saturday, June 05, 2004 at 05:24:14 (UTC)
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Ok, without putting it in a flying machine of any sort or lifting it with a flying animal or launching it with a catapult or similar device or, (for the scientifically minded) letting it flap or "fly" under water - how can you make a penguin fly?
Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Saturday, June 05, 2004 at 05:13:36 (UTC)
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All this talk about mobile phones...
Hands Free Cancer
------------------------------
How stupid do you feel
standing there,
talking to yourself?
Immaculately dressed,
the epitome of elegance.
Power stance with eyes distant,
he breathes money.
How stupid does he look
emphasizing his point
to the argumentative air?
(from my book...)
Sue Coughlan (née Forde) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, WA, Australia
Saturday, June 05, 2004 at 02:58:15 (UTC)
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Hi all
Driving in Perth whilst talking on your mobile phone has been a no no for sometime..an on the spot fine of $100 ..how ever, driving in the city the other day with Gavan, he said turnaround and look at this, there in a police car was this police officer merrily chatting away on a mobile phone whilst driving.hmm.............
Ali
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Saturday, June 05, 2004 at 02:22:59 (UTC)
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Craig posts
Ahem... Chris,
Throwing all caution to the wind as I have been drinking with Peter Dielissen all evening...
How's the view from the porch?
Clearly not as good as the view from Hooters in Vancouver. Hooters in Honolulu are gearing up for Yukon Pete's visit, as is the rest of Waikiki for his arrival here soon. By the time he arrives here, Vancouver might just be on the verge of recovery??
Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Saturday, June 05, 2004 at 01:24:52 (UTC)
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I agree with all the postings re-mobile phones and I’m sure driving in Kitwe is no fun, but have you ever tried driving in Bristol UK. In Bristol we have lanes. No one knows why we have lanes so drivers don’t use them. They drive where they feel like driving. Those who do use lanes have things called indicators. These are small lights on each side of the car that tell others on the road that the driver wants to move into another lane, as it is his/her right to do so, and you better get out of the way because they are coming across anyway. There are white lines at traffic lights (Robots) to inform you where you should NOT stop according to Bristol drivers. Cars normally stop with both wheels across the line, still edging forward, or the stop two car lengths short of the white line, then pull away so slow that they are the only ones to get through the lights. The lights are red for edge forward with amber and Green for go. Speed limits are there to give some work to the sign makers and are only used by the police to top up their funds. Pavements are for parking on, and if my vehicle is parked so that it overlaps the junction, then you better not damage it when you try to get around the corner. Taxi’s have the right to hold up traffic for as long as they like when waiting outside an address, beeping on the horn for the passenger who thinks "to hell with them, why should I hurry". Police, Fire and Ambulance use two’s and blues (blue lights and two tone horns) to get traffic to move out of the way. Bristol drivers think to hell with them, I paid my road tax I have the right to be here. If they are in such a hurry then they should use some other road. They also sit behind the two’s & blues to get through thr traffic.I would rather drive in London than in Bristol. This from someone who has driven on the road between Manzini and Mbabane in Swaziland. (In the records book as the worst road in the world).
Donald Sydney [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Bristol, Avon, United Kingdom
Friday, June 04, 2004 at 22:19:14 (UTC)
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To lighten things up.
Fun Puns
-- Those who jump off a bridge in Paris are in Seine.
-- A backward poet writes inverse.
-- A man's home is his castle, in a manor of speaking.
-- Dijon vu - the same mustard as before.
-- Practice safe eating - always use condiments.
-- Shotgun wedding: A case of wife or death.
-- A man needs a mistress just to break the monogamy.
-- A hangover is the wrath of grapes.
-- Dancing cheek-to-cheek is really a form of floor play.
-- Does the name Pavlov ring a bell?
-- Condoms should be used on every conceivable occasion.
-- Reading while sunbathing makes you well red.
-- When two egotists meet, it's an I for an I.
-- A bicycle can't stand on its own because it is two tired.
-- What's the definition of a will? (It's a dead giveaway.)
-- Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
-- In democracy your vote counts. In feudalism your count votes.
-- She was engaged to a boyfriend with a wooden leg but broke it off!
-- A chicken crossing the road is poultry in motion.
-- If you don't pay your exorcist, you get repossessed.
-- With her marriage, she got a new name and a dress.
-- When a clock is hungry, it goes back four seconds.
-- The man who fell into an upholstery machine is fully recovered.
-- You feel stuck with your debt if you can't budge it.
-- Local Area Network in Australia: the LAN down under.
-- He often broke into song because he couldn't find the key.
-- Every calendar's days are numbered.
-- A lot of money is tainted - It taint yours and it taint mine.
-- A boiled egg in the morning is hard to beat.
-- He had a photographic memory that was never developed.
-- A plateau is a high form of flattery.
-- A midget fortune-teller who escapes from prison is a small medium
at large.
-- Once you've seen one shopping center, you've seen a mall.
-- Bakers trade bread recipes on a knead-to-know basis.
-- Santa's helpers are subordinate clauses.
-- Acupuncture is a jab well done.
Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Friday, June 04, 2004 at 22:01:48 (UTC)
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Hey, I agree with the use of mobile phones in cars - you only have to look at the idiots riding around here with their mobiles glued to their ears and the brain somewhere else. But Zambia leading the way - do you suppose that UK and USA will follow our lead? There again, I'd rather not spend even 1 day in Kamfinsa! A few weeks ago, stopped at a regular road block in Kitwe (road tax, tyres, fitness and can I look in your boot) the officer told me then that he could arrest me for smoking. I disputed it and generally talked my way out of it - as you do - it was checked up on with the powers that be and it wasn't law then but unbeknownst to us lesser mortals, it was obviously in the pipeline. And don't throw your fag out of the window - they'll book you for littering as well. Mobile I can well do without but driving in Kitwe, one needs a cigarette to calm the nerves!
Lizd [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
United Kingdom
Friday, June 04, 2004 at 20:37:53 (UTC)
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I wonder if anyone can help me with the following..
A former teacher of mine at boarding school in Wales passed away two weeks ago. His name was GERRY COCHRANE. He lived in either Bulawayo or Salisbury (Harare) in the 1940's. He later moved to Luanshya ..during that period. Mr Cochrane played Rugby for the Rhodesian National side and later went on to earn International caps for his native Scotland. He also played first division football in the Scottish League for Hearts. His son, Michael, is currently gathering as much information about his dad as he can and has requested me if I could make inquiries on the GNR board. Can anyone help or know of someone who might be able to oblige? Thanks
Ayub Ismail Zumla [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Manchester, United Kingdom
Friday, June 04, 2004 at 19:23:58 (UTC)
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Ayub - yes indeed - the use of a mobile phone can be dangerous whilst one is driving. One doesn't even have to use a phone - all one needs do is be distracted, even only for a second.
A good friend of mine while driving looked back over his shoulder and turned into a telephone pole! Geez - even in the bible we read that while fleeing Sodom and Gomorrah Lot's wife turned around and she turned into a pillar of salt!
Glen Drake [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
California, United States
Friday, June 04, 2004 at 19:17:16 (UTC)
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Lizd
Anyone using a mobile phone whilst driving should be locked up! It is extremely dangerous as it puts other drivers lives at risk. Recently a Company Salesman lost concertration whilst on his mobile phone and caused the deaths of three people on the M6 Motorway. According to the Police it is a deadly weapon!
Doug
Mumbai was the original name of Bombay. The previous Indian Government (led by the extreme Hindu Nationalist Party BJP) renamed many cities..so Madras is now called Chennai..Culcutta is referred to as Kolkata etc. India would have had an Italian flavour had Sonia G accepted the post of PM...maybe we would have had the Mafia setting up base in Mumbai...or even a Leaning Taj Mahal!! And Bollywood would be making Spaghetti Westerns by the hundred!!
Ayub Ismail Zumla [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Manchester, United Kingdom
Friday, June 04, 2004 at 18:44:24 (UTC)
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Reading my last posting, it looks like my English is not so hot either.
The first snow of our southern winter will fall on the Cape mountains tomorrow.
Charles, you better lay in stocks of firewood and Brandy and Biltong to survive, my friend. Vryheid tonight is dropping to 0c but Vereeniging is down to - 4c. Yugh!
Everybody, lets raise a fund to bail Heather out!
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Friday, June 04, 2004 at 18:34:04 (UTC)
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Anona
I don't know the Bemba word 'pongwe', but in Chinyanja 'chipongwe' means cheeky or insolent.
Ayub
Re new Indians coming to Zambia there is the story about who was sending 25% of his wages every month back to his family in Mumbai. The first month he got 2000 rupees. He was very pleased the second moth to get 2300 rupees. However when he only got 1700 rupees on the third month he went to the bank manager and complained bitterly in his poor english. The manager patiently explained it was because of fluctuations. 'What you saying"? asks Patel. "FLUC-TU-ATIONS!" repeats the bank manager loudly. This is too much for Patel and he shouts, "FLUCT- U- EUROPEANS as well.
Tell me since Bombay has become Mumbai why is Bollywood not Mollywood?
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Friday, June 04, 2004 at 18:18:52 (UTC)
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David Hoyle
"Chris, are you saying that this subject has been fully discussed in the past and is now closed for further discussion? As a new member of the GNR ( 7 months ) I don't think I can be expected to know all the different topics that have been discussed."
No, absolutely no intention in that direction at all. Perhaps several years ago, we did go around this mulberry bush and I think it may have been Heather who wrote something about the then current status of the project. I am hoping she will do it again.
"Your reply sounded more like a teacher than a banker."
Perhaps you are more preceptive than you yourself even realised. I did teach for a lot of years. Subject? Banking!! what else?
"My "I remember" on Chinese products was tins of Beans with Pork. After thinking that the only beans on this planet were of course Heinz, I have to admit that the first time I tasted the Chinese variety I didn't think very much about the quality. Eventually the hard, crunchy beans and 2 pieces of bacon fat (pork?) grew on me and even today I no longer choose the soft (soggy) Heinz variety, give me Ma Ling beans at any time."
Ah yes, Chinese consumer goods on the shelves, everywhere. Remember the "Great Wall" brand? Their apricot jam was splendid, as was the bully beef. The arrival of the Chinese goods provided some relief from the shortages that were beginning to take shape in the country. I have several black and white photos taken at the Lusaka Agricultural Show in the late sixties. At the entrance was a statue of chairman Mao - massive, perhaps 12' tall. The consumer goods were displayed in virtually every booth/stand. It was the very first time I saw a Video Tape machine (the now ubiquitos VCR machine) in action, at the Philips stand used by TVZ.
Standard Bank had a stand there as well, and won a prize for the Best (something or other??) I spent many hours manning the stand along with the Training Centre manager who came down from Luanshya for the event.
Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Friday, June 04, 2004 at 18:04:56 (UTC)
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Liz,
No wonder we haven't heard much from Heather lately.
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Friday, June 04, 2004 at 17:52:49 (UTC)
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Thank goodness there's some light-hearted chat on the board now. Talk about boring....
Here's a little snippet which I assume is from the Times of Zambia a day or two ago: it's now a fineable offense to smoke whilst driving your car and not only is it an offense to use your mobile, you can be sent to jail for 31 days! Bit harsh I feel!
Lizd [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
United Kingdom
Friday, June 04, 2004 at 17:43:41 (UTC)
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Fiona,
Sorry to shatter your reverie there. I think that ROTFPML is one step beyond ROTFLMAO. :)
Gill,
Loved the pun. :)
Charlie,
I was going to tell you that Peter had one more beer than me and explain why, but he beat me to it. But what he was drinking I wouldn't even class as beer, I'm afraid. See the fifth word in "ROTFPML".
Peter,
I'm sure it was you who knocked my beer over! Have to agree that the moving scenery was spectacular. ;)
David,
I didn't get that from Chris' comment. Unfortunately there is no search feature on the site at the moment, but if there was you could search the archived message boards to get up to speed on some of the previous discussions, including what Heather posted about the current state of rail affairs there. Perhaps Heather might have a rough idea of when she posted that.
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Friday, June 04, 2004 at 17:23:43 (UTC)
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Refer my input on the ZamTan Railway.
Chris Tamm writes:
The last time we went around this, I think Heather brought us up to date.....
Chris, are you saying that this subject has been fully discussed in the past and is now closed for further discussion? As a new member of the GNR ( 7 months ) I don't think I can be expected to know all the different topics that have been discussed.
Your reply sounded more like a teacher than a banker.
Chinese products.
My "I remember" on Chinese products was tins of Beans with Pork. After thinking that the only beans on this planet were of course Heinz, I have to admit that the first time I tasted the Chinese variety I didn't think very much about the quality. Eventually the hard, crunchy beans and 2 pieces of bacon fat (pork?) grew on me and even today I no longer choose the soft (soggy) Heinz variety, give me Ma Ling beans at any time.
David Hoyle [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Muscat, Oman
Friday, June 04, 2004 at 16:05:50 (UTC)
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Northeners...
All this talk about gays on the board....
I went to reach for Craig's hand last night during dinner and he spilled his beer all over me. Boy, is he getting edgy!!!
We had a great night and the view from our terrace seats was spectacular. The sunset over the mountains was not bad either....
Peter Dielissen [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
Friday, June 04, 2004 at 13:15:26 (UTC)
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Charles
Thanks, re the Brinn photo......I'm in no hurry.
Northerners
Can anyone tell me what the Bemba word 'PONGWE' means?
Anona Balloch [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
United Kingdom
Friday, June 04, 2004 at 12:37:47 (UTC)
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Craig,
Watch out for Peter -- he learnt to drink at Boon’s Bar under the watchful eye of Billy Blake -- the publican. Boon’s had very strict rules regarding drinking underage, and one had to be on one’s best behaviour at all times -- disregarding how the ‘old kids’ behaved. Now we're all in the category of 'old kid'!
Thanks for explaining ‘ROTFPML’ -- it was just the two letters on either side of the ‘F’ that confused me.
Peter D,
Peter Erasmus sends his regards to you and your boet.
Johnny G
Husband (a doctor) and his wife are having a fight at the breakfast table.
Husband gets up in a rage and says, "And you are no good in bed either," and storms out of the house.
After sometime he realizes he was nasty and decides to make amends and rings her up. She comes to the phone after many rings, and the irritated husband
says, "what took you so long to answer the phone?"
She says, "I was in bed."
"In bed this early, doing what?"
"Getting a second opinion!"
Regards
Charles Cartmill [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stellenridge, Cape Town, South Africa
Friday, June 04, 2004 at 12:35:01 (UTC)
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Well said Barbara,
maybe now we can get on with enjoying the site again,instead of it being used as a front for political or what ever kind of cr-p people choose to use it for.Are we really interested in what K.K.did?is he a member of this site?I don`t think so.
Pappy Papier [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Glasgow, United Kingdom
Friday, June 04, 2004 at 10:07:27 (UTC)
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Barbara HERE HERE, Johnny.
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Friday, June 04, 2004 at 09:51:45 (UTC)
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Oh, Thank God, a bit of light relief (no pun intended) Craig and Peter - hope you are both having a great time.
Gill Main [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Aberdeen, Scotland
Friday, June 04, 2004 at 09:26:43 (UTC)
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Robert
Ah! See what u mean. The Doctorates I mention were awarded to him at a later stage in his Rule! The one you refer to must have been awarded earlier. I know I attended my brother's graduation ceremony at UNZA in around 1980 and KK ,being the Chancellor, was in his full UNZA attire (gown and all)..meaning he was already a Honourary UNZA Degree holder by then. I will send u the link where all his Doctorates are listed. Cheers!
Ayub Ismail Zumla [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Manchester, United Kingdom
Friday, June 04, 2004 at 09:13:39 (UTC)
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Craig, Craig!! And you used to be such a nice boy! I prefer ROFLMAO myself. Nice to have a laugh after all the boring verbal diarhea that has been on this board lately. Ayub, Chris etc, please put a cork in it.
Fiona Gayther (née Ferguson) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tytherington, Gloucestershire, United Kingdom
Friday, June 04, 2004 at 08:09:28 (UTC)
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ROTFPML
Apparently I haven't had enough to drink to screw up my HTML tags. That's good; must be below 0.08. :)
For all those who are wondering what "ROTFPML" stands for, it means "rolling on the floor pissing myself laughing".
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Friday, June 04, 2004 at 07:17:26 (UTC)
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Ahem... Chris,
Throwing all caution to the wind as I have been drinking with Peter Dielissen all evening...
How's the view from the porch?
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Friday, June 04, 2004 at 07:14:57 (UTC)
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On the first day God created the cow. God said, "You must go to the field
with the farmer all day long and suffer under the sun, have calves and give
milk to support the farmer. I will give you a life span of sixty years. The
cow said, "That's kind of a tough life if you want me to live for sixty
years. Let me have twenty-five and I'll give back the other thirty-five."
And God agreed.
On the second day God created the dog. God said, "Sit all day by the door
of your house and bark at anyone who comes in or walks past. I will give you
a life span of twenty years." The dog said, "That's too long to be barking.
Give me ten years and I'll give you back the other ten.." So God agreed
(sigh).
On the third day God created the monkey. God said, "Entertain people, do
monkey tricks, make them laugh. I'll give you a twenty year life span." The
monkey said, "How boring, monkey tricks for twenty years? I don't think so.
Dog gave you back ten, so that's what I'll do too, okay?" And God agreed
again.
On the fourth day God created man. God said, "Eat, sleep, play, have sex,
enjoy. Do nothing, just enjoy life, and enjoy. I'll give you twenty-five
years." Man said, "What? Only twenty-five years! No way, man. Tell you what,
I'll take my twenty-five, and the thirty-five the cow gave back, and the ten
the dog gave back and the ten the monkey gave back, that makes eighty,
okay?" "Okay," said God. "You've got a deal."
So that is why the first twenty-five years we eat, sleep, play, have sex,
enjoy life, and do nothing; for the next thirty-five years we slave in the
sun to support our family; for the next ten years we do monkey tricks to
entertain the grandchildren; and for the last ten years we sit on the front
porch and bark at everyone.
Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Friday, June 04, 2004 at 03:27:35 (UTC)
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Ayub,
I don't think I am wrong. KK received his first Hon. Doc. and used it as a title before the establishment of the University of Zambia. You can look it up.
Robert Huntley [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Carmel, California, United States
Friday, June 04, 2004 at 01:09:19 (UTC)
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and snails..........
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Friday, June 04, 2004 at 00:22:10 (UTC)
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Ken
Naah. Worms are hermaphrodite.
Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Thursday, June 03, 2004 at 23:46:30 (UTC)
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Please, please,please can the message board go back to the light hearted banter it once was. For nearly two months now it has been boring and tedious. I keep hoping that if I leave it for a couple of weeks and come back to it all the nonsense will have stopped. I thought it was to exchange pleasantries, renew old friendships and to keep the memories alive. The site is going to lose alot of its good members. Please could the site administrators do something before any more damage is done to the reputation of the site.
Barbara Doherty [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Cardiff, Wales, United Kingdom
Thursday, June 03, 2004 at 21:41:04 (UTC)
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Glen your message on gays in Africa made me giggle -
was in Hillbrow in 79, off we went for a bevvy one night. A very tall, beautifully adorned blonde sitting in the corner. We received our drinks and just as I took a swig of my glass of wine "she" decided to speak - bleeding hell, it was Thor the God of Thunder!! Suffice to say I ended up wearing what I was supposed to be drinking (things like this should not happen to a preppie from Muf.
My Dad came from Muf for a heart op later on in the year so off we went to grab some scoff. This rather divine looking young man came and joined our table, when he went off to the bar for a drink Dad mentioned that perhaps he had "his eye" on me, which was strange as I was with my boyfriend. Anyway, Dad went off to "shed a tear for Napolean" closely followed by (yup, you guessed it), by this time I was getting a bit edgy and was actually counting down the seconds - they both came out laughing their heads off - he had hit on my dad in the loo. Dad was in his element, stating "I am over 60 years old and that is the first time another man has ever propositioned me, he must have a father fixation.!!! Bless him.
Gill Main [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Aberdeen, Scotland
Thursday, June 03, 2004 at 19:07:43 (UTC)
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TAN-ZAM RAILWAY..
The World bank Mission's report on the North-East rail Link (1964) rejected the scheme on economic grounds...ie. that existing facilities at that time at Beira, LM (Maputo) and Lobito were "adequate,cheap and effecient". Approaches were made by the Zambian Government at that time (to help build the railway) to Britain, France,West Germany, the USA and China. the latter obliged.
Ayub Ismail Zumla [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Manchester, United Kingdom
Thursday, June 03, 2004 at 19:04:55 (UTC)
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Robert...
Heath...Yes...slip of the toungue!!
Dr Kaunda..
With regards his honourary Doctorates your infornation is not correct. KK received his Doctorate from UNZA (University of Zambia) many years ago and also has,amongst others, received honourary Doctorates in Law from
1) York University,UK
2)University of Wales,Cardiff
3) Fordham University
4) Windsor (Canada)
5)Sussex University UK.
6) and a number of others eg . Chile
Appears he has more Doctorates that I have had hot dinners!
Ayub Ismail Zumla [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Manchester, United Kingdom
Thursday, June 03, 2004 at 18:47:20 (UTC)
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David Hoyle recalls:
I have more to post on the effect that Chinese goods had on my life (later) but it is of note that the World bank at the time would not entertain this project as it was considered "not viable" but the Chinese thought was different and they completed the rail link to zambia. I know that there are experts on "Railways in Zambia" so I will leave it to them for confirmation but I believe that the Chinese used a rail gauge that was not compatible with any existing African railway systems.
Whilst I am not any fundi here, I recall that the project was considered a white elephant for a variety of reasons - not least of which was the actual need for it when viewed in the light of existing railways to the ports which were not only adequate but well underutilised.
The gauge issue was a real problem in Tanzania. The Zambia system ran on 3'6" gauge, but the East African system ran on 4'8". So the question was where to end the Tazara in or near Dar, and how to transfer the cargo from one to the other to allow loading/unloading of the ships.
The last time we went around this, I think Heather brought us up to date on the current state, and current usage of the railway. I have forgotten it unfortunately.
Heather?
Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Thursday, June 03, 2004 at 18:41:03 (UTC)
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Gays in Africa? They're everywhere, always have been, always will be. Look at Sodom & Gommorah, Alexander the Great etc. etc. The Theater was riddled with them (probably still is).The defense for this was that the female parts were at one time all played by men(?).Hollywood most certainly was and probably is as I write. James Dean, Rock Hudson, Montgomery Cliff et al. There were also some very famous people who married and had children, all in the attempt to hide their sexual orientation. Oscar Wilde, Charles Laughton, Anthony Perkins, to name but a few. So what's all the fuss about? It appears that the only ones making a fuss are the deviants themselves who demand same-sex marriages. Bet this'll open a can o' worms.
Ken Fernie [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Irvine, California, United States
Thursday, June 03, 2004 at 18:19:06 (UTC)
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Ayub Zumla,
Edward Heath's comment on Tiny Rowland was;
"He expresses the UNACCEPTABLE face of capitalism."
Mr/Dr Tembo,
Kenneth Kaunda's Honorary Doctorate was awarded to him by an obscure bible school in the American south, not the University of Zambia.
You also made mention of the fight for Zambian independence, or words to that effect. There was no fight. The Colonial Office basically shut up shop on the Federation and determined that both Northern Rhodesia and Nyasaland would achieve self government at the wish and time dicated by the British Government. There was no fighting against the military, the only violence in support of UNIP's call for independence, was the burning to death of Mrs. Burton on the Ndola Road.
Robert Huntley [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Carmel, California, United States
Thursday, June 03, 2004 at 17:35:09 (UTC)
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Linda,
It must have been quite an experience to go on holiday to Kapiri Mposhi as most of the expats who were stationed there were trying to leave to come and live in the nearest civilised town which was of course, Kabwe. GBK as we used to say. I hope you enjoyed your trip round the Kapiri glass plant as I guess at the time of your visit that the manufacture of Coca Cola bottles was the biggest thing in the area. However if your visit was late 1973 early 1974 you probably had chance to visit the new railway station at the Zambian end of the Chinese funded Zambia/Tanzania Railway. I have more to post on the effect that Chinese goods had on my life (later) but it is of note that the World bank at the time would not entertain this project as it was considered "not viable" but the Chinese thought was different and they completed the rail link to zambia. I know that there are experts on "Railways in Zambia" so I will leave it to them for confirmation but I believe that the Chinese used a rail gauge that was not compatible with any existing African railway systems.
David Hoyle [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Muscat, Oman
Thursday, June 03, 2004 at 16:52:44 (UTC)
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Glen,
ROTFPML!
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Thursday, June 03, 2004 at 16:50:20 (UTC)
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Mwizenge - gays in Africa? No such thing.
A very good friend of mine on the Copperbelt had the reputation of being gay but "somehow" managed to get a lovely young lady pregnant. There was a lot of "Geez, I could have sworn that . . . " and "I don't believe it, he must have been ambidextrous or bilingual or something and we never knew it!" etc., etc., for weeks afterwards. Several months before the baby's birth the two married and ventured off to start a new life in Harare.
I traveled Europe and some years later (in 1966) found myself en route to Australia via Harare and Bulawayo. Whilst in Harare I'm walking down the main street and lo-and-behold I bump into my friend. We immediately both agreed that a beer and a "catch-up" chat was in order and we sat in the Coq d'Or lounge whilst we exchanged war stories. It soon became obvious to me that he was pretty depressed, seemed out of his wits about being unemployed, not happy at all. After trying to console him that life wasn't really that bad and that he was still young and that he should perhaps think of moving to South Africa to look for employment he seemed more at ease. He invited me to have dinner at his home to meet his wife and his TWO kids! So off we went to his house in the suburbs. I met his wife and kids and we chatted for a while about the good old mine club sundowner days of the past. Very soon his wife was sitting next to me on the couch, her one arm around my neck whilst playing with the buttons of my shirt. When she whispered something pretty lewd in my ear I just couldn't take any further embarrassment so I asked my friend to take me back to town. Whilst in the car I spluttered out some pathetic sort of apology to my friend explaining to him that I wasn't in the habit of trying to take married women to bed, let alone his wife. That was when said, "Now Glen, do you understand why I'm miserable about life in general?" to which I responded "You bet I do, if my wife tried to make out with friends I took home I'd divorce her!" He then said, "She's being doing this to me since day one Glen. Every guy I like and take home she ends up taking to bed before I do. I'm sick of it!"
Glen Drake [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
California, United States
Thursday, June 03, 2004 at 16:23:19 (UTC)
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David....
Yes... At one time he was close to KK as he was to a number of other African leaders. Think Edward Heath once referred to him as "..the acceptable face of Capitalism"!
Ayub Ismail Zumla [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Manchester, United Kingdom
Thursday, June 03, 2004 at 16:12:04 (UTC)
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Ayub,
I noticed that in your posting of 1st June that you have referred to advisors who were closest and trusted by KK and one of them is Rowland. Question please, are you referring to Tiny Rowland as in Lonrho?
David Hoyle [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Muscat, Oman
Thursday, June 03, 2004 at 16:06:31 (UTC)
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Linda..not only can I balance 20 coins on my elbow and flip 'em, I can ,blindfolded as well....... ; 0 )
you and Tina will be more than welcome to come here to do the initiation...
Charlie .....I hope your parents have a wonderful Anniversary today..........I agree Artie has been too silent....
Ali
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Thursday, June 03, 2004 at 14:22:15 (UTC)
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