The Great North Road. Click here to go to the home page.

Northern Rhodesians Worldwide

Message Board

Random Boma links:
MESSAGE BOARD MENU:
[ Current messages ] [ Archived messages ] [ Add photos ] [ Important notes & tips ] [ Lost passwords ]



Linda

I think it's possibly down to Tim's guard outside Mopani (the really obnoxious one)

Northerners

For my next posting you will all need a Wind-up gramaphone (one with a nice scratchy needle).

Be prepared !

Arthur


Arthur Steevens [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stockport, United Kingdom
Tuesday, August 31, 2004 at 23:39:53 (UTC)

Craig - as we have already seen on GNR, Mubita Nawa is nothing more than a con-artist on the make for a quick buck. I responded to his Saturday, May 22, 2004 at 01:14:44 (UTC) meaningless posting and the subsequent shameless promotion on GNR of his book by Anona Balloch on Monday, May 24, 2004 at 14:10:55 (UTC).
The charlatan Mubita even goes as far as to have himself depicted as Jesus Christ. A picture of him on his website, arms outstretched, replaces "T" in his name (Mubi-T-a) to appear as if he were the Christ. I find the latter particularly distasteful.
The only advantage I can see in his postings is that it allows the rest of us to see him for what he really is.




Glen Drake [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
California, United States
Tuesday, August 31, 2004 at 22:08:02 (UTC)

Tim Henderson (or anyone who can pass this message to him, please?)

I received your email this morning but when I respond back on the same email, I get an undeliverable message back. It has happened to all the other emails I have tried to send to you, or respond on yours.

It always says this:

The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----

(reason: 550 5.7.1 Access denied)

Transcript of session follows:
while talking to pop3.zamtel.zm.:
MAIL From:
550 5.7.1 Access denied
554 5.0.0 Service unavailable

Either you have blocked me (inadvertently of course.. grin) or there is still something that is not working on your email address?

Please contact me through the GNR contact below and I will try to resend by that method? Thanks.

Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Tuesday, August 31, 2004 at 21:01:23 (UTC)

Esther P, poking at something:
If you have nothing nice to say - then don't say it at all.
"A little rich I reckon"

So what do YOU have to say Esther baby? Were you particularly motivated by someone who walks in through the door spouting Ghandi, Newton, and God? Wouldn't you rather he addressed his history with Banklays Bark Zambia?

Sheesh, hardly a wonder we have 1689 lurkers around here.



Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Tuesday, August 31, 2004 at 18:50:33 (UTC)

Zambian Army Ants
Can anyone identify the two types of ant belonging to ( I think) the species of what I knew as Matabele Ant?
One type was the larger & apart from giving off an awful pong, imparted a nasty sting or bite. This type also seemed to roam in relatively small numbers.
The other smaller type specie moved about in large columns & if threatened, created a collective & loud warning buzz & woud attack any & everything in their path.

Talking of stings - has anyone experienced the sting of the Buffalo Bean bush found in the NR shlateen?

Bill Hunt [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Widenham, Natal, South Africa
Tuesday, August 31, 2004 at 18:44:43 (UTC)

Well Done Craig!
I know I speak for many when I say thank you for your continued contribution of time and energy - not to mention the lost revenue...

Sue Coughlan (née Forde) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, WA, Australia
Tuesday, August 31, 2004 at 15:07:51 (UTC)

Mubita,

Your post has nothing to do with Northern Rhodesia / Zambia, and seems to be little more than a promotion for a monthly newsletter of some kind. This is not a forum for the promotion of businesses of any sort, no matter how altruistic they may seem.


Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Tuesday, August 31, 2004 at 12:31:25 (UTC)

Sorry, but this time I'm with Chris Tamm. Mutiba's posting is very far from relevant to this message board i.e. NOT Germane

Fiona Gayther (née Ferguson) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tytherington, Gloucestershire, United Kingdom
Tuesday, August 31, 2004 at 12:02:07 (UTC)

Recent Site Updates:

August 31st, 2004:
  • Made the full GNR membership list available once again. This will take a bit longer to download over slower connections. Maiden names have been left out of the list due to privacy concerns raised by some members, but upon the completion of the enhancements described below they will once again be available to members only, but not to the general public.
  • A multitude of other enhancements to the Names Directory, including privacy and usability enhancements, are in development. Many are completed, but can't be rolled out until all are completed because they are interconnected and rely on some fundamental changes required in the structure of the database. I hope to have these in place by the end of September.


Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Tuesday, August 31, 2004 at 10:25:11 (UTC)

Chris Tamm

If you have nothing nice to say - then don't say it at all.
"A little rich I reckon"

Esther Pettersson [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Australia
Tuesday, August 31, 2004 at 05:59:05 (UTC)

Written each month by Author, Mentor and Motivational Speaker Mubita C. Nawa. 1-866-MCN-DEFY (626-3339)

Yawn! Calling yourself a motivational speaker? A little rich I reckon. Who might be your audience?



Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Tuesday, August 31, 2004 at 01:44:00 (UTC)

"Written each month by Author, Mentor and Motivational Speaker Mubita C. Nawa. 1-866-MCN-DEFY (626-3339)"


Mubita - my first friction is that Davis did not fight Goliath , maybe that was David's close relative ? Secondly , I had a DEFY refrigerator - do you sell them ?


Doug Waybush [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Maryland, USA, and London, England
Tuesday, August 31, 2004 at 01:19:40 (UTC)

UNLEASHING THE CHAMPION WITHIN

“The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world problems.”
Gandhi
“I am a champion not because I know I am, but because I am, therefore I can do it; it’s inherent”
Mubita C. Nawa

Isaac Newton’s first law of motion states that, ‘Every object in a state of uniform motion tends to remain in that state of motion unless an external force is applied to it.’

In order for you to unleash the vast potential, power and purpose that God has for you, you have to set certain things in motion. You may have to increase some speed, work some numbers, make a move, or maintain your current state of motion.

Prayer is wonderful and powerful, but prayer alone (without the works) will not do it.

When Davis fought Goliath, he had to unleash the stones from his sling thereby knocking his challenger off.

Newton’s second law says ‘the relationship between an objects mass ‘m’, its acceleration ‘a’ and its applied force ‘f’ is F=ma. The champion in you needs proper direction. Where exactly are you going? Sometimes we are headed in the right direction (say East), but on the wrong road. There is a relationship in every decision you make.

Finally, the third law states, ‘for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction’. You cannot lift a 5-pound (2.2kg) object with equal or lesser strength. Some things that God is getting ready to do in your life may require a change in strategy. Don’t be caught up in the “this is the way its always done’ syndrome.

In order for the vision, the champion, and the leader in you to come out, you not only have to do certain things differently, you must be smarter, effective and efficient.

Don’t just do it right (being efficient) but do the right thing (being effective). Like Newton said, there will be opposition, friction, misunderstandings, fallouts and fall-ins. Just do it.

Friction is a part of the process. It’s embedded.

There is a champion in you, and that’s what matters. It does not start tomorrow, it starts today; UNLEASH THE CHAMPION.

Written each month by Author, Mentor and Motivational Speaker Mubita C. Nawa. 1-866-MCN-DEFY (626-3339)


Mubita Nawa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Dallas, Texas, United States
Tuesday, August 31, 2004 at 00:34:16 (UTC)

Mugabe is a huge idiot and major pain in the arse.......but the common folk are very touching...

This concerns the white Zim swimmer Kirsty Coventry who won Gold and Silver and Bronze .....I love it !!!

"REPORTS FROM VARIOUS HOSPITALS AROUND ZIM HAVE SHOWN HOW KIRSTY HAS TOUCHED LIVES IN ZIM - NEW BORN BABIES "

Kirsty Moyo

Athens Phiri

Kirstee Koventree Kavamba

Backstroke Banda

Kirsty Coventry Mapurisa

Individual Medley Mbofana

Goldmedal Zulu

Gold Silver Bronze Ndlovu

Butterfly Masocha

Swimmingpool Nhanga

Freestyle Zuze

Coventry Mabhena

Breaststroke Musendame

Goldwinner Mambo

Threemedals Chinotimba

Doug Waybush [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Maryland, USA, and London, England
Monday, August 30, 2004 at 23:47:44 (UTC)

Chris Swart

Chris - thanks for latest update on Catherine. Keep our fingers crossed for a safe & swift recovery.

Gary

Gary Brassington [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Banbury Oxon, United Kingdom
Monday, August 30, 2004 at 22:22:17 (UTC)

Northerners...

Bill - notice how okies from BH now spell northerners :)...

Take a peek on ebay under NDOLA - six postcards up for grabs.

Also a real NR flag - search under Northern Rhodesia.

Peter Dielissen [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
Monday, August 30, 2004 at 16:28:52 (UTC)

I would like to contact Keith Coventry, Douglas Cantly, Timothy Atwell, and others. If anyone can help?

Thanks

Philip Dacre [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Leeds, West Yorkshire, United Kingdom
Monday, August 30, 2004 at 13:30:42 (UTC)

Dear Craig ( massa of electronics),
Ouch! ;)
Just an old conservative.
Bill

William Knott [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Monday, August 30, 2004 at 13:15:06 (UTC)

Mr Luckin,
he was a teacher in the early 60s at Jeppe High in J`burg then he moved to the Rennie in 63.
he had the beautiful old Buick straight 8 which claimed ran so smoothly you could place a glass of water on the head and hardly notice a ripple. I left the Rennie in 65 and heard no more of him.
Hilton

Hilton Williams [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Brisbane, Australia
Monday, August 30, 2004 at 10:17:52 (UTC)

The bullet was removed and Cath is stable.

Chris Swart [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Kitwe, Zambia
Monday, August 30, 2004 at 09:11:55 (UTC)

Hi Bob

My father-in-law, Mr Luckin, was a teacher, and taught
at many schools, many all of which I do not know.
He passed away just over 2 years ago. He had a
fantastic dry sense of humour, adored music and
reading, and was one of the first 9 people who ran the
first Comrades (Durban/Pietermaritzburg ). He was
a fitness fanatic, and no day was complete unless he
started it with a very long run, a swim and exercise.

Madeleine


Madeleine Luckin (née Bekker) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Johannesburg, South Africa
Monday, August 30, 2004 at 06:18:04 (UTC)

Bill,

Good to hear from you. I thought you had gone the way of the Reform Party. :)

Peter,

I did play those numbers, but I am confused. I guess I'll take the ticket to the lottery stand and have them tell me if I won anything.


Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Monday, August 30, 2004 at 05:27:15 (UTC)

G'Day Northeners,
Just to tell you all that I am alive and still lurking on the GNR daily.
(Gotta get a life.)
Other than that, Ottawa and the eastern Canadain climate is transitioning into Fall soon. The trees are just beginning to turn their leaves to gold, red and brown. Tells me that, although life goes on around the GNR - i.e. world, that the seasons presage another winter and year-end.
The southerners are emerging into spring tho' sandgropers may not notice any changes; the Olympics are over and we did shit as usual and .... so what.
Anyway, all you loverley ex-Northern Rhodesians/ Zambians who post all these messages about trivia - as this is - that it is real neat, eh guys, to read and keep it up.
Especially the doppelganger of one famous Beateous Matwetwe.
Bill

William Knott [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Monday, August 30, 2004 at 00:12:50 (UTC)

Craig - O ye who doth not haveth faith in Microsoft...

Those Super7 numbers were good for two free tickets had you played them....

Peter Dielissen [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
Sunday, August 29, 2004 at 23:13:35 (UTC)

Added Comment to GNR Names Directory and Search Engines

I meant to add that this is just one more reason to keep your Names Directory entry current with your current and working e-mail address. If "X" had not done so, I would not have been able to forward the message from his long lost cousin.

Peter,

I haven't downloaded SP2 for XP yet. I'm waiting for the rest of the world to discover the bugs first. :) Will do so when I get back to Vancouver in mid-September. Glad to hear it blocks pop-ups, but I wonder how long until people figure out ways around the blocking mechanism. Like spam, it's a never-ending arms race.

I hope your SP2 advice is better than the lottery numbers you posted a few days ago. :(


Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Sunday, August 29, 2004 at 21:28:30 (UTC)

GNR Names Directory and Search Engines

I have just received the e-mail message below and have forwarded it to the GNR member in question -- who I refer to as X to maintain privacy. It illustrates a point I made earlier about the importance of the information in the Names Directory being available to search engines.

I am a cousin of X and whilst recently sorting family photographs found some of X and his parents taken in 1946 in Lusaka. We have never met and the last I heard anything of the family was in the 80's when his father, Y, my uncle, died in ... England.

Wondering what had happened to X I looked at the Google Web site, entered his name and there he was - the first item on the first Google page!!

Is it possible for you to give me his email address or if that is not possible, could you pass X my email address, should he want to make a contact with me.

Thanking you for your attention to me enquiry.

The person who contacted me is in the UK and the member is in South Africa. I know this kind of thing happens on and through the GNR on a regular basis. Occasionally someone tells me about it, and I am always happy to hear such stories. That's the main reason this site exists.

Incidentally, when someone contacts me like this wanting to contact a member, I do not give the person contacting me the member's e-mail address. I always forward the message to the member and ask him/her to contact the person directly, should they wish to do so, and I tell the person what I have done and why I cannot give them the member's e-mail address.


Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Sunday, August 29, 2004 at 21:21:16 (UTC)

Hi All

nrzam.org.uk has been updated.

Added Cathrine Nelson's Photograph Collection to the Conributions section. Cathrine spent her early childhood in Mongu and the pictures well reflect this time. Previously on the site in a less obvious position whilst awaiting captions. No more captions yet but I'm still hopeful - Cathrine?

Regards Ian

Ian Singer [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Livingston, West Lothian, Scotland
Sunday, August 29, 2004 at 20:22:38 (UTC)

Northerners...

After I installed service pack 2 I noticed that it blocks all pop-ups too - bonus!!!!!



Peter Dielissen [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
Sunday, August 29, 2004 at 19:36:14 (UTC)

Hi All

nrzam.org.uk has been updated

Added the Northern Rhodesia Colonial Report to the Handbooks section of the site.

The Report provides a snapshot of 1962 in terms of Poulation, Occupations, Wages, Labour Organisations, Public Finance, Taxation, Currency, Banking, Commerce, Production, Social Services, Legislation, Justice, Police, Prisons, Public Utilities, Public Works, Communications, Press, Broadcasting, Films, Government Informations Services, General Items, Cultural and Social Activities. Also sections on Geography, Climate, History and Administration along with a reading list, appendices and photographs.

Kindly provided by Arthur Farncombe.

Regards Ian

Ian Singer [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Livingston, West Lothian, Scotland
Sunday, August 29, 2004 at 18:32:05 (UTC)

Tina, John Milton and other "Bikers"......this one is for you

Mechanic vs Surgeon


A mechanic was removing a cylinder head from the motor of a Harley motorcycle when he spotted a well-known heart surgeon in his shop. The surgeon was waiting for the service manager to take a look at his bike.
The mechanic shouted across the garage, "Hey Doc, can I ask you a question?"
The surgeon, a bit surprised, walked over to the mechanic working on the motorcycle.

The mechanic straightened up, wiped his hands on a rag and asked, "So Doc, look at this engine. I open its 'heart', take valves out, fix'em, put'em back in; and when I finish, it works just like new. So how come I get such a measly salary and you get the really big bucks when you and I are doing basically the same kind of work?
The surgeon paused, smiled, leaned over and whispered to the mechanic, "Try doing it with the engine running."

Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Sunday, August 29, 2004 at 17:04:52 (UTC)

Northerners...

Suggest you do a disk clean up and defrag after downloading service pack 2...

Peter Dielissen [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
Sunday, August 29, 2004 at 13:14:41 (UTC)

Northerners...

Windows XP Service Pack 2

Just installed - took about 90 minutes to download and go through the install. I have a high speed connection.

Everything still works...

The new firewall gave me two messages about wanting to block two sites - I replied yes.

Keeping my fingers crossed....

Has anyone else downloaded service pack 2?

Peter Dielissen [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
Sunday, August 29, 2004 at 13:04:38 (UTC)

Chris Swart

Have just read with shock, your posting about our cousin Catherine. Please keep me informed on how she is recovering. God willing she will have a quick recovery. What does one say in circumstances like this terrrible event - our thoughts are with all the family during this traumatic time.

Gary Brassington



Gary Brassington [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Banbury Oxon, United Kingdom
Saturday, August 28, 2004 at 22:31:40 (UTC)

Hi All

nrzam.org.uk has been updated

Codrington Section - added seven pictures of Codrington School and Hostel (now Kaonga Basic School) which were taken by Andrew Lean when he visited it recently.

Regards

Ian

Ian Singer [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Livingston, West Lothian, Scotland
Saturday, August 28, 2004 at 21:11:32 (UTC)

Zimbabwean Farmers in Zambia

I have a vague recollection that someone may have posted this link before, so my apologies if this is a repeat:

In pictures: Exiled Zimbabwe farmer from the BBC.


Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Saturday, August 28, 2004 at 20:18:57 (UTC)

Doug,

The person who posted the attribution to you for the short story, "Good God, I'm pregnant, I wonder who did it," must have been confused. It was Johnny who posted it on Friday, May 07, 2004 at 16:35:20 (UTC). However, it was on old (but good) joke for me by the time I read Johnny's post, so someone else must have thought that one up somewhere in the mists of time past.

I didn't read enough of the site to come to any conclusions about it. I was just trawling through the GNR's logs to see who was linking to our site.


Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Saturday, August 28, 2004 at 20:16:30 (UTC)

Catherine Ogilvy nee Henrichsen was critcally wounded after being shot in the head by poachers in the Lunga Luswishi while on an anti poaching fund raiser.
I believe she is being flown to South Africa tonight.

Chris Swart [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Kitwe, Zambia
Saturday, August 28, 2004 at 16:46:00 (UTC)

Craig
Thanks for the tip off! I can't even hide in this outback place.

After checking that site I had a look back to my posting of May 7th but I can't really see the tie up. I guess they must mean the story about the painting? The site looks like a bit of an incestuous, high brow journalists (if there is such a thing) site to me.

Cheers - Doug

Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Saturday, August 28, 2004 at 11:00:22 (UTC)

Linda,

Yes, you understand correctly that the IP address displayed in the paragraph above the list of IP addresses in my long message is automatically generated and will change depending on the IP address of the person reading the board. Because of this, someone reading the message can look at their own IP address above the list, and then easily compare it to the IP addresses in the long list. If one of the IP addresses in the list is the same as their IP address, then it means there is a good chance they have a virus on their computer, especially if they have a full-time Internet connection.

The IP address you are receiving virii from (196.30.125.130) is an MWeb IP address in South Africa.


Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Saturday, August 28, 2004 at 07:20:55 (UTC)

Ali:

She is missing in action, I'm afraid. But I did notice a big smile on Elic's face. I guess he has forgotten about the Olympics for now. I watched in disbelief as Marion Jones went out in a fizzle rather than a blaze of glory tonight. That women's 4x100 relay was a fiasco for the Americans. Onward through the fog...

Craig:

I guess it took me a bit longer than everyone else to realise that it was "my" ISP address that you had in your long message to everyone. Did it show up as each member's ISP when they read it too? Quite clever. I was trying to track down the ISP of the email that is sending me the weird virus. It is 196 30 125 130. South Africa? I know what my own is and when I had a look at the long list you posted to see if the culprit was among those numbers, I saw my own in the paragraph above. I wonder if everyone realised theirs pulls in when they read that particular paragraph. Does anyone know what I am talking about or have I had too much to drink tonight?

Cathy Alexander:

Welcome to the GNR. You probably don't remember me but we worked together at GE in Kitwe many moons ago. Alison Brooks worked with us too. She and I are still friends after all these years.

Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Saturday, August 28, 2004 at 06:27:04 (UTC)

.....Craig ........ keep posting your wonderful and obscure websites, I love having a giggle and challenging my intellect ...."moot" esp..........found out where the word Grog came from this morning.........and no not from the Marula tree ??? :0)
Linda did that girl eventually cheer up Elic ??

Ali

Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Saturday, August 28, 2004 at 05:23:52 (UTC)

Doug Grewar,

Speaking of batons, you're famous.


Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Saturday, August 28, 2004 at 03:23:50 (UTC)

What a pity. I just watched the men's 4x400 qualifying relay race and South Africa dropped the baton, so they are out of it.

At least the runner wasn't thrown out for smoking dagga like one of our blokes was. How stupid can you get when you are at that level of competition to throw it all away.

Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Saturday, August 28, 2004 at 03:02:50 (UTC)

Bob Gillies:

I remember you winning those hobo contests, but didn't you just go as yourself... grin?

Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Friday, August 27, 2004 at 20:46:03 (UTC)

sorry Arthur, I have been a bad boy by not posting.
Thanks for the photo I know lynda has been looking for this.
The bad news is my kness are still as nobbly. And if anyone has any information regarding my hat, it would be gratefully appreciated.
Thanks again arty.

Des Kenny (formerly Crouch) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wallasey, England
Friday, August 27, 2004 at 19:43:09 (UTC)

Linda,

It doesn't necessarily mean your computer is infected, but it does mean that someone who has your e-mail address on their computer is infected -- which could be you, but it sounds unlikely since you have done scans. If you look at the originating IP address in the extended headers of the message you'll probably find it's not your IP address, and you might even be able to identify the sender if you recognise the IP address.


Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Friday, August 27, 2004 at 17:08:04 (UTC)

Madeleine, I see you were a Luckin. Any relation to Mr Luckin who was our teacher at Gilbert Rennie in 1963? Just wondering.

I am holding a Hobo Dance in October as a fundraiser for our Rotary Club. Has anyone any good suggestions
on how to have a real good one. I remember some at Kitwe Mine Club in the 70's cause I won twice. Any ideas will be very welcome, thanks.

Bob Gillies [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Springs, Gauteng, South Africa
Friday, August 27, 2004 at 15:37:37 (UTC)

Friends on the GNR:

If you receive an email from "me" from my normal home email address but with 3D right in front of my email address, please do not open it. It is a virus but I am not exactly sure how it is connected to me since it is not my correct email address. I got a reject notice from Anglo American in Kitwe today with this 3D in front of my home email address, so I am not sure how it is working. I have double checked and run my virus scan, and have no virus on my machine, either at home or work. However, I have started getting multiple virii warnings at work from my own work email address with the same situation. A 3D in front of it. I don't use that to correspond with any of you. This morning I got one myself at home with 3D in front of my home email address.

Does anyone have any suggestions here? My hubby is busy with other stuff this week, so I have not had chance to ask him what to do.

Thanks.

Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Friday, August 27, 2004 at 13:22:59 (UTC)


Good morning smilers hope this brings a smile, it did for me. Johnny.

My dad told me that if Adam and Eve had been Chinese, we would be still in Paradise. Why is that I asked?
Because they would have eaten the "£$^&"!! snake instead of the bloody apple! he said.


Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Friday, August 27, 2004 at 07:57:46 (UTC)

Peter D, Dave Gray, Gerard Fagan and various others

I was away in Sinazongwe, delayed my return by two days and have now finally got my September issue together and to the printers (late !!). Now I start replying to all the emails that I have received, so just hang in there - will get to yours shortly - today if things go according to plan.

Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Friday, August 27, 2004 at 07:38:31 (UTC)

Ali,

You have just made a point I make all the time, although it can be summed up with an old saying: "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure." The best cure for spam is not spam filters, challenge/response systems, and all of the other technical wizardry that the technology companies want you to buy from them. The best way not to get spam is not to get on a spammer's list in the first place, and you seem to have accomplished that. How not to get on a spammer's list will be one of the subjects of the article I will write.

Doug,

I'm not sure Madeleine made that point, but I did promise access to the Names Directory again before the end of August. (At least, that's how I am interpreting my promises at this stage.) I have five days to go.


Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Friday, August 27, 2004 at 06:54:18 (UTC)

Craig - I made the point earlier and now Madeleine makes the same . We can't access anyone through the GNR Names Directory because there's no search facility . But if we use an external search engine like Google we can get into the Directory if we choose specific names . So is there a way for Google and GNR to be linked for both easy access and general searching etc ?

Doug Waybush [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Maryland, USA, and London, England
Friday, August 27, 2004 at 01:18:14 (UTC)

Yeth Tina I agree with you...... ;0)
Craig
it is a funny world ,all this about spam etc, after being flooded daily with loads and loads of spam I changed my email address, and hey I have had not one spam???.........(I touched wood, just in case...)...also I am very careful now to clear my cookies, my temp internet files and I also have ad-aware that I run every day as well as my viriiii killer..........you could say I am a little paranoid but when one has children we have to protect them from the flotsam and jetsam of the internet.....

Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Friday, August 27, 2004 at 00:57:26 (UTC)

Oh yes. The boys get pictures of lissome lasses and by all means keep posting them. You should post beautiful things since a thing of beauty is a joy for ever and all that. Now this is a family site so you can't take that last sentence too literally, but, Arthur don't forget a little eye candy for us lasses.

Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Thursday, August 26, 2004 at 23:09:55 (UTC)

NAMES DIRECTORY ISSUES AND SEARCH ENGINES

Warning: Verbosity ahead.

Madeleine,

Good question, and it is one that I have had put to me in private e-mail a few times recently. As Mat explained, the whole process involving search engines is automated and, in some cases, indiscriminate. Search engines index everything on the Web that is publicly accessible. Since most of the GNR is publicly accessible, including most (but not all) of the information in the Names Directory, it is indexed by the search engines. Therefore, if you search for your name with a search engine such as Google, one or more of the results returned will include pages on the GNR, including your Names Directory entry and the message boards on which you have posted messages.

If you search for my name on Google you'll get a whole bunch of results, some of which go back to the last millennium and some of which have nothing to do with this particular Craig Hartnett. Be warned though, that some of them are porn links. Am I a porn star in my (loads of) spare time? In my dreams maybe, but that's where the "indiscriminate" I mentioned above comes in; people (especially owners of porn sites) are always looking for more ways to get more visitors, and so they programme computers to generate bogus search results in an attempt to lure visitors to their sites who are not even looking for what they offer. So if you're looking for nude pics of me, I'm afraid you won't find them at any of the links in the Google results. Apparently they haven't indexed the right pages yet. :) There is nothing I can do about the fact that my name (and a name shared by a few other Craig Hartnetts on this planet) has been used in such a way, so I don't lose any sleep over it.

Anyway, back to reality now, if I still have your attention. Your searching for your name on Google has not started a chain of events of any sort. The data in Google's database just sits there, waiting for someone to come along and search for it. Google (and the other search engines) only regurgitate the data if it matches a term for which someone is searching. A search engine will only regurgitate your e-mail address if it is in its database, and your e-mail address will only get into its database if it is posted somewhere on the Web. This is where the GNR has gone to great lengths to protect you; you will not find your or anyone else's e-mail address anywhere on the GNR, and therefore you will not find your or anyone else's e-mail address on any GNR pages that have been indexed by Google. This, of course, assumes that people do not post e-mail addresses in the text of the messages that they post on the message board, which does happen occasionally.

The question has been raised as to whether or not the GNR Names Directory should be accessible to the public in general and search engines in particular. I am in the process of answering this question at the moment because I am reprogramming the scripts that run the Names Directory. Because the GNR is a contact site (i.e., a Web site where people who have lost contact with one another re-establish contact), it is essential that some information be publicly accessible. If it was not, the friends you would like to contact from years ago would not be able to find you. It's pretty simple really; without the help of the search engines, the GNR would cease to exist because it's very raison d'être is to allow people to search for and find each other, and people would not find the GNR if it wasn't for search engines.

However, some information in the Names Directory does not have to be available to the whole world. We already protect e-mail addresses (so you will not be spammed or receive viruses/virii [thank-you CJ] as a result of joining and participating in the GNR), but we are now going to protect other information such as maiden names. However, this is a double edged sword, because now people who knew you as Madeleine Bekker might not find you, and those that do will be fewer than those that don't because fewer people are willing to do the extra work. Maiden names and the other information we decide to keep from public view will be available to members once they have logged in, but since search engines cannot log into the site they will not index things such as maiden names.

All that said, search engines only index what you enter, so if you don't enter your maiden name (for example) into the Names Directory, then it won't exist In the Names Directory and the search engines won't index it.

On the subject of maiden names, I have made the comment before that one's maiden name doesn't have to be that sensitive. I know that many organisations now use maiden names as a code word, but there is nothing that says you have to use your mother's maiden name as the code word. The reason companies and organisations ask you to use your mother's maiden name is because they are pretty sure you'll remember it when it comes time to identify yourself, to a bank teller for example. I use different code words for different banks, and none of them are my mother's maiden name. This means that someone who knows my mother's maiden name can't go into my bank and clean out my account... not that they'd get very far with the proceeds. (It also means that when Alzheimer's sets in for me I won't be able to get any money out of the bank, but I'll deal with that when the time comes.)

Mat,

Thanks for your much briefer explanation.

CJ,

You might enjoy a word game called Moot, billed as "the world's toughest language game". I love it. If you say "virii" to your average North American they look at you as if you are speaking Greek. If they looked at you as if you were speaking Latin, that would be progress. :)

Chris,

I know that your e-mail address is all over the Internet and has not changed in years, so I am not surprised that you receive vast quantities of spam and viruses. You clearly have far more patience than I with that stuff!

Peter,

Thanks for the numbers.

Computer Security Issues in General

In my loads of free time (when I'm not making blue movies) I am writing an article on security issues which will cover a broad array of topics and will hopefully explain them in language that is understandable to most people (without dumbing it down too much) and make recommendations that are realistic for the average computer user. Threats and solutions covered will include:
  • Spam: Education, prevention system, server-side spam filter
  • Malware (user installed): Education, non-MS browser, secure browser settings
  • Viruses, worms, Trojans: Server- and client-side anti-virus scanners, software firewall, non-MS e-mail client
  • Pop-ups: Non-MS browser
  • Cookies and caches: Automatic and manual clearing
  • Hackers: Hardware firewall
  • Deleted files: Wipe utility
  • Unauthorised local users: Strong password protection, encryption of disks and files, OS version, BIOS
  • IP address broadcast: Impossible without breaking Internet, unreliable at best, anonymous browsing proxies
  • Eavesdropping: Encrypted transaction protocols, encrypted message contents (e-mail, instant messaging, etc.)
  • Identity theft: Strong passwords, encrypted access, selective paranoia
Don't hold your breath. When it's done I will post a link to it.


Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Thursday, August 26, 2004 at 21:51:13 (UTC)

Northerners...

I have been using eTrust ezAntivurus for about five years now. It was free but now is $9.99 a year.

They sent me updates probably three times a week.

Fingers crossed - so far never been hit with a virus.

I also clean out my cookies a few times a week and run Spybot (free) once a week.

Craig and other Canadian Northerners...

Buy a Super7 for tomorrow NOW - $26,000,000....

I have:

02 06 17 24 26 27 33
02 06 17 24 26 41 43
02 06 17 27 33 41 43
02 24 26 27 33 41 43



Peter Dielissen [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
Thursday, August 26, 2004 at 20:50:53 (UTC)

Johnny, Arthur, Linda
Not "The Tassel Tosser"
She would not be seen without her Tassels!
I thought it might have been Glenda Kemp, but I don't see the other half of her act - 'Percy the Python'
Remember the python Johnny?? I sure your eyes were always fixed on that cute serpent!
Arthur, keep the Eye Candy coming, it works a lot better for us males than the Swarfega Hand cleaner!


Bill Hunt [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Widenham, Natal, South Africa
Thursday, August 26, 2004 at 19:49:59 (UTC)

Craig,

I sympathise. We run our computer 24/7 and with DSL are on line all the time. In addition, our e-mail address (baylight@baylighting.com) is synonymous with our domain (www.baylighting.com). We really lay ourselves open to everybody and their uncles! Spam? Millions of them. But here is what we have done to negate the problem as far as possible:

1- Software firewall
2- Router (hardware firewall)
3- Trend Anti Virus software ($14/year)
4- Mailwasher, free, allows you to examine the contents of your mailbox before downloading it. Allows for "Blacklist" and "Friends", Delete, and Bounce. With a bounce, the spam is returned to the originator with a message saying that the addressee has a non deliverable address
5- Postini, $5/month - they hold all suspicious spam messages and sort them into those which contain a virus, and those which just look like spam. You can delete/receive any messages remotely, and check out the messages containing the virus - for senders name, content etc.

It takes a while to process e-mail, but that is cheap at the price. We have not had a sucessful virus attack in many years, but would be able to monitor every attempt if we chose to do so. In fact, when we receive a virus from a sender we know, we are able to inform them that they have been infected.

Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Thursday, August 26, 2004 at 18:35:06 (UTC)

Craig,
I concur. I have, recently, been receiving doses of virii (mongeeses ?) on a daily basis. It really is getting out of hand - just trying to dodge them. I must be on the same circulation list!
Regards
CJ



Charles Cartmill [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stellenridge, Cape Town, South Africa
Thursday, August 26, 2004 at 14:13:52 (UTC)

Hi Mathieu

Thanks so much for your explaination. It of course is right over my head. Strange, just because I entered my name in Google, I started a chain of events which I am now responsible for, it appearing there in the first place. I wonder if the spam idiots take advantage of this .

Have a good weekend

Madeleine

Madeleine Luckin (née Bekker) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Johannesburg, South Africa
Thursday, August 26, 2004 at 11:52:29 (UTC)

Madeline,

I know you addressed to Craig, I'm just sticking my 2-penneth in... :-) I know this is completely off-topic for GNR, but as a self-confessed geek I cant help myself.

Google works by automated processes (called Bots - as in robots) 'trawling' the whole internet, clicking buttons and links etc... As pages are displayed, Google stores them in its database. When someone does a Google search its searches its database for any matching text.

So, on some GNR pages is the word 'Luckin', so Google also has those pages stored and when you do a search it matches on them.

Craig _could_ use a META_DATA directive to stop the Robot from navigating down to the pages in GNR (like the messages thing), but it is not secure in that it relies on the search engine following the 'do not learn' directive.

Ok, geeky stuff over with... Rather than clog the GNR up with off-topic geeky stuff, if anyone wants to discuss this just contact me....

Mat

Mathieu Walker [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Isle of Wight, United Kingdom
Thursday, August 26, 2004 at 10:33:22 (UTC)

Hi Craig

I have just read your message re spam etc. I was wondering if you could advise me on the following.

I was trying to find any information on my surname, and went onto google with Luckin. Much to my surprise there was my name etc, plus the fact that I was part of GNR. plus my maiden name. Maybe I am a little out of my deepth, and this happens automaticly when you register with GNR.

Can you explain.

Tks
Madeleine



Madeleine Luckin (née Bekker) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Johannesburg, South Africa
Thursday, August 26, 2004 at 09:28:36 (UTC)

OK, I'M GETTING A LITTLE TIRED OF THIS

I am getting a daily deluge of e-mail messages laden with viruses. For the last few days I have been getting a fresh batch of about half a dozen every morning shortly after 8:00 am British time. They all seem to originate from a British Telecom customer who has an ADSL (i.e., fast/broadband/high-speed) connection. I suspect a GNR member because all of the messages are sent to greatnorthroad.org e-mail addresses.

You've heard it all before, but please install and keep up-to-date an anti-virus software package. Viruses are not just an inconvenience anymore; they are a threat. These days they steal your passwords and help fraudsters commit more on-line fraud, and one of my clients was a victim just last week. It's something to take very seriously. If your computer is infected, you're not just annoying everyone whose e-mail address is stored on your computer, but you're also probably broadcasting your sensitive passwords to half of the Internet, including the passwords you use for such things as on-line banking and that secret e-mail account you think your spouse doesn't know about. (Bet that got your attention!) If you think that disinfecting your computer is a waste of time and something you can get to next week or not even bother with at all, you're contributing to the propagation of on-line fraud -- plain and simple. If you forward jokes and chain letters with the e-mail addresses of all the recipients exposed for all to see in the "To" and "Cc" headers, you're contributing to the propagation of on-line fraud -- plain and simple. You might think I am exaggerating, but I am not.

If you haven't yet settled on an anti-virus package, you can do a virus scan through a Web page on the Symantec Web site. This will take a while, depending on your connection speed and the number of files on your computer (and how many of them might be infected), but it's well worth it if you don't have anti-virus software installed. You have to remain connected throughout the entire scan, so that could prove to be a problem for people on dial-up connections. However, this scan is only meant to be a short-term solution to a long-term problem.

For a long-term solution I suggest you buy, install and keep up-to-date proper anti-virus software that is scanning your computer all the time, but I don't recommend either of the two big anti-virus vendors -- Symantec (Norton) or McAfee. Instead I suggest eTrust ezAntivurus from Computer Associates -- just the anti-virus software, not the ezArmor suite or ezFirewall. You should also have a software firewall if you don't have a hardware firewall, but I would recommend Zone Labs' ZoneAlarm Pro over the eTrust ezFirewall. (You can even get US$20 off the price of ZoneAlarm Pro from this page.)

Anti-virus and firewall software are both very important, but ten times more important if you have a broadband connection (usually ADSL or cable) that is always on. Do you know what your always-connected computer is doing when you step away from it? Hell, most people don't even know what their computer is doing when they are sitting in front of it, never mind what it's doing while you're sleeping. While I'm on that subject, make sure you turn your computer off when you leave the house or go to bed. I know there's all sorts of "conventional wisdom" out there that says you should leave it on all the time, but it doesn't apply anymore, especially with the way viruses and worms propagate. If you (for some reason) have to leave your computer on all the time but it doesn't need to connect to the Internet when you're out or sleeping, then by all means leave the computer on, but disconnect it from the Internet.

So, if you are a BT customer who is in the habit of flicking on your computer at about eight o' clock every morning, please check your !@#$%^&* computer for viruses! However, I am also getting viruses from people in South Africa, Zambia, Canada, and the USA.

Your IP address is 38.107.191.119. Are you in the list below? The following IP addresses (not all of which are BT IP addresses) have all been hitting me in the last few weeks:

Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Thursday, August 26, 2004 at 09:09:11 (UTC)

Hi Guys, long time no post but I was reading Robert and Keiths comments on the rugby and thought I would chip in. I was at the stadium too and I agree that there were very few of us supporting the Wallabies( we counted maybe 50 out of 55,000). The only time we could be heard was singing the national anthem and when Australia scored because the crowd went silent. An incredible experience as the passion of the home crowd was palpable. The best part (for me) was being able to have a kick on the pitch after the game and then enjoying the concert and braais at the back of the stadium afterwards...it was going off! I gave in about 9.30pm but I believe the crowd was still there after midnight....not a bad effort considering the game finished early evening. The trip gave us (Hazel &I) the opportunity to catch up with Bonny and Paul Frazier in Durban and then Grant & Heather Knowles and Viv Buitendag in Joeys. Hazel also saw Colin and Jan McGregor.
Thanks for the photos Arthur...I spotted Noel daley, Clive Spiers and Sharon Padkin (and of course Pappy). Good to see Gerard Fagan on the board as well
Regards
Chris

Chris Forde [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Thursday, August 26, 2004 at 04:38:37 (UTC)

Ada


Can't imagine you not being busy in life. Good to hear from you. Remember to check in once in a while though.

Happy, active, interesting days to you and Chris.

XXXXXXXX

Tina

Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Thursday, August 26, 2004 at 00:43:26 (UTC)


Arthur:
You mentioned that the last issue of the Rhokana Review was published in December 1962.
This was followed by a similar publication "The Rhokana Copper Miner", does anyone remember this or have any copies..I have only 1 issue, Volume 1 issue no.8 dated April 1963, price 1 penny..
I found this publication a lot more informative and interesting than the Rhokana Reviews both with articles and pictures of personalities at Rhokana and Kitwe, a quite different format.
Hopefully someone out there has saved some copies and will pass them on to you, Arthur. (David Gray or Peter Hills)??.
It was published by Rhokana Corporation and printed in Ndola.

Thanks Arthur, for the laugh at the picture of my sister and me wearing those silly 'flower pot' hats, very fashionable back in the 50's....
Sassy June

June Bohl (née Walker, formerly McCarthy) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Los Angeles County, California, United States
Wednesday, August 25, 2004 at 17:48:56 (UTC)

Arthur

How are you. We will all have to get together soon as withdrawal symptoms are moving in!!!

My matches are DRY!!! We were up your way a couple of weeks ago but left your address at home and your tele number. I could have tested them then. We went all the way to John O'Groats had wonderful weather in Scotland. The Lake District was WET.

Thanks for that photo of the GOOD OLD DAYS.

You should have hung around with me in those days Arthur and you would most definately have gone to Rhodwins and the rapids. Now that was a great swimming place. Dangerous but great.

Belated Birthday wishes Lots of love

Ada


Mike Edwards
Suzman's is just outside Newhaven which is some way from Hastings. I wish they were in Hastings as I live there and it would be so easy to get my biltong!!!!!

Hi Tina, Jacqui, Gary, Tash, Scott, Fi, Graham and everyone else. I don't use the computer much these days - busy, busy!!!

Love to all of you.

Ada



Ada Cantrell (née Wienand) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hastings, East Sussex, England
Wednesday, August 25, 2004 at 16:58:48 (UTC)


Arthur no this was not the elusive tassel tosser and I thought I had seen them all in Kitwe but I do not remember the one you published, worse luck. Johnny.

Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Wednesday, August 25, 2004 at 15:02:43 (UTC)

Just been chatting to Barry about Ndola/Itawa etc....

A song popped into my head. Tiyende Pamodzi. If that brings back a few memories (it's Kaunda's favourite) I found a good recording of it:-

"http://makeni.org.uk/Tiyende Pamodzi.mp3"

Can anyone (this will trace a few) remember singing it at Itawa School?

Mathieu Walker [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Isle of Wight, United Kingdom
Wednesday, August 25, 2004 at 11:37:43 (UTC)

Northerners !

Thank you all for the birthday fishes, wishes and kisses posted here and also those sent by e-mail. I'm sure I could get you all day jobs to keep you doing something constructive. My staff had a bad day when I had to go in work, I just love birthdays, I suppose they're sort of a sunset in a way.

I went over to Peter Hills home to collect a further batch of Rhokana Reviews last Friday, just arrived from David Gray and Skatie Fourie, Cape Town. The magazines are those from 1961 and 1962, up to the final issue which was printed in December 1962.

Weekend was taken up by a marathon scanning session to get all the mags done and this project somewhere near complete. Whilst scanning the mags I noticed some issues were doubled up, two months in one issue, then the fact soon became apparent, I am just ONE issue short of my goal.

If any of you would really like to make my day, birthday or otherwise, the missing issue is MAY 1961 (No.8 from volume 10), if anyone has a copy of this magazine and they would be willing loan it to me for a short period for scanning, please get in touch. This is now my Holy Grail.


Here are a few scans from the latest magazines.

Linda

You like men with a big pipe?

Click for image.

Try this one.

Click for image.

Erm.. - maybe this one would be more desirable - he has a double bowl.


Johnny

Click for image.

Is this the famous Tassel Tosser?


Click for image.

For Des & Denise (Crouch) - you lot are in my bad books by the way.


For Ian Knox

Click for image.

Moira - perhaps you'd better let Knoxie know I posted this here, another member that can't post.


Ada Cantrell - another one that's lost her ability to type, and makes her husband do all the work.

Click for image.

How's your matches babe?


Click for image.

One for Pappy Papier


Click for image.

Another bunch of young sprogs


Click for image.

One for Sassy June Bohl


Mike Wilson,

Click for image.

I also found this one of Sharon Padkin, Marilyn Shooters rival.

I'll be back


Arthur



Arthur Steevens [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stockport, United Kingdom
Wednesday, August 25, 2004 at 00:11:02 (UTC)

Hi all

Talking about the Rugby on Saturday, I had to opportunity to go and watch live at ABSA stadium. Let me tell you the experience was electrifying. The atmosphere amongst the crowds was awesome. Nothing like the live matches I have seen previously.

So many South Africans had the courage to dress up, and show their support. Some wiht painted bodies in green and gold others in costumes. Man, it was brilliant.

Muscian Johnny Clegg gave a concert afterwards in the fields behind the Stadium, that was not too bad.

Hope to hear from some more Rhodies.

Thanks to Erman for contacting me.

Go well
Robbie


Robert Cloke [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Durban, KwaZulu Natal, South Africa
Tuesday, August 24, 2004 at 17:47:55 (UTC)

Gerard
I did reply to your email. Maybe it got lost among the spam.

I heard about these caves from a Anglo-American prospector named John Salmon who used to live in Mufulira. It was over a beer at a braai some 40 years ago and I never got details of the caves exact location. In fact I seem to recall John was rather guarded about it. Maybe he had ideas of harvesting the centuries thick layer of guano and selling it as fertilizer. Apparently these caves went in for several miles.

Heather might be the best person to ask about the caves location.

Cheers - Doug

Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Tuesday, August 24, 2004 at 17:28:53 (UTC)

Doug Grewar sometime ago posted a message which includes something about Caves in North Western Zambia. If Doug reads this I will be grateful for some details on where they are.

Gerard Fagan [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Kitwe, Zambia
Tuesday, August 24, 2004 at 15:08:43 (UTC)

Hi,

I am looking for some pictures of the narrow tar road between Livingstone and Zimba and also between Mazabuka and Kafue that existed until the early 70s.

I believe, if my memory serves me right, the road between Mazabuka and Kafue got widened first, just before 1975 and the Livingstone to Zimba got widened late 70's.

If anyone has the address of a website where I can go to or can post a picture....

Thanks

Bikash Paul [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Ontario, Canada
Tuesday, August 24, 2004 at 15:03:50 (UTC)

BTW. She's not overweight - she's underheight. According to the chart in the Doctor's Office, she should be 7' 6".

Ken Fernie [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Irvine, California, United States
Tuesday, August 24, 2004 at 13:37:53 (UTC)

What about Susie Mutwetwe for the part? When she sat around the house, she sat around the house. The original OOMPH girl, when she sat on the couch, it shouted "OOMPH".

Ken Fernie [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Irvine, California, United States
Tuesday, August 24, 2004 at 13:35:38 (UTC)

Considering that she is no long Minister of Health, I am sure that Inkososana Zuma (spel) would not only be able to do the part justice, as her decisions have proved in the past!!! but she is bound to again enjoy delving into all manner of areas not under her control.
Madeleine

Madeleine Luckin (née Bekker) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Johannesburg, South Africa
Tuesday, August 24, 2004 at 12:10:19 (UTC)

Mma Ramotswe..
I have heard that both Whoopie Goldberg and Oprah Whinfrey are both interested in taking the lead part.
Has anybody got any other suggestions has who would make a good traditionaly built lady detective who would look good in a tiny white van ?

David Swan [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Bute, Scotland, United Kingdom
Tuesday, August 24, 2004 at 08:57:21 (UTC)

Arthur.
Belated birthday wishes, Hope you had a great day.
Thanks for all the hard work you put into the GNR
Lynda

Lynda Fielder (née Clark) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Rye Sussex, England
Tuesday, August 24, 2004 at 07:02:35 (UTC)

Ali, Add : Can't eat ostrich - a virus here appeared recently and up to 30,000 were going to be destroyed around the country!

Bob Gillies [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Springs, Gauteng, South Africa
Tuesday, August 24, 2004 at 06:02:58 (UTC)

Linda

Very cool. Nice bit of info.

Ken

Eggsistential surely



Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Tuesday, August 24, 2004 at 05:13:12 (UTC)

An interesting snippet for Mma Ramotswe and the No. 1 Ladies Detective Agency fans. I have just read an article in The Economist about the amazing success of Alexander McCall Smith's series. There is yet another just published, "In The Company of Cheerful Ladies." At least two more are planned. Nearly 5 million copies of the first five books have been bought in English. Editions in Bulgarian, Icelandic, Sloven and some 30 other languages sell well too. Who would have thunk..

A bonus is that Mirimax film company and director Anthony Minghella of "The English Patient" have sealed the deal to make at least three Mma Ramotswe television films. Obviously Halle Barry will not be auditioning for the lead part!

Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Tuesday, August 24, 2004 at 03:59:38 (UTC)

Arthur!

Best wishes for a Happy Birthday mate. Hope U have a great day. Thanks for all your unrelented hard work on the GNR.

Gary & Kids.

Gary Brassington [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Banbury Oxon, United Kingdom
Monday, August 23, 2004 at 21:44:55 (UTC)

Arthur

Happy Birthday dearest friend! Hope you have had a very special day. Much love xx

Jacqui Milward (née Lackenby) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
London, England
Monday, August 23, 2004 at 17:45:35 (UTC)

I once took a course in existentialist Philosophy. For my final paper, I went every day for three months to a Fast-food Restaurant and ordered a Chicken sandwich, and an Egg sandwich, to see which would come first.

Ken Fernie [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Irvine, California, United States
Monday, August 23, 2004 at 17:01:05 (UTC)

What comes first the chicken or the egg???can Zambian chooks beat this??
a little snippet from the "ABC email news"
A free-range egg producer on the mid-north coast of New South Wales is scratching her head over the appearance of a giant egg with a second egg inside it.

Sue Paff says finding the 10 centimetre long egg was a surprise but the real shock was cracking it to find a second fully formed egg inside.

"I rolled it around because I thought, oh, it's probably all egg white, you know, and I thought, 'there's something in there'," she said.

"Then we peeled this shell back and there was another whole, perfect egg inside and then we cracked that and it was perfect inside as well.

"So it was quite a shock actually ... I don't know how common it is but we've had two."

University of Sydney poultry science chairman Professor Tom Scott says he has only seen such an egg once in his 30-year career.

He says when a normal egg is in the shell gland, a disturbance can cause it to go back up into the oviduct and start egg production all over again, resulting in an egg inside an egg

Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Monday, August 23, 2004 at 15:05:29 (UTC)

Hi Arthur,
Happy birthday. I Hope your family spoil you and buy you all the flies/lures/fishing katunda/etc. you've had your eye on.
Regards

Charles Cartmill [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stellenridge, Cape Town, South Africa
Monday, August 23, 2004 at 11:39:20 (UTC)

Hello Arthur,

whatever everyone else wishes you we wish you the same and much much more. Have a good.........one
mmm-xxx All the Beeeesssst from Anja and Bryan

Bryan Baker [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Western Australia, Australia
Monday, August 23, 2004 at 11:18:35 (UTC)

Hi Artie

A very happy birthday to you! I hope you have a good one - you deserve it. By the way, long time no talk. Hope to see you online soon.

xxx

Fiona Gayther (née Ferguson) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tytherington, Gloucestershire, United Kingdom
Monday, August 23, 2004 at 10:45:27 (UTC)


Artie.

Many happy returns old mart Johnny.

Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Monday, August 23, 2004 at 09:51:24 (UTC)

Hi Arthur,
Many More. Look after yourself.

Mike

Mike Wilson [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Dawlish, Devon, United Kingdom
Monday, August 23, 2004 at 06:12:18 (UTC)

Bugger – missed the rugger.

I have just seen the video of Saturday’s game some 40 hours after the event. I must have been busy watching Australia’s men beating South Africa at hockey in the Olympics at the time. Maybe I was even watching Nick Baxter rowing for Australia on Saturday evening. Nick is the brother of Wallabies front rower Al Baxter.

Georgie Gregan did have a bit to say but as captain that’s his prerogative as long as he doesn’t argue with the ref. Did you notice that a 750ml bottle of liquid was thrown at him when he came back on to the field after half-time? That’s now been sent away for diagnosis and finger printing. Could it have been the guy who tackled the ref a couple of years ago?

3 tries to 2 in favour of the Wallabies but a good win to the Boks anyway.

Did anyone notice which side had more blacks and coloureds? Interesting but the Wallabies may have had more.

What about the crowd? At the Perth game there must have been 8,000 South Africans out of 40,000. In Durban I didn’t see one Wallaby fan in the 52,000 crowd. The home crowd made such a noise that the Wallabies hooker couldn’t hear the line out calls and gave away 3 free kicks for not throwing the ball in quickly enough.

And what about Percy Montgomery? He departed from the field before getting his marching orders from the ref for that dangerous tackle. We used to see batsmen walk (and still do in the case of Adam Gilchrist) but that must be the first time it’s happened in rugby.

And talking of commentators, as Chris Tamm did in a previous post, we have pretty good ones here: expert Gordon Bray and past players Dan Crowley and Tim Horan. Commenting on the mighty Os du Rand’s return to international rugby after a couple of year’s sabbatical, Tim Horan said he had been out in the wilderness snacking on elephants. I don't think he was wrong!


Keith Binns [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Monday, August 23, 2004 at 04:27:47 (UTC)

Dear Arthur,
Happy-Happy Birthday - may you celebrate many more! We'll raise a glass or two of VB and as the Boro's is sold in circles here, so we'll chuck a circle on the Barbie too.
Thank you for all the hard work you've put in over the years - the GNR just wouldn't be as colourful without your consistantly magnificent contributions.
Best wishes from us both,
Sue and Paudie.

Sue Coughlan (née Forde) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, WA, Australia
Monday, August 23, 2004 at 02:03:55 (UTC)

Nope, I'm afraid it's the one that got away. How about these symbol fishes. (Could work). If not, that's it for this round.

<(((< <[[[< <{{{<

Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Sunday, August 22, 2004 at 21:10:07 (UTC)

One last try. All these dangerous additives to our waters* can leave us with some very mutant fishies. 


                  

        HAPPY BIRF      !!!!!

     A                 DAY!!!!! 

        TOARTHUR     !!!!!

    




 HAPPY BIRF   !!!!!

     A                 DAY!!!!! 

        TOARTHUR     !!!!!


* (Like scotch, for instance, shhhhhhh!)

Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Sunday, August 22, 2004 at 21:04:45 (UTC)

HAPPY BIRTHDAY ARTIE!!

A birthday ditty, just for you.

We all know that Artie's a hunk
Though 56, he's still quite full of spunk
When he stands close to me
I get weak at the knee
And I don't even need to sniff GUNK!

(I know... report to the Headmaster for being naughty! Since it's your birthday, I'll let you use your cane instead of mine...grin)

LUV YA!

Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Sunday, August 22, 2004 at 20:29:53 (UTC)

A piece of Rhodesiana on e-bay - $1.6 million...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6317422621&category=2312&ssPageName=ADME:B:EF:US:1


Peter Dielissen [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
Sunday, August 22, 2004 at 19:02:40 (UTC)

Tina , Craig might play magician and fix your fish for Artie..........

Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Sunday, August 22, 2004 at 16:21:36 (UTC)

(It's supposed to be a fish shape and at least that is recognisable but Ican barely remember the letters html so this is the result).

Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Sunday, August 22, 2004 at 16:17:18 (UTC)


  

                                   Y

        HAPPY BIRF    A 

    A                     D

        TOARTHUR     !

                                   !





Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Sunday, August 22, 2004 at 16:03:28 (UTC)

Happy Birthday KING ARTIE
hope you have a wonderful day and many many more
Ali

Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Sunday, August 22, 2004 at 15:38:01 (UTC)

Arthur
Happy Birthday and many happy bites! Thanks once again for all the hard work you do for this site, that brings pleasure to so many of us.

Cheers - Doug

Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Sunday, August 22, 2004 at 14:56:10 (UTC)

HEY ARTHUR! ..........................




HAPPY BIRTHDAY YOU OLD FOX!

Miss you heaps, wish you always the very best, and love you to bits!
Mo xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxo

P.S. ...... it's half past midnight on the 23rd August, so I AM allowed to wish you birthday happies NOW!



Moira Steevens [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Brisbane, Australia
Sunday, August 22, 2004 at 14:38:09 (UTC)

2005 reunion...

Has anyone looked at fares to Lusaka yet?

So far BA seems to have best fares both out of Canada and Heathrow.

Peter Dielissen [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
Sunday, August 22, 2004 at 12:58:14 (UTC)

Score 23 - !9
Good result Jake, but don't underestimate the abilities of the 2007 World Cup Yankee 15! ( presently in frantic training)
They might be a force to be reckoned with!!

Bill Hunt [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Widenham, Natal, South Africa
Sunday, August 22, 2004 at 11:26:06 (UTC)

Other stuff lifted from the "Circles of Influence" link on that pole site about the originality and thinking of Bob and this fascinating little gaggle of South Africans. http://www.blbweb.co.za/bushbaby/circle.htm#2

"If you want to make a difference in LIFE then be prepared to do things a little differently. Step away from your comfort zone and simply just DO IT. That way you will encounter the "kairos moments".

Definition of Kairos Moments - The Greek word kairos means "a pivotal moment in time, a life changing moment or event". An epiphany I suppose you could say.

They did the: "Day in the Life of South Africa" project in 1982 out of enthusiastic originality of spirit and the will to do good, and it took off out of all proportion. This project which can give life changing ideas and quality experience to the life of underprivileged, no hope kids, is going to go the same way.

May we all step out of our comfort zones with open hearts and let the kairos moments find us.

Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Sunday, August 22, 2004 at 04:09:53 (UTC)

Up the pole at the waterhole is fascinating. (The link to up the pole in S.A. below).

You get great information by clicking on the menu at the left of the page. Engineering the structure, which must be carried in and out of the location, solar panels for energy for laptop, and light and a little fridge, potty arrangements. Not any emphasis on screening him from the elements though I suppose he could get some shade by positioning the camera umbrella.

Two weeks up a pole for charity in a game park with lions, elephants, leopard, rhino moving by to drink just a few feet below you. Wow. (Wondering how high a hungry leopard can spring). You wouldn't want to walk in your sleep but despite the discomforts it sounds very attractive.

Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Sunday, August 22, 2004 at 03:37:39 (UTC)

Gill Ward

So you do read the Message Board! you are looking for a quite large oval brass plate with a makers name and number on it, if you don't have it the "Old Man" must have given it away. Scotland was great, came away with a tan, escaped as the rain arrived

Chris Cantrell [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hastings, East Sussex, United Kingdom
Saturday, August 21, 2004 at 19:49:26 (UTC)

OK Douglas,

The Springbucks (sic) are back, after a very long drought when they became somewhat of an embarrassment. How did you feel about the crowd's response to Rathbone each time he touched the ball? It seems to me the Horstruckingfailures talked themselves out of this game. They panicked way too much, and the Zamboon point 5 mouthed his way through the game, but instead of whipping up his own boys, he tried to whip up the match officials. And what was their hooker up to? Did the Aussies throw the game?? Nah, only joking. The Bokke played very well, again, and the score differential could have been far wider if it wasn't for poofter Percy off being off target, again. He also well deserved his 10 minutes in the cooler.

Now if the slopies can only find some descent game callers, as opposed to monotonous name callers. Over here, we only ever get to hear Bladen and his sidekick. Do they not have any better commentators? My favorite commentating team is Nisbo with John Drake, followed by Messrs. Clark, Martin, and Kearns. They call their games well using easy to understand descriptions of some of the technical aspects of the game. Mexted? Ought to be keel hauled south of Invercargill in mid winter.

Ok you lot, so who will win the Currie Cup this year? Now that Sowf Efrika is back, we get to see both the Currie Cup and NPC contests this year, starting next weekend. Yippie!!

Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Saturday, August 21, 2004 at 18:02:31 (UTC)

Doug,
you beat me to it! I had to send an SMS to Otto who is languishing on Paradise Island in the Mozambique Channel - in the Bazaruto Archipelago - I am here running a horse show! But - at least I have the telly with the Olympics and the rugby!

Jilly

Jill Aplin [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
South Africa
Saturday, August 21, 2004 at 15:18:10 (UTC)

We won! And there was a placard in the stands saying "Zambia loves the Boks!" I love Jake White! - What do you think - Jake and Jill? He! He! WOW! Lekker, Jong!

Jilly

Jill Aplin [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
South Africa
Saturday, August 21, 2004 at 15:10:41 (UTC)

Boks 23 Wallabies 19
The Bokke are back! We are the champions!

Doubting Chris take 100 lines, write 'Viva Bokke Viva!'

Did anyone else see the lady in the crowd waving a placard which said, Zambia loves the Bokke.

Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Saturday, August 21, 2004 at 15:02:01 (UTC)

what a game............an angels game.......wonderful result well deserved..........

Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Saturday, August 21, 2004 at 14:56:55 (UTC)

South Africa Australia
Tries 2 3
Pens 3 0
Cons 2 2
DGs 0 0
Score 23 19
South Africa
PENK 40 Min (Montgomery)
TRY 44 Min (Matfield)
CONV 45 Min (Montgomery)
TRY 52 Min (Van Niekerk)
CONV 53 Min (Montgomery)
PENK 56 Min (Montgomery)
PENK 63 Min (Montgomery)
YELC 70 Min (Montgomery)
YELC 79 Min (Paulse)
Australia
TRY 33 Min (Tuqiri)
CONV 34 Min (Giteau)
TRY 71 Min (Mortlock)
CONV 72 Min (Giteau)
TRY 79 Min (Smith)

Robert Worrill [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Christchurch, New Zealand
Saturday, August 21, 2004 at 14:56:02 (UTC)

Chris Cantrell
Glad to hear you re back home - hope you enjoyed your 41st wedding anniversary. What am I supposed to know about the old steam engine on the way to Mulungushi? I was wondering if Mulungushi had ever been mentioned but haven't got the time to check all the archived messages (not retired yet!). I'm sure lots of us remember swimming down the canal.




Gill Ward (née Cantrell) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Durban, South Africa
Saturday, August 21, 2004 at 14:50:17 (UTC)

Chris Cantrell
Glad to hear you re back home - hope you enjoyed your 41st wedding anniversary. What am I supposed to know about the old steam engine on the way to Mulungushi? I was wondering if Mulungushi had ever been mentioned but haven't got the time to check all the archived messages (not retired yet!). I'm sure lots of us remember swimming down the canal.
Gill Ward



Gill Ward (née Cantrell) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Durban, South Africa
Saturday, August 21, 2004 at 14:49:23 (UTC)

come on the Bokkies..............yahoooooooo

Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Saturday, August 21, 2004 at 14:38:45 (UTC)

Charles Cartmill

I have been away in Scotland for three weeks so am only now catching up with the board. I remember the steam traction engine on the Mulungushi Road, the brass identification plate was liberated in the early fifties, if you contact my Sister she will be able to give you the details on it!!!

Chris Cantrell [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hastings, East Sussex, United Kingdom
Saturday, August 21, 2004 at 11:08:11 (UTC)

For the serious reader: -

www.beewatch.co.za

Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Saturday, August 21, 2004 at 10:59:12 (UTC)

Somebody is up the pole in South Africa. It isn't me and I am not responsible for it either. Check it out at: -

www.upthepole.co.za

Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Saturday, August 21, 2004 at 10:47:21 (UTC)

Chris
In 87 minutes time the Boks will play the Wallabies in Durban in the final match of the tri-nations. The winner of this match will be the Champions!



Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Saturday, August 21, 2004 at 10:40:23 (UTC)

Doug Gorton:

You've been playing with your... MGB too long. Your hands look a bit wrinkled from here. The last time I drove an MGB, I drove it through a plate glass window in Chingola and that has left me with an aversion to the name. I see that you are 15 days younger than me. A good job as I don't like to pick on boys younger than me... usually...grin. With the Texas heat being unbearable at the moment, I wouldn't mind being in Vermont.

Keep those hands clean and for goodness sake behave!

Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Saturday, August 21, 2004 at 05:52:44 (UTC)

Ali

" I haven't touched a drop of chocolate". Impressive!True chocolate abstinence is even staying out of the Creme de Cacao. You could go to chocoholics.com and do the crossword which is made up of chocolate words. It's one way to indulge in chocolate and actually burn a couple of calories scratching your head over the answers. Just don't eat all the answers unless your planning on following it with a ten mile marathon.

Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Saturday, August 21, 2004 at 05:20:57 (UTC)

signs of the times.........

Can't eat beef . mad cow.
Can't eat chicken . bird flu
Can't eat eggs ... Salmonella
Can't eat pork ... fears that bird flu will infect piggies
Can't eat fish .. heavy metals in the waters has poisoned their meat
Can't eat fruits and veggies ... insecticides and herbicides


hmmmmmmmm



I believe that leaves Chocolate!!!!!!!!

now that is what I like to hear..(I am a Chocoholic of the first water!!).....though I am proud to say I have not touched a drop of chocolate for 3 weeks.......

Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Saturday, August 21, 2004 at 04:48:24 (UTC)

Dave, Ross was quite into RC planes a few years ago in Leicester. He got his bronze, silver and gold certificates quite quick. He built a Pitts Special and painted it the same as a full size one. I took a photo of the model with the real plane. He built a lot for other people and then seemed to lose interest and move onto other things. I hope to see you when I come over in december. My daughter (21) was with Ross last weekend, he had not seen her since she was 9. Ross now has a Honda Gold Wing 1500. I am keen to give it a run when I am over, see you.
For those not happy with Standard Bank try the one in Springs, absolutely #@%& useless. It is a fact Std Bank get their income from petty and any other misc. charges they can pin on their cuzzies, me for one, with them since 1967, and no special service for such long support, but we catch them every time. Their branch managers now have no powers at all, they are just glorified bank clerks, and cannot make decisions.

Bob Gillies [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Springs, Gauteng, South Africa
Friday, August 20, 2004 at 16:33:56 (UTC)



Ooooopsssss! Here goes my bass-baritone

Bryan



Bryan Baker [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Western Australia, Australia
Friday, August 20, 2004 at 15:15:53 (UTC)

Doug,

Here's to woman, the warm clinging vine
Blooms once a month, carries once in nine
She's the only creature this side of hell
To squeeze juice out of nuts
Without breaking the shell

Bryan

Bryan Baker [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Western Australia, Australia
Friday, August 20, 2004 at 15:12:47 (UTC)

Linda,
I was thinking of you last night when I was cleaning my hands after fiddling with my...............





























old MGB !!!! Unfortunately I was using "Goop" to get the grease off my hands not "SWARFEGA"

Doug Gorton [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Rochester, Vermont, United States
Friday, August 20, 2004 at 13:48:37 (UTC)

Ali

NOBODY writes a goat poem like you do! I'll send your -um - "Chevre d'oeuvre" along with a pic of Mum and Mbuzi (Boozy's real love was Mum even over and above hibiscus) to Arthur for posting at some quiet and unexpected point.



Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Thursday, August 19, 2004 at 23:06:05 (UTC)

Esther

It was the same for me just writing it, but always between laughter and tears because they really did LIVE life.

Doug

Wouldn't you think a person would be just fine as long as they simply had a little in-sight?

Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Thursday, August 19, 2004 at 22:41:42 (UTC)

Tina,

Your entry put tears in my eyes - Thank You !!

Esther Pettersson [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Australia
Thursday, August 19, 2004 at 22:25:45 (UTC)

David Russell,
A very good friend of mine in Kitwe was Barry Hicks. He was a very active swimmer in the backstroke in the early 60's. I would love to know where he is now. Any ideas?
Mike

Mike Edwards [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Billesdon, Leicestershire, United Kingdom
Thursday, August 19, 2004 at 20:41:38 (UTC)

Colin/Chris,
A couple of years ago I opened an account at Kitwe Standard Chartered Bank having become totally fed up with Barclays. A year or so ago we received a letter saying that we had to go in with phone bills, photographs, inside leg measurement, name of grandmother's dog and so on. Managed to convince them that we weren't drug barons and that was that. Next time we went back to Kitwe, we discovered that the minimum balance had been raised from something around K500,000 to K1 million and as a result of this, no interest had been paid but the balance had been reduced by charges. Ho hum. Paid in some cash and took our balance up to K1.2 million (I'm a millionaire!). Now we should get some interest. Within a year we were back in Kitwe only to discover that we've still not been paid any interest. I'm now ready to do battle. After phone calls, personal visits to personal 'bankers' (I use that term loosely or maybe my spelling's out), who were never available, finally, after weeks of frustration, I get to speak to someone. Who informs me very politely that unless there is activity on the account (a savings account that is), after three months, it is considered dormant and will accrue no interest. Not once did they notify us of any of the changes to the minimum balance etc. It took many more weeks to actually retrieve the cash and, much to their amazement, close the account and move on elsewhere. Oh, and for that priviledge, I was charged as well!
So Colin, I'm afraid that someone in Standard Bank will have seen to it that your £50 was put to good use elsewhere looooooooooong ago!
Maybe the drug barons have the right idea..... No no no. Before I'm shot down in flames, I promise I don't really mean that. Mind you, around Kitwe, if you see someone driving a really ace car, chances are you know exactly what business he's in!

Lizd [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
United Kingdom
Thursday, August 19, 2004 at 20:36:07 (UTC)

A good source for Biltong, Boerewors and Koeksisters in the UK is Suzmans in Hastings. They also have peppermint crisps and chocolate logs. Yummm.

Mike

Mike Edwards [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Billesdon, Leicestershire, United Kingdom
Thursday, August 19, 2004 at 20:32:25 (UTC)

To Bob Gillies and anyone intrested
Bob you mentioned your intrest in Radio Control model aircraft , I ran my own Model shop here in Spondon nr Derby for 20 odd years closed it down in Jan 2001 and rent the property, Have a look at our local club's website www.drcf.fsnet.co.uk we are very lucky to have an area like this, it is an old ww2 airfield just outside Ashbourne in the Derbyshire peaks
Dave

David Heaton [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Derby, United Kingdom
Thursday, August 19, 2004 at 20:03:24 (UTC)

Donald S
Infrequently or in frequently? That is a good one!

When is it indecent? When it is in deep, in tight, and in right, then it is in decent.

Cheers - Doug

Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Thursday, August 19, 2004 at 19:55:40 (UTC)


Thanks to Johnny for this wonderful little joke....Ali


Goldfish

Little Nancy was in the garden filling in a hole when her neighbour peered
over the fence. Interested in what the cheeky-faced youngster was up to, he
politely asked,

"What are you doing there, Nancy?"

"My goldfish died," replied Nancy tearfully without looking up, "and I've
just buried him."

The neighbour was very concerned. "That's an awfully big hole for a
goldfish, isn't it?"

Nancy patted down the last heap of dirt then replied, "That's because he's
inside your cat."



__




Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Thursday, August 19, 2004 at 18:39:26 (UTC)

Ere folks, dont forget Wilbur Smith is from Kabwe. Be good if he joined The GNR.......

Mathieu Walker [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Isle of Wight, United Kingdom
Thursday, August 19, 2004 at 15:43:55 (UTC)

Tina
You forgot Mbuzi even had a poem written about her............oh and she loved Hibiscus shoots.........


Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Thursday, August 19, 2004 at 10:24:53 (UTC)

Norman

Thats quite a coincidence. I also flew out from Heathhrow on 21 July 1957. Our BOAC plane was an Argonaut however - departed at 9am on 21 July and arrived Ndola 1400hours next day. It also stopped at Rome on the way.

Martin,
Salisbury, U.K.

Martin Lacey [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
United Kingdom
Thursday, August 19, 2004 at 09:49:53 (UTC)

HI All

have not been in contact for awhile. been overloaded (as most people) with work.

have not heard from anyone that may have remembered me from the good old days in Livingstone. I was only a young child at the time but have many happy memories and can't wait to return to Livingstone on a family holiday.

My late Father - Fred Dillon Cloke work on the Rhodesian Railways in the mid 50's to 1960. where a very unforunate family tradgedy took place.

Please anyone who remembers my family, please contact me.
My late mother was Peggy Cloke, I have a sister Rosemary Cloke and brother David Cloke.

Have a splended week and weekend.
Regards
Robert Cloke


Robert Cloke [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Durban, KwaZulu Natal, South Africa
Thursday, August 19, 2004 at 09:43:19 (UTC)

Northerners...

You probably know about how I scam Air Canada to upgrade me into business class. It must be my Dad's genes.

I think it was 1958 when Greatermans opened it's doors in Salisbury. As part of the opening celebrations there was a colouring contest for kids. The first prize was that the winning kid could take all the toys he could carry by himself in one trip out of the store.

Well, lo and behold doesn't my youngest brother - just turned six - win the first prize. I guess they were probably thinking a six year old was pretty limited in his "carrying out by himself" capabilities.

My dad, who should have been a politician, went to see the manager of Greatermans and asked him how much he thought his son could carry out. The manager replied at the most 15 pounds worth. My dad then asked him if - to avoid WW3 in our home - each of us three kids could pick up something worth around 5 pounds. The manager replied rules were rules and that could not be done.

This was all to happen on a Saturday morning and the Friday afternoon before my Dad and younger brother went on a scouting mission in the toy department. I remember my dad telling my mom that he had this pommy rules bound manager by the bloody balls. BTW my dad and the word bloody were synonymous, hee, hee.

Saturday morning arrives and we all troop off to the store for the great event. After some ceremony my brother was let loose. He promptly went to the electric train section and loaded the five boxes of electric "Marklin" train sets imported from Germany at 30 pounds a piece into his arms and walked out.

Well the "bloody pommy manager" had a heart attack and told my dad he could only keep one. My dad reminded him rules were rules and his son made one trip carrying out all the toys he could carry.

Serious negotiations were begun and in the end all three of us were allowed to select 15 pounds worth of toys each, hee, hee, hee!!!

Yes, life was good those days...

Peter Dielissen [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
Thursday, August 19, 2004 at 08:35:48 (UTC)

I have told Esther this story and she thought the GNR would like it too.

Sometimes in Zambia I would house sit for people on "long leave". On this occasion I was flat sitting, for two months. My neighbours, two doors down, when in town, were the Spenglers, and their enjoyment of life and gentle hearts made the neighbourhood. There was tall, thin Dave, in his glasses. He loved to chuckle, he loved Muriel and her daughter Tamara and he loved the bush and tinkering with things, fixing problems. Tamara was a beautiful, shy, long legged six year old. Muriel? If you had Muriel, you had a party! We laughed til our sides literally ached and got up to all sorts of mischief.

For instance, one day we were out in the bush visiting a village. Don't ask me why. We always did something when we got together. We'd been at their amethyst dig some time before and I have a chunk of raw amethyst from that day sitting on my mouse pad as I write. The Spenglers were rather like chunks of raw amethyst themselves, multi-faceted, originals, deeply satisfying. So maybe this was a boring Saturday and the answer du jour was to visit a village?

The village had the usual assortment of chickens and goats. This one delicate little goat was just like a duiker, up on its goaty tippy toes. I had to have it. It was for sale and back it came in the truck to suburban Lusaka.

Adam, was the sweet, suited guy who did a good and quite serious job of managing the flats. He was a lovely person, charming, one who liked everything in order and his ducks in a row.

We decided his "ducks" needed a goat. We added one in a prominent spot.

Shortly thereafter, Adam returned tranquilly to his neatly ordered world. Driving up in his truck he surveyed the clean walks, the bright flowers, the tidy hedge, the ornamental front lawn with a little tethered goat, eating her way around it in a circle.

His truck door flew open and we saw his horrified face in between our muffled helpless hiccups of mirth. He bounded across to our sweet odiferous little lawn mower and grabbed her tether up out of the ground. He started off in one direction, stopped, turned around and headed purposefully round the building for the garden entrances to the flats which everyone used. We knew where he was headed and made a scramble for the patio. By the time he arrived we were sitting there innocently drinking mosi's. We handed him one.

Well, we knew our little four legged friend with the straight-up tail wouldn't be staying at the flats without ending up on Adam's menu, but I had her future planned. I took her up to my mother, a direct and enthusiastic descendent of St. Francis of Assisi. Mbuzi became the world's most spoiled goat and quite a celebrity as the urban goat of Kabulonga Lodge. In fact she's been on the GNR. We've had a picture on here of my mother hugging her on our own front lawn.

So that's my story.......Yes, Dave, Muriel and Tamara. I knew you and loved you dearly and I carry you always in my heart.

Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Thursday, August 19, 2004 at 06:29:35 (UTC)

Artie:

Since you asked.... One of the things you did miss out on was being my boyfriend. I was more fun than a barrel of monkeys, guaranteed... grin

Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Thursday, August 19, 2004 at 04:08:53 (UTC)

Apart from the young Zambian swimmer at the Olympics there are other links to Zambian swimming. A young Zimbabwean girl Kristy Coventry has won silver in 100m backstroke and bronze in Individual Medley. The connection to Zambia? Her father is Llewelyn Coventry who was an active competitor with me in swimming galas around the Copperbelt in the early to late 1960s! He apparently live in South Africa now but his daughter has been able to swim for Zimbabwe, presumably born there?

So if we can find 13 more rugby players and a few more swimmers Zambia could again rise to sporting fame!

David

David Russell [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Western Australia, Australia
Thursday, August 19, 2004 at 03:25:12 (UTC)

Wee Colin writes:
CHRIS Did not know you worked for Std Bank. I left approx £50 ( months wages) in my account at the Std Bank in Choma in 1964-65 before returning South with the full intention of returning in the immediate future, however to date I have not been back! As I have neither the passbook or any other means of identifcation from that time, what do you reckon are the chances, if I went back tomorrow and asked for my money ? How much would it be worth today? I have often pondered this question; what could I buy with it today in Northern Rhodesia? No way a farm,(had enough), just a wee roondavel in the chateen would do me nicely! Any chance?

Well now, 50 quid Zambian in 1965 money became K100 upon decimalisation in 1968, at which time it would have been the equivalent of plus/minus GBP50. Invested at 8% for a 40 year term, and without any additional contributions, the account would now have a balance of approx K2,500. Not bad you say, but there is a snag - the value of the Kwacha has gone down the toilet. In fact I do not even know what the Sterling/Kwacha rate is anymore, but is is probably around 8,000. Therefore, your savings account with K2,500 in it would be worth today approximately GBP 0.31. I don't think you can even buy a stick of chewing gum for that today - anywhere! You can have some more fun with this if you apply Net Present Value Tables. Perhaps if you were to show up at the Choma Office today to claim your wealth, you might even be faced with a bill!

But on a more serious note, there are some very strict rules governing the management of UNCLAIMED BALANCES. The Standard Bank Choma Branch would have maintained the account balance in their books for 5 years. The funds would then be transferred to the head office in Lusaka where they would be managed for a further 8 years (or was it 10, I forget?). Thereafter the funds would have been transferred to the Bank of Zambia where they would be managed indefinitely. Theoretically, you could present yourself to the Manager of Unclaimed Balances at the BoZ, identify yourself, and claim your cash. Unfortunately, it is likely that some smart/greedy/born thief kind of a chap or chapess, would have cooked the books and made off with your money to the shebeen.

Try it Colin - it will cost you an airmail stamp.

Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Thursday, August 19, 2004 at 02:50:31 (UTC)

NORMAN Re your stopovers by BOAC out of London by Viscount in 1961, you must have called at Nice to refuel otherwise you would never have made it to Benghazi and did you also not have to refuel at Wadi? (The Viscount was positive luxury compared to the Dakotas used by the RRAF as troop carriers at that time) CHRIS Did not know you worked for Std Bank. I left approx £50 ( months wages) in my account at the Std Bank in Choma in 1964-65 before returning South with the full intention of returning in the immediate future, however to date I have not been back! As I have neither the passbook or any other means of identifcation from that time, what do you reckon are the chances, if I went back tomorrow and asked for my money ? How much would it be worth today? I have often pondered this question; what could I buy with it today in Northern Rhodesia? No way a farm,(had enough), just a wee roondavel in the chateen would do me nicely! Any chance?

Colin Munro [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Oban, Scotland, United Kingdom
Thursday, August 19, 2004 at 01:21:06 (UTC)

Northerners !

Ndola - another one of those dusty dorps circling on the edge of Centre of the Universe, its existence only to house the dreaded prison at Bwana Mkubwa.

Why didn't I get to go to this Monkey Fountain place ? - It must have been there when I was around as a lightie, I can see it on the Ndola map on the main road out to Nkana-Kitwe, which would only make it around 30 miles from home.

Rhodwins, Monkey Fountain, wonder what else I missed out on.

Nothing from Ndola for years, now I can't stop them sending stuff in.

Jislaaike !

Arthur

A few more memories of Monkey Fountain. How sad that this amenity no longer exists for local people now. I remember that there were wallabies and small buck also. Sorry I've no pic of the ground hornbill either.

Click for image. Click for image. Click for image. Click for image.

Click for image. Click for image. Click for image. Click for image.

Rachel Mounsey

Hi Arthur,

Please be kind enough to post the following message and photo. Many thanks in anticpation:

I can understand how the GNR message board had a record number of postings last month. I have just been away for 10 days and it took me over half an hour to read through the many messages posted in that time.

I too have been excited by the success of the South African swimming team in their fantastic gold medal swim as well as Kirtsy Coventry's two individual swimming medals for Zimbabwe. The Boks smashed the All-Blacks last Saturday but that wasn't shown on free-to-air TV in Australia as the rugby broadcaster (Channel 7) is also the broadcaster for the Olympics. I am sure they will be showing the decider berween the Wallabies and the Boks this Saturday (11pm ish Perth time). We are having a small farewell party on Saturday (I'm off to Abu Dhabi next week) and with an equal number of South African and Aussie guests we will really enjoy the game (if I'm allowed to turn on the TV after dinner). Go the Wallabies ..... On one of my posts last month I suggested that all games could end up as home wins and that is now looking more than probable. Talking of Abu Dhabi, the medals table shows that the United Arab Emirates have won a god medal. I either missed that or it wasn't covered on Aussie ..... probably the latter. Shooting maybe?

What prompted me to write was the stories about those Guinness World Record rugby posts at Luanshya. They really are huge and the photos on the linked sites show them off to perfection. I happen to have a photo from 1971 of some much smaller rugby posts at Nchanga Rugby Club.

Click for image.

Apologies to all but I have rather spoilt the photo by posing in the foreground!

Keith Binns

Rachel

Do they do fish & chips in Leeds? I might just come over there, it's only 30 miles from here. What's Leeds equivalent of Monkey Fountain? Then we can go visit Johnny in Scarborough, that's in Yorkshire too hey?



Arthur Steevens [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stockport, United Kingdom
Wednesday, August 18, 2004 at 23:55:51 (UTC)

Just to prove the old ones have not lost it completly, heres one that had me in stiches.

An elderly couple had been dating for some time. Finally they decided it was time for marriage.

Before the wedding, they went out to dinner and had a long conversation regarding how their marriage might work. They discussed finances, living arrangements and so on.

Finally the old gentleman decided it was time to broach the subject of their physical relationship. "How do you feel about sex?" he asked, rather trustingly.

"Well," she said, responding very carefully, "I'd have to say I would like it infrequently."

The old gentleman sat quietly for a moment. Then over his glasses, he looked her in the eye casually and asked:

"Was that one or two words?"

Donald Sydney [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Bristol, Avon, United Kingdom
Wednesday, August 18, 2004 at 21:09:54 (UTC)

VICKERS VISCOUNT - B.O.A.C. (Better On A Camel).

21 July 1957 left Heathrow London on way to Ndola Airport. Northern Rhodesia.

Stop - overs! Benghazi, Khartoum, Entebbe.

Landed at Ndola - 22 July 1957.

DAKOTA

My experience with this aircraft was in India whilst on honeymoon in 1970. We 'hedge hopped' from Rajistan to New Dehli.

Of the two! I preferred the V'Viscount. Perhaps the seats were more comfortable.

Norman Kenward [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Worcestershire, United Kingdom
Wednesday, August 18, 2004 at 21:04:28 (UTC)

Mathieu

Charles Baynham established a butchery in Chandlers Ford in 1978 and has gone from strength to strength a search on his name on Google will give details. I have been buying meat, wors and biltong from him for the last 15 years

Chris Cantrell [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hastings, East Sussex, United Kingdom
Wednesday, August 18, 2004 at 20:31:40 (UTC)

Dave Heaton recalls:
I think we must have worked together circa 1966/7, My first Job was a humble check clerk with the Std Bank north end, before and after the move to the "new" North End branch, If my memory serves the Manager was a Mr Pettit and the chief accountant was I think George Dobeson. I really did not enjoy banking and lasted about 18 months, I remember Richard Key was there as well am I right??

Quite right cartwright. I was at the main branch from 1964 until 1967 (including the temporary premises on Kent Square) when I moved to head office which was then upstairs at the new Northend Branch, and then later moved that office back to the new building on the original site next to what used to be the Q-Inn. You are right with the names - in fact I asked Ms Sleutel at one time if she was related to Richard Key, but all I got was some oblique response during a hissifit. Richard was a great guy. Mr Pettir was Rice Pettit. Several other names at North end branch - Robbie Rogers, Bruce Barry, Ray Napier, Erroll Whitely.

Happy days


Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Wednesday, August 18, 2004 at 20:00:22 (UTC)

Oooop's
2 picie's and 2 aircraft hadn't seen the other one, it sure is a Viscount, same type of aircraft that was shot down near Wankie

Chris Tamm
I think we must have worked together circa 1966/7, My first Job was a humble check clerk with the Std Bank north end, before and after the move to the "new" North End branch, If my memory serves the Manager was a Mr Pettit and the chief accountant was I think George Dobeson. I really did not enjoy banking and lasted about 18 months, I remember Richard Key was there as well
am I right??
David

David Heaton [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Derby, United Kingdom
Wednesday, August 18, 2004 at 18:55:01 (UTC)

I heard mention of Charles Bayhaan the butcher from Ndola.

As is prone to happen when someone mentions a particular subject.

Butcher.

Does anybody remember Jimmy the Butcher from Kabwe who in November 1972 asked all his customers to put up a deposit for the forthcoming Christmas orders. Lovely fellow, went back to Greece with all the Christmas deposits plus a sizeable amount in foreign exchange which was supposed to buy the latest and greatest in refrigerators.

I 'm not sure what happened but nobody saw Jimmy the Greek again.

David Hoyle [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Muscat, Oman
Wednesday, August 18, 2004 at 18:42:57 (UTC)

Bill Hunt

Check this out

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/modern_flight/mf3.htm

The Douglas Dakota/Dak/DC3/C47 was/is certainly known affectionately as the Gooney Bird, yet it looks nothing like the black footed albatross? Midway Island (on the North Western edge of the Hawaiian Islands, about 1,400 miles from Honolulu) is home to the real Gooney Bird, but was also "home" to the Dak during and after WW2.

The last time I flew in a Dak, was per courtesy of the Rhodesian Air Force. Flying low to avoid SAMs , we thundered our way from New Sarum to that lovely vacation hideaway on called Rukore on the Pork border on the extreme north east of Rhodesia, during the height of the rainy season when road travel was impossible. If any of you are "bushmen", now there was real bush!

Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Wednesday, August 18, 2004 at 18:25:13 (UTC)

Yere all wrong - It ain't a Viscount, it ain't a DC3, it is a Gooney Bird!!

Bill Hunt [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Widenham, Natal, South Africa
Wednesday, August 18, 2004 at 17:55:06 (UTC)

Northerners...

Here is an article and photo on Kirsty...

http://www.auburntigers.com/swimming/page.cfm?doc_id=718


Peter Dielissen [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
Wednesday, August 18, 2004 at 17:52:15 (UTC)

Whew - that was close. One six hundredth of a second the diffs between Silver and Gold. Well done Schoeman of South Africa. Sheep shearing in water?
Another great leaves our Cape Town shores soon. Corne Krige will be playing his last match for Western Province - against Griquas - on Friday night. The match won't be on TV, so let's hope there will be a great turnout at the Stadium before he exits to Britain.
Regards
CJ


Charles Cartmill [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stellenridge, Cape Town, South Africa
Wednesday, August 18, 2004 at 17:37:07 (UTC)

I certainly flew in Vickers Viscount in April 1961, don't remember whether it was the one I took the photo of. I was particularly interested because my brother was at that time a Test Pilot on them. It was a long flight in those days, with several landings, one of which was at Wadi Halfa, not long before it was drowned to make the Aswan Dam. We also landed at Benghazi, which had bad vibes because it wasn't all that long after the awful crash there.

Back to Ndola Speedway, my son Stephen, who scans the slides, tells me that his brother had written "Ndola Speedway" on the back of it. I plead old age for my mistakes!

I remember the butcher in Ndola. His place was in a street parallel with Cecil Avenue, on the lower side, didn't remember his name.

Cheers.....Rachel

Rachel Mounsey [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Leeds, United Kingdom
Wednesday, August 18, 2004 at 14:32:07 (UTC)

re Kirsty Coventry, she is the only medalist for Zims for swimming....
Ali

Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Wednesday, August 18, 2004 at 11:31:36 (UTC)

Can anyone remember Charles Bayhnam? He was a butcher in Ndola and left 1978, but I cant remember whereabouts in Ndola... Anyone know/remember?

Mathieu Walker [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Isle of Wight, United Kingdom
Wednesday, August 18, 2004 at 10:20:47 (UTC)

Linda.
It was mentioned that ms Coventry is the first Zimbabwean to win any Olympic medal ever...I wonder if Kevin Shone knows of her prowess in the pool.......

Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Wednesday, August 18, 2004 at 07:53:36 (UTC)

Gawd, you lot are getting painful with your puns or whatever they are.. grin. It's about time for some "knock knock" jokes. I can feel it in my bones. Along the lines of "who's there?" sort of, is a funny incident that happened to me years ago in Kitwe. I had to phone someone at the mines, and so I dialed the main switchboard number. When the local girl answered, she just politely said good morning and could she help me. So I asked if this was Anglo American, or whatever the mine was called in those days. Her response, "I'm not quite sure, but I will ask someone if it is." I laughed about that for ages.

What about Ms. Coventry from Zimbabwe, then? So far she has come out of nowhere and won two medals in the woman's swimming events she has entered. A silver and a bronze. Very young too. Our commentator over here covering the Olympics was quite gobsmacked. After all, aren't the Yanks supposed to win everything??

Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Wednesday, August 18, 2004 at 02:56:21 (UTC)

Craig ---- just had a call from Patti O'Furniture ..... she had to switch the tables tonight

Doug Waybush [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Maryland, USA, and London, England
Wednesday, August 18, 2004 at 02:04:51 (UTC)

Better go see the Headmaster myself

Vickers Viscount, Vickers Viscount, ...

Ian Singer has a very interesting aviation page on his website with some great photos and articles.

Go take a look.

Arthur


Arthur Steevens [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stockport, United Kingdom
Tuesday, August 17, 2004 at 22:16:20 (UTC)

Barry, David,

You're both correct !

Rachel Mounsey's photo is a Vickers Vicount, Peter Hill's photo is a Dakota.

Both photographs were taken at Ndola Airport.

Arthur


Arthur Steevens [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stockport, United Kingdom
Tuesday, August 17, 2004 at 21:44:20 (UTC)

I'm afraid that the Ndola plane is most certainly not a DC3 (or Dakota).
DC3's are "tail-draggers" - a tail wheel - rather than the "tricycle" undercarriage on the BUA photo.
Definitely a Vickers Viscount - take a look at http://airlines.afriqonline.com/airlines/197.htm (not a live link) and scroll down to see the relevant aircraft.


Barry Woodrow [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Reykjavik, Iceland
Tuesday, August 17, 2004 at 21:26:01 (UTC)

Dakota, DC3, C47 - all the same. The most recognised flying machine in the business, flying around everywhere. There are a few parked at Honolulu Airport and recently I saw one take off from there immediately after a 747. Stirring moment that!


Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Tuesday, August 17, 2004 at 21:25:08 (UTC)

The plane on the Ndola Airport photo is a Dakota or if you are a yank a DC3 they helped tow the gliders over Normandie on the 6 June 1944 and were still flying active ops with the Rhodesian Airforce in 1980
a fantistic old bus


David Heaton [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Derby, United Kingdom
Tuesday, August 17, 2004 at 19:48:46 (UTC)

yeth folks, consider us (Tina and I ) as the mad sisters of the GNR.......to see the brighter side of life is very much part of us.....and over 100% of the time we have a wonderful play on words, creating poetry, cheering one another up etc etc ............which of course led to the postings today......a sort of bubbling over with exhuberantic nonsence...the cork sort of popped....and I must reassure in the words of producers and directors..no one from the GNR is ever hurt , maimed or otherwise........oh just the odd yeti or too.....

Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Tuesday, August 17, 2004 at 14:36:42 (UTC)

Well, Ali and I are an extreme example because she is my "adopted" sister so we have this special (as in special education, ) "family" bond, and it seemed a great and harmless opportunity to tease Craig. My mad side took off with glee. As I inferred in my first email, lesson learned. Confidences and NOT gossiping or harming anyone are actually very important to both of us.

Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Tuesday, August 17, 2004 at 12:59:37 (UTC)

Whew! I thought for a minute I was going to have to self-censor my postings. How boring.. grin.

Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Tuesday, August 17, 2004 at 12:46:15 (UTC)

Well, well, well.

I step away from the computer (with my hands in the air) for five minutes and look what happens. Can't leave you people alone, can I?

The trouble with innuendo is that it can get one into trouble, especially because nothing is stated directly and so people often make incorrect assumptions. If the flurry of revealing e-mail to Tina is any indication, all sorts of incorrect assumptions were made and confidential information revealed. None of it made its way to me thank God, and I'd prefer it to stay that way. (Well, except for the one about the cousin maybe.) I get all the intrigue I need from watching Coronation Street, thanks all the same.

This also reveals that publicly alluding to the content of private e-mail messages should be done with care. I did make a side comment in a reply to an unrelated private e-mail message from Ali, and she shared that with Tina -- which was fine with me. My comment was misinterpreted along the way and before you know it....

Let that be a lesson to y'all. (Wagging finger.) Lecture over.

Mike,

Thanks for your post. While I am in lecture mode I will express the fervent wish that, if your e-mail address is going to stop working while you are away and will change on your return, you have made careful note of your user ID and password and put them in a "safe" place. Otherwise you'll be grovelling to me in November, telling me that you don't remember your password and that you can't have it sent to you through the password-retrieval form because your e-mail address doesn't work anymore.

This scenario may sound familiar to some members out there.

And enjoy your boat trip and try not to worry about the mean bastard that runs the GNR. :)

David,

Thanks also for your post, and I look forward to hearing from you via e-mail.


Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Tuesday, August 17, 2004 at 11:00:55 (UTC)

Craig, the same goes for me and yes I intend to carry on posting as often as I think I have something to offer.

I will try to explain what I meant regarding computer magic, but will send it to you not post it because it could highlight my total lack of computer knowledge.

It took me quite a few goes before I learnt how to send photographs to post without upsetting the Chief.

David Hoyle [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Muscat, Oman
Tuesday, August 17, 2004 at 09:59:27 (UTC)

Craig,
It was big of you to apologise but I think you are being too hard on yourself. I took no offence at all from your comment, to me it was just normal for a healthy and robust message board. I hope to continue contributing and I'm sure I will be brought to task and stand corrected on many occassions. Part of the fun.
From Friday I will not be able to connect to the web for 2 months, due to an extended boat trip, so I will be unable to contribute. This does not mean that I have the hump but just unavailable until November.

Take care and I look forward to resuming contact with GNR, the finding of which has been the best thing that has happened to me for a while.

Mike

Mike Edwards [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Billesdon, Leicestershire, United Kingdom
Tuesday, August 17, 2004 at 09:17:48 (UTC)

Northerners...

Take a peek at this e-bay item:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=378&item=6920039344&rd=1



Peter Dielissen [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
Tuesday, August 17, 2004 at 08:35:14 (UTC)

Craig and Ali

From my last post I have received emails from several different people asking was I talking about four different real live intrigues by mentioning sexual undertones. I'm floored and a bit embarrassed. Probably rightly so as even as a tease one should never comment on anything said in email and I am guilty of that. Please folks, Craig commenting on real people?

The comment on sexual undertones didn't refer to ANYTHING like THAT. It referred to a series of sexy puns in email and came up due to the joke about intimate relations with Helena Handbaskit. Those are the sexual undertones referred to. No I haven't heard the story about you and your cousin having too much to drink at the party in Krugersdorp. But I hope it was fun.

Please forgive me for being a humorous idiot and inadvertently getting buzzes going.


Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Tuesday, August 17, 2004 at 04:32:30 (UTC)

HAli!

Is Craigy musical? We could have Hartnett and the Harmonious Handbaskets unless he prefers The Sexual HUndertones

(Craig had made an unwary reference elsewhere to the GNR being held together by sexual undertones at the moment. What does he mean "at the moment" isn't that sort of a given around here on and off? And nobody make anything of the last three words......)

And now - Hafrica:

According to: "Diary of a District Officer" the Ngoni (originally Ancuni) were from East of Zululand, subject to the Zulus and well versed in their warlike ways. They came up through Mashonaland to beyond Lake Tanganika. They threw their weight around what is now the Chipata area for about 50 years decimating the northern tribes before settling down like a bunch of African Vikings and slowly taking on a lazy hazy existance until now it no longer occurs to any of their descendants to pillage a village.








Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Tuesday, August 17, 2004 at 02:34:53 (UTC)

Humorous Hartnett and his Handy hints strike again.....chortles giggles and mirth.......

Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Tuesday, August 17, 2004 at 01:43:07 (UTC)

And as evidence of that I have had to fix the HTML in two of my posts today!


Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Monday, August 16, 2004 at 23:28:53 (UTC)

Tina,

Helena and I are on a first-name basis -- intimately acquainted, you might even say.


Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Monday, August 16, 2004 at 23:25:10 (UTC)

Now Craig, that's delicious. Your remembering good ol' Helena Handbaskit is inspired! So many of us know her and have gone to her on occasion.

Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Monday, August 16, 2004 at 23:21:26 (UTC)

Hi Doug...

Will be interesting to see if you get a reply - let me know.

...Peter

Peter Dielissen [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
Monday, August 16, 2004 at 22:16:49 (UTC)

Deverell/MacGregor

I forgot to add that they have a Northern Rhodesian section, as they cater to all stamps to do with the Rhodesias and British Africa.


Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Monday, August 16, 2004 at 21:44:14 (UTC)

Stamps

Speaking of money, if you're interested in stamps (and even an Ndola lottery ticket from 1959) have a look at the excellent Deverell/MacGregor site at www.rhodesia.co.za. Just another site that is already on the GNR's links page. :)


Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Monday, August 16, 2004 at 21:39:50 (UTC)

More Money

You can find more money (notes and coins for sale) at www.afribilia.com.


Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Monday, August 16, 2004 at 20:55:47 (UTC)

Ali and Doug,

Thanks for your messages. Doug, I heard from another of your friends today. Does the name Helena Handbaskit ring a bell?


Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Monday, August 16, 2004 at 20:12:01 (UTC)

Thanks Peter for the link to the interesting site "A short history of Zambia."

Apart from numerous spelling errors the author also seems to make several factual errors.

Tim Lambert states, “ Bantu speaking immigrants arrived from the north.” Surely he means Bantu immigrants? I have never heard of a language called Bantu. Bantu just means people; it is the plural of Muntu or person. One can refer to the Bantu people as a group distinct from the Negros of West Africa or the Nilotic people of Sudan.

He gives the name of the King of the Lozi as Lewanki, not Lewanika.

He states, “Another group, the Ndebele moved to western Zambia”. I only know of the Matabele (sometimes called AmaNdebele) in Bulawayo in western Zimbabwe and the Ndebele are in Limpopo province in South Africa. The Matabele did raid into Zambia but as far as I know never settled there.

I have emailed him and will be interested to read his reply.

Cheers - Doug


Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Monday, August 16, 2004 at 19:56:56 (UTC)

Thanks Tina for your encouraging words, I am very humbled, I am very focused at the moment with my work at Ishar, Have been asked by "The Carer's association of WA " to do a display for the Alzheimer's association..as well as my bi-monthly health display.......

oh and by the way......the little chameleon will sprout wings tomorrow ......

Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Monday, August 16, 2004 at 18:16:21 (UTC)

Ali

Talking of the lovely Sho and her book, as you were, along with Africa, it is just really cool to see you working in her organization using your humanitarian interests and creative gifts in the newsletter and to publicize events. I had printed a couple of your pictures to show a bud at work, a couple of days ago. a hibiscus and the dancing cranes. Knowing your work I was still startled at how alive your work is when printed. The colors and textures jump off the page. Your work has a great vibrancy and life.



Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Monday, August 16, 2004 at 17:36:26 (UTC)

Tony Austin,

The stopping place in Notrh Africa you refer to is Benghazi. I remember it well because there was a plane accident there about 6 weeks before we flew to The UK from Ndola on a Viscount. I was about 11 and was petrified and spent the hours approaching Benghazi watching the wing ready to tell the pilot of he was too low. This was apparantly the cause of the accident.

Mike

Mike Edwards [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Billesdon, Leicestershire, United Kingdom
Monday, August 16, 2004 at 16:26:48 (UTC)

H-E-L-L-O !
South Africans win 4 x 100 Mens' Freestyle relay in Olympics !
Lekker soos 'n krekker !!!!


Glen Drake [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
California, United States
Monday, August 16, 2004 at 15:46:16 (UTC)

Much thanks, Rachel Mounsey and Lynda Fielder for more excellent Ndola photos.

Tony Austin: I think the plane is a Vickers Viscount-800 though I'm not absolutely sure on that one.

Regards -- Jon

Jonathan McCallum [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Fayetteville, Arkansas, United States
Monday, August 16, 2004 at 15:29:32 (UTC)

Tony Austin,

You're probably right about the wrongly named photo, It's a long time ago (1961) but I couldn't think of any place other than an airport that would look like that! We lived across the road from there, on the Chichele Plantation, maybe I was trying to take a photo of home.

My daughter was at Llewellin High from 1958 to 1962, and gave me these musings yesterday.

Mr Hesford....Deputy Headmaster, taught Latin. Used to be a professional footballer before being a teacher. Read in the paper a few years back that he died. One son was a professional Rugby player, I think.
Mrs Gilligan....taught biology, had a daughter called Beverly.
Mrs Katz...can't remember subject.
Mr Shatz...taught physics - was scary !
Mr Basel...was young and dishy and made chemistry unusually popular with the girls.
Mrs Todd..P.E. for girls
Mr Wade...generally known as "wee willy Wade" because he was short. Was Scottish, taught maths and I think died long ago.
Can remember lots more, but not names.

From Ndola Primary she remembers Mrs Morris, whose husband was a doctor, possibly an anaesthetist and whose daughter was Jessica.
Mr Payne was Head Teacher, daughter Christine, son David.
Mrs Conway.

More photos from Ndola coming.

Rachel


Rachel Mounsey [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Leeds, United Kingdom
Monday, August 16, 2004 at 13:57:15 (UTC)

Hi Ali,

there is no antidote for that "terrible " bug. Even after nearly nine years it hits us very hard when we talk with people here. One needs to experience the bug to know what it means. The only "cure" is to go back to see and feel it all over again.

Regards Anja

PS: Bryan says: "you'll never be cured!"

It is good to hear about successfull athletes from Africa again. Motto: The BEST should win!

Hi Linda,

would love to meet you at the reunion next year in Zambia.
Love your humor, I am sure we would have a ball (you can take that in many ways). I know plenty of things of men, hence I was on a working holiday on a container ship for three months ( crew of 38 men + captain). As you might imagine I am well travelled. I have had my fun and Bryan gets the benefit. Anja



Bryan Baker [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Western Australia, Australia
Monday, August 16, 2004 at 13:38:12 (UTC)

Hi all GNR members, I was wondering if anyone in the dog showing world in Zambia remembers me? I have as I always have had a very bad memory for name, so if you do remember me from showing dogs, please give me some clues as to who you are.
Do any of you remember John and Nanette Kerr or know their wherabouts, they came from Kenya, John worked on the Kariba Dam I think.
I am also interested to know wher Dave Groom is these days, he worked for NCCM at Chingola in the 70's
Hope someone can help. Thanks Bill

Bill MacKenzie [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Shrewsbury, England
Monday, August 16, 2004 at 13:17:52 (UTC)

David Hoyle,

My memory cells are a bit rusty now, but I'm pretty sure that by the time I returned to England in 1971 the National Health and National Insurance had been split into separate government departments.

Over the years successive British governments have tinkered and fiddled with the rules, the result being that we all seen to pay more and receive less, but one thing that never changes is that our rulers always seem to think they know how to spend our money better than we do.

Pissed off? Me? Never! President Blair wouldn't allow it.

P.S. Speaking of money, many thanks for the pictures of the old Zambian Sterling notes.


John Whitham [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Windsor, England
Monday, August 16, 2004 at 12:49:08 (UTC)

Linda.... Yes I agree with you......a lovelly result...a change of the guard :0)

I noticed your dear old friend Eric the Eel has had a few problems, he was meant to swim in this years Olympics ( he said he had improved over 100% )......but he had problems with his accreditation :0(

Today I had a wonderful day talking with one of my friends , she has just returned from a wonderful 8 weeks away traversing the US (West coast - West coast) London, then Spain (Barcelona) , Kenya and Finaly Tanzania, she would have loved to have visited Zambia and South Africa..but she had to be back in Perth to start working on her book on women in leadership.
before she went I told her to be careful........very careful..there is this terrible bug in Africa that will bite you and once you have been bitten, you will never be the same........guess what..it did bite her......she fell in love with Africa in a biiiiiig way............

Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Monday, August 16, 2004 at 10:26:38 (UTC)

WAY TO GO SOUTH AFRICA MEN'S RELAY SWIMMERS!!

Talk about smoke the competition! What an incredible win. It's about time we saw someone from Africa win a gold and very well deserved it was too.



Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Monday, August 16, 2004 at 03:27:52 (UTC)

Craig - you , of all people , have no reason to apologise on GNR.......

Doug Waybush [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Maryland, USA, and London, England
Monday, August 16, 2004 at 01:46:15 (UTC)

Craig .. Your sense of humour is very much enjoyed on the GNR......... along with Arties and Heather's ;0)
Artie, just think with all the time you spend scanning for us ,the fish in the rivers and streams will have a chance to get fatter and fatter........ giggles

Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Monday, August 16, 2004 at 01:14:51 (UTC)

CONGATULATIONS CHISELA !!
A little while back I mentioned that we in Perth have the pleasure of a Zambian Swimmer training here....
In this morning's Western Australian, tucked in amongst the news of our wonderful Australian Swimmers (very Parochial ,our Papers) a little article......

"It took Just 1 min. 09.95 sec. for Chisela Kanchela to start and finish his Olympic experience.
The Perth-based Zambian qualified 57th fastest out of 60 starters in the 100m breaststroke on Saturday.
The heat swim was his only race but already Kanchela is looking forward to the Beijing Olympics. "It was awesome, I learnt a lot - I was pretty nervous from the start," Kanchela said. " I'm going to go back and start working for the next four years."
He also had a message for school friends at All saints College in Leeming:' Thanks Guys, for supporting hey , you are a great mob.

57th in the world, not a bad effort hey guys....ali

Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Monday, August 16, 2004 at 01:04:28 (UTC)

Rachel Mounsey

Great photos of Ndola. I spent nearly 8 years at the City Council in the Treasury department working in those offices.

The second photo of Ndola Airport labeled airstrip-ndola looks more like the Ndola Motor Sport Club. The road at the top is the Ndola Luanshya road and in the bottom right corner you can just see the clearance for the powerline to Kitwe.

I remember the BUA HS748 as I think I flew to UK on it. It was either that or a Brittania. We stopped at Enetebbe and then I think at Embakazi (?sp) somewhere in North Africa.

Great memories ...

Tony Austin [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Houston, Texas, United States
Sunday, August 15, 2004 at 22:56:02 (UTC)

Sorry that should of been Field Craft, I before E and all that.

Donald Sydney [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Bristol, Avon, United Kingdom
Sunday, August 15, 2004 at 22:19:45 (UTC)

Mike Wilson

The Spenglers were killed in the late 70's. I terribly sad time. I have responded to Ian Graves request for information of the old days and he has agreed to write about David in their forthcoming book. My sister Evelyn was living in Zambia at that time and I will ask her for more details.

Yes - its my sister Evelyn who now lives in Brisbane, who won the World Title for deep diving - twice. The first time winning at 110' without any breathing aparatus and the second time 125' 4" - that was in the Bahamas. The Kitwe newspaper ran the stories on the front page and were so very proud of her achievements. She was trained by Fred Baldasar - the mens champion who she was also dating (I think).

I'm sure when Evelyn reads this she will want to add some information of interest.

Come on Evelyn - we know you read this page.



Esther Pettersson [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Australia
Sunday, August 15, 2004 at 22:18:51 (UTC)

Robert Worrill,

Yes, I remember Mr Finch well, he also had another way of getting the boys to toe the line. The back rest of a chair, held in two hand, with a step back, then "bloody hell" that hurt. Another teacher of pain fame was a Mr Clark (maths & history) who through the blackboard cleaner at the boys heads. If you were hit it was your fault for not ducking. He also used to come up behind with a 12 inch ruler and hit us across the fingers with the sharp edge. That is until one of the boys looked down at his fingers, stood up and dropped Mr Clark with one punch. He then went to see Jack Crawford and told him that he had punched Mr Clark out. He told him that he was going home to talk to his father about it, and would be back latter with his father. We never saw Mr Clark again, I later heard that he had left his old school due to throwing the board duster at a boy who did duck, but the young girl behind him was hit with the full force in the face. In this day and age Graham would have been suspended for a week and Mr Clark would have faced a term in one of the govements hotels.
Thanks also for setting me stright on the old steam traction engine, I was begining to think I had lost it and it was all a dream. I have a lot of memorys of the whole of the park as we used to do tracking and feild craft in it as boy scouts. Do you remember the 7th Ndola Sea Scouts, or the 13 th Ndola Senior Scouts. I was a patrol leader in both.

Donald Sydney [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Bristol, Avon, United Kingdom
Sunday, August 15, 2004 at 22:17:16 (UTC)

Northerners...

Found on the web - a short history of Zambia:

http://www.localhistories.org/zambia.html

August 15 Times of Zambia article:

http://www.times.co.zm/news/viewnews.cgi?category=6&id=1046896821





Peter Dielissen [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
Sunday, August 15, 2004 at 21:47:52 (UTC)

Northerners !

I met up with Peter Hills again at his home just outside Chester last weekend.

This was so I could drop off Peter's Rhokana Review magazines and also leave David Grays copies with Peter. We had conscripted some kind soul, who was about to visit the UK, to take them back with him to Cape Town and deliver them to David.

Well since then things have moved on, our volunteer, Peters good friend Tony Raunch, was persuaded to bring along the rest of Davids collection on his way out to the UK, around twelve copies still waiting for scanning.

David then sent me this fantastic e-mail message in the last few days before Tony left for the UK today.

Hi Arthur and Peter

Ann and I visited Skatie and Avril in Fish Hoek today and came away with 11 of the missing 13 RRs so we now have to find May 1961 and July 1961 to complete the set! Actually it would be best to get another copy of October 1955 as well because someone has defaced one picture adding horns and a goatee to some poor priest. July 1956 is also a bit tatty with pages having stuck together and torn apart. Skatie has found a possible source for a complete set of RRs in Lusaka and has contacted Heather to see if she can get the last missing issues there. So on the whole it is good news. Skatie also has some copies of Nchanga and Luanshya magazines so it looks like your scanning will never end!!! I will contact Tony tomorrow and arrange to deliver them to his place of work by Wednesday. With a bit of luck you will have them about a week from now. Lots of interesting things in these mags! Is Steeve Steevens your Dad Arthur? Peter I even saw a picture of you running in a race at a FKS sports day! Happy scanning.

Cheers

David Gray.

Fantasic work guys - all of you have worked so hard to help me out on this mission - to get the whole set of the magazines from the first issue in October 1951 through to the very last in December 1962 scanned and onto CD. With just two issues now missing I am so very close my goal. When I saw David Grays photo of the Rhokana Library with all the books on the floor I was very concerned that we would never find many of the magazines again, but I was wrong.

Skatie Fourie, Guy Hobbs, Peter Hills, David Gray, my sincere thanks to each and every one of you.

Also a big thank-you Tony for being a conscripted courier and John Tyne for first putting me in touch with Peter over two years ago now.

Northerners - I will let you all know when my mission is finally complete and the CD's are available.

Arthur

More..

While I was over at Peter and Sandy Hills sat drinking their Castle and eating from a tasty braai in their garden I was given a CD by Peter on which there is a Powerpoint presentation Peter has put together detailing his rescue in 1970 of a 1929 Morris Minor 4 seat Tourer (Chiripula) registration number NK3177 crashed and abandoned in the bush in Northern Rhodesia around 1954. Peter found the wreckage and air-freighted it over to the UK in 1984 where it now is fully restored and running. A marvellous vintage car.

Hopefully I can work out a way of putting this presentation on the site so you all can see it. A very interesting story.

Peter also sends this photo in the hope that some of you can fill in the missing names of the people on this photo.

Peter Hills’s Birthday Party at the Boy Scouts Hall, with Senior Scouts 31st May, 1961, Kitwe, Northern Rhodesia

Click for image.

Back : Ian Watson, Snooky Allen, Bruce Curl, Willem Van Amersfort, Gary Hovelmeier, ?, Louis Foukes, Dennis Skorpen

Centre : ?, Dianne Stock, ?, ?, Lyn Ablett, ?, ?, Beryl Ablett

Front : Colin Hills, Barry Anderson, ?, Colin Malanic, ?, Basil Skorpen, Joy?, Iona (Scottish name)?, Frank Bosco (Senior Scout Master)

Sitting : Peter Hills, ?

Who took the photo with Peter’s camera?

Peter also sent these two photos, note the teddy boy haircut.

Click for image. Click for image.

Thanks Peter and Sandy for your kind hospitality.

Arthur

Hi All

Arthur...Thanks for letting us see the photos of Monkey Fountain, we spent some really great days there as children

Click for image.

The photo was taken 1967 at Monkey Fountain.,,, My mum Lill dad Nobby and my brothers Glen and Alan, The Hornbill was called Oscar as I recall, my youngest brother will always remember him, Alan was always being chased by Oscar,but it was good fun.

Click for image.

Does any one remember "The old Bull and Bush" in Ndola? this photo was also taken in 1967,we too spent some great days there.
I read the letters every day,brings back good memories of the great life out in Zambia.Keep up the good work.

Lynda

Lynda Fielder

Hi Arthur,

Never one to resist a challenge! So here goes;

Click for image. Click for image. Click for image. Click for image. Click for image.

I took these slides in the early sixties when I bought a Braun Electromatic camera. It had a fixed focus and, I suppose, was an early version of an "idiot's camera" but there wasn't much choice then.


Click for image. Click for image. Click for image. Click for image. Click for image. Click for image.

The roundabout was at the junction of Broadway, Luanshya Road and Nkana Road.

The Dag Hammarskjold Memorial was the original one, made from stones from different countries of the UN.

The UK stone was from the Lake District.

Rachel

Rachel Mounsey

ps......You can still come to Leeds!!

First Issue by Bank of Zambia in 1974.

Click for image. Click for image. Click for image. Click for image. Click for image. Click for image.

Ten Shillings, One Pound and Five Pounds.

All in perfect, uncirculated condition and rare.

David Hoyle

Mike

This "map"

First, I noticed about the site Linda posted on the message board is that the site is American. Now we all know what the Founder has warned us about trusting the Americans. The site is likely used by the CIA so that their operatives can print off some cash when needed if they're stuck in any country and need a few spondoolies for a visit to a Hooters.

Second, I also saw this map on the CIA's site around the time Bush decided to invade Afghanistan and it was also later around before they went to Iraq looking for WMD's. This is where they went wrong. Kabwe and Kabul, Baghdad and Bancroft, all similar sounding places. Only trust maps you see on this site. BTW - Boones Bar has now been renamed The Blush & Blaire.

To all the contributors whose photos and scans I posted today - thank you very much on behalf of us all.

Arthur



Arthur Steevens [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stockport, United Kingdom
Sunday, August 15, 2004 at 21:09:55 (UTC)

David Hoyle and Mike Edwards,

I apologise unreservedly for the apparent harshness of my reaction to Mike's post. I have run into few people in my life who truly understand and fully enjoy my sense of humour, and this is only exacerbated on-line where people don't even have the benefit of seeing me give a wry smile or roll my eyes theatrically when making such a comment. Then again, I also tend to take things said on-line (including in e-mail) too seriously sometimes, and for the same reasons. In my own defence, I think most of the members who have actually met me think I'm not such a bad oke.

My comment was not intended to criticise anyone for anything (and it certainly wasn't meant to be aggressive) but, in my own way, to take advantage of the conversation to point out another area of the Web site. I sometimes get the impression that many people here think that the GNR is nothing more than a message board; I can guarantee that if it was, you wouldn't even know my name because you'd never have to hear from me because the message board just runs itself -- at least, from a technological point of view. I'd also have to deal with about 500 fewer e-mails (July's GNR total) every month.

David, I also made the point of telling Mike (before you posted your message) that there is absolutely no prohibition on discussing things that have been discussed before. Such an assertion would be absurd, because we have new members joining almost every day. The rugby posts in Luanshya have also been discussed before -- no big deal. If someone jumped on you for bringing up a previously-discussed topic, I'm pretty sure it wasn't me. If someone pointed out a feature of the site (i.e., the link, next to the name of the author of a message, to his or her profile) and said you asked a "stupid question" -- again, I apologise for that person's rudeness. Was it me? (Serious question -- not trying to be sarcastic.) I can't believe I would have made such a caustic remark, but anything's possible. I also don't believe that I am in the habit of "standing us in the corner, giving us lines or worse the stick." I take a very laissez faire approach to this message board and participate (for the most part) as just another member. I am not here to be the official Welcome Wagon or to boss people around every five minutes; I don't do that in my "real" life and I find people who do it (on- or off-line) to be very annoying.

As for the last bit of your post about clicking on a link and understanding what was going on -- I'm not sure if I follow you. Specifically I don't understand what you mean by, "... take us through all this magic". If you'd like to elaborate on that then I can address your suggestion.


Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Sunday, August 15, 2004 at 20:32:58 (UTC)

John Edmond
Yes - John was a member of my Territorial Battalion - 3rd Royal Rhodesian Regiment.
He started a group called The Bushkats - a trio, if my memory serves me.
Guitar, Plywood Tea Box Bass & drums??
These guys provided much needed troopie entertainment in the Bundu & at Kitwe showgrounds during frequent callups during the UNIP & Congo crises.
Diabolical Rugby Posts
Those abnormally high Luanshya rugby posts were a clever ploy by the Roan skebengas to make it difficult for visiting teams to score penalties & conversions.
The top of the posts would actually sway with any slight breeze. The home team were familiar with prevailing wind direction & practiced their kicking for long periods prior to matches.
Visiting teams complained to the NR rugby union but were told "We can't change things now because this is the only entry that NR has in Guiness Record Book."
My club, Mufulira Wanderers, always solved the problem by scoring enough unconverted tries to win anyway!



Bill Hunt [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Widenham, Natal, South Africa
Sunday, August 15, 2004 at 19:30:29 (UTC)

Tony Austin,

Thanks for the information about Geoff. He spent time in both Kitwe and Luanshya and his family ere retailers so it seems to add up. I will see if I can make enquiries from friends in SA.

Mike

Mike Edwards [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Billesdon, Leicestershire, United Kingdom
Sunday, August 15, 2004 at 19:09:19 (UTC)

Ali,

Good memory. Almost as good as mine. ;)


Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Sunday, August 15, 2004 at 10:29:09 (UTC)

Luanshya Rugby Posts

And more at www.ex-luanshya.com/sections/rugby_club/ex_rugby_club.php.


Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Sunday, August 15, 2004 at 10:27:25 (UTC)

giggles .......I didn't have to look up that google machine, I have got an Africans memory, I remember the GNR talking about the goal posts awhile back..........

Typical, the Olympics are on, and I get woken up at 8am last week and again this week to go bike riding, last week could only manage 4kms, and my legs were like jelly, today.....still jelly but nearly 8 kms.......look out the next tour de France
Ali

Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Sunday, August 15, 2004 at 09:17:28 (UTC)

Oooooooops sorry Fiona Gayther (née Ferguson) I did not pinch your link , I found it independently, we posted at round about the same time. Great minds etc. Google is like a miracle especially images. I just searched for "Luanshya posts" and up it came, the link that is.

Robert Worrill [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Christchurch, New Zealand
Sunday, August 15, 2004 at 08:21:27 (UTC)

Best pic here:

http://www.austin-healey-club-ec.fsnet.co.uk/luanshya_rugby_posts.jpg

Robert Worrill [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Christchurch, New Zealand
Sunday, August 15, 2004 at 08:16:31 (UTC)

Sorry about the poor spelling of Luanshya in the last post, here is a link to a picture:

http://www.austin-healey-club-ec.fsnet.co.uk/a_tall_tale.htm

Robert Worrill [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Christchurch, New Zealand
Sunday, August 15, 2004 at 08:11:54 (UTC)

When I was a boy Mum and Dad used to play tennis, normally Round Robins at the Luansha tennis club and I remember going through some gates on many occasions and marvelling at how high the rugby posts seemed in an adjoining field. Taller than any I had seen before, or since. Later I think they were reduced in size.

Robert Worrill [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Christchurch, New Zealand
Sunday, August 15, 2004 at 08:09:02 (UTC)

Phillip

Indeed, Luanshya did and still has the tallest rugby posts in the world. I saw them last year and yes, they are in the Guinness Book of Records. This link will tell you something about them.

http://www.austin-healey-club-ec.fsnet.co.uk/a_tall_tale.htm

John Edmonds lived in Luanshya and my family knew him well (I think my Dad was in the Terrorial Army (?) with him). He went on to become very well known in South Africa. I emailed him a couple of years ago and got a lovely reply back. Many years ago did a performance in Welkom and prior to the show my mother sent him a messsage to tell him we were in the audience. At the end of his show he dedicated a song to my Dad - The Rhodesian Paratroupers Song - "they scraped him off the tarmac like a lump of strawberry jam". We couldn't wipe the grin of Dad's face for weeks afterwards.

Fiona Gayther (née Ferguson) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tytherington, Gloucestershire, United Kingdom
Sunday, August 15, 2004 at 08:07:10 (UTC)

Hi Philip,
The goal posts are the tallest in the world.......

Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Sunday, August 15, 2004 at 06:58:15 (UTC)

Hi All
With rugby in the news at the moment I have a query which someone may be able to throw some light on.

I have been listining to John Edmond's CD "FRIENDS RHODIES AND COUNTRYMEN" -- THEN AND NOW the second track is called the Guinness book of records.

In this song he sings about the Roan Antilope Rugby club and some of the words go like this:-

"They mocked our club and even our posts and then I called the team
and that night we built the the highest posts the the world had ever seen
110 feet high they stood for all the world to see.

They said you going in the Guinness book of records
for what you did the world is going to see
They said you going in the Guinness book of records
Your name is going down in history

Oh! if you care
Have a look it's there
It's in the book
The Guinness book."

As a youngster my eldest brother Alf played rugby at the mine club (I don't know for who) and a little bell is ringing in my head. I seem to recall him talking about rugby posts at some time.

Does anyone have any information about what John Edmond is sining about?

Cheers



Philip Pain [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Eshowe, Kwazulu Natal, South Africa
Sunday, August 15, 2004 at 06:24:46 (UTC)

Hi Peter,

Worse than not giving Broken Hill its due importance, KIWE IS NOT SHOWN AT ALL!! What is the world coming to.



Mike Wilson [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Dawlish, Devon, United Kingdom
Sunday, August 15, 2004 at 06:20:08 (UTC)

Tanzania Tourist Corp.

In doing some tidying up I have found a large manila envelope from the Tanzania Tourist Corp. in New York, post marked in 1985, sent to a prospective tourist in Canada. It contains quite a few colour brochures with horrible pictures clearly taken in the 1970s! I was about to toss it out when I realised that, if it was full of Zambian stuff, it would be of interest to people on the GNR. So, knowing that many of you have lived in places other than just Northern Rhodesia / Zambia, I wonder if there is anyone out there with an interest in old Tanzanian tourist brochures. If you want them, let me know and I'll send them to you. First come, first served.


Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Sunday, August 15, 2004 at 04:46:24 (UTC)

Interesting story from the BBC on Zambia this Friday.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3563574.stm

Not every African leader would be ordering an enquiry or suggesting slashing official trips.

Story off to the side that they are trying to pass legislation in Zambia whereby convicted hackers will get 25 years! Can we do that for convicted virus writers in the rest of the world?

Tina


Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Sunday, August 15, 2004 at 03:32:50 (UTC)

Mike Edwards

Last time I saw Geoff Abrahams (if he was the one from Luanshya) he was running an Adult store in Midrand between Johannesburg and Pretoria. That would have been about 8 years ago.

Great to see the resurgence of Ndola-ites.

Cheers ....

Tony Austin [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Houston, Texas, United States
Saturday, August 14, 2004 at 23:08:56 (UTC)

Looking for Stories for a Book from Rhodesians

The following message is posted on behalf of non-member Ian Graves. Please contact him directly as described below if you can help him. Thanks.

Hello Rhodesian's.

Hi, we are from Bulawayo and now living in the mud pond called UK, our children (2 boys) are all grown, with one married (eldest is in Iraq on tour of duty) and the other just left college and confused. We (my wife and I) are giving up on the rat race, selling our house and then jumping on our boat and going sailing full time.

Whilst sailing I would like to attempt to write a book about white Rhodesians lives then and now... and end with a review of the country as it now is. I will have some time to research whilst sailing as we intend to start our trip by visiting East Africa. We will be in contact with the continent and able to visit Zimb's at will.

Now all you guys have a story to tell, so let not Rhodesia pass into obscurity... help us tell our stories, don't allow the world believe the propaganda the liberal wimps and our corrupt black politicians have put out there... lets tell THE TRUTH OF WHAT REALLY WENT ON!!!!

Send me your stories please! I will re-write and before putting it in the book get your approval and consent.

So if you want to participate and tell your story send to me at my Web address e-mail (Web e-mail can be accessed whilst sailing) our web address is www.ucinga.com

Regards Ian & Carol

If you can help Ian, please contact him directly at ian@ucinga.com. Thanks very much.


Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Saturday, August 14, 2004 at 22:24:12 (UTC)

Northerners...

A success story...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/picture_gallery/04/africa_exiled_zimbabwe_farmer/html/1.stm

Peter Dielissen [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
Saturday, August 14, 2004 at 22:13:04 (UTC)

David Hoyle,

Thanks for your message of support. I do intend to continue to have my say although I may be quiet for a while after next Friday as I am going to do some cruising on the canals in England. If anyone is interested I will post some of experiences when I return. Note for LINDA, the Yanks just love coming on our canals, ever been tempted?

Just a thought for all those Bokke and All Black fans, don't forget who the world champions are - ENG-A-LAND.

Mike Edwards [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Billesdon, Leicestershire, United Kingdom
Saturday, August 14, 2004 at 20:41:37 (UTC)

Northerners...

From the Bank of Zambia site where I should have looked first...

The Kwacha (ZMK) is the current legal tender of the Republic of Zambia.The Zambian Kwacha (K) is divided into 100 Ngwee. Prior to independence, notes and coin in denominations of £10, £5, 10s and 5s, 2s-6d, 2s, 1s, 6d, 3d, and 2d circulated in the country as legal tender. After independence, the Bank issued the first Zambian notes and coin in similar denominations, although different in design. In order to allow for a smooth changeover, the two currencies circulated alongside each other until December 15, 1965, when the old currencies were withdrawn from circulation for subsequent demonetization, except for the 3d coin which continued to circulate, for a brief period. Together with the Zambian £. s. d. currency, a 5s proof coin to commemorate independence was issued. It was later followed by an ordinary 5s coin for circulation purposes.

The New Kwacha
In 1967, the Government decided in favour of decimalisation and designated the main unit as Kwacha comprising of 100 ngwee. The Kwacha was equivalent to the old ten shillings. The Currency Act, 1967 replaced the Zambian £. s. d. currency for new Kwacha notes, and ngwee coin. Thus on January 16, 1968, the Zambian Pound was replaced by the Kwacha with the new Official Rate equal to one half the old unit, or US$1.40. The £5 note became K10, the £1 note K2, then ten shilling note one Kwacha note and a new 50 ngwee note was introduced to correspond to the old 5 shillings, 2 shilling coin became 20 ngwee, one shilling coin became 10 ngwee and 6 pence became 5 ngwee. At the same time, the currency was decimalized.

Following the de facto devaluation of the U.S. Dollar on August 15, 1971, the Kwacha, through its link to the Pound Sterling fixed at K1.7094= £1.00, began to appreciate vis-a-vis the American unit, beginning August 23rd. On December 3rd, Zambia broke her currency's ties to the British unit and attached the Kwacha to the U.S. Dollar, thereby reestablishing the Official Rate of US$ 1.40, a de facto devaluation. In the wake of the U.S. Dollar devaluation on December 18th, the Kwacha's gold content was reduced 7.89% on December 22nd, thus paralleling the American unit's devaluation and leaving the Official Rate unchanged. A 4.5% fluctuation range for the Kwacha was also introduced. With the dismantling of the Sterling Area on June 23, 1972, along with the floating of the Pound Sterling, Zambia relinquished the monetary privileges she had enjoyed as a member of the Area. Following the U.S. Dollar devaluation in February 1973, the Official Rate of the Zambian currency was realigned to US$1.555, effective February 15th, based on the Kwacha's unchanged gold content. There are no minimum reserve requirements of gold and foreign exchange for the nation's currency. Again, a change-over period was allowed to complete the withdrawal of Zambian £. s. d. notes and coin from circulation and these ceased to be legal tender on January 31, 1974.



Peter Dielissen [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
Saturday, August 14, 2004 at 19:38:47 (UTC)

Mike Edwards.

You have my fullest sympathies, Why?

I remember being brave and posting something on the GNR that I remembered and I was immediately put to question as in "if you had read the person's profile you wouldn't have asked such a stupid question in the first instance".

I erred again and asked something that had been discussed on the message board in the past and was immediately informed that this has all been covered before i.e. what are you bringing this subject up again for?

You shouldn't have to offer excuses like (I'm the new boy in town) as a defence. The reason for any agression on this board is hard to understand but my bit of advice would be just perservere and keep sending your messages.

Craig Harnett.
Tonight for the first time, I saw a link which I was able to click on and for the first time I nearly understood what was available through all these wonderful connections. Perhaps for the un-educated you could take us through all this magic, a stage or bit at a time. I think it would be really appreciated instead of standing us in the corner, giving us lines or worse the stick.

Thank you Ceedi.


David Hoyle [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Muscat, Oman
Saturday, August 14, 2004 at 18:52:46 (UTC)

John Whitham,

Sorry for delay in replying which has been due to business and travel but basically the reason for my early reply was this {:-)

1. As a young person starting work in England in 1962 we were given a National Health Card which was stamped on a weekly basis. To get your cards, as in being fired meant that you were given your National Health card to give to your next employer who would then be responsible to put stamps on it.

Next step.

2. We all were given a National Health Insurance Number which is still present in many forms today i.e. My number is on a National Insurance Numbercard which refers to a N.I. Number; subtle; but the word Health has now been dropped.

All this makes sense with what you were stating apart from the following.

1. On the face, across the top of this card it states
Department of Health & Social Security.

2. On the reverse it refers to DHSS i.e. Department of Health and Social Services.

It doesn't matter what those early payments are being classified as a payment towards today, I maintain that as an expatriate working overseas (including Zambia) I have been contributing into the U.K. National Health (as in medical) system. However, it has now been decided that I am no longer allowed (free) medical treatment in U.K. I use the word (free) because as I have made contributions to the N.H.I. all my life , how can it be classed as free.

As you correctly and rightly say, it is now considered that all these contributions now only go towards supporting my retirement pension.

BULS##T


David Hoyle [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Muscat, Oman
Saturday, August 14, 2004 at 18:21:00 (UTC)

The Muscat Man on Zambia currency conversion, reminds me of those amazing 3 days at our North End branch, when I did nothing else except change currency. The Indians came in with mountains of the old stuff, the picannins with pennies, tickies, and sixpences. The old currency became obsolete 90 days after conversion. In my banking days, I operated under the following currency environments:

Gwelo - Sterling
Tzaneen - Decimal
Lusaka - Sterling, and a conversion to Decimal
Salisbury - Sterling, and a conversion to Decimal
London - Sterling
Joburg - Decimal
London - Decimal
Los Angeles - Decimal

Ever tried recently to calculate 3/4% on Pounds 23/16/2
Phew!

There was a contest for the name before they decided on Kwachas and Ngwees. Someone suggested Bwanas and Munts! (err, in case of clarification, that is 100 munts to one bwana)

Golden days

Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Saturday, August 14, 2004 at 17:57:55 (UTC)

Zambian Currency.

Independance day for Zambia was 24th October 1964.

1. In 1964 the Bank of Zambia issued 3 bank notes {:-)

a. 10 Shillings, b. 1 Pound and c. 5 Pounds.

2. The first Kwacha notes were issued in 1968 i.e.

a. 50Ngwee b. 1 Kwacha c. 2 Kwacha d. 10 Kwacha and e. 20 Kwacha

All these notes command an extremely high buying price but only in uncirculated condition. I am proud to own a set of uncirculated 1964 issue and all but one of the 1968 Issue.



David Hoyle [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Muscat, Oman
Saturday, August 14, 2004 at 17:41:24 (UTC)

Doug,

Hawaiian Time is exactly 12 hours behind Sowf Efrika. We watched the game our time at 0400 this morning (Saturday). If I were to start digging a hole in the ground here, a really very deep hole, I would end up in Cecil Square, Salisbury. Talk about being as far away as I can - if I were to move any further, I would get closer!

Excellent game, a real classic test match between 2 titans. I have to agree that the Bucke (God, I hate that term - is there no room on Robben Island for Bladen?) are back from their protracted drought. They have finally stopped kicking away possession. The hatrick has not been completed since 1981 when Ray Mordt (Rhodesian) managed it in New Zealand. I did watch that game too, in Joburg, black and white TV, early on the coldest morning the highveld could ever produce.

Ag ja well no fine ek se!

Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Saturday, August 14, 2004 at 17:39:50 (UTC)

Bill et al

Wallabies 27 Boks 22...

Don't forget, Georgie is one of us!!!

cheers

John Milton


John Milton [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth Western Australia, Australia
Saturday, August 14, 2004 at 17:22:55 (UTC)

Glen,
Obviously you are not a true Kitwe boy then :)

Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Saturday, August 14, 2004 at 17:16:08 (UTC)

Linda - first sausages and gunky white stuff and now "gonadal steroids" ! Oh Boy . . . . . .
I'm going to take "Enzyte" (anyone who watches Court TV in the US knows all about Enzyte) in case we ever run into each other at some GNR get together. Something tells me that you are going to be the most popular girl at the party and I want to make sure I "measure up" to your expectations !

Glen Drake [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
California, United States
Saturday, August 14, 2004 at 16:19:11 (UTC)

With apologies to Dan Quayle.
Southern Africa is part of Africa, it is an island in Africa, it is here, it is Africa, & will always be a part of all the present & past citizens of Africa!
Boks 40 Kiwis 26
Ek se! – Die Bokke is terug!!!
Sheep Shearing 1500hrs next Saturday at ABSA Stadium Durban!!
Go Bokke!


Bill Hunt [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Widenham, Natal, South Africa
Saturday, August 14, 2004 at 16:00:18 (UTC)

62, 827 Seth Efricans full of gonad steroids watched the Boks convincingly beat the All Blacks 40 - 26 at Ellis Park. The All Blacks started off with a 10 point lead, the Boks then pulled ahead. The game went neck to neck until the second half when the Boks decisively pulled ahead. Viva amaBokoBoko. The All Blacks played a good game like the great sportsmen they are.

Next weeks we flatten the Aussies in Durbs!

Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Saturday, August 14, 2004 at 15:17:23 (UTC)

Ha! Ha! Ha! I did just ask that question on ask.com and it came back with multiple links. And you all thought I made it up. Okay, I'm going to do some housework before I get ex-communicationed from my beloved GNR.

Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Saturday, August 14, 2004 at 14:27:00 (UTC)

Finally .. a pat on the back for something useful. grin..

Actually, I thought I would pass this on to y'all as it is a very useful search engine. I'm sure you are already aware of this one, Craig, but it is www.ask.com. It used to be askjeeves.com, but is the same website. You just ask your question and it provides very comprehensive info and links for just about anything you want to know about. I asked, "What is Northern Rhodesia?" and it gave me all sorts of links, including any number of things you can bid on. Are you listening, Artie?? I was really pleased to see how many times the GNR was referenced as a link. Take a look.

Perhaps I should ask, "What are gonadal steroids?" since nobody appreciated my joke. grin. But then again, I would imagine most of you blokes just winced.

Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Saturday, August 14, 2004 at 14:23:02 (UTC)

Peter
It was decimalised in 1969 if my memory is correct.

Linda
What an interesting site. It you replace zambia with swaziland in the address you can view the 1974 one Lilangeni notes with 10 princesses in reed dance undress on the back. Swaziland must be the only country in the world that has naked women on its notes.

Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Saturday, August 14, 2004 at 12:22:53 (UTC)

Northerners...

I was looking at those bank notes and noticed the 1964 Bank of Zambia issued Pound notes.

When did they change to Kwachas? I thought the same time as independence but obviously not.

Also, there is a grave error on that map page - Broken Hill is only referred to as a "significant" town and not as the centre of the universe, tsk, tsk....

Peter Dielissen [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
Saturday, August 14, 2004 at 12:06:55 (UTC)

Hi Chris
You must mean 4.00 hrs on Sunday morning not Saturday otherwise you would be watching the game before it is played. Now I know Yankee technology is very advanced but...?

I said High Noon GMT which is 14.00 RSA. This is for the warm up. The actual game starts at 15.00 RSA. I think Hawaii is 10 hours behind GMT so that makes 12 hours between RSA and the Big Island. So you should get it at 3.00 hrs. Hilo time. Whatever, enjoy!

As Radio Lusaka said, "It is 12 o'clock Greenwich. Meantime here is the news!

Cheers - Doug

Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Saturday, August 14, 2004 at 12:05:12 (UTC)

Hi Linda,

Interesting site, but don't let Arthur see the map!!

Mike

Mike Wilson [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Dawlish, Devon, United Kingdom
Saturday, August 14, 2004 at 08:57:41 (UTC)

Linda,

Great link! I will add it to the links page when I next update it.


Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Saturday, August 14, 2004 at 02:50:59 (UTC)

I don't know if anyone has posted this before, but I found an interesting site that has paper money you can view. It shows the old currency and new currency in Northern Rhodesia/Zambia. You just click on the currency name and it displays.

Here is the link to type in. This is not a live link.

http://aes.iupui.edu/rwise/countries/zambia.html

Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Saturday, August 14, 2004 at 00:16:47 (UTC)

Doug,

Hi noon? We have it scheduled live at 0400 Saturday, live, which would be 1600 at Ellis Park? One of us is confused??

I cannot blame you for predicting a Springbuck (sic) victory - 6,000ft and 80,000 rockspiders!. But my rugby heart tells me the Blecks will do it - by a margin of 10 points



Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Friday, August 13, 2004 at 23:40:43 (UTC)

Northerners:

I was looking through the web addresses links after Craig reminded us that there really are other parts of this website (yes, Dad..) No seriously, take a look at Mik Wright's website. (No, I did not spell it wrong) It is such a cool website and he and his wife look like really way out, cool folks. Mik if you are reading this, your custome made shoes are AWESOME!! It felt like stepping back into the '60s again. The colours and designs are groovy. I wish I had the Kwacha to buy a pair. You look like you have a really interesting life. You are obviously not living in a concrete jungle like the rest of us over here in the States. More power to you!

And now onto something I read in a medical publication today that has quite alarmed me. Did you know that 90% of migraines in women are as a result of "gonadal steroids?" Now, I'm reading this and thinking to myself, "Do you 'spose the stupid blokes took the tablet kind or went for the direct application with a syringe straight into their gonads?" I would imagine it also causes excessive bulging of the eyes in certain women, although the data on that is inconclusive. Ha! Ha! Okay, I'm a bad girl and I'm going to sit in the corner.. again.

Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Friday, August 13, 2004 at 22:22:40 (UTC)

Chris
High noon GMT tomorrow Boks will beat the All Blacks in Joburg!

Did you see the Olympic opening ceremony. It was excellent!

Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Friday, August 13, 2004 at 21:28:57 (UTC)

Mike,

You are forgiven.

I have to take a large part of the blame for the fact that stuff is buried on this site. We have been without a site search engine for far too long, and if we had one you would find that just about every topic under the sun with respect to NR has been discussed at some point. That's not to say that it can't be discussed again, but if we had search facilities you'd have the benefit of reading the old discussions as well.


Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Friday, August 13, 2004 at 19:40:00 (UTC)

Looking for Information on Trevor George and Family

The following message is posted on behalf of non-member Barbara George. Please contact her directly as described below if you can help her. Thanks.

If you would, please post a request for information regarding our relative, Trevor George, born 1903 in Wales, came from South Africa, then to Broken Hill Mines where he worked as a fitter/turner during the 1950s. Your help would be appreciated. Barbara also mentioned that Trevor worked for Anglo American.

If you can help Barbara, please contact her directly at sundwana2@hotmail.com. Thanks very much.


Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Friday, August 13, 2004 at 19:35:18 (UTC)

Craig,
In my defence, I'm a new boy and don't know my way around yet. Thanks for the tip,
Mike

Mike Edwards [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Billesdon, Leicestershire, United Kingdom
Friday, August 13, 2004 at 19:24:44 (UTC)

Hammarskjold Plane Crash

Doesn't anyone look at other parts of this site? If you look in the "General Interest" section of the links page, you'll see a link to an article entitled "Letters Say Hammarskjold Death Western Plot". We are omniscient here at the GNR.


Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Friday, August 13, 2004 at 17:39:02 (UTC)


Hi Esther,

I knew your parents Alf and (to a lesser extent) Eva. My wife Audrey was a member of the parachute club and was the first woman to jump in NR so you may remember her. Didn't one of your sisters (or perhaps you) hold the World Record for depth in a free dive in the Bahamas?
What year was it that the Spenglers were killed? I confess that I have forgotten the tragedy.

Mike



Mike Wilson [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Dawlish, Devon, United Kingdom
Friday, August 13, 2004 at 12:45:32 (UTC)

Mike Edwards - no, you didn't imagine the 'plane crash (near 'Dola Hill outside Ndola ...

Re: DAG HAMMARSKJOLD

see some info at:

http://www.un.org/Overview/SG/sg2bio.html

and

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/september/18/newsid_3790000/3790079.stm

The crash occurred on 18 September 1961

Alan Tomlinson [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Randburg, Gauteng, South Africa
Friday, August 13, 2004 at 10:29:53 (UTC)

Does anyone remember a plane crash between Kitwe nad Ndola where a Un head was killed, I think Dag Hammerschold? It was probably about 1961.
I have mentioned this to a few friends and nobody has seem to have heard of it?
Is it just my imagination? Please somebody tell me this is not so.
Also does anybody know the whereabouts of Geoff Abrahams?

Mike
ps Thanks for the message Linda.

Mike Edwards [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Billesdon, Leicestershire, United Kingdom
Friday, August 13, 2004 at 09:51:17 (UTC)

Esther
I would consider the good old days as in NR and maybe three or four years into Zam.

Nicky Kontou [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Friday, August 13, 2004 at 09:32:59 (UTC)

Alan,
Mr Moore taught us french with an irish accent. The girls in my class called him "Itchy" because he always had chalk marks around his crotch. The deputy head was Mr Power when I left. Apart from being a sadist Mr Finch did teach us life saving which I have had use of in later years. I also heard a rumour that he dissapeared with the school Land Rover. In english we had Mr Trevor Moore an other irishman who I got on well with, we sometimes ran in to each other in the Top Hat bar on St. Patricks rd. down below the post office. The only thing I remember from Mr Sharpe´s science class is the formula for converting Centigrade to Fahrenheit. C upon 5 =F-32 upon 9.
I just came back from London where I met Chris Sysum who contacted me through tis cite. We had several beers and its strange how by talking to him I start remembering things long forgotten.
Regards
HM

Hans Mattsson [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Uppsala, Sweden
Friday, August 13, 2004 at 08:21:24 (UTC)

The recent posts about Ndola's LHS and KSS brought back memories ....

Teachers at Llewellyn High / Kansenji Secondary School - Ndola
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I remember (Errol??) Finch, the boys PT teacher well …. He regularly lined us up in the change room, after swimming, for a bit of “machine-gun practice. I can’t recall doing anything to deserve this punishment, but I am sure I must have done …..

And the girls PT teacher was Ms. Schroeder I think. She had a habit of just bursting into the boys change rooms while we were in various states of undress.

After Jack Crawford left (I think he went as Head of a larney Natal school – Hilton or Michaelhouse??) a Mr Rowe became Headmaster. And at the time a Mr Thomson was Deputy Head.

I recall in one of my classes some wit had carefully etched into the solid wooden desk-top the words: “Thompson is a DEPUTY DAWG” …… no doubt inspired by the cartoon theme (was it Huckleberry Hound?) that was on ZTV at the time.

My French teacher was a Mr Moore (nicknamed “stinky” I think), and the art teacher was Mrs Kloppers – I knew her son David, and daughter Sylvia (??).

My maths teachers was a Mr Powell. I seem to recall him being hit on the bridge of his nose by a well-thrown straw “boater” that we had to wear – it was taken from an unfortunate classmate, and thrown discus-like across an upper-level classroom, only to sail out the open window into Powell who was walking below on the ground floor.

I’m sure some others will come to mind (if it is not too atrophied).


Alan Tomlinson [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Randburg, Gauteng, South Africa
Friday, August 13, 2004 at 04:57:08 (UTC)

Yes there were the good old days – but there were also the terrible old days that nobody talks about.

I had an absolutely wonderful brother-in-law David Spengler, who was separated from his wife – my sister.
Anyway he was born and brought up in Salisbury. As an adult he bought a copper mine in Lusaka where is worked on his small simple farm with his common-law wife and her 6 year old daughter. His African staff loved this man they called “my Father” as he spoke to them in their own language and treated them with love and respect. He visited his aged parents often over the border in Gwelo. One fateful Saturday David, his wife and daughter together with their foreman went shopping in town. Whist he was gone Terrorists came into the farm – made the staff go around the back of the house and lay on their stomachs for the hours while David was away. It was hours before they returned and the staff were not permitted to move but had to soil themselves where they lay. David drove up to the house and before opening the door found them surrounded by dozens of armed men who kicked the door and said “We have been waiting for you”. They – David, wife and daughter and the foreman were all beaten and bayoneted to death and God only knows what torture they endured before their deaths. After that – the men were allowed to move and were told this is the warning to all the white men not to stay in this Country. One faithful man ran into town to get the authorities – David was found with his hands stiff in a boxing position. He was not to know that he and many others were on death lists. When these death lists of white farmers were found – other members of my family were named and marked for extinction and then left Zambia. We must remember - Yes there were the good old days – but there were also the terrible old days that nobody talks about.


Esther Pettersson [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Australia
Friday, August 13, 2004 at 03:32:13 (UTC)

Mike Edwards:

Whatever anyone tries to tell you about me, please don't believe it. I never did it.. honest! :)

Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Friday, August 13, 2004 at 02:42:50 (UTC)

Looking for Christopher Kamanga

The following message is posted on behalf of non-member Marcia Sau Villanueva. Please contact her directly as described below if you can help her. Thanks.

My name is Marcia Sau; I am from Chile. I am looking for Christopher Kamanga who apparently used to work for Zambia Railways in Kabwe. If anyone has any information about Mr. Kamanga's whereabouts, please e-mail me. Thank-you very much.

If you can help Marcia, please contact her directly at marciasau@yahoo.com. Thanks very much.

Looking for O.J. Hart

The following message is posted on behalf of non-member Ira Navako. Please contact him/her directly as described below if you can help her. Thanks.

Hi all, I'd like to get some information about O.J. Hart, because I happen to posses her diary of the year 1953. All I know is that she lived in Lusaka, N. Rhodesia, and her P.O. Box is 208. Some of the mentioned people in the diary are: Joan Silman (b. 15 April), John Bright (b. 3 Dec.). Also, Mrs. Shatton, Boh Tidaler and Peter Richard, if I made out the handwriting correctly. Derek, Doris, May, Tony, Anthony and Leslie, even though that isn't much help. Anybody who has anything to tell me please email me at thoughtless_ise@hotmail.com Thank you all. Bye bye!"

If you can help Ira, please contact him/her directly at thoughtless_ise@hotmail.com. Thanks very much.


Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Thursday, August 12, 2004 at 21:21:24 (UTC)

For those that have not yet done so I suggest you read "Our Kitwe Umfasi in Texas" by Linda Dore on the Northern Tales page. For us ex Kitweites it brings back great memories with all the names I had long fogotten (or thought I had).
Thanks Linda, great piece.
Mike

Mike Edwards [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Billesdon, Leicestershire, United Kingdom
Thursday, August 12, 2004 at 20:48:25 (UTC)

CraigI suppose the Rabbit?...I have to laugh, the url came from the old fossils that were in the army with me, most of them techies with nothing better to do......giggles
Thanks for the other site.......when I see articles like that I think of the Dodo bird..........

Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Thursday, August 12, 2004 at 16:05:30 (UTC)

Hi Robert. Thanks for the plug!

I have a selection of slides of Ndola (including Monkey Fountain). I've been sending them to Robert privately because I don't think that I can reduce them sufficiently to send them to Arthur. My son, Stephen is doing the scanning and putting onto disc for me; his original intention was to have put them on his web page.

The others will be coming, Robert....when he has time. I do a little judicious nagging now and again but as he's down in Cambridge it's at one remove.

Cheers all'

Rachel

Rachel Mounsey [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Leeds, United Kingdom
Thursday, August 12, 2004 at 14:48:06 (UTC)

The picture is of Rhodwins, though some of the things missing are, the Foofie Slide, Raft in the middle, the donkeys and the big black tyre. I would think unlike most of us the tyre will be deflated by now.

Nicky.

Nicky Kontou [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Thursday, August 12, 2004 at 13:13:05 (UTC)

Lest we forget:

http://www.nytimes.com/library/national/science/aids/aids-index.html

Robert Worrill [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Christchurch, New Zealand
Thursday, August 12, 2004 at 13:01:17 (UTC)

Saw this article on news24.com today .....
------------------------------------

Zambia: Sex-tourism booms
12/08/2004 14:36 - (SA)

By Wilfred Zulu

Lusaka - Sex-tourism has escalated in the town of Livingstone on Zambia's southern border.

The town, which is situated near the world-famous Victoria Falls along the Zambezi River, has experienced a tourism boom as tourists shy away from neighbouring Zimbabwe following the country's violent land reform programme.

According to Zambia's Central Statistics Office, sex-tourism in Livingstone has risen from 16% in 2001 to 42% today.

The incidence of HIV/Aids in the area has also risen from 17% in 2000 to 30%.

The rapid spread of the disease has prompted one traditional leader to start promoting the use of condoms.

"It wouldn't be good for tourists to go back to their countries with the AIDS virus," says senior chief Mukuni of the Toka-Leya people in Livingstone.

"They should be able to go home and speak well of Zambia, not say 'I got AIDS from Zambia'."

Edited by Andrea Botha


Alan Tomlinson [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Randburg, Gauteng, South Africa
Thursday, August 12, 2004 at 12:51:07 (UTC)

Annette Margaret McReath (née Townsend)

I rode in your sports car once. MAYBE.

Robert Worrill [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Christchurch, New Zealand
Thursday, August 12, 2004 at 08:33:16 (UTC)

Hi there, is there any ex-Lusaka people that are still on the GNR that know the whereabouts of Geoff Biggs or Barry Brown, if there is I would appreciate their addresses or email addresses so that I may make contact with them again?

Annette Margaret McReath (née Townsend) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Randburg, Gauteng, South Africa
Thursday, August 12, 2004 at 05:22:24 (UTC)

Donald Sydney

Re: Old steam traction engine.

Ndola members, please tell me I'm not quite brain dead, but wasn't there an old steam traction engine in the childrens park on St Georges Road. I think I can rember one there near the swings. I can see one in my mind that was painted red, green and black and I'm sure it was in the Ndola park.

There certainly was and Rachel Mounsey has a good picture of it with her boy playing on it.

I remember it well.

Robert Worrill [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Christchurch, New Zealand
Thursday, August 12, 2004 at 03:22:02 (UTC)

Bill Hunt

Do you have Mr Crawford's email addy?

Robert Worrill [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Christchurch, New Zealand
Thursday, August 12, 2004 at 03:18:07 (UTC)

Donald Sydney

His name was Mr Finch, he used to draw a diagram on the blackboard in coloured chalks showing how rear ends would look after the treatment. He also used to make people write out the longest Psalm in the bible (25?), the whole class would have to pitch in to do it overnight. He later became the Deputy Head after Mr Lobshire (sp). Imagine how Mr Finch would go down thse days with all the pampering of young people.

Mr Finch's speciality was the "machine gun", do you remember that? Where a whole class would be punished at once, mostly for unruliness in the showers.

Robert Worrill [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Christchurch, New Zealand
Thursday, August 12, 2004 at 03:15:56 (UTC)

Ali,

Thanks for that; quite amusing! Who do I sue for the loss of my virginity while trying to build his computer?

A link you may be interested in that was sent to me by a friend a couple of weeks ago: The Trade in Wild Animals: A Serious Problem.

Africar

Another link sent to me by the same friend: Anyone ever heard of the Africar?


Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Thursday, August 12, 2004 at 02:01:23 (UTC)

Craig... almost forgot don't what ever you do, forget to read the fine print........

Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Thursday, August 12, 2004 at 00:26:49 (UTC)

Craig........
Since you have been having "HUGE" problems with your computer...I have found something that may help you or any other Northerner .......
Ali
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ashen1/ashen/menu/build/intro.htm

Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Thursday, August 12, 2004 at 00:24:55 (UTC)

Jack Crawford!!

I remember Mr Crawford very well and at 57 my bum still remembers his prowess with the cane! I was sent to his office a number of times, but he only once caught me smoking behind the seating stand at the bottom of the field. It was for answering back that I was sent to him for more than anything. Can any one remember the gym teacher who was there when the swiming pool was built? He had a habit of using his takkie to sort the boys out. He also made us swim in our underpants if we forgot our costume.


Donald Sydney [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Bristol, Avon, United Kingdom
Wednesday, August 11, 2004 at 20:16:09 (UTC)

To all:

To admit that the Ocsar story was really a load of old bull, albeit a load of bull eland about sums this one up. Sorry Geoff and others.



David Housden [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Brisbane, Australia
Wednesday, August 11, 2004 at 20:13:19 (UTC)

Ndola Members
How many folk remember High School headmaster Jack Crawford?
He lives in Durban & I chat to him quite frequently.
He would be pleased to hear from his past pupils.
I'm sure many will remember his prowess with the cane!
He was vice principle at Mufulira High prior to his service at Ndola.
best regards

Bill Hunt [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Widenham, Natal, South Africa
Wednesday, August 11, 2004 at 19:34:26 (UTC)

Heather,
Great! I will more than likely attend.

Farmers and economists,
I read in business report that South African agricultural services group Afgri is gearing up for a major expansion of its Zambian operations and has sold 24% of its Zambian subsidiary to a team of Zambian businessmen for R9.6 million (circa US$1.5 million).

Afgri entered Zambia three years ago by buying up 2 cotton gins and building up a successful cotton business with smallholders in the Eastern province. The gins are running at full capacity of 240, 000 bales.

Afgri also sells agricultural equipment and recently fulfilled a US$4.5 million contract to supply John Deere equipment, the largest such contract in sub-Saharan Africa.

With the Zambian maize harvest exceeding 1 million tons last season it provides an opportunity to enter the international grain market. Agri is going to facilitate this and provide grain storage facilities. Agriculture now accounts for 22% of Zambia’s GDP so things are improving. Previously the mines used to provide circa 92% of GDP so the economy is diversifying.

Northerners
That reminds me that the nickname of ‘Frazers and Chalmers’ was ‘Farmers and Chancers’. LTA construction was ‘Let’s Try Again’. In RSA the BMW cars are so popular the call them ‘Black Man’s Wheels’.

Doug W
Maybe one day!

Cheers - Doug




Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Wednesday, August 11, 2004 at 19:26:36 (UTC)

Old steam traction engine.

Ndola members, please tell me I'm not quite brain dead, but wasn't there an old steam traction engine in the childrens park on St Georges Road. I think I can rember one there near the swings. I can see one in my mind that was painted red, green and black and I'm sure it was in the Ndola park.
Can anyone remember the big fire in North Rise when they started to tar the roads? An old lorrys flat bed was put up on bricks and a number of tar drums were placed on the flat bed. A very hot fire was lit under the lot, but no one removed the caps from the 44gal drums. Some of the drums must of shot 50/60 feet into the air, others shot into people's gardens. It was on a patch of open ground on the junction of Lower Nyassa Road and Croydon or Brockley Road. I think there was a very large tree on a ant hill on the ground.

Donald Sydney [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Bristol, Avon, United Kingdom
Wednesday, August 11, 2004 at 18:09:04 (UTC)

Hi David Housden

sorry for spelling mistake, it was an operators error. Age is taking it's toll. Regards Anja (Bryan's private secretary, chief bottle washer, cook etc.)

Bryan Baker [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Western Australia, Australia
Wednesday, August 11, 2004 at 14:18:34 (UTC)

David Houston

I bow to your superior tutoring. Theo was a young eland bull I met during my honeymoon trip to Melsetter in 1966. Strange how nuptials can distort the reality. I am now a bit worried about Monkey Fountain/ Rodwins. Anyway for me its Chossa chala and save for another visit.

Heather

Could you ask Rita Dupreez, when you see her next time, if it was Monkey Fountain or Rodwins our group used to go for picnic, please.

Regards Bryan

Bryan Baker [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Western Australia, Australia
Wednesday, August 11, 2004 at 14:12:22 (UTC)

Pappy,
You’re seldom wrong – but this time you’re right. There was an old steam traction engine near the 29-mile mark on the Mulungushi Road from Broken Hill. It lay, rusting in the veldt, about 100 yards off the road. In the late ‘60s it was moved to BH, painted garish colours, and placed in Clayton Park as playground furniture for local kids.
I’ve always had a fascination for that old steam traction engine, and often stopped there to look at it. It probably belonged to a firm of wood contractors – Moore and Shields – who had a contract (circa 1918) to supply Broken Hill mine with all the firewood requirements. Shields later secured the contract to transport all the heavy machinery and supplies from Broken Hill to Mulungushi for the construction of the Hydro-Electric Scheme at Mulungushi. This scheme was officially opened by the then Prince of Wales (Edward V111) in 1925. The Traction Engines used by Shields belonged to the R.B.H .D Co., and had originally been used to open the Sable Antelope mine from Kalomo, when that was the railhead.

Arthur,
Thanks for your kind consideration.
Regards
CJ


Charles Cartmill [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stellenridge, Cape Town, South Africa
Wednesday, August 11, 2004 at 13:46:37 (UTC)

Thank goodness it's not me! I also thought the photo of Monkey Fountain was, infact, Rhodwins. I didn't know anyone else thought that so I was not about to appear gormless and memory challenged in front of you lot. Especially not Housden, who would most certainly go for the throat... grin. David, I am thoroughly enjoying reacquainting myself with long forgotten words and phrases from the Fanagalo Dictionary Grammar and Phrase Book recently received from you. I have been talking to people at work and they are fascinated. Thanks a lot, mate.

Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Wednesday, August 11, 2004 at 11:45:26 (UTC)

My memory recalls Oscar as being a Maribou Stork of a dirty white hue. He was the ugliest and nastiest bird, and terrorised children and picnicers alike.

Geoff Paynter

I concur.

I’m afraid in support of my claim I’ll also have to discredit the poster of the pictures as they also label a picture of a lake with small hill on it as being the lake at Money Fountain. I’ve had correspondence from others about this picture and the concessus is that it is a picture of Rhodwins.

David Housden

I think so too.

Robert Worrill [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Christchurch, New Zealand
Wednesday, August 11, 2004 at 11:18:29 (UTC)

Geoff Paynter

Nice to hear from you, a pity it’s on such a contentious issue. The two people who could offer conclusive evidence on the name of the ground hornbill are both unfortunately dead, my father and Arthur Schuker. As you may remember my father was involved with the zoo for years, maybe it’s a good job he’s no longer with us as I’m sure he’d be saddened to hear your news of it’s demise. I do however have his photo albums and there is indeed a picture of the bird in question with the by-line “Oscar”. I’m afraid in support of my claim I’ll also have to discredit the poster of the pictures as they also label a picture of a lake with small hill on it as being the lake at Money Fountain. I’ve had correspondence from others about this picture and the concessus is that it is a picture of Rhodwins. Apparently there was a rope slide from that hill that dumped you in the lake.
The rate at which we are all aging will ensure that trivial arguments such as this will probably multiply by a factor which I’m sure our old maths teacher could quantify. I for one would prefer to skip these disagreements as often as I used to skip the maths classes, however for the meanwhile may the debate continue.

Regards
David Housden


David Housden [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Brisbane, Australia
Wednesday, August 11, 2004 at 09:55:40 (UTC)

Hooray Heather!

Will start making plans now.


Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Wednesday, August 11, 2004 at 09:05:19 (UTC)

A very big thank you to everyone for their wonderful selection of photographs, and to you Arthur, for all your hard work in getting them posted.

June Dobson (née Jocks) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Christchurch, Canterbury, New Zealand
Wednesday, August 11, 2004 at 08:31:29 (UTC)

Take Note Of This Date !!


Sinazongwe or Siavonga Soiree


At last, I have set the date for the next Reunion in Zambia


Friday 3 June to Monday 6 June 2005


However, I have not yet finalised the venue. This will be either Sinazongwe or Siavonga, depending on numbers.

If it is to be in Sinazongwe, it will be on board the houseboat and if it is in Siavonga, it will be at Lake Safari Lodge. Further information regarding costs, logistics etc to follow in due course.

However, if you are thinking of attending, please contact me


Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Wednesday, August 11, 2004 at 08:09:18 (UTC)

Hi David,

My memory recalls Oscar as being a Maribou Stork of a dirty white hue. He was the ugliest and nastiest bird, and terrorised children and picnicers alike. The Ground Hornbill appears to have been another different bird.
On a sad note, when we visited Ndola in September 2002, we were still trying to find Monkey Fountain when we realised that the overgrown jungle we were parked in had in fact been the open grassed area. We recognised the little stream and one or two of the large trees, but the rest of the site was unrecognisable, and just a few bricks and foundations remained where the zoo had been.


Geoff Paynter [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Johannesburg, Gauteng, South Africa
Wednesday, August 11, 2004 at 07:47:42 (UTC)

Artie:

Please check your email for a message from me.

Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Wednesday, August 11, 2004 at 04:55:36 (UTC)

Arthur,
many thanks for the scan of the Ndola Airport picture - well done you for persuading the seller to let you have it... Yes I must brush up my ebay sniping skills...
Regards
Barry

Barry Robbins [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Fordingbridge, Hampshire, United Kingdom
Tuesday, August 10, 2004 at 23:49:00 (UTC)

Doug G - I think Dave Cooper should stop playing silly buggers and get back on GNR . Amsterdam isn't that great ........

Have you ever thought of publishing your own tales and writings of Africa ? You have a great facility with words and descriptions that shouldn't be wasted

Doug Waybush [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Maryland, USA, and London, England
Tuesday, August 10, 2004 at 23:32:43 (UTC)

Recent Site Updates:

August 10th, 2004:
  • Added a map of Livingstone to the maps page.
  • Added a new section to the maps page for maps of other cities and countries of interest to people from Northern Rhodesia and/or Zambia. The first two maps in this section are maps of Salisbury, Rhodesia, and Moçambique. Thanks very much to Carole Evans (née Bruce) for donating these three (including the map of Livingstone) new maps to the GNR.


Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Tuesday, August 10, 2004 at 20:13:36 (UTC)

Arthur
Northerners it is! I wonder how old van der Blixem is getting on?

Definitely as a King you are allowed as many wives as you want. The only problem I can see is getting all those English maidens to dance for you so you can make a good selection.

Cheers - Doug

Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Tuesday, August 10, 2004 at 17:49:07 (UTC)

Heather

Thanks for sharing your photos and stories with us. They really do tug at the old heart strings.

Arthur

Wow! You have upgraded BH! Even if it is only for this year - that must have been painful for you :) xx

I remember Noah - the American. He wasn't sooo bad! At least he kept me company when Kevin didn't :) Luv you too Kevin xx



Jacqui Milward (née Lackenby) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
London, England
Tuesday, August 10, 2004 at 17:17:12 (UTC)

Hi Heather,

thank you very much for the great pictures from a beautiful country. We do believe that Zambia has the potential to be the Gem of Africa. It gave me (Bryan) the best days of my childhood. Innumerable fond memories are given back with your photos and the GNR site since.

Bryan

Arthur,

we have a write up about Lake Kashiba, by W. P. Small, out of one of my N.S.C.A. Journals. I was a member of the Naturalist Society of Central Africa and we have done many excursions throughout Zambia. As soon as I have my slides organised I'll send the copy of the article and associated pictures.

Bryan



Bryan Baker [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Western Australia, Australia
Tuesday, August 10, 2004 at 13:42:50 (UTC)

A small correction to the recently posted picture of the Ground Hornbill at Monkey Fountain. His name was in fact "Oscar".

Dave Housden,
Committee member Zambian Zoological Society late ‘60’s


David Housden [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Brisbane, Australia
Tuesday, August 10, 2004 at 12:16:23 (UTC)

Heather -

Absolutely splendid photo's again, and the spirit level's fine!!!

Thanks again for making me smile at seeing Zambia as it should be seen if I can't be there in person, in spirit I certainly am!

Regards to all
Kris


Kristien E. Massie (née Mostert, formerly Van Woenssel) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
United Kingdom
Tuesday, August 10, 2004 at 09:52:15 (UTC)

Northerners....

By the way - more on skulls....

I always wear a 10 skull silver bracelet, a silver 8 skull ring and a silver skull pendant as Craig can tell you.

No sinister motive. Just a reminder to myself to enjoy life while I can!!!

I also wear one of my 15 Betty Boop ties whenever I wear a tie.

I think I am quite normal :)!

Peter Dielissen [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
Tuesday, August 10, 2004 at 08:07:34 (UTC)

Geoff Clements,

Hi Geoff. What a surprise to see your posting with the Nchanga Rugby Club's 1971 Far East Tour Souvenir Programme. We were both on that tour as well as a couple of others, Ian Pierce and Tommy Laird, who are now living in Perth. However there is no "profile" or "contact" for you with the message. Where are you and what are you up to?

All the best.


Keith Binns [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Tuesday, August 10, 2004 at 02:37:01 (UTC)

Marg de Lange:

I haven't even looked through all the photos being posted, but I just HAD to thank you for sending in the ones of Kitwe Primary School and Helen Kaunda. What a fabulous trip down memory lane for me!! They look somewhat different than when I was there in the 60's but what memories they evoke. Contrary to most kids, I actually loved school. Rumour has it that I started my first business at Kitwe Primary School. I was Head Prefect in Std 5, and, so the allegation goes, had a side business.. making kids give me their lunch money in exchange for not turning them in for being late when I was on late patrol. Or so Chris Cotton claims!! I don't remember that at all and he still has to prove it to me... grin. I do admit to making poor old Mrs. Silbereisen's life a misery in Std. 5, but then she was such an old battle axe that I couldn't help myself. When she read my love note to Arthur Fleishman out aloud to the whole class, that was an open declaration of war!

Great photos, and great walk down memory lane. Thanks!

Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Tuesday, August 10, 2004 at 00:05:19 (UTC)

Heather

Why have you just posted the sunset shots you took in Stockport last year?

This "new" camera of yours -- Craig didn't sell it to you did he? Thought so. Bet he didn't tell you the spirit level in that one's broken too. He's being trying for ages to offload it on e-Bay, no suckers took the bait though.

Click for image. Click for image.

Here's a couple of shots Craig took of me last year with your "new" camera just after I caught a tiger.

See what I mean?

Then maybe not.

You just made me very homesick again.

Frank Yoxall

You're in for it, Sue Coughlan and Ali Key will now bombard your e-mail box with dozens of sunset shots. Yawn. :-)

BTW

Click for image.

Here's the photo of Ndola Airport, with a level runway.

Barry Robbins

Too bad you didn't snag the Ndola Airport postcard yourself - you need to drop Peter Dielissen a line and he will give you the lowdown on successful and underhand ways of "sniping" on e-Bay.

I approached the seller and he kindly did the scan for me before he sent it off to his buyer.

Doug G & Peter D

Since neither of you have any idea how to spell Northerners a visit to the headmasters office is in order. Doug, the term "Northerners" was used by Dawie years before I appeared on the GNR scene. I just follow in the Founders shadow.

And Doug, since Craig bestowed the tag of King Arthur on moi, am I therefore entitled (as King of the GNR) to have more than one wife?

What's good enough for King Sobhusa is good enough for me, but where am I going to find any young, slim and attractive maidens on the GNR?

I think I'll just stick with the maidens and forget any extra wives.

Chris

In Zambia I saw myself no problems with the police, yeah Ndola Kevin got caught out but he probably deserved it. Going too slow.

Now Heather was able to travel around at 90+mph because she knew where all the speedtraps and roadblocks are. In the UK they have so many of these baladdy things they are just now used as another way of bolstering Tony's treasure chest.

When we stopped over to visit Kariba Dam there was a couple of blokes dangling a line baited with Kapenta into the lake from the wall, one of them was a police officer - I asked them what they were fishing for, Tiger was the reply and immediately I got an invite to come and join in. Here in the UK I probably would have got an expletive deleted.

Talking of tourists, I got chatting one afternoon with the Zambian staff at the bar in Nyala Lodge outside Livingstone where we stayed for a couple of days for the Livingstone Lark. That afternoon they were getting a little pissed off with a lecherous old bloke from the USA. (Jacqui Milward will remember him - after Kevin forgot all about her) I asked the Zambians who were the worst tourists they had to deal with, back came an immediate reply, "the Americans and the Dutch"

Ali

Yep, the fish eagle logo is mine, stamped onto every map I do for the GNR because some unscrupulous sites keep pinching my work. I also leave other clues hidden in the maps.

Johnny

What is a golph professional? Sounds a bit rude to me, or do you shoot them. Golphers I mean.

Linda et al

I have your e-mails and I will reply this week.

Well that's enough from me for another month, so here we go

Northerners !

Your photo contributors have been very busy.

Enjoy

Arthur

Hi Arthur and everyone on GNR

Here are some photos on Monkey Fountain from about mid 1960s.

Click for image. Click for image. Click for image. Click for image.

# 1 is the dam of Monkey Fountain; # 2 the one possibly nobody could avoid: Theo the Ground Hornbill, every visitor used to be accosted by him.; # 3 are the Egyptian geese in their enclosure.
The picture # 4 has nothing to do with Monkey Fountain but is a good example of the pink Jacaranda (Stereospermum kunthianum) which is indigenous to subtropical Africa. The photo is taken in the street nearest and parallel to the Ndola dambo.


Click for image.

This means I have to do some serious work. You lot you got me looking through mountains of slides.


Click for image. Click for image.

This is for discussion which side (Zim or Zam) the statue of Dr Livingston is. The photo # 1 is taken of the "Devils Cataract" from a point of the tourist path. In the background (if your eyesight is good) you can see Oom David. The photo # 2 we put in for mozi - it is the Victoria Falls spray from a viewpoint in Rhodesia April 1972.


These pictures are mainly because of Heather's fear of height she mentioned earlier on and also to add some different views from long .... time back. To be honest nearly 40 years now.

Click for image. Click for image. Click for image. Click for image. Click for image.

# 1 and # 2 are from a mountainous viewpoint before reaching the falls.

# 3 the Kalambo river with a village in the foreground in Zambia and another one across the river in Tanzania

# 4 the other side of the gorge in Tanzania

# 5 the water going over the edge of the falls

Click for image. Click for image. Click for image. Click for image. Click for image.

# 6 the top of the falls looking up the river

# 7 the full size of the falls

# 8 is left to right : Diane (who I married later that year) and friends Molly and Len Buckland

# 9 looking down from the ledge to the bottom of the gorge

# 10 a telephoto shot at the vegetation of the gorge. The Aloe veseyi which is endemic to the gorges. It is named after Mr Vesey Fitzgerald, who was an officer with the International Red Locust Control unit based in Abercorn, now Mbala.

To pre-warn you we have more to come, it's in the making.

Regards

Bryan and Anja

From the centre of the Universe, the home of Sir Roy Welensky and Boones Bar...

Click for image.

A 1954 first day cover of the Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasaland....

Peter Dielissen

OK Peter, as a 100th birthday present to BH I've upgraded your dorp to "Lead centre of the Universe" - for this year only - Arthur

Arthur these are some of the pictures that we took on our trip to Zambia last year.

Click for image. Click for image. Click for image. Click for image. Click for image. Click for image.

Click for image. Click for image. Click for image. Click for image. Click for image. Click for image.

Click for image. Click for image. Click for image. Click for image. Click for image. Click for image.

Click for image. Click for image. Click for image. Click for image.

I had put them on a CD and had written a little letter to attach and unfortunately when cleaning out a back pack that I use for going back and forth to work I found said CD and letter still in the envelope addressed to you. OOps am I getting old and forgetful or what.

Anyway if there is anything relevant or different you would like to post do so.

Take care

Marg de Lange

Marg - Thanks for these - the shots of Kitwe Primary brought back a lot of memories, sadly I didn't make it round there myself last October - next time maybe.

Click for image.

This one's of moi taken while I was a Kitwe Primary inmate, not sure of the year though.

The shots of the barracks - was this where the LDV's were based at the end of Fife Avenue? - on Dave Coopers c1962 Kitwe map it is descibed as the Territorial Defence Training Centre. My dad was involved there and I recall many a Saturday afternoon going along with him, usually I got the job of helping to clean the rifles up.

What road was Adriatic Court on? -- Arthur

I have attached some pages from the Nchanga Rugby Club tour sovenir program which I found recently.

Click for image. Click for image. Click for image. Click for image. Click for image.

Click for image. Click for image. Click for image. Click for image. Click for image.

Geoff Clements

Thanks to everyone !



Arthur Steevens [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stockport, United Kingdom
Monday, August 09, 2004 at 23:33:17 (UTC)

Peter

Thanks for Zambianizing and posting that gem. You were so lucky. All we ever found was the fossilized bones of the fantasaurus. We always said those hollow bones proved the dinosaur/bird connection but mostly our parents just said Voetsaak!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Monday, August 09, 2004 at 22:50:18 (UTC)

HEATHER, yet again you have posted superb photos on the message board, I try to show them to as many of my friends who are still able to take off and travel , (without having to run the gauntlet of disaproving schools, finding boarding kennels for cats and dog, ect), and at least one friend is planning to visit Zambia. I actually get the strangest feeling looking at photos of Zambia, it is still my "home" spiritually, and although I have been in Ireland for l3 years, it will never be "home", plus the trees all grow sideways as they are battered by the westerlies. Keep up the good work Heather, you are very much appreciated
! Megz

Meg Rybicki (formerly Margaret) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Mullanyduff, Co Leitrim, Ireland
Monday, August 09, 2004 at 22:19:13 (UTC)

Doug you brought back a lot of happy memories of Swaziland it was one of my favourite places and we returned time and time again and never had a bad experience there, and drove over all those routes you mentioned and my crowning glory there was when I beat the golph professional resident there on his own course happy days Johnny.

Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Monday, August 09, 2004 at 22:16:23 (UTC)

Heather...

Thank you for the photos!!!!!!! They are super.

I am back to work next Monday, arghhhh.

Northeners - BH skull:

In 1962 my brother Hans and dug up a skull under the mango tree near the dagga plant in our BH back yard. We always fancied ourselves to be budding scientists. This was not the first time we had found skulls in our back yard. Hans and I were very, very excited as this skull looked to be in pretty good shape except for some indentations on top of the skull. Once again, as we usually did, we dispatched the skull to the Smithsonian Institute in Washington. This was the reply we received:

Dear Peter and Hans:

Thank you for your latest submission to the Institute, labelled "Broken Hill - 93211-D, layer seven, under the mango tree, Hominid skull." We have given this specimen a careful and detailed examination, and regret to inform you that we disagree with your theory that it represents conclusive proof of the presence of Early Man in Broken Hill two million years ago.

Rather, it appears that what you have found is the head of a Barbie doll, the variety one of our staff, who has small children, believes to be "Malibu Barbie." It is evident that you have given a great deal of thought to the analysis of this specimen, and you may be quite certain that those of us who are familiar with your prior work in the field were loathe to come to contradiction with your findings. However, we do feel that there are a number of physical attributes of the specimen which might have tipped you off to its modern origin:
1. The material is moulded plastic. Ancient hominid remains are typically fossilized bone.
2. The cranial capacity of the specimen is approximately 9 cubic centimetres, well below the threshold of even the earliest identified proto-hominids.
3. The dentition pattern evident on the skull is more consistent with the common domesticated dog than it is with the ravenous man-eating Pliocene clams you speculate roamed the wetlands during that time.

This latter finding is certainly one of the most intriguing hypotheses you have submitted in your history with this institution, but the evidence seems to weigh rather heavily against it. Without going into too much detail, let us say that:
1. The specimen looks like the head of a Barbie doll that a dog has chewed on.
2. Clams don't have teeth.

It is with feelings tinged with melancholy that we must deny your request to have the specimen carbon dated. This is partially due to the heavy load our lab must bear in its normal operation, and partly due to carbon dating's notorious inaccuracy in fossils of recent geologic record. To the best of our knowledge, Barbie dolls were produced prior to 1962 AD and distributed by DH Patel in Broken Hill. Carbon dating is likely to produce wildly inaccurate results. Sadly, we must also deny your request that we approach the National Science Foundation Phylogeny Department with the concept of assigning your specimen the scientific name broken-hill-opithecus spiff-arino. Speaking personally, I, for one, fought tenaciously for the acceptance of your proposed taxonomy, but was ultimately voted down because the species name you selected was hyphenated, and didn't really sound like it might be Latin in origin.

However, we gladly accept your generous donation of this fascinating specimen to the museum. While it is undoubtedly not a Hominid fossil, it is, nonetheless, yet another riveting example of the great body of work you and your brother Hans seem to accumulate here so effortlessly. You should know that our Director has reserved a special shelf in his own office for the display of the specimens you have previously submitted to the Institute, and the entire staff speculates daily on what you will happen upon next in your digs at the site you have discovered in your backyard. We eagerly anticipate your trip to our nation's capital that you proposed in your last letter, and several of us are pressing the Director to pay for it. We are particularly interested in hearing you expand on you and your brother's theories surrounding the trans-positating illifitation of ferrous ions in a structural matrix that makes the excellent juvenile Tyrannosaurus rex femur you recently discovered take on the deceptive appearance of a rusty 9mm Sears Craftsman automotive crescent wrench.

Yours in science,

Harvey Rowe
Curator, Antiquities


Peter Dielissen [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
Monday, August 09, 2004 at 21:50:16 (UTC)

Sheba’s Breasts

In Swaziland, as one drives down the deadly dangerous Malagwane hill from Mbabane to Ezulwini, the Valley of Heaven, one can see on the right hand side a mountain that strongly resembles the breasts of a beautiful woman. This formation has always been known locally as Sheba’s breasts. (Sorry Johnny, but read on). These curious geological formations can be best observed outlined against the sunset, as one enjoys a sundowner Klippies and Coke (Glen) on the terrace of Malandela’s restaurant, among the pineapple plantations of the fertile Malkerns Valley.

To get there one must survive the deadly drive down the Malagwane Mountain, which is haunted by the ghosts of the many people who have died there. At 0.8 Swaziland has the highest allowable blood alcohol content for driving anywhere in the world. This probably adds to the danger and the fun. Overlooking the Valley of Heaven is the Execution Rock that can be best seen while swilling a pink gin on the terrace of Matenga lodge near the famous Matenga falls. About a hundred years ago people who were found guilty of witchcraft and / or murder were ordered to go the top of the mountain and jump off, to land, splat, on the rocks several hundred feet below. If the convict was not so brave, the king’s warriors with their spear points gave a little encouragement. Witchcraft is still very prevalent but now in these civilized days we hang the offenders by the neck until they are very dead. (In South Africa witchcraft is also very widespread but there is no death sentence).

One then turns off the magnificent new Mbabane to Manzini highway, onto the old road through Happy Valley where many 5-star hotels and casinos are situated. Next the Royal Swazi Sun is the famous Cuddle Puddle hot springs (Glen) where you must take (or find) your true love. You can enjoy a few choice South African wines to stop you overheating in the pool (Charles). Also Marula Cream for the ladies (Ali, Tina and Linda). Let’s leave BM out. She will splash all the water out when she bombs in. We can golf a quick 18 holes on the magnificent course (Chris maybe), taking a gallon cooler of Stoney’s ginger beer with a bottle of cane spirit tipped in to sustain us through our sporting exertions.

Then we carry on carefully driving along the road, past Quartermain’s Bar (if you can) and check the Happy Valley Hotel where you will find the famous ‘Why Not’ bar where everything and anything goes (Johnny). Here you will definitely find your true love if you missed out at the Cuddle Puddle. It is like Bangkok’s Patpong and Nana plaza and Soi Cowboy combined with Kilindini Road in Mombasa plus traditional Swazi dancing, go-go girls, disco and cinema screens playing the latest sports events all at once in one enormous bar room!

Stagger out from the Why Not, close one eye to try and locate your car. Drive east carefully keeping to the center of the road to dodge any wildlife (the animal variety) that might spring out of the long grass on the verges. We re-enter Ezulwini Valley. On the left is the Houses of Parliament where the members meet to democratically enact whatever laws the King in his wisdom may approve of.

Further along on the left is the Palace of the late and much beloved good King Sobhusa the second. It is a multi-million modern building built on the slope of a mountain overlooking the Valley of Heaven. Legend has it that the old King being a traditionalist preferred to sleep in a traditional grass igloo shaped hut in the grounds. He had over 100 wives and 600 children. I like to think of him waking up, stretching in the morning sun outside his hut, surveying his realm and happily saying, “It’s mine! It’s all mine!”

On the right hand of the road there is the turn off to the new King's main palace at Ludzidzini. Around both palaces are vast open areas of veldt where the numerous herds of his Majesty’s cattle graze. In this area later this month or in early September the Reed Dance (umHlanga) will take place. About 20,000 maidens will converge from all over the Kingdom to cut reeds to fence the IndlovuKazi’s (Elephant Lady) kraal. She is the mother of the King and rules together with him, which seems to be a more sensible arrangement than the British one. The culmination of the annual umHlanga is for the maidens to dance practically naked for the King to select his new wife. They wear only a small beaded apron maybe 4 inches square strategically placed in front, and some bright colored woolen pom-poms. Royal princesses will wear red feather in their hair as a status symbol. The girls are escorted by a few of the older warriors and also carry the long sharp knives that they used to cut the reeds from the riverside. It would take a very brave or stupid man to interfere with them. The present King MaSwati the third, has 11 wives so far but is still young so he will marry many more. Swazi maidens are much slimmer and more attractive than the Zulus and many have a light golden colored skin. My late Swazi wife was very undemocratic. She would never allow me to go to the reed dance or even watch it on TV. (Elias)

All this watching is hot and thirsty work so after leaving the reed dance we proceed to Malandela’s to enjoy our sundowner while watching the sun sink over Sheba’s Breasts. The Queen of Sheba was said to have been a mysterious African Queen from the region currently known as Ethiopia who seduced the wise King Solomon with her exotic blend of beauty, (achtung Gordon) wit and wealth. The famous author Rider-Haggard traveled through Swaziland as a secretary to Sir Theophilus Shepstone, just after the end of the Anglo-Boer war when the British formally adopted Swaziland as a protectorate territory. He settled in Newcastle in KwaZulu Natal where he wrote his famous stories. I am sure he based many of them, on his experiences in Swaziland.

His Grand-daughter Jutta Rudolf now lives in Swaziland and it is from her writings that I have obtained many of these facts.

Our journey has been less than 20 km. No wonder they call it the Valley of Heaven. Don’t you just love our Kingdom?

Bayete iNkosi! Long live his Majesty!



Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Monday, August 09, 2004 at 20:57:29 (UTC)

Heather writes:
"Anyway, all these discussions about statues, tourists etc - I do not expect people who are no longer living here (and I'm not pointing my finger at you, this is just a general comment and if the cap fits, one can wear it) to feel the same way that we do about the efforts that are being made to get Zambia's economy (especially tourism and agriculture) on track. We are all working very hard to make things happen and although we very often feel that with every two steps we take forward, we take one backwards, what is important is that one step that we do take forwards. For us, it is our survival instinct coming to the fore. And things are a hell of a lot better than they were during KK's day. We have turned a corner and all that is needed now is to ensure that we don't get into a spin and go back round again."

Sounds very encouraging Heather, and with the zim tourist business in trouble, zam have a great opportunity to fill the gap. It is the "little things" that can come back to haunt the industry though , e.g. that police roadblock you expereinced the other day, and our friendly Phiri's near Kafue (Lowdown May 2004). If that had happened to a foreign touron, the news will flash around the industry and cause potentially major setbacks.

The "big thing" of course, is that zam keep the pricing way down while they re-establish the industry.

Thanks for those photos - that bush is wonderful!


Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Monday, August 09, 2004 at 18:57:48 (UTC)

Jackie Wardell,

Visit www.isilwana.net and the photographs of the aftermath of the explosion that you see is Zambian Railways in Lusaka. This is definitely the incident that I can remember not something else that happened up the road.

Apart from that Jack, good to know that you are still around and posting.

However I did notice when the big list was available for a few days, Dave Tweedy's name wasn't there. You were with him last year in Kabwe, so please get him to register as a member. He is the one person I know that has hundreds of stories to tell about Broken Hill and if the people that knew him were honest, he probably would have been voted as the Mr. Broken Hill ( The most Sociable Person of ) 1968-78, despite the fact he was an engineer come turn coat Hospital Administrator.



David Hoyle [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Muscat, Oman
Monday, August 09, 2004 at 18:10:34 (UTC)

That picture of a land train brought back memories,there was one in the bush,out side Kabwe,near the dam ,I can`t remember the name of it,but it was a few miles out side Kabwe,there used to be a club house out there and all.
Howie Silk if you ever read the board,look through your photos of Vic Falls,I`m sure you will find the pictures of David Livingstone,in your collection.I know I am getting on, but if my memory serves me right there is the same statue out side the explorers club in London,and yes there is a statue of Livingstone in Glasgow,near the Glasgow Royal Infirmary,on the high street.

Pappy Papier [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Glasgow, United Kingdom
Monday, August 09, 2004 at 17:26:27 (UTC)

Heather,

I can only endorse Sues comments well done they great and I like Sue love the sunsets, I still believe that they are one of the most memorable things for my wife and I of our time in Zambia.

Well done and thank's

Frank.

Frank Yoxall [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Woking, Surrey, England, United Kingdom
Monday, August 09, 2004 at 16:06:10 (UTC)

Thank You Heather!
Fabulous pictures once again. Loved the sunset...

Sue Coughlan (née Forde) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, WA, Australia
Monday, August 09, 2004 at 15:25:23 (UTC)

Geoffrey Cochran, Vic Bekker, John Rankin, Lynne Webster
Best wishes on your birthday


Bryan Baker

Below is a photo of Chitukutuku taken in 2001 at Shiwa Ngandu. It is still there and I drove past it on Thursday but did not photograph it again.

Click for image.

Craig

I'm sure you will be pleased to know that in the days when most tourists went to Zimbabwe, Zambia did much to facilitate entry of these tourists into Zambia on a daily basis i.e. they were not required to get visas. Undoubtedly, more could have been done, but one must remember that we are still fighting what we call Second Republic mentalities i.e. the mentality from KK's day when every person was a spy and up to no-good. This is changing slowly, but as with any mindshift, it takes time. As an example, when I was on my way back from Shiwa yesterday, I was stopped at a police block and asked where I was coming from and where I was going to. I reminded the officer that this was now a free country and that he had no right to ask me that question. He then asked me to proceed.

As regards the statues etc at Livingstone. I was informed, some years ago, that there was, once upon a time, a statue of Livingstone on top of the War Memorial statue on the Zambian side of the Falls (the same statue that Hartley has a photo of). According to 'my informant', the statue was removed when they were blasting for the hydro-scheme and has never been returned. I have, since then, been trying to establish (by way of a photograph or some other form of documentation) that there was in fact a statue there and that it is not just a figment of someone's imagination. If I am able to do that, I will be able to take the matter further.

Anyway, all these discussions about statues, tourists etc - I do not expect people who are no longer living here (and I'm not pointing my finger at you, this is just a general comment and if the cap fits, one can wear it) to feel the same way that we do about the efforts that are being made to get Zambia's economy (especially tourism and agriculture) on track. We are all working very hard to make things happen and although we very often feel that with every two steps we take forward, we take one backwards, what is important is that one step that we do take forwards. For us, it is our survival instinct coming to the fore. And things are a hell of a lot better than they were during KK's day. We have turned a corner and all that is needed now is to ensure that we don't get into a spin and go back round again.

Hilton Williams

Broken Hill man was never housed in the museum at the falls. What was there was a model of Neanderthal man. This museum burnt down a few years ago, but has been rebuilt although I am ashamed to admit that I have not visited it since it was rebuilt.

Last year in August, after much hassle, I got permission to see Broken Hill Man at the Natural History Museum in London. I am probably the only person in Zambia today who has seen him as his usual place of residence is in an old box on a manky piece of foam in the Paleontology Department. Anyway, I put a K 10,000 note next to him and took a couple of pictures. However, whenever I travel out of Zambia, I do not take my camera with me, so had to make do with one of those disposable ones and the quality (not necessarily because of the camera) was not very good. In fact it was so bad that even Arthur couldn't sort it out, but here are the results. Incidentally, I had to sign the copyright for these picutres over to the Natural History Museum.

Click for image. Click for image.

Johnny

Yes, the Crested Crane is still in Mpika although I am sure the hotel is not now as you remember it. UIf you look back, I took some photos for you a while ago and posted them on the board (circa April 2002)

Northern Province

Last week, I was up in the Northern Province at Shiwa Ngandu, Kapisha Hot Springs and North Luangwa National Park. I was also testing out my new camera for Arthur to see whether the spirit level works or not.


Click for image. Click for image.

Arthur, what do you think?

First stop was Shiwa Ngandu for the night and the next morning I made my way to North Luangwa National Park. It is not very far - just over 100 kms, but it is mostly dirt road and although the roads are very good, it does take five hours and in some places is so steep that 4WD is required.

Click for image. Click for image.

When we arrived at Buffalo Camp, it was clear from where it got its name.

Click for image. Click for image. Click for image. Click for image. Click for image.

We were up early the next morning for a game walk - through the Mwaleshi River (about 2 feet deep) and although we did not see an enormous amount of game, we did see all the signs of it, a good number of birds, active termite mounds (at the standard temperature of 86 deg. F) and various trees. We did see, across the river, three lions and later on called for the vehicle to pick us up so that we could get a closer look.


Click for image. Click for image. Click for image.

Later that afternoon, we took a drive down towards the Luangwa River, where again there were a large number of buffalo to be seen (a herd of nearly 1,600), vultures, crested cranes, lilac breasted rollers, impala, elephant damage (both to the trees and in terms of soil erosion), wildebeest, lions etc.


Click for image. Click for image. Click for image. Click for image. Click for image. Click for image.


Click for image. Click for image. Click for image. Click for image. Click for image. Click for image.


Click for image. Click for image. Click for image. Click for image. Click for image. Click for image.


Click for image. Click for image. Click for image. Click for image.

Then it was back to Kapisha for one night


Click for image. Click for image. Click for image. Click for image. Click for image. Click for image.

and then back to Lusaka.

Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Monday, August 09, 2004 at 15:14:25 (UTC)

David Hoyle

The reason I did not give a date for the photos is because I don't really know. The photos were taken by my father and as they left in 1977 it must have been before this.

I have studied the buildings that are visible on the east side on Cairo Road, that appear in the photo, but can't remember when any of them were built / being built. I am not even sure if I can remember which building is which.

If I was to take a guess I would say somewhere between 1970 and 1977.

The one photo where you can see the white ash?? in the centre and the temporary track around it was taken from the top of the rail bridge on Independence Avenue.

Hartley

Hartley Heaton [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Binfield, Berkshire, United Kingdom
Monday, August 09, 2004 at 08:35:19 (UTC)


Doug you have got my attention, Johnny.

Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Monday, August 09, 2004 at 07:38:09 (UTC)

Links here:

http://www.rhodesiana.com/rsr/rsr3-005.html

and:

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FQP/is_4609_131/ai_93657576

Robert Worrill [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Christchurch, New Zealand
Monday, August 09, 2004 at 06:40:37 (UTC)

Don't forget Garfield Todd, he surely can't be too pleased at how things have gone in Zimbabwe considering his liberal views.

Robert Worrill [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Christchurch, New Zealand
Monday, August 09, 2004 at 06:38:12 (UTC)

DOUG Re you observation that the good doctors, Verwoerd and Voster, must be birling in their respective graves, I then tried to imagine who are not,(once firmly planted) from say, 1920 to 1970 ? ( Those who were so much part of the scene for a few short years)

It would have been contrary to their known ideals and status of the time to envisage the Continent from say, Kenya ( pronouced Keenya) south, as it is today. The song went, " Those were the days, my friend, I thought they'd never end, forever and a day " The only canditate which springs to mind at present is Sir Edgar Whitehead. (Who so enraged the locals by describing the piccaninies as todlers, sometime in the sixties!) I am almost saying I don't blame them, (Vervoerd, Voster et al ), as they were unaware of any other policies which would enhance or even compliment the situation at the time. I also don't remember any widespread opposition, in the Rhodesian Press, regarding the events at Sharpsville, which were totally over the top.

Colin Munro [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Oban, Scotland, United Kingdom
Monday, August 09, 2004 at 02:02:40 (UTC)

A man takes his Rottweiler to the vet. 'My dog's cross-eyed, is there anything you can do for him? ' 'Well,' says the vet, 'let's have a look at him' So he picks the dog up and examines his eyes, then checks his teeth. Finally, he says 'I'm going to have to put him down.' 'What? Because he's cross-eyed? ' 'No, because he's really heavy'

Courtesy TC....


Doug Waybush [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Maryland, USA, and London, England
Monday, August 09, 2004 at 01:46:26 (UTC)

Ian:

I think you may have the right name. I looked up the Swarfega website and now I'm heading for a cold shower.. grin.

Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Monday, August 09, 2004 at 01:21:53 (UTC)


Three mice are sitting at a bar in a pretty rough
neighbourhood in Lusaka late at night, trying to impress each other about how tough they are. The first mouse throws down a shot of Mosi that had been left on the bar, slams the empty glass onto the bar, turns to the second mouse and says, "When I see a mouse trap, I lie on my back and set it off with my foot. When the bar comes down, I catch it in my teeth, bench press it twenty times to work up an appetite, and then make off with the cheese."

The second mouse picks up two pints of castle ,drinks them down one after the other, slams both glasses onto the bar, turns to the first mouse and replies, "Oh yeah? When I see rat poison, I collect as much as I can, take it home, grind it up to a powder, and add it to my coffee each morning so I can get a good buzz going for the
rest of the day."

The first mouse and the second mouse then turn to the third mouse. The third mouse skulls the pint of
Guiness he has in front of him, lets out a long belch and
says to the first two, "I don't have time for this rubbish I'm off home to belt up the cat.

Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Monday, August 09, 2004 at 00:54:31 (UTC)

Ian,

cant argue with swarfega as a good old hand cleaner tho' it is green so does not quite match up with Linda's "white" description.


Linda
There is a good ol' engine cleaner product which sort of matches your initial description "gunky".

GUNK was and still is a proprietary named cleaner. I think the original stuff was used to degrease engines and the like but could be used by the unwary to clean hands. It certainly turns white when mixed with water so that could be part of your memory. Dont want to know what other memories you ight be confusing the stuff with!!!



Jack Wardell [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scotland, United Kingdom
Sunday, August 08, 2004 at 20:56:35 (UTC)

David Hoyle,

Dont know about the Lusaka Explosives you mention but in the depths of my memory your tale reminds me of an incident with explosives truck (lorry delivering from the copperbelt factory) which aparently hit a wall on a bridge on the road to Mkusi vaporising everything in site, including the escort vehicles. I'd say that was in the early 70's

Jack Wardell [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scotland, United Kingdom
Sunday, August 08, 2004 at 20:43:46 (UTC)

Linda

Swarfega?

Ian

Ian Singer [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Livingston, West Lothian, Scotland
Sunday, August 08, 2004 at 20:29:46 (UTC)

Linda how about the brand "Washa da Hands"
Some how I don't think this fits the bill; it is extremely 'gritty'!


Bill Hunt [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Widenham, Natal, South Africa
Sunday, August 08, 2004 at 20:20:24 (UTC)

Bill:
Nope, it's not Flight Hand Cream. I seem to remember it as one word only.

Bryan & Anja:
Thanks for your posting. No, it wasn't Brylcream ( a little dab will do ya!).

I decided to throw caution to the wind and contact my old boyfriend from those days to ask him what the heck it was called. I got a nasty email back from his wife, informing me that he still has 2,154 cans of it in their garage, along with his memories.. grin, and that if I contact him again, she will set the dogs on me. ha! ha! (Is that the sound of 15 men quickly checking their incoming mail for a message from me.??? ha! ha! ) No, seriously, I am now on a quest, and will report back if I can find out what it was called.

Thank you, Glen Drake, for setting me off to the point of no return with your posting. You're a bad boy.

Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Sunday, August 08, 2004 at 20:00:25 (UTC)

Hartley Heaton,

You don't give a year for the train accident (?) but I do remember sometime during my short stay in Zambia 1970-76 that a train full of explosives which I think were made in and brought down from Mufilira, blew up (near) at Lusaka station. I can't remember the final story, presumably somebody smoking where they shouldn't have been.

I spent 3 months at Nampundwe mine, some 30 miles West of Lusaka and a Company called Mitchell (?) used to deliver our explosives to the mine from Lusaka. They were the same company who were also involved in building the Kariba dam but went bancrupt in the process but I don't remember why.

Are there any members who used to work for Mitchell able to comment?

David Hoyle [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Muscat, Oman
Sunday, August 08, 2004 at 16:58:14 (UTC)

Brian and Anja
I have just looked up your story in the names directory. I see you made a pretty extensive tour in 1995 and probably saw more of the country than people who have lived there all their lives. That was well done and the country has improved since then, especialy the roads. I am in much the same position re Australia having toured fairly extensively for 3 months in 1983.

I see you would like to retire to Zambia. I have just bought a 5 acre plot in Leopards Hill area, Lusaka, for my daughter who lives there. I intend just now (which as you know is slower than now now), maybe in the next year or two to built her a house and at the same time a small cottage for myself. Maybe we will meet when you come home.

Northeners (as Arthur so grandly says),
In my next posting I will tell you about Sheba's Breasts. Now I have definately got Johnny's attention!

Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Sunday, August 08, 2004 at 11:59:02 (UTC)

Hi

Anyone remember a train wreck between the Lusaka station and Independence Avenue? I came across a few photos taken at the time and have put them up on my www.isilwana.net website.

From the look of the photos it seems that there must have been an explosion.

Hartley

Hartley Heaton [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Binfield, Berkshire, United Kingdom
Sunday, August 08, 2004 at 11:36:21 (UTC)

Hi Doug

we read your message and felt we need to reply.

We saw here in Perth three different shows of SA groups.
The first we have seen was Umoja, which hit us pretty deeply. The voices, the dancing actually the whole atmosphere was so catching that we couldn't hold back tears. The show was about the development of the music of today and it's roots. We bought the CD and we went a second time to the show in a different theatre.
The other show we saw was "The Mysteries" with a mixed cast from SA, believing mostly previous street kids etc.
I (Bryan) saw "Ipi'N tombia" in Salisbury in the late 1970s with my first wife and our two daughters.
I recall the Rhodesian African Rifles marching along Kingsway in Salisbury singing their regimental song "I will buy you a sweet banana". Without music it was a very stirring sound.
Regards Bryan and Anja
PS: thank you for the description of skonkwane, something new for me, and I don't mind to learn more (one never finishes to learn, anyway; that's my belief). Anja

Bryan Baker [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Western Australia, Australia
Sunday, August 08, 2004 at 11:04:33 (UTC)

Hi Linda

I can't really remember the name of the cream but it must be better than Bryl cream. But definetly love the description of yours. You gave us a pretty good "belly laugh" and these days one needs them more than ever before (I mean the belly laughs not the cream). Regards Bryan and Anja

Bryan Baker [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Western Australia, Australia
Sunday, August 08, 2004 at 10:37:39 (UTC)

Linda
I believe that gunky hand cleaner was Flight Hand Cleaner.
It was formulated & manufactured by an enterprising young couple in their home garage.
It became, & still is, a world best seller.
It contains lanolin.
best regards

Bill Hunt [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Widenham, Natal, South Africa
Sunday, August 08, 2004 at 08:21:47 (UTC)

As I forecast, the Nationalist party of South Africa that was founded in 1910, the party that brought apartheid into law are disbanding and joining the ANC. This is like Adolph Hitler becoming the Grand Rabbi of Jerusalem. Hertzog, Verwoerd, Strydom, Vorster en al must be flip-flopping in their graves. Kortbroek van Schalkwyk has finally crossed the Rubicon leaving the liberal Democratic Alliance as the most right-wing major party in RSA.

Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Sunday, August 08, 2004 at 04:24:28 (UTC)

I am looking for Chris and Jeanette Woolcott formerly of Chingola. Chris used to work in Musenga and after he and Jeanette got married they moved to Botswana (Ghanzi I think).

Cheers,
Owen

Owen Milner [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Melbourne, Australia
Sunday, August 08, 2004 at 02:40:57 (UTC)

That wors picture would sell wors the world over! It is wonderful.

Linda, never waste a good idea hey? Get the kids out of the house, you and Mike have a lingering wors dinner, then you coat him liberally with white engine cleaner - my goodness, the sky is lighting up over Austin. Some one is definitely letting off some rockets over that way.

Tony and Chris we spent a couple of years on Maxwell Road just down the hill from St. Ignatius. Corner of Maxwell and the road that runs down to the cemetary.


Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Sunday, August 08, 2004 at 02:08:22 (UTC)

Chris Tamm on Beit Road -
We lived right next door to the RC Church (St. Ignatius I think). So it was you who was responsible for the Lusaka rush hour was it ?!

We looked after a friends rabbit whilst they were on leave. On morning we awoke to find it had disappeared from its secure cage (and into someone's pot no doubt). I can't remember how we broke the news to them when they returned to Lusaka !

TonyAnthony Wood [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Bishops Stortford Herts, United Kingdom
Saturday, August 07, 2004 at 22:49:49 (UTC)

Northeners...

Another interesting item - 1970 travel guide:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=378&item=6916517163&rd=1



Peter Dielissen [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
Saturday, August 07, 2004 at 22:03:25 (UTC)

Northeners...

Interesting e-bay item - The Northern Rhodesia Handbook:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=29320&item=6916752984&rd=1

Peter Dielissen [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
Saturday, August 07, 2004 at 21:30:58 (UTC)

OOPS!! Sorry. It was most certainly not my intention to be erotic, Glen. I am embarrassed for the first time. No, really... If you could feel my face now, it feels quite red. Hopefully not everyone got the same impression? But, if you did, and if you have a can of that engine grease cleaner handy, call me at 1-800-EASYGIRL! Grin.. Well, I have to get myself out of this faux pas somehow, don't I? Gawd! I am going to be fined and censored for sure this time.

Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Saturday, August 07, 2004 at 20:07:57 (UTC)

Linda !
After reading your erotic posting I suddenly felt my engine rev up. It probably needs working on . . . . . but first, let's get back to your vivid description of sausages and gunky white stuff . . . .

Glen Drake [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
California, United States
Saturday, August 07, 2004 at 18:34:44 (UTC)

Bryan
I see from your profile you are looking for John Rankin. He is in USA, if you are still looking for him and want his e-mail get in touch with me on my e-mail and I will give you it.

Nicky Kontou [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Saturday, August 07, 2004 at 17:33:22 (UTC)

That piccie of wors from the Chingola reunion HAS to be the most tantalising photo I have ever seen. I could feel the steam on my glasses and smell the aroma of those delicious sausages all the way down here in Texas. It even made me salivate momentarily. I have never had that happen before from a mere photo. The only other thing that does that to me is the smell of that gunky white stuff that men use to get the grease off their hands after working on an engine... grin. I haven't a clue why, but it does. Not comparing the two for one minute, but they have the same effect on me. I know.. I'm weird. Now I can't remember the name of that stuff. Help me here, somebody??

Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Saturday, August 07, 2004 at 17:29:24 (UTC)

Ali
I must agree with you that wors does look good.

Chris
I don't want to get in trouble with Jilly by jinxing any more rugger matches so I won't forecast.

I missed the match today because I had to attend the funeral of John Charles McSeveney (92) who was a famous man in Swaziland. One could compare him to Gore Brown of Zambia. He was a Senator and and an adviser to the old King Sobhusa and was awarded the MBE by Queen Elizabeth. He was a Captain with the South African forces in north African deserts during WW2. He was a man who loved Swaziland and Swaziland loved him. He advised and guided me in my early days in Swaziland and I am sorry to see him go. His Swazi nickname was Skonkwane meaning beacon or marker peg or pillar, and surely he was a pillar of the nation.

I am sure Johnny will remember that the word skonkwane was used in Zambia for the daily task given to a worker. Now I realise that it actually meant the mark or the peg that the worker must reach before he knocked off for the day. If he finished the given task early he could go home early, long before the official shiyile (knock-off) time. In building construction most workers started before sunrise and it was very rare for anyone to be left on site after lunch. The engineers, architects, etc. didn't like this, but it worked very well in African conditions and left us free to spend the afternoon in the club bar.

There is nothing in the world to compare to the sound of Africans singing at a funeral. No organ is necessary as the voices are better than any organ. It is almost hypnotic. I remember attending the funeral of the sister of Ali Simbule (of toothless bulldog fame) in Zambia and it was the same story there.

Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Saturday, August 07, 2004 at 14:57:31 (UTC)

Norma, Craig.It is so nice to see new faces.......and seeing that wors on the brai does not only look lekker BUT...MOUTH WATERING....

Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Saturday, August 07, 2004 at 09:22:47 (UTC)


Dear Betty Mahady I have had another of the EMs I sent you returned again please send me another EM to confirm the address you sent me is correct.

- These recipients of your message have been processed by the mail server:
> betty.mahady uk; Failed; 5.4.0 (other or undefined network or routing status).
I have deleted the centre parts of your e mail address for ovious reasons Johnny.


Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Saturday, August 07, 2004 at 08:45:07 (UTC)

Chingola Reunion, July 17th, 2004, Blaine, Washington, USA

Thanks to Norma Gogle for getting these to me right after the reunion. My apologies for taking so long to get around to posting them. I'm going to blame Norma for missing surnames and if there are any spelling mistakes. :)

If your name is not linked to a Names Directory entry, it means you don't have one! I am shocked at the number that have not joined the GNR. If I had known I would have brought a sjambok with me and made all of you sit down at Tryg's computer and join! Seriously, while I realise that not everyone on the face of the planet sits glued to a computer all day, I am interested in the reasons why some people don't join, as if they are reasons I can address, then I will address them. Please contact me and let me know.


Spider Van Blerk's ignominious arrival at the reunion! He broken down about five cars from entering the US from Canada, and his car was loaded onto the flat-bed truck and delivered to the reunion.

Click for image.

Geoff Gogle working on Spider's car. It was a broken fan belt, if I remember correctly.

Click for image.

Geoff Gogle and Doug Carrell working on Spider's car.

Click for image.

Andy Anderson.

Click for image.

Anne Van Blerk and Maureen Kresfelder.

Click for image.

Some lekker 'wors on the braai! It even looks tasty in the picture.

Click for image.

Dead chicken. Not quite as tasty as the 'wors, but very good.

Click for image.

Craig Hartnett and Maureen Kresfelder.

Click for image.

Doug Carrell, Tony Crane, Jeanette Sjothun, Tracy.

Click for image.

Geoff Gogle, Dave Boyd, Tryg Sjothun.

Click for image.

A group shot on the Sjothun's back verandah: Doug Carrell, Spider Van Blerk, Tony Crane, unknown, Tryg Sjothun, Jeanette Sjothun and Tracy (behind Tryg), Andy Anderson, Leslie, Geoff Gogle.

Click for image.

The group at breakfast the next morning: Norma Gogle, Spider Van Blerk, Anne Van Blerk, Pat and Dave Boyd (behind the partition), Leslie, Andy Anderson, Jean Carrell, Doug Carrell.

Click for image.

Jean Carrell and Pat Boyd.

Click for image.

Jeanette and Tryg Sjothun.

Click for image.

Leslie, Geoff Gogle, Maureen Kresfelder, Liane.

Click for image.

Liane.

Click for image.

Lionel Kresfelder, Craig Hartnett, Geoff Gogle, Speedy Cameron, Doug Carrell, Jean Carrell, and Spider Van Blerk.

Click for image.

Maureen Kresfelder, Liane, Jean Carrell.

Click for image.

Norma Gogle.

Click for image.

Pat Coffey and Pat Boyd.

Click for image.

Speedy Cameron, Spider Van Blerk.

Click for image.

Spider Van Blerk, Geoff Gogle.

Click for image.


Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Saturday, August 07, 2004 at 06:24:12 (UTC)

Click on the Jerseys!

I forgot to add that you can click on the pictures of the jerseys for bigger pictures.


Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Saturday, August 07, 2004 at 06:01:58 (UTC)

Northern Rhodesian Rugby Jerseys with Flag and Crest

Some of you are already familiar with Bill McDonald and his Web site www.RhodesiaWasSuper.com, especially as I posted a link to his site here sometime in the last couple of months. Bill is now producing some Northern Rhodesian stuff, and he has rugby jerseys available with the Northern Rhodesian flag and crest embroidered on them. To quote Bill:

"We are making them available on either green and white or navy and white hooped jerseys. These are Barbarian custom-made jerseys, very high quality."

Some pictures are below, and you can buy the jerseys on his site at www.RhodesiaWasSuper.com.

Both the blue and white and green and white jerseys.

Both the blue and white and green and white jerseys.

A close-up of the crest and flag on the blue and white jersey.

A close-up of the crest and flag on the blue and white jersey.

A close-up of the crest and flag on the green and white jersey.

A close-up of the crest and flag on the green and white jersey.


Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Saturday, August 07, 2004 at 05:59:24 (UTC)

Hi Doug,

this is Bryan's shadow (Anja). No bad feelings about mixing up names. It happens to us too. Everyone is making mistakes. If Bryan wouldn't have done the "mistake" to leave Africa for Australia with his family I would have never met him and I would have possibly never seen the beauty of Zambia. Even so I never lived there, I am what you could call homesick. I am looking forward to the day we will be able to put our feet on zambian ground. Many regards Anja

Bryan Baker [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Western Australia, Australia
Saturday, August 07, 2004 at 04:18:24 (UTC)

Tooo sorry, Bwana Grins, your message was eaten by a lion. My son says he is willing to try again but it will cost you more than a tickey and some mealie meal.

Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Friday, August 06, 2004 at 23:20:06 (UTC)


Betty Mahadi I replied to your EM thanking you for your kind attemps to locate John Horn But it was returned unable to deliver, I have asked Tina to try and await the result, but thanks Johnny.

Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Friday, August 06, 2004 at 19:51:54 (UTC)

Douggie ou bees,

What I like most about you is that you speak your mind, and we can engage in a dialog. Most libs just deny it.

But you still dodge Mbeki's piece foundation, and fail to look around you and see just how poorly the dark continent has faired in the past.

And if you think SA will escape the despair, let us talk again in 10 years.

Rugby tomorrow - Horstruckingfailure losing by 7 points to the All Blecks - yes?



Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Friday, August 06, 2004 at 19:39:07 (UTC)

Frank and Bryan.
Sorry I got your names mixed up in my comments to you in the previous posting.

Cheers - Doug

Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Friday, August 06, 2004 at 18:59:41 (UTC)

Howzit ou Chris
If you are calling me a liberal because I object to corporate vultures awarding themselves multi-million increases and share options at the expense of the shareholders, while at the same time firing off thousands of workers then I am honored.

If you call me a liberal because I find there are good and bad people in all races and nations again I am honored.

I hate all forms of exploitation and greed from whosoever. Whether by somebody in a Wall Street office, or the Kremlin, or Mugabe in his blood stained palace.

The old saying goes, if one doesn't lean to the left when young, one has no heart; if one doesn't lean to the right when one is older, then one has no brains. To this I would add that if one has no sense of compassion or fair play as one matures, then one has no soul.

As Mandela put it so very well at his trial, " These are the principles that I live for, and if neccessary, I am prepared to die for".


Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Friday, August 06, 2004 at 18:49:59 (UTC)

From Tony Wood's bio:
Lusaka Mar 64-June 65) Beit Road

Well now Tony, there is a coincidence. Yours truly also lived in Beit Road at that time, in the bank's mess, on the corner of Leander/Lantana/Beit roads. The house used to belong to a vet and the annex was used as his clinic. Perhaps I used to race by your house in my MG, closely followed by my mess mates driving a Morris 1100, and a Cortina GT.

Ah yes, those were the days!

Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Friday, August 06, 2004 at 18:26:21 (UTC)

Wow! Bouquets and brickbats!

Frank - Thanks me mate!

Bryan - I have absolutely nothing against people who left for whatever reason. In fact I would think that in Zimbabwe it would be the most sensible course of action. I was thinking more about our South African people who have gone overseas, and then try to blaggard the country to justify their leaving. But this is fast changing with our economy improving, as many are returning home to open businesses with the money and expertise they have collected overseas.

Robert - My time in the Rhodesian army was in 1958-59 so it is pre-war. I did go up to Nyasaland when Dr. Banda started his nonsense up there and we sent him for a holiday in Gwelo. As for acts of barbarism, I have seen far worse than those you mention. For example in the Congo the flaying of the flesh off a person's leg with motor cycle chains until only the bone remains and then the still alive prisoner is set free to die in agony.

What does get up my nose is somebody from outside constantly highlighting the negative about Africa. This is on a par with those British labour party politicians who would come on a 3-day fact-finding visit and then return to safety in England where they would spout off all their answers to Africa's problems, leaving us to live with the results.

We all know there are plenty of problems but there are quite a few good signs as well and for Chris to sit in Hawaii and say South Africa is going down the drain is ridiculous. BTW the price of our fuel dropped on Wednesday as the dollar continued losing value against the Rand.

Cheers - Doug

Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Friday, August 06, 2004 at 18:16:55 (UTC)

Bill – never mind Dan Quayle’s comment re Hawaii – they were as astute as those made by Al Gore when he claimed to have “invented” the Internet.
Doug – so much of what you say is true, there are many of us who are “dislocated” and who pine for Africa. As we get long in the tooth (the old SA expression for receding gums) we all look back and find it tough to admit that just maybe we weren’t strong enough to “bite the bullet” and stick with the inevitable program. Whilst only few of us were prepared to ingratiate ourselves with the new African administrations, we, for the most part, made that effort in our choices of new homelands.
So, here I am, making plans to visit South Africa again, for the third time in 5 years. I wonder why . . . . . .
Not only is beer cold, the “klippies-‘n-coke” lekker soos ‘n krekker, one can also buy good game biltong and dry wors everywhere . . . . . . . . . . life is good!
Even the penguins have taken a liking to The Boulders at Simonstown in the Cape.
By the way Chris – I think Doug meant “Moaner” . . . .


Glen Drake [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
California, United States
Friday, August 06, 2004 at 17:54:58 (UTC)

Hey Doug,

Curious how when liberals disagree with something (this time a piece from a black African) that you will extract one part of one sentence from it, and the label it "boring" and "saying nothing". That part of Mbeki's piece is curious I will agree, and there are other contradictions in there as well, but the underlying message in there is something rarely heard of from African commentators. And so here you go again, if you cannot attack the message, then attack the messenger. Just like the (good or bad?) old days in Seorf Efrika, if the govt objected to anyone or anything written, they would go ahead and discredit or ban the author.

As far as your attempted disparraging remarks about us "gappers", I do not believe anyone (least of all me) has ever been critical of anyone staying behind. Personal decisions old chap - what works for me does not work for you. It is what really makes the world go round. But liberals always know what is best not only for him/herself, but for all the rest of mankind as well as also too. Life is not a rehearsal. (BTW, on a point of order, Mona is spelled Mauna, and is phonetically pronounced "Mah uuna")

And Bill (Hunt - what on earth is the Burgemeester of Widenham adding to the village water supply? Quayle? Hawaii? Whatever has that to do with anything in the GNR?

Where the hell is Widenham anyway?

Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Friday, August 06, 2004 at 17:36:58 (UTC)

Kenny,
We want to echo Bryan's sentiments. We were very lucky with the timing (at the end of the rains and fitted in with school hols i.e. April) so the weather was perfect although some of the secondary roads couldn't have been negotiated without the 4x4. Over the three weeks we managed to cram in 3K Km and stays at Kafue NP, the Lower Zambezi, Vic Falls and Siavonga plus B&B just outside Lusaka and Monze. We won't bore the others here with the detail but wouldn't hesitate recommending a planned trip, even with kids. Happy to tell more.
Very best

TonyAnthony Wood [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Bishops Stortford Herts, United Kingdom
Friday, August 06, 2004 at 17:25:15 (UTC)

Can anyone point me to either a published book or even research papers about 'Fort Monze'.



I have a copy of 'National Monuments of Zambia' which have an entry, albeit very brief. I visited the place in Easter 2003 (I even have GPS co-ords for those interested) but you need a machete to look around ! The cemetery is in a similar state.

Also - where could I get a street/district plan for Monze or its environs (whether it be aged or current) ? - the map shop in Lusaka couldn't help.

Very best - Tony Wood

TonyAnthony Wood [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Bishops Stortford Herts, United Kingdom
Friday, August 06, 2004 at 15:02:28 (UTC)

Colin,
I forgot to add.."At a village on the Lualaba River he witnessed the slaughter of villagers by slave traders. The letter he sent home describing the event so infuriated the public that the English government pressured the Sultan of Zanzibar to stop the slave trade. The pressure was only partially successful".........at least he did try!!

Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Friday, August 06, 2004 at 14:56:57 (UTC)

Craig.....re the Airships ...
HMMMM finding that article was by pure chance......I was in fact looking for ( more like the proverbial needle in a haystack) a photo of Lusaka Hospital........every so often I set forth looking for that elusive photo.....may be I should more often, you never know what I find next ??


Colin.......I found that information on David livingstone on quite a few different websites..........he also did a lot regarding the geographical mapping of Africa....I know there is good and bad in a lot of people, some how it is better to know of the good......esp in this world of misery and greed.


Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Friday, August 06, 2004 at 13:37:39 (UTC)

to all you lovely people out there, I have experienced great joy reaing about all the old times in Zambia, I have very happy memories from there. Having being born in Lusaka from English parents in 1953, lived there until I was 5, then lived in Livingstone, Durban , and finally Kitwe. Then moved onto England for 1 year, then onto Australia where I have lived ever since. But the African days are still alive and kicking well thanks to all you people out there. Have managed to get in contact with with Lynda fielder (Clark) thanks to my brother. She new me as a very little one and has sent photo's of her mother and my mother it is just so amazing.... In regards to TV - does anyone remember the ads - tinga-aling ginger a beer, rowntrees fruit gums and the drink cinzano? bye for now....

Christina Dillon (née Hulme) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Robina, Queensland, Australia
Friday, August 06, 2004 at 12:40:40 (UTC)

Lesley Dalton,

I have just received your "umpteenth" e-mail message and I have replied. If you did not receive my reply, then check the junk mail filter in your Hotmail account.

If anyone out there is in touch with Lesley, via e-mail, telephone, smoke signal or anything, please tell her that I have been replying to her messages, but I never hear back from her. This is obviously an issue with Hotmail, but since it's her Hotmail account I can't do anything about the fact that my e-mail to her is being filtered out.


Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Friday, August 06, 2004 at 09:38:02 (UTC)

Doug Grewer

I am not one who gets involved in political discussions, but I feel I have to agree with Robert on this one, though I appreciate your sentiments in many ways, when I left Zambia in 1982 a very dear and close friend, who was born in Mufilira sat on the wieghing - in shelf after the baggage had been put through, looked at me and said, I do not believe you are leaving, then asked who is going to turn off the lights now, thankfully that sad day has not and never will arrive, the ship of Africa will never sink. Most of us who left did so with heavy hearts and still cherish our love of the continent, we go back often, and in lots of instnces as mine have family and very close friends there it is a place that will always survive and eventually prosper, a place those of us furtunate to have spent time there, myself 33 wonderful years will always love and respect, and return to as often as we can.

Frank.

Frank Yoxall [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Woking, Surrey, England, United Kingdom
Friday, August 06, 2004 at 06:52:16 (UTC)

Doug Grewer writes...

"Like so many of our compatriots who have deserted what they saw as a sinking ship, you have a need to highlight whatever bad news comes out of Africa to justify your own actions, mostly to yourself. Now quite a few are returning having found that the grass is not greener on the other side.

Don't worry about us fools who stayed in Africa. We are quite OK. In fact nobody even noticed that you had left."

Doug,

I am somewhat surprised, that you, all of all people, would write something so completely antithetical to your professed beliefs of harmony in all things. A good number of persons who left Africa, did so for survival of themselves and their families. I am not sure whether you served in the Army during the war, or you have had your property confiscated or your favorite dogs
impaled on meat hooks, whatever, this was not just abandoning a sinking ship, it was that most basic instinct of man, survival.

I had observed the Kenya Emergency, the Congo troubles and the burning to death of a friend in her car in Northern Rhodesia. I left NR in 1963. The place was an absolute delight. I returned and saw under the sun, that what was once a prosperous community of souls was a bankrupt society with coruption running wild.
The leadership of Kaunda was a disaster. That of Mugabe to the south was a tragedy. I am sure the country will endure... only because of the genuine goodness of the ordinary citizen, not the waBenzi.


Robert Huntley [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Carmel, California, United States
Friday, August 06, 2004 at 03:40:16 (UTC)

Hi Doug,

Love your terminology. Even we are thousands of miles east across the Indian Ocean we are standing right behind and supporting much of you have said. We know that a lot of the publicity Soutern Africa is getting is not justified. A lot of people over here are kak-bang (spelling right?, not sure been away for a while) of what they don't know or understand. As we say over here :"good on ya!"

Bryan Baker [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Western Australia, Australia
Friday, August 06, 2004 at 02:57:08 (UTC)

Hi Kenny,

we have no reservation to visiting Zambia and will be back ASAP. There are many interesting countries around the world (and we have seen a few) but Zambia is and possibly will always be our favoured one. Common Sense, good communication, patience and tolerance will get you through and you will be able to enjoy the trip. Keep in touch with the people of this site and there should not be any problem.

Regards Bryan and Anja Baker

Bryan Baker [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Western Australia, Australia
Friday, August 06, 2004 at 02:50:07 (UTC)

Bill
Well said! At least if Seth Efrika is going down we are enjoying the ride. The castle is cold, the brandy is lekker, and the biltong etc.... Do you remember that old country song, "If you'r runnin down my country, you'r walking on the fighting side of me." Merle Haggard maybe?

Chris, old fruit,
you do say the nicest things. Liberal creampuff indeed! Just now you will be proposing to me?!!?

The Mbeki you quoted is our President's jealous brother and also has his ability to boringly talk a great deal without actualy saying anything sensible. For example: -

Karl Marx and Vladimir Lenin agree the private sector is the driver of modern economic development. Why did they waste their time inventing communism then? Pull the other one, it has got bells on it!

Like so many of our compatriots who have deserted what they saw as a sinking ship, you have a need to highlight whatever bad news comes out of Africa to justify your own actions, mostly to yourself. Now quite a few are returning having found that the grass is not greener on the other side.

Don't worry about us fools who stayed in Africa. We are quite OK. In fact nobody even noticed that you had left.

In Hawaii I have seen Mona Loa and Mona Kea as well as Kilauea. If I had known there was such a big Mona in Hilo I would have visited there.

Cheers - Doug






Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Thursday, August 05, 2004 at 21:10:34 (UTC)

Ken McLeod
Remember the !953 trip to Bulawayo for SA Schools tournament?
Have picture of team if you are interested.
Tommy du Plessis & Alan Finlay live nearby.
Met Rob Straw at Boschoek Golf Course some years ago.
Skatie Fourie paid me a visit about 2 yrs ago.
Dendy Zeeman passed away about 3 yrs ago.
Best regards
Bill

Bill Hunt [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Widenham, Natal, South Africa
Thursday, August 05, 2004 at 19:51:54 (UTC)

Fellow long suffering members of the GNR, here is excerpt from a speech made by that epitome of first world astute learned politicians - Daniel Quayle:
"Hawaai has always been a very pivotal role in the Pacific. It is IN the Pacific. It is part of the United States that is an island that is right here."
Looks like we are stuck with it - Bear it, but you don't have to Grin!!


Bill Hunt [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Widenham, Natal, South Africa
Thursday, August 05, 2004 at 19:16:13 (UTC)

Yes Alan,
David & I were in the same class @ LLewelyn, along with Mitch, Westy, Ubby et al. "The Ray" was in Cecil Ave and apologies, Wale was the correct location for the pool. As Arthur Murray taught thousands to dance Arthur LeBarbie taught as many to swim, including me, in between the LOUD TAPS on the mic. for those "bombing." I'll try to dig up some photies of interest. Anyone with pics of "Monkey Fountain"?. Just watched a documentary on DSTV: "Assasination" Dag Hammersjold. I remember it clearly the night his DC6 circled Ndola before doing its "wheels-up" near Dola hill.

Ken MacLeod [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Cape Town, South Africa
Thursday, August 05, 2004 at 19:01:48 (UTC)

Hi to everyone,I left Zambia as a child 27 years ago and would like to return there for a holiday but was a bit unsure of how safe it is these days.Could anyone advise me if they have been there recently and what the safety situation is these days.I would also appreciate if anyone could let me know the best places to visit in Zambia,safari etc,thanx.

Kenny Hilliard [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Cadiz, Spain
Thursday, August 05, 2004 at 18:51:36 (UTC)

Monument on the Zambian Side of the Falls

There is a monument on the Zambian side of the Falls, but it has nothing to do with David Livingstone. It's a monument to Northern Rhodesians killed in World War I, if I remember correctly. I have pictures of it, but they are buried somewhere and I'm not going looking for them. It is behind the Zambezi Sun (I think it is) hotel on the path to the Knife Edge Bridge. There might also be a museum of some sort there; I vaguely remember something there, but whatever it was I think it was closed when I was there.

Linda and Lisa,

You're welcome!


Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Thursday, August 05, 2004 at 16:45:33 (UTC)


Heather is the Crested Crane still there in Mpika, I spent many a happy evening there. Johnny.

Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Thursday, August 05, 2004 at 15:16:50 (UTC)

David Russell

I will get some photos of Ndola’s pool when I return from holiday in about 3 weeks

About 5 or 6 years ago we held a gala at the Rhokana pool but the fumes from the acid stacks made it virtually impossible to breath.


Kevin Shone [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Ndola, Zambia
Thursday, August 05, 2004 at 14:57:44 (UTC)

Liz
Thanks for passing on my message to Sue it was great hearing from her.

Craig
Thanks for pointing me in the right direction

Tina
Thanks for passing on the message to Liz

I am very grateful to the GNR site
will fill u in later

Lisa

Lisa D'Souza (née Doogan) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
London, United Kingdom
Thursday, August 05, 2004 at 14:26:33 (UTC)

Craig... my long suffering Teddy Bear...

You are so patient with my/their/our stupid questions. Here is a big e-hug. You are a saint and truly appreciated. If you ever make it to Austin, I will give you a big prezzie for all your hard work.

Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Thursday, August 05, 2004 at 12:53:23 (UTC)

http://207.30.96.11/images/david-livingstone.jpg

obtained from here:

http://207.30.96.11/toc.htm

Robert Worrill [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Christchurch, New Zealand
Thursday, August 05, 2004 at 12:51:30 (UTC)

hi all,
all this talk of monuments at the falls.
I distinctly recall a monument with a large sword and this was where , at one time, stood a small museum housing the Broken Hill man?and this monument was definitely on the Zambian side where one could walk down hundred of steps to the gorge beneath the bridge.
just adding more confusion to the board!

Hilton Williams [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Brisbane, Australia
Thursday, August 05, 2004 at 09:38:46 (UTC)

http://www.westminster-abbey.org/library/burial/livingstone.htm

BROUGHT BY FAITHFUL HANDS

OVER LAND AND SEA

HERE RESTS

DAVID LIVINGSTONE,

MISSIONARY,

TRAVELLER,

PHILANTHROPIST,

BORN MARCH 19. 1813

AT BLANTYRE, LANARKSHIRE,

DIED MAY 1, 1873

AT CHITAMBO'S VILLAGE, ULALA.

Robert Worrill [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Christchurch, New Zealand
Thursday, August 05, 2004 at 08:14:42 (UTC)

Hi

On the Zambian side of the falls you will find this. http://www.isilwana.net/zambiatrip/images/falls_15.html

The statue of Livingstone was definitely on the Zim side as far back as 1953 when we lived there. I have a photo of my grandparents standing beside it that was taken during their visit that year.

Hartley

Hartley Heaton [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Binfield, Berkshire, United Kingdom
Thursday, August 05, 2004 at 08:07:49 (UTC)

Northerners

Just checking in from an internet cafe in ..... Mpika - just imagine.

Photos of my trip to the North Luangwa to follow tomorrow (or perhaps even this evening)

Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Thursday, August 05, 2004 at 07:21:07 (UTC)

Johnny,
You are right. Livingstone's body was eviscerated and his heart(and the rest of his organs) buried in a tin box near Chitambo's village. The body was left to dry for a fortnight in the sun and was then wrapped in calico and fitted into a cylinder of bark. Sailcloth was was sewn around this and the package lashed to a pole so that, like the kitanda, it could be carried by two men.
Later because of problems in carrying the corpse through villages, a dummy package was buried and Livingstone's body was packed to resemble an ordinary bale of goods and the journey continued without incident to the coast where they arrived the following February.
Mike

Mike Wilson [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Dawlish, Devon, United Kingdom
Thursday, August 05, 2004 at 06:42:31 (UTC)


My memory is very poor now but unless I have been dreaming I visited the tree many years ago that David's heart was purported to be, buried and it was nowhere near the Vic Falls, I remember we turned up the road that led to Abercorn at Kapiri Mposhi and some where up that road we turned off to the left down a bush track until we came to the tree that our guide said was the tree where the heart was buried, and that is a long way from the falls, Johnny,

Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Thursday, August 05, 2004 at 05:39:43 (UTC)

Linda,

*big, deep, long, heavy sigh*

The answer is... "Yes!" :)

First of all, I am not currently working on anything that affects these lists. I have done the work on the database that needed to be done to correct my error, and any work that I do in the background on the Names Directory is done only on the scripts that access the database, not the database itself. On the odd occasion I need to make modifications to the structure of the database itself, I work on a back-up copy until I am ready to go live with the changes.

The generation of various lists related to the Names Directory is automated based on information in various fields. When an entry is updated in any way, shape or form, a date field in the entry is updated automatically. The list of entries updated in the last week (on the main Names Directory page) and the list of entries updated in the last 24 hours (at the bottom of every page) is generated based on the date and time in that field.

So, whether I myself update the record for one reason or another or the member himself/herself updates it, the date field is updated and the member appears on the lists of entries that have recently been updated.

A large number of entries have been updated as a result of the mistake I made for the following reasons:
  • Updated by me:
    • The entries for all members who updated their entries or who joined since the last back up had to be manually restored by me. Besides actually going to bed on Thursday night and going out on Friday evening (what a concept!), this is what took most of the 38 hours that the Directory was down. (The actual work probably took only about 12 hours.) Off the top of my head I would say that about 150 entries fall into this category, almost all of which will show that the date they were last updated was July 29th or 30th. There are a handful I completed in the wee hours of the 31st and, of course, some of those members have since updated their entries themselves anyway. (All times and dates are Pacific time.)
    • As a result of the bounce messages I received after sending the e-mail message I sent to all members, I updated over 80 entries to reflect the fact that the e-mail addresses contained within those entries no longer work. Marking them as such adds them to the list of members with bad e-mail addresses, puts them in the lists of recently updated entries (for 24 hours or a week, depending on the list), and prevents them from logging in to post messages on the message board or to send other members messages via the Web-based contact system. (After all, what's the point of being able to do either of those if the member's e-mail address doesn't work?) The only thing a member with a bad e-mail address can log in to do is update their entry.
  • Updated by members:
    • Also as a result of the e-mail message I sent to all members, we have had a larger number of members than usual updating their entries, including people who had (gasp!) forgotten that the GNR even existed. Again, just eyeballing it, I'd say we've had about 50 members update their entries in the last few days since the Names Directory was put back on-line.
So, it will be a few more days before the list suddenly drops to its normal size and evidence of my incompetence makes its way into history.

Finally, I want to clarify that there is no way "to get their [a member's] new email address". Yes, you can send a message through the Web-based contact system to another member, but the only way you get that member's address is if that member gives it to you by replying to your message via ordinary e-mail. I know that you're aware of that, but I feel the need to clarify that for anyone who might not, especially newer members.

Hope that answers your questions.


Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Thursday, August 05, 2004 at 03:57:52 (UTC)

I agree that the pictures of the Ndola pool were rather sad considering how many happy times we had swimming in galas there. I am pleased to read that it has now been re-opened and look forward to seeing an updated photo (Kevin Shone can you help??)

However, it was not only Ndola pool that suffered - Rhokana pool did not look that flash either in a recent picture posted on the GNR. It seemed to be in the process of being consumed by the encroaching mine infrastructure! Perhaps someone could take a picture for us now (Brian Rowlands can you take a hint?)

Considering I spent most of my childhood in the various Copperbelt pools (or on the slime dams having clod fights) it is sad the pools are now so rundown. Don't people swim anymore? Even in October?! Perhaps they just have clod fights now!

David Russell [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Western Australia, Australia
Thursday, August 05, 2004 at 03:57:18 (UTC)

Colin, having a senior moment:
"However, I remember the point on the path of which you speak on the Northern Rhodesian side, there was something on the right hand side going towards the Falls, on the higher ground, I am now taxing my memory to the limit, but I somehow recall it was an oblisk or some sort of statue."

The Statue in question is/was on the Rhodesian side, right near the Western Cataract. As far as I recall, there was a spot on the Zambia side (Eastern Cararact) where you would be looking across the first gorge, where you could see the Statue in the distance. I do not recall any other statue in the Zambian side at or near the Falls. (But that is not to say that KK may have placed a statue of himself overlooking the Falls??)


Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Thursday, August 05, 2004 at 02:41:32 (UTC)

Arthur,

How can we convince Hans for more pictures of Ndola. I saw the ones posted on the board, and memories just came back, at times I could not hold back the tears.


Hans,

Please more pictures of Ndola, all 200 of them. Would it be asking to much if you could copy them on a cd for me, if possible, but please do not trouble youself to much. You see Hans I lived on Second Street went to Kensenji secondary and always cycled through North Rise.

Regards


Yunus Badat [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
London, United Kingdom
Thursday, August 05, 2004 at 00:56:18 (UTC)

Craig:

Can you clarify something please? Are all the names in the "Entries Updated In The Last Week" column from stuff you are working on, or is it members updating their own profiles? Seems like an awful lot of members to be doing this at once if it is members themselves? If they are not posting at the moment, but now have new emails, it would mean catching their name on the ever-growing list and emailing them through the updated profile to get their new email address, right?

Should I just go away...? grin

Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Thursday, August 05, 2004 at 00:39:31 (UTC)

PAPPY Like you, we went down to the Falls at weekends, being the nearest Big Smoke, to get out of the Bush for a while. I must admit I never crossed the bridge in all that time, not being tourist orientated and never saw the statue which has caused all the controversy. However, I remember the point on the path of which you speak on the Northern Rhodesian side, there was something on the right hand side going towards the Falls, on the higher ground, I am now taxing my memory to the limit, but I somehow recall it was an oblisk or some sort of statue. (Some sober resident of Livingstone could possibly clarify the issue) Regarding Dr David's heart being buried in the vicinity, this may well be, but it would have to have beaten Dr. Christian Bernard to it by one hundred and fifty years or so.

Colin Munro [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Oban, Scotland, United Kingdom
Wednesday, August 04, 2004 at 23:41:15 (UTC)

Gary,

All sorts of people coming out of the woodwork! I see you're still alive too. :)


Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Wednesday, August 04, 2004 at 23:01:14 (UTC)

Pappy

Our Great Bwana Craig is correct. Livinstone's statue is on the Zim side. However if like I used to, one saw it through a drunken haze, it might appear to be on the Zambian side. Hee hee. Hope U, Shirley and all the family are well?

Regards - Gary

Gary Brassington [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Banbury Oxon, United Kingdom
Wednesday, August 04, 2004 at 22:34:50 (UTC)

Pappy,

If Livingstone's heart is buried at the Falls, I'd sure like to know what was buried at the end of several hours of Heather's driving over some pretty rough roads way the hell up in the Northern province, I think it was. :)


Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Wednesday, August 04, 2004 at 22:05:28 (UTC)

Pappy,

The statue is definitely on the Zim side - trust me - when you and me both were living down there I worked for A'Zambezi River Lodge (Zim side) and Oom Dawie was definitely south of the Zambezi.

Jilly

Jill Aplin [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
South Africa
Wednesday, August 04, 2004 at 21:59:46 (UTC)

Here is a piece which someone posted on Indaba today. For once, a perspective on Africa by a black African, who goes a long way to supporting what I have been saying all these years, with much kicking and screaming from the liberal creampuffs. Apologies for the length of the piece, but I think it is worth posting here. (And yes Doug, Sowf Efrika is heading that same African Highway to despair!)

Comment from The Star (SA), 4 August
Why Africa is becoming ever poorer
By Moeletsi Mbeki

Why are most Africans in Sub-Saharan Africa poor, and why are they getting poorer while most people in the rest of the world are becoming better off? The World Bank and the International Monetary Fund, which have become Sub-Saharan Africa's fairy godmother and godfather respectively, every year churn out statistics that tell the same tale - Africans are poor and in many instances have fallen so far down it is difficult to imagine them getting poorer. With poverty and growing impoverishment go conflicts over scarce and shrinking resources. Hence Sub-Saharan Africa's apparently never-ending cycle of violent conflicts. In its seminal study, Can African Claim the 21st Century?, the World Bank made the following observations about Sub-Saharan Africa: "Despite gains in the second half of the 1990s, Sub-Saharan Africa (Africa) enters the 21st century with many of the world's poorest countries. Average per capita income is lower than at the end of the 1960s. Incomes, assets, and access to essential services are unequally distributed. And the region contains a growing share of the world's absolute poor, who have little power to influence the allocation of resources."


All modern schools of political thought, from Karl Marx and Vladimir Lenin on the left to Friedrich Hayek and Milton Friedman on the right, are agreed on at least one thing: the private sector is the driver of modern economic development. In a quest for greater security and comfort, the theory goes, private individuals and their households are driven to seek more and more material wealth. This process in turn compels these private individuals to produce more and more, and exchange what they produce with other individuals who are also seeking greater security and comfort. The sum total of these acts of production, exchange and consumption constitute the modern capitalist economy. The capitalist economy is therefore inherently driven to produce more and more, so that its denizens may get greater and greater security and comfort. For the private individuals to produce more and better, they must generate savings that they plough back into the production process as new and improved techniques, processes and products. This enables these private individuals to constantly produce more products, better products and more diverse products that are capable of exchange with other private individuals who are doing the same.


This is the inexorable logic of capital accumulation. The more you produce the more you must produce, the cheaper you must produce and the better products you must produce, because if you do not, others who are seeking greater security and comfort will displace you in the marketplace and you will therefore suffer reduced security and comfort. The key words of this system are therefore production, exchange, markets, savings, improved techniques (research & development), medium of exchange (money), and economic growth. Africans are, of course, no different from other human beings in that they also want security and comfort. What is happening, however, is that the great majority of Africans are today experiencing the opposite; less security and comfort and in many instances they face hunger, homelessness, threats of violence and actual violence, and starvation on a daily basis. Africa, however, has arguably one of the largest private sectors in the world today. Most Africans live and work in private households that populate the African countryside. Theoretically, if we refer to the model described above, Africa should be a hive of economic activity and growth driven by the logic of these private individuals and households attempting to maximise their security and comfort. What has gone wrong?


In the model described above, the underlying assumption is that private individuals are free to pursue their search for security and comfort and they, therefore, own and control the means of achieving their objectives. They are assumed to be free to exchange what they produce without hindrance and that where they are able to make savings, they are free to retain those savings and plough them back in improved techniques or in other investment avenues as they may wish. This is not the case with the private sector in Sub-Saharan Africa. Africa's private sector is predominantly made up of peasants and secondly, of subsidiaries of foreign-owned multinational corporations. Neither of these two groups have the complete freedom to operate in the marketplace because they are both politically dominated by others - non-producers who control the state. Herein lies the weakness of the private sector in Africa, that explains its inability to become the engine of economic development. Africa's private sector lacks political power and is, therefore, not free to operate to maximise its objectives. Above all, it is not free to decide what happens to its savings. Let us start with the situation of Africa's peasants.


Peasants' vulnerability: According to Marx, peasants are not able to form an independent political force that can represent their interests; they are therefore open to exploitation by other social groups that dominate them politically. In one of the famous passages from his classic analysis of French society in the 19th Century, Marx had this to say about the powerlessness, and therefore vulnerability, of peasants: "The smallholding peasants form a vast mass, the members of which live in similar conditions but without entering into manifold relations with one another. Their mode of production isolates them from one another instead of bringing them into a mutual intercourse ... Each family is almost self-sufficient; it itself directly produces the major part of its consumption and thus acquires its means of life more through exchange with nature than in intercourse with society. A smallholding, a peasant and his family; alongside them another peasant and another family. A few score of these make up a village, and a few score of villages make up a department ... In so far as millions of families live under economic conditions of existence that separate their mode of life, their interests and their culture from those of the other classes, and put them in a hostile position to the latter, they form a class. In so far as there is merely a local interconnection among these smallholding peasants, and the identity of their interests begets no community, no national bond and no political organisation among them, they do not form a class. They are consequently incapable of enforcing their class interests in their own name, whether through a parliament or through a convention. They cannot represent themselves, they must be represented." But who represents the interests of the peasants in Africa today? The answer is nobody.


The one African politician who claims to act in the interests of peasants, Zimbabwe's Robert Mugabe, has reduced the once-proud and almost self-sufficient Zimbabwean peasants to paupers who now have to be fed by the United Nations' World Food Programme. Africa's peasants are therefore prey to the forces that have the ability to form political organisation and therefore control the state. The way that peasants are preyed upon by the controllers of the state - the political elite - has been studied extensively, not least by the World Bank itself. Fundamentally, the political elite uses its control of the state to extract the surplus or savings that if the peasant were free to retain they would have invested in improving their production techniques or to diversify into other economic activities. Through marketing boards, taxation systems and the like, the political elite diverts these savings to finance its own consumption and the strengthening of the repressive instruments of the state. The Economist on July 17 made the following observation about Ethiopia's dependence on foreign food donations: "By law, all Ethiopian land is owned by the state. Farmers are loath to invest in improving productivity when they have no title to the land they till. Nor can they use land as collateral to raise credit. And they are taxed so heavily that they rarely have any surplus cash to invest."


A great deal of what Africa's political elites consume and what the African state consumes, is however not produced locally but rather imported. Elite and state consumption, therefore, does not create a significant market for African producers but instead acts as a major drain on national savings that would otherwise have gone into productive investment in Africa. This is the secret to Africa's growing impoverishment, despite its large private sector. The more the African political elites consolidate their power, the more they strengthen their hold over the state, the more the peasants are likely to become poorer, and the more the African economies are likely to regress or, at best, mark time. The most graphic illustrations of this iron law of African underdevelopment is the role the oil industry plays in Africa. Oil revenues make it possible for the political elite to literally become detached from the local population and economy and, therefore, to live in an oasis. When this happens there is therefore no need for the political elite and the state it controls to invest in mass education, health care, housing and transportation infrastructure that the population at large needs. Everything thus goes into a state of decay, except of course for the welfare of the political elite and the repressive machinery of the state. Nigeria provides a good example of this phenomenon. The number of Nigerians living below the poverty line increased from 19-million in 1970 to 90-million in 2000. This was accompanied by a massive rise in inequality. In 1970 the top 2% of the population earned the same income as the bottom 17% but by 2000, the income of the top 2% was equal to that of the bottom 55%


Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Wednesday, August 04, 2004 at 21:55:32 (UTC)

Hey guy`s,
I used to go to the falls a lot on both sides,and you know what, I could of sworn the statue of Livingstone was on the Zambian side,some where near to where you joined the path to the knife edge bridge.Livingstones heart was buried under the boabab tree as you aproached the rain forest on the Zimbabwian side,I don`t remember any statue,there.But hey who am I.

Pappy Papier [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Glasgow, United Kingdom
Wednesday, August 04, 2004 at 20:40:45 (UTC)


Frank when the shaft was sunk I was in charge of installing the pumps in the chamber, and while we were there three african lads came down the shaft into the chamber they had been sat on a plank across the top of the shaft when the the plank snapped with there combined weight but why no safety belts, there was nowhere overhead to clip on to, but i would imagine some one caught a lot of flak. Johnny.

Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Wednesday, August 04, 2004 at 18:39:40 (UTC)


Betty Mahady, was a buddy of mine a surveyor at Nchanga mine any relation of yours? he came down to Rossing Uranium in SWA I think his name was John but my memory is now Kaput, but if you know where he is now please let me know thanks Johnny.

Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Wednesday, August 04, 2004 at 18:25:26 (UTC)

Frank Prior

I think the shaft sinker Delport you are referring to had 3 or 4 sons in Bancroft. The son I remember specifically is Tony who was involved in a very bad car accident between Bancroft and Chingola. He was left badly injured and spent many weeks in the mine hospital in Bancroft but his passenger, Les Whitehead was sadly killed at the young age of 19.

Betty Mahady (née Horn) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
United Kingdom
Wednesday, August 04, 2004 at 14:52:09 (UTC)

Gumboot dance
The Gumboot Dance (isi’cathulo - ‘shoe’ or ‘boot’ in Zulu) originated on the gold mines of South Africa more than a century ago. In the deep and dark shafts, workers would send messages to each other by slapping their boots. From these early beginnings the Gumboot Dance evolved as workers adapted traditional dances, and rhythms, to the only instruments available - their boots and bodies. Often the songs openly mock the miners’ bosses, or criticise wages and conditions, while the bosses smile gratuitously and applaud vigorously - blissfully ignorant of the content, sung in Xhosa, Sothu, Zulu or Ndebele. I assume workers throw in some Chi’kabanga or Chi’lapa-lapa if they want to be in no doubt that their employers ‘get the message’.

Chi’koti (or chicotte)
I used to be the proud owner of a “Chi’koti” – made from hippo hide with a vegetable ivory pommel on the handle – until a Rottweiler X Ridgeback bitch I owned, decided there was still some flavour left in it. She must’ve spent a whole day gnawing on it, for there was very little left by the time I arrived on the scene. Gentle and loyal ol’ Molly had the jaws and apetite of any self-respecting hyena.

Johnny,
The CEO of Cementation Mining in Gauteng is from BH.

Regards


Charles Cartmill [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stellenridge, Cape Town, South Africa
Wednesday, August 04, 2004 at 11:04:39 (UTC)

Hi

I worked many hours on the galaway stage at the bottom of the Bancroft shaft, this shaft was sunk through water impregnated rock and oilskins was the order of the day, it was like working in a downpour, I believe that they pumped out millions of gals per day or week?

Anyone out there remember the Master Sinker his surname was Delport, when the shaft was completed he died falling down the shaft, I am not sure how that happened? some people said it was suicide.

He was a tough Afrikanner, who was a bit suspicious of soeties, But we got on together. a great guy.

TTFN Frank & Ethel

Frank Prior [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Oldham, United Kingdom
Wednesday, August 04, 2004 at 10:29:38 (UTC)


Bill you hit the nail on the head it would have been the Cementation Dancers as I was on the sinking of a shaft at Nchanga with them that turned out to be a white elephant, due I believe to a miscalculation of the ore reserves that were supposed to be down there and was then used as a ventilation shaft, and to all the lads that rode the Galloway Stage it was a rough old life wasn't it?.

Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Wednesday, August 04, 2004 at 06:54:34 (UTC)

Looking for anyone that may have been in Lusaka, Zambia in the early 1970s (highschool aged). You can reach me at jmaswoswe@aol.com. Thanks.

Jordan

Jordan Maswoswe [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Houston, Texas, United States
Wednesday, August 04, 2004 at 06:53:21 (UTC)

Hi there,

Yes the custodian of the Ndola pool was indeed Aurther La Barbie, he was also the chap who used to light the annual bomb Fire on November the 5th at MOTH Hall grounds, I remember on year in the 70's when it was wet and in order to assist the fire get going he threw some petrol on from an open can, the fire was in fact already lit and whoof up it went flashed back to the can and and dear old Auther, old Loftie Hay effectively extinguished him with no apparant damage!! Whilst reminicing, can any body help me with a contact number or address for Fernandes (Fred) Resende and his wife Jayne? Fred was a very talanted young Architect with Peover & Cameron Smith in Ndola, ex Llewellyn, as was Jayne who's mother ran a creche on Cumberland Avenue Kansenji, where my daughter attended. if Fred or anyone who reads this knows of their whereabouts I would appreciate you letting me know.

Frank.

Frank Yoxall [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Woking, Surrey, England, United Kingdom
Wednesday, August 04, 2004 at 06:22:23 (UTC)

I see a couple of people had asked where the Ndola public pools was (is) situated. Ken MacLeod thought it was St Patricks ....

I think it was on the corner of what was then Wales Ave and St Andrews Rd.

Ken ..... where you not in my boet's (David) class at Llewellin High? He's in Somerset West now.

Alan Tomlinson [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Randburg, Gauteng, South Africa
Wednesday, August 04, 2004 at 05:22:11 (UTC)

DAVID RUSSELL

Re: The Zambian Swimming Team

The blond girl in the second row from the top, Beverley Hodgson, is my step sister and she can be located at www.BevsSwimSchool.com

Anona Balloch [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
United Kingdom
Wednesday, August 04, 2004 at 05:16:36 (UTC)

Robert Summers wrote:
How sad were the pictures of the Ndola pool. I'm so glad it's been renovated and re-opened. There was one guy responsible for its smooth running in the "50s and "60s. I can see him but can't put a name to him. Anybody help me out?
------------------------------------------

You can only be thinking about Arthur Le Barbie (sp?) the custodian of the Ndola pool, and the terror of all the okes who used to 'bomb' from the dive boards. He used to shout across the tannoy from his office "STOP THAT BOMBING"

Alan Tomlinson [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Randburg, Gauteng, South Africa
Wednesday, August 04, 2004 at 05:15:59 (UTC)

Robert Summers

His name was Mr Le Barbie. Not sure of spelling.

Robert Worrill [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Christchurch, New Zealand
Wednesday, August 04, 2004 at 05:14:49 (UTC)

How many of us had heard of Darfur until a few weeks ago? We will probably never forget that name now.

Keith Binns [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Wednesday, August 04, 2004 at 04:10:13 (UTC)

Ken, was the Golden Ray a deli/snack bar next to Holdsworth chemist on Cecil Avenue? If not, please refresh my memory.

How sad were the pictures of the Ndola pool. I'm so glad it's been renovated and re-opened. There was one guy responsible for its smooth running in the "50s and "60s. I can see him but can't put a name to him. Anybody help me out?

The Road has really been busy lately and I, for one, am pleased with the exchanges and the stories. I'm not a regular contributor but hardly a day goes by that I don't get my ration of NR/Zambia "stuff". The photographs are my favourite part, but then as I kid I always liked the pictures better than the stories in "Playboy".

Robert Summers [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Dayton, Ohio, United States
Wednesday, August 04, 2004 at 03:30:25 (UTC)

Ali I don't know to whom Livingstone exposed the inhumanity of the slave trade. ( Who could do anything about it in any case) The wealth of Bristol, Liverpool and Glasgow was founded at that time (to mention but a few of the most obvious) on the slave trade, either directly or indirectly with the return cargoes of the slavers from the New World. A sad fact is that the huge Victorian mansions built in my small town (now mainly hotels) were built by returning ex-pats from the Windies (except for a few Mandalays) I very much doubt if anyone questioned the source of their wealth and status in those days. To stretch the subject to its breaking point, a question was asked at Scottish Question Time in Westminster in 1946 by Sir Duncan MacCallum, Tory MP for Argyll, as to why Italian POW's were being used as slave labour to build the Hydro-Electric Scheme of Loch Sloy at Loch Lomond, when so many of the returning ex-servicemen in his ajoining county were unable to find work. Economics? Unbelievable? Check Hansard!!

Colin Munro [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Oban, Scotland, United Kingdom
Wednesday, August 04, 2004 at 00:45:59 (UTC)

With interest, i downloaded the 'sad' pictures of the Ndola swimming pool. I have a "clip" circa around 1962 which I will try to download. Wasn't it St.Patrick's Rd?. Used to live opposite the Northern News. Anybody remember the "Golden Ray"? All part of growing up, and the "pool room' at the Savoy. Lion Export 1s.

Ken MacLeod [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Cape Town, South Africa
Tuesday, August 03, 2004 at 18:54:05 (UTC)

Johnny
The tribe that performed the boot dance you refer to, is the Cementation Tribe - Head office Commissioner St, Joburg,
One of their interesting tribal rites is fast track shaft sinking!
regards

Bill Hunt [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Widenham, Natal, South Africa
Tuesday, August 03, 2004 at 18:44:12 (UTC)

Nicky

Yes - Paddy was Pat (Ringo to some). I will pass on your regards, however, I have replied to your message privately.

Sue Coughlan (née Forde) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, WA, Australia
Tuesday, August 03, 2004 at 15:00:38 (UTC)

I am not sure exactly where it was maybe the copperbelt but the last tribal dancers I remember seeing were dressed in shorts, unlaced mine boots, and underground hard hats with a whistle clamped firmly between there teeth, can any one suggest what tribe they were from? Johnny.

Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Tuesday, August 03, 2004 at 14:33:15 (UTC)

Just a bit more on the concern over lions and other animals in danger throughout Africa, concentrating on South-ern Africa - Zaire/Zambia down: If you feel you would like to assist in anyway, please write to IFAW (International Fund for Animal Welare) 411 Main Street, Yarmouth Port, MA 02675-1822, USA, and they will put you onto the various organisations affiliated to any particular area you enquire about.

Log into their website to find out more: www.ifaw.org


Linda Moult [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Kyalami, Johannesburg, South Africa
Tuesday, August 03, 2004 at 12:28:25 (UTC)

And a bit more:

Sjambok
The sjambok is the traditional whip of South Africa. It is made from an adult hippopotamus (or rhinoceros) hide. The name seems to have originated as sambok in Indonesia, where it was the name of a wooden rod for punishing slaves. When Malayan slaves were imported to South Africa, the instrument and its name were imported with them, the material was changed to hide, and the name was finally incorporated into the Afrikaans language , spelled as sjambok. A strip of the beast’s hide is cut and carved into a strip 3 to 5 foot long, tapering from about 1 inch thick at the handle to about 3/8” at the tip. This strip is then rolled until reaching a near circular form. The resulting whip is as flexible as whalebone, and very tough. A plastic version was made for the South African Police, and used for riot control. When a similar instrument is made from another animal’s hide, it is called a litupa. The instrument is also known as kiboko (the name for the hippopotamus) in Kiswahili and as mnigolo in Malinke. In the Portuguese African colonies it was called a chicote, from a Portuguese word for rod or whip.

So there you are.

Robert Worrill [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Christchurch, New Zealand
Tuesday, August 03, 2004 at 07:51:52 (UTC)

Picture of one in use here:

http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~anthro/courses/306/chicotte.jpg

Looks like a sjambok pretty much.

Web page here:

http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~anthro/courses/306/RedRubber1.html


Robert Worrill [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Christchurch, New Zealand
Tuesday, August 03, 2004 at 07:44:12 (UTC)

A chicotte is a strip of hippopotamus hide, used as a kind of club or whip in the Congo.

Link:

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/chicotte


Robert Worrill [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Christchurch, New Zealand
Tuesday, August 03, 2004 at 07:36:38 (UTC)

GNR Fundis - I need your help.

I recently read King Leopolds Ghost and am intrigued by the description of a Chicotte, which sounds like a fancy type of sjambok. I possess a nice 19th century sjambok (it has no recreational purpose - honest!) and as a friend of mine is putting together a book and exhibition on racism he is keen to find a chicotte. I would really like to know the difference between a sjambok and a chicotte, and of course if any of you have one I would really like to see an image (your secret will be safe with me).

To add to the discussion on Livingstone King Leopolds Ghost is pretty revealing on HM Stanley.

Are there still cultural dances at Vic Falls? If so which tribe is it that does the dancing? My recollection is of Chokwe costumes but as Vic Falls is pretty far from the Chokwe heartland.


David Russell

Great photograph - Ron Seeglaar isn't quite so slim these days, do you know if he has seen this photo lately?

George Maxwell [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Edinburgh, Scotland
Tuesday, August 03, 2004 at 06:26:15 (UTC)

Philip thank you for the picture of the test pattern. I am sure television sets were purchased or hired long before the Television studio started transmitting. I can remember the test pattern coming on the screen at about five in the afternoon maybe with some music and people would sit entranced deciding if the lines were darker than the day before, or clearer or less clear. What a relief when finally Little Joe and the Bonanza gang came galloping across the screen.
I can remember going to someone's house on Central Street and the house was in darkness. We let ourselves in the back door and sort of groped our way to the living room and the family were all sitting around the TV set in the dark, we found ourselves a space to sit and waited until a commercial break then spoke to whoever it was we had come to see and then groped our way out again. To this day I have no idea who the family was or why we went there, but I have never fo