Northern Rhodesians Worldwide
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Message Board
Jill that is bad news have spent many happy hour propping it up Johnny.
Johnny, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, September 30, 2004 at 20:45:05 (UTC)
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All Sports People,
Last night the Wanderers Club House in Joburg burnt down. An historic landmark gone.
Jill
Jill Aplin, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, September 30, 2004 at 15:14:21 (UTC)
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John MacDonald, &/or Gwen, (Ndola/Kitwe) looking for contact with this couple for a friend - Judith Clarke now Horner. Does anyone have any info of family? thanks , Donna
Jurina Lang, New Zealand [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, September 30, 2004 at 10:35:40 (UTC)
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John Milton
Is your email address still valid?
Peter Dielissen, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, September 30, 2004 at 07:49:11 (UTC)
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Tim,
Not sure which of your questions you figured out, so I'll answer both. The site can be navigated using the "Site Menu" in the column on the right, where you will see links to the major areas of the site. There is also a page with information on adding pictures to the board.
Hope that helps.
Craig Hartnett, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Thursday, September 30, 2004 at 07:39:42 (UTC)
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Never mind. I figured it out.
Tim
Tim Fulcher, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, September 29, 2004 at 19:33:50 (UTC)
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Never mind. Figured it..
Tim Fulcher, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, September 29, 2004 at 19:16:05 (UTC)
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Keith When I printed Fisholigy I thought I was inventing a new word I had no idea there was such a title you live and learn.
I was hanging around Bancroft to in 68 and usd to play golf on that course you never mentioned the odd crocodile that used to appear now and again, a great little town, but I missed out on miss Mattress unusual for me, I had a case once there when I was working in my second Job as a detective in the CID, A 14 year old girl was found hands tied behind her at the bottom of the steps adjoining the post office, she said she had been kidnapped and assaulted by two Greek gentle men, after turning Bancroft upside down and giving the Greek population a hard time I found out that her 12 year old sister had tied her up and they had invented the story because she did not want to return to school in SR, If there is any Greek Gentle men who were involved reading this I apoogise profusely. Johnny.
Johnny, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, September 29, 2004 at 17:43:55 (UTC)
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'k, here we go..
Hi all,
Small world! I've been looking for a site with pics and maps of Ndola (preferably during the '60's when I was there), found this site and started going thru' the BB. Colin Gray appeared. Aha says I, I know two Colins Gray (Grammer??), one of whom lives next door. Turns out my next door neighbour of 10 yrs grew up in Ndola at the same time as myself. However Colin is 10yrs older than myself so it's unlikely he would have frequented the bowling club christmas party at the same time as myself.
Colin, who is presently away, alluded to the fact that there are many more picture on the website than may be found at the memerobilia/photos site, can anybody help me here?
Next, I've yonks of pics that I'd be happy to share. How do I go about posting them (no porn, unless a happy childhood counts as porn)?
Best regards
Tim Fulcher
Tim Fulcher, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, September 29, 2004 at 17:42:25 (UTC)
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Hi Donna,
I am sure you wont have forgotten me as I played hockey and softball with both yourself and your Mom, not to forget all the other people who made living in Rhodesia such great fun.
I shared a lot of laughs with your Mum and yourself, please drop me a line I would love to hear from you, and when you are next in the U.K. perhaps you could get in touch I would love to see you again.
Regards,
Maz Martin or Marianne Griffiths commonly know as Griff.
Marianne Martin, England [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, September 29, 2004 at 15:32:43 (UTC)
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Hi Craig,
thank you for fwdg message from Stephen Courtney. Did pass it on to my daughters Amanda and Kerry, think Amanda and Stephen were in the same class in Waterfalls.
regards Bryan
Bryan Baker, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, September 29, 2004 at 13:00:11 (UTC)
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Chris
I was discreetly suggesting that your e-mail address would have been Christ@..... as mine was Keithb@......
No offence meant, it was just a thought.
Johnny,
Spell check on fisholigy says you can only become a professor of fishology.
Desiree,
I was in Bancroft, Chililabombwe or Croaking Frog for 3 months in mid 1968 during my long vacation between 2nd and 3rd years at Uni in UK. Anglo-American flew me out on a sort of work experience (holiday) and I liked it so much I travelled back overland through Rhodesia, Botswana on the railway, and on to Durban from where I sailed to Southampton on one of the Union Castle liners. It was a brilliant intro to Africa. The only person I can remember from Bancroft was an expat nurse whose name escapes me but for some reason I remember her nickname which was "Mattress". I loved the golf course there which was apparently the only one in the world with a local rule about what happens when your ball lands in a hippo's foot-print. You get a free drop.
Cheers everyone!
Keith Binns, United Arab Emirates [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, September 29, 2004 at 12:37:37 (UTC)
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Romy,
I did get your email and thank you very much for your prompt reply. Very remiss of me not to let you know that I had. I am going through a very busy period at the moment so I will make that my excuse.
Regards
Robert Worrill, New Zealand [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, September 29, 2004 at 12:26:47 (UTC)
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Romy - No, I am not related to those Tomlinson's (KZN) at all - I only have one elder brother in CT, SA, and that is it. My elderly folks and my younger sister live in UK. My wife died 3 years ago, and our 2 adult sons are now both in Europe. Tomlinson is quite a common name, i.e. some oke called Tom many years ago had a son so they called him Tomlin (little Tom) and then he had a son so I guess they called him Tomlin's son?? A common name indeed - I think my Great- (x about 7) Grandfather was hanged in public in Kendall, Lancashire, for stealing a sheep, or a pig or something - circa 1763!! Must have been a great chap...... but a commoner!
Alan Tomlinson, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, September 29, 2004 at 12:26:40 (UTC)
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Hi Robert Worril and Alan Tomlinson
I am having problems posting. I don't know if it is our sever or just me - BC girl.
I am not related to Mrs Kloppers of Ndola. We were living in Livingstone. I remarried in 1990 to an Afrikaans Chap in Vanderbijlpark.
Alan, are you by any chance related to the Tomlinsons of Escombe, Queensburgh, Durban. I was in school with a Cathy Tomlinson (older than I) who had 2 or 3 brothers.
Hilton Williams
I replied to your Email and just hope you received it. I do recall a Rosiland Burns but things are so foggy now.
I do have some photographs of when we made our First Holy Communion and can't even remember the names of the children with me.
Take care
Rome (Rose)
Romy - Rosemary Kloppers, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, September 29, 2004 at 10:42:03 (UTC)
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Hi to Robert Worril & Alan Tomlinson
I have been unable to contact you both. Don't know if it is the server or just me being ignorant - a BC girl.
I am not related to Mrs Kloppers of Ndola. I remarried in 1990 to an Afrikaans Chap in Vanderbijlpark hence my new surname.
Alan, are you by any chance realted to the Tomlinsons who were living in Escombe, Queensburgh, Durban during the late 60's early 70's. I was in school with a Cathy Tomlinson (older than I) who had 2 or 3 brothers.
Hilton Williams.
I replied to your Email and don't know if you received it. I do recall a Rosiland Burns but everything is so foggy now.
Take care
Romy (Rose)
Romy - Rosemary Kloppers, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, September 29, 2004 at 10:33:45 (UTC)
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BASIL WILSON
I was very sad to see the notice on the message board regarding the passing on of Basil.
Condolences to Lydia and the boys as well as Hillary (in Australia).
Basil was a very special person.
Ida Pullen, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, September 29, 2004 at 10:33:42 (UTC)
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DONNA LANG:
I can only echo Linda's sentiments regarding the trip down memory lane your posting prompted. I'm sure you won't remember me but we lived across the road from you in Garneton, in 12 Azurite Road. It's quite a coincidence because just this past weekend, my mom (Dorothy Eldridge) - (during one of her ever-increasing journeys into the dark and distant past!) was relating the story of the chicken being eaten by the puff-adder not too far from your back door! Your mother was a great source of comfort to her on many occasions and I know she loved her dearly. She'll be thrilled to get the news that you're somewhere out there - another link to her past which seems to be disappearing fast.
Looking forward to seeing you post again!
Lynthia Nadauld, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, September 29, 2004 at 04:55:44 (UTC)
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Tina....
What wonderful news, I remember you telling me about your cousin ages ago........Congrats to the paralympic boccia team !!!
Ali Key, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, September 29, 2004 at 02:17:06 (UTC)
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Gary many happy returns old mart hope the kiddywigs gave you a nice day give them my love Johnny.
Johnny, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, September 28, 2004 at 23:34:07 (UTC)
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Philip Pain, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, September 28, 2004 at 23:21:14 (UTC)
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Donna Lang
What a lovely surprise to see you on the GNR! Seeing your name today has taken me on the most pleasurable trip down memory lane. For those of you who may remember her, Donna was just about the most amazing world-class softball player ever to come out of Northern Rhodesia in her time! I would not be surprised if Artie can find an article or six on her in the Rhokana Reviews somewhere. Never mind me with my 2X4! This lady meant business with a softball bat. Man, she was good!! But it's not just that I am thinking of. Her parents were the late Ma and Pa Lang of Garneton who have been mentioned on this site before. Donna, I can't remember his name without looking in my emails, but someone on this site found an old car of your mom's in the bush in Garneton and has restored it. Perhaps he will respond after reading this. Ma and Pa (as they were affectionately known to all) coached the Swifts when we used to practice out at the O.B. Bennett Hall, way back in the 60's. (Gawd, am I that old?) That couple had more love in them for everyone's kids than just about anyone else I have ever come across. I can still see Ma's twinkling eyes, and her naughty smile, and don't forget her ever-full Mazoe orange bottle full of hot tea that she drank every where she went. I can also still feel the sting of her hand on my bum when I was full of it.. which was often.. grin. Lovely, lovely lady. Pa spent many an hour trying to help us be the very best we could be as players and never failed to encourage us in everything we attempted to do, both on or off the field. The nicest couple you could ever wish to meet. I miss them today...
Bill Hunt
No fair! You should warn us when you are going to post such a bleddy funny story in future. I am sitting here at my computer, drinking a nice cup of tea, and now it is all over me. I larfed my head off. Thanks!
Paul Cowie
I liked the story just as much the second time I read it. More, please.
Which reminds me.. Phil Pain... where are you?
Linda Hayes, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, September 28, 2004 at 22:28:16 (UTC)
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Sorry Norma I didn't mean that you don't count........ Very very bad wording on my behalf!! I meant that your mother is who my mother remembers..... Please stay in touch. Trying to remember Kenneth. Jar my memory if you can. Its been a long time. I am thrilled to make contact. Thanks so much for replying.
Desiree VanderSpuy, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, September 28, 2004 at 21:26:13 (UTC)
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Paudie/Sue, Ada/Chris, Tina, Pappy, Etc.
Thanks for the birthday wishes. Shucks I thought I had kept my birthdate a secret. Chris Forde - best wishes to U for your birthday on the 30th.
Alec Swan - good to see U posting on the GNR. Hope U R well.
Gary Brassington, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, September 28, 2004 at 21:22:46 (UTC)
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Hey, this site really works!! Just found four names from long ago......! Thanks for replying. Took a couple of messages to do so but what the hell. Great to make the contacts. :-) Seems Bancroft wasn't as small as it really is. Keep going Chililabombwe. David, Nkana was not Bancroft but you are forgiven. My Mother remembers you. She also lives in Durbanville now. Remembers Alan and Bob too. Mary Dye.... not very clear. No message and no memory. Perhaps another name? Joan........ no doubt about it. Thanks for replying. Would love to stay in touch. Norma, sorry in this round only your mother counts but thanks for the reply. Please let Joan know.
Desiree VanderSpuy, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, September 28, 2004 at 21:10:20 (UTC)
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Blame this one on Linda, who sid I should post it!!
Obviously, all shops/garages mentioned were in Muf. Hope you enjoy the story and could possibly find me an A110 or a Wolseley 6/110....my 2 shiillings and sixpence, can stretch a little further now!
Fond Memories of my first Motor Car?
The motoring “bug” bit me fair and square when my grandfather took delivery a red Austin Healey 100 in 1954. That car was every boy’s dream, and as I sat behind the steering wheel, savouring the aroma of Connolly hide, I could but dream of the day when I would one day own my own car.
1955 dawned, and I became the recipient of a brand new bicycle and an increase in weekly pocket money from 2/0 to 2/6. The freedom of my own wheels found me cycling “down town” every Saturday morning, firstly to gaze at the new Zephyrs at Duly’s garage, and then on to the local store, where I would finally buy my very first car.
They had a glass- covered shelf; full of the most beautiful Dinky toys imaginable, but the one that caught my eye was a silver Sunbeam Talbot.
She caught my eye one Saturday morning, by which time the 2/6 had rapidly diminished after the purchase of a Coke and sweets, which left me with 1/6 for the Saturday afternoon matinee, and not close to the 3/0 they were asking for the silver beauty.
For some reason, the words, “save” and “piggy-bank”, never came into my vocabulary and after a week of dreaming about The Talbot, I was at the store when the doors opened at 8 a.m. with my 2/6 clutched firmly in my hands.
I will never forget the feeling of walking through the door, knowing that I would soon be leaving with a new car, and I proudly marched up to the assistant behind the counter and asked for The Talbot.
She unlocked the door and produced “my” car, allowing me to caress it, inspecting everything, from the black chassis to the red interior. Her smile disappeared, however, when I produced the 2/6 and asked for the car.
“No, young man,” she said. “You’re sixpence short, do you want me to keep it for you until next week?” Somehow I did not understand that I would actually have to save up for this car, and after leaving the shop with my heart in my boots, I went and consoled myself by buying a Coke and sweets and going to the Saturday Matinee.
The following Saturday, I was once again there with my half-crown, eagerly awaiting to be attended to, to take delivery of “the new car”.
Of course, I was once again sixpence short, and in despair, as I could see no way of ever reaching the magic 3/0 purchase price!
The saga continued for another month, after which the manager of the store was called, and a deal was struck. I received a discount of sixpence, and finally went home with my silver beauty!
A true motoring enthusiast had been born!
Paul Cowie, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, September 28, 2004 at 20:18:22 (UTC)
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GNRs – True Story, no political Bullshite!
YOU THINK GETTING A COPPER BONUS WAS EASY!!
An old battled scarred lion, who due to his diminishing ability to catch prey for the pride, was booted out the family by a bunch of randy young turks.
The disheartened, hungry, timeworn warrior had heard that the dogs & other domestic pets of the mining camp provided easier pickings, & so one night he left the bush & ventured into the streets to do a recce.
He very quickly became disoriented by the unfamiliar surroundings, scents & noises.
One unfamiliar scent that caught his interest was that of Mrs Reckners famous cornish pasties baked by her in the Mine Recreation Club tearoom.
The Miners' journeys home were usually broken by the mandatory & therapeutic pause at the Rec Club pub, & a cornish pastie gambit sometimes salved one's conscience as well as quelled the anger of one's better half! These delights were always in demand as peace offerings to the wives who had been waiting long & patiently for the return of their exhausted loved ones from the labours of underground copper mining.
On this evening, a practised veteran of the procedure, Joe, bade farewell to his pub mates, grabbed his packet of pasties & made his unsteady way in the darkness to his pushbike parked adjacent to the tearoom refuse bins.
Mister lion was busy rummaging through the refuse bins & causing quite a clatter.
Joe, after drunken leer through the gloaming, retorted 'Voetsak you Bleddy Brak." to what looked like a large stray dog.
The king of beasts took exception to the derisory tone of voice & let out a deep & resonant growl.
Joe advanced & made as if to deliver a hefty kick to the mongrel & this evoked a full blooded 4 channel stereophonic snarl from Leo.
Joe, instantly sobered, realised that this was serious stuff & definitely not associated with man's best friend.
He hotfooted it back to the warm safety of the pub shouting "There is a huge bloody lion outside!"
"Oh piss off Joe, just admit that you are shit scared to face Dolly half drunk. Have another quart & buy a couple more pasties!"
Bill Hunt, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, September 28, 2004 at 17:57:53 (UTC)
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Those in New Zealand congrats on your adopted home's paralympic boccia team winning the silver medal. Ross Flood, "Floody" is my cousin so the family is over the moon. I got an email 8 a.m. today here to say they will be featured on TV in NZ 6 p.m. today.
Tina Magee, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, September 28, 2004 at 14:56:04 (UTC)
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Gary B.Happy Birthday,you will soon catch ME up.Oh!AND Chris Forde, ha!ha.Chris Happy Birthday for the 30th.
Rose sorry to hear about your brother,knew him well.A real gent,regards to all the family.
Sue will send the photos as soon as I can get my boy to scan them and add as attatchments.
Pappy Papier, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, September 28, 2004 at 14:46:29 (UTC)
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In the Northern Hemisphere we're in the season of Harvest. I read this in one of my "Daily Reading" books.
He who sows courtesy, reaps friendship, and he who sows kindness, gathers love.
St Basil
So be it. Go well, everyone.
Rachel Mounsey, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, September 28, 2004 at 14:31:17 (UTC)
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ROSE
So sorry to hear of your loss, condolences to you. It is a very sad time & hope the hurting stops soon.
regards,
Jurina Lang, New Zealand [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, September 28, 2004 at 12:43:58 (UTC)
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Hello there to all you lovely people. Especially Linda Hayes(Dore). It was such a kick to see some names of folk that I've been wondering about. It's late night here in NZ & we are watching scenes of the hurricane damage. Awful for the folks there, they have my sympathies. It has been so long since I heard from anyone from Kitwe and surrounds so would love to hear sll the news from al out there. I have re-married & travel between NZ & UK at present as my husbands work takes us back & forth as the seasons change. He is a cricket coach & we were enticed to coming to NZ by my daughter who married a Kiwi. They of course have huge tussles over the rugby matches, also the grandkids do the same as one was born in CapeTown& the other here in Auckland. Would be happy to give more details if you like just let me know.
Here's hoping to get lots of responses,
Donna Jurina
Jurina Lang, New Zealand [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, September 28, 2004 at 12:38:21 (UTC)
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Rose:
Condolences on the loss of your brother. He was well-known and liked by many on the Copperbelt.
Gary:
Happy Birthday!
Linda Hayes, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, September 28, 2004 at 11:54:05 (UTC)
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GARY BRASSINGTON
This is to wish you a very Happy Birthday for today and we both hope that you have a wonderful day and that you are being spoilt by the family
All the best, love from Ada and regards from me
Chris Cantrell, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, September 28, 2004 at 11:22:22 (UTC)
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OBITUARY
This is an Obituary for my brother-in-law, Schalk de Jager who lived in Chingola for many years prior to emmigrating to SA. Sadly, Schalk, a highly skilled and experienced rider, was killed in a freak motorcycle accident in Graskop, Eastern Transvaal on Saturday, 29 May 2004. May he rest in peace.
Rose de Jager
Rose De Jager, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, September 28, 2004 at 06:29:22 (UTC)
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Tina,
I can't quite understand your posting re-lions - but lions will drag their kill into cover after feeding and may do so together, depending on the dynamics of the pride at that kill. I have never heard of them nudging their kill out of the way, but they often try to cover the kill with earth. Non of this behaviour is co-operative, so it would just be coincidence if more than one - or all were doing it at the same time. Contrary to popular belief even hunting is not done co-operatively.
Doug,
Just got back from Tuli, Botswana yesterday. Seems to be clear there, but the area had good late rains like we did in SA. Apparently Chobe is closed to visitors but Anthrax is a natural problem after prolonged drought. So far six ellies have died. They are burning the carcasses before the cats can get to them and spread the anthrax spores. Whenever they have had an Anthrax outbreak in Kruger, they haven't closed the park, so I think the Anthrax problem has become more scary since the human world has become less stable. Of more concern is the proposed nationalisation of wildlife land in Zimbabwe - see the latest Africa Geographic for the story.
Jilly
Jill Aplin, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, September 28, 2004 at 06:13:53 (UTC)
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A friend of mine just got back from a family reunion in S.A. during which they visited Kruger. She mentioned watching lions at a kill and when they had finished feeding they rolled their kill back together, sort of nudged it back together. Is this a random event or has anyone else seen this sort of behaviour?
Tina Magee, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, September 28, 2004 at 05:47:47 (UTC)
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Keith:
re Mwizenge. Do a google search on his name and then click on the Bridgewater Faculty College link. I will leave it to you to discover the wealth of info on him.
Hope you are settling in well? Let's hear directly from you, mate?
Linda Hayes, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 27, 2004 at 23:44:50 (UTC)
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Desiree I was not going to contact you on the board but for some strange reason I canot pick up any contacts by pressing on your contact at the btm of your message when I can I will contact you I used to work on Bancroft Regards Johnny.
Johnny, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 27, 2004 at 23:36:19 (UTC)
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This site is getting very lonely!!! I would have thought that there would be someone from Bancroft (Chililabombwe) in here. I'll keep trying..! What about Sacred Heart Convent School in Chingola? Hey, now I'm REALLY trying.......
Desiree VanderSpuy, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 27, 2004 at 20:48:25 (UTC)
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Keith,
I think you misinterpreted my August message about a busy month on the message board in July. It was the busiest since March 2002, but not the busiest ever. The busiest period on the board was during the last three months of 2001 (November being the busiest of all), and it hasn't been nearly as busy here since. This month should be a bit busier than July, but not much, and quite a bit busier than August. I plan to post some statistics on the archives page at some point while I am working on the new message board.
As for displaying towns on the message board -- they will also be available again on the new message board. See my long message below for more details of the new message board, including addressing the loading time.
Glen,
Actually, you chose to emphasise the word "purest" by using it to modify your opening sentence which stated the central theme of the main paragraph of that particular message you posted. It was not my intention to home in on it to the detriment of the rest of your message.
Craig Hartnett, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Monday, September 27, 2004 at 19:37:43 (UTC)
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Keith B writes:
In a previous job my email address name was keithb@….. and all staff had the same name structure which is not uncommon. Did you ever have that??
Morning Keith, I am sure what it is that you are curious about? www.baylighting.com is the address for our business website. The e-mail address I have chosen is baylight@baylighting.com. Per the arrangement we have with our ISP, we can have a bunch of e-maill addresses e.g. keithb@baylighting.com, tickeyt@baylighting.com, sleutel@baylighting.com, etc. etc. We chose the address we use because it is (hopefully) quite easy for customers to grasp and remember. If they know the name of the business, they will remember the e-mail address.
Quite a strormy weekend around here. And I thought it was only Florida that was subjected to yet another hurricane?
Chris Tamm, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Monday, September 27, 2004 at 19:00:59 (UTC)
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Craig
Wow - the changes you're working on for this site ... I'm awed at your skill and grateful for your (very, very, very) hard work. Thank you.
Welcome Uncle Herman (Vosloo). It's about time you joined us! Hugs and love....
Juliana Fernie, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 27, 2004 at 18:31:59 (UTC)
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CHARLES
No I am not settling for any one less than a a professor of FISHOLIGY What Arthur knows about Tiger fish you could write on the back of a postage stamp, I have a friend in Namibia who is a fish DOCTOR I will try and contact him and see what he has to say, Regards old pal Johnny.
Johnny, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 27, 2004 at 18:24:40 (UTC)
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Craig, the adjective I attributed to journalism was "democratic" and I used that adjective intentionally since not only does it imply freedom but it also implies a just, orderly and representative "popular" view. To selectively home in on the word "purest" and allow it to imply to you that I meant the journalism should not be subjected to any restrictions is false logic.
All (well for Chris' benefit) MOST of us, realize that freedom's handmaidens are discipline and responsibility.
Of course, you and I have no disagreement on "aristocratic" journalism do we? That is where ONE person decides what others read.
Glen Drake, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Monday, September 27, 2004 at 18:16:22 (UTC)
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Keith B.
What brilliant detective work w.r.t. email addresses. Now the final peice of the jigsaw puzzle's just fallen into place - it's just a case of mistaken identity.
Great sense of humour there.
Regards
Charles Cartmill, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 27, 2004 at 18:14:40 (UTC)
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Lets lighten up a little I sent this to a few of my friends but why shouldn't you all suffer.
duck walks into a pub and orders a pint of lager and a ham sandwich.
The landlord looks at him and says, "But you're a duck".
"I see your eyes are working", replies the duck.
"And you talk!" exclaims the landlord.
"I see your ears are working", says the duck, "Now can I have my beer and sandwichplease?". "I'm working on the building site across the road",explains the duck.
Then the duck drinks his beer, eats his sandwich and leaves. This continues
for 2 weeks. Then one day the circus comes to town. The circus master of the circus comes into the pub and the landlord says to him, "You're with the
circus aren't you?, I know this duck that would be just brilliant in your show he talks, drinks beer and everything!". "Sounds marvellous", says
the ring master "get him to give me a call".
So the next day when the duck comes into the pub the landlord says, "Hey Mr.Duck, I reckon I can line you up with a top job, paying really good money!".
"Yeah?", says the duck, "Sounds great, where is it?".
"At the circus", says the landlord.
"The circus?", the duck enquires.
"That's right", replies the landlord.
"The circus?. That place with the big tent?. With all the animals? With the
big canvas roof with the hole in the middle", asks the duck.
"That's right!", says the landlord.
The duck looks confused, "What the $$££$$£ would they want with a plasterer?"
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Johnny, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 27, 2004 at 18:13:39 (UTC)
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Johnny,
You could argue the Lunsemfwa flows South, and then turns East; but the fact remains Tiger fishing along it’s Eastern route is very good, and I really can’t recall having seen them caught along the Northern stretch. I always believed Tigers were caught in East flowing rivers, but never in those flowing West. We need Arthur to arbitrate.
Regards
Charles Cartmill, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 27, 2004 at 18:05:39 (UTC)
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Linda,
How do you know Mwizengi is black? I didn’t see a photo of him under his profile.
Chris Tamm,
In a previous job my email address name was keithb@….. and all staff had the same name structure which is not uncommon. Did you ever have that??
David Hoyle,
I have just arrived in the Middle East and have been learning formally (in classes) and informally (by being here) about the local religion and life style. You may agree that Islam is more than just a religion, it is a way of life. Anyway, it has been made very clear to me that Islam does forbid the consumption of alcohol. I respect your opinion as a long time resident in Oman but if I’m wrong please clarify. Thanks for that and maybe we’ll even get the chance to catch up as Abu Dhabi is only 4 hours drive away from what I saw described today as “the best kept secret in the Middle East”, Muscat.
Keith Binns, United Arab Emirates [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 27, 2004 at 17:55:22 (UTC)
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Craig,
How come the city names have been removed from our addresses to leave just the country? Vancouver, Canada is much more descriptive than Canada as is Perth, Australia rather than just Australia. Can you reinstate them please?
You told us a few months ago that the notice board postings had set a new record. I assume that record has been broken every month since. The notice board takes forever to open at this late stage of the month. I guess this month the Chris Tamm debate can take a lot of the blame.
Keith Binns, United Arab Emirates [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 27, 2004 at 17:42:42 (UTC)
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Ayub
Please email me and then I can reply with an attachment.
Harshad Kamble, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 27, 2004 at 16:43:43 (UTC)
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Harshad,
Thanks. I am interested in reading your speech. Please mail it it to me.
Ayub Ismail Zumla, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 27, 2004 at 16:36:00 (UTC)
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A comment recently copied
There are some people who just can’t help themselves.
They are just ignorant trouble makers.
Its like dealing with a drunkard – you can’t reason with them – they believe what they want to believe and say what they want to say with no regard to others and that’s that!!!
Could this not apply to most of the recent "posters" on both sides of the argument"
Please guys stop it, lets have fun
David Heaton, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 27, 2004 at 16:05:03 (UTC)
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Ayub / Doug
I don't want to start a religious controvery on the site but it suffices to to say that both of you are right in a way about Hinduism, but, lets leave this website to more generic conversations, if you wish I can send you a speech I recently gave about Hinduism at the Quaker Society in Oxford.
However I must say the postings make interesting reading !!!
Harshad Kamble, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 27, 2004 at 15:32:07 (UTC)
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Fiona,
Please check your email. I have some questions about the bash. Thanks mate!
Linda Hayes, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 27, 2004 at 12:08:18 (UTC)
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VALE Basil Wilson
Just received an e-mail from my sister in RSA that Basil Wilson passed away suddenly this morning.
The Nchanga and rugby people would have known Basil who grew up in Chingola and played rugby for Nchanga.
Condolences to his family
Gordon & Irene Dixon
Gordon Dixon, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 27, 2004 at 12:04:03 (UTC)
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May I refer you all to the Obituaries in Daily Telegraph
this morning on one Monica Fisher. With a bit of luck it will take the heat off the board.
Alec Swan, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 27, 2004 at 09:25:47 (UTC)
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Craig
Ingenious in that anyone can choose to block anyone's postings or not. Thanks for the hard work.
Tina Magee, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 27, 2004 at 04:07:24 (UTC)
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There are some people who just can’t help themselves.
They are just ignorant trouble makers.
Its like dealing with a drunkard – you can’t reason with them – they believe what they want to believe and say what they want to say with no regard to others and that’s that!!!
Ali – I hope you don’t take offence to what they say to you – just ignore them - turn away and continue to post as you always have – with a happy heart - and scroll baby, scroll.
Esther Pettersson, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 27, 2004 at 03:01:17 (UTC)
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Dear Craig:
Thank you for (respectfully) clarifying everything in your posting. I think the freedom to block or be blocked is brilliant! Positively the way to keep all members happy, for sure! And I do absolutely concur with your remark that I was ASKED not censored over Beauteous. I should have worded it better when referring to the comparison. My apologies.
A new era on the GNR is going to be most welcome and I thank you for all your hard work to bring this about.
Linda Hayes, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 27, 2004 at 02:46:32 (UTC)
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THIS IS A RECORDING
Thank-you for calling. GNR management are out of the office this beautiful, sunny, and warm weekend in Vancouver, but we figure there's really only one reason you're calling. Therefore we present some regurgitated policy statements here for your benefit. By regurgitating the same old... umm... stuff (much like all sides of the argument are doing at the moment), we figure we're at least being consistent.
Linda,
I do see the parallels between asking (and I do emphasise that word) you to refrain from posting as Beauteous and asking Chris to stop hurling insults and shooting the messenger. We asked you because it was probably not obvious to you that some people found Beauteous to be insulting or simply annoying; as you have pointed out, you were kind enough to take that information and act on it accordingly. Chris knows (because he has been told publicly and privately) that his approach is objectionable to many here; he has chosen to do the opposite and not moderate his behaviour. In fact, even people I have talked to who agree with some or even all of his opinions, still think he has the manners of a two-year-old and the subtlety of a bull in a china shop, and in that he does himself and his opinions a disservice; people would pay more attention to his opinions (rather than how they are delivered) if he delivered them more diplomatically rather than with a 2x4. He might also get a little more public support for his opinions if people who agreed with him weren't loathe to be associated with his lack of manners. (Incidentally, I'd be fascinated to know how or if he might moderate his behaviour [given that his business location is clearly available on the Web] if he lived in Atlanta rather than Hilo, but I digress.) Just based on statistics (and experience with a former member who posted here at one time under a number of pseudonyms) I know that there is a (probably small) contingent of GNR members who both agree with Chris and admire his tactics, but who prefer to give Chris (and his ilk) a slap on the back by private e-mail rather than make their position public.
Guidelines (formal and informal) for the message board have existed for years; guidelines for socially-acceptable behaviour pre-date the Internet. As exhibited by overcrowded prisons, the latter have no effect on the determined, and if we start "imprisoning" (i.e., banning) members, pretty soon there will be none but the lurkers left. Perhaps then, as suggested by Cathrine, some of the lurkers would start to post, but the GNR is already enough work for us without us taking on the role of cop. Maybe we should, but we can't. Besides, guidelines were resented almost unanimously when we formally imposed them in the form of the Code of Conduct, and I don't think human nature has changed much since then.
Glen,
As I have pointed out on the message board before (just this month, as a matter of fact, as well as several times before that), and via e-mail to Chris, "The GNR and its message board is a service that is provided; in no way are they a free-for-all without any due consideration of the laws of the land, the infrastructure that is required to allow them to exist, and the people who use them." (Quoting my post earlier this month.) Therefore your comparison of this message board to "democratic journalism at its purest" is false, because "purest" implies to me that said "democratic journalism" is not subject to any restrictions. As I have repeatedly said, it is subject to certain restrictions, those being "the laws of the land, the infrastructure that is required to allow them to exist, and the people who use them."
Tina,
A formal statement would require time and effort, quite frankly -- time and effort that is better expended on other development on the site, including development of a new message board, which I alluded to earlier this month and on which I will expand in a moment. That said, we do already have what is as close as you're going to get to a formal statement from site management in the archived Code of Conduct. While this is no longer a code of conduct inasmuch as the enforcement side of it no longer formally exists, it is a formal statement of how we (the GNR management / Politburo) perceive the message board -- and so all of the other personal (but amusingly authoritative-sounding) interpretations that have been aired here in recent days, of what the GNR message board is, are nothing more than statements of opinion rather than fact. There is also the "About this Site" page where we make statements about who is welcome to use this site. Besides, running this and other sites has lead me to believe that even if we did publish such a formal statement, nobody would read it anyway. Also, speaking personally, I find such statements as you see on other sites along the lines of, "... opinions expressed are those of the individual posting..." (to use your example) are statements of the obvious and, furthermore, a cop out on the part of the person(s) running the site who (God forbid) are not allowed to have any opinions.
New Message Board
Glen does have (at least) one good point with respect to freedom. At the moment the debate is over the "freedom" of members to deliver their messages in any way (objectionable or not) that they see fit, and the corresponding "freedom" of the reading members to skip over messages from members whose posts they generally find objectionable, annoying, boring, etc. Unfortunately the latter "freedom" is difficult to exercise because one has to see a post before deciding to skip it, and often curiosity will get the better of us or we'll be half way through the post before we realise who posted it. Then there's all the reaction to the objectionable poster that is more difficult to skip, because you don't know that it's reaction until you have started reading it.
I am formulating (in my mind only at the moment, so putting this into code is when the rubber hits the road) a new message board which will use a database (the same type of database used by the Names Directory) rather than writing messages to a static file (just like the files on your own computer) as happens now. While it did occur to me that I could then programme in a blocking feature, I didn't want to do that. However, this latest instalment of this ongoing debate has convinced me that I am going to make it possible for members to view the message board stripped of posts from members whose messages they do not want to read. Thus, in Glen's "survival of the fittest", free and democratic world, if Chris' posts are enjoyed by a silent majority, he will continue to enjoy the attention he seeks. However, if that's not the case and he's blocked en masse, he'll get little response and so will be the sound of one hand clapping. It will be up to each member to block him (and any other members) if they don't want to read his posts, and so the complaints about his posts or about the fact that one is forced to see (if not read) his posts should cease to exist.
Other features of this message board, which I hope to have in place at the end of October), include:- The ability to view only messages posted during a particular date range (e.g., the last week, or possibly since you last logged in),
- The ability to view the messages sorted chronologically with the oldest at the top or the newest at the top -- your choice,
- The ability to set a subject for your message,
- The ability to view only the subjects of messages, with links to the full text,
- The ability to view the message board in chronological order (as is the case now), or sorted by subjects (i.e., threaded),
- The ability to go back to viewing the poster's more specific location information (town, etc.) and maiden and former names, and
- The aforementioned ability to prevent the display of messages posted by members whose posts you wish not to read.
All of these features will allow people to view the message board exactly as it is now, while giving those who prefer other formats to see it their way instead. I haven't started programming this yet, but I don't see why there should be much difficulty with these features. Because the new board will use a database instead of a static file, it will also be possible to add, modify and remove features as we go along.
*beep*
Craig Hartnett, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Monday, September 27, 2004 at 02:09:09 (UTC)
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Catherine; Whilst I agree with your last posting on your modernistic view as to how things should be, you must admit it was not always so, regarding inter-relationships when our youthful impressions were formed in the sixties. We were all youngsters then and always under peer presure to acknowledge and accept the system as it was. The Scotland I left in 1958 was exceptionly racist regarding, Southern Irish Catholics who stayed in Scotland after the WW2 War, DPS (displaced persons) Poles , Chechs, etc etc and everyone else who never went back after the war and settled in rural Scotland, working as woodcutters and on the Hydro-Electic Schemes, when the POWs were finally sent home in 1949 (After being used as slave labour for three years) From such a culture to Shonaland at that time was not difficult and although a sense of unfairness in the system was always present it was over-ruled by the good life enjoyed by us then. I speak from SR from 58-60 and from 64 onwards until the good life was gone for ever.The missing four were spent in Choma in the Valley from which I claim to have my say, Regards Colin.
Colin Munro, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 27, 2004 at 02:05:57 (UTC)
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Glen.....no I am not batting just for Linda, but for all of the GNR..........the survival of the GNR is the utmost importance to me and when people are openly racist , the majority do hide, Catherines comments highlight that.....yes freedom of speech is important I grant you that........but it is the tone and the name calling ...(racist) that lowers the tone of the GNR to a sad track going nowhere............
Ali Key, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 23:53:57 (UTC)
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Glen:
You have totally misunderstood me and I need to stand firm and help you understand where I am coming from. Doug has said it very eloquently in his posting below. That is exactly what I am trying to say.
I do not consider myself the editor, judge, jury, headmaster, whatever.. of this site. I have nothing personally against you, Tamm, Bridget, or anyone else on this site. I am not trying to get people "on my side" as this is not what the point is about. It is that they would stop and examine how they would feel if the insults were directed at them if they held a different, and yet equally valuable, viewpoint to Tamm's. Infact, I have enjoyed my personal emails with you and would be disappointed if I am relegated to the leper status by you for having my say here. I don't play cat and mouse games like that, and I don't have a problem saying this publicly to you here.
I believe Tamm, you and every other member on this site, INCLUDING ME, has the right to voice an opinion. I, like you, believe that this site is a forum of free speech, that members should be allowed to discuss any topic, whether it is politics, funny stories about their life in Northern Rhodesia/Zambia, sad events that we all remember and which were atrocious at the time, views on current day situations related to Zambia, etc.
I did not, and am not, asking for Tamm to be kicked off the site, for you to be silenced, for him to be silenced. I did not and am not asking for topics to be censored.
What I AM asking for is that some sort of guidelines be considered by the management with regard to personal insults hurled at people who do not agree with his opinion on any given topic. Just as Doug said to you below, you have your say but I don't think I have read you personally hurling insults at any of us.
That is the point I am sticking with and yet which you are choosing not to get.
Let me put this very bluntly, since you give me credit for standing up for what I believe in. If I were to begin calling Tamm a "male body part" because I think that of him after what I read in a posting, is it appropriate on this public forum to begin calling him that? I say no, and you will not find me using personally insulting words to anyone here, whether I feel that way inside or not. Common decency tells me that is not the way to treat someone who does not hold the same view as me. Why, then, should Tamm be allowed to continue on his insulting road. Is he going to be calling the gay members "f...... pooftahs" next if they express an opinion that does not sit well with his manhood.
We all, including you, know exactly what Tamm's intent is when he calls Mwizenge "Professor Ticky Tembo". It is intended to be racist and personally insulting and offensive, because Mwizenge is black and holds a different view than his and is willing to stand up for it. I don't see Mwizenge insulting him back. Perhaps you should ask yourself why? It's pretty clear to me.
Is it unreasonable to ask the management to consider some basic guidelines at this point, or should we sit back and wait for him to call Mwizenge or another black poster who responds to him or posts an opinion on anything, a "stupid kaffir" before we heave a collective gasp and say, "This is not the appropriate word to be using on the GNR??" Should we wait for him to call me or another female on the board by some derogatory insulting "favourite female body part" before we consider some guidelines for where the line is drawn on insults.
Back to Beauteous.. the management told me that they were hoping for local and/or relocated Zambians to join our site and to feel comfortable on the site. To that end, it was felt that while there were many members who did enjoy her and her antics, it was not in the best interests of the site, overall, for me to continue posting as Beauteous. I agreed, and that was that. It would be hypocritical and two-faced of me to say that she is really dead and gone. There are still many people who interact with us through private email. That is the appropriate place for her to be and also does not insult or offend anyone. However, I felt it was appropriate to compare the two situations.
And I still pose the same question. Does the insulting way that Tamm addresses primarily non-whites foster the overall intent of the site? I think he should be allowed to say what he wants, but I don't think he should be allowed to insult ANYONE.
Linda Hayes, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 22:59:50 (UTC)
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That's right Fiona. Ignore the bullies verbally kicking the sh*t out of the loners and perceived vulnerable targets on the playground. Tell them to ignore the hurts too. After all they will get over them. It's not like some of them have had them all their lives or anything. Wow, I used to love swinging on these swings listening to happy laughter. How come some of the laughter is missing now?
Tina Magee, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 22:30:10 (UTC)
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Oh how Mr Tamm must be revelling in the s..t he has stirred up. How you have all floated his boat. Don't you all realise that by even commenting on his postings you are massaging his ego? Haven't you all realised that the best thing do do with a bully is to ignore him? I could get into the debate but to do so would be to give him credibility and I won't because he doesn't have any.
Fiona Gayther, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 21:05:40 (UTC)
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Doug or should I be referring to you as Et Tu now you have renamed yourself. Bwana E. T. Brutus?
I may, indeed, like half of Scotland and much of Wales be related to William Wallace but with my luck it'll be Yellow Dirk the Dog Wallace who rin awa frae the battle o' Stirling Bridge wi his breeks fu!
Is what enjoyment of another's misfortune? Watching someone who's got into a paper fight with me? Doug you cast me into maidenly confusion, she said, eyes downcast, lashes lowered on modestly glowing cheeks. Thrust, parry, paper cut. Actually I'm having fun but I'm not sure to what you were referring.
I still have hopes of happy endings. How nice to finish out Glen's Omar Khyyam poem happily. What started with moving fingers writing I still have hopes will end in friendship with a jug of wine and thou (he) beside me singing in the wilderness - how well depending on how much wine has been consumed.
Tina Magee, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 21:00:36 (UTC)
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Tina
Isn't that shadenfruede (spl?)
Jilly
I think we can leave Heather with Brunhilde. I can just imagine you fixing pangas to the wheels of your landy and sorting out the Joburg traffic! Be very afred as you say! You can be Boudecia.
David Hoyle
How's about Lawrence of Arabia for your reincarnation?
Enough already!
Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 20:15:56 (UTC)
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Tina
I reincarnated you as William Wallace because you are a fighter for freedom, and Heather as Boudecia because she is like a warrior queen.
Doug the happy hippo
Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 20:05:35 (UTC)
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In my request to the Politburo below the bit in the suggested example about:
"They would remind those posting that they are free to respond to or to ignore any posting and solicit respectful treatment of eachother's views even while differing strongly with them..... "
To clarify what I'm trying to suggest is, how about something like that being formally included too?
I still hope for a policy to direct people away from insult and personal attack. I'll be the first to admit that I've gone to both myself with joy, and relish when I've decided to give Tamm and Glenn their own back. But it is a descent from more generally acceptable forms of communication.
OK, Glen, good illustration, your telling Cathrine she hasn't the courage of her conviction - No one really knows that about another whatever they say about themselves. She's posting her convictions which takes courage. Personal attack is just being back on the playground saying: "You're a stinky-poo crybaby, nyah, nyah, nyah". Recipients didn't like it then and we are adults now. Why DON'T we get beyond the playground fights and the bullying that has gone on on this site and how do our leaders think we should? Do they think we should? Have they any input?
Tina Magee, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 19:58:59 (UTC)
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David Hoyle
Is it your contention that Muslims are allowed to eat pork and drink alcohol? Enlighten us laughing boys. No-one will censor you.
Chris Drake
Tinker, everyone is welcome to express different opinions, as Glen manages to do very forcefully without being insulting.
Glen
You refer to young days in Zambia and the way we used to be fairly rough and ready with our bar room banter. You know full well that when somebody crossed the line and became insulting he usually got a fat clip around the ear. Now we cannot do that on the Internet, so when people take advantage of this to be insulting, it is just plain cowardice. Now we are a bit more mature than we were as youngsters and must moderate our language to suit the situation.
I have had a go back at Chris on his own terms by calling him Sambo Tammbo to try and make him aware of what he is doing. He doesn’t seem to enjoy being on the receiving end for a change.
Nobody wants to limit Chris’s freedom of expression; in fact he is trying to limit other peoples freedom of expression with his abuse. Mwizenge has by far excelled Chris’s academic achievements under the terrific disadvantages that existed for him in Northern Rhodesia’s discriminatory education system. For Chris to refer to him as Tickey Tembo as if he was his servant is to add insult to injury and is racialism of the worst order. This is in line with houtless Hilo and hepeny etc. Mwizenge’s reply showed he was a person of far higher restraint and culture than Chris.
You replied to Mwizenge and hammered his posting point by point without becomeing abusive. This is an example for Chris to follow. One can differ quite harshly without having to be insulting, in fact you can make your point even better.
It is a shame that Chris does not give us more information about his history on the member list. I should imagine that working in a bank he met very few Africans apart from his domestic servants and having left Africa in 1964 (?) never met any Africans on any other terms than master to servant. He reminds me of the proverbial Sandton Kugel who thinks she knows all about the Africans because her housemaid told her so.
Every day I listen to SABC radio talk shows that are often polluted with racist anti-white garbage and that pisses me off, now on this board Chris subjects us to that same Crap in reverse. It is not acceptable, from either side!
By the way you are promoted / demoted to Nero!
Cheers - Brutus
Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 19:57:40 (UTC)
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Would it not be awfull if we all thought the same. EH!
Boet.
Chris Drake
Christopher Drake, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 18:16:26 (UTC)
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When two friends of shared interests get together they discuss the things they care deeply about so for Linda and me this weekend a major topic was the GNR. If you hadn't already got that point the sentiments she expressed are joint for us both.
Doug Grewar once said of me that I love a good fight and so I do! I wade joyfully into causes. But even there, as far as humanly possible I want to fight fair, and here and in email I adore good natured, witty (? - hopefully!) debate and would prefer never to have to go beyond that. Incidentally Charlie thanks for your comment on my "wicked" sense of humour ;-)
So the questions have been brought up again and the GNR Leadership will do whatever they decide to do.
Already stated what this member would really like via Linda's postings.
Whatever else, I'm asking, for one, would the politburo consider putting up a permanent statement on their policy for this site? I.e. just to provide you with an example (until they change the tacit understanding that we are free to post or step round the hippo and all other types of perceived kak), .......say FORMALLY for any who stop to read or would-be new posters - that opinions expressed are those of the individual posting and it is the policy of this site to allow all posts. They would remind those posting that they are free to respond to or to ignore any posting and solicit respectful treatment of eachother's views even while differing strongly with them.....
That way if nothing else people who find this site can be warned and many of us don't have to bow our heads in shame at association with some postings.
And now for something completely different:
A blonde goes into a department store and
tells the salesman she wants a pair of pink curtains. He
assures her they have a good selection of pink curtains.
The salesman asks, "What size do you need?"
She says, "just 15 inches square."
He exclaims, "15 INCHES! What are they for?"
She says, "It's not for a room, it's for my
computer monitor."
The salesman tells her:
"Miss, computers do not need curtains."
The blonde says, "HELLOOOOOO... I've got Windows!!"
(P.S. Mine are 15" x 19" made out of chitenge cloth Linda just mysteriously happened to have with her on her visit, and I'm a redhead.)
Tina Magee, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 18:11:29 (UTC)
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"Second Cabinet of the next exile Government of Rhodesia 2002-2006" .
This internet site lists the Right Honourable Sir Chris Tamm as being the "Counsular General of Hawai".
At the end of the site is an advert requesting readers to join "THE RHODESIAN INDABA" with a proviso :
" Lefties, Commies and Whingers welcome too, we run out of targets damn quick"!
I suppose anyone who disagrees with the likes of Sir Tamm falls in the above category!
I wonder where he got his Knighthood from?
Any suggestions? Nothing personal Sir! Just fascinated! I guess everybody has a dream..this one is seems quite different from that of Martin Luthers!!
Ayub Ismail Zumla, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 17:51:56 (UTC)
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All.
The world is made up of strong and/or weak people. To take the decision to post on this Message Board puts one in the former. As a friend of mine once said "If you can't stand the heat don't come into the kitchen".
I have seen several postings about alcohol and the Muslim faith and as I live in this neck of the woods I really do have to say my bit.
If it is thought that Muslims are not allowed alcohol then that proves to me how little is known about the people that you dear members by supporting Bush and Blair are trying to wipe off the face of this earth.
I will answer the comics/laughing boys re silly bacon/pork comments later, that is if I am not censored.
David Hoyle, Oman [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 17:48:23 (UTC)
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Cathrine,
Mwizenge (Thursday, May 06, 2004 at 14:45:06) as part of his vilification re the continuing use of a Northern Rhodesia "lingua franca" said :
"any animal that consistently and deliberately poisons and muddies the public pristine drinking water, that is the GNR message board, such that others walk away with thirst in disgust should be removed permanently or barred from coming to the well. "
To which you responded (Thursday, May 06, 2004 at 18:30:25) :
"Thank you, Mwizenge! I have been looking for an authoritative, knowledgeable, insightful, and thoughtful posting on this subject. You've given it."
Gradually, we’ve watched terms like Beauteous Matwetwe and the use of the “lingua franca” being either disbanded or being used with less and less frequency.
You must be very satisfied with yourself. Hey?
Your :
“Probably because I am making up for times in my life when I did stand back and watch bullies and nasties dominate and I did or said nothing in support of those who were brave and on the side of the angels.” as a reason for not contributing much to GNR :
is simply a variation of Linda’s :
“Just about everybody, including me, loves lively discussions, but people don't come out in droves to watch bar fights or get hit by flying glass.”
and is just as melodramatic but the difference between her and you is that she does have the courage of her convictions and lets people know it! You, apparently, see safety by hiding in the ranks of “silent majority”. Sorta like not voting. Hey? Thereby avoiding the risks of "guilt by association". Association to whom? The Bullies, The Nasties or The Angels?
Not to worry – it is obvious that you continue to at least read GNR’s postings. And as our celebrated Martha Stewart would say :
“That’s a good thing!”
Glen Drake, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 17:18:08 (UTC)
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I wonder how many readers out there are like me and no longer post because we don't want to be associated with a few nasty, racist types who use this board as a place to air their out-dated, ill-conceived prejudices from the middle of the last century.
It's really a pity. I know my recent return visits to Zambia are in large part due to information found on this site. And the renewal of old friendships has been priceless. My reading list too has benefited greatly by what others have recommended or mentioned. But because I think there is something to be said in the adage, "You are known by the company you keep", I prefer to keep my name off the board as much as possible. I would feel embarrased to think my children could google my name and come up with their mother's name associated with the likes of Chris Tamm.
So, you ask, why do I post now? Probably because I am making up for times in my life when I did stand back and watch bullies and nasties dominate and I did or said nothing in support of those who were brave and on the side of the angels.
No, I don't want to debate the merits of free speech. Call me chicken! But I do want to thank those who keep this site going and I hope it can continue.
Kind regards,
Cathrine Nelson, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 16:04:43 (UTC)
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By the way, Beauteous Matwetwe was before I discovered the GNR but I have read bits in the archives and think they are brilliant. I was not aware that anyone had found her offensive!?
Lesley
Lesley Billany, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 16:02:34 (UTC)
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Doug,
The reason is that one sacrifices some things (wine etc) in this life..and be rewarded with... in the next life!!
I think in Hinduism the life cycles relating to reincarnation run into several millions. Perhaps Harshad or someone out there can enlighten us. One thing for sure.. Beef is out; infact Hinduisn requires one to be a Vegan. So all us Braii lovers.....it may be difficult for us!
Ayub Ismail Zumla, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 16:02:07 (UTC)
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Ali,
I see you’re batting for Linda.
You may not have noticed, but Chris Tamm is quite capable of defending himself. You may not agree with his tactics but guess what? He is entitled to them.
I’m a little bit taken back by your revelation of what Chris reads. You’re not looking down the road at having certain books burned are you?
But this isn’t about Chris Tamm. Is it?
What I find most interesting about both you and Linda is that you really have NO idea about what a forum like this stands for.
Allow me to tell you.
This forum stands for democratic journalism at its purest. Here, as a writer, one self declares one’s independence. We don’t have to deal with an editor (Linda) and we don’t have to deal with a publisher (Ali). The great part about it is that if one ends up as a successful writer, one ends up with the most readers.
For all you know, Chris writes to please a handful of people (Linda) and he is not interested in pushing a particular type of venture (Ali) – as a contributor he doesn't have to deal with “seals” of approval in order to be recognized.
We’re talking FREEDOM.
So in between your well intentioned comments about certain type of postings of which you don’t approve – look down the line and see the price you’re eventually going to pay should you be granted your “immediate gratification.”
Glen Drake, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 15:56:42 (UTC)
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Glen,
You got me wrong. Nothing to do with slavery. This phenomenon of workers in sweatshops etc is not enforced labour. The participants are willing as they too seek to make a living. And of course shackles,whips and ghastly stuff like that don't come into the equation. If you think the UK businesses are having an easy time at present then may I refer you to the fact that many of them are taking their production facilities, call-centres etc to places like India where the labour is cheaper. Many businesses/farms that are surviving at present do so on the basis of this new labour.And if you think the UK authorities are doing their utmost to stem this rapid flow of illegal immigrants than you are sadly mistaken! Perhaps you need to go to places like Calais and observe for yourself how easily these poor souls jump on trains heading to the UK. The police have modern computerised cameras that can detect my Car Tax Disc from a distance of 300 meters;with my car travelling at 70 MPH on a busy motorway...and they cannot control the flow of immigrants who jump trains openly, in broad daylight? Now you tell me if a blind eye is not being turned. You seem to be of the opinion that I or anyone living in a Western country (of immigrant origin) has no right to criticise the Government....now I hope you remember that the vast majority of Americans are immigrants and have their origins elswhere! Now should they not criticise their Governments..or should the Native Red Indians be given the sole right to do so!
Doug..
I read something about 400 Bangladeshi workers being deported from Namibia last week for criticising their conditions of work. The report mentioned they were employed by a factory producing Sports goods for a well-known American company. You heard about this?
Ayub Ismail Zumla, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 15:46:13 (UTC)
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By the way, Glen, as I have just illustrated in my private email to you, the way in which you responded to Ayub below is without malice and insult. You are stating your opinion, as you are entitled to. That is the whole point I am making. Why is it necessary for Tamm to insult the person rather than sticking to addressing the topic. That is the question. I have no problem with him as a person with an opinion. Just as I have no problem with what Bridget said below. My problem is with personal insults. This site is not intended to be operated that way, if I understand the intent of the site correctly.
Linda Hayes, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 15:45:39 (UTC)
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Glen and anyone else who did not take the time to read my posting correctly..
I said I am NOT aiming for censorship. I DO believe that everyone is entitled to their say about any subject whatsoever on this site. I DID say that if we all had the same political opinions it would be a boring world. At least give me credit for some intelligence here. You, especially, Glen. You should know better after things we have discussed in emails..
This is NOT about pettiness at all. For goodness sakes, I am a woman of 51 years old, not a teenager. I DON"T need your approval or anyone else's.
This is about setting some guidelines about personal insulting and how we treat each other on the board, while we discuss WHATEVER our personal views may be.
And, another thing. If I WANTED to bring Beauteous back, I would have long ago. But the common decency in me prevailed as I did not want anyone on this site to feel offended. Now why doesn't that though process enter your mind, or Tamm's mind. Don't you care about the feelings of others? That is all I was trying to get people to see. That is what I feel we must look at and discuss. Topics are not important. What is important is that people should be treated decently. Just about everybody, including me, loves lively discussions, but people don't come out in droves to watch bar fights or get hit by flying glass.
Linda Hayes, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 15:26:16 (UTC)
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Glen , may I put it to you.......Linda does not belittle people the way Tamm does........it is the insulting manner that he uses that upsets a lot of people, Linda for one NEVER puts people down, and is never racist......where I can say Tamm is........oh and if you have a read of the "Indaba" that he is comfortable with, you will find that is really white supremist trash whereas the GNR accepts all race and creeds ....... oh and the language that is used there is never used on this site.......
Ali Key, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 14:34:54 (UTC)
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Doug,
Et tu Brute?
Glen Drake, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 14:34:41 (UTC)
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Well said Glen Drake. The reason I am addicted to the letters and comment pages in newspapers is that I love to know what other people think. If I agree with them it reinforces my opinion and if I don't it gives me something to think about and either reinforces my opinion even more or leads me to modify it. I also obsessively loathe political correctness and no-one being allowed to go against the currently fashionable flow of opinion even when it is deeply flawed. I think everything should be examined and questioned and this is done by people who are often prepared to express unpopular views.
Lesley
Lesley Billany, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 14:32:23 (UTC)
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Ayub,
It was Mwizenge who brought to our attention the plight of slaves in the U.S.A. and now you are telling us about the benefit provided the UK by illegal immigrants working for next to nothing in “sweatshops, restaurants and farms.”
I hope there isn’t an evil plan out there, somewhere, being set in place which will allow for precedents in another future bout of “slavery” claims. After all, much of the guilt now being experienced by modern American society surrounds the Afro-American slavery issue. Yes, yes, yes, we all know it was outlawed a long, long time ago. So what?
One would hate to think that history is about to repeat itself, but this time, in the UK?
Sorry for being a paranoiac – but as I said to Mwizenge, I'm just wondering where the accusing finger is going to be pointed.
Wait a bit . . . . . . .
I’ve just figured it out! It’s all about the money!
That’s it!
It is just another scam by those devilishly clever Nigerians. You know . . . . the ones who are trying to put millions and millions of unclaimed dollars into my bank account.
Glen Drake, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 14:31:33 (UTC)
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Ali
That is probably an accurate observation looking at the characters of dogs and cats.
Ayub,
If there are rivers of wine in Moslem paradise, why are Muslims fobidden to drink alcohol in this world?
I think the general idea of reincarnation is that according to how you have lived your live you will be rewarded or punished by coming back as a higher or lower life form. Once you have attained the highest level, maybe a Brahmin, then you will proceed to Nirvana where you will exist only in spiritual form. We are also getting there through science whereby all your memories, emotions, feelings etc. will be able to be entered into a computer so one will be able to exist as pure energy in digital form. No messy body will be required. Then we will be immortal until some silly bugur drops the CD.
If you and I can burn a few incense sticks maybe we can get a few things organized. Johnny could come back as Mamie Stover or Marylin Monroe or maybe Henry the Eighth, Chris Tamm could come back as Mugabe, Linda as Beauteous, Tina as William Wallace, Ali as Cleopatra, Glen as Julius Ceasar, Dawie as the Pharoah (lets see if that will make him respond), Heather as Boedecia or Brunhilde, Arthur and Craig as 2 of the 3 wise men (bit of brown-nosing there), Ayub as Saladin, Kenneth Kaunda as Sir Arthur Hone and Sir Arthur as Uncle Ken. No offence intended anyone! :-)
I will stick to returning as a Hippo in the Kafue where I can wallow, blow and fart around all day and chomp the Zambians mealies all night. Failing that Bluebeard the pirate will suit me fine! I throw the floor open to suggestions for reincarnations for our other members!
A plus for Hinduism is that after death you are burnt on an open fire. This gives you a last chance to jump off if you are only in a coma. I am serious! One of the nastier jobs in road building is that when you pass through old burial sites the dead have to be removed and reburied elsewhere. Anyone who has done this will tell you of the many coffin with scratches on the inside of the lid. In the old days they used to put a bell above the grave with a string down into the coffin so the dead could ring for help if they woke up. Ask not for whom the bell tolls etc.
Robert
You lost me in your last few sentences. Please elaborate.
Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 14:25:10 (UTC)
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Linda –Chris Tamm’s contributions to this site are reflective of many of GNR’s readers that don’t have the balls to say what they think. Does that mean everyone out there agrees with everything he says? Of course not. Similarly, not everyone thinks like you do. What you are now attempting to do is treacherous. You’re trying to sow dissent amongst the readers by soliciting support from your equally misguided friends in order to shut him up. I think the real reason you’re being petty is that you’re “getting your own back” having been asked to change your sign-off “because the postings were misconstrued as inflammatory and insulting to some of the readership?" Well, grow up woman! The very thing done to you, for which you give a list of valid justifications vis-à-vis the intent of the character, you’re now trying to do to Chris. Are you so naïve not to realize that those rallying around you now are of the same ilk that found once found YOU offensive?
Linda – you may be petty but you are NOT stupid.
Whilst your past character may not have had “a malicious bone in her body and who loved to make people laugh” you as Linda Hayes feel that you have the right to question another person’s “permission” to say what they think????
All YOU should concern yourself about is the standards YOU set, and please, if you want to disagree with anything anyone else says, you have that right. As you have just done, go ahead and voice your opinion but YOU should also “draw the line.” Don’t trespass the rights of some other person by trying to get them muzzled because of his/her “out and out personal attacks on people, calling them insulting names.”
I really enjoy your writings, they’re thought provoking and fun. Chris Tamm’s postings are just as much appreciated. He has a “salt of the earth” point of view and if you don’t agree with him, he doesn’t hesitate in calling you an a—hole and telling you to go and get stuffed. Hey, the way I remember it, my Northern Rhodesia friends were like that . . . . . . most of the guys were like Chris and most of the girls were like you . . . . . . and if I may say it without appearing sloppy, I would miss you both if you weren’t around.
Glen Drake, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 13:24:50 (UTC)
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Ayub...Doug I once was told, that dogs are reincarnations of beggars and cats are the reincarnation of thieves..........
Ali Key, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 10:09:12 (UTC)
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Linda,
Couldn't agree with you more!
Doug,
My sources tell me that most immigrants from the Sub-Continent are coming from India and not Pakistan! Main stopover place is a town by the name of Wanda (maybe I have spelt it wrong). Some try and gain South African Citizenship and then apply for a UK visitor's Visa on a South African Passport. Others "buy" South African Passports! Once granted they come here to the UK and then stay on..either by marrying someone here or "disappearing"!. Last week the BBC reported that there were around 200,000 bogus marriages in the UK in 2003! But then who cares...illegal immigrants provide the UK Economy with a cheap source of Labour! Many of these immigrants work for as little as 50p an hour in places like sweatshops,restuarants and farms!! So why pay the minimum wage of £4.80p or so!!
As to your lean towards Re-Incarnation...what happens if you come back as a Bin Laden clone..or Kapenta for that matter!!! Seriously, how is one "rewarded" vis a vis Re-Incarnation? Is it related to your deeds in this life? If you have done well then you may come back as Mother Teresa. That would be a tiresome life with no "fun"!
By the way the Koran also says Heaven will have "rivers of wine" awaiting you!!! Maybe no Bacon!
Ayub Ismail Zumla, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 09:28:04 (UTC)
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Linda and Tina I am pleased I asked for a record of your conversations and agree with most of what you have to say, but I do think that having Meneer TAMM lurking in the shadows prevents any one trying to inflict there singular views on the cowed masses who would not say BOO to goose, as for the persons who objected to the dialogue of Beautious with her many admirers should come forward now and tell us exactly what they were objecting to and let the majority of us decide if they had a valid reason or not I for one did not think they had and if they fail to rise to the challenge we should ressurect her again.
I still would have liked to have been a fly on the wall at Tinas Kia at around 10 oclock pm when the doppies were having there effect Love you both.Johnny. XX
Johnny, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 08:21:56 (UTC)
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Hi Ali,
this is Anja, Bryan's shadow etc., read your message just after posting one for my beloved husband. I'll be # 4 and possibly could add some more, agree with you and like to say: some people just don't know how to seek attention in any other way. I gave up reading his messages. Just got the suggestion Chris needs some Epsom Salt in his next cuppa.
I hope this is not too rude - regards Anja
Bryan Baker, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 01:37:03 (UTC)
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Fishy Tails....In New Zealand Kapenta or "White bait" is a delicacy......have you ever tried "white bait" fritters......urgh..just having eyes looking at you when you take a bite is enough ........
Ali Key, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 01:36:40 (UTC)
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Hi All,
Re Kapenta,
1963 to 1968 I worked alongside big Tom Golden for Irvin & Johnson Kitwe. The first commercial fishery was I & J at Mpulungu. The Kapenta is to my knowledge the worlds only know fresh water Sardine endemic to Lake Tanganyika. John Coper-Smith, the Manager of I & J Kitwe did transport live Kapenta by air to Lake Kariba, where it became commercial fishing. Sorry, I don't have the name of the species. The man in charge at Mpulungu was Keith Matuschek, who seemed to know the lake and it's moods intimately. I had to visit the fishery for maintainance a few times, caught some good tiger fish there as well as other species. The yellow belly had to be the best fish ever eaten, but had literately be out of the lake straight into the pot. Also caught tiger fish in the Chambesi, Kafue, Zambezi,Umfuli, Hunyani and Ngesi rivers, oh and Sabi. Huckelberry Finn eat your heart out
Bryan
Bryan Baker, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 01:13:43 (UTC)
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Linda and Tina....
add me as number 3.....the use of insulting names by Chris Tamm on the GNR shows how immature he is........ok we all have our moments in life, but CT's moments go on and on........the sad thing is if you try to enter dialogue with him through email he tells you he rather you debate with him on the GNR......Presumably because he likes to be seen as the bully and gets his kicks out of seeing the responses people give him, whereas debating him privately he does not have an audience!!!
Ali Key, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 01:10:01 (UTC)
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Doug Grewar
Re:
An interesting Jewish site is
http://www.moshiach.com/
and a good Muslim site is
http://www.isvcape.com/index.html
As I understand it Buddhists see all other religions as subsets of Buddhism and embrace them as vehicles which will eventually lead to the understanding that comes after studying Buddhism. Can't say that I have any time for any religion that teaches that outside supernatural force/s created the Universe and continue to control our lives, or, "god/s" that are not beyond praise or blame.
Regards
Robert Worrill, New Zealand [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, September 25, 2004 at 23:07:43 (UTC)
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Northerners:
I am sorry folks but I know I cannot possibly be the only one at the point of screaming, "WHY IS CHRIS TAMM PERMITTED TO CONTINUE WITH HIS PERSONAL AND OFFENSIVE COMMENTS OR DELIBERATELY INSULTING ATTACKS ON THIS SITE???" Is that what we are degenerating to here? And for that matter, why is anyone else who is doing the same thing permitted to continue?
It's one thing to have a difference of opinion about things, because if we did not, what a boring world this would be. But there is a HUGE difference between respectful debate and out and out personal attacks on people, calling them insulting names.
What exactly is the line in the sand here as far as what is permitted and what is not? Is this a democratic website? How do the majority of you feel out there??? Do we all remain ostriches or do we address the elephant (kak) in the living room for once and for all?
There are currently 1761 members on this site. I am speaking on behalf of 2. What do the rest of you have to say?
Yes, this is a site run by a politburo whom we love, adore and respect, but beyond that, isn't this a democracy? Can't we at least put into place some basic guidelines for respectful debate here? It's not about the subject matter at all. It's about common decency. Heather, Craig and Artie, this is not directed at you personally. I respect you and love this site as you all know, but when is enough enough?
If the "new" forum of the site is to allow hippo poop, i.e. to allow anyone to say whatever they want on this site, regardless of hurtful intent, then the question I should be asking is, " Why was I asked to consider, by people writing to the politburo, the greater good of this site and post no more as Beauteous Matwetwe because the postings were misconstrued as inflammatory and insulting to some of the readership?"
I NEVER ONCE said anything hurtful to anyone when I posted as Beauteous. I never put anyone down but myself as her, and while my Zambian accent may have taken some swallowing for some, she was just a fictitious character. The intent of the character was to be a fun-loving, bwana-chasing, trouble-inviting female, always up to mischief, alw |
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