Northern Rhodesians Worldwide
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Message Board
Jill that is bad news have spent many happy hour propping it up Johnny.
Johnny, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, September 30, 2004 at 20:45:05 (UTC)
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All Sports People,
Last night the Wanderers Club House in Joburg burnt down. An historic landmark gone.
Jill
Jill Aplin, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, September 30, 2004 at 15:14:21 (UTC)
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John MacDonald, &/or Gwen, (Ndola/Kitwe) looking for contact with this couple for a friend - Judith Clarke now Horner. Does anyone have any info of family? thanks , Donna
Jurina Lang, New Zealand [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, September 30, 2004 at 10:35:40 (UTC)
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John Milton
Is your email address still valid?
Peter Dielissen, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, September 30, 2004 at 07:49:11 (UTC)
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Tim,
Not sure which of your questions you figured out, so I'll answer both. The site can be navigated using the "Site Menu" in the column on the right, where you will see links to the major areas of the site. There is also a page with information on adding pictures to the board.
Hope that helps.
Craig Hartnett, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Thursday, September 30, 2004 at 07:39:42 (UTC)
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Never mind. I figured it out.
Tim
Tim Fulcher, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, September 29, 2004 at 19:33:50 (UTC)
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Never mind. Figured it..
Tim Fulcher, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, September 29, 2004 at 19:16:05 (UTC)
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Keith When I printed Fisholigy I thought I was inventing a new word I had no idea there was such a title you live and learn.
I was hanging around Bancroft to in 68 and usd to play golf on that course you never mentioned the odd crocodile that used to appear now and again, a great little town, but I missed out on miss Mattress unusual for me, I had a case once there when I was working in my second Job as a detective in the CID, A 14 year old girl was found hands tied behind her at the bottom of the steps adjoining the post office, she said she had been kidnapped and assaulted by two Greek gentle men, after turning Bancroft upside down and giving the Greek population a hard time I found out that her 12 year old sister had tied her up and they had invented the story because she did not want to return to school in SR, If there is any Greek Gentle men who were involved reading this I apoogise profusely. Johnny.
Johnny, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, September 29, 2004 at 17:43:55 (UTC)
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'k, here we go..
Hi all,
Small world! I've been looking for a site with pics and maps of Ndola (preferably during the '60's when I was there), found this site and started going thru' the BB. Colin Gray appeared. Aha says I, I know two Colins Gray (Grammer??), one of whom lives next door. Turns out my next door neighbour of 10 yrs grew up in Ndola at the same time as myself. However Colin is 10yrs older than myself so it's unlikely he would have frequented the bowling club christmas party at the same time as myself.
Colin, who is presently away, alluded to the fact that there are many more picture on the website than may be found at the memerobilia/photos site, can anybody help me here?
Next, I've yonks of pics that I'd be happy to share. How do I go about posting them (no porn, unless a happy childhood counts as porn)?
Best regards
Tim Fulcher
Tim Fulcher, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, September 29, 2004 at 17:42:25 (UTC)
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Hi Donna,
I am sure you wont have forgotten me as I played hockey and softball with both yourself and your Mom, not to forget all the other people who made living in Rhodesia such great fun.
I shared a lot of laughs with your Mum and yourself, please drop me a line I would love to hear from you, and when you are next in the U.K. perhaps you could get in touch I would love to see you again.
Regards,
Maz Martin or Marianne Griffiths commonly know as Griff.
Marianne Martin, England [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, September 29, 2004 at 15:32:43 (UTC)
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Hi Craig,
thank you for fwdg message from Stephen Courtney. Did pass it on to my daughters Amanda and Kerry, think Amanda and Stephen were in the same class in Waterfalls.
regards Bryan
Bryan Baker, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, September 29, 2004 at 13:00:11 (UTC)
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Chris
I was discreetly suggesting that your e-mail address would have been Christ@..... as mine was Keithb@......
No offence meant, it was just a thought.
Johnny,
Spell check on fisholigy says you can only become a professor of fishology.
Desiree,
I was in Bancroft, Chililabombwe or Croaking Frog for 3 months in mid 1968 during my long vacation between 2nd and 3rd years at Uni in UK. Anglo-American flew me out on a sort of work experience (holiday) and I liked it so much I travelled back overland through Rhodesia, Botswana on the railway, and on to Durban from where I sailed to Southampton on one of the Union Castle liners. It was a brilliant intro to Africa. The only person I can remember from Bancroft was an expat nurse whose name escapes me but for some reason I remember her nickname which was "Mattress". I loved the golf course there which was apparently the only one in the world with a local rule about what happens when your ball lands in a hippo's foot-print. You get a free drop.
Cheers everyone!
Keith Binns, United Arab Emirates [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, September 29, 2004 at 12:37:37 (UTC)
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Romy,
I did get your email and thank you very much for your prompt reply. Very remiss of me not to let you know that I had. I am going through a very busy period at the moment so I will make that my excuse.
Regards
Robert Worrill, New Zealand [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, September 29, 2004 at 12:26:47 (UTC)
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Romy - No, I am not related to those Tomlinson's (KZN) at all - I only have one elder brother in CT, SA, and that is it. My elderly folks and my younger sister live in UK. My wife died 3 years ago, and our 2 adult sons are now both in Europe. Tomlinson is quite a common name, i.e. some oke called Tom many years ago had a son so they called him Tomlin (little Tom) and then he had a son so I guess they called him Tomlin's son?? A common name indeed - I think my Great- (x about 7) Grandfather was hanged in public in Kendall, Lancashire, for stealing a sheep, or a pig or something - circa 1763!! Must have been a great chap...... but a commoner!
Alan Tomlinson, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, September 29, 2004 at 12:26:40 (UTC)
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Hi Robert Worril and Alan Tomlinson
I am having problems posting. I don't know if it is our sever or just me - BC girl.
I am not related to Mrs Kloppers of Ndola. We were living in Livingstone. I remarried in 1990 to an Afrikaans Chap in Vanderbijlpark.
Alan, are you by any chance related to the Tomlinsons of Escombe, Queensburgh, Durban. I was in school with a Cathy Tomlinson (older than I) who had 2 or 3 brothers.
Hilton Williams
I replied to your Email and just hope you received it. I do recall a Rosiland Burns but things are so foggy now.
I do have some photographs of when we made our First Holy Communion and can't even remember the names of the children with me.
Take care
Rome (Rose)
Romy - Rosemary Kloppers, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, September 29, 2004 at 10:42:03 (UTC)
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Hi to Robert Worril & Alan Tomlinson
I have been unable to contact you both. Don't know if it is the server or just me being ignorant - a BC girl.
I am not related to Mrs Kloppers of Ndola. I remarried in 1990 to an Afrikaans Chap in Vanderbijlpark hence my new surname.
Alan, are you by any chance realted to the Tomlinsons who were living in Escombe, Queensburgh, Durban during the late 60's early 70's. I was in school with a Cathy Tomlinson (older than I) who had 2 or 3 brothers.
Hilton Williams.
I replied to your Email and don't know if you received it. I do recall a Rosiland Burns but everything is so foggy now.
Take care
Romy (Rose)
Romy - Rosemary Kloppers, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, September 29, 2004 at 10:33:45 (UTC)
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BASIL WILSON
I was very sad to see the notice on the message board regarding the passing on of Basil.
Condolences to Lydia and the boys as well as Hillary (in Australia).
Basil was a very special person.
Ida Pullen, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, September 29, 2004 at 10:33:42 (UTC)
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DONNA LANG:
I can only echo Linda's sentiments regarding the trip down memory lane your posting prompted. I'm sure you won't remember me but we lived across the road from you in Garneton, in 12 Azurite Road. It's quite a coincidence because just this past weekend, my mom (Dorothy Eldridge) - (during one of her ever-increasing journeys into the dark and distant past!) was relating the story of the chicken being eaten by the puff-adder not too far from your back door! Your mother was a great source of comfort to her on many occasions and I know she loved her dearly. She'll be thrilled to get the news that you're somewhere out there - another link to her past which seems to be disappearing fast.
Looking forward to seeing you post again!
Lynthia Nadauld, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, September 29, 2004 at 04:55:44 (UTC)
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Tina....
What wonderful news, I remember you telling me about your cousin ages ago........Congrats to the paralympic boccia team !!!
Ali Key, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, September 29, 2004 at 02:17:06 (UTC)
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Gary many happy returns old mart hope the kiddywigs gave you a nice day give them my love Johnny.
Johnny, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, September 28, 2004 at 23:34:07 (UTC)
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Philip Pain, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, September 28, 2004 at 23:21:14 (UTC)
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Donna Lang
What a lovely surprise to see you on the GNR! Seeing your name today has taken me on the most pleasurable trip down memory lane. For those of you who may remember her, Donna was just about the most amazing world-class softball player ever to come out of Northern Rhodesia in her time! I would not be surprised if Artie can find an article or six on her in the Rhokana Reviews somewhere. Never mind me with my 2X4! This lady meant business with a softball bat. Man, she was good!! But it's not just that I am thinking of. Her parents were the late Ma and Pa Lang of Garneton who have been mentioned on this site before. Donna, I can't remember his name without looking in my emails, but someone on this site found an old car of your mom's in the bush in Garneton and has restored it. Perhaps he will respond after reading this. Ma and Pa (as they were affectionately known to all) coached the Swifts when we used to practice out at the O.B. Bennett Hall, way back in the 60's. (Gawd, am I that old?) That couple had more love in them for everyone's kids than just about anyone else I have ever come across. I can still see Ma's twinkling eyes, and her naughty smile, and don't forget her ever-full Mazoe orange bottle full of hot tea that she drank every where she went. I can also still feel the sting of her hand on my bum when I was full of it.. which was often.. grin. Lovely, lovely lady. Pa spent many an hour trying to help us be the very best we could be as players and never failed to encourage us in everything we attempted to do, both on or off the field. The nicest couple you could ever wish to meet. I miss them today...
Bill Hunt
No fair! You should warn us when you are going to post such a bleddy funny story in future. I am sitting here at my computer, drinking a nice cup of tea, and now it is all over me. I larfed my head off. Thanks!
Paul Cowie
I liked the story just as much the second time I read it. More, please.
Which reminds me.. Phil Pain... where are you?
Linda Hayes, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, September 28, 2004 at 22:28:16 (UTC)
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Sorry Norma I didn't mean that you don't count........ Very very bad wording on my behalf!! I meant that your mother is who my mother remembers..... Please stay in touch. Trying to remember Kenneth. Jar my memory if you can. Its been a long time. I am thrilled to make contact. Thanks so much for replying.
Desiree VanderSpuy, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, September 28, 2004 at 21:26:13 (UTC)
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Paudie/Sue, Ada/Chris, Tina, Pappy, Etc.
Thanks for the birthday wishes. Shucks I thought I had kept my birthdate a secret. Chris Forde - best wishes to U for your birthday on the 30th.
Alec Swan - good to see U posting on the GNR. Hope U R well.
Gary Brassington, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, September 28, 2004 at 21:22:46 (UTC)
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Hey, this site really works!! Just found four names from long ago......! Thanks for replying. Took a couple of messages to do so but what the hell. Great to make the contacts. :-) Seems Bancroft wasn't as small as it really is. Keep going Chililabombwe. David, Nkana was not Bancroft but you are forgiven. My Mother remembers you. She also lives in Durbanville now. Remembers Alan and Bob too. Mary Dye.... not very clear. No message and no memory. Perhaps another name? Joan........ no doubt about it. Thanks for replying. Would love to stay in touch. Norma, sorry in this round only your mother counts but thanks for the reply. Please let Joan know.
Desiree VanderSpuy, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, September 28, 2004 at 21:10:20 (UTC)
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Blame this one on Linda, who sid I should post it!!
Obviously, all shops/garages mentioned were in Muf. Hope you enjoy the story and could possibly find me an A110 or a Wolseley 6/110....my 2 shiillings and sixpence, can stretch a little further now!
Fond Memories of my first Motor Car?
The motoring “bug” bit me fair and square when my grandfather took delivery a red Austin Healey 100 in 1954. That car was every boy’s dream, and as I sat behind the steering wheel, savouring the aroma of Connolly hide, I could but dream of the day when I would one day own my own car.
1955 dawned, and I became the recipient of a brand new bicycle and an increase in weekly pocket money from 2/0 to 2/6. The freedom of my own wheels found me cycling “down town” every Saturday morning, firstly to gaze at the new Zephyrs at Duly’s garage, and then on to the local store, where I would finally buy my very first car.
They had a glass- covered shelf; full of the most beautiful Dinky toys imaginable, but the one that caught my eye was a silver Sunbeam Talbot.
She caught my eye one Saturday morning, by which time the 2/6 had rapidly diminished after the purchase of a Coke and sweets, which left me with 1/6 for the Saturday afternoon matinee, and not close to the 3/0 they were asking for the silver beauty.
For some reason, the words, “save” and “piggy-bank”, never came into my vocabulary and after a week of dreaming about The Talbot, I was at the store when the doors opened at 8 a.m. with my 2/6 clutched firmly in my hands.
I will never forget the feeling of walking through the door, knowing that I would soon be leaving with a new car, and I proudly marched up to the assistant behind the counter and asked for The Talbot.
She unlocked the door and produced “my” car, allowing me to caress it, inspecting everything, from the black chassis to the red interior. Her smile disappeared, however, when I produced the 2/6 and asked for the car.
“No, young man,” she said. “You’re sixpence short, do you want me to keep it for you until next week?” Somehow I did not understand that I would actually have to save up for this car, and after leaving the shop with my heart in my boots, I went and consoled myself by buying a Coke and sweets and going to the Saturday Matinee.
The following Saturday, I was once again there with my half-crown, eagerly awaiting to be attended to, to take delivery of “the new car”.
Of course, I was once again sixpence short, and in despair, as I could see no way of ever reaching the magic 3/0 purchase price!
The saga continued for another month, after which the manager of the store was called, and a deal was struck. I received a discount of sixpence, and finally went home with my silver beauty!
A true motoring enthusiast had been born!
Paul Cowie, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, September 28, 2004 at 20:18:22 (UTC)
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GNRs – True Story, no political Bullshite!
YOU THINK GETTING A COPPER BONUS WAS EASY!!
An old battled scarred lion, who due to his diminishing ability to catch prey for the pride, was booted out the family by a bunch of randy young turks.
The disheartened, hungry, timeworn warrior had heard that the dogs & other domestic pets of the mining camp provided easier pickings, & so one night he left the bush & ventured into the streets to do a recce.
He very quickly became disoriented by the unfamiliar surroundings, scents & noises.
One unfamiliar scent that caught his interest was that of Mrs Reckners famous cornish pasties baked by her in the Mine Recreation Club tearoom.
The Miners' journeys home were usually broken by the mandatory & therapeutic pause at the Rec Club pub, & a cornish pastie gambit sometimes salved one's conscience as well as quelled the anger of one's better half! These delights were always in demand as peace offerings to the wives who had been waiting long & patiently for the return of their exhausted loved ones from the labours of underground copper mining.
On this evening, a practised veteran of the procedure, Joe, bade farewell to his pub mates, grabbed his packet of pasties & made his unsteady way in the darkness to his pushbike parked adjacent to the tearoom refuse bins.
Mister lion was busy rummaging through the refuse bins & causing quite a clatter.
Joe, after drunken leer through the gloaming, retorted 'Voetsak you Bleddy Brak." to what looked like a large stray dog.
The king of beasts took exception to the derisory tone of voice & let out a deep & resonant growl.
Joe advanced & made as if to deliver a hefty kick to the mongrel & this evoked a full blooded 4 channel stereophonic snarl from Leo.
Joe, instantly sobered, realised that this was serious stuff & definitely not associated with man's best friend.
He hotfooted it back to the warm safety of the pub shouting "There is a huge bloody lion outside!"
"Oh piss off Joe, just admit that you are shit scared to face Dolly half drunk. Have another quart & buy a couple more pasties!"
Bill Hunt, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, September 28, 2004 at 17:57:53 (UTC)
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Those in New Zealand congrats on your adopted home's paralympic boccia team winning the silver medal. Ross Flood, "Floody" is my cousin so the family is over the moon. I got an email 8 a.m. today here to say they will be featured on TV in NZ 6 p.m. today.
Tina Magee, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, September 28, 2004 at 14:56:04 (UTC)
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Gary B.Happy Birthday,you will soon catch ME up.Oh!AND Chris Forde, ha!ha.Chris Happy Birthday for the 30th.
Rose sorry to hear about your brother,knew him well.A real gent,regards to all the family.
Sue will send the photos as soon as I can get my boy to scan them and add as attatchments.
Pappy Papier, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, September 28, 2004 at 14:46:29 (UTC)
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In the Northern Hemisphere we're in the season of Harvest. I read this in one of my "Daily Reading" books.
He who sows courtesy, reaps friendship, and he who sows kindness, gathers love.
St Basil
So be it. Go well, everyone.
Rachel Mounsey, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, September 28, 2004 at 14:31:17 (UTC)
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ROSE
So sorry to hear of your loss, condolences to you. It is a very sad time & hope the hurting stops soon.
regards,
Jurina Lang, New Zealand [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, September 28, 2004 at 12:43:58 (UTC)
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Hello there to all you lovely people. Especially Linda Hayes(Dore). It was such a kick to see some names of folk that I've been wondering about. It's late night here in NZ & we are watching scenes of the hurricane damage. Awful for the folks there, they have my sympathies. It has been so long since I heard from anyone from Kitwe and surrounds so would love to hear sll the news from al out there. I have re-married & travel between NZ & UK at present as my husbands work takes us back & forth as the seasons change. He is a cricket coach & we were enticed to coming to NZ by my daughter who married a Kiwi. They of course have huge tussles over the rugby matches, also the grandkids do the same as one was born in CapeTown& the other here in Auckland. Would be happy to give more details if you like just let me know.
Here's hoping to get lots of responses,
Donna Jurina
Jurina Lang, New Zealand [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, September 28, 2004 at 12:38:21 (UTC)
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Rose:
Condolences on the loss of your brother. He was well-known and liked by many on the Copperbelt.
Gary:
Happy Birthday!
Linda Hayes, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, September 28, 2004 at 11:54:05 (UTC)
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GARY BRASSINGTON
This is to wish you a very Happy Birthday for today and we both hope that you have a wonderful day and that you are being spoilt by the family
All the best, love from Ada and regards from me
Chris Cantrell, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, September 28, 2004 at 11:22:22 (UTC)
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OBITUARY
This is an Obituary for my brother-in-law, Schalk de Jager who lived in Chingola for many years prior to emmigrating to SA. Sadly, Schalk, a highly skilled and experienced rider, was killed in a freak motorcycle accident in Graskop, Eastern Transvaal on Saturday, 29 May 2004. May he rest in peace.
Rose de Jager
Rose De Jager, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, September 28, 2004 at 06:29:22 (UTC)
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Tina,
I can't quite understand your posting re-lions - but lions will drag their kill into cover after feeding and may do so together, depending on the dynamics of the pride at that kill. I have never heard of them nudging their kill out of the way, but they often try to cover the kill with earth. Non of this behaviour is co-operative, so it would just be coincidence if more than one - or all were doing it at the same time. Contrary to popular belief even hunting is not done co-operatively.
Doug,
Just got back from Tuli, Botswana yesterday. Seems to be clear there, but the area had good late rains like we did in SA. Apparently Chobe is closed to visitors but Anthrax is a natural problem after prolonged drought. So far six ellies have died. They are burning the carcasses before the cats can get to them and spread the anthrax spores. Whenever they have had an Anthrax outbreak in Kruger, they haven't closed the park, so I think the Anthrax problem has become more scary since the human world has become less stable. Of more concern is the proposed nationalisation of wildlife land in Zimbabwe - see the latest Africa Geographic for the story.
Jilly
Jill Aplin, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, September 28, 2004 at 06:13:53 (UTC)
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A friend of mine just got back from a family reunion in S.A. during which they visited Kruger. She mentioned watching lions at a kill and when they had finished feeding they rolled their kill back together, sort of nudged it back together. Is this a random event or has anyone else seen this sort of behaviour?
Tina Magee, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, September 28, 2004 at 05:47:47 (UTC)
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Keith:
re Mwizenge. Do a google search on his name and then click on the Bridgewater Faculty College link. I will leave it to you to discover the wealth of info on him.
Hope you are settling in well? Let's hear directly from you, mate?
Linda Hayes, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 27, 2004 at 23:44:50 (UTC)
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Desiree I was not going to contact you on the board but for some strange reason I canot pick up any contacts by pressing on your contact at the btm of your message when I can I will contact you I used to work on Bancroft Regards Johnny.
Johnny, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 27, 2004 at 23:36:19 (UTC)
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This site is getting very lonely!!! I would have thought that there would be someone from Bancroft (Chililabombwe) in here. I'll keep trying..! What about Sacred Heart Convent School in Chingola? Hey, now I'm REALLY trying.......
Desiree VanderSpuy, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 27, 2004 at 20:48:25 (UTC)
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Keith,
I think you misinterpreted my August message about a busy month on the message board in July. It was the busiest since March 2002, but not the busiest ever. The busiest period on the board was during the last three months of 2001 (November being the busiest of all), and it hasn't been nearly as busy here since. This month should be a bit busier than July, but not much, and quite a bit busier than August. I plan to post some statistics on the archives page at some point while I am working on the new message board.
As for displaying towns on the message board -- they will also be available again on the new message board. See my long message below for more details of the new message board, including addressing the loading time.
Glen,
Actually, you chose to emphasise the word "purest" by using it to modify your opening sentence which stated the central theme of the main paragraph of that particular message you posted. It was not my intention to home in on it to the detriment of the rest of your message.
Craig Hartnett, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Monday, September 27, 2004 at 19:37:43 (UTC)
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Keith B writes:
In a previous job my email address name was keithb@….. and all staff had the same name structure which is not uncommon. Did you ever have that??
Morning Keith, I am sure what it is that you are curious about? www.baylighting.com is the address for our business website. The e-mail address I have chosen is baylight@baylighting.com. Per the arrangement we have with our ISP, we can have a bunch of e-maill addresses e.g. keithb@baylighting.com, tickeyt@baylighting.com, sleutel@baylighting.com, etc. etc. We chose the address we use because it is (hopefully) quite easy for customers to grasp and remember. If they know the name of the business, they will remember the e-mail address.
Quite a strormy weekend around here. And I thought it was only Florida that was subjected to yet another hurricane?
Chris Tamm, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Monday, September 27, 2004 at 19:00:59 (UTC)
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Craig
Wow - the changes you're working on for this site ... I'm awed at your skill and grateful for your (very, very, very) hard work. Thank you.
Welcome Uncle Herman (Vosloo). It's about time you joined us! Hugs and love....
Juliana Fernie, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 27, 2004 at 18:31:59 (UTC)
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CHARLES
No I am not settling for any one less than a a professor of FISHOLIGY What Arthur knows about Tiger fish you could write on the back of a postage stamp, I have a friend in Namibia who is a fish DOCTOR I will try and contact him and see what he has to say, Regards old pal Johnny.
Johnny, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 27, 2004 at 18:24:40 (UTC)
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Craig, the adjective I attributed to journalism was "democratic" and I used that adjective intentionally since not only does it imply freedom but it also implies a just, orderly and representative "popular" view. To selectively home in on the word "purest" and allow it to imply to you that I meant the journalism should not be subjected to any restrictions is false logic.
All (well for Chris' benefit) MOST of us, realize that freedom's handmaidens are discipline and responsibility.
Of course, you and I have no disagreement on "aristocratic" journalism do we? That is where ONE person decides what others read.
Glen Drake, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Monday, September 27, 2004 at 18:16:22 (UTC)
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Keith B.
What brilliant detective work w.r.t. email addresses. Now the final peice of the jigsaw puzzle's just fallen into place - it's just a case of mistaken identity.
Great sense of humour there.
Regards
Charles Cartmill, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 27, 2004 at 18:14:40 (UTC)
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Lets lighten up a little I sent this to a few of my friends but why shouldn't you all suffer.
duck walks into a pub and orders a pint of lager and a ham sandwich.
The landlord looks at him and says, "But you're a duck".
"I see your eyes are working", replies the duck.
"And you talk!" exclaims the landlord.
"I see your ears are working", says the duck, "Now can I have my beer and sandwichplease?". "I'm working on the building site across the road",explains the duck.
Then the duck drinks his beer, eats his sandwich and leaves. This continues
for 2 weeks. Then one day the circus comes to town. The circus master of the circus comes into the pub and the landlord says to him, "You're with the
circus aren't you?, I know this duck that would be just brilliant in your show he talks, drinks beer and everything!". "Sounds marvellous", says
the ring master "get him to give me a call".
So the next day when the duck comes into the pub the landlord says, "Hey Mr.Duck, I reckon I can line you up with a top job, paying really good money!".
"Yeah?", says the duck, "Sounds great, where is it?".
"At the circus", says the landlord.
"The circus?", the duck enquires.
"That's right", replies the landlord.
"The circus?. That place with the big tent?. With all the animals? With the
big canvas roof with the hole in the middle", asks the duck.
"That's right!", says the landlord.
The duck looks confused, "What the $$££$$£ would they want with a plasterer?"
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Johnny, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 27, 2004 at 18:13:39 (UTC)
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Johnny,
You could argue the Lunsemfwa flows South, and then turns East; but the fact remains Tiger fishing along it’s Eastern route is very good, and I really can’t recall having seen them caught along the Northern stretch. I always believed Tigers were caught in East flowing rivers, but never in those flowing West. We need Arthur to arbitrate.
Regards
Charles Cartmill, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 27, 2004 at 18:05:39 (UTC)
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Linda,
How do you know Mwizengi is black? I didn’t see a photo of him under his profile.
Chris Tamm,
In a previous job my email address name was keithb@….. and all staff had the same name structure which is not uncommon. Did you ever have that??
David Hoyle,
I have just arrived in the Middle East and have been learning formally (in classes) and informally (by being here) about the local religion and life style. You may agree that Islam is more than just a religion, it is a way of life. Anyway, it has been made very clear to me that Islam does forbid the consumption of alcohol. I respect your opinion as a long time resident in Oman but if I’m wrong please clarify. Thanks for that and maybe we’ll even get the chance to catch up as Abu Dhabi is only 4 hours drive away from what I saw described today as “the best kept secret in the Middle East”, Muscat.
Keith Binns, United Arab Emirates [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 27, 2004 at 17:55:22 (UTC)
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Craig,
How come the city names have been removed from our addresses to leave just the country? Vancouver, Canada is much more descriptive than Canada as is Perth, Australia rather than just Australia. Can you reinstate them please?
You told us a few months ago that the notice board postings had set a new record. I assume that record has been broken every month since. The notice board takes forever to open at this late stage of the month. I guess this month the Chris Tamm debate can take a lot of the blame.
Keith Binns, United Arab Emirates [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 27, 2004 at 17:42:42 (UTC)
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Ayub
Please email me and then I can reply with an attachment.
Harshad Kamble, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 27, 2004 at 16:43:43 (UTC)
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Harshad,
Thanks. I am interested in reading your speech. Please mail it it to me.
Ayub Ismail Zumla, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 27, 2004 at 16:36:00 (UTC)
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A comment recently copied
There are some people who just can’t help themselves.
They are just ignorant trouble makers.
Its like dealing with a drunkard – you can’t reason with them – they believe what they want to believe and say what they want to say with no regard to others and that’s that!!!
Could this not apply to most of the recent "posters" on both sides of the argument"
Please guys stop it, lets have fun
David Heaton, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 27, 2004 at 16:05:03 (UTC)
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Ayub / Doug
I don't want to start a religious controvery on the site but it suffices to to say that both of you are right in a way about Hinduism, but, lets leave this website to more generic conversations, if you wish I can send you a speech I recently gave about Hinduism at the Quaker Society in Oxford.
However I must say the postings make interesting reading !!!
Harshad Kamble, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 27, 2004 at 15:32:07 (UTC)
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Fiona,
Please check your email. I have some questions about the bash. Thanks mate!
Linda Hayes, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 27, 2004 at 12:08:18 (UTC)
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VALE Basil Wilson
Just received an e-mail from my sister in RSA that Basil Wilson passed away suddenly this morning.
The Nchanga and rugby people would have known Basil who grew up in Chingola and played rugby for Nchanga.
Condolences to his family
Gordon & Irene Dixon
Gordon Dixon, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 27, 2004 at 12:04:03 (UTC)
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May I refer you all to the Obituaries in Daily Telegraph
this morning on one Monica Fisher. With a bit of luck it will take the heat off the board.
Alec Swan, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 27, 2004 at 09:25:47 (UTC)
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Craig
Ingenious in that anyone can choose to block anyone's postings or not. Thanks for the hard work.
Tina Magee, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 27, 2004 at 04:07:24 (UTC)
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There are some people who just can’t help themselves.
They are just ignorant trouble makers.
Its like dealing with a drunkard – you can’t reason with them – they believe what they want to believe and say what they want to say with no regard to others and that’s that!!!
Ali – I hope you don’t take offence to what they say to you – just ignore them - turn away and continue to post as you always have – with a happy heart - and scroll baby, scroll.
Esther Pettersson, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 27, 2004 at 03:01:17 (UTC)
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Dear Craig:
Thank you for (respectfully) clarifying everything in your posting. I think the freedom to block or be blocked is brilliant! Positively the way to keep all members happy, for sure! And I do absolutely concur with your remark that I was ASKED not censored over Beauteous. I should have worded it better when referring to the comparison. My apologies.
A new era on the GNR is going to be most welcome and I thank you for all your hard work to bring this about.
Linda Hayes, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 27, 2004 at 02:46:32 (UTC)
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THIS IS A RECORDING
Thank-you for calling. GNR management are out of the office this beautiful, sunny, and warm weekend in Vancouver, but we figure there's really only one reason you're calling. Therefore we present some regurgitated policy statements here for your benefit. By regurgitating the same old... umm... stuff (much like all sides of the argument are doing at the moment), we figure we're at least being consistent.
Linda,
I do see the parallels between asking (and I do emphasise that word) you to refrain from posting as Beauteous and asking Chris to stop hurling insults and shooting the messenger. We asked you because it was probably not obvious to you that some people found Beauteous to be insulting or simply annoying; as you have pointed out, you were kind enough to take that information and act on it accordingly. Chris knows (because he has been told publicly and privately) that his approach is objectionable to many here; he has chosen to do the opposite and not moderate his behaviour. In fact, even people I have talked to who agree with some or even all of his opinions, still think he has the manners of a two-year-old and the subtlety of a bull in a china shop, and in that he does himself and his opinions a disservice; people would pay more attention to his opinions (rather than how they are delivered) if he delivered them more diplomatically rather than with a 2x4. He might also get a little more public support for his opinions if people who agreed with him weren't loathe to be associated with his lack of manners. (Incidentally, I'd be fascinated to know how or if he might moderate his behaviour [given that his business location is clearly available on the Web] if he lived in Atlanta rather than Hilo, but I digress.) Just based on statistics (and experience with a former member who posted here at one time under a number of pseudonyms) I know that there is a (probably small) contingent of GNR members who both agree with Chris and admire his tactics, but who prefer to give Chris (and his ilk) a slap on the back by private e-mail rather than make their position public.
Guidelines (formal and informal) for the message board have existed for years; guidelines for socially-acceptable behaviour pre-date the Internet. As exhibited by overcrowded prisons, the latter have no effect on the determined, and if we start "imprisoning" (i.e., banning) members, pretty soon there will be none but the lurkers left. Perhaps then, as suggested by Cathrine, some of the lurkers would start to post, but the GNR is already enough work for us without us taking on the role of cop. Maybe we should, but we can't. Besides, guidelines were resented almost unanimously when we formally imposed them in the form of the Code of Conduct, and I don't think human nature has changed much since then.
Glen,
As I have pointed out on the message board before (just this month, as a matter of fact, as well as several times before that), and via e-mail to Chris, "The GNR and its message board is a service that is provided; in no way are they a free-for-all without any due consideration of the laws of the land, the infrastructure that is required to allow them to exist, and the people who use them." (Quoting my post earlier this month.) Therefore your comparison of this message board to "democratic journalism at its purest" is false, because "purest" implies to me that said "democratic journalism" is not subject to any restrictions. As I have repeatedly said, it is subject to certain restrictions, those being "the laws of the land, the infrastructure that is required to allow them to exist, and the people who use them."
Tina,
A formal statement would require time and effort, quite frankly -- time and effort that is better expended on other development on the site, including development of a new message board, which I alluded to earlier this month and on which I will expand in a moment. That said, we do already have what is as close as you're going to get to a formal statement from site management in the archived Code of Conduct. While this is no longer a code of conduct inasmuch as the enforcement side of it no longer formally exists, it is a formal statement of how we (the GNR management / Politburo) perceive the message board -- and so all of the other personal (but amusingly authoritative-sounding) interpretations that have been aired here in recent days, of what the GNR message board is, are nothing more than statements of opinion rather than fact. There is also the "About this Site" page where we make statements about who is welcome to use this site. Besides, running this and other sites has lead me to believe that even if we did publish such a formal statement, nobody would read it anyway. Also, speaking personally, I find such statements as you see on other sites along the lines of, "... opinions expressed are those of the individual posting..." (to use your example) are statements of the obvious and, furthermore, a cop out on the part of the person(s) running the site who (God forbid) are not allowed to have any opinions.
New Message Board
Glen does have (at least) one good point with respect to freedom. At the moment the debate is over the "freedom" of members to deliver their messages in any way (objectionable or not) that they see fit, and the corresponding "freedom" of the reading members to skip over messages from members whose posts they generally find objectionable, annoying, boring, etc. Unfortunately the latter "freedom" is difficult to exercise because one has to see a post before deciding to skip it, and often curiosity will get the better of us or we'll be half way through the post before we realise who posted it. Then there's all the reaction to the objectionable poster that is more difficult to skip, because you don't know that it's reaction until you have started reading it.
I am formulating (in my mind only at the moment, so putting this into code is when the rubber hits the road) a new message board which will use a database (the same type of database used by the Names Directory) rather than writing messages to a static file (just like the files on your own computer) as happens now. While it did occur to me that I could then programme in a blocking feature, I didn't want to do that. However, this latest instalment of this ongoing debate has convinced me that I am going to make it possible for members to view the message board stripped of posts from members whose messages they do not want to read. Thus, in Glen's "survival of the fittest", free and democratic world, if Chris' posts are enjoyed by a silent majority, he will continue to enjoy the attention he seeks. However, if that's not the case and he's blocked en masse, he'll get little response and so will be the sound of one hand clapping. It will be up to each member to block him (and any other members) if they don't want to read his posts, and so the complaints about his posts or about the fact that one is forced to see (if not read) his posts should cease to exist.
Other features of this message board, which I hope to have in place at the end of October), include:- The ability to view only messages posted during a particular date range (e.g., the last week, or possibly since you last logged in),
- The ability to view the messages sorted chronologically with the oldest at the top or the newest at the top -- your choice,
- The ability to set a subject for your message,
- The ability to view only the subjects of messages, with links to the full text,
- The ability to view the message board in chronological order (as is the case now), or sorted by subjects (i.e., threaded),
- The ability to go back to viewing the poster's more specific location information (town, etc.) and maiden and former names, and
- The aforementioned ability to prevent the display of messages posted by members whose posts you wish not to read.
All of these features will allow people to view the message board exactly as it is now, while giving those who prefer other formats to see it their way instead. I haven't started programming this yet, but I don't see why there should be much difficulty with these features. Because the new board will use a database instead of a static file, it will also be possible to add, modify and remove features as we go along.
*beep*
Craig Hartnett, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Monday, September 27, 2004 at 02:09:09 (UTC)
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Catherine; Whilst I agree with your last posting on your modernistic view as to how things should be, you must admit it was not always so, regarding inter-relationships when our youthful impressions were formed in the sixties. We were all youngsters then and always under peer presure to acknowledge and accept the system as it was. The Scotland I left in 1958 was exceptionly racist regarding, Southern Irish Catholics who stayed in Scotland after the WW2 War, DPS (displaced persons) Poles , Chechs, etc etc and everyone else who never went back after the war and settled in rural Scotland, working as woodcutters and on the Hydro-Electic Schemes, when the POWs were finally sent home in 1949 (After being used as slave labour for three years) From such a culture to Shonaland at that time was not difficult and although a sense of unfairness in the system was always present it was over-ruled by the good life enjoyed by us then. I speak from SR from 58-60 and from 64 onwards until the good life was gone for ever.The missing four were spent in Choma in the Valley from which I claim to have my say, Regards Colin.
Colin Munro, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 27, 2004 at 02:05:57 (UTC)
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Glen.....no I am not batting just for Linda, but for all of the GNR..........the survival of the GNR is the utmost importance to me and when people are openly racist , the majority do hide, Catherines comments highlight that.....yes freedom of speech is important I grant you that........but it is the tone and the name calling ...(racist) that lowers the tone of the GNR to a sad track going nowhere............
Ali Key, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 23:53:57 (UTC)
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Glen:
You have totally misunderstood me and I need to stand firm and help you understand where I am coming from. Doug has said it very eloquently in his posting below. That is exactly what I am trying to say.
I do not consider myself the editor, judge, jury, headmaster, whatever.. of this site. I have nothing personally against you, Tamm, Bridget, or anyone else on this site. I am not trying to get people "on my side" as this is not what the point is about. It is that they would stop and examine how they would feel if the insults were directed at them if they held a different, and yet equally valuable, viewpoint to Tamm's. Infact, I have enjoyed my personal emails with you and would be disappointed if I am relegated to the leper status by you for having my say here. I don't play cat and mouse games like that, and I don't have a problem saying this publicly to you here.
I believe Tamm, you and every other member on this site, INCLUDING ME, has the right to voice an opinion. I, like you, believe that this site is a forum of free speech, that members should be allowed to discuss any topic, whether it is politics, funny stories about their life in Northern Rhodesia/Zambia, sad events that we all remember and which were atrocious at the time, views on current day situations related to Zambia, etc.
I did not, and am not, asking for Tamm to be kicked off the site, for you to be silenced, for him to be silenced. I did not and am not asking for topics to be censored.
What I AM asking for is that some sort of guidelines be considered by the management with regard to personal insults hurled at people who do not agree with his opinion on any given topic. Just as Doug said to you below, you have your say but I don't think I have read you personally hurling insults at any of us.
That is the point I am sticking with and yet which you are choosing not to get.
Let me put this very bluntly, since you give me credit for standing up for what I believe in. If I were to begin calling Tamm a "male body part" because I think that of him after what I read in a posting, is it appropriate on this public forum to begin calling him that? I say no, and you will not find me using personally insulting words to anyone here, whether I feel that way inside or not. Common decency tells me that is not the way to treat someone who does not hold the same view as me. Why, then, should Tamm be allowed to continue on his insulting road. Is he going to be calling the gay members "f...... pooftahs" next if they express an opinion that does not sit well with his manhood.
We all, including you, know exactly what Tamm's intent is when he calls Mwizenge "Professor Ticky Tembo". It is intended to be racist and personally insulting and offensive, because Mwizenge is black and holds a different view than his and is willing to stand up for it. I don't see Mwizenge insulting him back. Perhaps you should ask yourself why? It's pretty clear to me.
Is it unreasonable to ask the management to consider some basic guidelines at this point, or should we sit back and wait for him to call Mwizenge or another black poster who responds to him or posts an opinion on anything, a "stupid kaffir" before we heave a collective gasp and say, "This is not the appropriate word to be using on the GNR??" Should we wait for him to call me or another female on the board by some derogatory insulting "favourite female body part" before we consider some guidelines for where the line is drawn on insults.
Back to Beauteous.. the management told me that they were hoping for local and/or relocated Zambians to join our site and to feel comfortable on the site. To that end, it was felt that while there were many members who did enjoy her and her antics, it was not in the best interests of the site, overall, for me to continue posting as Beauteous. I agreed, and that was that. It would be hypocritical and two-faced of me to say that she is really dead and gone. There are still many people who interact with us through private email. That is the appropriate place for her to be and also does not insult or offend anyone. However, I felt it was appropriate to compare the two situations.
And I still pose the same question. Does the insulting way that Tamm addresses primarily non-whites foster the overall intent of the site? I think he should be allowed to say what he wants, but I don't think he should be allowed to insult ANYONE.
Linda Hayes, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 22:59:50 (UTC)
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That's right Fiona. Ignore the bullies verbally kicking the sh*t out of the loners and perceived vulnerable targets on the playground. Tell them to ignore the hurts too. After all they will get over them. It's not like some of them have had them all their lives or anything. Wow, I used to love swinging on these swings listening to happy laughter. How come some of the laughter is missing now?
Tina Magee, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 22:30:10 (UTC)
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Oh how Mr Tamm must be revelling in the s..t he has stirred up. How you have all floated his boat. Don't you all realise that by even commenting on his postings you are massaging his ego? Haven't you all realised that the best thing do do with a bully is to ignore him? I could get into the debate but to do so would be to give him credibility and I won't because he doesn't have any.
Fiona Gayther, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 21:05:40 (UTC)
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Doug or should I be referring to you as Et Tu now you have renamed yourself. Bwana E. T. Brutus?
I may, indeed, like half of Scotland and much of Wales be related to William Wallace but with my luck it'll be Yellow Dirk the Dog Wallace who rin awa frae the battle o' Stirling Bridge wi his breeks fu!
Is what enjoyment of another's misfortune? Watching someone who's got into a paper fight with me? Doug you cast me into maidenly confusion, she said, eyes downcast, lashes lowered on modestly glowing cheeks. Thrust, parry, paper cut. Actually I'm having fun but I'm not sure to what you were referring.
I still have hopes of happy endings. How nice to finish out Glen's Omar Khyyam poem happily. What started with moving fingers writing I still have hopes will end in friendship with a jug of wine and thou (he) beside me singing in the wilderness - how well depending on how much wine has been consumed.
Tina Magee, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 21:00:36 (UTC)
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Tina
Isn't that shadenfruede (spl?)
Jilly
I think we can leave Heather with Brunhilde. I can just imagine you fixing pangas to the wheels of your landy and sorting out the Joburg traffic! Be very afred as you say! You can be Boudecia.
David Hoyle
How's about Lawrence of Arabia for your reincarnation?
Enough already!
Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 20:15:56 (UTC)
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Tina
I reincarnated you as William Wallace because you are a fighter for freedom, and Heather as Boudecia because she is like a warrior queen.
Doug the happy hippo
Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 20:05:35 (UTC)
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In my request to the Politburo below the bit in the suggested example about:
"They would remind those posting that they are free to respond to or to ignore any posting and solicit respectful treatment of eachother's views even while differing strongly with them..... "
To clarify what I'm trying to suggest is, how about something like that being formally included too?
I still hope for a policy to direct people away from insult and personal attack. I'll be the first to admit that I've gone to both myself with joy, and relish when I've decided to give Tamm and Glenn their own back. But it is a descent from more generally acceptable forms of communication.
OK, Glen, good illustration, your telling Cathrine she hasn't the courage of her conviction - No one really knows that about another whatever they say about themselves. She's posting her convictions which takes courage. Personal attack is just being back on the playground saying: "You're a stinky-poo crybaby, nyah, nyah, nyah". Recipients didn't like it then and we are adults now. Why DON'T we get beyond the playground fights and the bullying that has gone on on this site and how do our leaders think we should? Do they think we should? Have they any input?
Tina Magee, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 19:58:59 (UTC)
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David Hoyle
Is it your contention that Muslims are allowed to eat pork and drink alcohol? Enlighten us laughing boys. No-one will censor you.
Chris Drake
Tinker, everyone is welcome to express different opinions, as Glen manages to do very forcefully without being insulting.
Glen
You refer to young days in Zambia and the way we used to be fairly rough and ready with our bar room banter. You know full well that when somebody crossed the line and became insulting he usually got a fat clip around the ear. Now we cannot do that on the Internet, so when people take advantage of this to be insulting, it is just plain cowardice. Now we are a bit more mature than we were as youngsters and must moderate our language to suit the situation.
I have had a go back at Chris on his own terms by calling him Sambo Tammbo to try and make him aware of what he is doing. He doesn’t seem to enjoy being on the receiving end for a change.
Nobody wants to limit Chris’s freedom of expression; in fact he is trying to limit other peoples freedom of expression with his abuse. Mwizenge has by far excelled Chris’s academic achievements under the terrific disadvantages that existed for him in Northern Rhodesia’s discriminatory education system. For Chris to refer to him as Tickey Tembo as if he was his servant is to add insult to injury and is racialism of the worst order. This is in line with houtless Hilo and hepeny etc. Mwizenge’s reply showed he was a person of far higher restraint and culture than Chris.
You replied to Mwizenge and hammered his posting point by point without becomeing abusive. This is an example for Chris to follow. One can differ quite harshly without having to be insulting, in fact you can make your point even better.
It is a shame that Chris does not give us more information about his history on the member list. I should imagine that working in a bank he met very few Africans apart from his domestic servants and having left Africa in 1964 (?) never met any Africans on any other terms than master to servant. He reminds me of the proverbial Sandton Kugel who thinks she knows all about the Africans because her housemaid told her so.
Every day I listen to SABC radio talk shows that are often polluted with racist anti-white garbage and that pisses me off, now on this board Chris subjects us to that same Crap in reverse. It is not acceptable, from either side!
By the way you are promoted / demoted to Nero!
Cheers - Brutus
Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 19:57:40 (UTC)
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Would it not be awfull if we all thought the same. EH!
Boet.
Chris Drake
Christopher Drake, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 18:16:26 (UTC)
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When two friends of shared interests get together they discuss the things they care deeply about so for Linda and me this weekend a major topic was the GNR. If you hadn't already got that point the sentiments she expressed are joint for us both.
Doug Grewar once said of me that I love a good fight and so I do! I wade joyfully into causes. But even there, as far as humanly possible I want to fight fair, and here and in email I adore good natured, witty (? - hopefully!) debate and would prefer never to have to go beyond that. Incidentally Charlie thanks for your comment on my "wicked" sense of humour ;-)
So the questions have been brought up again and the GNR Leadership will do whatever they decide to do.
Already stated what this member would really like via Linda's postings.
Whatever else, I'm asking, for one, would the politburo consider putting up a permanent statement on their policy for this site? I.e. just to provide you with an example (until they change the tacit understanding that we are free to post or step round the hippo and all other types of perceived kak), .......say FORMALLY for any who stop to read or would-be new posters - that opinions expressed are those of the individual posting and it is the policy of this site to allow all posts. They would remind those posting that they are free to respond to or to ignore any posting and solicit respectful treatment of eachother's views even while differing strongly with them.....
That way if nothing else people who find this site can be warned and many of us don't have to bow our heads in shame at association with some postings.
And now for something completely different:
A blonde goes into a department store and
tells the salesman she wants a pair of pink curtains. He
assures her they have a good selection of pink curtains.
The salesman asks, "What size do you need?"
She says, "just 15 inches square."
He exclaims, "15 INCHES! What are they for?"
She says, "It's not for a room, it's for my
computer monitor."
The salesman tells her:
"Miss, computers do not need curtains."
The blonde says, "HELLOOOOOO... I've got Windows!!"
(P.S. Mine are 15" x 19" made out of chitenge cloth Linda just mysteriously happened to have with her on her visit, and I'm a redhead.)
Tina Magee, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 18:11:29 (UTC)
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"Second Cabinet of the next exile Government of Rhodesia 2002-2006" .
This internet site lists the Right Honourable Sir Chris Tamm as being the "Counsular General of Hawai".
At the end of the site is an advert requesting readers to join "THE RHODESIAN INDABA" with a proviso :
" Lefties, Commies and Whingers welcome too, we run out of targets damn quick"!
I suppose anyone who disagrees with the likes of Sir Tamm falls in the above category!
I wonder where he got his Knighthood from?
Any suggestions? Nothing personal Sir! Just fascinated! I guess everybody has a dream..this one is seems quite different from that of Martin Luthers!!
Ayub Ismail Zumla, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 17:51:56 (UTC)
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All.
The world is made up of strong and/or weak people. To take the decision to post on this Message Board puts one in the former. As a friend of mine once said "If you can't stand the heat don't come into the kitchen".
I have seen several postings about alcohol and the Muslim faith and as I live in this neck of the woods I really do have to say my bit.
If it is thought that Muslims are not allowed alcohol then that proves to me how little is known about the people that you dear members by supporting Bush and Blair are trying to wipe off the face of this earth.
I will answer the comics/laughing boys re silly bacon/pork comments later, that is if I am not censored.
David Hoyle, Oman [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 17:48:23 (UTC)
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Cathrine,
Mwizenge (Thursday, May 06, 2004 at 14:45:06) as part of his vilification re the continuing use of a Northern Rhodesia "lingua franca" said :
"any animal that consistently and deliberately poisons and muddies the public pristine drinking water, that is the GNR message board, such that others walk away with thirst in disgust should be removed permanently or barred from coming to the well. "
To which you responded (Thursday, May 06, 2004 at 18:30:25) :
"Thank you, Mwizenge! I have been looking for an authoritative, knowledgeable, insightful, and thoughtful posting on this subject. You've given it."
Gradually, we’ve watched terms like Beauteous Matwetwe and the use of the “lingua franca” being either disbanded or being used with less and less frequency.
You must be very satisfied with yourself. Hey?
Your :
“Probably because I am making up for times in my life when I did stand back and watch bullies and nasties dominate and I did or said nothing in support of those who were brave and on the side of the angels.” as a reason for not contributing much to GNR :
is simply a variation of Linda’s :
“Just about everybody, including me, loves lively discussions, but people don't come out in droves to watch bar fights or get hit by flying glass.”
and is just as melodramatic but the difference between her and you is that she does have the courage of her convictions and lets people know it! You, apparently, see safety by hiding in the ranks of “silent majority”. Sorta like not voting. Hey? Thereby avoiding the risks of "guilt by association". Association to whom? The Bullies, The Nasties or The Angels?
Not to worry – it is obvious that you continue to at least read GNR’s postings. And as our celebrated Martha Stewart would say :
“That’s a good thing!”
Glen Drake, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 17:18:08 (UTC)
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I wonder how many readers out there are like me and no longer post because we don't want to be associated with a few nasty, racist types who use this board as a place to air their out-dated, ill-conceived prejudices from the middle of the last century.
It's really a pity. I know my recent return visits to Zambia are in large part due to information found on this site. And the renewal of old friendships has been priceless. My reading list too has benefited greatly by what others have recommended or mentioned. But because I think there is something to be said in the adage, "You are known by the company you keep", I prefer to keep my name off the board as much as possible. I would feel embarrased to think my children could google my name and come up with their mother's name associated with the likes of Chris Tamm.
So, you ask, why do I post now? Probably because I am making up for times in my life when I did stand back and watch bullies and nasties dominate and I did or said nothing in support of those who were brave and on the side of the angels.
No, I don't want to debate the merits of free speech. Call me chicken! But I do want to thank those who keep this site going and I hope it can continue.
Kind regards,
Cathrine Nelson, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 16:04:43 (UTC)
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By the way, Beauteous Matwetwe was before I discovered the GNR but I have read bits in the archives and think they are brilliant. I was not aware that anyone had found her offensive!?
Lesley
Lesley Billany, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 16:02:34 (UTC)
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Doug,
The reason is that one sacrifices some things (wine etc) in this life..and be rewarded with... in the next life!!
I think in Hinduism the life cycles relating to reincarnation run into several millions. Perhaps Harshad or someone out there can enlighten us. One thing for sure.. Beef is out; infact Hinduisn requires one to be a Vegan. So all us Braii lovers.....it may be difficult for us!
Ayub Ismail Zumla, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 16:02:07 (UTC)
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Ali,
I see you’re batting for Linda.
You may not have noticed, but Chris Tamm is quite capable of defending himself. You may not agree with his tactics but guess what? He is entitled to them.
I’m a little bit taken back by your revelation of what Chris reads. You’re not looking down the road at having certain books burned are you?
But this isn’t about Chris Tamm. Is it?
What I find most interesting about both you and Linda is that you really have NO idea about what a forum like this stands for.
Allow me to tell you.
This forum stands for democratic journalism at its purest. Here, as a writer, one self declares one’s independence. We don’t have to deal with an editor (Linda) and we don’t have to deal with a publisher (Ali). The great part about it is that if one ends up as a successful writer, one ends up with the most readers.
For all you know, Chris writes to please a handful of people (Linda) and he is not interested in pushing a particular type of venture (Ali) – as a contributor he doesn't have to deal with “seals” of approval in order to be recognized.
We’re talking FREEDOM.
So in between your well intentioned comments about certain type of postings of which you don’t approve – look down the line and see the price you’re eventually going to pay should you be granted your “immediate gratification.”
Glen Drake, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 15:56:42 (UTC)
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Glen,
You got me wrong. Nothing to do with slavery. This phenomenon of workers in sweatshops etc is not enforced labour. The participants are willing as they too seek to make a living. And of course shackles,whips and ghastly stuff like that don't come into the equation. If you think the UK businesses are having an easy time at present then may I refer you to the fact that many of them are taking their production facilities, call-centres etc to places like India where the labour is cheaper. Many businesses/farms that are surviving at present do so on the basis of this new labour.And if you think the UK authorities are doing their utmost to stem this rapid flow of illegal immigrants than you are sadly mistaken! Perhaps you need to go to places like Calais and observe for yourself how easily these poor souls jump on trains heading to the UK. The police have modern computerised cameras that can detect my Car Tax Disc from a distance of 300 meters;with my car travelling at 70 MPH on a busy motorway...and they cannot control the flow of immigrants who jump trains openly, in broad daylight? Now you tell me if a blind eye is not being turned. You seem to be of the opinion that I or anyone living in a Western country (of immigrant origin) has no right to criticise the Government....now I hope you remember that the vast majority of Americans are immigrants and have their origins elswhere! Now should they not criticise their Governments..or should the Native Red Indians be given the sole right to do so!
Doug..
I read something about 400 Bangladeshi workers being deported from Namibia last week for criticising their conditions of work. The report mentioned they were employed by a factory producing Sports goods for a well-known American company. You heard about this?
Ayub Ismail Zumla, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 15:46:13 (UTC)
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By the way, Glen, as I have just illustrated in my private email to you, the way in which you responded to Ayub below is without malice and insult. You are stating your opinion, as you are entitled to. That is the whole point I am making. Why is it necessary for Tamm to insult the person rather than sticking to addressing the topic. That is the question. I have no problem with him as a person with an opinion. Just as I have no problem with what Bridget said below. My problem is with personal insults. This site is not intended to be operated that way, if I understand the intent of the site correctly.
Linda Hayes, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 15:45:39 (UTC)
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Glen and anyone else who did not take the time to read my posting correctly..
I said I am NOT aiming for censorship. I DO believe that everyone is entitled to their say about any subject whatsoever on this site. I DID say that if we all had the same political opinions it would be a boring world. At least give me credit for some intelligence here. You, especially, Glen. You should know better after things we have discussed in emails..
This is NOT about pettiness at all. For goodness sakes, I am a woman of 51 years old, not a teenager. I DON"T need your approval or anyone else's.
This is about setting some guidelines about personal insulting and how we treat each other on the board, while we discuss WHATEVER our personal views may be.
And, another thing. If I WANTED to bring Beauteous back, I would have long ago. But the common decency in me prevailed as I did not want anyone on this site to feel offended. Now why doesn't that though process enter your mind, or Tamm's mind. Don't you care about the feelings of others? That is all I was trying to get people to see. That is what I feel we must look at and discuss. Topics are not important. What is important is that people should be treated decently. Just about everybody, including me, loves lively discussions, but people don't come out in droves to watch bar fights or get hit by flying glass.
Linda Hayes, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 15:26:16 (UTC)
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Glen , may I put it to you.......Linda does not belittle people the way Tamm does........it is the insulting manner that he uses that upsets a lot of people, Linda for one NEVER puts people down, and is never racist......where I can say Tamm is........oh and if you have a read of the "Indaba" that he is comfortable with, you will find that is really white supremist trash whereas the GNR accepts all race and creeds ....... oh and the language that is used there is never used on this site.......
Ali Key, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 14:34:54 (UTC)
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Doug,
Et tu Brute?
Glen Drake, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 14:34:41 (UTC)
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Well said Glen Drake. The reason I am addicted to the letters and comment pages in newspapers is that I love to know what other people think. If I agree with them it reinforces my opinion and if I don't it gives me something to think about and either reinforces my opinion even more or leads me to modify it. I also obsessively loathe political correctness and no-one being allowed to go against the currently fashionable flow of opinion even when it is deeply flawed. I think everything should be examined and questioned and this is done by people who are often prepared to express unpopular views.
Lesley
Lesley Billany, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 14:32:23 (UTC)
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Ayub,
It was Mwizenge who brought to our attention the plight of slaves in the U.S.A. and now you are telling us about the benefit provided the UK by illegal immigrants working for next to nothing in “sweatshops, restaurants and farms.”
I hope there isn’t an evil plan out there, somewhere, being set in place which will allow for precedents in another future bout of “slavery” claims. After all, much of the guilt now being experienced by modern American society surrounds the Afro-American slavery issue. Yes, yes, yes, we all know it was outlawed a long, long time ago. So what?
One would hate to think that history is about to repeat itself, but this time, in the UK?
Sorry for being a paranoiac – but as I said to Mwizenge, I'm just wondering where the accusing finger is going to be pointed.
Wait a bit . . . . . . .
I’ve just figured it out! It’s all about the money!
That’s it!
It is just another scam by those devilishly clever Nigerians. You know . . . . the ones who are trying to put millions and millions of unclaimed dollars into my bank account.
Glen Drake, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 14:31:33 (UTC)
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Ali
That is probably an accurate observation looking at the characters of dogs and cats.
Ayub,
If there are rivers of wine in Moslem paradise, why are Muslims fobidden to drink alcohol in this world?
I think the general idea of reincarnation is that according to how you have lived your live you will be rewarded or punished by coming back as a higher or lower life form. Once you have attained the highest level, maybe a Brahmin, then you will proceed to Nirvana where you will exist only in spiritual form. We are also getting there through science whereby all your memories, emotions, feelings etc. will be able to be entered into a computer so one will be able to exist as pure energy in digital form. No messy body will be required. Then we will be immortal until some silly bugur drops the CD.
If you and I can burn a few incense sticks maybe we can get a few things organized. Johnny could come back as Mamie Stover or Marylin Monroe or maybe Henry the Eighth, Chris Tamm could come back as Mugabe, Linda as Beauteous, Tina as William Wallace, Ali as Cleopatra, Glen as Julius Ceasar, Dawie as the Pharoah (lets see if that will make him respond), Heather as Boedecia or Brunhilde, Arthur and Craig as 2 of the 3 wise men (bit of brown-nosing there), Ayub as Saladin, Kenneth Kaunda as Sir Arthur Hone and Sir Arthur as Uncle Ken. No offence intended anyone! :-)
I will stick to returning as a Hippo in the Kafue where I can wallow, blow and fart around all day and chomp the Zambians mealies all night. Failing that Bluebeard the pirate will suit me fine! I throw the floor open to suggestions for reincarnations for our other members!
A plus for Hinduism is that after death you are burnt on an open fire. This gives you a last chance to jump off if you are only in a coma. I am serious! One of the nastier jobs in road building is that when you pass through old burial sites the dead have to be removed and reburied elsewhere. Anyone who has done this will tell you of the many coffin with scratches on the inside of the lid. In the old days they used to put a bell above the grave with a string down into the coffin so the dead could ring for help if they woke up. Ask not for whom the bell tolls etc.
Robert
You lost me in your last few sentences. Please elaborate.
Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 14:25:10 (UTC)
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Linda –Chris Tamm’s contributions to this site are reflective of many of GNR’s readers that don’t have the balls to say what they think. Does that mean everyone out there agrees with everything he says? Of course not. Similarly, not everyone thinks like you do. What you are now attempting to do is treacherous. You’re trying to sow dissent amongst the readers by soliciting support from your equally misguided friends in order to shut him up. I think the real reason you’re being petty is that you’re “getting your own back” having been asked to change your sign-off “because the postings were misconstrued as inflammatory and insulting to some of the readership?" Well, grow up woman! The very thing done to you, for which you give a list of valid justifications vis-à-vis the intent of the character, you’re now trying to do to Chris. Are you so naïve not to realize that those rallying around you now are of the same ilk that found once found YOU offensive?
Linda – you may be petty but you are NOT stupid.
Whilst your past character may not have had “a malicious bone in her body and who loved to make people laugh” you as Linda Hayes feel that you have the right to question another person’s “permission” to say what they think????
All YOU should concern yourself about is the standards YOU set, and please, if you want to disagree with anything anyone else says, you have that right. As you have just done, go ahead and voice your opinion but YOU should also “draw the line.” Don’t trespass the rights of some other person by trying to get them muzzled because of his/her “out and out personal attacks on people, calling them insulting names.”
I really enjoy your writings, they’re thought provoking and fun. Chris Tamm’s postings are just as much appreciated. He has a “salt of the earth” point of view and if you don’t agree with him, he doesn’t hesitate in calling you an a—hole and telling you to go and get stuffed. Hey, the way I remember it, my Northern Rhodesia friends were like that . . . . . . most of the guys were like Chris and most of the girls were like you . . . . . . and if I may say it without appearing sloppy, I would miss you both if you weren’t around.
Glen Drake, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 13:24:50 (UTC)
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Ayub...Doug I once was told, that dogs are reincarnations of beggars and cats are the reincarnation of thieves..........
Ali Key, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 10:09:12 (UTC)
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Linda,
Couldn't agree with you more!
Doug,
My sources tell me that most immigrants from the Sub-Continent are coming from India and not Pakistan! Main stopover place is a town by the name of Wanda (maybe I have spelt it wrong). Some try and gain South African Citizenship and then apply for a UK visitor's Visa on a South African Passport. Others "buy" South African Passports! Once granted they come here to the UK and then stay on..either by marrying someone here or "disappearing"!. Last week the BBC reported that there were around 200,000 bogus marriages in the UK in 2003! But then who cares...illegal immigrants provide the UK Economy with a cheap source of Labour! Many of these immigrants work for as little as 50p an hour in places like sweatshops,restuarants and farms!! So why pay the minimum wage of £4.80p or so!!
As to your lean towards Re-Incarnation...what happens if you come back as a Bin Laden clone..or Kapenta for that matter!!! Seriously, how is one "rewarded" vis a vis Re-Incarnation? Is it related to your deeds in this life? If you have done well then you may come back as Mother Teresa. That would be a tiresome life with no "fun"!
By the way the Koran also says Heaven will have "rivers of wine" awaiting you!!! Maybe no Bacon!
Ayub Ismail Zumla, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 09:28:04 (UTC)
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Linda and Tina I am pleased I asked for a record of your conversations and agree with most of what you have to say, but I do think that having Meneer TAMM lurking in the shadows prevents any one trying to inflict there singular views on the cowed masses who would not say BOO to goose, as for the persons who objected to the dialogue of Beautious with her many admirers should come forward now and tell us exactly what they were objecting to and let the majority of us decide if they had a valid reason or not I for one did not think they had and if they fail to rise to the challenge we should ressurect her again.
I still would have liked to have been a fly on the wall at Tinas Kia at around 10 oclock pm when the doppies were having there effect Love you both.Johnny. XX
Johnny, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 08:21:56 (UTC)
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Hi Ali,
this is Anja, Bryan's shadow etc., read your message just after posting one for my beloved husband. I'll be # 4 and possibly could add some more, agree with you and like to say: some people just don't know how to seek attention in any other way. I gave up reading his messages. Just got the suggestion Chris needs some Epsom Salt in his next cuppa.
I hope this is not too rude - regards Anja
Bryan Baker, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 01:37:03 (UTC)
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Fishy Tails....In New Zealand Kapenta or "White bait" is a delicacy......have you ever tried "white bait" fritters......urgh..just having eyes looking at you when you take a bite is enough ........
Ali Key, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 01:36:40 (UTC)
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Hi All,
Re Kapenta,
1963 to 1968 I worked alongside big Tom Golden for Irvin & Johnson Kitwe. The first commercial fishery was I & J at Mpulungu. The Kapenta is to my knowledge the worlds only know fresh water Sardine endemic to Lake Tanganyika. John Coper-Smith, the Manager of I & J Kitwe did transport live Kapenta by air to Lake Kariba, where it became commercial fishing. Sorry, I don't have the name of the species. The man in charge at Mpulungu was Keith Matuschek, who seemed to know the lake and it's moods intimately. I had to visit the fishery for maintainance a few times, caught some good tiger fish there as well as other species. The yellow belly had to be the best fish ever eaten, but had literately be out of the lake straight into the pot. Also caught tiger fish in the Chambesi, Kafue, Zambezi,Umfuli, Hunyani and Ngesi rivers, oh and Sabi. Huckelberry Finn eat your heart out
Bryan
Bryan Baker, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 01:13:43 (UTC)
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Linda and Tina....
add me as number 3.....the use of insulting names by Chris Tamm on the GNR shows how immature he is........ok we all have our moments in life, but CT's moments go on and on........the sad thing is if you try to enter dialogue with him through email he tells you he rather you debate with him on the GNR......Presumably because he likes to be seen as the bully and gets his kicks out of seeing the responses people give him, whereas debating him privately he does not have an audience!!!
Ali Key, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 26, 2004 at 01:10:01 (UTC)
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Doug Grewar
Re:
An interesting Jewish site is
http://www.moshiach.com/
and a good Muslim site is
http://www.isvcape.com/index.html
As I understand it Buddhists see all other religions as subsets of Buddhism and embrace them as vehicles which will eventually lead to the understanding that comes after studying Buddhism. Can't say that I have any time for any religion that teaches that outside supernatural force/s created the Universe and continue to control our lives, or, "god/s" that are not beyond praise or blame.
Regards
Robert Worrill, New Zealand [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, September 25, 2004 at 23:07:43 (UTC)
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Northerners:
I am sorry folks but I know I cannot possibly be the only one at the point of screaming, "WHY IS CHRIS TAMM PERMITTED TO CONTINUE WITH HIS PERSONAL AND OFFENSIVE COMMENTS OR DELIBERATELY INSULTING ATTACKS ON THIS SITE???" Is that what we are degenerating to here? And for that matter, why is anyone else who is doing the same thing permitted to continue?
It's one thing to have a difference of opinion about things, because if we did not, what a boring world this would be. But there is a HUGE difference between respectful debate and out and out personal attacks on people, calling them insulting names.
What exactly is the line in the sand here as far as what is permitted and what is not? Is this a democratic website? How do the majority of you feel out there??? Do we all remain ostriches or do we address the elephant (kak) in the living room for once and for all?
There are currently 1761 members on this site. I am speaking on behalf of 2. What do the rest of you have to say?
Yes, this is a site run by a politburo whom we love, adore and respect, but beyond that, isn't this a democracy? Can't we at least put into place some basic guidelines for respectful debate here? It's not about the subject matter at all. It's about common decency. Heather, Craig and Artie, this is not directed at you personally. I respect you and love this site as you all know, but when is enough enough?
If the "new" forum of the site is to allow hippo poop, i.e. to allow anyone to say whatever they want on this site, regardless of hurtful intent, then the question I should be asking is, " Why was I asked to consider, by people writing to the politburo, the greater good of this site and post no more as Beauteous Matwetwe because the postings were misconstrued as inflammatory and insulting to some of the readership?"
I NEVER ONCE said anything hurtful to anyone when I posted as Beauteous. I never put anyone down but myself as her, and while my Zambian accent may have taken some swallowing for some, she was just a fictitious character. The intent of the character was to be a fun-loving, bwana-chasing, trouble-inviting female, always up to mischief, always in the wrong place, saying and doing the wrong thing, but a character who did not have a malicious bone in her body and who loved to make people laugh. Therein, my friends, lies the difference...
I have been a member of this site since around 1996. The heart of this site has been friendship and good-natured bantering, thought provoking, but respectful discussions about our views on any given topic affecting Northern Rhodesia/Zambia, memories, story-telling, connections, improving relations. I understood us to have a unique, soul-felt connection with each other and with a land that has remained in our hearts even though we are spread across the globe.
It has not been a forum for driving each other apart with malicious, mud-slinging and insulting. Everything in the past has always been with an affectionate intent towards each other and which has given this site a uniqeness that we are all inexplicably drawn towards. Something difficult to put into words, but which is felt in the heart. Like seeing an African sunset, or opening a long-lost treasure box you found in the cupboard and rediscovering all those beautiful things that meant so much to you in your past. Am I not right?
How can we go back to that place?
PS Johnny (Bwana Grins) you asked for a blow by blow account of Linda and Tina's talks. We think, in a way, you've just got it! XXX L&T
Linda Hayes, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, September 25, 2004 at 22:36:41 (UTC)
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Hello to Sue C, Linda H & the GNR management
Many thanx for the birthday wishes - had a great day despite the years flying by .....
..... but I do concur with Pappy's remark!
Love to all
Mark Dalton, England [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, September 25, 2004 at 21:35:07 (UTC)
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The oukie from Vryheid:
You are definitely mellowing! I thought you were going to blast me from here to Xmas! I didn’t attack the messenger. If you re-read my posting I said he made some good points.
You disappoint me ou bees. The message/messenger I was referring to was that from Heypenny Tembo, who got his pee in a froth about Ted Koppel on Nightline covering a story of some Zambian picannin ending up in the 2004 version of the slave trade. It was he (Tembo) who got the stick from Messrs. Drake and I. Might it be overly presumptuous that you agree with the illustrious professor?
Meantime, have another Klippies and Coke to help you digest Mbeki's words of wisdom. Does this guy have any following anywhere?
Chris Tamm, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Saturday, September 25, 2004 at 18:02:38 (UTC)
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No canot help with your painted lady, far to many of them to narrow the search to one who smells of Kapenta.
Johnny, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, September 25, 2004 at 17:14:04 (UTC)
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Neil those must have been the confused ones I mentioned.
Michael I have heard some exagerated fish sizes but 30 metres x 15 metres the sizes of the sluice gates even Arthur would not have claimed them that size.
Just to clear up the claim of North to South It is only when the river commencies in the north and flows south, if the Zambezi had commenced around Kariba and flowed East to Mozambique no tiger fish.
Johnny, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, September 25, 2004 at 17:03:35 (UTC)
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Robert
Thanks for the link. It looks an interesting site. I will peruse it at length.
An interesting Jewish site is
http://www.moshiach.com/
and a good Muslim site is
http://www.isvcape.com/index.html
Regards - Doug
Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, September 25, 2004 at 16:58:01 (UTC)
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Ron in China.
I too returned to UK in the late 70's and on went for lunch in a hotel which advertised whitebait on the menu. I asked what it was and was told it was a dried fish starter and as a lover of Bombay Duck, ordered it. When I saw it my first thoughts were of kapenta which I also used as cat food.
I never thought about kapenta/whitebait until your posting, so tonight I decided to check it all out.
First of all Bombay Duck (also called bummalo) is nothing to do with kapenta or whitebait. It is marine lizardfish (Harpondon nehereus) from southern Asia particulary abundant in the Ganges Delta and the Arabian Sea. I think it is also called the flying fish but regardless a must try with Indian curries.
Whitebait are the small fry of herring and sprats and used to be netted extensively in the Thames.
Kapenta also from fresh water, is known as the food of the painted Lady, Limnothrissa miadon and farmed extensively in Kariba. Perhaps somebody who lives in Scarborough can explain the painted lady bit.
Before anybody starts saying boring, boring, I will close.
David Hoyle, Oman [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Saturday, September 25, 2004 at 15:55:38 (UTC)
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Don't know whether I'm missing some joke here re tigerfish....
I've caught loads in the Zambezi around Chirundu, which is east of Kariba.
Neil.
Neil Smith, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, September 25, 2004 at 15:48:33 (UTC)
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Doug Grewar
Hi there, if you want to know something about Buddhism then go here for a start. Incidently, I think Uma Thurman's father is the highest ranking Buddhist in America.
http://www.american-buddha.com/index.old.1.htm
As every leaf lifts up to heaven,
Seeking the sun’s brilliant light,
So you too have an impulse
To seek what is perfectly right.
In the seed of your birth,
In the bend of your spine,
In the light of your eye,
In the heart of your mind,
Of course there is wisdom.
Man is divine.
Regards
Robert Worrill, New Zealand [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, September 25, 2004 at 14:45:02 (UTC)
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Ron
Crushed Asians = crustaceans. Velly good! Solly to be bit slow on uptake! Tell a Scotsman a joke on Friday and he will save it to laugh at on the weekend!
Cheers - Doug
Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, September 25, 2004 at 14:20:05 (UTC)
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Johnny
I will pass on that question to my brother Keith. He is the fisherman in our family. What about Cabora Bassa dam? Have any of our members caught tiger there? Come on you lurkers!
Bones
You are definitely mellowing! I thought you were going to blast me from here to Xmas! I didn’t attack the messenger. If you re-read my posting I said he made some good points.
Do you recall many moons ago I told the story of a Black American woman who was posted to Katanga by the peace corp (spl?) to teach English? I first met her shortly after her arrival when she visited Zambia and she was very proud of being an AFRICAN – American coming back to her roots. On her next visit, 6 months later she was disillusioned with Africa and was now an AMERICAN and couldn’t wait to get ‘home’ to the States. I have just finished reading ‘Out of America’ ‘ A Black man confronts Africa’ by Keith B. Richburg and find it to be a similar story. I am sure you will find it interesting reading.
Another book on similar lines is Eddy L. Harris’s book ‘Native Stranger.’ A strange thing is that most of the white Africans on this GNR seem to feel more at home in Africa than these black Americans do.
Thanks for the good wishes and the same to you. BTW tambo in Zulu means bones.
Ron – nee how or nee howzit as the RSA Chinese say.
I have nothing against immigrants. After all I am one myself, many times over. I always write with tongue in cheek or is that the other way round? I do it to provoke people to think outside the framework of their normal assumptions and prejudices.
I am surprised that ‘ersatz Torah’ didn’t earn me a broadside from somebody. I am always dubious about the 3 Abrahamic religions looking at their violent record over the centuries. The ancient religions run by women were so much more fun. Who wants to go to a Christian heaven with bare-arsed little cherubims twanging harps all over the show? Even the Moslem heaven with fruit filled oasis with blue waters, golden sands and 40 virgin houris each seems to be preferable. Only problem there is the Castle and Brandy supply and no bacon with the eggs. I still tend to favour the reincarnation theories of Hinduism. I fancy returning as a Hippo in the Kafue.
One doesn’t have to be much of a prophet to see that both China and India are rapidly rising as world powers. Either of them could easily replace the maybe 400 million black population of Africa with their own people and they would still be overpopulated. The process is underway already and the new masters will not be so easily removed or as benevolent as the old ones.
I take it that your temple is a Buddhist temple. From what little I know about it, Buddhism seems to be a more peaceful form of religion. Maybe you could enlighten us on the basics? I see you were in the NRP. How did you end up in China? Did you spend time in the Hong Kong Police?
Michael
Thanks for the confirmation of the story about Bill Culverwell. I am sorry to hear that he has passed on. He took me on my first (and last) lion hunt. He was a swashbuckling piratical sort of chap who became my role model as a youngster, and it was because of my admiration for his happy go lucky style of life that I became attracted to farming.
Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, September 25, 2004 at 13:41:55 (UTC)
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Johnny
If you have never caught a Tigerfish east of the Kariba it has nothing to do with the river running west to east at that point.
One only has to look at recent stories (and photos) posted on the GNR to realise that the Tigerfish in Zambia is far too big to fit through the Kariba Dam sluicegates.
Doug
The story you heard about Bill Culverwell was quite true.He did time for it, 18 months.
I have just been told that he passed away many years ago and Betty was last seen in Durban about 15 years ago .She was planning to join Gay in the UK.
Michael Slement, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, September 25, 2004 at 10:46:58 (UTC)
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Ron while you are elaborating for Tina could you elaborate for me what a CRUSHED ASIAN is please thanks Johnny.
Johnny, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, September 25, 2004 at 07:38:15 (UTC)
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Tina could you send a truthful resume of the talk part of your weekend for us all to read please? Johnny.
Johnny, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, September 25, 2004 at 07:33:20 (UTC)
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Doug the Zambesi is running North to South until it reaches Kariba and veers East the poor tiger fish that were spawned in Angola and have swam down to Kariba round interminable twists and bends are pretty confused and disorientated, I know I was when I came down, but the majority of them tend to remain in the Kariba district, (not a lot of option now) but have you ever caught a tiger between Kariba and the east coast?
Regards Buddy Johnny.
Johnny, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, September 25, 2004 at 07:28:17 (UTC)
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Ron
That was wonderful reading and beautifully thought-provoking too! May you and Veronica enjoy every facet of the festival of the moon. A friend of mine who starts subjects but never finishes them told me that the Chinese are way ahead of us in agriculture in some ways. Would you understand that statement and be able to elaborate on it for me?
To All
My boys have gone to Denver to catch a Broncos (American football) game and Lindy Loo Hayes has come up from Austin for the weekend. We have had a gentle, blissful evening talking, eating mangos and watching "Gods II". It's completely different watching a Jamie Uys film with someone who shares an African background. Anyway it's late, she's gone to bed and I better sign off too.
Tina Magee, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, September 25, 2004 at 05:44:30 (UTC)
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All this banter about illegal immigrants is really quite amuzingin that almost every one of us on the GNR has lived in a Borrowed Place on Borrowed Time.
Since man first evolved on this planet or was created in divine image - [whichever you prefer] - we have been creating false barriers, claiming territories as our own and calling all newcomers [inter alia] invaders or nowadays illegal immigrants.
If you have the time to read the book 1421 by Gavin Menzies - a retired British submarine captain - you will be fascinated to discover that the Chinese were among the first to explore the oceans, mapping them by the stars as they went and settling peacefully wherever their junks touched land. See also www.1421.com
So they may well have more claim to all the territories we variously now call OURS - than all but the indigenous people they found when they landed.
What holds us together on the GNR is a common bond of having lived in a wonderful place at a wonderful time.
BUT it was always a Borrowed Place in a Borrowed time.
Even these words are Borrowed from an Australian who used them as the title of a great book he wrote on HK under the British.
Sometimes we cannot See for Looking and cannot see the Wood for the Trees.
But despite a forest of words - nothing can take away the wonderful memories we have of a Vibrant Life on the Great North Road.
It made us all what we are today.
Greetings to you all from China which is about to Celebrate the mid-autumn festival when on the full moon all families get together for a sumptuous meal and hang colourful lanterns in a seasonal tradition that pre-dates modern religions.
Last night Veronica and I attended a talk by a Chinese gentleman whose great grandfather passed his Imperial Examinations in Canton as a young man and rose to be one of the few Cantonese high officials in the Ching Dynasty of the Last Emperor under the Dowager Empress. So much fascinating family history followed by a very simple but sumptuous Chinese dinner at the City Hall sitting at a table below the Golden Dragon and Phoenix that adorns all major Chinese restaurants. We did not eat Crushed Asians or shellfish stolen from the coast of South Africa !
Kapenta is sold here in the dreid fish markets and is a great delicacy to flavour dishes - also called Bombay Duck when served with curries.
Many Chinese suffer from nose cancer caused from eating too much salt fish. So be warned - everthing in moderation
Cheers Ron
From the Temple of Hidden Peace & Tranquillity
Ron Clibborn-Dyer, China [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, September 25, 2004 at 03:42:12 (UTC)
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Hey Doug,
A while ago I complimented you as a liberal cream puff who is at least able to discuss an issue. I wonder what happened this time? You agreed the matter was "germane" (what a terrible term that is!), but instead of getting into the message, you start throwing stones at the messenger. Did you have a bad day sitting on the stoep, sipping away at your dop and dam, watching Vryheid Hoofstraat crawl by?, or were you persuaded by Tickey Tembo (perhaps that should be heypenny?) that his take on modern slavery is 100% correctimundo?
And no, I am not the one who goes by the name Sadzaboy over there in the beerhall across the river. That is one sick dude though. It isn't you perhaps, is it?
Lekker dag hoor. En lekker naweek sommer also too.
Chris Tamm, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Saturday, September 25, 2004 at 02:55:28 (UTC)
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Have just been scrolling thro` the messages and recognised a few family names, one is Papier from Kitwe. I think it was your Father, Frank from Kantanta Street opposite the Italian Club (His favourite watering hole) I will be in Zambia in November to visir one of my Daughters Amanda and her Husband Rory Robertson (and my Grand Children) from Umvurwi Zim Hope to meet up with some old friends there and I hope here.
This is my first posting
Stephen-James Murray, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, September 24, 2004 at 20:52:23 (UTC)
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Mwizenge Elephant (Tembo)’s posting about slavery was germane in that it was referring to Zambians who had been enslaved in the USA. Slavery is evil regardless of what may be written in the gentile’s ersatz torah (bible).
Tembo’s fault, maybe, was to frame his posting in an accusatory manner, at which Glen took umbrage and came out on his V8 ox wagon with all guns blazing.
Mr. Bones or Sambo Tammbo, the Grand Dragon of the Hilo chapter of the Kak Klux Klan, the GNR’s wannabe verkrampte, jumped on the ox wagon and in his usual abusive and abrasive manner proceeded to blow out his bullshit, including handing out funny nicknames. How do you like you own medicine, Bones?
Chris, old fellow, when are you going to mellow? What is your nom de plume in the Indaba shebeen? Are you Sadzaboy? Just change it to Sambo Tammbo! As for Mbeki’s brew’s opinions, which are diametrically opposed to Thabo’s, this just shows you what a good democracy we have in South Africa. Anybody can blow out the bull, just like on this message board. I must admit though, he made some good points.
As Ken Fernie very aptly said, “Enough already!”
Johnny Green states …not a lot of people realized Tiger Fish are only found in Zambian rivers that run from North to South.
Johnny
I always thought the Zambezi at Kariba ran West to East?
Ayub
Maybe some of the Chinese entering South Africa are coming in legally but I am sure with our corrupt Home Affairs officials most of them are here illegally. The criminal Tongs that make the Mafia look like a benevolent society, pay for poached perlemoen (abalone) and shark fins with drugs. The ones who set up factories mostly pay their workers far below the government rate and break most of the labour regulations. How do they get away with it? By bribery and threats. In Kenya they used to say, “Why hire a lawyer when you can buy the magistrate.” Here they just gun down the magistrate or prosecutor or labour official who is causing a problem.
Another group that is flooding in are the Pakistanis. A recent localized small investigation found that the Home Affairs Department had married several hundred African women to foreigners, without their knowledge. The foreigners had then got South African citizenship. The problem arises when the women tried to get a marriage license and found that they were already married to a bin Ladin clone.
Linda, just imagine a Beauteous bin Ladin or a Beauteous Chong. By the red beard of the prophet, the mind boggles! Carte Blanch TV program delivered one of the ‘brides’ to her husband’s place of business complete with suitcases and 2 by 4. The poor little chap nearly had a curried cadenza when she announced she was moving in with him unless he paid her R50, 000 in damages.
Our South African Asians are fine people and the Moslems I know are very gentle people but I am not so sure about the new lot.
As for the Chinese cockling, they seem to be quite good at that. After all they didn’t get 1.2 billion Chinese without a whole lot of cockling.
Markie will buy his way out of his problems, if things go as usual. Money talks, bullshit walks.
Ladies, remember all that clitoris is gold.
Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, September 24, 2004 at 20:02:59 (UTC)
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Anyone from Chililabombwe (Bancroft)?? Small town in North Zambia but grrrreat people that live (lived) there. Would love to hear from you.
Desiree VanderSpuy, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, September 24, 2004 at 18:48:15 (UTC)
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Glen,
I thought I would wake you up!!
Now... don't forget the old Chinese proverb:
"Man who put hands in pocket, feel cocky all day"
My premise is based on the fact that new immigrants tend to bring with them a positive work ethic. History has proved that. Hence, the arrival of the Chinese should benefit SA. Nothing sinister in my comments about the Chinese.We have a large Chinese Community in Manchester and they (as is the case with other immigrants communities in the UK) do work hard. Thats what I have observed. I suppose its the same with the USA. You must observe similar levels of work ethic with new immigrants.
Chris Tamm,
If you need to know about what the GRZ is doing about trafficking/improving morals, I suggest you write to the President of Zambia ,c/o State House, Lusaka. I am sure he will reply. Let me know when he replies.
Doug,
Whats up with the Mark Thatcher situation? Not much in the news here lately.
Ayub Ismail Zumla, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, September 24, 2004 at 17:45:29 (UTC)
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The double decker buses in Lusaka - isn't one of them still parked at the London Bus restaurant and used as part of the restaurant? Don't fancy being a waiter there and having to take food & drinks upstairs! There again, don't fancy being a waiter anywhere....
Lizd, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, September 24, 2004 at 17:44:35 (UTC)
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No Bill not North And South they only run NORTH TO SOUTH the other rivers are full of old bicycle frames etc.
Johnny, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, September 24, 2004 at 17:12:10 (UTC)
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(Tiger Fish)
Cricket pitches also run north-south. When Kuala Lumpur hosted the Commonwealth games in about 1998 the ICC (or whoever the governing body was) went out to give the brand new ground the stamp of approval. Everything was just fantastic except - the ground ran in an east/west direction and you just can't play cricket on a pitch like that. They did manage to fix it in time but I think the stands werethen all in the wrong place.
Kapenta.
My memory of kapenta was buying it frozen and cooking it up for my dog (Enoch) in Zambia. It stunk and was disgusting stuff but was fed to all the dogs. Then after 3 years in Zambia I found it elegantly presented as a nibbly with drinks in the poshest London hotels under the name of whitebait........ a rose by any other name!
Keith Binns, United Arab Emirates [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, September 24, 2004 at 15:51:12 (UTC)
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Sue,
Who says honkies ain`t got rythmn,ha!ha!I`ve guess I just live a hard life.
Pappy Papier, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, September 24, 2004 at 15:23:52 (UTC)
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Johnny!
I didnt know that..... tiger fish only live in waters running north and south.
What lives in the others?
I envisage leopard sharks in east/west rivers and a melange in those that go round in circles.
Am I right?
Bill
William Knott, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, September 24, 2004 at 15:06:16 (UTC)
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Ayub , time for another prod ????
Imagine what furor would be posted on GNR if the Drakey said :
"I find the Africans living in the USA, on average, wonderful people. They do work hard and tend to mind their own business. So I don't think you will have a lot of problems. Hope you like Soul food."
I'm sure the Chinese in the UK are very appreciative of your condescending views re their work ethic and food.
Frankly, I find Chinese food delicious.
I'm reminded of the story about the Chinese newlyweds, both virgins, who were in bed on their wedding night. The groom, looking at his innocent wife says" Oh, you velly beautiful. I try to make you velly happy. I give you anything you like. What you like?"
She responds coyly, " Me, I likey number 69."
He frowns, thinks for a while, and then smiles and says "Oh 69. You like bleef and bloccoli!"
Now Ayub - the tough question is :
Whose comments are more prejudicial- yours or mine?
Glen Drake, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Friday, September 24, 2004 at 13:38:53 (UTC)
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Hmmm, I fogot to add, "tongue in cheek" to my kapenta posting... grin.
Mark Dalton:
Happy Birthday!!
Linda Hayes, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, September 24, 2004 at 12:32:46 (UTC)
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Happy Birthday Mark!
It was FANTASTIC to catch up with Mark, Glenda and so many others, at the Banbury Bash - he (and Pappy) still look exactly the same! Same grin, same dance moves... How do you do it?
Enjoy your day,
Best wishes from both of us...
Sue Coughlan, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Friday, September 24, 2004 at 10:34:33 (UTC)
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Linda,
About those double decker busses in Lusaka,they were brought into the country by Freddy Marshals dad in the early 70ties,if you contact Howard Silk he may still have photos of him and I playing on them.
They were going to be used to come to Kitwe but as you know with the low bridges there was no way in.
Speak to Doron Grill he may even have some photies.
Pappy Papier, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, September 24, 2004 at 10:17:33 (UTC)
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Hi Readers
I once visited Kafue National Park and came across a word mentioned to me by a park ranger - 'Nkandamwale' - the exact context escapes me but was keen to establish the literal meaning. Anyone with anwers please post or email.
Thanks
Harshad Kamble, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, September 24, 2004 at 09:06:19 (UTC)
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Chris,
I hope you are not suggesting you,or your country holds the moral high ground! Our beloved Blair thinks he does! Everyone needs to better their moral standards..you , me and all. And, I never pointed a finger at any nation. Zambia is not the only country which has fallen prey to child trafficking. Look at Eastern Europe.
Doug,
You don't have a cockle industry in SA do you? Are the Chinese entering legally or not? I find the Chinese living in the UK,on average, wonderful people. They do work hard and tend to mind their own business. So i don't think you will have a lot of problems. Hope you like Chineses food!!
Ayub Ismail Zumla, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, September 24, 2004 at 09:03:29 (UTC)
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Linda Heather is wide awake there is no Kapenta in the Kafue, and another snippet of fishy news that I would suspect not a lot of people realised Tiger Fish are only found in Zambian rivers that run from North to South. Regards Johnny.
Johnny, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, September 24, 2004 at 07:56:56 (UTC)
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Heather ...Well said...I admire your courage and conviction regarding your love for Zambia....
Ali Key, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, September 24, 2004 at 06:36:14 (UTC)
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Charles McFarlane, Mark Dalton, Colin Hamilton
Best wishes on your birthday
Linda
Kapenta in the Kafue?
No.
In Kariba, yes; and in Iteshiteshi, yes but only because they were introduced there from Lake Tanganyika
Heather Chalcraft, Zambia [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Friday, September 24, 2004 at 05:25:21 (UTC)
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Zumla:
QUOTE:
let us straighten our morals
UNQUOTE
Whoa, steady on old chap. Whose morals exactly ought to be straightened? Yours, mine, the UK's, certainly the US's etc. is your likely answer, but I am willing to listen if you want to refute that. What I really want to hear from you is just what the GRZ is doing about straightening their morals? The liberal wing just refuses to crtically analize just what is going on there. Whilst no system is perfect, the 1st world by and large are nations of laws. Laws are enforced and offenders dealt with. The same cannot be said for Zambia.
Tembo has certainly the ability to be critical of modern day "US slavery" - the US Constitution gives him that right. But he does so without taking into account the other side of the equation. Heather's note hits it right on the head - Zambia is vulnerable, but the reasons therefore are forever laid at the feet of the First World. That notion has no foundation in my book.
And Esther, sorry to have woken you up.
Chris Tamm, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Friday, September 24, 2004 at 01:32:17 (UTC)
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Linda - I "heard" a ZBC announcer say ' And now we will play "Farewell Kapenta" by Bobby Darin'
If I were a carpenter .......
Doug Waybush, England [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, September 24, 2004 at 01:32:14 (UTC)
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Anchovy:
noun: tiny Mediterranean fishes usually canned or salted
noun: small herring-like plankton-feeding fishes often canned whole or as paste
Kapenta:
noun: tiny Kafue water fishes usually dried and salted.
noun: small anchovy-like algae-feeding fishes often reeking from the back of a fish truck
Marmite:
noun: paste made of yeast extract, salt, vegetable extract, niacin, thiamin, spice extracts, riboflavin, folic acid, celery extract, vitamin B12 (another bubble burst)
noun: very stinky, strong smelling bread spread wot makes American hubby gag... yeah!
Gimme Marmite anyday... grin.
Linda Hayes, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, September 24, 2004 at 00:43:22 (UTC)
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Glen *yawn* scroll
Esther Pettersson, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, September 23, 2004 at 22:22:13 (UTC)
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The major problem relating to Modern Day Slavery as identified by the Governments of the USA, Canada, Finland and others at a Conference ("Stop Child Trafficking: Modern-Day slavery") held in Helsinki last year.....
"Official estimates suggest that more than 700,000 persons are trafficked in Europe..and increasing. Many victims are minors who are under 18, and most are trafficked for the purposes of prostitution, sex trade and child pornography. These teenagers and young children are subjected to humiliating sexual abuse, abandonment and forms of violence in slavery or slavery-like conditions...."
To imagine that in this day and age, some humans have sunk to such levels of depravity in so called "civilised" societies, as to create markets for morons involved in trafficking to thrive on the miseries of those who are caught in the poverty trap, is an affront to civilisation itself. Those who find pleasure in molesting young kids (whether they search for their "prey" in places like Thailand or have them "brought" to them to their countries by traffickers) should be locked up for good;preferably minus their genitals! I do not think there is any Government in the West (or for that matter anywhere else) which will not do its utmost to prevent such trafficking. Unfortunately, these traffickers bypass/flout existing immigration laws/controls to make their lousy living! In London itself ,there are increasing numbers of young children from Africa and Eastern Europe who have been "smuggled" specifically for the purpose of prostitution. It involves children of all colours.
Instead of quibbling over who is to blame for all this...let us straighten our morals and do what we can to stop this evil trade! In the case of Zambia it is quite clear that the problem of HIV will leave many kids without parents....the ideal conditions for these traffickers to exploit.
Ayub Ismail Zumla, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, September 23, 2004 at 21:48:13 (UTC)
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Charlie, you are too kind. This weekend I shoot the Western Province Open...... Watch out. I aim for the kill!!!! Wish me luck. Have found two good contacts from my past. Thanks again for introducing me to this site. (Which I must add is very well presented - Typical of a N.R.) See you on the range soon....
Desi
Desiree VanderSpuy, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, September 23, 2004 at 21:40:48 (UTC)
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Sue & Linda
Thanks for the birthday wishes.
Hope all is well with you both. Look forward to seeing you in November Linda, will you coming over Sue????? Would be lovely to have Paudy & co entertaining us all again.
Grant
Hope your birthday was fun........ love to you all.
Glenda Fenwick, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, September 23, 2004 at 20:47:59 (UTC)
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On a more serious note, this morning, I was sitting in bed with my beautifully laid breakfast tray, applying a fairly more liberal coating than usual of Anchovette on my toast - more liberal than usual because there's only me to eat it and it goes off after 10 days (so it says on the jar but as we all know, you just scrape the mould off). This jar was brought back from Kitwe and has been saved for a rainy day and as the rain seems to have been more or less constant recently, this seemed the appropriate occasion. Hot toast, real butter and Anchovette. What more could you ask? Whilst nibbling my toast and savouring that amazing flavour, I idly picked up that distinctive little jar, wondering at the skill required to mush up all those little anchovies and produce such an incredible taste sensation. The taste that can take me back to school days when my friend's Mum would feed us with it on sleep-overs, remind me of a holiday in Scottburgh when we'd leave the bawling baby with Mum, mum-in-law, total strangers, in fact anybody who was too slow to say 'No!' and high-tail it off to a little cafe and some peace and quiet and anchovy toast. Aah! memories!
My silent reveries were suddenly shattered, my equilibrium totally knocked for six as with dawning horror, I read the list of ingredients. Anchovette is not what I thought it was. I am devastated to learn that I have been eating: mackerel, cape herrings and pilchards. Yuk! I hate fish paste! Anchovies are way down the list and only just above salt! How can they do this to me? All these years I have been eating that disgusting fish stuff and probably all of one anchovy to every ton of that gunge. There's yet another myth gone by the board. My life is in tatters. I am distraught, inconsolable.
BTW, my breakfast is brought to me every morning by my very own personal slave - was taken out of Africa against his wishes, doesn't get paid, and isn't allowed out on his own - but then he IS blind and he IS my husband. (Poor guy didn't get too many breaks did he!)
Lizd, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, September 23, 2004 at 20:07:20 (UTC)
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Colin the Tobacco Fundi,
The Zambian deputy minister of agriculture, Chance Kabaghe, said that Universal, the world’s biggest tobacco leaf merchant has agreed to built Zambia’s first tobacco processing plant by 2007. This follows their decision last year to build a similar plant in Mozambique costing US$45 million. Tobacco production in both countries is rising as commercial farmers leave Zimbabwe and resettle in these countries. Mozambique expected crop is 45 million kilograms this year. Zambia produced 30 million kg worth US$40 million on 13,000 hectares creating employment for over 20,000 Zambians. Nigeria is trying to get in on the action by offering free land to Zim commercial farmers.
Zimbabwe’s production is at a 33 year low of 65.5 million kg and no doubt will continue to drop. This leaves a shortfall of nearly 200 million kg in the market so there is plenty of room for expansion in other countries. Even China is now producing tobacco apparently. I wonder if any ex-rhodie farmers are there? That might be a small quid pro quo for the hordes of Chinese pouring into South Africa.
Jilly
Did you hear that they have an outbreak of anthrax in Chobe game reserve in northern Botswana. Now that is real bad news.
Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, September 23, 2004 at 20:00:37 (UTC)
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oh, and PS Heather:
I might suggest you do not invite Professor Tickey Tembo back home. A leopard never changes spots, and Zambia would probably do better without yet another academian in Lusaka. If he were to return, his myopic visionary antics would have to be funded by the GRZ (i.e. you and others). At present, the US Govt (i.e. me and others) are having to foot his bill.
Chris Tamm, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Thursday, September 23, 2004 at 18:23:45 (UTC)
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Heather,
Well said, you are a true patriot, a woman with conviction. I salute you. You and I may differ on certain issues, but not this one.
Tembo's ramblings are entirely worthless.
Chris Tamm, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Thursday, September 23, 2004 at 17:42:38 (UTC)
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William Pitt (no, David Hoyle – not Billy that famous BH personality), in a speech to the House of Commons on 18 Nov 1783, said: “Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves”. More than twenty-two decades later, his words still ring true. There are two sides to the coin, and both are motivated by that all-embracing word ‘necessity’. It’s as relevant today as it was in the period of Johnny G’s quote from the Old Testament (Joshua (9, 23)).
Gee – that’s just made me feel like Moliere’s character, Philinte, in ‘la Misanthrope’ who said: ‘De vouloir se meler a corriger le monde’ (It’s a great stupidity, to want to busy oneself with the correction of the world).
Tina Magee.
Wicked sense of humour girl.
Desiree.
Welcome aboard, and keep a wary eye on my ‘ou maat’ Johnny Green – he ‘smaaks lekker chicks’! How did you manage to get clearance from the Politburo so quickly? Arthur must’ve been too busy with his bucket of cold water to notice that you’re a friend of mine.
Peter D.
A few more BHers have come on board. Soon we’ll be ‘the silent majority’ – pun intended!
Regards
Charles Cartmill, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, September 23, 2004 at 17:40:55 (UTC)
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Happy-Happy Grant and Glenda
and many more from both of us
Sue Coughlan, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Thursday, September 23, 2004 at 17:21:59 (UTC)
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Esther – while some GNR readers blindly rally behind people that use this forum to spout pseudo intellectual and religious crap about wrong doings in countries they now find it convenient to live in , not to mention any names, like Mubita and Mwizenge, you think that Chris Tamm “is off on one his tangents again.” Well, you are wrong. As predicted, Mwizenge once again proves that his words are hollow. Heather said “What is important is what we are doing to ensure a better future for the country and its population.” I asked him what he had done and I’m still waiting for his answers? After all, he asked seven questions in his posting on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 at 14:41:01. For goodness sake, after all his academic life :
1. Why didn’t HE know how 14 Zambian boys could disappear and no Zambian here or at home would be concerned about where they were and what they were doing in the USA and their condition?
2. Why wasn’t HE the one Zambian concerned at least here?
3. Why hadn’t HE figured out how the Zambian children get into a situation like this?
4. What measures is HE taking to make sure that this does not happen again?
5. What is HE doing for the welfare of his displaced fellow citizens.?
6. Shouldn’t HE be the first person to know if there might be other slaves to day here in the USA?
7. What is HE doing for the restitution of monies they may have earned?
Pull your head out of the sand Mwizenge. While you’re enjoying yourself in the US and blaming everyone else for the allowing the future of Zambia, the Zambian children, ending up as slaves, non military Americans are having their heads slowly separated by some Al-Qaeda zealot sawing their heads off with a knife. And what are these non-combatant Americans doing? Trying to bring democracy to Irag by helping people. Oh, wait a bit? Did the Professor say “What democracy?” You know Mwizenge, the same democracy those greedy Colonials brought to Northern Rhodesia before 1964.
Perhaps Sipho Khumalo did get it right. Esther, you should go back and read the posting by Chris Tamm instead of being another sheep following a Judas Goat to the slaughter. Sure, you can post one liners to get a few pats on the back from equally misguided bleeding liberals, but hey, be like a lawyer, it really is more fun to be admitted “the bar” where your verbal diarrhea can take it’s proper place. After all, isn’t that all it is? Whether it is from Chris, myself or Mwizenge?
Maybe and maybe not. Some people can tell the difference.
Glen Drake, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Thursday, September 23, 2004 at 17:05:04 (UTC)
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I know, Robert. I decided to have some fun with the original. Hope that doesn't make me too much of a drip - another ewer of water joke for you. Actually I was trying to be more of a refreshing drink.
Tina Magee, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, September 23, 2004 at 16:06:35 (UTC)
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Tina,
Try 'Hewers of Wood and Drawers of Water.'
Robert Huntley, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, September 23, 2004 at 15:16:02 (UTC)
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Johnny
I'm moved to comment. (Unusual eh?) Everyone is liable to be a hewer of wood and a drawer of water* when the circumstances of their lives leave them at the bottom end of the food chain. When you seek an escape you can (metaphorically) either end up building pyramids or being the Pharoah's Pyramid Contractor in Chief. Which, as an aside, reminds me of Rudyard Kipling's wry poetic humour which is not connected but is worth sharing: "Who can doubt the secret hid under Cheop's Pyramid was that the contractor did Cheops out of several millions."
Heather - very enlightening.
*how on earth do you wear drawers of water? And anyway shouldn't it be a 'ewer of water and a drawer of wood? Personally I wooden know. A knotty problem.
Tina Magee, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, September 23, 2004 at 14:35:47 (UTC)
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Craig.thought you might enjoy this link.....
http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsArticle.jhtml?type=oddlyEnoughNews&storyID=6299947&src=eDialog/GetContent§ion=news
Ali Key, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, September 23, 2004 at 13:12:17 (UTC)
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GRANT KNOWLES AND GLENDA FENWICK
Happy birthday to both of you!
Linda Hayes, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, September 23, 2004 at 12:34:55 (UTC)
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Mwizenge Did not some one decree that they shall be hewers of wood and drawers of water? maybe the Americans have just got round to reading it.
Johnny, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, September 23, 2004 at 09:35:42 (UTC)
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Grant Knowles, Glenda Fenwick, Hilary Tyson-Woodcock, Luanne Massolini, Bobby Brown, Sue Cason
Best wishes on your birthday
Linda
Giraffe Bus Services used to operate a number of double decker buses in Lusaka, but no longer as far as I know i.e. I have not seen one of the road for about ten years. Also, an AAD registration would mean that the bus was registered here circa 1979/80/81. Having said that, they could be sitting in a yard somewhere, so I shall see what I can find.
I also have a friend in Livingstone who operates two or three double deckers. Will ask him for the gen on them.
Mwizenge
At the last count, Zambia had around 600,000 street kids - 6 percent of our population. The reasons for this are many - in some cases the parents have died and there is no one to look after them, in others the parents send the children onto the streets and tell them not to come back unless they have money. But whatever the reason for each individual case, the root cause is the poverty in this country. And this is the reason why people can be taken as slaves to other countries.
And the reasons for the poverty in this country are also many but I do not intend going into these now because we would never reach a conclusion on which we all agree.
But the reasons are not what is important. What is important is what we are doing to ensure a better future for the country and its population. In my case, I have chosen to stay here and work from within. And in true Zambian English, you have chosen to 'work from without' although I am of the firm belief that if our educated Zambians came back and lived here and used their skills here, we would be able to make an enormous difference.
Heather Chalcraft, Zambia [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Thursday, September 23, 2004 at 05:49:17 (UTC)
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Oh Boy here we go!
Watch out everybody - Chris is off on one his tangents again.
Esther Pettersson, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, September 23, 2004 at 04:58:22 (UTC)
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The Professor, putting in his tickey's worth, uses a word (catatonia) that I had to look up. Here is the definition:
NOUN: An abnormal condition variously characterized by stupor, stereotypy, mania, and either rigidity or extreme flexibility of the limbs. It is most often associated with schizophrenia.
Oooh, powerful stuff there professor. But then what else would you expect from a learned space cadet who has lost all contact with the planet, especially his own part of it down there in Africa. As expected, just a bunch of hot air.
BTW, I am waiting to see copies of your missives to major media outlets, condemning present day slavery in the US, and how Zambia (especially Given's family and friends) had absolutely zero involvement. I am also waiting to read YOUR suggestions for the solution to the issue. Leaning on a few old expats in the GNR is not likely to get you very far.
Chris Tamm, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Thursday, September 23, 2004 at 03:47:35 (UTC)
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Heather:
This is totally off the wall, but I found it fascinating enough to ask you about it. I happened to be surfing the internet last night, checking bus service in the UK for my upcoming trip, and stumbled across a website for people who track, own, restore, old English buses of one sort or another. Being an "enquiring mind" as they say over here in Yankee land, I surfed all over the site and... yes this is the germane part.. came across a bus that is purported to be in Lusaka, being used for public transportation by The Giraffe Bus Company.
Being the supreme Sherlock Holmes-ette that you are, I thought I would throw out a challenge to your investigative prowess and photographic talent. The bus in question is an RT422 HLX239 model, with the licence plate of AAD5756. Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to find this bus and take a photo of it for me.
For those interested in vintage vehicles, etc., I think you might enjoy looking at this site The address is: www.sftt.co.uk/busgarage This is not a live link. When you get on the home page, move your mouse over the 3 double decker buses, or the doors to either side of them as they are pointers to other parts of the site. I found the Lusaka based bus under the "Spotter's Jotter" link. They didn't call me "Detective Dore" for nothing.. grin.
Linda Hayes, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, September 23, 2004 at 03:22:38 (UTC)
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Thanks Tina, Linda and others for your positive responses. I wish to also acknowledge the usual suspects who seem to be permanently frozen into attitudinal catatonia. The world has really changed. Since I saw this story last night, I now wonder what happened to African Choir children from Uganda who sung at one of our local churches about 4 years ago. They are probably ok and back in Uganda. All of you good people need to be vigilant because if you throw up your hands, evil and ugliness will overwhelm us even on the message board. Americans saved the 14 Zambian boys and they have been in different American homes for several years now. Givens was supposed to give testimony during US congressional hearings to day. For some of you who seem to love to turn everything into a racial Armageddon, slavery is every where today. I.e in cities of Europe, in the US, in West Africa, in the Sudan, in the middle East, in Asia just to mention a few places. Of course the brutal chattel slavery in which individuals were openly shackled, tortured, whipped, lynched, and killed ended. Slavery to day is very hidden. Millions of women and children are sold into slavery as sex slaves across international borders. Many Migrant workers and workers who come to the United States illegally, often work in sweat shops and are kept there by force. A slave is any man, woman, or child anywhere in the world who works for nothing and is forced to stay and work through the threat of use of force or the actual use of force. On the abc.com web page there was a story there in which a Hollywood tycoon in Los Angeles had kept a Filipino worker as a slave. The legal system caught up with him. The cause of slavery has nothing to do with race. Human greed is what causes slavery. Because of this, anyone including you and I, can practice slavery so long as we choose to be greedy and decide to keep someone in captivity through the use of force or the threat of use of force to exploit who ever is powerless around us. So keep your eyes open. The 14 boys were kept in a rural house on the Texas-Oklahoma border before an Immigration official stumbled into them.
Mwizenge Tembo, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Thursday, September 23, 2004 at 02:42:25 (UTC)
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Here is another article (snagged from the Bar across the Zambezi), which is refreshingly different. And then look at the author, and who is quoted. Perhaps this is the same skebenga who Doug G lambasted not long ago? Agenda or no agenda, the article makes for easy reading. Truth is often painful to accept, but remarkably easy to grasp. Here goes:
From The Mercury (SA), 22 September
Africa 'worse off than in colonial times'
Sipho Khumalo
Africa is worse off now than it was during the era of colonialism because its political elite are plundering its resources and stashing money in Swiss banks instead of investing it in their own countries. These comments were made on Tuesday by Moeletsi Mbeki, Chairperson of the South African Institute of International Affairs, and brother of the president. In his address to the Durban branch of SAIIA, on the theme Africa: Quo Vadis?, Mbeki said Africa was experiencing a downward spiral, with its people worse off than they had been during the time of colonialism. Whereas colonialists had developed the continent, planted crops, built roads and cities, the era of uhuru had been characterised by capital flight as the elite pocketed money and took it outside their countries. Among them were the late Nigerian dictator Sani Abacha. The money Abacha had plundered had been discovered in Switzerland. Mbeki said the continent was also facing the problem of being unable to generate savings, with sub-Saharan Africa getting poorer and poorer every year. "This is one of the depressing features of Africa," he said.
Mbeki said that while China had lifted more than 400 000 people above the poverty line in the past 20 years, Nigeria had pushed more than 90 million people below the poverty line. "The average African is poorer (now) than during the age of colonialism. In the 1960s African elites/rulers, instead of focusing on development, took surplus for their own enormous entourages of civil servants without ploughing anything back into the country," he said. He said the continent's cash crops, like cocoa and tobacco, were heavily exploited by the state-run marketing boards with farmers getting little in return. What should South Africa do about this? "It should revisit issues and stop putting out fires in Darfur until we address this fundamental problem of power relations between producers and controllers of political power," Mbeki said. On Zimbabwe, he said South Africa should intervene on the side of democracy and not back Zanu PF. "Our intervention should be to support democracy and not tolerate use of violence, torture and rigging of elections and, if necessary, we should support the opposition," he said.
Chris Tamm, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Thursday, September 23, 2004 at 02:08:14 (UTC)
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Tina:
I have to concur with what you have posted. I, too, have had the pleasure of hearing the same, or another, Zambian childrens' choir, and had the same experience as you describe. They were happy, contended, very excited about being chosen to perform. Very focused and well behaved. And there was no hesitation on the part of the organizers to let me speak to them. There was a lot of affection showered on the kids from the adults with them, and they seemed very happy. I was allowed to visit with them and a lot of interest was shown by them when they realised I knew where they came from and had lived in their home country. It doesn't seem to add up to the story that followed.
I have been to 2 other concerts that were performed by "The African Children's Choir", which has its own website. Same thing there. This organization works with kids from Uganda, Rwanda, Kenya, and has also added South Africa now. Again, the kids were just like the Zambian kids. Upper age was 14. There were even older Africans, around 20yrs old, who were travelling with the group and who were former choir members themselves. I saw no signs of any abuse. They were very vocal about what the choir had done for them and making a difference in their lives.
On the other side of the coin, was one Nevers Mumba. This gentleman came to Austin around 2001, as a travelling charismatic preacher. I heard about him on the radio, and being a Christian, I decided to go and hear him preach. I am not charismatic and it was my first experience of this type of worship. He was exceptionally good at what he said and did. Very flamboyant, electrifying the congregation as charismatic preachers do, and was telling everyone how faithful he is to his wife, to his country, to his dream that he would bring Zambia out of corruption because he believed that God would deliver Zambia to him. He had the crowd mesmerized with his oratory. People were throwing money at him left, right and center and I stood back and watched. Quite impressive. But when I went to talk to him after he had finished the show.. oops, sermon.. he was extremely reluctant and hesistant to engage in conversation once he knew I was from Zambia. A fox among the pidgeons, no doubt. I see that he is now second in command in Zambia. It will be interesting to see just what he does do if God delivers Zambia to him. From stories I have been told, he has conned a lot of people out of money, property, etc., in Zambia, so he is not the squeeky clean person he preached he was.
I suppose I better duck at this point, especially since I consider myself apolitical ... as in couldn't care less.
Linda Hayes, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, September 23, 2004 at 01:13:13 (UTC)
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Why don't people do something about human trafficking abuses?
Most of us just don't see it even when we think we are looking. Here's a nice germane example.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1051603/posts
This link to a story from the Fort Worth Star Telegram in January of this year is a great example. I found it on a search this evening. I saw the Zambian Accapella Choir perform several years ago. I spoke to several of the members. They greeted me as an ex-Zambian and no one asked for help and as far as I was concerned I was meeting contented, excited boys. I felt good for them. Yet this year we find out they were actually being exploited, although, thank God, more gently than some and these boys at least will have a shot at good life opportunities out of the experience.
Forced labour, slavery and criminal trafficking in human beings - especially women and children - are on the rise worldwide and taking new forms according to the International Labour Office (ILO).
So many abuses in life MUST go on around us that we do not notice. If we want to make a difference we can try and keep our eyes open, ask questions, risk the embarrassment inherent in involvement, support good organizations and refuse to "be weary in well doing".
Mwizenge, my friend, I don't think it's fair to presume most of the readership is uncaring or disinterested in such things. I'll bet most didn't see the program or catch the news. e.g. I might catch half an hour of TV a night. Just living your own life is a full-time and often overwhelming thing, isn't it? Anyway, I'll email you.
Tina Magee, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, September 23, 2004 at 00:29:19 (UTC)
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Esther P
To criticize anyone for their entries is self centered and totally unnecessary.
So why is it then that you are allowed to criticise? Mmmmm?
Chris Tamm, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Wednesday, September 22, 2004 at 23:06:26 (UTC)
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Ken
This message board is for all.
If you don't like the subject matter - its simple to scroll until there is something that you do like.
To criticize anyone for their entries is self centered and totally unnecessary.
Esther Pettersson, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, September 22, 2004 at 22:30:24 (UTC)
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Mwizenge: You might consider reading "Kazembe & the Portugese". It is also worthwhile asking why there is a distinct line of (barren) date-palms, stretching from Mwatakezembe's palace on the Luapula, all the way to the East Coast.
Ken Fernie, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, September 22, 2004 at 20:28:33 (UTC)
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Ah, yes, Flip Wilson...
I remember many moons ago how Flip was lamenting to Johnny Carson on the Tonight Show how poor he was as a child and how terrible his slum living conditions were.
At one point Flip said they had rats this big - having both his arms stretched out. Johnny, not to be outdone said that as a child there were no rats in the slum he lived - the cockroaches had eaten them all....
Peter Dielissen, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, September 22, 2004 at 19:45:08 (UTC)
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Thanks Fiona, will pass on to Dick.
Liz
Lizd, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, September 22, 2004 at 19:01:51 (UTC)
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Mwizenge Tembo,
Slavery is bad, we all know that, but it is not prevalent in most Western countries. The current apologia being offered by politicians of all stripes, for crimes committed over two hundred years ago is ludicrous. It is my belief that Germans born after 1940 have no more reason to feel shame for the atrocities of WW11, than I do for the bombing of Dresden.
I did not see the Lifeline Program so have no knowlege of its content..... but some Zambian parent obviously did know what was going on.
Slavery is not an African perogative, but the indigenous tribes of that continent did a great deal to facilitate the mass expulsion of their own kind, with the help of Arab and European incentives.
Robert Huntley, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, September 22, 2004 at 18:44:26 (UTC)
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The US economy must be improving. Flip Wilson the Black American comedian joked many years ago, that the economy was so bad you couldn't even get a job as a slave.
Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, September 22, 2004 at 18:12:05 (UTC)
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What the hell is this?
The GNR is now a Missing Persons Bureau and we're now going to debate the evils of Slavery?
Here we go again, wandering away from our raison d'etre. Enough already.
Ken Fernie, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, September 22, 2004 at 18:09:58 (UTC)
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Professor Tickey Tembo pontificates:
How can 14 Zambian boys disappear and no Zambian here or at home would be concerned about where they were and what they were doing in the USA and their condition?
Buggered if I know. Why not start checking the matter out with the Zambian Emigration Department
Why wasn't even one Zambian concerned at least here?
You were there, or were you not?
I know that there is poverty at home. But how did the Zambian children get into a situation like this?
Good question. Check that out with the GRZ. They will be as confused over this question as you apparently are.( What did you say you are a professor of again??)
Are there any measures we can take to make sure that this does not happen again?
Yes there are.
Isn't this the kind of thing our Association of Zambians in the USA and GNR people should be doing i.e looking after the welfare of our fellow citizens?
Mmmm, now let me ponder that one for a moment. Tell you what, let me wait for you to come up with a sixpack of suggestions.
Are there any Zambians who you suspect might be slaves to day here in the USA?
Yup, you are one! I might suggest you head off back home and fix the problem at it's source.
Can litigation and a lawyer here try to get the estimated $700,000 the boys worked for?
Of course they can, but not until the GRZ is punished for the wreck and ruin of their own country - which is the root cause for Zambians being sold into slavery, by Zambians.
The people who enslaved the boys will not learn that it is bad unless they are punished. The program said there are 27 million slaves in the world to day.
Nooohhh!
The danger with last night's story is that evil people might now begin targeting Zambians for slavery since they know may be no one will protest. Let me know what you think or if you know some more details about this story.
Ja, very dangerous indeed. I concur. I think Koppel and company should be banned from the airwaves
Please, communicate privately as I am not interested in politicing this. Slavery anywhere in the world to day in 2004 is wrong and should be eliminated.
Why go behind the doors now? You break the story and then duck? Sounds like a lack of courage to me.
And please, do NOT respond to me privately. That goes for everyone here, asseblief tog
Chris Tamm, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Wednesday, September 22, 2004 at 17:55:49 (UTC)
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Secret Passions & Hot Flushes
Germane to Phil Pain
I put down my copy of Classic Cars & consulted the domestic oracle & fount of all wisdom.
"Darling, what exactly is male menopause?"
The mood changed. The Jack Russell shot under the stairs.
"It is when men who ought to know better do damn silly things to try to recapture some lost youth," she said. "Why?"
'Because," I said as gently as I could, "I think for my next birthday I need to receive either a very young blonde or a very old sports car."
Now standing in the courtyard is a showroom restored, ivory-with-red – leather, spoked-wheeled, top-down, 1964-built MGA 1600 Mk 2 roadster.
By Frederick Forsyth
Bill Hunt, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, September 22, 2004 at 17:51:42 (UTC)
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Mwizenge do you think a logical explanation could be that with all the silence that you say is surrounding this unfortunate episode that these children have been sold as servants by there parents who have instructed them not to cause a fuss over there predicament?
Johnny, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, September 22, 2004 at 17:12:25 (UTC)
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Mwizenge,
And what excuse do you have for not having helped these "slaves"? How come YOU were ignorant, until now, of their existence? What did you do with the 10 years you spent at Michigan State and the concurrent 11 years you spent at the Zambia Institute for African studies? Have you put anything you learned into practice?
You have problem wih finding people - I see by your profile that you're looking for 23 individuals. Why not conform to the inefficiency apparent in the USA government and add Usama Bin Laden to your list?
By the way, I'm responding to your posting because you ARE politicizing this issue. I'm just wondering where you're going to point your accusing finger. Probably at any one else other than yourself. It's always some other person's fault isn't it.
Glen Drake, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Wednesday, September 22, 2004 at 15:43:32 (UTC)
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I watched Nightline on ABC last night about "Givens" the Zambian boy who with 14 others may have been slaves here in the United States. I was angry and disappointed. Kalingalinga in Lusaka where the boy was from was about one mile from my house when I lived at UNZA. My wife went to Kalingalinga clinic where she had our last born. The questions I asked are:
How can 14 Zambian boys disappear and no Zambian here or at home would be concerned about where they were and what they were doing in the USA and their condition?
Why wasn't even one Zambian concerned at least here?
I know that there is poverty at home. But how did the Zambian children get into a situation like this?
Are there any measures we can take to make sure that this does not happen again?
Isn't this the kind of thing our Association of Zambians in the USA and GNR people should be doing i.e looking after the welfare of our fellow citizens?
Are there any Zambians who you suspect might be slaves to day here in the USA?
Can litigation and a lawyer here try to get the estimated $700,000 the boys worked for? The people who enslaved the boys will not learn that it is bad unless they are punished. The program said there are 27 million slaves in the world to day.
The danger with last night's story is that evil people might now begin targeting Zambians for slavery since they know may be no one will protest. Let me know what you think or if you know some more details about this story. Please, communicate privately as I am not interested in politicing this. Slavery anywhere in the world to day in 2004 is wrong and should be eliminated.
Mwizenge Tembo, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Wednesday, September 22, 2004 at 14:41:01 (UTC)
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Hi Ian
Many thanks for the link with the photo of Sir Hone.
Harshad Kamble, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, September 22, 2004 at 14:32:06 (UTC)
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Hey Robert
Small world ... David lives now in Somerset West, and I know he used to see Billy Moore a lot until recently - I think Billy may now have moved to Oz or NZ - I'll ask David when I next speak to him - he is still married and has 3 daughters, including twins!!. Judy Walsh was in my class (Form IIA) in, I think, 1965. I left Zam in 1966 while in Form IIIA, and completed my schooling in Cape Town. Then UCT and then went back to Rhodesia where I spent several years in the Army there and returned to Jo'burg in 1977 where I have been ever since.
Cheers
Alan Tomlinson, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, September 22, 2004 at 13:26:35 (UTC)
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Alan
I used to be a friend of your brother David, we used to go hunting in the bush by Bedford Cres with Billy Moore. I also knew Mrs Klopper's son David too. Mrs Kloppers used to give private instruction in art to my girlfriend Judy Walsh. I have a portrait of Judy done by Mrs Kloppers. Judy is here in New Zealand in the upper North Island somewhere but I have lost contact with her and her sister Charmaine who I am trying to get hold of to give her email addy to Geoff Paynter.
Robert Worrill, New Zealand [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, September 22, 2004 at 12:51:26 (UTC)
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Robert Worril asked:
"Romy - Rosemary Kloppers
Are you related in any way to the Mrs Kloppers that used to teach art at Kansenji High in Ndola?" ....
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I remember the art teacher Audrey(?) Kloppers at Ndola's LHS/KSS. She had a son David, who was a friend of mine, and a daughter Sylvia, a year or two older.
Alan Tomlinson, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, September 22, 2004 at 05:09:15 (UTC)
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Lizd
Thank you for the link - I will try it and sorry about your loss.
Its a damned shame - of the family I have been searching for two have already died. So the joy of finding one person is marred by the deaths of two.
Esther Pettersson, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, September 21, 2004 at 23:17:02 (UTC)
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Liz
I am so sorry to hear that after all your seeking. Very sad news. Please give my condolences to Dick
Fiona Gayther, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, September 21, 2004 at 21:09:54 (UTC)
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Thanks to Charlie for introducing me to this website. Great to know that there are so many friends out there. Can't wait to make contact.
Desiree VanderSpuy, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, September 21, 2004 at 20:13:48 (UTC)
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Hi All
Re Sir Evelyn Hone - there are some photographs of him at http://nrzam.org.uk - see the Handbooks section/ Colonial Report for 1962
The pictures are at the bottom of the left hand frame.There is one pic in the '62s and a few more in the '61s. Sir Evelyn is not actually named, being referred to as the 'Governor'.
I initially wondered if Lord Dalhousie was Governor but he was in fact the last Federation Governor General - he died in 1999.
Regards Ian
Ian Singer, Scotland [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Tuesday, September 21, 2004 at 20:04:28 (UTC)
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Esther,
Why not try (if you haven't already) desperately seeking on www.you.co.za After trying every possible website looking for Dick's younger sister, I put a message on that and it worked. I found Dick's neices but sadly his sister had passed away a year ago. Now why didn't I try it sooner?
Good luck in your search!
Lizd, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, September 21, 2004 at 20:03:03 (UTC)
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Hi Tina
Just saw your message with Verity's name on it - I will contact her and find out about her sister.
Cheers
Harshad Kamble, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, September 21, 2004 at 17:52:18 (UTC)
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Hi Tina
Many thanks. I would love to see the family photo. I met with Verity Mason who I believe is his daughter but I couldn't chat long enough to find out in detail. I will find out a little more and see if I can get her to join the GNR.
Thanks
Harshad Kamble, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, September 21, 2004 at 17:45:14 (UTC)
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MacRae
Hi, I also knew Theresa MacRae. She was adopted by her new dad and took on the name McRae - don't know her original name - same MacRaes as Linda knows, I think. They were living in Benoni in the late seventies - very good looking family - dark hair, green eyes and used to go waterskiing at the dam most weekends - I got sunstroke one weekend skiiing with them! I spent some time with them late seventies in SA, but I have lost touch. If it's the same family I'd love to find Theresa again.
Jill
Jill Aplin, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, September 21, 2004 at 13:04:17 (UTC)
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Romy - Rosemary Kloppers
Are you related in any way to the Mrs Kloppers that used to teach art at Kansenji High in Ndola?
Regards
Robert Worrill, New Zealand [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, September 21, 2004 at 12:26:50 (UTC)
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Craig
Just shows what a good editor you are........something I have been learning to do regarding the Health Centre website......;0)
Ali Key, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, September 21, 2004 at 09:18:55 (UTC)
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Hi Bryan
What a pleasure it was to read of somebody with Holy Cross Convent - Livingstone in common.
My family moved to Livingstone in 1955. I started at the Convent in 1959 until March 1966 when my Dad and family decided to came back to SA - Durban. Things just got really dangerous for us after independence hence the decision.
I fondly remember Sr. Perpetua (Irish) who used to ride around the fields on the Priest's scooter bike, much to all our kids delight, she was a real tomboy. Sister Fidelma was my music teacher and Sr. Leila was Mother Superior. I found out from the Main Convent in Johannesburg that they had all passed on a few years back.
I remember the Bon Accord Hotel which is still standing as us kids used to sit in the car when my Dad went in for a pint. Of course we were spoilt with chips and cool-drinks during the wait.
My Gran (Rosa Henry) and Step Grandfather (George David Henry) used to have the Disco (his Hi Fi System) as dancing was the in thing every Friday or Saturday night - in the old day. No Television. Of course us kids used to sometimes accompany them to the different venues.
Do you remember the MOTH Hall. My Dad was a member. That was our main hangout most afternoons, swimming.
Take care
Romy
Romy - Rosemary Kloppers, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, September 21, 2004 at 08:58:29 (UTC)
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Ali,
Thanks. Makes more sense. I suppose I should have looked up the numbers myself, as 37 600 sounded very high to me too.
Craig Hartnett, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Tuesday, September 21, 2004 at 06:18:15 (UTC)
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Linda
Lily was married to Kurt Hunke, my Mother's brother. They had four children - Robert (Bobby), Ricky (Erich), Anita and Ingrid. After her marriage break-down, Lily went off with George Macrae. George's son is Rob.
I have managed to find most of he Hunke family except for Anita and her mother Lily (Liliane who was born in Albertville).
If I find Rob - he may know where his father is and by finding George - he might be able to shed some light on the whereabouts of Lily and her daughter.
They are all long shots but I am trying everything.
I don't know where Robert lived, or if he had a sister - sorry!!
Esther Pettersson, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, September 21, 2004 at 05:09:30 (UTC)
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Esther:
Can you clarify your posting, please? I was a little confused. Are the two family units broken down to Lily Hunke, who had Anita and her brother Bobby Hunke and then George McCrae who had the son Robert McCrae (later named Robert Swart)? At this point, are you looking for Lily and Anita Hunke and Robert McCrae/Swart, but have found Bobby Hunke? By any chance did Robert McCrae have a sister called Theresa McCrea and did they live in Harrow Crescent in Kitwe?
Linda Hayes, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, September 21, 2004 at 02:21:06 (UTC)
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Craig.....
Thanks for highlighting that discrepancy...I went and looked up the estimated numbers and it must have been a typo, as the estimated numbers are in 3600
I shall let Afritrust know
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L17477646.htm
Still makes my blood boil though!
Ali Key, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, September 21, 2004 at 02:10:06 (UTC)
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Linda
Yes - that would probably be him.
I really hope my post leads to something - I must have emailed thousands in the quest to tie up my family's loose ends
Esther Pettersson, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, September 21, 2004 at 01:47:35 (UTC)
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Ali,
The article you linked to ("Black rhinos to be hunted?") has some confusing numbers. It says, "A recent estimate put black rhino numbers at 37 600, the vast majority in South Africa and Namibia. Namibia is seeking an annual quota of five rhinos for trophy hunters out of its estimated population of 1134 while South Africa wants to hunt 10 of its estimated 1200 black rhinos a year." 1134+1200=2334 which is 6% of 37 600, which is hardly a "vast majority". I realise you didn't write the article, but can you explain the discrepancy?
Craig Hartnett, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Monday, September 20, 2004 at 23:08:21 (UTC)
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Esther:
Would Robert McCrae be in his early fifties now, by any chance? I went to Kitwe Primary with a boy by that name. Very good looking and had very white teeth and unusually brilliant green eyes. I think he may have been a year older than the rest of us, although was in Std 5 the same year that I was there.
Sorry, I can't help, but I'm just curious to know if it is the same person.
Linda Hayes, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 20, 2004 at 22:26:51 (UTC)
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Tina,
Thanks for the link and I enjoyed reading the tributes to a Gentle Man
Jack Wardell, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 20, 2004 at 22:14:11 (UTC)
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Trying to find....
Anyone who knows anyone who knew anything about any of the following people..
My Auntie Lily Hunke partnered up with George Macrae (McRae) in the 60's.
Auntie Lily had a girl called Anita and she's and her Mother are the ones I am trying to find.
George Macrae had a son Rob who went to school at St Stephens in Balla Balla together with my brother Charles Pettersson.
Rob's surname was changed to Swart and I believe he lived in Benoni.
After 12 years of intensive searching and emailing almost every Hunke on the planet, I found Anita's brother Robert (Bobby) living in Germany just a couple of weeks ago - very emotional and very happy as he thought he was the only Hunke left.
Now I am making it my mission to find his little sister.
If there is anyone out there who knows the whereabouts of Rob or Anita or Lily - please please let me know.
Esther Pettersson, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 20, 2004 at 22:06:24 (UTC)
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Instead of working (again) I remembered Prudence's sister's name - Verity - and did a search on their names and came up with this very illuminating hit: God Bless this family of contributors to Africa:
http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/329/7460/296-b/DC1
Tina Magee, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 20, 2004 at 21:29:06 (UTC)
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Lynda & Fiona! I would love to attend your Pommie Braai, but on that date my Donna and I will be arriving in Lusaka in transit to Kala Farm in Kalomo and having a GNR Braai. Will dop a few Catles (or is it Musis) and think of you all. Incedently there is an excelent RSA Burcher here in Chandlers Ford and the nyama is mnande.
Steve Murray
Stephen-James Murray, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 20, 2004 at 20:26:16 (UTC)
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Harshad
It was Sir Evelyn Hone. He had a couple of daughters, Prudence was one, she was in our class at Lusaka Convent. Somewhere I've got an official Christmas card that I think they used to put a family photo in. I'll dig it out for you.
Tina Magee, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 20, 2004 at 16:33:11 (UTC)
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At a guess I would say Benson but with my memory could be wrong.
Johnny, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 20, 2004 at 16:29:51 (UTC)
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Hi everyone,
Its been a long time since my last posting but have been busy writing a book.
I happened to meet someone from Zambia yesterday at a party and we exchanged a lot of info.
I was keen on finding out if anyone knows who the last Governor of Pre-independance Zambia was ?
Harshad Kamble, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 20, 2004 at 14:30:35 (UTC)
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Hi Peter,
good to know that you are on board the GNR. The earliest I remember you, you were running down the passage way of the Bon Accord Hotel in Livingstone. If I am right you were age four. Time we met again. Last time I saw you at Kerry's Wedding at the Rosegarden in Carmel.
Regards Bryan
Hi Romy,
shame about the Convent in Livingstone. I went to school there in 1948 - 1950. The High Priest / Boss Man was known to us as Father Brick Dust because of his red hair. Many's the time I jumped over the fence and ran away. The teacher of the class I was in was Sister McCartney, who later became Mother Superior. As a little boy I thought she was quite pretty.
Bryan
Bryan Baker, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 20, 2004 at 12:33:11 (UTC)
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Welcome Barbara and Marjorie to the G.N.R. When you can get logged on please send me an E-mail so we can establish comms.
Peter Goodhew, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 20, 2004 at 11:58:59 (UTC)
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LINDA
Thanks very much for the offer, but it's probably not a viable proposition to get a Wolseley...or any other car from Zambia to here.
Philip Pain
Thanks for your leads...unfortunately no go...so am still looking.
Many thanks
Paul
Paul Cowie, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 20, 2004 at 11:16:15 (UTC)
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Precious Black Rhino!!!!
Please read the link below http://www.afritrust.com/StoryArchive/Story.asp?aid=206
How this can be allowed has flumoxed me !!!!
Ali Key, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 20, 2004 at 09:54:53 (UTC)
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Mick Wright,
Have some info for you regarding
Peter Lynch
Chris Lynch
Colin Gray, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 20, 2004 at 09:48:32 (UTC)
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More on Ants
When this was first raised I wanted to refer to the Linda Caine book "Out of the Dark" but it was out on loan. Just got it back and the reference there is quite graphic of her and her husbands encounter with a column of Red ants at their house outside Kalomo.
They were attacked one night (late 60's) and survived by a series of measures starting with using their bed as an island with each leg placed in a bucket containing paraffin and water. Next day they improvised rings of fire round their house despite the danger of starting a bush fire. Some of their pets dd not fare too well.
"It took three days for the column to pass. Every night at dusk we burned the ring of paraffin and poured a fresh ring. Then I sat on the veranda wall - safe on my island - and watched them."
Off on Safari:
Just packing our bags today for another wee trip back to Africa. Sadly Gill and I can't fit in a trip to "Urban Zambia". We are visiting a friend who is on VSO in Mzuzu Malawi and, having never visited Malawi and heard so much about it we could not resist. We spend next weekend in the Nyika highlands then make a 3 night 4 day trip from Lilongwe to the South Luangwa. I have only been their once before; in 1972!
After that we have 10 days in Kenya with a trip Salt Lick, Tsavo and up in a balloon over the Masai Mara. This retirement lark can be quite stressful!
Jack Wardell, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 20, 2004 at 09:11:40 (UTC)
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TYTHERINGTON TIYENDE
For anyone coming to the bash, I have compiled a list of accommodation within easy reach by car or taxi. If you need any further help please email me. Sorry but you will have to copy and paste the links. There is another B & B in Tytherington but I'm still looking for details. I will post that later. The most convenient and reasonable hotels are The Bristol Inn which is just off the motorway, Premier Lodge and Alveston House.
Boytes Farm B & B
Boyts Farm
Tytherington
Tel: 01454 412220
http://www.specialplacestostay.com/search/display.php?FileID=bbb2670
Tortworth Court (posh & expensive)
Wotton Under Edge
South Gloucestershire
GL12 8HH
Tel: 01454 263 000
http://fourpillars.tablesir.com/tortworth/findus.htm
Alveston House Hotel
Alveston
Thornbury
Alveston
Gloucestershire
BS35 2LA
Tel: 01454 415 050
http://www.information-britain.co.uk/showPlace.cfm?Place_ID=6
The Bristol Inn
Bristol Road
Falfield
South Gloucestershire
GL12 8DL
Tel: 01454 260502
The Park Hotel & Restaurant
Falfield
South Gloucestershire
GL12 8DR
Tel: 01454 260550
Premier Lodge (The Ship Inn)
Thornbury Road
Alveston
South Gloucestershire
BS35 3LL
Tel: (0870) 7001338
Quakers (Guest House)
http://www.specialplacestostay.com/search/display.php?FileID=GBB1777
The Bowl Inn
Church Road
Lower Almondsbury
Bristol
BS32 4DT
Tel: 01454 619910
http://www.thebowlinn.co.uk/
The Aztec Hotel
Aztec West Business Park
Almondsbury
Bristol
BS32 4TS
Tel: 01454 201090
Harts House (used to belong to Tony Hart, creator of "Morph")
Gloucester Rd
Almondsbury
Bristol
BS32 4JB
Tel: 01454 625494
Fiona Gayther, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 20, 2004 at 08:56:09 (UTC)
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Heather,
Thanks for the warning, but no problem at all with the timing.
Our weekend trip to Livingstone was flawless and I'd go as far as to say could be used as a case study of how things should be done.
Our flights in and out were on time (flight time one hour twenty from JHB). Arriving at 12h50 in a temperature of 32c, immigration formalities were minimal, and we were whisked off to a comfortable air-conditioned luxury bus for the 20 minute trip to the Zambezi Sun. The hotel is fabulous, and the Royal Livingstone even more so, and the standards achieved in these hotels has to be seen to be believed. The staff are incredible and you just cannot beat the warmth and friendliness of Zambians in general.
The Falls were low as expected, but still an awesome
sight to behold, as was the descent to The Boiling Pot below the bridge, which was buzzing with white water rafters, with bungee jumpers free-falling overhead.
We cruised the river on The African Queen and while on board sampled the best fillet steaks I've eaten since last in Zambia; took The Flight of The Angels in a Eurocopter and had dinner under under lanterns at our own exclusive table on the lawn of The Royal Livingstone, (minutes after watching a procession of elephants, trunk to tail, cross the river, under an African sunset).
The weather was superb and we found time also to lie by the huge pool and to enjoy the chill of it's sparkling waters.
Everything was organised to the last detail and I take my hat off to the tourism people involved, who have against substantial odds, succeeded in putting The Zambian side of the Falls firmly back on the map.
It was great being home and in Arnies immortal words "I'll be back!"
Geoff Paynter, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 20, 2004 at 08:48:12 (UTC)
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Hi All
My brother Robert told me about this site last week. My carefree childhood in Livingstone has been constantly on mind my of late especially after our visits in 2002 and 2003. A group of us 4 x 4 enthusists did a Bostwana trip heading for Livingstone in 2002 and I going back for the first time in 36 years. What a disappointment to see what a total wreck the Convent has become and apparently it was declared a Government school in 1988. The Church is still the same except it has those horrible concrete walls surrounding it. The Mother Mary standing outside is not the original as I believe it was vandalised a few years after independence. The Convent is now in the Location driving out past the Prison. What used to be tarred roads where we used to live is now sandy roads. On another Botwana trip in 2003 and again Livingstone as a destination (with White River Rafting in mind) we were pleased to see that they are finally developing their infrastructure. The road from Kazangula had been newly tarred. The old cementary is in a dilapidated state but my Late Mom's grave is still in a good condition and has not been vandalised. One of the old houses in the main street is operating as an Ocean Basket and it was really great to have lunch there.
Both stays we camped at the Maramba Camping site which is really beautiful.
The Vic Falls bought back found memories and the evening cruise on the Zambezi reminded my of the old Greenway Launch (which my late father used to service). I remember every weekend my Gran used to take us for a drive along the river and our Foxy dogs used to run alongside the car. Swimming in the Zambezi was sheer bliss but kind of scary now that I think about it!
Thank you for such a lovely site and I will be popping in from time to time. It would really be amazing to hear from some old school pals of yesteryear.
Romy (Rose)
Romy - Rosemary Kloppers, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 20, 2004 at 08:14:24 (UTC)
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Happy Birthday Yunus!
Had a look at your truck connections in the favourite links - the trucks. Looked at all the events - never knew people held so many celebrations around trucks. And that mercedes and leyland and scania truck racing - all those souped up big rig cabs, pretty spectacular as you can tell from:
http://www.chrishodgetrucks.co.uk/pager/picturegallery.htm
the slide show at the left of the page gives a good indication of what a rush this must be.
I have only encountered truck racers of the unofficial, fully loaded variety across New Mexico and Arizona. These can be quite hairy but they nearly always get pulled into the pits by state troopers before they can do any real damage.
Tina Magee, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, September 20, 2004 at 03:21:27 (UTC)
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Yunus
Same to you!
Cheers - Doug
Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 19, 2004 at 20:16:17 (UTC)
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HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!
FOR ALL BORN ON THE
19th SEPTEMBER
HAVE A FANTASTIC DAY
Yunus Badat, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Sunday, September 19, 2004 at 14:23:03 (UTC)
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Alix I also love a Blowie.
Johnny, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 19, 2004 at 13:55:48 (UTC)
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Jilly and Doug..........
Oh for Chameleons here........"the land of the blowie"......I have always loved them........!!!!
Ali Key, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 19, 2004 at 11:18:56 (UTC)
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Northern Rhodesia Shirts
As I mentioned here recently, Bill McDonald at Rhodesia Was Super has started producing custom embroidered apparel bearing the Northern Rhodesian flag and/or shield. I have a golf shirt with both the flag and the shield embroidered on it; it is very nice and the quality of both the shirt and the embroidery is very good. Click the link below to see a picture of the shirt:
He is also doing rugby jerseys, and you can see everything (including prices and special offers) at the following links:If you make an order, be sure to use the discount code "Bulawayo" when asked to get a 15% discount.
Craig Hartnett, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Sunday, September 19, 2004 at 11:14:40 (UTC)
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Chris,
While the spam and privacy issues are related, the "stroppiness" to which I refer has more to do with the consumer protection branches of governments protecting consumers from having their personal information shared and/or sold to all comers. While the GNR does not sell, lend, give away or otherwise distribute the information submitted to the site by members, it is available to anyone who wants to look at it through the Web site, with obvious exceptions such as e-mail addresses; that and the fact that we collect information in the first place means we are subject to whatever laws govern data collection.
That may sound vague, and it is, simply because I am not a lawyer. What I glean from my industry reading, in between doing the more pressing actual work required to run my business on a daily basis, is that data and its collection, use, storage, dissemination and disposal is becoming a big issue because of the ease with which those activities are carried out in the electronic age -- or, more correctly, the Internet epoch of the electronic age. While I don't have a copy of some act of parliament or congress on my desk next to my technical reference books, I am exercising what I consider to be due diligence, and what I would hope other site owners would do for me if I joined their sites. By exercising some due diligence I hope (to be selfish for a moment) to cover my butt and that of my business (read "source of my income") so that if someone does ever decide to look at our benign group and/or my business, I can't be accused of being completely oblivious to, or ignorant or contemptuous of the issues.
By doing all of this I also hope to attract more members who might otherwise not join, so that this site gets better and better. In my wanderings over the last couple of years meeting GNR members in Zambia, the UK, Australia, the US and Canada, I have run into a surprising number of people who know about the GNR and read the message board but have not joined. Although I appealed to those people a couple of months ago to tell me why they haven't joined, none responded; so in guessing why some people might not join I have come up with a few possible reasons, one of which is the possibility that some people don't join because of the fact that too much of their personal information will be available on the Internet. To make the site more attractive to anyone who might fall into that category, I am making some of the more personal information available to members only. That said, this site would not exist if the non-member public (which includes members-to-be and search engines) could not access the information on the site, so a lot of information will remain public. Also, part of what I want to do is give each member control over what they want made public, so if someone wants to make public all the things I plan to protect, then they will be able to do so by simply clicking a check box in their Directory entry; if that's part of your concern with free speech then that should satisfy it.
Getting further off topic, people have proposed a "do not e-mail registry" registry like the "do not call registry". However, for so many technical and logistical reasons it couldn't work.
Craig Hartnett, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Sunday, September 19, 2004 at 11:13:51 (UTC)
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Hi Doug,
hope you've had a good day and have a generous Amarula on us many happy returns Bryan and Anja
Bryan Baker, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 19, 2004 at 11:12:12 (UTC)
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Bill
When you talk about Hendry van Vuuren, or maybe we should say 'Chinyamulilo the second,' you open not a story but a whole book. Hendry was a notorious naughty boy but in a lovable way. I don't think he ever caused anybody any harm, but for shameless teasing he was the champ.
One day he was with a group of pals at the Mufulira swimming pool and decided he was going to tune up a new chick. Hendry's proposals were directly to the point (and not about marriage) and the chick told him to voetsek because she was a virgin. He received this with hysterical laughter and announced loudly to the world that all the virgins in Mufulira could fit into a telephone booth.
He also once flashed a monty at a crowded dance at the mine club after a dare but nobody took any notice. Must have been dissappointing.
I wonder if he ever got as far as Kitwe and met some of those Kitwe buns. Then there would have been fireworks.
Cheers - Doug
Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 19, 2004 at 10:23:41 (UTC)
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Thanks to all those kind people who given me birthday wishes. As I said once before I feel that I now have more NRZam friends than I did when I actually lived there.
Jilly
I also used to make pets of chamelions. When you first catch them they get very cross and start puffing themselves up and turning black. The area just below their chin swells up as they load their tongue for a strike. If you stroke this area gently they relax and become tame.
I would then carry them around in my hand and aim them at a fly on a window pane and they would soon get the idea, shoot out their tongue and zap the fly. It saves a fortune on Doom spray and is ecologically friendly. When not in use they can be stored on the mossy screens. This often used to give my Mom and the servants heart attacks when they drew the curtains and were confronted with a hissing mini-dinosaur.
Cheers - Doug
Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 19, 2004 at 10:01:07 (UTC)
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Doug
Happy Birthday to the Murundu Mawler!
When is your book relating to all the Glen/Grewar shennanigans in Mokambo going to surface?
Did you ever get up to any nonsense with Shitter-of- Fire van Vuuren's adopted son Henry?
Thereby must hang some exotic tales if you did!!
regards
Bill
Bill Hunt, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 19, 2004 at 08:26:17 (UTC)
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Hi All
While surfing National Geographic I came accross this picture which you can download as a wallpaper. Instructions are included on how to do it.
The picture is of Wildebeests at sunset in the Liuwa Plain National Park in Zambia.
Click on this link. NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC WEEKLY WALLPAPER
Cheers
Philip Pain, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 19, 2004 at 06:58:08 (UTC)
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Memories of an African Childhood
Tina and I were sharing childhood memories and she told me I had to post these - my Dad was in the British Army at this stage. Perhaps rather more Kenyane than Germane (I also lived in Germany)
I wish I could remember more of my childhood growing up in Kenya – it’s all a bit of a blur, but I do remember all the times we were posted all over the place and could never keep too many things – and no ‘real’ pets. We would pack our ‘treasures’ in wooden boxes and then get sent on our way by plane. Our boxes would proceed by boat and sometimes took about six months to get to the new place. Then it was great fun opening the crates and being surprised and excited to get to the stuff we had almost forgotten. The crates then became hutches for rabbits and guinea pigs! I also remember hearing hyaenas scuffling around at night trying to liberate my bunnies for their midnight feasts! I used to be terrified of them because my folks were too scared to go out and chase the little darlings away! Sometimes my bunnies managed to last a whole six months before some wily hyaena managed to open the crates.
And pets – Jackson’s Chameleons were my fave pets – with their three horns – very attractive and easy to catch and keep. I used to keep them in my Dad’s car during the week (my Dad was terrified of them) and then secrete them at weekends with some friends. Dad always used army transport during the week, and then we went motoring on the weekends. One Sunday I couldn’t find my biggest chameleon in the car and I thought he had escaped via the small gaps in the windows. I gathered up the rest of the clan and took them to a neighbour – and off we went for a drive to the escarpment. Just as we were approaching a rather hair-raising bend – my big chameleon started climbing up my Dad’s arm! How we never died in the ensuing mayhem, I will never know! I also managed to save the chameleon from my parents’ wrath and released the big fella into the bundu!
Jilly
Jill Aplin, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 19, 2004 at 05:29:30 (UTC)
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THE MFAZIS OF MAYHEM MULTIPLY!
JUST WHEN YOU THOUGHT IT WAS SAFE.....
The "English Electrifiers" Fiona Gayther and Diane Sewley will be joining forces with the "Texas Tornadoes" Linda Hayes and Tina Magee once again as the full contingent of "THE MFAZIS OF MAYHEM."
The numbers for the Tytherington Tiyende are growing, so if you even think you might want to join us, PLEASE contact either Fiona Gayther or Linda Hayes so we can make a decision about whether it will be at Fiona's house or a local pub in Tytherington.
DON'T SAY WE NEVER WARNED YOU!
Linda Hayes, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 19, 2004 at 03:34:57 (UTC)
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Hi Chris...
With Aeroplan you can at times transfer points from one account to another but at 2 cents a point - definitely not worth it.
I my case the ticket is booked directly from the person I buy points from account but the ticket is issued in my name.
Peter Dielissen, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, September 19, 2004 at 02:17:32 (UTC)
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Tks Craig. Who are the "Authorities" who are getting stroppy? Are you referring to the US Dept of Whatever, who are trying to stamp out Spam? And can they really go after a benign group such as this? I registered immediately with the national Do Not Call Register, but that has done diddly squat to the boiler room operators. I wish the "authorities" would really go after the phone bank companies, but then I can also see a little light from the other side - free speech and all that!
Just curious.
Chris Tamm, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Sunday, September 19, 2004 at 01:06:56 (UTC)
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Good information thanks Pete. The piece that was news to me was "buying" miles from others? Can a frequent flier account holder merely call the Airline with whom the miles are accumulated and say - please transfer x miles to the account of Pete Deliessen?
As you know, Hawaii is at the furthest possible location from our old fatherland. (That is for the benefit of Ms Sleutel) and flying the almost 15,000 statute miles from here to there becomes an important financial issue. The best I have been able to find in recent years is $1,350 from Honolulu to Cape Town, but the average is more like $1,900. One can do even better than that but must be preared to fly on airlines like Kenya Airways etc. Flying those distances also becomes important as regards frequent flier miles. I accumulate with American Airlines who, through their assocation with BA, Qantas, Hawaiian, and a load of others, can get us virtually anywhere. In January I went to Jersey - 40,000 frequent flier miles from Hilo. Yes, I do pay any and all willing suppliers to our business by credit card. Even our phone bills at work and at home earn a mile for every dollar spent. It does not take lond for another 35,000 mile freebie to have one of our kids visit us from the mainland. A simple business trip to the West Coast earns about 5,500 miles, Dallas about 7,500 miles, and about 10,000 to the East Coast. One might wonder by how much the airlines could reduce regular fares if they were to ever abandon the frequent mileage programs??
I may have joked before here, but if I were to start digging a hole here in Hilo, a really very deep hole, I would surface in Cecil Square. Talk about being as far away as possible? If I were to go any further, I would get closer. Spare that thought!
Chris Tamm, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Sunday, September 19, 2004 at 00:23:54 (UTC)
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Chris,
I have had some people express concerns to me about the amount of information publicly available on the GNR, on top of which various regulators are getting stroppy about such things -- so I am in the process of making certain information available only to members. Towns/cities and provinces/states/counties etc. have been completely eliminated from the message board henceforth, although they are still on the archived message boards and in the Names Directory. Once my privacy project is finished (end of September) and I have finished making some other changes to the message board (end of October), protected information simply won't appear until a member has logged in -- it will be a seamless process. Because of the nature of the changes I am making to the way the message board will work, the extra location information will again appear if a member is logged in, but will not be visible to the general public. Between now and then only the poster's country will show.
For those who are worried about my plans for the message board -- don't panic! I think I actually have a solution that will keep everyone happy, by allowing those who like threaded message boards to see the board that way and those who like it the way it is now to see it that way. It will also dispense with the onerous task that is loading the message board for the second half of the month.
Craig Hartnett, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Sunday, September 19, 2004 at 00:06:36 (UTC)
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Hi Chris...
Yes, I'll share my routing and price information:
May 31 - Fredericton - Montreal - Frankfurt - Johannesburg
June 10 - Johannesburg - Frankfurt - Montreal - Fredericton
Fredericton - Montreal - Fredericton on Air Canada.
Montreal - Frankfurt - Johannesburg - Frankfurt - Montreal on Lufthansa.
I am waiting to book into Zambia until the re-union location is finalized.
Flying First Class on Lufthansa!!!
Cost = $3,000 canadian = $2,250US.
I purchased 240,000 Aeroplan points (Star Alliance) from a guy for $3,000canadian and booked from his Aeroplan account directly. I just did the same routing on Expedia = $16,187 canadian = $12,140us.
A regular economy ticket is about $1,750us.
I found this guy by just asking around. He is a building contractor and gets these points by charging all his building materials on his Air Canada VISA card.
One drawback of airline points is that there are only a few seats allocated to points travel on each flight (else the whole flight could be taken up with freebies). Consequently you will have a hard time booking flights leaving on say short notice or holidays like Thanksgiving and Xmas. You can book about 11 months and 20 days ahead.
The contractor who sold me the points takes vacation on very short notice - usually when there is no work so points do not work for him. I have a line on about 500,000 more Aeroplan points and can probably find more if I try.. I am trying to get two tickets for my wife and I to Australia and New Zealand in April 2005 but unable to get either business class or first class. I can get one ticket for all legs but two for only about half of them. So now we'll go in 2006 and book in April 2005.
I know United is a Star Alliance member and flies in and out of Hawaii. I am not sure if there is a VISA card affiliated with United Airlines that you can use in your business. You can also ask your business buddies if they know a frequent United Airlines flyer who does not want his points.
The going rate in Canada is around 1.5 cents canadian per Aeroplan point. I haggled a bit because the number of points was large.
Last year I flew to Perth Australia and New Zealand in Business Class for 100,000 Aeroplan points for which I paid $1,000us. The airfare was around $7,000us.
You'd be amazed how many people have points they cannot use because of family and or job committments. Ask around - I made my last connection through a loans guy at the bank.
Good luck!
Peter Dielissen, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, September 18, 2004 at 23:06:25 (UTC)
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Re: Chinyerenzi and the Red Ants
Looking back on my childhood things were pretty idylic, we grew bananas, guavas, mangoes, avocados, mulberries, lemons, and paw paws in the back garden, and I had a multitude of other trees in which to make treehouses and "camps", but as always, there was trouble in paradise.... mom always kept a menagerie of wild and semi wild animals, (including a bush baby for 6 months, we had found it injured on the road), and she also insisted on keeping an assortment of rather bedraggled hens. One by one these sorry specimens of fowl met hideous fates, (being torn to pieces by our guard dogs, stolen, one was stoned to death by a couple of well aimed rocks as it rather misguidedly roosted 15 feet up a mulberry bush, (the rock throwers were caught and had their heads bashed together by our irate cook, as Patricia the hen was a rather good layer), a couple got dispatched by fast drivers with bad eyesight, but the worst fate awaited poor Lucille.
A very unpleasant looking hen, (almost bald, with stress probably), she was the sole survivor of our brood, and actually managed to produce and sit on 3 large eggs. We built her a sturdy coop, and as she sat trustfully on her nest, we locked her in, and just to make sure, rammed a concrete block against the door of the coop. In the morning my mom was alarmed to hear hysterical screams coming from the direction of the garage where the coop was situated.....I had gone to check on Lucille and the eggs, to find her covered in red ants, and very dead. It still haunts me that in making sure Lucille was totally "safe", we were in part responsible for her grizly end. A Fowl tale indeed. Hope I havnt ruffled any feathers....Megz
Meg Rybicki, Ireland [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, September 18, 2004 at 22:51:17 (UTC)
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Making mountains out of molehills Arfur?
Tina Magee, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, September 18, 2004 at 21:25:41 (UTC)
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Craig,
I notice you have eliminated the posters town. Was that oversight? or is there a concern you were addressing?
Chris Tamm, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Saturday, September 18, 2004 at 21:13:34 (UTC)
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Yukon Pete,
Well done that man. As a matter of interest, what is your route/airline selection, and would you mind sharing with us what such a ticket runs?
Chris Tamm, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Saturday, September 18, 2004 at 21:10:34 (UTC)
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Northerners...
I just booked my flights for the re-union!
Peter Dielissen, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, September 18, 2004 at 20:52:28 (UTC)
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Arthur,
No honey, you know I always go braless.
Craig Hartnett, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Saturday, September 18, 2004 at 19:42:54 (UTC)
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Craig
You want publicity and to be famous?
OK
Are you wearing a bra under that t-shirt ?
Arthur Steevens, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Saturday, September 18, 2004 at 19:21:49 (UTC)
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Arthur,
When I am rich and famous (any day now) remind me not to use you for my publicity agent.
Craig Hartnett, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Saturday, September 18, 2004 at 19:12:11 (UTC)
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Doug
Happy Birthday !
Craig
You got up early for another photo?
Arthur
Arthur Steevens, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Saturday, September 18, 2004 at 17:54:31 (UTC)
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Ali, Tina, Linda,
Thanks. Ali, my dad, who took the picture, said I look truculent in this picture, which is probably what you were implying too. :) Will post more about the shirt later.
Craig Hartnett, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Saturday, September 18, 2004 at 17:11:13 (UTC)
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HAPPY BIRTHDAY DUGRESS GREWHAIR
Hi Doug:
Sorry, an old flame of yours asked me to post that on her behalf and behiney... oops.
Hope you have a fabulous birthday. You are a true gentleman with a huge following on this board. Hopefully I will get to meet you in person in Siavonga next year.
Craig
Great enhancements yet again. What a super star! Pity you can't make it to the Mfazis of Mayhem Madness in November. We would have shown you a great time...
Linda Hayes, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, September 18, 2004 at 17:00:32 (UTC)
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Honey Badgers
I have just read an interesting article about Honey Badgers, and have learned that they are immune to snake bites..even puff adders........scientists are still trying to learn about the badgers physiology and what makes them tick !!!
Ali Key, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, September 18, 2004 at 12:59:37 (UTC)
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Craig.......aka "Rocky"
Nice picture of you.........sort of has that look of " I can see you, so don't misbehave!!!!..............
Ali Key, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, September 18, 2004 at 08:59:18 (UTC)
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Jilly..... Please give my Birthday wishes to Otto.....
Ali Key, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, September 18, 2004 at 08:56:39 (UTC)
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just found this....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/september/18/newsid_3790000/3790079.stm
1961: UN Secretary General Dag Hammarskjold killed in air crash
Ali Key, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, September 18, 2004 at 08:54:05 (UTC)
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DOUG
A very happy birthday to a real gentleman! Must be something to do with this date - Otto's half a hundred today and he's also wonderful, just like you.
Hugs,
Jilly
Jill Aplin, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, September 18, 2004 at 08:31:49 (UTC)
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Rocky
You've been busy. Thanks for the hard work.
Doug
Enjoy your kufyalwa bushiku! Hope David, Andy, and Barry have great birthdays too.
Tina Magee, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, September 18, 2004 at 07:52:43 (UTC)
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Morning Doug
Happy birthday to you!! I hope you have a great one and maningi more! And you are too much nice too!!!! (at least I got the day right haha)
Fiona Gayther, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, September 18, 2004 at 07:10:35 (UTC)
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Many Happy Returns Douglas and may you have many more of them , Johnny.
Johnny, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, September 18, 2004 at 07:06:24 (UTC)
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HAPPY BIRTHDAY DOUG......MAY YOU HAVE MANY MANY MORE, HAVE A WONDERFUL DAY.........
Ali Key, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, September 18, 2004 at 06:51:20 (UTC)
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Doug Grewar, David Vere, Andy Worrill, Barry Davies
Best wishes on your birthday
Heather Chalcraft, Zambia [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Saturday, September 18, 2004 at 06:28:03 (UTC)
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Recent Site Updates:
September 18th, 2004:- Updated the picture submission instructions to reflect the fact that pictures submitted for posting on the message board should be sent to Heather and not Arthur until further notice.
- Reformatted the signatures under messages posted on the message board to add a link to the poster's Web site (if the member has entered the address of the site into his/her Names Directory entry), and to remove maiden and former names and geographical information more specific than the name of the country where the poster lives. This is part of a move to make more of the information provided to the GNR by members more private. Once this project is complete, certain information will be available only to other GNR members (after they have logged in) and not the general public. If you want to include more (or less) than your first and last name in your message board signature, you can log in to edit your entry and enter your desired signature in the "board name" field.
- Various minor updates to the "Contributing to this Site" and "About this Site" pages.
- All archived message boards are once again available to members and the design of the archives page has been improved. To view message boards prior to April 2002 you will need to log in with your GNR user ID and password, because these older message boards used raw e-mail addresses. That said, the e-mail addresses have all been "broken" in an attempt to stymie automated collection by possible spammers and, more likely, members with computers infected with virii and/or worms.
- The old Names Directory (pre-August 2001) has officially been completely deactivated and a helpful error message put in place. While we hoped to make this available once again after it was temporarily deactivated following a move to a new server in June 2003, we decided not to reactivate it for a few reasons:
- Most members who were in the old Directory are now in the current Directory,
- While it might have been nice to keep the old Directory as a sort of on-line museum documenting the early days of the GNR (when the World Wide Web was still quite new to the public), the cons outweighed the pros in this case as it might only have served to confuse the hundreds of new members who have joined since the old Directory was replaced, and it wouldn't have been very useful because much of the contact information is probably out of date, and
- While our original concern was that spammers might get the e-mail addresses in the old Directory, the proliferation of virii and worms that collect e-mail addresses from Web pages browsed by infected computers effectively sealed the old Directory's fate.
- Implemented a (hopefully) more useful and noticeable system of section menus at the top of the pages of identifiable sections of the site. These menus contain links associated with that section of the site, as well as links to other parts of the site that are most often used -- such as the password-retrieval form.
- Updated the message board notes and tips page.
- Incorporated the message board log into the site.
- Added information to the site's contact page to make it more clear that the form is for contacting site management only, not for posting messages to the message board or for members to contact one another.
- These updates are phase one of a two- or three-phase overhaul of the Names Directory and the message board to address privacy, usability and design issues, many of which have been brought up by members over the last few months. There is much more already in the works.
Craig Hartnett, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Saturday, September 18, 2004 at 04:56:57 (UTC)
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Craig
Thank you for your magic ways...........
Ali Key, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, September 18, 2004 at 00:44:38 (UTC)
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Linda,
I can see that nothing escapes you. :)
Bill,
Yes, A Bush Telegraph by E.C. Pullon arrived last week and it now sits with an eclectic mix of other books (eight of them) waiting to be read. I have skimmed through it and it looks quite interesting, exactly the sort of book that I know a lot of people posting here could write. Thanks for your help in obtaining it.
Craig Hartnett, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Friday, September 17, 2004 at 23:56:36 (UTC)
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Craig
Checked out your Web site test.
Very Impressive. Well done!
Did you manage to get the Eric Pullen Book?
regards Bill
Bill Hunt, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, September 17, 2004 at 21:08:39 (UTC)
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Craig:
By any chance were you running a test?
Linda Hayes, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, September 17, 2004 at 21:00:47 (UTC)
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OK, this is really the last test!
Craig Hartnett, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Friday, September 17, 2004 at 19:04:48 (UTC)
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Last test.
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Canada
Friday, September 17, 2004 at 18:37:25 (UTC)
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Chinyerezi,
It wasn't the ants - the roosters were using condoms.
Glen Drake [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
United States
Friday, September 17, 2004 at 18:24:21 (UTC)
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Testing again to see if the new feature is working this time. :)
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Canada
Friday, September 17, 2004 at 18:13:03 (UTC)
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Sue,
You're welcome. I had a feeling that we had talked about Trafford before actually.
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Canada
Friday, September 17, 2004 at 18:06:02 (UTC)
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About the red ants again
I used ti live at a farm in Kabwe with my parents. I experienced several invasions by red ants of various descriptions.
We raised chickens there among other things. One incident that comes to my mind was one of these invasions of the (layers chickens that lay eggs).
The red ants appeared to travel all over the eggs in the "nest". The chickens were removed one by one and their legs were dipped in parafin.
The amazin thing was that when we checked the eggs they were very light. They were totally empty. But there were not cracks. The ants had sucked all the contents out.
Has anyone had a similar experience?
Chinyerezi Chintu
Chinyerezi Chintu [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hemel Hempstead Hertfordshire, United Kingdom
Friday, September 17, 2004 at 17:50:10 (UTC)
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TYTHERINGTON TIYENDE
We've been getting an excellent response to the Tytherington Tiyende so far, so much so that it looks like we may have to move to a bigger location. If you are thinking about coming please contact Linda asap. I can help with hotels and accommodation so if you need to know where to stay, contact me and I would be more than happy to help.
Fiona Gayther (née Ferguson) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tytherington, Gloucestershire, United Kingdom
Friday, September 17, 2004 at 17:40:09 (UTC)
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Moira Fenwick
Where did you stay when you where in Kitwe?
Did you stay in 3rd avenue in Nkana, opposite Rita Nell? I seem to know your name.
Nicky Kontou [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Friday, September 17, 2004 at 15:56:53 (UTC)
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Hey Ken Millar, it is so good to have you back!! I had a smile at your posting about Saints hair cuts. In fact I think all your stories over the years of life at St Stephens have been hilarious - and sometimes sad - so why dont you do an Alexandra Fuller and put it all down in a book? It could be called "Balding in Balla Balla". You could make a fortune - (look at the success of fellow Scot, Alexander Mcall Smith and his little detective lady in Botswana) - and bring delight to thousands of readers!
Take care.
Bridget
Bridget Billany [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Blackburn, Lancashire, England
Friday, September 17, 2004 at 08:47:45 (UTC)
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Hello
So now we have Colin Gray, the famous Copperbelt guitarist with us. It has taken several years to locate him but thanks to this site and with Chris Sysums help he has been found in Cape Town.
The next object is to convince him and the other ex- Kansenji pupils to come to Saivonga in June. I have been given permission to go and this will be my first visit since ´72.
Now I challenge you Colin. Let your first contribution to this board be the story when you and the late great Michael Corbishley went swimming in the flooded lime quarry outside Ndola. A title suggestion could be "Streaking through Ndola"
Regards,
HM
Hans Mattsson [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Uppsala, Sweden
Friday, September 17, 2004 at 08:03:13 (UTC)
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For the people who like to start the day with a smile'FiFI translated this one for me from Afrikaans she also said she thought it was --- p I loved it.
The police receive a call for help
"Please help. A cat has climbed up through the window"
"What do you mean a cat?"
"a cat! A bl---y cat. Here he comes for me"
"are you telling me a joke? Who am I speaking to said the policeman?
The $""**G parrot" was the reply
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Friday, September 17, 2004 at 07:21:02 (UTC)
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Thanks Heather and Craig,
All advice appreciated and gratefully accepted/noted and if not already acted upon, utilized. But Trafford - done. TA
Sue Coughlan (née Forde) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, WA, Australia
Friday, September 17, 2004 at 07:18:36 (UTC)
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Sue and Heather,
Heather, the on-demand publisher to which you refer is Trafford Publishing. Not sure if that was one of the "obvious" choices Sue, other than a photocopier and stapler. :) Good luck with it.
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Friday, September 17, 2004 at 06:02:13 (UTC)
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Tony Bruce, Jan Hill, Dawn Thomson
Best wishes on your birthday
Sue Coughlan
Richard Sampson, who wrote 'So This Was Lusaakas' and various other books, recently published a book, 'With Sword And Chain In Lusaka'. If I recall correctly, it was a small publishing house which basically did a small run of the book and then almost printed individual copies thereafter. My copy of this book is at home and I am in the office, but will let you have the details or will let you have Richard's email address.
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Friday, September 17, 2004 at 05:27:33 (UTC)
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Ken Miller Great to see you posting again.........you have been missed !!
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Friday, September 17, 2004 at 01:32:04 (UTC)
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Every time the legendary stories of The Hangman resurface on the GNR, Len Catchpole (the son) and I have a good chuckle in private emails over them.
You out there.. lurking as usual.. Len?
Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Friday, September 17, 2004 at 00:50:28 (UTC)
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Hanging Around ......
Robert, in the late 1940s my Dad, Tommy Miller was the Prison Officer in charge of His Majesty's Prison in Lusaka.
A european prisoner had been convicted of murder and was scheduled to hang in the Prison in Livingston. My Dad escorted the prisoner on the train, I believe the fellow was from the Copperbelt, no one in Lusaka would have comitted such a crime. Jack Catchpole was a traveling companion on the train trip to Livingston.
Dad spent a couple of weeks on death watch, Jack never hung the poor guy who had his sentince overturned at the last minute by Sir Gilbert Rennie the then Govenor of Northern Rhodesia.
Kenneth Miller [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Thursday, September 16, 2004 at 23:30:35 (UTC)
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Hair Raising Experience:
As a boarder in the early sixties, the most terrifying sound that I would encounter during my internment at St. Stephen's College in Balla Balla was the shrill bellow of the school barbers shouting hysterically " Neeeext".
Once a month the sons of the famous and infamous would grudgingly line up outside a class room that had been converted into a hair salon and shuffle dejectedly as lambs to the slaughter towards the the dregs of humanity that smelt of brandy and stale cigarette smoke. The barbers.
When our appointed time arrived, each one of us sat in the chair, choked as a dirty white cloth was tightly tied around our neck and waited. Then out of nowhere his calloused left hand with dirty yellow nicotined fingers holding the ever present O.K. brand of cigarette would grab you at the crown of your skull and try and impale you to the seat. With the bluish grey smoke slowly rising from your head, he would mockingly ask " so what will it be to-day ?" Then without waiting for you reply, his right hand armed with a dull hand operated set of clippers would race from the nape of your neck towards the top of your head pulling tufts of hair along the way.
The whole ordeal felt like a life time, but in reality was probably no longer than 57 seconds. When the shearing was complete, the barber would remove the dirty white cloth, give it a shake, took a drag of his stompie then shouted "Neeeext". The line would shuffle and another victim would sit in the chair.
Kenneth Miller [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Thursday, September 16, 2004 at 23:17:32 (UTC)
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A small correction on the Elephant and Castle owner, Len Catchpole. He was a buiding contractor as well as a hotelier, but never a hangman. That occupation belonged to his brother Jack who also worked part-time behind the bar when he wasn't "hanging around Broken Hill" (the centre of the Universe).
Robert Summers [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Dayton, Ohio, United States
Thursday, September 16, 2004 at 22:15:50 (UTC)
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Hi di hi peeps - Moi Moo Five Cows here!!
Apologies for radio silence but what can I say, no excuse apart from busy, busy, busy and it’s tough having to work for a living, but those cows do need milking on a regular basis!
Anyhow, just wanted to say a big hello and send you all a cyber hug along with many thanks for my birthday good wishes. Another year older, wiser and still growing old disgracefully!
By the way, I’ve had ‘foot in mouth’ disease for years!!! Done me no harm, and I can even manage to change feet occasionally and upset the half that I missed first time!
Linda, Fi, et al - Glenda and I will be there on 27 November and look forward to a good catch up.. Johnny – I’m greasing the pole as we speak!
Cheerio my lovelies.
Moimoo
Moira Fenwick [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Dorking, Surrey, England
Thursday, September 16, 2004 at 15:41:22 (UTC)
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Bryan Baker
The Hangman and his 'goings on' feature in a very good story written by Comdr Don Bruce - ex NRP. It's the first of a trilogy and we're trying to find a publisher. Anyone out there know anyone who can help? ( Yes - we've tried the obvious. ) It will also make a cracking film!
Arthur
Nice to hear that your business is doing so well. We'll miss you, but food and shelter come first. Thank you for all you've done.
Linda & Fiona,
Well done girls - getting another 'bash' together. Enjoy!
Sue Coughlan (née Forde) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, WA, Australia
Thursday, September 16, 2004 at 15:17:43 (UTC)
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Cilla d'Elbee, Rae Sunlay, Michael Frenking
Best wishes on your birthday
Paul
On a couple of occasions, over the last two or three years, I have, when driving through Kafue town, seen an old Wolseley on the road; moving, albeit very slowly. If I ever see it again, do you want me to stop them and ask them if they want to sell it?
Geoff
Your timing is terrible - on 9 October, there will be a regatta at Livingstone to commemorate the one that took place in 1904. Participants include 3 gold medalists from the Olympics - Ed Coode from Athens in the Coxless Fours and Andrew Lindsay and Luka Grubba in the Eights at Sydney and various teams from South Africa
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Thursday, September 16, 2004 at 13:41:21 (UTC)
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Hi everyone,
a while back someone did ask about the 'Elephant & Castle' Pub in Ndola. It was run/ owned by Len Catchpole, who was also the official hangman. There was also a policeman endeared himself to many people by spending evenings there and when an inebriated patron staggered out to the car. As the patron put the key in the car, the policeman would book him for being drunk in charge.
Took me a long time to remember Len's name. It had to be there somewhere not forgotten as he once sold me a van that didn't make it past Kapiri Mposhi. Mutta Mutta Mutta!
Bryan
Ps: Still have got the (working,if I can get the right globes) slide projector (Norris) that I bought from Gibson's Chemists in Ndola 1961. Question: Does it make me a "Veteran Collector"?
Johnny,
like your jokes, even my wife had more than a smile on her face.
Ali and other Perth based members,
you are welcome to tootle up Red Hill to Gidgegannup to visit us and our hedge-hopping friends.
Regards Bryan & Anja
Robert,
got a few pictures of the Transvaal which I post as soon as they are sorted out.
Bryan Baker [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Western Australia, Australia
Thursday, September 16, 2004 at 13:38:35 (UTC)
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The not so dumb blonde.
June sent me this one for the smilers.
--------------------------------------
I Urgently needed a few days holiday but because I never had any leave due to me, I knew the Boss
would not allow me to take a few days leave.
I thought that maybe if I acted "Mad" then he would tell me to take a few days off. So I hung upside down from the ceiling and made funny noises.
My co-worker (who's blonde) asked me what I was doing ? I told her that I was pretending to be a
light bulb so that the Boss would think I was "Mad" and give me a few days off.
A few minutes later the Boss came into the office and asked "What are you doing ?"
I told him I was a light bulb.
He said "You are Mad - take a few days off". I jumped down and walked out of the office.
When my co-worker (the blonde) followed me, the Boss asked her "...And where are you going?" She said
"I can't work in the dark !!!!"
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Thursday, September 16, 2004 at 07:08:57 (UTC)
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For the smilers.
A man and his wife were having an argument about who should brew the coffee each morning.
The wife said, "You should do it, because you
get up first, and then we don't have to wait as long to get our coffee."
The husband said, " You are in charge of cooking around here and you should do it, because that is your job, and I can just wait for my coffee."
Wife replies, "No, you should do it, and besides, it is in the Bible that the man should do the coffee." Husband replies, "I can't believe that, show me."
So she fetched the Bible, and opened the New Testament and showed him at the top of several pages, that it indeed says....
"HEBREWS"
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Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Thursday, September 16, 2004 at 06:40:00 (UTC)
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Whew! It'a a bit large, but then again, I never did do anything in a small way.. grin.
Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Thursday, September 16, 2004 at 01:47:27 (UTC)
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Pleeeeeese let this html work or I am dead meat..
IT’S ABOUT TIME WE HAD A BASH!
READY FOR SOME BOERWORS AND BOOZE?
Fiona Gayther and Linda Hayes invite you to
“THE TYTHERINGTON TIYENDE”
(A Pommie Braai with an African Theme)
Saturday, November 27, 2004
at
Fiona’s Country Home
in
Tytherington
(North of Bristol, just off the M5)
Time: 4:30pm until you drop
Cost: £5-£10 per person t.b.a.
(Yes, we know it’s bloody cold at that time of year, but what better way to keep warm than letting your hair down with friends from near and far?)
We need to know AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, PLEASE if you are interested in coming so that we can plan accordingly. We will be supplying part of the food and drink, but will be asking for a contribution of between £5 - £10 towards the booze, depending on how many people are coming. We also strongly recommend that you bring extra booze. Northerners drink a lot!!
If we get more than 20 people, we will possibly be switching gears to a party room in a local pub, so we need to hear from you NOW! Not "now now, or "just now". We mean "NOW!" :) Fiona is willing to assist with making hotel reservations in the immediate area and work on taxis for the “motherless” at the end of the party.
Please contact Linda Hayes by email so we can set the wheels in motion. Remember, if you are a GNR member, you are never a stranger! Come and have fun with us. Anyone is welcome!
2/3 Of The Mfazis of Mayhem Strike Again!
Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Thursday, September 16, 2004 at 01:45:25 (UTC)
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Was thinking of going to Siavonga reunion,but after all this talk of plane accidents I`m thinking maybe not.Tony Edwards see you in March I think a holiday on the island is off.Ha !ha! count me in for a Siavonga reunion wild horses could not keep me away.
Pappy Papier [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Glasgow, United Kingdom
Wednesday, September 15, 2004 at 20:19:25 (UTC)
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BMargie Martin, Jack Wardell, John Higgs, Roy Thrall, Alan Cross
Best wishes on your birthday
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Wednesday, September 15, 2004 at 17:40:34 (UTC)
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Linda,
Intrigued by the posting fom Umkomaas, I also scrolled down to see what I had missed, and I too was very moved by it and have also cut and pasted it to keep and to send to my daughter in Joburg S.A. and my son in Perth Australia.
Many thanks for posting such a wonderful peice of your work.
Frank.
Frank Yoxall [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Woking, Surrey, England, United Kingdom
Wednesday, September 15, 2004 at 14:12:25 (UTC)
|
Linda...just scrolled down and found your poem...really beautiful, and very touching. I've cut and pated it as a keeper...thank you!
Paul
Paul Cowie [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Umkomaas KZN, South Africa
Wednesday, September 15, 2004 at 09:07:10 (UTC)
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Hi all,
In an effort to recapture the past...ok...I'm a sentimental old slob....I am looking for an Austin A110 or a Wolseley 6/110 circa 63 or 64...preferably built in Rhodesia, but South Africa and UK models are just fine! I would love to resurrect one to her former glory.
I actually had one which was supposed to be delivered to me this weekend, but the twit who "sold" it to me 2 weeks ago got a higher offer and changed his mind....
If anyone knows of ANYONE who might have one of these old beauties in South Africa, please could they contact me via email, or on my cell 0834416122.
Thanks
Paul Cowie
Paul Cowie [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Umkomaas KZN, South Africa
Wednesday, September 15, 2004 at 08:35:32 (UTC)
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Too late for the Livingstone Lark and too early for the Siavonga Stomp, but delighted all the same to be headed for the Vic Falls (staying at the Zambezi Sun) this weekend.
My second visit to Z in two years - must be telling me something!
Geoff Paynter [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Johannesburg, Gauteng, South Africa
Wednesday, September 15, 2004 at 07:25:06 (UTC)
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Artie.
A big thank you for your wonderful work posting everyones pics....you are really appreciated........
Jilly...
Thanks for your great photos too..........
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Wednesday, September 15, 2004 at 02:55:13 (UTC)
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During the last outbreak of Foot and Mouth in the UK to which the London based authorities over- reacted to in the most unbelievable manner, the Scottish Press refered many times to the fact that this was an ongoing problem in many countries, especially South Africa and they had learned to deal with it (without going into the actual procedures as to how) and culls of almost anything on four legs was nonsense, as we all now know. I am unaware of how long South Africa has had this ongoing problem but must admit I was not aware of same or can not recollect this being a subject of any conversations in ajoining SR, although we kept cattle in a limited basis. In the UK we were at least 100 miles from the nearest reported outbreak, (where I live) but were required to disinfect ourselves when we went to play golf, even the trolleys had to be pulled over a pad with some magical potion inpregnated in it to prevent the spread of F&M. Crossing a fence to collect an out of bounds ball was verbodden. Meanwhile the roedeer, foxes, buzzards,badgers and every other creature were exempt , until they got shot! The whole circus was directed with total incompetance by Blair & Co. but is now forgotten by and large as the nation concentrates on sporting achievements or non-achievments.
BOB Well done you jammy sod! Been looking for same for years. Will have to get a copy. Hope you get your Email sorted out soon, will always catch you here. Regards Colin.
Colin Munro [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Oban, Scotland, United Kingdom
Wednesday, September 15, 2004 at 00:50:14 (UTC)
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Fatality Phil:
Lots more planes stay up than crash. You see pilots have this survival instinct...
Africa has the world's most road deaths - World Health Org report 2004-05-07. Judging by the rest of the drivers (not me of course) in Texas it's amazing we have any possum and armadillo left - yet most people keep our wits about us and survive just fine and even have enough clear road behind us to be able to brake safely for the odd chicken-playing squirrel.
And then you know we could all be struck by a meteor or get a staph infection from a paper cut or worse still be stomped to death by a boiling mad frog who had been stuffed in a cup of Bush Tea.
Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Tuesday, September 14, 2004 at 23:38:43 (UTC)
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David Hoyle:
Click on Start, then Programs and find your Norton Antivirus Program in the list of what you have on your computer. Click on the program and across the top you will see "Options". Click on that and you will see "Internet". Under Internet you will see "Email". Under Email you should see two boxes checked:
Scan incoming mail. - Recommended
Scan outgoing mail. - Recommended
Having given you this information, it is followed by a plea. The words "recommended" are there for a purpose. This falls into the same category as recommending that people get their pets spayed or neutered. Please don't open the door for virusii to spread. Keep the boxes checked! :)
Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Tuesday, September 14, 2004 at 22:05:05 (UTC)
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About foot and mouth in NR/Zambia
My dad, Bim, was a vet in NR from 1947 to 1964. Much of his time was taken up trying to control foot and mouth. It keeps coming back. I suspect it has been around in Zambia in one place or another ever since independence.
Wildlife do carry the disease, especially hooved herd animals like buffalo and wildebeest. From time to time you hear of "experts" suggesting the extermination of the wild carriers but I don't believe that that would do anything.
After we left NR we moved to Botswana where the powers that be decided to control the spread of foot and mouth by building a high "game proof" fence the length of the country. On one occasion my dad saw a kudu jump the fence. At this point he decided that the fence really wasn't going to serve much purpose but construction of it continued. The fence has been quite disruptive of regional migration of wildlife but I suspect it hasn't done much to control foot and mouth.
Mark Trevor [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Denare Beach, Saskatchewan, Canada
Tuesday, September 14, 2004 at 20:52:03 (UTC)
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Mike,
Water on Santa Carolina - apparently they now have a diesel pump according to Otto. So - some things have improved!
Philip,
Definitely driving to Siavonga - these aviation types can do what they will - I prefer my Landy!
Jilly
Jill Aplin [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
South Africa
Tuesday, September 14, 2004 at 20:39:42 (UTC)
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Hi again All
Ron asked me a short while ago when I mentioned the access that I had to a paper recycling plant if I had found anymore books of interest.
With the mention of early computers I thought I would share this find with you.
The following summary appeared in a "QUARTERLY REVIEW" published by the world research society in April 1948 so most of you should remember this.
Under the heading of Science the following appeared:-
"Among many developments and discoveries in the various sciences during the first three months of 1948 were the following:
Mechanical "Brain." A new gigantic calculating machine was dedicated to the use of science on January 27, 1948. The machine is called the IBM Selective Sequence Electronic Calculator.
The new calculator was described as follows: It combines "the speed of electronic circuits" with "a memory capacity" and with the necessary controls to apply this speed and capacity to "the most complex problems of science in institutions of learning, in government and industry."
There are many thousands of parts in the machine. Included are 12,500 electronic tubes, 21,400 relays and 40,000 pluggable connections. It's storage capacity is 400,000 digits in tubes, relays and punched tapes. It's reading speed from punched tapes is 140,000 digits a minute; from punched cards, 30,000 digits a minute. There are sixty-six tape reading units and two card reading units.
Instead of spending lifetimes on a single problem, as many had been obliged to do, only a few days or months might be required by the new calculator.
The machine is housed in a huge glass and steel room sixty feet long and twenty feet wide.
For Tina and all those interested in aviation.
From the same book under Aviation
On Jan. 6, an Air France DC-4, enroute from Brussels, crashed at Paris. Fifteen persons were killed.
On Jan. 7, a Coastal Airlines converted C-47 crashed in a Savannah River swamp. It was loaded with Puerto Ricans returning home from New York: 18 were killed.
On Jan. 12, a Dominican DC-3 crashed between Santiago and Barahona, D. R. 31 persons were killed, including the entire Santiago baseball team.
On Jan. 13, an Eastern Air Lines DC-3 crashed near Washington, D. C. Five persons were killed.
On Jan. 21, an Eastern Air Lines Constellation caught fire after a landing accident at Boston, Mass. All 25 persons aboard saved themselves by jumping from the plane.
On Jan. 27, a United States C-47 crashed in the Alps near Digne, France. 12 persons were killed. On Jan. 30, nine Air Force crewmen were killed when their plane crashed near-by after locating the wreck of the C-47.
On Jan. 28, a charted Immigration Services DC-3 exploded and crashed near Coalinga, Calif. 32 persons including 28 Mexican deportees, were killed.
On Jan. 30, a British South American Airways plane was reported missing enroute from the Azores to Bermuda. Air Marshal Sir Arthur Conningham and 31 others were presumed lost.
On Feb. 7, a Miami-bound Eastern Air Lines plane, carrying 63 passengers and crew was brought to a safe landing near Bunnell, Fla. An engine had caught fire and a broken part had torn through the fuselage and killed a steward.
On Feb. 21, a six-engine French commercial seaplane crashed into the sea near Ste. Mere-Eglise, Normandy. 19 persons were killed.
On March 2, a Belgian Sabena DC-3 crashed at London airport. 19 of the 22 passengers and crew were killed.
On March 10, at Chicago, a Miami-bound DC-4 crashed and exploded shortly after take off. The crew of four and eight of the nine passengers died immediately.
On March 12, a North-western Airlines DC-4 crashed on Mt. Sanford, 200 miles northeast of Anchorage, Alaska, enroute from Shanghai to St. Paul. 30 people lost their lives.
On March 18, a U.S. Air Force B-29 crashed at MacDill Field near Tampa, Fla. Ten Air Force fliers were killed.
On March 18, an Army C-47 transport faltered over Berlin. Brig Gen. Telford Taylor, chief P.S. war-crimes prosecutor at Nuremberg, his wife, two other women and five other men took parachutes. They landed in Russian and French sectors of Berlin. All suffered minor injuries. The plane later landed safely in Berlin.
On March 27, an Indian National Airways plane enroute from New Delhi to London, crashed into Mt Cardo, Corsica. all 19 persons aboard were killed.
If that was the first quarter, just think of the rest of the year. definitely drive to Siavonga.
Cheers for now
Philip Pain [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Eshowe, Kwazulu Natal, South Africa
Tuesday, September 14, 2004 at 18:40:32 (UTC)
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Extracted from Times of Oman.
COUPLE DIVORCE OVER FROG IN TEACUP.
A zambian man divorced his wife after he found a frog in his tea. "One time I found frog in a cup of tea she had served me. That is the reason I went for another woman," he told a community court.
The court granted him the divorce, saying it was clear from the evidence presented that the couple's marriage could not be saved.
David Hoyle [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Muscat, Oman
Tuesday, September 14, 2004 at 17:34:10 (UTC)
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Jane
We have, many times in the past, experienced outbreaks of foot and mouth. This does have an effect on the country and especially on the agricultural industry as livestock and meat products cannot cross from province to province. But to be honest, the only effect that most people here encounter are the veterinary checks that they have along the roads as you are not allowed to move meat products from province to province. But, since meat is available throughout the country, there is very seldom a shortage in any one place. It also has its advantages - very few of the tourists that drive into the country buy anything here - they come fully stocked up with food, milk, etc. Perhaps now they will spend some of their money here rather than spending it all in South Africa.
As regards wildlife - buffalo are the ones that will be affected and I can't imagine that there are many buffalo moving from province to province, and if they are crossing provincial boundaries, they are certainly not on long distance trips.
Measures have been put in place and the movement of meat products between provinces has already been banned. However, the herds in each province are being tested and if they are found to be free, the ban will be lifted. This will take a few weeks. For example, if the Lusaka province herds are found to be free of disease, then you will be allowed to move meat products from that province to the other provinces. Vice versa if the herd in a particular province are found to be infected. Usually the worst hit are the farmers in the Southern Province as their main market is in Lusaka.
Also, if my memory serves me correctly, once the initial panic is over, farmers are able to move their animals for slaughter if they obtain the necessary veterinary permits which entails the animals being inspected and animals must also be identifiable and the truck accompanied by a veterinary officer. This will, however, take some months before it happens and as long as the farmers can hold out and have sufficient grazing etc, they will be fine.
Please remember that foot and mouth is almost an annual occurence here, and we certainly will not react in the same way as the UK did with their outbreak. We will take it in our stride, put in place the necessary preventative measures and you will not see the unnecessary wholesale slaughter of animals
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Tuesday, September 14, 2004 at 17:25:47 (UTC)
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Computer help needed.
I use Outlook Express for email services and my Virus protection is Norton. I don't have any problem with either but my computer insists on virus scaning all outgoing mail and sometimes because of local services this creates unreasonable delays in sending mail, especially if the mail includes attachments.
How I can stop my computer from scaning outgoing mail. Obviously I don't want to do anything that removes any protection from incoming mail.
Arthur should I hold sending scanned images of Rhodesian Bank Notes, sorry for the delay but I only finished doing them last weekend.
David Hoyle [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Muscat, Oman
Tuesday, September 14, 2004 at 17:23:32 (UTC)
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Foot and mouth perhaps not the only problem . . . . . . .
LUSAKA (Reuters) - Zambian police have arrested a man who exhumed, cooked and ate part of his grandson's corpse, police said Monday. Police spokeswoman Brenda Muntemba said a hunter found the man eating pieces of flesh in a graveyard in Milambo, 600 km (370 miles) north of the capital Lusaka. "The man exhumed a corpse and cut off some flesh which he cooked in a pot and started eating ... we went to the grave of his grandson and verified that he had exhumed the body," Muntemba told Reuters. Muntemba said police had no idea why the man, who had no history of madness, had started eating his grandson, who died in July. The man was charged with interfering with a dead body and also for trespass in the graveyard.
Glen Drake [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
California, United States
Tuesday, September 14, 2004 at 16:38:13 (UTC)
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Jane
It is not a rumour the problem is very bad, I cannot name the source, There is a major attempt to cover it up,
Zim is as bad if not worse,
Sad but true
David
David Heaton [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Derby, United Kingdom
Tuesday, September 14, 2004 at 14:31:04 (UTC)
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David.
If this is true then it is extremely serious. So far as I know hooved animals are all affected as opposed to the wildlife being more or less immune to the tetsi fly. It would ruin Zambia's farming and Tourist (fledgling) economy and maybe the already condemned elephants (they have feet not hooves?) will be even more worth saving! I really hope this is a rumour, as I doubt that Zambia can cope with anything of this scale. See the results in England! I keep my fingers crossed and hope this tragedy remains a hoax.
jane
Jane Todd (née Zwanenburg, formerly Bye, Kelly) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Shatti Al Qurm, Muscat, Oman
Tuesday, September 14, 2004 at 13:20:58 (UTC)
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David we have had the mouth problem on the board for some time now an one young lady often accuses me of spreading it. Johnny.
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Tuesday, September 14, 2004 at 13:01:00 (UTC)
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Further to the elephant hunt fiasco does any one know about the serious foot and mouth problem now rampent in Zambia, I have heard from a very reliable source that this is a very big problem
David Heaton [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Derby, United Kingdom
Tuesday, September 14, 2004 at 10:58:25 (UTC)
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Message Board Photos
While Arthur will be scaling back his commitment to the GNR over the next few months, between Heather and I we will try to post stuff here as often as we can. One of us will post more information here shortly, and I will also modify the instructions on the site to reflect the change. Please stay tuned and don't abandon ship just yet. :)
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Monday, September 13, 2004 at 22:34:39 (UTC)
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"Elephant Sport Hunting" in Zambia
I am posting the following text on behalf of an anonymous contributor who is a little closer to the situation than most of us. Considering the news posted last month about the shooting of an anti-poaching activist in Zambia, I am quite happy to protect this person's identity.
I'd be very grateful if you could post this on your message board about the proposed 'Elephant Sport Hunting' in Zambia:
ZAWA, the Zambian Wildlife Authority, (which took over from the National Parks and Wildlife Service) is planning to bring in 'Elephant Sport Hunting' to Zambia. Under the proposals, 30 elephants will be eligible to be shot by foreign hunters. Of this number, 12 will be in the Game Management Areas around Lower Zambezi National Park and 12 in the GMA's surrounding South Luangwa National Park.
South Luangwa used to have a magnificent head of over 100,000 elephants in the early 70's, as well as the heaviest density of Black Rhino anywhere in Africa, totalling anything up to 12,000 rhinos. However, due to poor protection, poaching reduced the elephant population to around 5,000 in the early 1990's, and, as everyone knows, completely wiped out the rhino.
It seems a particularly cruel decision by ZAWA to want to hunt the remaining big tuskers that were fortunate enough to have survived the slaughter of the 70's and 80's. There is still elephant poaching in Zambia today, and elephants face constant harassment by poachers, particularly when they leave the National Park boundaries, but also inside the Parks as well.
Having failed to protect the elephant for 30 years, ZAWA now want to kill the biggest remaining ones!
There are hardly any big tuskers left anywhere in Zambia, and those that remain are vital to the gene pool. If this terrible idea gets off the ground, we will not only just lose 30 of the biggest elephants remaining in Zambia, but 30 the following year, 30 the year after that, etc, until there are only females and juveniles left to shoot. What a terrible tragedy that would be.
Will tourists want to come to visit this country, knowing they may hear the shots that are killing these magnificent survivors?
Increased tourism is far better for the long-term development of this country, yet the tourism industry is not well supported by Government, and infrastructure is poor. Sort out these basic requirements and the tourism industry in Zambia will flourish, bringing in much needed foreign exchange and creating lots of jobs for local people.
Craig Hartnett [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Monday, September 13, 2004 at 20:52:14 (UTC)
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Northerners !
PHOTOS ON THE GNR MESSAGE BOARD - IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT
Many of you submitting photos for the Message Board on a regular basis will have noticed the increasing amount of time that passes by before I get round to posting some of your contributions. Some of you will have also noticed my replies to any of your e-mails also take a long time before you get a reply, and when you get that reply it is usually a very short one.
Due to a large increase in my business commitments this year, and probably for at least for the first quarter of next year, I now have no option other than to suspend the current photo posting work I do for the GNR, for at least the next six months. I know many of you will be disappointed by this but I know you will all understand that my day job, business and family must take first priority. I will be back posting photos as soon as I am able and that's a promise. I will also continue to stick my nose in here now and again and make a posting or two, so you haven't got rid of me altogether.
I know Heather is also very busy for the remainder of this year and will probably not have time to post members photos herself, so I have asked Craig to revise and suspend the pages relating to submitting photos for the site altogether for now. Maybe if you ask Heather really nicely you'll be able to bender ear and get her to post an odd photo or two.
My work behind the scenes for the GNR will continue and I also have a few projects relating to the GNR that I will finish off. Meantime if any members have important material for our archives (which will be displayed when the "New" GNR finally gets off the ground) please contact me by e-mail.
Thanks to you all who have contributed in such a positive way to this website, some of your photos and stories that go with them have been amazing and have given us all great pleasure and memories.
Arthur Steevens
Hi!
Here’s Santa Carolina late August 2004.
The beach in front of the hotel
Beach house at hotel
Catholic church – still used – inside is a simple table as an altar with a picture of Jesus above it and a makeshift lectern (an old bar stool raised up on a box) for sermons (in case a priest pops in?)
How they got there and why I was not with them – allergic to flying! You flying boffs can have fun identifying the planes – Otto was in the big one in the middle – a Cessna 402, I believe.
They had to take all their own supplies and fish was scarce – no prawns, no crayfish – all fished out during the war and now Paradise Island is a marine reserve in order to allow the recovery of the breeding stock.
Enjoy - Jilly
--- Hi Arthur,
I’ve just looked at the article you posted and the photo of the beach house and the beach I sent in is shown in the photo on the bottom left on the second page of the article!
Not much has changed!
Jilly Aplin
Hi Arthur,
Following on from Jill's mentioning Santa Carolina, here are four photos taken in the mid-sixties.
They show the main hotel building, the accomodation block, the water supply, the supply boat (I wonder where the car was going), and underwater shot taken with the help of a homemade watertight housing. As you can see the coral was not healthy. I've resisted the temptation to include a sunset.
Mike Wilson
Hi everyone
The Zingiber is the one you were discussing, I think.
It flowers Sept./Oct. The ovary develops underground and emerges when ripe almost the size of a mans fist, bright red colour with fairly large seeds. Leaf growth is like that of cardamom but often much taller. They grew just inside the woodland along the dambo margins. The flower is as long as a mans hand. The other slides are two of Costus and one of Kampheria. Costus can have a leaf as large as a dinner plate. There is more than one specie. Anyone looking for seed, find the flowers, mark the spot and visit regularly to catch the fruit for seed. I did not take note of the time of ripening. They are believed to be a good remedy for constipation. The Genera I have given here may have gone into synonymy. The photographs were taken in 1961/1962 at Garremore farm, Kaniki near Ndola. Hope this is helpful to people interested in these plants.
Regards
Bryan Baker
Hi Arthur...
Craig said to send you these...
This is me in 1970 - computers took up mucho room in those days. A PC these days has more power than this monster.
Peter Dielissen
Hi Arthur,
thought I would have a little fun on the board and get the comments going. When you get a chance please post the following pictures before things get too hot. If you can label the first one "I wish" the second "Karmann naked", the third "More nude shots" and the fourth "What a body"FOR MEN ONLY
All the best
Regards
Philip Pain
Over & Out
Arthur Steevens [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stockport, United Kingdom
Monday, September 13, 2004 at 20:33:43 (UTC)
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Doug
Don't worry - we have a plan - we are going to drain the Zambezi and then there won't be a Victoria Falls for the Zimbabweans (or South Africans) to claim ownership of.
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Monday, September 13, 2004 at 19:49:58 (UTC)
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Charles C
“Thank's Charlie for the posting. Just a small correction, my service in Swaziland ran from 66 to 72 under SBSA. Thereafter my travels in Africa extended to all the previous ANZ Grindlays Banks taken over by SBSA in the role of Senior Manager Operations Stanbic Africa (SBSA)- not to be confused with Stanchart. The chaps I came into contact with were Andy Milnes Swaziland, Gus Warwick and Peter Eccles ex Zambia and Terry Laughton (Zim)now deceased. I served as Director Union Commercial Bank Madagascar, an operation in partnership with Mauritius Commercial Bank and reported directly to Tony Wright AGM Africa, in Johannesburg- now in UK.
Dave Farrell (60) and going strong!!”
Tks Charlie, that does clear up a lot. Peter Eccles and I messed together in Lusaka (Beit Road Mess), and were neighbors in Zamcinc Court after we were married. No Charlie, not to each other! Gusovitch Warwick was one of the lads in Ndola. Pete, Gus and I regularly frequented the Ndola watering holes (Bull 'n Bush, Top Hat, Savoy and others. I had no idea Terry Laughton had passed on. He would have been in his mid to latter sixties today, but I lost contact with him after he moved to O&M in Johburg in the late 70's.
Small world hey?
Chris Tamm [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hilo, Hawaii, United States
Monday, September 13, 2004 at 19:35:42 (UTC)
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Ali
When I had a look at your pictures, I saw the first one was attributed to a company at www.globaladrenaline.com
I went to their site to see what they would have to say about Zambia. They say that Vic Falls is actually in Zimbabwe!!!?? Mugabe must have stolen them!
Then they tell us we are likely to bump into a Lozi Tribesman on the lower Zambezi when we know Barotseland is on the upper Zambezi! Where do these dom donders get their info. I have emailed them.
I enjoyed your pictures.
Cheers - Doug
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Monday, September 13, 2004 at 18:15:28 (UTC)
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Michael Kelly:
I read your message about wanting to hear from someone who lives near San Diego or Los Angeles area. I live in Temecula which is an hour's drive to San Diego and I'm also familiar with Los Angeles.
Helen D'Cruz [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Temecula, California, United States
Monday, September 13, 2004 at 13:18:20 (UTC)
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Heather,
Thanks for your subsequent suggestion of getting a computer and scanner. I think this is a good idea especially as you know that they are regularly serviced in the Valley. I shall write to Anna direct regarding the possibilities of this.
Many thanks for your help,
Jane
Jane Todd (née Zwanenburg, formerly Bye, Kelly) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Shatti Al Qurm, Muscat, Oman
Monday, September 13, 2004 at 12:20:16 (UTC)
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My daughter Samantha has finished her A levels in England and is taking
a gap year before going to University (travel & tourism (subtitle -
environmental/eco tourism).
We have had discussions with Chipembele, where she wishes to start her
year in October and depending how long she is there for, carry on with
work experiences in the Valley with Lodges and in Siavonga.
I am going to Zambia with her in October, she arrives in Oman on
Tuesday, and am in fact sponsoring her travel expenses and pocket money (she is working on a voluntary basis). Here in Oman, she will be spending time before going, on getting sponsor donations from her friends and schools here ; pens, pencils etc are very cheap and available here. I am posting our latest letter from Anna at Chibembele and ask if any GNR members would like to contribute. They can check on GNR link for direct information and sponsorship and donation details.
Anna's email letter :
Hi Jane
This is Anna now! I am heavily involved with the local schools which are in
desperate need of help. One idea for Samantha's fundraising efforts is a
photocopier for Mfuwe Secondary School. Indeed none of the schools in the
area have photocopiers. Do you remember the old Banda machines that were
used in the schools in the UK prior to photocopiers (though I doubt Samantha
will!)? Well this is what they are still using here though they are ancient
and most in total disrepair because nobody makes the parts any more. So the
teachers have to hike a lift to Mfuwe Airport (15 miles away) every time
they want to copy (and you can imagine the quantitiy that schools need).
There they have to use a copier at commercial rates, using up precious
school funds. They are also out of school for a morning or more while they
try to get lifts and the pupils miss their lessons as a result.
It would be such a valuable asset to the school and other schools in the
area could also use it.
There are much larger projects that need tackling at the local schools such
as teacher housing, the completion of a part built laboratory, renovation of
the classroooms etc etc but it depends on how much she raises. For
Chipembele Wildlife Education Centre we are always in need of stationery and
prizes for the pupils and these perhaps are smaller things she could
bring... pens, pencil cases, small dictionaries, maths sets, calculators,
etc etc etc (anything small and easy to carry). Second hand clothing is
always good for prizes, especially t-shirts and shoes (average size for
girls 3-5, boys 5-8). Footballs are always in demand and greatly loved.
Hope all this gives Samantha some ideas. looking forward to meeting you all,
best wishes
Anna
Craig,
Many thanks for your attention and wishing you well and thanks for all
the work you do. GNR has certainly brought back some super contacts
and 'when we's' back to me. I have now purchased a plot in Garneton
and hope to return back for good some day in the future.
Samantha was born in Luanshya and although quite young when she left
has a very strong attraction to Zambia after many visits and I hope
will be a great contributor to it's progress in her chosen field.
Jane
Jane Todd (née Zwanenburg, formerly Bye, Kelly) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Shatti Al Qurm, Muscat, Oman
Monday, September 13, 2004 at 12:09:03 (UTC)
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Robert Huntley
here is a link to quite a few pictures of the Drakensburg mountains..
http://images.google.com.au/images?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&client=REAL-tb&q=drakensberg+mountains+&spell=1
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Monday, September 13, 2004 at 09:50:25 (UTC)
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I am searching for either of the Macrae boys who went to Balla Balla school with Charles Pettersson. I am looking for their Father George or what could have happened to him. If you know anything about these people - please email me.
Esther Pettersson [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Australia
Monday, September 13, 2004 at 05:29:23 (UTC)
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Ray Saunders
Best wishes on your birthday
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Monday, September 13, 2004 at 05:05:16 (UTC)
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I would be very interested in meeting or hearing from GNR members who live in or around San Diego, Palm Springs or Los Angeles.
Michael Kelly [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia, and, United States
Monday, September 13, 2004 at 03:27:53 (UTC)
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Today's London's Mail, issued free with every copy, volume 1 of D K Illustrated FAMILY encyclopedia. The former countries of the Federation were dismissed as such: Zambia: About 50% of the people live by subsistence farming, constantly threatened by drought. Tobacco is the main exported crop. The other 50% assumed to exist by copper exports. Malawi: few natural resources , rural society, ( 86% living of the land ) despite constant threat of drought. Zimbabwe: alone described as former British Colony with 70% of the population living off farming although mentioning great "disruption re land distribution" but no mention of drought thank goodness . Sounds to me like the impression infered here is that we were/are like some third world Saharian country.(The rains could be late, but drought seldom was a "constant" problem. (There were enough hassles to worry about producing tobacco. (By the way I enjoyed the photo of the new dehoro in NR with the flat roof and the strip lighting in the ceiling, must save the batteries, I also hope you have a thermostat which will save the dreaded twice nightly trek, pulling out the thermometers on a string in a dozen dehoros at least.))
Re: Neville Chamberlain alive and living in Oban, although the similarities are certainly there; he worked in the sugar plantations in the Windies before returning to the UK under dubious circumstances, to live with his sisters in London and becoming Prime Minister for a wee bit, whilst I left owing to ignorance and peer presure at the time. (Too many Jocks in Smiths Rhodesia talking about the Australian and New Guinnian opal and gold mines of that time which of course turned out to be an non-obtainable goal as we all know now, excepting the .01% as usual.
BOB:Re your posting on Chalapalapa and ta for your EMail on same regarding as to how far you've got. You have got stuck in the urban idiom and don't seem to quite have got out into the chateen/agriculture/ bush words yet which form a major part of my knowledge. Unfortunately I don't have a clue from which sorce anuthing comes from as the migrant workers from Nyasaland brought chinyanza, PEA workers, pidgen Portuguese (trying to be clever and insult us at the time (all looked Mike Tyson I remember), Shona locally, Afrikaans mechanic Henri who maintained his status quo by refering to everything in Afrakaans first,
which his Shona helpers already knew what he was on about. And Boss Norman from Scotland. What an introduction to my first three years of a learning curve. However,Bob, I have taken futher steps to recover the manuscript compiled by great aunt Mackay on her farm in the Forties which should be as near as damnit as to what you require. I hope to photostat the original, which I should have done so in the first place. Regards Colin.
Colin Munro [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Oban, Scotland, United Kingdom
Monday, September 13, 2004 at 02:25:30 (UTC)
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Robert,
My ex-wife had relatives that owned an hotel at Mount Aux Sources, or a name something like that. It was beautiful. I owned a farm in Hillcrest, Natal, in the mid fifties. Because of travels from there to Northern Rhodesia and the Congo to California I have lost most of my photographs.
Do you have any photographs of the Drakensberg that you could post on this site. It would be a sight for sore eyes.
Bob Huntley
Robert Huntley [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Carmel, California, United States
Monday, September 13, 2004 at 01:41:14 (UTC)
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Phil:
So humble... a lovely trait in a man. Of course your olive branch is accepted.
Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Monday, September 13, 2004 at 00:51:29 (UTC)
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Northerners...
If anyone is betting on the NFL please send me an email...
Peter Dielissen [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
Sunday, September 12, 2004 at 21:55:31 (UTC)
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Hi all
Just got the site on my computer and what a rememberance it brings back seeing all the names from the 'centre of the universe' as someone refered.
It looks like a small family for all corners of the world.
look forward to the good old humour that it seems only we (Northern Rhodesians) understand......
Glad to be on board.
Regards
Geoff
Geoff Latter [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Johannesburg, South Africa
Sunday, September 12, 2004 at 21:41:27 (UTC)
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Fi & Moo Moo!!!!
HAPPY BIRTHDAY LADIES! Where's the party? Hope U both had great days. Lots of hugs & XXXXX's.
Gary
Gary Brassington [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Banbury Oxon, United Kingdom
Sunday, September 12, 2004 at 21:30:53 (UTC)
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Mooi mooi Moira
Happy Birthday! You are also very nice to much!
How are the 5 cows?
Cheers - Doug
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Sunday, September 12, 2004 at 19:01:22 (UTC)
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hi All
have not been online for some time. Been totally bushed from work.
Thank Erman for contacting me, but have not heard from you since. Hope all is well.
We had a great snow fall about 10 days ago in the Midlands, Drakensberg areas. My wife took a drive to Boston and Bulwer the snow fall had been heavy and she took some super pics. The snow on the mountains could been seen from the Cato Ridge area, just outside Pinetown. The view was amazing.
It would be great to hear from anyone else who may remember our family any of course anyone else who would like to become friends.
If anyone is interested, I have on cine (which am currently having transferred to DVD / Video) Independance Day in Northern Rodhesia Livingstone. Quite a day for rememberance.
All go well and have a super week ahead.
Regards
Robbie
Robert Cloke [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Durban, KwaZulu Natal, South Africa
Sunday, September 12, 2004 at 18:03:29 (UTC)
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Philip
Wow. Thanks for thinking of an apology. What a sweet offer, an olive branch. While you are in a giving mood, we need a couple of good playable African drums. I have a bunch of Zimbabweans over here who want to make a big noise and where are there good really playable African drums when you want them, and then there's biltong and... well I'll get on line in catalogs and get with my SA friends and send you a long list.....What an opportunity. I wonder how gullible - I mean, sweet, Phil is?
It is so good to see others embarrassing themselves on the GNR. I do it all the time. Makes us feel even more of a family. KEEP POSTING YOUR WHIMSICAL STORIES. I'll think up really outrageous emails once in a while to test your resolve to keep them off the board. (Kidding!)
And talking of story tellers where is Ken Miller of the wonderful stories?
Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Sunday, September 12, 2004 at 16:35:54 (UTC)
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Dear Linda, Fiona and Tina,
I have sent an apology to you all via e-mail for my posting of your correspondence with me on the board.
I feel that a public apology is in order. Sorry I was not thinking as usual.
Please accept this Olive Branch.
Yours
Philip
Philip Pain [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Eshowe, Kwazulu Natal, South Africa
Sunday, September 12, 2004 at 16:17:22 (UTC)
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Moira
Happy day. I suppose it is getting into spring there!
Noreen
You wonder, girl! Best I ever did was the Bogle Stroll in Uni, a 53 mile walk for charity. As I remember, several of us finished the last few miles arms linked to a chorus of: "spam spam spam spam" no need to tell most where that came from...
Philip
Grinning at the rush you obviously enjoyed off our emails. No one should ever commit words to the internet or to paper or to speech without being aware that they can end up anywhere. Ted and I did have an exceptionally cuddly day as a result. My thing isn't swarfega but beautiful bikes and cars and flying machines are for some reason a real turn on. Why should the colors of everything be instantly enhanced because you have patted a helicopter? I never thought of a Karman Gia. Yours is very very lovely but those high beetle pedals were so weird to find in a sports car. Does anyone still have an Opel GT she asked wistfully? Having said all that, I have only recently come to grief posting info from private emails for a wind up and have resolved to curb those mad impulses.
Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Sunday, September 12, 2004 at 15:28:14 (UTC)
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Sorry Moira my dear many Happy Returns. Johnny.XX
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Sunday, September 12, 2004 at 14:21:53 (UTC)
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Doug & Johnny
Thank you very much for your kind birthday wishes but it's not MY birthday, it's Moira Fenwick's! Happy Birthday Moira!
Fiona Gayther (née Ferguson) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tytherington, Gloucestershire, United Kingdom
Sunday, September 12, 2004 at 14:14:03 (UTC)
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Moira Fenwick
Happy Birthday. Hope to see you in November?
June
Thank you :)
Phillip "no netiquette" Pain!!!
Didn't anyone ever tell you that it is the absolute height of bad manners to post the content of PRIVATE emails on a public forum without the permission of the person emailing you, or at least informing them that you would be doing that? That's why we take the ongoing discussion from the public GNR to a private email. Not that I have anything to hide, but a good lesson has been learned here...
I shall be bringing my 2 X 4 to the reunion and will give your darling Karmann a whack on the backside for this!
Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Sunday, September 12, 2004 at 14:07:47 (UTC)
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Fiona
Happy Birthday and many, maningi more! You are very nice too much!
Dave Avo
Thanks for the story! This is the place you can go into whenwe mode anytime. Why don't you come to next years reunion? I am sure some of your ciBemba would return when you hear it spoken again.
Phil
Well done, you have really stirred the tearoom up. I see that 64 year old Welshman Brian Williams has just married a 17 year old at Gretna Green. Any relation to you?
Also in today's Sunday Times was this question: -
Why do men think irrational thoughts, get sweaty palms, heart palpitations, a dry mouth and go weak at the knees when they meet women dressed in leather?
??
Because they smell like new cars!
His Majesty KIng Maswati III of Swaziland has just chosen his 13th bride, a 16 year old teen beauty queen. I hope it is not an unlucky choice!
As the self-appointed Ambassador of Swaziland to the GNR I hereby appoint Phillip an honourary Swazi! He must hereafter be addressed by one and all as InKosi Phillip.
Cheers - Doug
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Sunday, September 12, 2004 at 13:19:34 (UTC)
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Happy Birthday Moira and Noreen.....
Noreen..I have only run a half marathon.that was quite a few years ago, when I was in the army in NZ I used to run on average 15-20 kms mainly cross country.....loved it.....
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Sunday, September 12, 2004 at 11:49:16 (UTC)
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Sorry, I meant : "Any other Marathoners on the GNR".
My mind is already racing.... or perhaps, it is still very early in the morning in Toronto, to think!
Noreen D'Cruz [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Toronto, Canada
Sunday, September 12, 2004 at 11:20:41 (UTC)
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Helen and Tina
Thanks for the Birthday greetings. I did have an exceptionally wonderful day yesterday.
On September 26th I will be running the Toronto Waterfront Marathon and am looking forward this race as I have run this Marathon before and the route is so beautiful and scenic especially at this time of the year.
Another other marathoners on the GNR?? I remember doing a marathon WALK in 1979 in Lusaka - anyone remember that?
Noreen D'Cruz [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Toronto, Canada
Sunday, September 12, 2004 at 10:56:06 (UTC)
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Doug,
Thanks for the nickname, it is considered an honour to be awarded such a title. I should be on bended knee when the formal investiture(sp) ceremony takes place.
I would have hoped that would take place at the re-union.
However, "her indoors" , has no interest in my roots .
Years of ," when I was in Africa ," has created an immunity to the topic. Also, I suspect that being away for so long have somewhat wimpified an erstwhile child of the bush.
Perhaps I should take up with Philip's new flame ? If he would share her that is !
As to Shiwa, I am not related to Sir S. Gore-Brown, although he did offer to pay for my education ( which dad, a proud man, declined )
Dad had been on the mines where the work was hard.
The living conditions were difficult for a young couple with a young child. The only thing that made it somewhat bearable was the kindness of the people there .
However, he saw an opening at Shiwa as the bookeeper/administrator, and was successful. We lived in a large bungalow which had the District Commissioners guest house in the garden. There was a stream that ran alongside and the driveway was a mile long. I was assigned a young african girl as a nanny, and being very young learnt Bemba before English. I am sorry to say that I have no recollection of it now.
I do not recall the Great man himself, but I was caught by Mrs Gore-Brown up in her mulberry trees. Apparently my excuse was that I was looking for the strawberries!
I had malaria twice, pink-eye, was attacked by bees( only escaped by diving under the netting on my sister's pram- she having been born in Shiwa) ,and went hunting the "man-eating lion " on my own. It was eventually caught ( and it was photographed with me- dead of course ). I am told that on one occasion, a leopard jumped onto the thatched roof at the house and fell into one of the bedrooms.
However, I am begining to enter the " when I was in Africa " mode so will conc;lude.
Take care
Dave " Avo "
David Atkiss [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Nottingham, United Kingdom
Sunday, September 12, 2004 at 10:49:28 (UTC)
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Dear Fiona a belated Happy Birthday Wishto you and may you have many more Johnnyxx
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Sunday, September 12, 2004 at 10:02:43 (UTC)
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Phil you are a lad after my own heart assuming it is true and you are not stringing our pack of Angels along. Johnny.
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Sunday, September 12, 2004 at 09:57:02 (UTC)
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Phil you are a lad after my own heart assuming it is true and you are not stringing our pack of Angels along. Johnny.
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Sunday, September 12, 2004 at 09:57:01 (UTC)
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Hi All,
thought I would share my Saturday evening's entertainment with you
Ok Phillip, Linda is at work and I won't hear for ages what you're talking about. Please put me out of my misery!!
Fiona
(I then sent the girls a picture of some "Chick" I found on the internet)
Yah right, in your dreams Phil! Motorbike then!
Fiona,
what do you mean in my dreams? My wife Lynne from who I have just got divorced was 25 years younger than me. She had just turned 25, and we got
married two days after I turned 50.
Check me out I have still got it.
Phil.
Be still my beating heart!!! Yes, Linda told me you were looking pretty
good! So spill then. By the way, it's a brilliantly told story as always.
I enjoy your postings so much
you're enjoying this aren't you, you little bugger? Excellent fun though.
Dear Tina, Linda and Fiona,
this is one of the great failings that women have, the assumed ability to read between the lines.
Why can't you all take things on face value? Just think how wonderful you girls could make life for us guys if you did that. Guys call it trust and a white lie never harmed anyone that I know of, in fact if you were told one it was probably to protect you from the harsh realities of life.
Phil
Well I'll tell you what. When I first read your posting on the GNR I
thought it was what you meant us to think. Then I "thought" some more and then I read Doug's posting. Then I though it was a dog. Then I spoke to someone else who said it was a car. You implied that it wasn't a car, so I
read it again and THOUGHT LATERALLY and decided it was a motor bike. So you
see, I did take it at face value and did not read between the lines to start with.
Hi Phil:
You are such a hoot!! I loved your story and hope I did not steal your thunder by my response, but I just could not resist. I actually toned it down a lot from what I started out posting... grin. There was a lot of meat there to run with if you are blessed withe the type of sense of humour that I have. But I decided I better behave.
You will be very amused to know that I have had several private emails from women friends, all saying they cannot believe that you would discuss your sexual life so openly on the GNR and no wonder you are now divorced. Ha! Ha!
Ah... yes... the alluring smell of Swarfega again.. ha! ha!
Looking forward to seeing the photos. My sons are very interested in all kinds of cars and we frequently have car shows here with all the classic and souped up models. I can scan and email you a few photos you might be interested in looking at? Let me know.
Later, dude.. and for goodness sakes, behave!!
Linda
Hi Linda,
sorry you lost me somewhere.
Attached are a few pictures of Karmann.
Phil.
Phil, Phil, Phil, Phil, Phil,!!!
You have to wake up very early in the morning to get the better of me.
Remember I eat SWARFEGA for dessert. Grin.
I see your lady "Karmann" and raise you my 1961 "Red Devil" (attached).
Unfortunately (for you, that is.... grin) you have now opened yourself right
up for public ridicule on the GNR. There are already 3 of us so you should
run while you can.. grin.
Linda
Hi Tina,
sorry about the confusion.
Phil.
Fifi La Gayther is currently in IM with me. Divorced from a 25 year old and looking? You are a lovely ego driven RAT. Long may it continue. The world needs confident, fun-filled men (and women).
XT BMW bike? I cant see yr message right now. Have to get back to Fi
Yawn I already got those from Fi. Incidentally I was on the front end (forget the back!!!!!!!!!) of a Harley Heritage 1400 soft tail recently. Very comforting but too darn heavy. Hmmm you are bringing up some reveries Mercedes Bomb - i.e Gullwing, Merc convertible,.. other bikes. Sounds like great fun and a renovation challenge. As to your wife/girlfriend, the obvious answer is to suggest a threesome. I'd be in like flynn for a mechanical baby of that order. God Ted and I and she would have some times. Better stop thinking about it. Byeeeeeee
She's gorgeous Philip. You do not have too much time on your hands that was fun and you write beautifully.
TTFN
Tina
Ok! Girls,
I screwed up badly, I seem to have too much time on my hands. My intention was to start a discussion on what pigs men are and I wanted to show you all up as the suspicious things that women are. (Duck! writing this from under the bed.)
I will in future be a little more careful in my postings but the only problem with girls is that once you have tried to mislead them they will never believe anything you tell them even if it is the truth. Come on think back on your lives and admit it. (Trying to save face here.)
I must admit I had a very entertaining Saturday evening with my e-mail going "DONG"
every few minutes.
(That's the sound it makes when a message comes through.)
For you girls who have not met Karmann please see the attachments. I just love her to bits.
Linda,
I don't know if I should believe you or not, it seems too much of a coincidence that you should own one as well. Please furnish proof, like a pic. of you with your "Red Devil" There are thousands of pictures on the internet to download.
Love You all,
Phil.
P.S. Please be gentle with me.
CHEERS
Philip Pain [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Eshowe, Kwazulu Natal, South Africa
Sunday, September 12, 2004 at 08:08:45 (UTC)
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Moira Fenwick
Best wishes on your birthday
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Sunday, September 12, 2004 at 07:24:33 (UTC)
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Chris Tamm…
I’ve just received the following email regarding our previous discussion:
“Thank's Charlie for the posting. Just a small correction, my service in Swaziland ran from 66 to 72 under SBSA. Thereafter my travels in Africa extended to all the previous ANZ Grindlays Banks taken over by SBSA in the role of Senior Manager Operations Stanbic Africa (SBSA)- not to be confused with Stanchart. The chaps I came into contact with were Andy Milnes Swaziland, Gus Warwick and Peter Eccles ex Zambia and Terry Laughton (Zim)now deceased. I served as Director Union Commercial Bank Madagascar, an operation in partnership with Mauritius Commercial Bank and reported directly to Tony Wright AGM Africa, in Johannesburg- now in UK.
Dave Farrell (60) and going strong!!”
Geoff Latter…
Thank’s for the email. Welcome on board, and I’ll drop you a line in the near future.
Regards
Charles Cartmill [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stellenridge, Cape Town, South Africa
Sunday, September 12, 2004 at 07:22:51 (UTC)
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Linda:
What a beautiful poem.
June
June Dobson (née Jocks) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Christchurch, Canterbury, New Zealand
Sunday, September 12, 2004 at 06:50:41 (UTC)
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Dang it!!!! Noreen, happy birthday hon, and many many more marathons!
Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Sunday, September 12, 2004 at 05:52:13 (UTC)
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I know the GNR officially says it is September 12, but it is still September 11 here.
This is in memory of the lost lives of September 11, 2001.
I wrote this on that terrible day and have shared it with friends before, but I thought I would post it here today.
ARE WE THERE YET, GRANDPA?
A freckled boy, his Grandpa's joy, excitement in the house
A special trip to Disneyland to meet his favorite mouse,
Backpack filled with snacks from mom, a little toy or two
I don't need toys, I'm with Grandpa, so much to see and do
Oh look, Grandpa, the world below like little ants I see
And here we are up in the sky, my best Grandpa and me
I love my house, I love that mouse, and you're my bestest friend
Are we there yet, Grandpa? I sure hope not, I don't want this to end
Just me and you, a bond so deep, that only we can share
I love the way you pinch my nose and ruffle up my hair
Do you suppose that Mickey Mouse will spot me with his eye
Of course he will, 'cause you're with me, you'll hold me way up high
Grandpa, who are those men who look so mean? Could they be mad at us?
I don't know John, don't say a word, and please don't make a fuss
Oh Heavenly Father, keep John safe, he's just a little boy
He's done no harm, so full of life, he is my pride and joy
No mouse today, no time to play, hold Grandpa's hand real tight
Instead of Mickey, you and me will meet Jesus tonight
I'm scared, Grandpa, but you're so brave, we'll always be best friends
Are we there yet, Grandpa? I sure hope so, for then my fear will end
Linda Hayes
September 11, 2001©
Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Sunday, September 12, 2004 at 03:05:48 (UTC)
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Now Philip, the guessing game is really fun, but hey CELEBRATE the differences of approach between men and women. It's part of the mad, mysterious maze and roller-coaster of life. Huh! As if we never encountered a jealous or curious man. And no need to get mad cos we're getting warmer sweetie heh! heh!
Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Sunday, September 12, 2004 at 01:30:27 (UTC)
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Doug:
You are such a "dahlink" and one of my great personal favourites that I will forgive you for being lost when it comes to being swift on the uptake here. It is a male thing, you know, and that is why us females have to exhibit so much patience with you lot. Grin..
Phil:
Nice try, but I didn't even need to read between the lines. Being of the superior-brained gender, I was so far ahead of you already that you probably should graciously admit defeat here before Tina, Fiona and I make mincemeat of you in front of your mates.. grin. It seems to me that perhaps your engine needs tuning? Your timing is off, your piston is shot, you've obviously cracked your head, or at the least blown a gasket, and your muffler has a hole in it. A crying shame by the looks of it, chum. I would offer to do my bit for mankind and recondition you, but Fiona has borrowed my can of Swarfega... grin. (At least I won't have to close my eyes and think of the Queen as all well-bred young ladies are raised to do) Hope you liked the photo of my own Karman Ghia that I sent you by private email? Looks like it would blow your little blonde "Karmann" away that you tried to hoodwink me with in your email, wouldn't you say? Never, ever try to outsmart a Kitwe girl. You should know better by now, having grown up there yourself!
Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Sunday, September 12, 2004 at 01:04:36 (UTC)
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Linda
I am betting that it is a sausage dog or rather bitch that Phil is talking about. Remember he said that she came from Germany. If it is a car it must be a VW beetle.
Michael
I am happy to hear someone else remembers the Culverwells. I am sorry to say that I have lost all contact with them. I did once hear that they were running a motel at Chirundu on the Rhodesian side.
Have any other members got any news of the Culverwells for us?
Old mother Culverwell used to run the cattle on Sunny Ridge ranch, which was about 10,000 acres, by herself. She was a tough old lady who used to get up at about 4am every morning. Her house was interesting in that it had those decorative pressed steel ceiling panels that had been imported from South Africa. Bill and Betty used to spend only about 8 months of the year in Zambia growing 400 acres of mealies and then the other 4 months in Durban. I think that life-style was what attracted me to farming. He was a tough guy who had a black belt in Judo.
There was a story that he had castrated a garden boy who tried to rape his daughter. He apparently delivered the body to the police station in a sack the following day. He never spoke about it.
I spent a couple of school holidays on their farm in the late 50's. During the Xmas holiday they went to church in their one Chevy leaving the other in the yard. I stayed behind making some beehives in the workshop. There was another youngster who was also a visitor. He at 16, was a year younger than me. I think his name was something like Sweeney.
When I came out of the workshop I was suprised to see him driving the 2nd Chevy around the yard. He told me he had permission from Uncle Bill. At his invitation I got in the car with him and he drove from Bill's house onto the main road and then turned into Sunny Ridge ranch and down to Granny's house. He stopped the car far away from the house, which made me suspicious, but again he bulldusted me that he had permission. We had tea and biscuits with the old lady and then he drove us back to Bill's farm. On the way there was a shower of rain so the car made some tracks in the yard when we arrived.
Next day Bill found the tracks and demanded an explanation. He had not given Sweeney (?) any permission! Betty was really angry as it was her car and in my opinion overreacted a bit. I tried to protest innocence but was limited by the stupid schoolboy code of honour that one must not sqeal on one's mates. As I was the elder I was also held responsible anyway. We had to pack our bags and go, and that sadly, was the end of our aquaintance. I wish them all well wherever they may be.
Cheers - Doug
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Saturday, September 11, 2004 at 21:01:05 (UTC)
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Dear Tina, Linda and Fiona,
this is one of the great failings that women have, the assumed ability to read between the lines.
Why can't you all take things on face value? Just think how wonderful you girls could make life for us guys if you did that. Guys call it trust and a white lie never harmed anyone that I know of, in fact if you were told one it was probably to protect you from the harsh realities of life.
CHEERS
Philip Pain [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Eshowe, Kwazulu Natal, South Africa
Saturday, September 11, 2004 at 19:51:52 (UTC)
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Presented with a sleek beautiful drivable beauty as a rival any woman worth her salt would immediately declare a threesome.
Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Saturday, September 11, 2004 at 19:11:38 (UTC)
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Philip
Ah, ok. Motorbike then. What make? I see you intend to grow old disgracefully. Good onya!
Fiona Gayther (née Ferguson) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tytherington, Gloucestershire, United Kingdom
Saturday, September 11, 2004 at 19:02:14 (UTC)
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Glorious story Philip and beautifully writted. Had to skim it a bit so may have missed clues but I'm wondering about an Opel GT if it is a car and not another option.......
Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Saturday, September 11, 2004 at 18:35:28 (UTC)
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Mike Paterson, Chris Thackray, Ralph Pecker, Carylyn Mommsen, Magda Ruelens, Peter McNaught
Best wishes on your birthdays
CJ
This was a quick visit - doing some work for the Walvis Bay Corridor Group Even though I moved out of the transport industry six years ago, I have never really 'left' it.
Meg
Thanks for the email - will take the issue further.
Heather Chalcraft (née Bender) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Lusaka, Zambia
Saturday, September 11, 2004 at 17:35:56 (UTC)
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Hi again
Just read the latest messages on the board and we had a good laugh.
I had to read through my earlier posting and I guess that it does sound like I am talking about a car.
I have just sent Linda some pictures to clear up the confusion.
CHEERS
Philip Pain [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Eshowe, Kwazulu Natal, South Africa
Saturday, September 11, 2004 at 16:35:31 (UTC)
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Three die in Zambia crash
KIM MACDONALD
A Perth family were grieving yesterday after the death of three relatives in a light aircraft crash in Zambia, Africa, during the safari trip of a lifetime.
Matthew and Justine Watters, both 26, and Matthew's mother Shirley, 58, all from Darlington, were killed in the crash near Victoria Falls on Thursday afternoon, together with an English couple, also in their 20s, and the Canadian pilot.
It came only a day after they experienced the ironically named Flight of Angels, which is a scenic aerial view of the picturesque Victoria Falls on the Zambian and Zimbabwean border.
A family friend, who did not want to be named, said the victims had been travelling in a group of eight for three weeks and were due to return home next week.
The friend said the two couples and Mrs Watters had chartered the plane to fly 700km from South Luangwa National Park to the world-famous falls, where they stayed overnight.
The accident happened soon into the return trip on Thursday afternoon about 48km from Livingstone airport.
''Some 20 minutes into the flight the aircraft transmitted a mayday advising that the engine was losing oil,'' said a statement released by the family.
''That was the last that was heard of the plane and a search and rescue helicopter discovered the wreckage shortly thereafter.''
Zambia's civil aviation director, Chitalu Kabalika, confirmed that shortly after take-off the pilot relayed he had an engine problem.
Less than 50 minutes later, the wreckage of the light aircraft, a Cessna 210, was found in the Zimba region of Zambia, between Livingstone and Kalomo.
The family friend said Shirley's husband Kim, his cousin Shannon Farmer and Mr Farmer's wife, Kristin, from Glen Forrest, had stayed behind at the national park and were advised of the tragedy at 5.30pm on Thursday.
It is understood that Mr Watters is receiving counselling at the Australian Embassy in Harare. A relative of Justine Watters, nee Morton, has also flown from Perth to Zimbabwe.
The Times in Harare reported Theo Goveia, the managing director of local air charter company Airwaves Airlink, as saying the plane which crashed was on lease to his company from Travel Africa, a South African company. He said mechanical failure was suspected.
He told the newspaper that under aviation rules and regulations, maintenance works on foreign aircraft were not permitted to be carried out locally.
A Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade spokeswoman said consular assistance from the Australian High Commission in Harare was being provided to the remaining members of the party, who are due to return to Perth within days.
"We're saddened to learn of the death of three West Australians from the same family," she said.
Victoria Falls is one of the world's most popular tourist destinations. The falls are 1708m wide and drop between 90m and 107m into the Zambezi Gorge.
Moira Steevens [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Brisbane, Australia
Saturday, September 11, 2004 at 15:37:27 (UTC)
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Heather, jusst got your email, replied immediately so do check your "inbox", does anyone know anything about rearing avocado trees indoors? I found a tiny avo tree growing on my compost heap two years ago, potted it up, and homed it by a South West facing window. It is now about 9 foot tall, very lanky and top heavy, as I cant find any information about growing avocados indoors anywhere, perhaps some of the boffins on the GNR could help. It was a Sarf African Avocado if that is any help! As it is growing in the wrong hemisphere with the wrong seasons, when, and should I prune it. I also have an "accidental" naatchi tree, son no. 1 spat his pips into a plant pot, and a vigorous, thriving plant, again about 11 to 12 foot high has grown in the last 7 years, no flowers or fruit, what should I expect. Ciao, keep up the good work, Megs
Meg Rybicki (formerly Margaret) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Mullanyduff, Co Leitrim, Ireland
Saturday, September 11, 2004 at 15:32:57 (UTC)
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Phillip
She sounds like a complete hussey and I will have nothing to do with her in Siavonga. You men are so easily seduced by gloss. Remember, beauty is only duco deep Phillip. I think you need help mate. Maybe you should start attending AA - Automobiles Anonymous. Well for your sake, I hope at least she is a good ride!
Fiona Gayther (née Ferguson) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tytherington, Gloucestershire, United Kingdom
Saturday, September 11, 2004 at 15:15:39 (UTC)
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Noreen,
Happy birthday, dear sister! May you have a fun-filled day with everything your heart desires.
Lots of love and hugs!
Helen D'Cruz [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Temecula, California, United States
Saturday, September 11, 2004 at 14:53:45 (UTC)
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Ladies:
Don't be intimidated by Phil's enticing female friend one little bit. Having beguiled many a man around these little playthings, and revved his engine up to mark 10 myself, I can safely say that we will all be able to at least sit on her, if not take her for a ride ourselves.. grin. Is she a hard top or a convertible, Phil?
As for you, Doug, one can only assume from your posting that you think Phil has been playing with doggies. Report to me at the reunion, please.
Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Saturday, September 11, 2004 at 14:32:27 (UTC)
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Hi Keith,
This is what the ABC reported I do have the West Australian link too, but it doesn't come up for me....it might work for you.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200409/s1196885.htm
http://www.thewest.com.au/20040911/news/general/tw-news-general-home-sto129316.html
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Saturday, September 11, 2004 at 13:58:11 (UTC)
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Last week in "Scribbling the Cat" I read that most of the slaves in Brazil and Cuba were taken there from Mozambique.
That same day at a quiz night the question was asked "From which country did most of the slaves in Brazil originate?" It's my lucky day I thought and answered Mozambique. When the answers were given out and the papers marked the official answer was Angola. Did I feel disappointed!!??
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New subject: I just saw a terrible news headline on the internet but was only able to see the headline with no further information. The full story wouldn't open up. It reported that a family of 3 from Perth died in a plane crash over the Victoria Falls.
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Maybe someone on GNR would know more about those two events.
Keith Binns [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates
Saturday, September 11, 2004 at 13:14:20 (UTC)
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Doug
I have no idea. I only asked because my mother knew the Harvey family quite well when they farmed in Chi samba
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You mentioned in the recent past that you spent a lot of your youth on the farm of Bill Culverwell. My parents were good friends with them in the Fifties. Betty is a Godmother to one of my brothers.
I also remember visiting the farm of Bills mother (known to everyone as old Mrs Culverwell) which was on the west side of the Great North road. She was one of very few farmers to have a telephone in those days and I believe that is why were often there as we did not have one.
Are Bill and Betty still alive? And their daughter Gay?
Regards Mike
Michael Slement [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hertfordshire, United Kingdom
Saturday, September 11, 2004 at 13:10:46 (UTC)
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Michael
Yes I do know that Mark is the grandson of GB and is still living at Shiwa. Is David a relation to Mark?
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Saturday, September 11, 2004 at 12:31:35 (UTC)
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Philip
That sounds like a shaggy dog story to me!
Cheers - Doug
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Saturday, September 11, 2004 at 12:22:09 (UTC)
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Doug Grewar
I assume you know that Mark Harvey (entry recently updated) is the grandson of Gore-Brown and that he still lives at Shiwa.
Regards Mike
Michael Slement [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hertfordshire, United Kingdom
Saturday, September 11, 2004 at 12:20:42 (UTC)
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Dave 'Avo' Atkiss
I see that you spent some time at Shiwa as a child. Surely "thereby hangs a tale." What was your Dad doing a Shiwa? And at Kasama? Do you recall Gore-Brown at all? Never mind the avos, spill the beans.
Cheers - Doug
Doug Grewar [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Vryheid, Natal, South Africa
Saturday, September 11, 2004 at 11:09:29 (UTC)
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My thanks to all those who posted ( and e-mailed ) information as to my avocado tree.
Whilst there are no instant resolutions, progress has been made.
The tree now has a name " John-Ron "
(a) John ,being after Johnny, as it was very pleased to discover it has a different sexual persuasion on a daily basis! Explains away the headaches!
(b) Ron, as it is now understanding of its " Roots "
It has also ( being a tree of some maturity ) expressed a wish to be put on the voters list for " The great party ". Have had some explaining to do in that regard!
Over and Out
david
David Atkiss [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Nottingham, United Kingdom
Saturday, September 11, 2004 at 10:50:27 (UTC)
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The Skeleton in my closet
Note:- To protect identities no names have been used.
I guess that a lot of us have at sometime had a skeleton hidden in their closet and I must admit that I have one. One which I must admit has caused a little upset in my life.
All the guys out there with red blood flowing through their veins I know will sympathise with me. As for the girls I can't understand why you can't be more understanding and compassionate, I doubt that I will ever figure out what makes you all tick and why you have to have this thing called jealousy.
To tell my story I must go to the beginning and start from there.
It was about five years ago while my youngest son was up in Johannesburg alone visiting friends, that one evening while driving through one of the older suburbs he saw this gorgeous thing standing on the pavement under a lamppost. Now I must tell you all that my son was not on the prowl, it is not in his nature, the problem was that she was so beautiful that she took his breath away and he had to stop to get a better look. (Eye Candy does that to guys.) Fortunately his wife was not with him at the time otherwise I would not have this story to tell.
Having found a parking place further down the road he walked back to where she was standing and prepared himself to negotiate if he had to. As he got closer he could see that although she still had the body of a goddess he could tell that she had had a hard life and had been terribly abused and it was only the makeup that from a distance made her look so good.
Now my son being the good Samaritan that he is, decided then and then that he had to do something to get her off the streets. He later told me that it cost him quite a few bucks but it was finally agreed to that she could come back to Eshowe with him.
When my son arrived home with her you can imagine the upset it caused in his home, especially as another child was on the way and they were going to be short of space. Unfortunately he had made a commitment and she was here in Eshowe. Spending some quality time with her on the trip back from Johannesburg he really got to know her better, but as he later told me, she could be a real bitch at times but after a little coaxing she would settle down again and be most charming. This he put down to her being abused when she was younger.
After some "family discussions" he was told she was not welcome and he must find some other place for her to stay. (Women??) It was early Sunday morning when I received a phone call from my son explaining his dilemma and asked if I could help. After discussions with my wife (My second wife not his mother) and some smart talking on my part, we agreed that she could stay with us for a while and then my son must make another plan. My wife and I lived alone in a large house so we had lots of space.
It was around eleven o'clock on that fateful Sunday morning after my son and his family had been to church when she arrived with my son and his family. My wife and I were standing on the veranda at the time and I think she could sense a change coming over me because as they were all coming down the drive I got a serious jab from her elbow in the ribs with a hissed "Don't get any ideas." I in my innocence said I didn't know what she was talking about. (Oh! boy, I should never have said that. Women never let you forget.)
Thinking back now I believe that day was a start to a lot of my troubles. My wife insisted that she must stay in one of the outbuildings. I don't know if this was the first signs of jealousy that my wife was showing and it suprised me as we had had a very open relationship and that kind of nonsense hadn't reared it's ugly head before.
After all the pleasantries were over my daughter-in-law and my wife took the kids inside while my son and I saw to it that she got settled in. It was during this time that a strange feeling overcame me. Those of you out there who have experienced the feeling will know what I mean. It is the feeling when you look at someone and you touch for the first time, it is that electric tingle that goes through your body and you know there is chemistry there. It is hard to explain unless you have expensed it. I think I was starting to fall in love.
After she was settled in I started to spend time a lot of my spare time with her, especially in the evenings when I came home from work and my wife was busy watching the soapies. It was during this time that I learnt that she was born in West Germany in 1960 and came out to Africa at a very young age. She came from a very large well known family and she was actually sold to a family in Johannesburg. This family really loved her at first but as she got older she was moved from family to family until she ended up on the streets. (Lucky my son found her.)
It was one Saturday afternoon that it happened. After a bunch of my friends had been around and we had spent the afternoon down at her place drinking and chatting (I think my friends envied me.) Up until that afternoon there had been nothing more than the casual touch but I think maybe I had had a few too many to drink, or it was that 50's thing that is always joked about, you know men and younger things. Who knows?
It was after my friends had left and I was alone with her that I lost it. I was just standing there admiring her when before I knew what was happening I started to strip her. I was so engrossed with what I was doing that I never heard the door open and it was only when my wife asked what the hell I thought I was doing or words to that effect that I realised that she had been standing there watching for some time. (Wives and girlfriends take a tip from me. If you want to be happy for the rest of your life, whistle or make a noise when approaching your husband or boyfriend unannounced, please give him a break.)
A short while later I followed my wife up to the house with my "tail" between my legs and I knew I was in for it. After explaining what I was doing and that it was just a spur of the moment thing, I was surprised when she said she was not upset at all and as she told me that she realised that I was at the age that I needed something on the side to keep me occupied. My wife gave me the impression that she could see the three of us together. (That was then)
All was fine until the day my wife went through one of my bank statements and asked me to explain a lot of unaccounted purchases. I tried my best to explain to my wife that she had given me permission to be with "her" and there were things that she needed and I did not see any problem in buying them for her. Ouch! wrong answer. (Why can't girls be consistent?) There followed the usual arguments. "What about the things that I need? and I think you are spending too much time with her." I tried to explain to my wife that she was my first love, but I had lots to go around to share. This only fell on deaf ears. (Jealousy I think, you guys will know what I am talking about, they only hear what they want to in an argument and then throw up in your face the things they "didn't" hear at a later stage.)
This last incident took place over two years ago and since then a lot of water has flowed over the Falls. I am now divorced. (She was not the cause) But I will say this, She has been a great help in getting my brain sorted out and functional again.
You might all ask what this has to do with the Great North Road and I must explain that I will be bringing her with me up to Zambia to the Siavonga Soiree in June next year. I want that all the girls attending should not feel threatened when you see your partners spending time with her. Remember she is mine now and I don't share unless there is something in it for me.
I have forwarded some pictures to Arthur to post to go with this story, I don't know if he will as the are kind of interest to "MEN ONLY"
CHEERS
Philip Pain [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Eshowe, Kwazulu Natal, South Africa
Saturday, September 11, 2004 at 08:23:08 (UTC)
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Bill:
Sure. Pick a post! Embryo Politician? Please 'splain? We should probably rotate Premiers so everyone who wants to gets practice. It works well for crops and tires.
Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Friday, September 10, 2004 at 17:46:53 (UTC)
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Bryan,
The Olympian origin and meaning of the Nomenclature for Orchids is all Greek Testimonials to me.
But I believe that ancient Incas and ancient Greeks had one thing in Common with modern man.
They all held similar opinions of their venerable old lawyers. Plus ca' change.
Therefore I believe it was in memory of these venerable old lawyers that these fruit were named.
It is thus no shock to learn that Avocados and terestrial orchids were named -
Old Scrotum - A Wrinkled Retainer.
Cheers Ron
Ron Clibborn-Dyer [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hong Kong SAR, China
Friday, September 10, 2004 at 15:47:21 (UTC)
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All these great messages about voltmeters sparking an interest in judging the readiness of trees to procreate and produce fruit, elicits a jolt to my punniness and I ask : "Should I get one for myself?"
I know Johnny doesnt need one - he, of the unfetterd-by-punctuation- and- grammar - he would just go and raise amps anywhere.
As an embryo politician, can I help with the founding of the Great Party? I could persuade at least two folks I know to vote for anything.
And Ms Two-By-Four would be an excellent Minister of Offense.
Bill
William Knott [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Friday, September 10, 2004 at 13:50:51 (UTC)
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Johnny - tying the knot! Are you about to get remarried? What a lovely statement to make! Seeing that it's the carefree 2004 man-about-the-GNR Johnny Green - just don't put your hand on the bible or anything when you make that vow or you may get smited/smote with a bit more than ring around the bottom. XX
Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Friday, September 10, 2004 at 13:05:17 (UTC)
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Ron C-D,
Thanks for confirming my observations - and all the other information gleaned from your notes. I certainly don't enjoy the dark skinned variatal - meant to taste peppery, but too bland and dry for my whiskey (proper spelling) palate.
Alan Pringle - you 'ou doorn'. You'll bring down the wrath of Arthur (like a shower of refreshing rain). I'm still pondering over why he thinks I'm an Alsation! Have you contributed to the compiling of a list of street names - to help Arthur with the editing of 'our Broken Hill map'?
Regards
Charles Cartmill [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stellenridge, Cape Town, South Africa
Friday, September 10, 2004 at 10:30:57 (UTC)
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Ron
you left out something. Avaocado trees and Jacarandas grow in the same forest in parts of Venezuela and can reach 200 ft. I have put a list together re fruits and will send it via email direct to you. Bryan
PS: I also know how Orchids came to be so named.
Bryan Baker [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Western Australia, Australia
Friday, September 10, 2004 at 10:27:32 (UTC)
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The Testicle Tree - Persea Americana
One might well say about this talk of Avocados, Alligator Pears and Avo Meters
"Testimonials"
With apologies once again to Helen and others who dislike all this stuff on trees - below is a summary of some brief research on the testicle tree.
The avocado tree is a member of the laurel family and is the only tree in the family to produce edible fruit. The three main strains are the Mexican, the West Indian and the Guatemalan. All have elliptical leaves that are glossy dark green with pale veins. The leaves remain on the tree for two to three years.
The avocado or avocado pear, Persea Americana, is native to Mexico, Central America, and South America. The earliest record of its existence was an archaeological dig in Peru that uncovered avocado seeds buried with a mummy and dated back to the 8th Century BCE. One theory was that these early people wanted the seeds buried with them because their aphrodisiac qualities might be useful in the afterlife.
Growing Avocado trees are planted from grafted seedlings and produce a crop in 1 to 3 years. A mature tree will bear between 100 to 400 avocados. Some of the fruit may drop off prematurely. Proper watering, good cross-pollination, and stress elimination can avoid this. Avocado trees will continue to bear fruit for up to 200 years unless they succumb to disease.
An evergreen tree, it sheds many leaves in early spring. It is a fast growing tree that can reach a height of 80 feet. The tree produces panicles or clusters of 200 to 300 small yellow-green blossoms. Each panicle will yield one to three avocados. Type A flowers are receptive to pollination in the morning and shed pollen the next afternoon. Type B flowers are receptive to pollination in the afternoon and shed pollen the following morning. A small percentage of the flowers are defective and sterile. The best crop occurs when there is cross-pollination between Type A and Type B.
Mexican avocados take about 6 to 8 months to reach maturity. Guatemalan varieties require 12 to 18 months. Fruit left on the tree will grow larger and usually will not ripen. Purple types are left on the tree until they reach full purple color. Commercial growers must allow the fruit to remain on the tree until it reaches 8% oil content.
Ahuacuatl is the Aztec word for testicle. No doubt the name arose because of the way the fruit of the tree hung in pairs reminding those ancient people of human male anatomy. Over many centuries the avocado has maintained its reputation as an aphrodisiac.
Origin of the name:
Avocado: From "awa guatl," a South American Indigenous word for testicle.
The Spanish took this term and used to refer to what we now call the avocado. Pear-shaped fruit with dark green, leathery skin, a large stony seed, and greenish-yellow edible pulp.
To the Spaniards 'ahucatl' sounded like 'avocado' (= 'advocate', Spanish), and so the fruit came to Europe, via Spain, under that name.
The English living in Jamaica called the avocado an "alligator pear." Some speculate that they were comparing the skin to that of an alligator. Others say alligator was a corruption of ahuacatl.
In the 1700's English seamen discovered that the avocado could be used as a spread to soften the hardtack they had for meals. The avocado spread soon became known as "midshipman's butter."
The word avocado appears to resemble the term for lawyer in some languages. The French call their lawyer avocat and use the same word for the fruit; the Italians use avvocato for the attorney and avocado for the fruit; the Spanish say abogado for the legal expert and aguacate for the fruit. The Spanish word aguacate is derived from the Aztec ahuacuatl.
When Hernando Cortez conquered Mexico in 1519, he found that the avocado was a staple in the native diet. Fernandez de Oviedo, the historian accompanying the conquistadors, wrote this description in 1526: "In the center of the fruit is a seed like a peeled chestnut. And between this and the rind is the part which is eaten, which is abundant, and is a paste similar to butter and of very good taste." Since it reminded him of a dessert pear, he ate it with cheese. Other Spaniards preferred to season it with salt and pepper or to add sugar to it.
The Conquistadors discovered a unique use for the avocado seed. The seed yields a milky liquid that becomes red when exposed to air. The Spaniards found they could use this reddish brown or even blackish indelible liquid as ink to be used on documents. Some of these documents are still in existence today.
http://www.living-foods.com/articles/avocado.html
There's a lot of interesting stuff on the Avocado out there on the web- and the California Fruit Growers Association has interesting fact sheets on may other rare and interesting fruit.
This is a good site to read:
http://www.innvista.com/health/foods/vegetables/avocado.htm
In South China the Avocado is called "Ngau Yau Gwo" which means Cow Grease Fruit [or Butter Fruit] .
One trick I use to stop Avos from turning brown when cut is to leave the pip in the bowl - and for some reason the fruit do not know that they have been cut open and they do not oxidise and go brown so quickly - lemon juice helps too.
As all living things are either Yin or Yang [male or female] or both and carry an electrical charge - then An Avo Meter may well give you a reading that might indicate what sexual leaning a tree might have - but with an Avo tree it would probably depend on the time of day and where on the tree you attached the Avo meter terminals !!!
Does that nail it for you ?
We can all now enjoy our Alligator Pears that much more.
Cheers Ron
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Ron Clibborn-Dyer [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hong Kong SAR, China
Friday, September 10, 2004 at 09:33:06 (UTC)
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Tina you forgot to add that you can always tell if it is the lion from Nyhamhunga it has got a ring round its bottom with being confined on the Loo for several hours.
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And dont kid yourself if I tied the knot there would be no slipping.x
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Friday, September 10, 2004 at 06:42:20 (UTC)
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I love learning new ideas all the time.....must take my AVO metre to the local fruit and vegetable markets.... ;0)
The talk of hammering of nails brought back a memory that I still giggle about..must share.......a friend of mine was having all sorts of problems with a tree on her neighbours side of the fence it would shed leaves and block the skimmer for her pool...when the easterlies blew...(ask Perthites what they are) there were even more leaves to contend with, Marnie (my friend) contacted the neighbours to ask if they could cut some of the huge branches...(tree was about 10feet tall and wide) "not a chance"..so onto the local shire council......a letter returned said "said they couldn't help. contact the owner of the house......" so Marnie did..well hell will freeze over before these nice kind people would do anything about it.......one night (very very late )after a few imbibing of the nice warm stuff.......(Amarula !!) and speaking of mean and horrible things to do to trees .........Marnie and I jumped the said fence with a handful of nails and hammer..snuck to the said tree and hammered in at least a dozen nails in the trunk.....(we had been informed, the best way to give a tree a bit of a hurry-a-long in other words kill it...drive copper nails into the trunk of the tree....) note "copper nails" well nothing happened.......the tree just grew and threw her leaves all over the place...........I now know why the bleddy tree din't kark it............we were giving it bleddy vitamin needles (ordinary nails)........
eventually Marnie moved , one day visiting the neighbour on the otherside of her old house...she noticed something different.........the tree was gone!!!!!
new neighbours had moved in. :0)
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Friday, September 10, 2004 at 05:28:41 (UTC)
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re:AVO
The analog type AVO I believe, can be used to determine the sex of Avocado seedlings & definitely reversed coils in induction motors.
New fangled digital meters are not able to do this.
You need to determine the movement of the needle when you perform the "flick test"
Bill Hunt [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Widenham, Natal, South Africa
Friday, September 10, 2004 at 04:49:29 (UTC)
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Bob,
Although the Avometer Model 8 is still available, has been since the ‘60’s, the term AVO is now used to mean any of the many instruments available for measuring Amps, Volts and Ohms (hence the term AVO).
The Model 8 is a rather large, cumbersome, analog instrument. There are a great many small, digital instruments available. They are a lot more accurate and robust. Avometer make several of these. Another good make is Fluke.
Charles
Didn't I read somewhere that one of the first duties of the newly formed UN, back in the '40's was to officially declare Broken Hill the Centre of the Known Universe?
Alan Pringle [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Manama, Bahrain
Friday, September 10, 2004 at 04:31:40 (UTC)
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Tina:
Will you be counting the dimpled chads on the voting cards or does one have to poke the hole all the way through. There was a little controversy over that in your last election, and you won by one dimple, which I don't really condone. However, as you know, I love a good road show, so count me in as a campaign worker.
Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Friday, September 10, 2004 at 00:47:46 (UTC)
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Washington Times
Kariba, Zimbabwe, Sep. 9 -- "Excuse me, there's a lion in the loo," Zimbabwean safari operator Peter Calera politely informed his colleague Steve Pope by telephone.
Residents of Nyamhunga, a township near Kariba, were trying to drive three lions out of town last week by throwing stones when a young male took refuge
in a public toilet, The Star of Gauteng reported Thursday.
Pope and Calera called everyone they could think of -- including police, the army, National Parks officials and veterinarian Rob Rees, who answered the cry for help.
Rees agreed to shoot the animal with a tranquilizer dart, but he was in Harare, about 218 miles away, a three hour drive.
So, Pope and Calera trapped the lion in the bathroom with a game capture net and for the next three hours, took turns shining a light into his face to keep him from lunging.
The story had a happy ending, with Rees finally arriving and sedating the animal, which was then loaded into a truck and released back into the bush. - UPI
Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Thursday, September 09, 2004 at 23:17:06 (UTC)
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Bob:
A Ninternet Search reveals (at the Megger U.K. website)
http://www.avointl.com/uk/products/ProductDetails.asp?ID=302&Description=
that:
"The AVOMETER® Model 8 Mk 7 is a general-purpose, portable, analogue multimeter for the measurement of voltage, current and resistance.
The Avometer Model 8 Mk 7 is suitable for use in many areas of electrical and electronic work in the laboratory, in the workshop and in the field. Measurements are easily made when fault finding, servicing or installing and commissioning equipment. The instrument is robust enough to withstand normal use in this type of work".
(But then it hasn't met the carefree normal use of the South African workman).
Linda:
Thank you for your fearless campaign support. I'm looking to make the lady in red Campaign Manager/Minister of Defence. She will make sure people know which side of defence they are on.
Charlie:
Welcome! And welcome to the off-board voters! We are taking this campaign for the NR/Zambian World Party off the GNR and on the road. Join us in Rio next Tuesday. We'll show them why we call it a "Party". On to Cape Town and Copperbelt by next spring!
Johnny:
Despite my own border ancestory this candidate is too pure - the rope would just slip from my neck.
Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Thursday, September 09, 2004 at 18:49:07 (UTC)
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Fiona - Ouch!
Charles Cartmill [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stellenridge, Cape Town, South Africa
Thursday, September 09, 2004 at 18:48:12 (UTC)
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It seems that an avometer is some come of voltage reader. If you are really that interested you can buy one here http://stores.ebay.com/Cooke-International_Multimeters_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZQ2d1QQsclZallQQsotimedisplayZ2QQtZkm
Fiona Gayther (née Ferguson) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tytherington, Gloucestershire, United Kingdom
Thursday, September 09, 2004 at 18:26:09 (UTC)
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What are Avo meters? Our electrical department here get asked for them. Are they for measuring the size, girth, weigh or texture of avos? I am a bit dumb here so I need some feedback. This is a serious enquiry.
Bob Gillies [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Springs, Gauteng, South Africa
Thursday, September 09, 2004 at 16:39:26 (UTC)
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I am all for building a platform Tina just make sure it has a trapdoor in it.
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Thursday, September 09, 2004 at 08:14:55 (UTC)
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As far as I’m aware Avos (Alligator Pears) are hermaphroditic – male in the morning, and female in the afternoon – therefore self-polinating. When I lived in George, I had two magnificent trees of disparate lineage; there are many varieties and hybrids. They bore literately tons of fruit per season, spanning two-year cycles, and we harvested for almost a year per cycle. The problem arises with polination, as they require a relatively windfree environment. The pollen is very fine, and can be aided if there’s a pine tree in the viscinity. Pine pollen is much more coarse, and acts as a ‘sticking agent’. My next-door neighbour and I kept beehives – which also helped with the polination. Avos don’t enjoy frost. I used to bury old nails and iron at their bases, as I also believe they require high iron content soils. Also, keep an eye out for zinc and magnesium deficiences – yellow mottling of the leaves. It will take an Avo many years to bear fruit if grown from a pip.
Tina Magee – you beguiling smooth talker, you! Of course you’ve got my vote.
The nention of ‘barneys’ and ‘tribal wars’ appeals to my Hibernian ancestory – plus you’ve included Broken Hill/Kabwe/Mulungushi twice in your definition of the Centre of the Known Universe (My “Readers Digest Great World Atlas” records the area of Zambia as 288,130 square miles (746,253.3 Sq. Km). Given your infallible consideration of the significant role played by BH/Kabwe in the greater scheme of things, I’m confident you can count on Peter D’s support as well.
PS I wonder why young Arthur thinks I’m an Alsation?
Charles Cartmill [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stellenridge, Cape Town, South Africa
Thursday, September 09, 2004 at 08:06:14 (UTC)
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David,
Johnny was right - Avos do sleep - but on their feet !
You have to check their night emissions !
At night they will be emitting CO2 - whilst during the day they will be emitting Oxygen.
Do not leave any leaf unturned.
Good Luck and Long Life - you'll need both to see them fruit.
Ron [Ingest]
Ron Clibborn-Dyer [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hong Kong SAR, China
Thursday, September 09, 2004 at 00:42:19 (UTC)
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Ron C. Dyer,
You are not the one to apologize to me but I will accept it anyway as upon reflecting on the message I posted, I must admit I was a little curt! I am sorry if my message to you was such, and I respect you for your forthright response. Keep the messages coming about trees or whatever and I'll simply scroll down to skip it altogether!
Best wishes.
Helen D'Cruz [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Temecula, California, United States
Wednesday, September 08, 2004 at 21:16:00 (UTC)
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Thanks Johnny,
not one to disappoint, but have now discovered that the ruddy things don't sleep!!
David Atkiss [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Nottingham, United Kingdom
Wednesday, September 08, 2004 at 21:07:03 (UTC)
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Arthur and all Politburo Members
Your bribes (to continue this whimsical campaign in GNR territory and solicit other views) are in the mail.
Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Wednesday, September 08, 2004 at 19:47:46 (UTC)
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A quick look in from work....Well, I've just sent off a Press Release and partially re-vamped a trifold. It's time for a break.........
The center of the known universe shall be defined as 290,586 square miles (752,614 square kilometres) corresponding to the borders of Zambia once known as Northern Rhodesia. Constituents are completely free to pick personal mini-centers within these boundaries. The Government will support that right. They are merely requested to pick up any tables and broken glass resulting from any barneys and tribal wars incurred and arrange their own transport to the hospital. May I count on your vote Charles?
Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Wednesday, September 08, 2004 at 19:42:16 (UTC)
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Charlie, Tina
The GNR is governed by a Politburo, any uprisings (and most of you will have forgotten the meaning of that word by now) will be put down with a bucket of cold water.
We already know what's good for you.
Arthur Steevens [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stockport, United Kingdom
Wednesday, September 08, 2004 at 19:37:55 (UTC)
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Tina Magee,
"That NR/Zambia" (Broken Hill) "is the center of the" (known) "Universe" - is a given!
We concur (smiley)
Charles Cartmill [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Stellenridge, Cape Town, South Africa
Wednesday, September 08, 2004 at 18:12:25 (UTC)
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Actually I invite the GNR to help develop a platform (but not one that will actually get silly people fighting for real). Go for it! What are your ideas?
Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Wednesday, September 08, 2004 at 17:12:41 (UTC)
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Very good Ali! Actually my preference is for stilettos and they aerate the lawn too so they are environmentally friendly!
It is a requirement to have a good sense of humour or be open to developing one. I will employ a chemical weapon for defence - laughing gas. Then we'll scoop them up while they're all helpless with laughter.
Now here's the interesting thing - you don't need a platform to collect votes. People are so dissatisfied with the present choice they simply decide you will be better. I checked around my friends and around work and now have nearly 30 people voting for me so far. This is fun! I nearly lost one after Ted woke up properly but thank goodness for bribery and corruption! However I need to develop a platform (even out of biodegradable wood substitute) so will be back later with a few ideas. That NR/Zambia is the center of the Universe is a given.
Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Wednesday, September 08, 2004 at 17:08:10 (UTC)
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Hello Pappy,
Thanks for the info on nails in Avo trees.
Did you ever know my friend the farmer who sold Bananas in Lusaka market under the name of Davric Bananas in thew early 1960s - he had a long avenue of huge Avo trees on his farm out west of Lusaka and he used to give huge Avos away with every bunch of bananas bought. They were absolutely delicious.
Now - back to Bubble Gum and the Mbungu fruit.
There are many species of Landolphia throughout Africa in the form of trees, shrubs and creepers - and the fruit of these in NR / Zambia are called Mbungu
I am going to apologize to Helen right now as I am now going to paste and post the entire list of these species so that you and others who are or were familiar with the Bubble Gum fruit can try to pick out which species they collected the fruit from.
It will also help later on if people can say what month they collected the fruit and if they can describe the flowers, leaves and stem [tree - bush or vine]
So here we go - switch off now if you have had enough of trees and fruit.
Best wishes, Ron
THE MBUNGU FRUIT
Landolphia species
http://www.naturalhub.com/natural_food_guide_fruits_uncommon_Landolphia_spp.htm
Names:
Bemba - Mubongo
Likouala Pygmy - malombo
Ngindo - Ndoro
Shona - mubungu, mukanga, muwungu
Sotho - marapa
Thonga - mbungu, mabungwa, mahungo
Tswana - inongwe
Venda - muvhungo
Zulu - ibungu, umkuzi
Africaans - meltog, wilde appelkoos
English - wild apricot, wild peach, rubber vine
Description of the plant and fruit
The genus Landolphia is in the 'dogbane' family, Apocynaceae. (Superceded names for the genus Landolphia are: Anthoclitandra, Aphanostylis, Carpodinus, Jasminochyla). Most are woody lianes or sprawly shrubs, the flowers are usually white and scented. Landolphia plants contain a milky latex which exudes when the young bark or unripe fruit are damaged. Some species (L. kirkii, L. gentilli, L. heudelotii, L. owariensis). are considered to have commercially useful amounts, with L. kirkii historically having been the primary source; early Belgian colonists enforced latex collecting until damage almost eliminated all accessible plants, and the Germans ran a significant trade out of 'German East Africa' i.e. Tanzania. The rubber was known as 'landolphia' or 'Madagscar' rubber (there are Landolphia species on the island of Madagascar). The fruits are botanically a berry, and contain many ovoid seeds embedded in a usually stringy pulp.
Very little is recorded about African indigenous fruits in general, and as de-forestation continues less and less information on the species, distribution, ecotypes, plant and fruit variablity will be able to be discovered. The information here is incomplete, mostly tiny scraps gathered from here and there, as the primary bound scientific paper is prohibitively expensive [2].
All information, no matter how minor, eagerly sought!
E-mail me 2f3zue "at" naturalhub.com or http://www.naturalhub.com/email.htm
Landolphia angolensis
Recorded from Zaire, in the warm moist equatorial Congo basin
Landolphia buchananii Stapf.
Recorded in Mozambique and eastern Zimbabwe in southern Africa, and Tanzania and Ethiopia in east Africa. The liane is generally associated with forested environments. The fruit is recorded as being edible, yellow when ripe, and the size of a large orange.
Landolphia bruneeli
Recorded from Zaire in the warm moist equatorial Congo basin
Landolphia capensis Oliv.
Recorded from southern Africa in eastern Botswana, and the Transvaal and Natal regions of South Africa. It is usually associated with dry woodlands and scrub, and grows in rocky conditions. The plant is a low, sprawling, shrub about a metre of two (approx 3-6 feet) high with glossy leathery dark green elliptical leaves.
The fruit are round to pear-shaped whose skin is covered in a fine fuzz ('tomentose'). The skin is tough, and exudes latex when cut (especially immature fruit). The fruits are reddish-yellow when they are ripe, relatively large, with a flavor described as 'pleasantly acid', but 'very sour around the seeds', which number 'few to many'.[1]
Landolphia comorensis K. Schum. synonyms: Landolphia florida, Saba comorensis
Botanical illustration of the flower and sectioned fruit. Illustrations of the leaf form and flowers are probably broadly typical of the genus.
Landolphia congolensis
Recorded from Zaire, in the warm moist equatorial Congo basin
Landolphia dewevrei Stapf
Recorded in the west equatorial country of Gabon
Landolphia dulcis var. dulcis Pichon
Recorded in Senegal, common in ravine and gallery forests of moist climate ecozones. Also recorded as being used as a sweetener in Sierra Leone.
Landolphia foretiana
Recorded from Zaire, in the warm moist equatorial Congo basin
Landolphia glabra Pichon
Recorded from Zaire, in the warm moist equatorial Congo basin
Landolphia heudelotii
Recorded from west equatorial Africa, in Gabon, Guinea, and in Gambia.
Children gathering and eating the fruit, Guinea. A poor black and white photo, FAO site.
Landolphia hirsuta Beauvois
Eaten in the west equatorial African country of Ivory Coast, and is "highly appreciated by the whole population but the fruits, growing on a liana, are rather difficult to obtain. Therefore, the adults get the biggest share of it" [3]. This species has about 32 grams of edible portion per fruit (excluding seeds).
Landolphia incerta Persoon
Recorded in the west equatorial country of Gabon
Landolphia jumellei Pichon
Recorded in the west equatorial country of Gabon & Zaire, where it is associated with tropical equatorial forests.
Landolphia kirkii T. Dyer (this plant may now be known as Dictyophleba kirkii)
Recorded in Tanzania (Gombe) in east equatorial Africa, and found from Natal in South Africa through Mozambique north to Somalia. It is associated with tropical forest and, in southern Africa, coastal lowland subtropical 'bush' (up to 30 metre canopy). Found either as a sprawling bush or a woody liane with tendrils. The small white flowers are sweetly scented.
The almost round fruits are about the size of a mandarin (tangerine). The tough skin encloses a very sweet, stringy pulp with numerous seeds embedded in it. The fruiting season is from November to March.
Landolphia lagustrifolia
Landolphia lanceolata
Recorded in the southern, drier edge of the Congo basin, Zaire, where it is eaten by the 'bonobo' chimpanzee species, Pan paniscus
Landolphia mannii T. Dyer
Recorded in the west equatorial country of Gabon and in the central equatorial Congo basin of Zaire
Landolphia owariensis Beauv.
Recorded from the west equatorial country of Gabon, the central equatorial Congo basin in Zaire, and the Mahale mountain region of western Tanzania.
Landolphia parvifolia 'Mubongo'
Recorded as being eaten in Zambia
Landolphia petersiana T. Dyer. 'Ndoro'
Found in essentially the same range as L. kirkii - Tanzania, and from Natal in South Africa through Mozambique north to Somalia, and again associated with tropical forest and bush. The plant is a sprawling shrub or a woody liane, with tendrils. The sweetly scented white flowers are carried in panicls at the end of the branches.
The fruit is more or less round, with numerous seeds embedded in the soft pulp. The fruits are eaten both when ripe and when nearly ripe. The skin is removed from the semi-ripe fruit, but ripe fruit are eaten skin and all.
Landolphia reticulata
Recorded in the west equatorial country of Gabon .
Landolphia senegalensis
Recorded as a food plant in Mali, west equatorial Africa.
Landolphia stolzii
Recorded in Tanzania.
Landolphia subrepanda Pichon
Recorded in the west equatorial country of Gabon.
Paper Reading
'Food From the Veld: Edible Wild Plants of Southern Africa.' Fox, F.W.; and Norwood Young, M.E. et al
Delta Books, Johannesburg, 1982. ISBN 0-9-8387-32-6 [1]
'African species of Landolphia' P. Beauv. Persoon, J.G.M. et al. (Eds.) From ' Series of revisions of Apocynaceae: Vol. XVI-XVIII'
Wageningen Agricultural University Papers 92-2) Vol. XXXIV.ISBN 90-6754-234-2 . 1992 [2]
(Available for sale from Wageningen Agricultural University )
Gabetta B, Martinelli E M, Mustich G. 1973 'Plants of Mozambique -III. Flavonoids of Landolphia kirkii'.
Fitoterapia 44, 93 (1973).
Herzog F, Gautier-Béguin D, Müller K 'Uncultivated plants for human nutrition in Côte d'Ivoire' in 'Domestication and commercialization of non-timber forest products in agroforestry systems- Non-Wood Forest Products 9'
Published by the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations. 1998. [3]
Electronic Reading
Thompson J, 1999 'Evolution of the Apes and the Origin of Human Beings' in Report on SAGA2/COE Symposium
accessed 30/05/00
Ron Clibborn-Dyer [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hong Kong SAR, China
Wednesday, September 08, 2004 at 16:08:45 (UTC)
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Ron,
I think if you knock nails into the avo tree it works.I can remember as a kid Anton Van Heerden and I had a tree
house in an avo tree,and I tell you what,it had the biggest fruit you have ever seen,and it had so much fruit that it used to fall on the ground,like mangoes or guavas used to.I think they like to be beaten up a bit.Ha!ha!but nails do work.
Pappy Papier [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Glasgow, United Kingdom
Wednesday, September 08, 2004 at 15:34:15 (UTC)
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Ron,
I think if you knock nails into the avo tree it works.I can remember as a kid Anton Van Heerden and I had a tree
house in an avo tree,and I tell you what,it had the biggest fruit you have ever seen,and it had so much fruit that it used to fall on the ground,like mangoes or guavas used to.I think they like to be beaten up a bit.Ha!ha!but nails do work.
Pappy Papier [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Glasgow, United Kingdom
Wednesday, September 08, 2004 at 15:34:10 (UTC)
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linda .......shoes......platform shoes..........giggles
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Wednesday, September 08, 2004 at 15:02:04 (UTC)
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Tina:
Yes, but you can't vote for yourself so 2 of those are illegal. grin.. I'll vote for you. What is your platform?
Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Wednesday, September 08, 2004 at 13:16:08 (UTC)
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Linda
Personally, I'm starting my own political party. I have three votes already!
Tina Magee (née Wallace) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Texas, United States
Wednesday, September 08, 2004 at 13:02:25 (UTC)
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Hello Mike,
I traded my old Mark 1 VW camper in 1986 for the later model Caravelle with wasserbox 2010cc fuel injection porsche engine. The Germans call it the flying brick.
We call it the flying turtle II. It goes like a bomb compared to the old air-cooled one. I keep it in the barn in UK and it has always done me proud on my infrequent visits. This year it objected to being back in Europe and gave me that unforgettable stay in Dieppe and just before I left UK the gearbox took sick leave and locked me into 4th gear - but it was kind enough to get me to my own village and into the only roadside parking space. It went in for an operation as I departed and I await the bill for hospitalisation and recouperation.
Maybe it was all the French cheese in the fridge that put its nose out of joint.
The old models are now worth a fortune !
Cheers Ron
Mike Wilson wrote:-
Hi Ron,
I may be showing my age, but my VW camper had an air-cooled engine. No water pump, no coolant.
Mike
Wednesday, September 08, 2004
____________________________________
Ron Clibborn-Dyer [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Hong Kong SAR, China
Wednesday, September 08, 2004 at 12:30:32 (UTC)
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Robert Plain:
I have the 1958 edition of the Dictionary Grammar and Phrase Book of Fanagalo "The Lingua Franca of Southern Africa as spoken in the Union of South Africa, the Rhodesias, Portuguese East Africa, Nyasaland, Belgian Congo, etc." Written by J.D. Bold and published by the Central New Agency Ltd., South Africa.
Contrary to some previous, somewhat critical and negative discussions about it on the GNR, I found sections of this publication specifically addressed the need to learn and understand the customs of both whites and indigenous people whom it was created to serve, so that they could work around each other in a respectful way. There are, of course, some funny phrases, but then we learn those in any language if we are trying to speak about every day occurences, not so?
Is there anything in particular you would like to learn about. I can see if it is in my copy, but I don't want to part with it. For a handsome fee, however, I would be willing to copy it for you? Make me an offer... grin.
Linda Hayes (née Dore) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Austin, Texas, United States
Wednesday, September 08, 2004 at 12:06:37 (UTC)
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Interesting and encouraging story on the BBC News Africa Page:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/3637034.stm
The headline reads: "Hungry Zambians reap bumper crop"
Barry Robbins [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Fordingbridge, Hampshire, United Kingdom
Wednesday, September 08, 2004 at 11:12:35 (UTC)
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Kris .....my pleasure :0)
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Wednesday, September 08, 2004 at 10:46:22 (UTC)
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This might be the one....the photo is black and white.but it may be the one !!!
http://www.fao.org/docrep/v2535e/v2535e08.jpg
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Wednesday, September 08, 2004 at 10:45:49 (UTC)
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Bill, Ron, I found this article ...like a bloodhound I won't give up until I have found a picture......I think I have found one ;0)
THE MBUNGU FRUIT
Landolphia species
http://www.naturalhub.com/natural_food_guide_fruits_uncommon_Landolphia_spp.htm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Names:
Bemba - Mubongo
Likouala Pygmy - malombo
Ngindo - Ndoro
Shona - mubungu, mukanga, muwungu
Sotho - marapa
Thonga - mbungu, mabungwa, mahungo
Tswana - inongwe
Venda - muvhungo
Zulu - ibungu, umkuzi
Africaans - meltog, wilde appelkoos
English - wild apricot, wild peach, rubber vine
Description of the plant and fruit
The genus Landolphia is in the 'dogbane' family, Apocynaceae. (Superceded names for the genus Landolphia are: Anthoclitandra, Aphanostylis, Carpodinus, Jasminochyla). Most are woody lianes or sprawly shrubs, the flowers are usually white and scented. Landolphia plants contain a milky latex which exudes when the young bark or unripe fruit are damaged. Some species (L. kirkii, L. gentilli, L. heudelotii, L. owariensis). are considered to have commercially useful amounts, with L. kirkii historically having been the primary source; early Belgian colonists enforced latex collecting until damage almost eliminated all accessible plants, and the Germans ran a significant trade out of 'German East Africa' i.e. Tanzania. The rubber was known as 'landolphia' or 'Madagscar' rubber (there are Landolphia species on the island of Madagascar). The fruits are botanically a berry, and contain many ovoid seeds embedded in a usually stringy pulp.
Ali Key [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Perth, Australia
Wednesday, September 08, 2004 at 10:38:26 (UTC)
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Ali and Linda
Bless you!
Regards
Kris
Kristien E. Massie (née Mostert, formerly Van Woenssel) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
United Kingdom
Wednesday, September 08, 2004 at 10:23:26 (UTC)
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David you do need a male and a female tree, You can maybe have a quick peep when they are asleep, Johnny.
Johnny [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Scarborough, United Kingdom
Wednesday, September 08, 2004 at 07:55:03 (UTC)
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Ron:
Thanks for a lovely post. I am still laughing. Bet you'll never forget your time in Dieppe!!!
June
June Dobson (née Jocks) [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Christchurch, Canterbury, New Zealand
Wednesday, September 08, 2004 at 07:36:10 (UTC)
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Hi Ron,
I may be showing my age, but my VW camper had an air-cooled engine. No water pump, no coolant.
Mike
Mike Wilson [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Dawlish, Devon, United Kingdom
Wednesday, September 08, 2004 at 06:30:58 (UTC)
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