Message Board -- Great North Road (GNR, Northern Rhodesia, Zambia)

The Great North Road. Click here to go to the home page.

Northern Rhodesians Worldwide

Message Board

Random Boma links:

MESSAGE BOARD MENU:
[ Current messages ] [ Archived messages ] [ Add photos ] [ Important notes & tips ] [ Lost passwords ]

Having finished a monumental 20hr journey to get back to Texas in time to celebrate my son's 17th birthday straight off the plane last night, I am knackered to the max today. After a few hours sleep, had to report for duty at work this morning. Would much rather have been drinking a spot of English tea at Fiona's.

Fiona, David and my new daughter, Lizzie (a.k.a. Super Star):
Thank you SO MUCH for your generous hospitality! I miss you guys tremendously already. David, you are one in a million for all the hard work you did for people you don't even know. Lizzie, what can I say. I fell in love with you and wish I had a daughter like you. What a beautiful and special young lady. Fiona, thank you so much for what you did for me. I will remember your kindness for a long time to come.

Kevin Shone:
I owe you BIG TIME, my buddy. You drove me half way around the UK, twice!! That is friendship, and you are very much appreciated.

Graham Longstaff:
Several ladies are asking for your phone number. You were a big hit and I am glad you made the effort to come and see us. You have come a long way from the spotty younger brother of my best friend 30 years ago!

The Robbins Family:
I am so glad we got to meet and talk. Ollie is an incredible young man and I see him going places with his film making talents. I plan to take his documentary to my son's school and I hope they show it to the whole school. Well done!

Des Kenny:
Don't know if the word has reached you yet, but I am limping along with bruised ribs at the moment. You may not remember giving me a bear hug at the party on Saturday night, but I got bruised ribs in the process. Well worth it, though!

Pappy and Shirley
I stand in awe of you, Paps. Never have I seen anyone consume so much alcohol for such a sustained period and yet remain on his feet!

To all the others that I met and talked to, you are wonderful people and it was lovely to put names to faces and get to know you a bit better.

Linda Hayes, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, November 30, 2004 at 23:53:22 (UTC)

Thanks to everyone for their kind comments. I'm so glad you all enjoyed it so much - makes it all so worthwhile. It was exceptionally hard work, which I made harder for myself by having the kitchen redone before the party, and I am incredibly grateful to my friends Linda Hayes and Kevin Shone and also to my family (especially Liz, my daughter) who gave me so much help. I have to say that I was so knocked out the following morning that I could do little more than watch as they put my house back together again!

It was also lovely to meet lots of people I hadn't met before, including the Kenwards, the Robbbins family and Graham Longstaff. I think I had met all the rest before but if I've left you out it's because I'm still looking like a stunned mullet after all that partying! Basically, it was four days in a row, starting with the pub on Thursday night and continuing to lunch (another pub!) with the stragglers on Sunday so it's hardly surprising my poor liver is about to give up the ghost!

It was also lovely to see the Brasso family who decided to come at the last moment. They didn't seem to mind crashing on the lounge floor amidst all the party mess! They also helped to clear up afterwards.

There were a couple of stallwarts, namely my brother and Moi Moo Fenwick, who played around on Sunday morning. Oops! Sorry, played A ROUND (of golf!).

The food seemed to be a great success so thanks to Pappy, David and John for their help with the braaiing.

I said goodbye to my last visitor, Tina, at 5 am this morning when I dropped her off at the station. It all seems so quiet now.

Once again, thanks to everyone for coming and helping to make it such a success.

P.S. I think the final tally was about 35 people (but it felt like 135!)

Fiona Gayther, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, November 30, 2004 at 14:33:19 (UTC)

Ian Meyrick, Finella Webber, Norman Kenward, Linda Papier, Philip Dacre, Briuce Henley
Best wishes on your birthday

THE TIYENDE

Northerners

I know you are all waiting for these, so have done the best I could in the short time that I have this afternoon. And now to see how good my memory is at putting names to faces. Correct me if I am wrong and please fill in the blanks

These from Johnny Green:

Tina, Linda and Fiona

Pappy, two half hidden faces, don't know, Fiona, Kevin, Linda, Shirley (?), Johnny

?, Shirley, Kevin, Pappy, ?, Linda, Tina

Pappy and Shirley

Natasha Brassington

Johnny, Shirley, Pappy

?, Fiona and Graham Wall

Tina, ?, Kevin, Fiona

Scott Brassington, Fiona, Shirley, Pappy

Kevin Shone

Is this Diane Sewley and Adrian Mooy?

?, Scott, ?

These from Fiona Wall:

Linda and Gary Brassington

Moira Fenwick and Brasso

Moira and Glenda Fenwick, Graham and Fiona Wall

Fiona Wall, Kevin, Tina

Everyone

Graham and Fiona Wall

But I have a bone or two to pick with the organisers. Why does everyone organise their bashes around my monthly deadline? If it had been a week (or two weeks) earlier, I would have been able to attend. Who arranged the T-shirts and has forgotten the spelling of Tiyende?

David Gray has also kindly sent me the following

I see that Skatie Fourie posted a write-up on the GNR about the Flame Lily Foundation and the various get togethers enjoyed by members and GNRers. The last one was a braai on the 20th of November 2004. The picture below was taken by Mini McAlpine of those present who attended the Frederick Knapp School during the 40s and 50s. As you can see some of us are looking a little the worse for wear!

Those shown in the picture are:
Top row - Skatie Fourie and Denis Galotti
Middle row - Bets McCullam, Mrs. Ingram, Joan Leck (Ingram), Cecelia Codriac (Mostert), Marian Herring (Meyer)
Front row - Charley Crowther, Neville Leck, Darryl Leck, Ronnie deKock and David Gray.

Being only partially computer literate I don't know what format the picture is in and whether it lends itself to posting on the GNR. If it is possible to post this then please do us the honour! I have Mini's blessing to use her picture.

Thanks to all for taking the time to send us the photos for posting.

Keith Binns

What about you organise the first Middle-East bash?

Heather Chalcraft, Zambia [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Tuesday, November 30, 2004 at 14:27:46 (UTC)

I have just been reading Phillip Pain's description of the mine pool in Kitwe (June 2003). Even though I am a bit younger than him it certainly did bring back many happy memories! It seems that the routine did not change and we all experienced the same fun & excitement during summer (did it really last forever?)! Also, talking of the Kafue River at the end of Central Street also brings many memories flooding back. My brother Billy (no Angel, as anyone who remembers him will know) and a group of his friends were playing on the banks of the Kafue and throwing stones at a beehive! The inevitable happened and a stone knocked the beehive off of the tree and the bees swarmed. My folks would no doubt never have been aware of what had happened except that a friend of theirs came to the house to see if Billy was alright. It seems the gent had been driving along Central Street and Billy rushed past him (on foot)! This kid, who was actually quite a toughie, was in such a hurry to escape the swarming bees he must have set a new 'land speed record'. Tragically, Bill was shot and killed in a hijacking in 2001, but I know he would have loved this site.

June Ross, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, November 30, 2004 at 13:49:09 (UTC)

For all and sundry. The Zambian reunion which was held in the Bristol area last Saturday, 27/11/04, was not just a resounding success and a party to remember, but a gathering of people who were warm, open, friendly and a total pleasure to be with. They are indicative of the people of Africa of the time, who openly embrace those from outside, as well as inside the community we once shared, regardless of the place they hailed from. To all those who think these gatherings are a load of c**p, think again! Get motivated and support whoever hosts them. To Fiona, never mind, words are not good enough to say thanks.

Graham Longstaff.

Graham Longstaff, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, November 30, 2004 at 12:00:24 (UTC)

I was Sheila Duncan and lived in Chingola mainly, until 5th year of school, when I went to Boarding School in JHB.
Would like to know whereabouts of Phillip Van Der Byl who was our neighbour in Kubundi.
Also Shaina Roberts
Elspeth Young (sister Penny I think)
Phillip Chirwa (Mother Annie was our housegirl)

If anyone is living in the vicinity of Kubundi, Chingola,
I would give my eye teeth for a photo of Gardenia Street - I can't remember the number of the house, about 5 houses down I think, and a photo of the town of Chingola as it is now.

Thanks a million.
Sheila.

Sheila Moran, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, November 30, 2004 at 01:26:11 (UTC)

Norman K,
Congrats on reaching 72 and... surviving the Bash.
I made sure I did not think one electronic synapse all weekend of you all as I was consumed by green monster, but it sounded muhle.
Norman, watch out as you wind the "E' type up to more than 50 kph..... you are now old and cannot see, your eyes are dim, and etc.
Bill

William Knott, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, November 30, 2004 at 01:23:53 (UTC)

To Fiona, Linda, Tina and everyone at the Tiyende we would like to thank you all for making us most welcome.

To be honest, we had reservations about going as we thought we might not know anyone. This doubt was all brushed aside within minutes of our arrival. We were made most welcome - a Castle lager was thrust into the one hand and a Steak, together with Boerewors in the other! What better welcome could anyone expect ?
Before long we were chatting and reminiscing about the good old days.

It was great to be able to put faces to the many contributors to the G.N.R. People such as Johnny, Syd,
Gary, Barry, Dave and most important of all - the ladies - Fiona, Linda, Tina and their families.

To each and everyone many many thanks for a memorable evening................ here's to the next one!

Catherine and Norman K.

Guess what! It's Tuesday 30 November 2004

My BIRTHDAY!!!! 72 and still at it. The beer I mean!!!!

Norman Kenward, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, November 30, 2004 at 00:06:39 (UTC)

Thanks fellow Tyendes for a first rate tonk, Fiona and Dave will be cleaning up for the next few weeks, we should have one of those every month and what a great laugh we had round the table in the local pub on the friday night and to one generous by stander from Lincolnshire who insisted on buying a round, for all the nearest he had been to Africa was Cornwall a nice guy by the name of Eamon.
To all the girls I proposed to most of you will not remember any way, All of you Shalla Neepo, Johnny.

Johnny, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, November 29, 2004 at 19:21:41 (UTC)

Fiona,David,
Thanks for the hospitality,Liz,you can keep Shania Twain as a thank you,you are a star,please give my thanks to Laural and Bob,the B&B was great.
The rest of you what can I say,can WE party or what,out of interest how many members do we have in Scotland?
Kevin,Skipper,Garry and Grahame lets get together and sample some whiskies some time,all i can say is tyende to the next one.

Pappy Papier, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, November 29, 2004 at 18:29:52 (UTC)

I notice on the BBC News website that a little spat has broken out between Thabo Mbeki and Archbishop Tutu.

What amuses me is a reference to Robert Mugabe and a similar row with Tutu. The website says.....

"In May, Zimbabwe's President Robert Mugabe called Archbishop Tutu "an angry, evil and embittered little bishop" after the Nobel Peace Prize winner likened Mr Mugabe to an archetypal African dictator."

Talk about throwing stones in glass houses!

John Evans

John Evans, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, November 29, 2004 at 17:56:37 (UTC)

Sorry - NIECE!
I know - 'i' before 'e' except after 'c'....

Sue Coughlan, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Monday, November 29, 2004 at 16:51:45 (UTC)

Hi all your tired Tytherington-ers,

Sounds like you all had a hell of a lot of fun. Well done Fiona, her family and another Kitwe Bun, Linda - not forgetting the Lusaka Bun, Tina. Looking forward to the video (what a treat!) and the photos.

I would like to encourage my neice Kim Elizabeth Forde, who was born in Kitwe (mid-60's) to my brother Dennis and his wife Doris, to become a GNR-er.

Come on Kimbo, register - you never know who you will connect with here.

If anyone remembers Kim, please post a message.

Sue Coughlan, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Monday, November 29, 2004 at 16:49:48 (UTC)

Just want to add my thanks to Fiona and all involved in the Tytherington Tiyende - the Robbins family (ex-Ndola)certainly had a great time (even though we had to creep out while the party was in full swing). The food & company were superb. It was wonderful to meet so many of the message board regulars and put faces to names.
My son Ollie and I took some video footage whilst at the Tyendi and will probably edit it down to a 3 - 5 minute 'taster' of the event. Craig/Heather, if I produce a suitably compressed version of it, what are the chances of having it available for download or streaming from GNR? It would allow those who couldn't go to the Tyendi an opportunity to see what these events are all about!
Let me know if that would be possible.
Thanks again Fiona.
Looking forward to the next one!

Barry Robbins, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, November 29, 2004 at 16:33:22 (UTC)

All this talk about not being able to hold the camera straight and the need
for tripods and other such nonsense, how about this one? Taken a week or so
ago in Lincolnshire, a spectacular sunset (yes, we DO have them in UK too
although not seen as often as in Z). I reckon I had the camera at the
correct angle, but what can one do about cock-eyed lamp posts?

Cheers

Liz Downing

PS Will be in Zam in less than two weeks - can't wait!

Heather Chalcraft, Zambia [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Monday, November 29, 2004 at 12:59:46 (UTC)

BBC Prime 'No Going Back' featuring the London couple in Zambia was the previous Friday! Sorry you missed it, it was worth seeing.

I have made contact with some friends from my youth and am enjoying being a member of GNR. I have so many happy memories which had been tucked away for way too long! Thanks again for the great site.

June Ross, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, November 29, 2004 at 12:25:13 (UTC)

The Tytherington Bash.
Reading all your comments you guys must have had a great time, good on you.
I can imagine what it was like with all you lot getting together!!!

Nicky Kontou, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, November 29, 2004 at 10:56:07 (UTC)

Many Happy returns of the day to dear Lynn Fielder nee' Clark, hope you have a smashing time, kick up your heels and enjoy your self, I will be toasting you a drink on your birthday 29/11/04 - cheers, Christina Dillon.

Christina Dillon, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, November 29, 2004 at 10:26:28 (UTC)

We are back home in sunny Wales, thanks for a lovely 'Tytherington Bash' great to meet up with everyone again. Special thanks to Fiona Gayther to allow us all to destroy her home, I assume rebuilding commences soon!!

Keith Binns
As an ex Sand Dweller to my knowledge there has not been a reunion organised in the Middle East.

Tina and Linda

Safe home, great to see you both, still impressed at Tina for her 'staying power' (leaping off a plane and straight into party mode) although the staring episode at the blank wall was noticed by me! (smile).

Thanks again Fiona for a fab time.

Graham and Fiona Wall, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, November 29, 2004 at 10:15:59 (UTC)

We are safely back @ home & posting under my own sign in. Fiona, Dave & Family a very big thank you for your superb hospitality and a brilliant weekend. We thoroughly enjoyed ourselves.To Kevin, Linda, Tina, Moo Moo, Glenda, John, Graham & Fiona, Pappy & Shirley, Dianne, Etc. and all those others attending good to see you all again and yes what great company you all were. Thanks all for a superb weekend.

Brasso.

Gary Brassington, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 28, 2004 at 22:22:11 (UTC)

A summary on events in the Cape Peninsula

Hi everyone, we have ended our year with a fabulous grand finale, a Northern / Southern Rhodesian braai, then rushed home to painfully watch the Springboks ‘botch’ a good day.
The Flame Lily Foundation has grown since it’s reintroduction in the Cape by our select chairman Lewis Walter, we set ourselves a target 3 years ago to grow our membership and committee to enable our Foundation to help Rhodesians in need.
We are based in Fish Hoek, our first function was at the West Lake Golf Club, our Rhodes and Founders Fund Raiser Lunch.
The second and the third year we stepped on board the museum ship the Cable Restorer moored in Simon’s Town.
We had no need to advertise for the 3rd Lunch, the imaginary jungle drums broadcast the news. It was sold out a month ahead of time, that alone speaks for it self in the manner we have bonded.
We hosted an average of 116 per function, all told 349 happy souls.
The Copperbelt Reunion Fund Raiser braai, had a different atmosphere, former Frederick Knapp School buddies came from a far, George Myburgh from Witbank, Charley Crowther from Edenvale, John Robbertze from Johannesburg , Lucille Cooke (Ball) from George, then from behind the biltong line ( our Northern suburbs) David and Anne Gray, Ronnie and Joan West , Martin Louw and Billy McQuire,.

This year it was much the same at our lunch on board the popular museum ship, the
Cable Restorer. Seating has been well laid out amongst the big cable winches etc, for the two functions, a total of 154 reminisced in what had been the very best years of our lives. Why not , when you share the company on Jim McCullum and his charming wife Dolly with Springbok rugby sons Ian and Roy.
Jim captained Nkana and Northern Rhodesia at soccer, and Lock Wylie and Rupert Burls ‘mkulu’ rugby ‘ bwana’s’ both earned national colours.

Our grand finale as mentioned attracted 85 in all.
Bringing together a blast from Frederick Knapp’s Schools past , Cecile Codriac ( Mostert), Charley Crowther, Bets McCullum, Ronnie de Kock, Dennis Galloti, David Gray, Marian Herring ( Meyer), Joan Leck ( Ingram), Neville Leck, Darryl Leck and Ronnie West. We were all still in great spirits as we were then from the class of the 50’s, memories and laughter which can never be erased. David Gray showed some excellent slides of Nkana / Kitwe and to where his family lived when Nega Nega was still a ‘shatini’.
Bill and Kitty McCullum were there too, another great footballer that proudly wore the maroon strip of Nkana. Ronnie and Elese’ de Kock ( de Bruin ex Broken Hill) came down from Krugersdorp.
We dig deeper than just the normal social gathering, individual visits from Robert Ball ( Vereeniging ), Mich and Yvonne Coetzee ( Witbank), Doug and Rina Penny ( Sinoia Zim), Brian Ison ( Durban) and Drucilla van Diggelen ( Souter, Boksburg ). My wife Avril ( Pressly ex Kimberley) a non Rhodesian has shown real passion in taking our pride further, she has arranged for a Rhod/Zim tea and a Bingo / Sing along on a monthly since 2002. This allows the pensioners to meet twice a month to built new friendships and socialize in new activities in their lives.
The reward is a blessing, as we are filling our greatest objective, to get people together. All these functions provide comfort and aid to members of the Flame Lily Foundation. Our get togethers also attract non Rhodesians as many South Africans are drawn to the spirit of friendship and fun that is generated. Catch you guys later.
Skatie Fourie
Vice chairman FLF
Cape Peninsula
Noordhoek

Skatie Fourie, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 28, 2004 at 16:13:16 (UTC)

Like I said, everyone is posting under my sign in, and that message was from Tina. I am NOT responsible for licking Kevin's face!

Happy Birthday Ali.

Syd, if you read this, I really enjoyed our talk and am disappointed that I did not get to meet Mrs. Syd. It sounds like you have a lovely family.

Linda

Linda Hayes, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 28, 2004 at 15:34:33 (UTC)

a very simple message following the bash - happy birthday Ali! We just came back from a great Sunday pub lunch. Some of the bodies had quite a bit of life in them. Kevin Shone and Fiona's brother John may even live. At least they look good hungover. Fiona Wall was already working on her next party and by the end of lunch was able to tell us she got her laptop in Hung Tong. Then came the parting of most of the ways as many people left for home.

After getting off a plane from the States yesterday morning I made it through to 11.45 p.m. when it occurred to me I had been staring at the same portion of wall for 20 minutes and therefore had to be bedtime. No salacious stories. If anyone shared my bed I was too zonked to know.

I do know though that Kevin woke up having his face licked.

Linda Hayes, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 28, 2004 at 15:28:06 (UTC)

Hi all, sounds like you guys at the Tytherington Tiyende are still at it....just phoned Fiona and all are down at the local having lunch......:o)
Had a wonderful day today, swam at Cable beach today, trying to avoid the box-jellyfish, the only problem was the water, it felt like we were body surfing in a spa, it was so warm..........sort of surreal as it was 38c and the water was about 33......different.
We then went to Gantheaum point, where at a very low tide you can see actual fosilised foot prints of dinosaurs, sadly the tide was in, but the scenery and the land formations took that disapointment away.....later on,with a romantic dinner, (mcdonalds ham roll) the place took on a incredible hue as the day came to an end......... to watch the sun set over the Indian ocean looking towards dear Africa was just devine......finished the day off at a lovely cafe, with a mango Daiquri..........nice but not as nice as my favourite "Amarula" all in all one of the best birthdays I have ever had .........only two days left...........I am going to get on the bike, amid the "warmish temps" tomorrow and seek out the flora around the town to photograph, have found many very odd plants and trees, take one for example a tree with what looks like figs coming out of the trunk of the tree.....also pick a few mangoes to take back home for my mango loving family ..........

Ali Key, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 28, 2004 at 15:14:21 (UTC)

Has there ever been a GNR bash in the Middle-East?

Keith Binns, United Arab Emirates [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 28, 2004 at 13:16:29 (UTC)

Tytherington Bash

Sat 27 Nov. @ 16:25, sat at my desk thinking if I switch off my phone now, no more incoming calls, I can get away dead on 16:30. Drive straight up the A38 to Tytherington and be there for 16:45. OK, but what about that woman with the 2 X 4. She said she was going to get me back for catching her out a little time back. Oh well, I'm a big boy now, I'll just have to take it like a man. Pulled into the driveway to be met by a man who said “I’m Fiona's husband, have we met before? I reply "Only through the upstairs bathroom window" Yes I remember" He said, "the beer is this way" and takes me through to the kitchen where most of the people are standing around. Fiona welcomed my and let the others know who I was, started to introduce some of the others but was called away. It was at that point that I spotted my big worry (I had seen a photo of her) and I thought now I'm for it. Well what a big turn around that was, Linda is a big softy. My troubles are all over. No more worries, and I have the proof if I am ever threatened with a bit of 2 X 4 again. What a night, it could only happen when a bunch of GNR's get together. The beer flowed, the singing was out of this world, and all who did not or could not turn up missed the best party in years. I left the party just on midnight as I was taking some bashers back to their hotel, and went on home thinking, that’s the first bash I have been to but come hell or high water, if I’m alive I will go to another. To Fiona and family A VERY BIG THANK YOU.
Syd
P.S. Let me know if you get the photos

Donald Sydney, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 28, 2004 at 12:24:39 (UTC)

Linda et al,

Glad you had a lekker time - up a bit early though? Of course Pappy would stay the course - he was well trained by us Kitwe Buns!

The word is 'babelaas' by the way - the best way to get over it is to have another mosi to wash down the cold borewors and nshima.

Doug - I do love your vivid imagination! You forgot about the Basenjis - my Congolese Hunting Dogs - their bite is definitely worse than their bark!

Speaking of babelaas - I am still trying to recover from Friday night when we took the Shosholoza Express train - all dressed in 60's gear to Magaliesberg for a Christmas party. The train left Magaliesberg at midnight and we partied (all 60's music) back to Park Station, Johannesburg - three hours it took - so we got back into our cars at 3am and home by 3:30! And there were no Zambians, so I think it might be a purely African affliction! Hic! What a blast!

Jilly

Jill Aplin, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 28, 2004 at 12:03:30 (UTC)

Fiona is not capable of responding to anything at the moment. Kevin makes a great dishwasher if anyone is interested in hiring him. Great body too... oops. For all those who had some excuse or other about not coming, you really did miss a great bash. The passing of the Zambian flag was done, and it is now ready for the next bash.

Moi Moo Five Cows is on the golf course with Fiona's brother, John, and I would imagine she will wipe the floor with him.

Get your reservations in early for the next bash!!

Everyone is submitting under Linda's sign in, and she waives all responsibility for tall tales told, confessions of the morning after and those who like to brag..

Linda Hayes, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 28, 2004 at 11:18:21 (UTC)

Having a menage a trois with Gary,Linda and Glenda. Had a wonderful time, good food, good company, a great time in general.

Glenda.

Linda Hayes, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 28, 2004 at 11:11:31 (UTC)

Linda & I R sharing facilities - make what U want of that! Tytherington terrors R traumatised from the terrors of total non stop partying. Have crawled out of bushes and safely found Fiona's kitchen for a "harem" breakfast. Ohhhh more beer, wors and steak & pap. Wow what a party ....... no more said. Great fun and superb company. Plenty of amazing pictures to keep "Sarky Arthur" busy. Where were U Arthur.

Brasso

Linda Hayes, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 28, 2004 at 11:08:31 (UTC)

booble-ass, boggled-bass, how the heck do you spell it? Bubbelaas? Whatever.. a bleddy good time was had by all! 20 crates of beer, 2,000 wine glasses, 12 rolls of (blackmail worthy) photos, dancing, drinking, eating, laughing til our sides hurt, and just a really lekker time. Pappy gets the prize for staying on his feet longer than anyone else after 24hrs of non-stop drinking, and Johnny Green gets the prize for being able to snooze on Beauteous Matwetwe's shoulder on the couch while the walls were shaking the music was so loud! More details later. I'm just looking out of Fiona's window into her garden, and Gary has just crawled out of a bush! He's looking a bit disoriented. I don't think anyone else can party like Northerners!

Linda Hayes, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 28, 2004 at 09:58:01 (UTC)

Hi Jilly
Phew! That's a relief! A picture comes to mind of you dressed as Boudecia at the reins of a chariot made from a cut down landrover, pulled by a brace of zebras, with assegais welded to the wheels, charging through the African veldt, with Beauteous riding shotgun with her 2 by 4 at high port, and on the side of the chariot is written, 'Be afed, be veri afred!

Ali
Hows about you or one of our artistically talented members turning the above into a cartoon.

Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 28, 2004 at 09:36:24 (UTC)

hope to hear from the Tytherington Tiyende attendees soon ???

Ali Key, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 28, 2004 at 08:49:32 (UTC)

have now tread where dinosaurs have been........

Ali Key, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 28, 2004 at 08:46:49 (UTC)

Doug - well done! Look what happens when you obey Boadicea the bad Kitwe Bun! Or was that rough you called me? I won't have to go to visit you in my 4X4.

Mike - It's not common strategy to have two locks in the bin at the same time - does anyone know why Matfield was sent off?

Margaret - Linda is in the UK at the Tytherington Tiyende, so perhaps you should ask to help you next month.

Have a happy Sunday everyone!

Jilly

Jill Aplin, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 28, 2004 at 08:16:50 (UTC)

Hi Jack
thanks for all the research that you have been doing regards Lobengula. I have found a few more reference to his death but no accurate account.

I have heard that the son of the author who wrote the book "Byete" is still alive and living up in Northern Zululand. As his father wrote the book in the early 1920's he may have had access to information from contacts of his who were involved at the time.

I will see if I can get hold of the son and see if he can shed any furthur light on the subject.

If he was buried in Northern Rhodesia it would make the subject very germane to this site.
Once again thanks to all.
Cheers

Philip Pain, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 28, 2004 at 05:32:39 (UTC)

Hi Margaret
I see you are looking for Glen Gilchrist, Glen and I went to school together. He is a member of this web site and you can contract him from here.
Cheers

Philip Pain, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 28, 2004 at 05:01:22 (UTC)

Mike Slement

My Dear Old Dad John Forde, DFC was very proud and honoured to have stood guard all night outside Her Majesty the Queen Mum's door during her visit to Lusaka in 1957.

G'day to all on the GNR. Hope the Tiyendie's are well.

Sue Coughlan, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Sunday, November 28, 2004 at 02:00:14 (UTC)

Mike
Last time at Murrayfield the Scots beats South Africa by a large margin so this made the win sweeter especialy after the fiascos agains't the Irish and the English sides.

I am not much of a rugby tactician. I am like the chap who enjoys Brandy but doesn't know how to make it. Maybe somebody else could answer your question better. Bill Hunt what say you?

Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, November 27, 2004 at 20:32:53 (UTC)

Doug
The rugby scores are much as expected. Scotland is not very strong at present.
The England Australia match could have gone either way although I did not see it as it was only on SKY in the UK.I could only listen to it on the radio
I don’t watch as much rugby as you chaps in SA.Is it standard practice to always weaken the scrum and keep the back line up to full strength if someone is sent off? When the Boks had both their locks sent off at the same time and there was a scrum right on their goal line I would have thought the most important thing at that point was to win the ball. They were never going to succeed with 6 men against 8.

Margaret.
I remember the 1957 visit of the Queen Mother very clearly .We saw her in Lusaka.
They produced some memorabilia mugs for the occasion and we still had them 20 years later.

Mike Slement, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, November 27, 2004 at 19:33:03 (UTC)

Boks 45 Scotland 10 and England got beaten by the Aussies!

Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, November 27, 2004 at 17:50:57 (UTC)

I forgot to ask if anyone knows the whereabouts of Joan Gilchrist (married a greek chap by the name of Leon) and her brother Glen Gilchrist. Also Mervyn Kaplan, he and Glen were good friends.

Thanks again.

Margaret Botha, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, November 27, 2004 at 17:33:22 (UTC)

I would just like to thank all those who have been in contact with me since I became a member of GNR. I have had contact with people all over the world - THANKYOU so much.

I was wondering if anyone knew Darryl Ferreira and Patricia Dippenaar. I haven't heard where Valerie Clark is yet but have spoken to people in Cape Town who were friends with her sister Beverly and Hilary. I believe her parents Fred and Audrey have returned to the U.K.

Was browsing through the archives and came across a photo of my grandfather- Carl Wienand with a group of his friends at the Tea Party held in honour for the Queen Mother who visited Nkana/Kitwe in 1957. My, my I was only 5 years old and I can remember so clearly watching the procession down 11th Avenue!! My Mom spent hours making us new dresses for the occasion!

Thanks again and again for a wonderful site - I AM ADDICTED!!!

Margaret Botha, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, November 27, 2004 at 17:26:51 (UTC)

Heather,
Yes! I think its the same one. The main difference was that the Feb 2002 photo was of course during the middle of the rainy season. I forget how green the vegetation gets during Dec. to March. The road was also repaved recently with bright while lines from the Luangwa Bridge to the Airport turn off in Lusaka. Thanks.

Ayub,
The legend of Manenekera is very famous among Easterners. This was the right of passage located a little further from the tree. Maneneka is near Rufunsa. It was a narrow dangerous meandering gravel road,carved and perched against the edge and side of a steep mountain in the Muchinga Escarpment. There was only enough width on the narrow rough gravel road for one vehicle to travel one way at a time. The solution was then to have all vehicles that arrived at Rufunsa between 7:00 am to 4:00pm allowed to drive through one way while vehicles at Nyimba were prohibited from driving through. After 4:00 pm to 7:00am, the process was reversed. I first travelled on the that road in 1967 as it was being paved starting from Lusaka and Chipata. There was another precarious bridge at Nyimba River. It was about half a mile long low concrete bridge which was barely wider than the bus. The driver drove very carefully at 5 miles per hour over the bridge while older women could not bear looking outside. They wept in fear. Any false move we could have plunged into the river.

Mwizenge Tembo, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Saturday, November 27, 2004 at 05:24:07 (UTC)

Mwizenge/Heather,

Wow! That Baobab tree is still there. I recall it well before the1980's! The Great East Road is also notorious for the stretch referred to as NANA KERA (I may have spelt it wrongly). Is this not where many motorists have been involved in bad accidents?

Ayub Ismail Zumla, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, November 26, 2004 at 21:54:45 (UTC)

Well that was dissappointing! Instead of the Zambia story as advertised they put on a story about Wales!???##@

Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, November 26, 2004 at 21:18:07 (UTC)

Attention South Africans.

Tune to channel 40 BBC Prime at 20 Hours tonight for “No going back: Zambia.” This is the story of a London couple that have gone to Zambia to open a Game Lodge.

Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, November 26, 2004 at 17:35:41 (UTC)

I have used this baobab photo on my desk top for years. I took the photo duing a lovely April morning near Luangwa Bridge on the Great East Road in 1985.

Mwizenge Tembo

Mwizenge

I think this is the same tree, photo taken 28 February 2002, from a slightly different angle.

Heather Chalcraft, Zambia [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Friday, November 26, 2004 at 14:36:42 (UTC)

Hi Arthur,

After my pleas on the message board, and one or two very nice replies, I finally found a "Mufulira" Wolseley 6/110...one owner, a Mr Eksteen from Muf, and copious notes and diaries about his beloved car, just up the road in Hilton.

He bought her new on 16 January 1968, and only did 36000 miles, before he became too ill to drive, and passed the car on to his son, who has lovingly cherished her since then.

I took delivery this morning with a "massive" 36114 miles on the clock!...complete with original tyres and everything else that goes with her...from original owners manual to toolkit and a total time warp back to the 60's as she is "as new"!!

I'm sending a shot of the grille, along with all the badges...if you zoom in, you will see that 3rd from the left is the Northern Rhodesian badge, and then the orange and blue triangular badge of the Northern Rhodesian automobile association, with its "Drive safely" slogan.

Having driven a whole 108 miles today, all I can say is that she is exquisite, and if there is anyone in my area who wants a blast from the past, they are welcome to get in touch with me just to enjoy a little of what it used to be like, being a driver of one of the princesses of the road!

Regards
Paul Cowie

Heather Chalcraft, Zambia [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Friday, November 26, 2004 at 05:50:54 (UTC)

Ted Magee
HAPPY BIRTHDAY..HOPE YOUR DAY HAS BEEN WONDERFUL.........ALI

Ali Key, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, November 26, 2004 at 01:10:25 (UTC)

Ali and Everyone

This is very rambly and chatty so skip if you want strong African links.

I am writing to you from Chris's computer. Man! You should see the list of rules for usage. Mine is in the shop investigating the need for a new C-drive. It has been mad but very happy here the last few days clearing my desk, getting Chris in college (he starts Spring semester, getting me enrolled for graphics related courses, preparing for the trip, Thanksgiving today, Ted's birthday tomorrow and leaving for England that evening. I've been on line long enough to check my mail once a day. I'm so sorry I haven't been there when you were on line! I'll look for you later today.

Just come back from checking the roasties - they're fine - and rescuing my Bruce Springsteen chocolate cup from charbroil. It's not well! How do you manage to put a drink in the microwave for 9 minutes? OK let's add a little more local colour to this ramble. Chris my 19 year old, and I like concerts, all kinds. He is into "seeing the old bands while they still tour" and dragged me to Springsteen. It was fun. I dragged him to Aerosmith and the BB King blues festival a few years back and we both went very willingly to Cold Play, U2 and Audioslave etc. ANYWAY the smartest concert memorabilia on sale anywhere was the Bruce Springsteen morning coffee/chocolate cup. I love it's practicality. Ever since, most mornings, I wake up with Bruce! It'll need some love and attention after being cooked dry in the microwave but it will recover.

Anyway Happy Thanksgiving to all in the U.S.. happy Thursday or Friday to everyone else, I'll wait til Sunday to wish Ali a happy birthday, well it will really be during the bash allowing for time diff won't it?

Tiyendes have fun Friday night, see you Saturday!

Tina Magee, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, November 25, 2004 at 18:12:27 (UTC)

I heard that Ian Knox was trying to make contact with me, (June Botha) and some others from Riverain days. I see he has updated his details but I am still not able to send him an e mail. Please let him know that I am now registered and I would be thrilled to hear from him. If anyone else out there remembers me and would like to catch up I would be happy to hear from them. What a wonderful site this is! Many thanks to all concerned.

June (Botha) Ross

June Ross, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, November 25, 2004 at 09:11:35 (UTC)

Hi Ali,

Pleased to hear you are having such a good time in the Kimberley. I have been there several times and it is a magical place where you can sense the spirituality in the air. Last time I went to Broome I sailed in from Dampier and left 5 days later to sail on up to Darwin. After flying there on previous visits there was a huge sense of achievement to sailing in under your own steam. You felt as if you had really earned the right to be there. The Baobs reminded me so much of Zambia. They spell Baobab differently in both places and I've probably got it wrong altogether. Would love to see your photos so please get in touch.

Keith Binns, United Arab Emirates [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, November 25, 2004 at 09:00:58 (UTC)

There following is a website that has a listing of students who graduated from Gilbert Rennie from as far back as 1958. No listing for Jean Rennie though, perhaps a some Jean Rennie GNR ladies can change that.

There are schools from Zim, Zambia & SA listed. You can add any school and list yourself for free but there is a charge to make contact with someone listed. http://sareunited.com

Allyson Cash, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, November 25, 2004 at 08:07:21 (UTC)

Hi Chris,

Yes it was. I can't wait to get and pass it on to Arthur.

Thanks

Mike Wilson, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, November 25, 2004 at 07:27:17 (UTC)

Craig, Thanks for posting the photos , and Artie, your magic sure works, ( a little secret..I never took the photos,..........I have a straight eye ..........I have let Gavan know that he needs a spirit level........I won't repeat what his reply was .....giggles)........Ron, I don't have the time to do the Gibb River road trip, however I will definitely be up here again, there is so much to see, and one needs lots of money !!!!...one thing I learned is the Australian Baob is the smallest of the Baobs.......they are all coming into leaf and should soon be flowering, sadly I wont see them in flower.
The area is so full of history and amazing sights, I have been bike riding all over the place,AND I am sure the locals think I am mad riding in the heat.....but it is a good way of losing weight. Have had a few thunderstorms here, they are really awesome.....it is a pity I won't be here for the rains , they say the place takes on a beauty all of its own.
Tina, Feef, Linda, etc enjoy yourselves......be thinking of you on Saturday night...........I have a special day planned for Sunday Tina, I have been hoping to catch you online, but to no avail.....hope all is well.
if anyone wants to see my photos email me and I will arrange for you to see them in my online Album.

Ali Key, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, November 25, 2004 at 05:54:23 (UTC)

Mike Wilson

Hope that was you that got the map

Chris Cantrell, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, November 25, 2004 at 00:14:25 (UTC)

This happened to day. Thanksgiving is 24 hours away. My wife told me this a while ago. We are going to a joint thanksgiving dinner at the house of our family friends; Joe and Maggie. Joe is the typical handy type man who fixes everything quickly in the house, in the yard, the car. He is never in the kitchen. His wife does everything in the kitchen.

The wife was getting the oven ready for cooking the thanksgiving turkey. She turned the oven on to the self-cleaning where it locks up and heats the oven and it cleans itself up that way. She left to go and buy fresh turkey from a special store in town. I don’t know how long. When she came back, she found her husband, Joe, standing in the middle of the kitchen with the oven door in his hands. He had walked through the kitchen and noticed that the oven was hot and he couldn’t open it. He had immediately decided to fix it. He had taken apart the whole oven and the parts were scattered on the kitchen floor.

Since he had disrupted its normal self-cleaning cycle, putting the oven back did not work. No repairman would come to the house until late to day. She went to an appliance store and had to buy a brand new oven. I had a big laugh because if this had happened at our house, I would have waited until my wife had come back so I could chew her out for leaving the oven on and worse, locking it. If something breaks in my house, my wife is lucky if I get to it in a week. I am not a very handy man. My wife has made me swear that I will not bring this up to-morrow during thanksgiving at Joe and Maggie’s house. Happy Thanksgiving.

Mwizenge Tembo, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Wednesday, November 24, 2004 at 19:13:44 (UTC)

I had an interesting visitor today. Jimmy Churchill and his wife Elizabeth passed through Vryheid on their tour of KwaZulu Natal. We had lunch together and an interesting chat. Jimmy was working in Saudi and was a regular contributor to this board, but has now retired to Fife, Scotland, and is bored. I have asked him to do a write up of his visit for the GNR when he gets home. They visited Hluhluwe game reserve, then Itala game reserve about 80 Km fron Vryheid and are now going to the Drakensburg mountains, so it should be an interesting story.

Jilly, Beth, etc. Right now in South Africa on Channel 33 they are showing the 2003 world’s strongest man competition that took place during our reunion at Vic Falls.

Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, November 24, 2004 at 17:54:14 (UTC)

Oh to be in Tytherington Now the SQIGGLY season is here,
(with or without tarpaulins), to the lurkers who only live a short car ride away get mobile Sat night I havent seen you for nearly 40 years they know who I mean. Johnny.

Johnny, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, November 24, 2004 at 16:31:55 (UTC)

Paul Cowie

My apologies - I was away when your photo came in so couldn't deal with it immediately. Since then, I have not been able to catch up with myself.

However, as I type, the photo is being transferred to the server and when I get home this evening, assuming we don't have a power cut as we have had the last two evenings, I shall prepare the links and post the message on the board.

Sorry again.

Heather Chalcraft, Zambia [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Wednesday, November 24, 2004 at 15:30:18 (UTC)

Very eloquent Viv.

John, see what the right words can do...

Sue Coughlan, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Wednesday, November 24, 2004 at 15:03:06 (UTC)

John Parish

Thank you so much for posting that poem – I still have a lump in my throat. My mom lived with me for 23 years after my dad died and the last few years of her life were often lonely and painful as she suffered with Arthritis and developed Parkinsons.

I was at work all day, my daughters at work, and school, and she only had company for a little while in the evenings when we were home. I hope in my preoccupation with my life and worries, I never did anything to make her feel that I didn’t SEE her.

She was a very lovely young Scotswomen, Lottie Griffiths, with a temper that did the Scots proud! She lived in Northern Rhodesia for a few years as a young child, returned to Scotland with her mom and brother and then after the second world war returned to Kitwe in her early twenties to meet and marry my dad, Viv Eldridge. There are, I am sure many “old timers” that will remember them both. They were a handsome and very happy young couple and sadly, like the lady in the poem, all too soon the years were gone and with them my dad and before she knew where she was, she was old, alone and far from the countries she loved, Scotland and Northern Rhodesia.

We were never close, my sister and I were always “daddy’s girls” and only now that she has gone do I realize how much I loved her and how quickly my life is mirroring her own.

Vivienne

Vivienne Jeannette Buitendag, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, November 24, 2004 at 14:40:39 (UTC)

Anna

Try this link for your tablet recipe

http://www.undiscoveredscotland.co.uk/usrecipes/scottishtablet/

I have to say that it sure looks as if it would rot your teeth though it's probably delicious. Hope your kids don't get too much of a liking for it or you could wind up having very big dentist bills!

Fiona Gayther, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, November 24, 2004 at 08:11:20 (UTC)

Help

Any old Scottish people out there with a recipe for Tablet??
My dad would often make it for us. I'm sure we kept the local dentist in business with the amount of sugar. I'd like to now show my kids how to make it but have lost the precious bit of paper.

Anna

Anna Crawford, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, November 24, 2004 at 05:58:52 (UTC)

Sarky Arthur,

Even a bamba zonke can name all of those school empblems, except the second last one. And you thought I wasn't paying attention.

I suspect that one of your former careers was working for the KGB retouching photographs, or was it the Ministry of Truth, Winston?

More information on Kimberly's boobs... er... I mean baobs, is on the Kimberley Development Commission Web site.

Craig Hartnett, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Wednesday, November 24, 2004 at 01:15:51 (UTC)

Northerners !

I see all the rebellious rabble from the wild dorpies have stuck their heads over the parapet while I've been away. And who said Kitwe was the Centre of the Universe? If you didn't live in Nkana-East you were just nobody.

I found these a few months ago, who can identify each school empblem?

No first-prizes for the Knappies in Nkana-West.

Ali

As I keep reminding Heather, you girls need to take along a spirit level and a spade on your travels when taking your cameras.

First, useful for stopping a lake pouring out one side of your photo, second, you will be able to dig up telegraph poles that get in the way of your subjects.

Like this

The spade also comes in quite useful for removing American and Dutch tourists you don't want in the frame - a whack on the head usually does the trick, failing that just throw them with a stone - just like the good old days. Heather uses a gun of course, but I s'pose that aint allowed in Oz.

Watch out for the flatdogs Ali - here's one Heather left me recently, made a nice wallet.

Paul Cowie

I think Heather has your photo of your car. Feel free to use the spade to hurry her along.

Tytherington Tarpaulines

Hope you all have a lekker time, so sorry I won't be able to join you all this year.

Please take plenty of pics.

Arthur

Arthur Steevens, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Wednesday, November 24, 2004 at 00:53:16 (UTC)

For the smilers you girls will like it. Johnny.

> > A man and his wife were having some problems at home and were giving
> > each other the silent treatment. Suddenly, the man realized that the
> > next day, he would need his wife to wake him at 5:00 AM for an early
> > morning business flight. Not wanting to be the first to break the
> > silence (and LOSE), he wrote on a piece of paper, "Please wake me at
> > 5:00 AM." He left it where he knew she would find it.
> >
> > The next morning, the man woke up, only to discover it was 9:00 AM
> > and he had missed his flight. Furious, he was about to go and see why
his
> > wife hadn't wakened him, when he noticed a piece of paper by the bed.
> > The paper said, "It is 5:00 AM. Wake up."
> >
> > Men are not equipped for these kinds of contests. God may have
> > created man before woman, but there is always a rough draft before the
> > masterpiece.

Johnny, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, November 23, 2004 at 23:22:16 (UTC)

Sorry, I should have noted that the subject of Ali's e-mail message to me was "Baobs of the Kimberly", so maybe these aren't in Broome.

Craig Hartnett, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Tuesday, November 23, 2004 at 22:57:18 (UTC)

Broome Baobs

Ali has asked me to post these pictures of Baobs in Broome. The sign in front of one of the trees reads:

"SITE OF SIGNIFICANCE

"The significance of the Prison Baob Tree derives from its reputed use as a rest point for police & escorted [sic] Aboriginal prisoners en-route to Derby, and principally, its prior but less publicly known connection with Aboriginal traditional religious belief.

"The Prison Baob Tree attracts many visitors. The fence was erected out of respect for the religious significance of the Prison Baob Tree and to prevent pedestrian traffic from compacting the soil around its roots.

"This site is protected under the Aboriginal Heritage Act 1972. Please be advised that unauthorised entry beyond the perimeter fence is prohibited.

"Note also that snakes are known to inhabit the tree."

In other words, if the law won't deter you from climbing the fence, perhaps the snakes will. :) And since when were prisoners transported without an escort? --Craig.

Arthur, please check my speling for misteaks. Thanks.

Craig Hartnett, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Tuesday, November 23, 2004 at 22:53:37 (UTC)

OK I'll bring my two person tent with me.Johnny.

Johnny, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, November 23, 2004 at 21:40:50 (UTC)

JOHNNY

Down boy!

Fiona Gayther, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, November 23, 2004 at 18:57:38 (UTC)

It would have been nice if we had the tarpaulins, just imagine a sudden burst of rain and forty of us all sqiggling sandwiched between two tarpaulins OH BOY. Johnny.

Johnny, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, November 23, 2004 at 18:21:49 (UTC)

Mike........................

Hi your absolutely right I may even know you, I used to go to Eagle's rest every weekend Chris never charged me a penny as long as I took food supplies and booze he always reminded my of Clark Gable.
Later on unfortunately he went a little bush and used to tell us about submarines he saw in the lake bless him.

When the Problems started (border clashes) Joe's and all the other hire companies went into liquidation Chris arranged through an insurance compny for me to purchase anything from Joe's including boats which I did including the Aluminium Yahcht which I think is the boat your refering to, I or no one else could raise her and as far as I know shes stll offf Eagles Rest 30-40' underwater..

Thanks for jogging my memory Mike... I still miss the place you know............

John Parish, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, November 23, 2004 at 18:19:06 (UTC)

Esther Pettersson

Thanks. The book will be published in the next few weeks, in of all places, in Zambia. I suspect the book is good because I had a 19 year old young woman finally read the type set copy here. I din't ask her for this and I wasn't looking for her comments. But she said she cried at the end of the book. I asked her why. She said she didn't know what was going to happen to them. I will keep you posted.

Mwizenge Tembo, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Tuesday, November 23, 2004 at 18:12:40 (UTC)

John Parish

Thanks for posting the poem, it really had a message. I sent a copy to my daughter, who works in a home for Alzheimer patients. She promises to share it, and that can do nothing but good. I would add that the care the patients receive is first class, but every little helps. Bob.

Robert Summers, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, November 23, 2004 at 17:44:37 (UTC)

Hi there 'nchanga'

I'm in the process of bidding on EBay for the 14" square 1946 map of Northern Rhodesia the only other bidder has the name 'nchanga'. I want the GNR archive to have the map. If 'nchanga' is a reader of this board maybe we could come to some agreement.

Mike Wilson, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, November 23, 2004 at 17:32:10 (UTC)

Patti,
Did Dave work for Frankie Pile,if so then did his brother Peter work for Duly`s,I new them both well if it is the same Bromfields,we were all Kantanta Street,Kids.

Pappy Papier, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, November 23, 2004 at 17:02:17 (UTC)

Hi there,

you're drawing me out of my shell again. If the 'Flame Lilly' was the sleek sailing boat build in the Copperbelt, I heard, she went bows under and went down.

Re Samfya, I went there in 1962. Photos I took, were on Perutz film and very much a brown cast. I did three trips for National Cas Register Company from Mansa (Fort Rosebery) along the Luapula to Lake Mwera and went to Kawambwa, Mporokoso, Kasama, Luwingu, back to Mansa, then to the Copperbelt.

The first trip I flew from Ndola to Fort Rosebery in th old Dak (they don't fly they trundle through the air). I was taken to the stores by the traders driver.

My second trip was in the Volkswagen Kombi NN5102, I wont forget, got my first drivers licence in it. My predecessor (apprentice) was dismissed for towing a 5 t truck with it and buggered it up.

Number three trip was in a new Peugeot Van. I did two miles along flooded road on tree trunks. The colour slides were borrowed by a person with the fervent promise of their return. They were found published and never returned, I had no recourse.

When I worked for Irvin & Johnson I also went via the Chembe ferry to Kasama en route to Mpulungu. My last crossing of Chembe was April 1966.

While with I & J I had the job of going into the Pedicle with Pound sterling 2,000 in cash in my pocket to buy back one of the big Leyland freezer trucks, loaded with fish from the fishery at Mpulungu, from a group of bandits.

On one trip to Mpulungu, I recaptured some of the Storms Water Cobras, in one of the Fisheries' Dept premises, where a big aquarium had burst.

In 1962 Mr Anderson, an Accountant, advertised for companions to climb Kilimanjaro. He and the Manager of Grindlays Bank Ndola, myself, Nick Solanki of Solanki & Sons/ or brothers of Ndola, a Surveyor/Geologist from Luanshya and another from Kalalushi. We all fitted into my Kombi, a reliable old 'Tub' with all of 1100 cc power. We had our moments on that trip too. I was at the wheel at the time, and from the top of the escarpment we saw a little stream, so I pushed for all she had and reached 60 mph, hit the river, ski'd across on her belly without the wheels touching the river bed.

Enough for time being.

Bryan

Bryan Baker, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, November 23, 2004 at 14:27:10 (UTC)

Patti Bromfield
Is your husband Dave, Pete Bromfields brother?
If so could you please give me Pete's address. Last time he visited me with his wife Heather they were living in England, but lost touch.
Welcome to the GNR.

Nicky Kontou, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, November 23, 2004 at 14:18:11 (UTC)

John Parish
Lovely poem. It shows deep down you are a good person with feelings. So no need to be crude just be yourself.
Cheers.

Nicky Kontou, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, November 23, 2004 at 13:58:38 (UTC)

Hi John,

Yes I remember Joe's Boat Hire. I had a boat taken from there which ended on the Southern shore. It was Eagle's Rest Chalets next door, with Chris Odendhal (Spelling?).
The view from Maurice Diamond's lounge at sunset was out of this world. Molly had a cottage lower on the same plot which I believe originally belonged to George Adamson.

Whatever happened to the 'Flame Lily'? I remember it sinking at its mooring. Was that the end of a very ambitious undertaking? There's a story which perhaps Ken Hill, if he is still alive, could tell

Mike Wilson, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, November 23, 2004 at 11:25:17 (UTC)

Jophn Parish

What a wonderful poem.

It reminds me a bit of when my sister Erika was in hospital in England not so long ago. The nurses came and went with barely a glance at her suffering.
After collapsing at home for no apparent reason she was taken into hospital and put on a ventilator and released after a week or so. It happened again and they released her - this time after saying she needed regular Dialysis. It happened again and they relased her. The neighbours found her unconcious and once again she was in hospital - this time so bad her husband suggested we fly to England to say our good byes. Whilst there I witnessed those bloody nurses come and go, come and go. I sat watching her take one small bite out of a piece of bread before the tray being taken away. I found the sister and told her - Erika is a person - not some THING that is going to die anyway. I told her that this lady is a beautiful human being who is loved by many and "this lady is going to starve to death on your shift without you even knowing or caring about it" - idiots.
Anyway to cut a long story short - they wanted to release her again alhough she couldn't walk - because the doctor said "we know she has a bug of some sort but can't find out what that bug is". Her husband took her to Switzerland where she continued having Dialysis - but when she wasn't responding favourably - they tested her further only to find that the "bug" was cancer which by now had spread from the source pancreas to her liver and kidneys - far too late for treatment - just ready for palliative care.
She had been in and out of hospital in England for 5 months. The two weeks we were there in the January she was moved FIVE times.
It makes you wonder, doesn't it???

Esther Pettersson, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, November 23, 2004 at 08:23:08 (UTC)

Mwizenge Tembo

You should write a book. I felt everything just reading your words.

Esther Pettersson, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, November 23, 2004 at 07:29:53 (UTC)

I was in Williamsburg that memorable weekend of the Fall in October. We parked the car on the lovely Winery Grounds surrounded by acres of grape plants and walked into the Italian festival grounds.

There was plenty of wine, art, crafts, drinks, bread, sausages, a thousand aromas from Bar-B-Que grills, and then the music under the tent. The woman who has satiated my life-long romantic dreams for the last twenty-five years was with me. It was a magical experience. When we finally sat under the huge tent to listen to the band, that’s when it happened.

The music, like an incendiary device, tagged at the chords of the romantic feelings that enveloped us. My soul yearned for the bygone mysterious distant past that is shrouded in a mist of desires and memories that make the heart ache with infinite sadness and joy. I realized then why people sometimes fall to their knees and choose to die for romantic love.

There was an instrument in the band that continuously wrung my heart, slashed open my deep romantic feelings, and desires that could only be consummated in the aura of my lover’s sacred presence, laughter, and teary smiles. The area in the tent around us glowed, as it was pregnant with the electricity of deep emotion. People were instinctively drawn to us. The experience has been etched in the deep crevices of my memory forever.

I want to see the Allodola Band again. I can’t tell whether I will be disappointed when I see them again. I am going to break a very important rule of life that I learnt many years ago: never try to recreate anything good that you experienced spontaneously once. The second time will never be the same. Please tell me where the Allodola band plays. I will go to see the band.

September 20, 2004.
I saw the band again. It was a saturday afternoon with clear blue skies. The excitement of the International festival; food, children’s games, displays, art and crafts, music, and people wearing colorful clothes mingling everywhere. This time I bought Ethiopian food and stood in front of the festival stage as the band performed.

Someone I knew came and stood close to me. They began to talk to me but my mind was already overwhelmed by the sweet music. This Allodola music that is mysterious in its power. Why does it go through my ears, to my gut, then to my chest where it arouses the dormant soul? During the third song, my chest is accumulating heat that threatens to burst the dam of powerful emotions that many men and women are terrified of. The band ends their music. I go to thank Connie and the group. I want to see Allodola again. But I am beginning to get scared. I don’t know why.

Mwizenge Tembo, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Tuesday, November 23, 2004 at 04:34:43 (UTC)

Hi Fiona,
To get your kitchen finished in time you must really stop chatting to strangers for hours on the net., Just now they will end up on your doorstep unnanounced.

Cheers

Philip Pain, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, November 23, 2004 at 04:30:08 (UTC)

Yesterday was the first anniversary of England's win over Australia in the 2003 Rugby World Cup Final. I went to a friend's place for a gathering of Poms to watch the game again courtesy of a DVD. Had a few beers and a magnificent home delivered curry. Result - the same again.

This coming Saturday it could be different.

Keith Binns, United Arab Emirates [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, November 23, 2004 at 02:14:41 (UTC)

Johnny

Like I've got time to organise tarpaulins? Who do you want to crawl under them with? Anyway, you only need a couple of minutes to crawl home to bed (if you can do it in a straight line - otherwise maybe a couple of hours?)

Fiona Gayther, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, November 22, 2004 at 23:29:24 (UTC)

Jack/Mike F
In ‘ Men of Men’ page 507 Wilbur Smith is even more precise. He describes the cave overlooking the Zambezi escarpment and also close enough to the Victoria Falls for the spray to be seen against the western sky.

Mike Slement, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, November 22, 2004 at 22:55:29 (UTC)

12 seems a little early doesn't it? get a couple of tarpaulins on the lawn we can crawl between in emergency's Johnny.

Johnny, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, November 22, 2004 at 21:50:05 (UTC)

Mike Fancourt,

Wilbur Smith seems to align with the traditional view based on his reference to Gandang's description of Lobengula's death in "the Angels Weep" p59 in the PAN paperback.

I.e. the poison taken in a cave overlooking the Zambezi valley.

Jack Wardell, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, November 22, 2004 at 21:10:27 (UTC)

Reference the comments about the death of some great hero in Africa. If there was a "grave" investigation it would have been recorded in the District Notebook held at the local Boma. Just before independence these were all removed for safekeeping to the National Archives. They made fascinating reading. At Mpika the one there had an account from, I think the early twenties, of interviews and photos of an old man who as a child remembered Livingstone's arrival and demise.

Edward Collard, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, November 22, 2004 at 20:10:51 (UTC)

LINDA HAYES

Please contact me, I need to speak to you. Hope your meeting is/was good.

Fiona Gayther, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, November 22, 2004 at 19:06:23 (UTC)

Jilly
I promise no more rugby forecasts! The thought of you with Heather's whip is just about as frightening as Linda with BT's 2 by 4. Are all Kitwe buns so rough? :-)

Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, November 22, 2004 at 18:51:49 (UTC)

My Mother stays in a home the following was on the wall in her rest room, Apparently an old woman wrote it who suffered from alzheimers . it was found after she died

What do you see, nurse, what do you see?
What are you thinking when you're looking at me?
A crabby old woman, not very wise,
Uncertain of habit, with far away eyes.

Who dribbles her food and makes no reply
When you say in a loud voice, "I do wish you'd try?"
Who seems not to notice the things that you do,
And forever is losing a stocking or shoe.

Who, resisting or not, lets you do as you will.
With bathing and feeding, the long day to fill,
Is that what you're thinking? Is that what you see?
Then open your eyes, nurse, you're not looking at me.

I'll tell you who I am as I sit here so still,
As I use at your bidding, as I eat at your will.
I'm a small child of ten with a father and mother,
Brothers and sisters, who love one another.

A young girl of sixteen, with wings on her feet,
Dreaming that soon now a lover she'll meet.
A bride soon at twenty, my heart gives a leap,
Remembering the vows that I promised to keep.

At twenty-five now, I have young of my own,
Who need me to guide, and a secure happy home.
A woman of thirty, my young now grown fast,
Bound to each other with ties that should last.

At forty my young sons have grown and are gone,
But my man's beside me to see I don't mourn.
At fifty once more babies play around my knee,
Again we know children, my loved one and me.

Dark days are upon me, my husband is dead,
I look at the future, I shudder with dread.
For my young are all rearing young of their own,
And I think of the years and the love that I've known.

I'm now an old woman and nature is cruel,
'Tis just to make old age look like a fool.
The body, it crumbles, grace and vigor depart,
There is now a stone where I once had a heart.

But inside this old carcass a young girl still dwells,
And now and again my battered heart swells.
I remember the joys, I remember the pain,
And I'm loving and living life over again.

I think of the years, all too few, gone too fast,
And accept the stark fact that nothing can last.
So open your eyes, nurses, open and see,
Not a crabby old woman, look closer - see ME!!

Remember this poem when you next meet an old person.

We will one day be there too! Love bears all things,

believes all things, hopes all things and endures all things.

I LOVE YOU Mum xxXXxx

John Parish, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, November 22, 2004 at 18:43:04 (UTC)

TYTHERINGTON TIYENDE ATTENDEES

Diane Sewley has kindly arranged a 16 seater taxi for anyone who needs a lift back to their accommodation on Saturday night. She has booked it for midnight but if anyone thinks that's too early, please let me know SOON so we can change it. If travellers can split the cost of the taxi it will work out at a reasonable price and revellers can still have a drink without worrying about driving. Please let me know who will need to use the taxi and where you're staying so I can work it out. Thanks.

Fiona Gayther, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, November 22, 2004 at 18:36:00 (UTC)

Hi Carol

Sorry you can't make it to the Tiyende but here's wishing you well in your new life in Spain and a happy retirement. I hope we will be able to meet up again one day - it's not that far away! Where in Spain are you moving to?

Fiona Gayther, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, November 22, 2004 at 14:38:29 (UTC)

Hi all
Firstly, to all you jammy dodgers going to the Tytherington bash - have a great time and I'm sorry I won't be there to have a farewell drink with you. Can I take this opportunity to wish you all health, wealth and happiness for the future.
Our move to Spain is now imminent, my car goes on Friday, the furniture has gone, and we are living like jolly campers, sleeping on airbeds and cooking from a primus stove! Ah memories of weekends in the bush, (but with a bathroom available) !!
I retire on Friday this week - yippee - although I am actually starting to dread it, having worked since I was 17 without any time out. So if any of you have my works email address, containing carole@miller....., please delete it from your address book.
I have also changed my home email address from the one starting buz@evans22...... so again please delete that. Contact me via ths posting for the new one.
We won't be able to connect to the internet for a while once we move as the area we are going to has no landline telephones yet, so please bear with us. We are hoping to get a radio phone about February/March which has internet facility (so I've been told) so will catch up with you all then.
My love and best wishes to all my old friends. Go well and stay safe.

Carole Evans, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, November 22, 2004 at 12:35:57 (UTC)

Ali

Thrilled to pieces as always at your enthusiasm, descriptions and explorations. Dying to see some of those photos and hearing more reports.

Feef (For those going: "Feef???" This is fiona Gayther aka Fifi la Gayther aka Feef)

So glad you "enjoyed" my historical account. Thanks for the warning babe. I'll hold on to your duty-free B&H's til I feel safe...

Tina Magee, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, November 22, 2004 at 09:41:38 (UTC)

Dear Ali I have never seen a dripping tree but my mam used to fill me full of bread and dripping sandwiches in the 30s is that where it came from Aussie.? Love Johnny.x

Johnny, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, November 22, 2004 at 09:38:04 (UTC)

Ali,
Will you be doing the Gibb Livingstone Road - or visiting the Bungle Bungles whilst you are up there in the far north ?
The early pirate explorer William Dampier who sailed round the world three times first landed somwhere up there long before Cook's voyage of discovery with the botanist Banks. Dampier's accurate maps and descriptions of all the plants and wildlife are still used to this day. A new book on his life by Diana & Michael Preston titled Á Pirate of Exquisite mind' is a very good read - I even get a mention - for giving them minimal information on his visit to the South China Coast St John's island near Macau.
Watch out for the sharp Spinefex grass up there - it really is needle sharp.
Enjoy the rest of your trip
Ron

Ron Clibborn-Dyer, China [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, November 22, 2004 at 09:08:57 (UTC)

Hi Simon a coincidence in that I was at Lwawu Mission on tuesday last week. I stayed with Brother Joe ( if you remeber him) and he was quite keen to know what happened to pupils from St Frances. I only knew of Tony Edwards and Richard Borejszo.
I have his box number and a photo which I can send to you if interested.

Gerard Fagan, Zambia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, November 22, 2004 at 06:08:28 (UTC)

>STRONG> Hi All....Jilly and Tina etc
Baobs....love to say I think I have seen more of them in the last 3 days than one can see in a life time..even one that "was" used as a Gaol !!...I will be sending a few pics to Craig to be posted ;0)
I am having a wonderful time, arrived Friday afternoon after a 3 hour delay.........the weather very humid and the high 30's, very tropical here and so green.......have had a ball recognising the local flora, loads of Baobs , coconut palms, Mango trees dripping, and of course my favourite the poinciana..in flower !!!...have managed to collect a wide range of seed pods, of course the poinciana's Pod is the best..the local beaches are incredibly beautiful white sand everywhere and blue blue sea......oh and just across from us a few thousand miles is Africa......have spent most of the time 4w driving , yesterday we ended up at the end of the world........(well it seemed like it ) a sleepy little hollow called Derby (pronounced as in her !!) phenomenal , a port town very small, but the jetty is quite big, oh but the view of the sea was unbeleivable , a dirty brown......a huge expanse of water, and urgh, quite an eirrie feeling ...never saw any crocs, not many around, but plenty of signs to day BEWARE, I think the only place I am going to get to see them is at the Croc park..whilst in Derby came across an injured Swallow, so took it back to Broome to the wildlife carer there.....hopefully it will recover...........
Today I hired a bike and so will hopefully be able to lose weight while riding around in this steam bath of a place.
Not long to go Tina and Linda, I will be thinking of you !!
oh lots of fishing spots here, hopefully I will catch a few..giggles.....oh well must leave this airconditioned haven and ride back to the little place I am staying at.
Ali in Broome....

Ali Key, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, November 22, 2004 at 03:54:08 (UTC)

Looking for Picture of the Empblem on the Mufulira Rugby Jersey

The following message is posted on behalf of non-member Bill McDonald. Please contact him directly as described below if you can help him. Thanks.

I've had some requests for Mufulira rugby jerseys. I'm seeking a picture of the emblem on the jersey.

Bill McDonald of Rhodesia was Super.

If you can help Bill, please contact him directly at rhodesia@shaw.ca. Thanks very much.

Craig Hartnett, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Sunday, November 21, 2004 at 23:50:22 (UTC)

Ha ha! Funny Tina! I'll slap you for that one next week!

Update on the Tiyende

The beer is bought, the steak is bought, the boerie is ordered, the nerves are shattered (sorry Mr Hogg and Mr Maxwell for the bollockings). My kitchen is still in the midst of being remodelled and I have spent all day trying to find somewhere to put everthing, changed my mind about what needs to be done and the builder will probably punch my lights out tomorrow when I tell him. I apologise in advance to attendees if it's not completed by the weekend. Going to bed with a pill now. Good night!

Fiona Gayther, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 21, 2004 at 23:33:26 (UTC)

Anyone considered asking Wilbur Smith where Lobengula is buried?

Mike Fancourt, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 21, 2004 at 20:39:31 (UTC)

Ancient African Proverbs

Many do not know that proverbs in use today were started on the African plains in the mists of time. Once upon a time a lion was fed up. He was exhausted by the terrible effort of watching his girls repeatedly fail to catch a few "meals-on-heels", He decided to give them a pep talk.

"Listen ladies" he began, "when you chase nyama you catch it". He scratched a cross in the ground in front of him with a well manicured claw and roared: "I'm your leader and I say: the buck stops HERE!" He then gloomily reviewed the remains of a young puku antelope that the girls had chased a hyena away from and gave a gusty sigh. "Oh well", he said, "half a 'lope is better than none."

Tina Magee, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 21, 2004 at 18:56:00 (UTC)

Doug,

I have warned you before about making predictions - I shall have to borrow Heather's whip just now! Please lie low until After the Grand Sham Tour!

I am so sorry about Kalusha Bwalya's come-back being marred by missing the goal in penalty shoot-outs at Independece Stadium - Kalusha - you are still a great soccer player!

John Parish - your weak jokes are offensive, not funny and stop making apologies - contribute something of value.

Linda - have you seen a certain person yet? I can't wait to hear from you! I am holding your hand from here, China!

Ali - how are the Boabs in your part of the world?

Ron - I have seeds for the violet tree - want some??

Jilly

Jill Aplin, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 21, 2004 at 18:55:08 (UTC)

A bit more Lobengula: The regular story puts his death near Kamativi in northern Matebeleland but this has been challenged with ...

"Lobengula's death in 1893 greatly exaggerated"

HARARE - Lobengula, the last King of the Matabele nation, died in 1922 near Fort Jameson in far eastern Zambia near the border with Malawi and not in 1894 in the Gwaai River area near Kamativi, Professor RS Roberts asserts in soon to be published material.

More details for the interested are on

http://m1.mny.co.za/zmfa.nsf/0/C2256D6A003BCD42C2256DFF005E6C8C?OpenDocument

Jack Wardell, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 21, 2004 at 18:15:23 (UTC)

Lobengula

Best I can find is in

http://www.chirundu.com/history/shanganipatrol.htm

Extract suggests his grave is 40miles south of the Zambezi

The night before this fateful day of December 4, 1893, Lobengula, accompanied by three of his sons, some of his wives and a few faithful indunas, including Mjaan, lumbered northwards in his wagon. He no longer feared pursuit, but he was a broken man, sick in body and soul, and with his kingdom destroyed he had no will to live. They got to within forty miles of the Zambezi, and there they ran into a belt of tsetse fly. The oxen perished and in that inhospitable country they were stranded. Lobengula died towards the end of January, and the evidence found on his grave site when it was officially discovered and examined in 1946 suggests that he took poison.

So his grave was discovered in 1946 - someone must know where it is!

Jack Wardell, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 21, 2004 at 17:52:30 (UTC)

Anyone remember Joe's boat hire at Lake Kariba or Chris who ran the lodge nearby not forgetting millionaires Morris Diamond & Basil of Zambia Gemstones around 1970 - 1980

John Parish, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 21, 2004 at 17:33:52 (UTC)

Heather
Thanks a lot! Much appreciated. Philip, take note.

Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 21, 2004 at 17:02:44 (UTC)

Doug

First of all, I have been very tardy in getting accommodation prices etc. I can only blame it on my current workload which doesn't look like it is going to abate until just before Christmas. However, I am planning on getting all the rates finalised this coming weekend, providing I can tie one of the operators to his chair for a few minutes - I was on the phone to him this afternoon and warned him to expect this. I did not, however, mention my whip which I will use if necessary !!

Also, I have decided that the reunion is going to be at Sinazongwe rather than Siavonga - there is just more on offer there and I think it will prove to be a much better venue than Siavonga.

Yes, the Congo pedicle road is open through Mufulira although I have not ever done that trip, but know plenty who have and all without incident. Kevin will be able to update you on the latest on that front.

I have not done the Mansa / Samfya /Serenje road for two years, but at that time, I only found one pothole in an immaculate tar road.

Yes, it is possible to get through to the SLNP from Serenje side. I have all the GPS readings for the route. The only thing is that the rivers might still be a little high in June so will have to take advice from others on that front. And yes, the return journey would be via the Great East Road.

May I suggest that the KZN team contact me with what they are planning, where they want to stay etc and I will help them with recommendations/bookings for accommodation etc.

Heather Chalcraft, Zambia [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Sunday, November 21, 2004 at 16:45:12 (UTC)

Kevin and Heather
Kindly update us on the latest news about the Kariba reunion. Some of our KwaZulu Natal team are planning quite an expedition and some queries have arisen.

Is the Congo pedicle road through Mufulira to Mansa still open and is it safe to travel that way.

What is the condition of the road from Mansa through Samfya connecting to the GNR just north of Serenje?

I see on the maps that there are roads from just north of that junction, going eastwards towards the South Luangwa National Park. Is it possible to get to the SLNP from Serenje side? The park is on the west of the river and there are ferries across, so then the return journey could be along the Great East Road to Lusaka.

Johnny
Grrrr!

Cheers - Doug

Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 21, 2004 at 13:44:24 (UTC)

Doug and Jilly, I heard a rumour that the Scots were going to play a few old men from the blind school as Backs to give them a treat they say it wont make any difference to the result.

Johnny, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 21, 2004 at 11:34:43 (UTC)

Sorry I am going to miss you too Fiona. I have limited access to the Internet and thought I would catch everyone by posting a message. Consider me publicly chastised and have a great time anyway.

Alan Hogg, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Sunday, November 21, 2004 at 08:36:06 (UTC)

Anna Crawford: Thank you for your kind offer, but the name Ken Bentham rings no bells. I think he must have been somewhere other than Ndola/1954. On my program are some names that ring faint bells...Produced by Cyril Baker...thanks to Elsie Fraser-Munn. Mrs P.C. Goodlet. Frank Sutcliffe. But to tell the truth, all this is 50 years ago and my memories are very faded. I left NR in 1956 and left Africa alltogether in 1965 and so much has happened to me since then that I seldom think about those far-off days. I only discovered the site because I put a name into Google and his registration page from GNR jumped up onscreen. Does everyone know about this ? I assume it must be true for everyone who is a member? But now that I am a member, I shall keep an eye on you all - who knows what may leap out of the past !! By the way, I was a part-time usher at the Rhokana Mine cinema during 1956, so anyone who can remember being shown to their seats probably has met me !! In fact, I am still owed 10 shillings for a night we had a live show there - Ann Ziegler and Webster Booth who left town without paying the help !! Happy Days.

Anthony Holt, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 21, 2004 at 06:11:02 (UTC)

Hi there,
One and all.
I seem to recall trying this out once before and receiving a great deal of info, but seemed to have misplaced the info I received.
Thank god for computers and modern technology.
St FRANCIS COLLEGE - 40 years on!!!!!!!!
Anybody out there have any information on the following INMATES OF - ST FRANCIS COLLEGE - KITWE, scattered around the world.

John Dorrington
Kenneth Woodley - Canadian
Robert Wentzel
Alan Davidson - Malawi
Graham Warner
John Froneman
Stan Grondas
John Manayas
Neville Beresford
Tony Alexander

Sorry Alzheimers sets in when you cannot remember names.
Just to name a few from that era.
and of course any others that you may know who were incerated in this place in the bush.
I look forward to hearing from anybody.
cheers
Simon

Simon Penstone, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 21, 2004 at 05:31:58 (UTC)

I wish to add my name to the growing list of members who have expressed their dismay at the inclusion of postings in poor taste on this message board.

This is clearly not the right place for them.

Keep the bar room humour to the bar room please.

Ron

Ron Clibborn-Dyer, China [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 21, 2004 at 00:18:56 (UTC)

Northerners...

Some interesting Northern Rhodesia items on e-bay. Take a peek...

A 1948 Northern Rhodesia map

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=37959&item=3763033912&rd=1

Rhodesia Railways leave application:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=263&item=5537113064&rd=1

and

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=263&item=5537126208&rd=1

A most unusual item:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=29434&item=7114709750&rd=1

and again

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=29434&item=7114939605&rd=1

And lastly...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=26265&item=8147904232&rd=1

Peter Dielissen, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, November 20, 2004 at 23:00:15 (UTC)

Alan

Would have been nice to have heard from you that you weren't coming before you posted it on the GNR.

Fiona Gayther, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, November 20, 2004 at 22:51:32 (UTC)

Sorry I am not going to make it to the Tiende Linda. I've been looking forward to a bit of a bust out and it would have been fantastic catching up. Pappy seems to be the only Scottish representative but I'm sure he'll make up for George and I. Flying back from Egypt the same day as the bash would you believe!!
Have one for me, maybe catch up in Houston next month.

Alan Hogg, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Saturday, November 20, 2004 at 20:49:56 (UTC)

Sorry for the nasty spell - nyanja -

Tina Magee, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, November 20, 2004 at 19:51:10 (UTC)

Ken I relate in that I am less njanga challenged than bemba challeged ;-)

Tina Magee, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, November 20, 2004 at 19:49:48 (UTC)

Sue

Wish you could come to the Tiyende too and catch up with you and Paudie in person. In fact ...wow, what an incredible fantasy .... imagine being able to have an event over several days where you could meet EVERYBODY here!!!!!!! It would be incredible. You'd feel like a desert dog in a forest wouldn't you? Utterly content and completely spoiled for choice.

Tina Magee, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, November 20, 2004 at 19:48:56 (UTC)

Doug
I don't know what you mean..... dream become a nightmare? Not over here it wasn't. 32-16 is a bit of a thrashing.
I was at ABSA stadium in Durban to see the Boks beat Australia at the end of August, and it was fantastic, but England at Twickenham are a different proposition altogether. Off to Murrayfield next week to see if the Boks can beat the Jocks. Should be a good game between two closely matched teams.

Neil Smith, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, November 20, 2004 at 19:30:11 (UTC)

Philip
You asked ‘ Was Lobengula buried in Zambia and if so where.’
-------------------------

No one knows where he was buried but in my opinion a number of factors make the above unlikely to be true
The Zambezi is roughly 200-250 miles away from the Shangaan.This would be a very long and painful journey for a dying man .At best he would be travelling in an uncomfortable ox wagon through thick bush and on unmade tracks The journey would also have been made worse by heavy rainfall that season with the distinct possibility that the Zambezi was in full flow and impassable.
One also assumes that the king told his men where he wanted to be buried and one wonders why he would choose somewhere so far from home

Mike Slement, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, November 20, 2004 at 19:07:20 (UTC)

Mwizenge: HELP!! I won't be able to sleep tonight.

Ken Fernie, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, November 20, 2004 at 18:45:52 (UTC)

I join the ranks of the prudish folk who belong to this site as I find little humour in John Parish's funnies.

Happy Thanksgiving to all American GNR members who will be celebrating this coming Thursday!

Helen D'Cruz, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, November 20, 2004 at 18:44:31 (UTC)

Ken
I think you mean Mwashibukeni Mukwai.

Tsalani bwino bambo.

Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, November 20, 2004 at 18:18:29 (UTC)

Tina: "Mwapoleni Mukwai" really should read:
"Mwashukeni Mukwai". I'm a bit Cibemba challenged,
Chinyanja was my forte. Surprised Mwizenge didn't correct me!

Ken Fernie, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, November 20, 2004 at 18:08:14 (UTC)

Bob Blackmore and Dave Caville I think were members of the boxing club in Kitwe 1970-81

John Parish, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, November 20, 2004 at 17:12:37 (UTC)

The dream has become a nightmare! England 36 Boks 18. I would like to see the game replayed on dry ground.
Hodgson was definately man of the match. Boks are going to have to do better than this.

Ian
Thanks for the links and congrats on your newly discovered skills.

Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, November 20, 2004 at 16:22:17 (UTC)

I enjoy a dirty joke as well as the majority of people, at the right time and place. This Board is neither.

Maybe it wouldn't matter if an occasional "joke" was included that tickled the funny bone instead of the "head-shaking" reaction Johnny's postings create.

One good thing to come out of them is when I am transported back to my teenage high school days of puberty when they were first heard and snickered at, 100 years ago.

Maybe a posting that starts with a warning and ends with an apology says more about the poster than the "joke".

To end on a warmer note, a Happy Thanksgiving to all the Roadies living in the States. Bob.

Robert Summers, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, November 20, 2004 at 15:31:36 (UTC)

Well I'll be....

Ian Singer, Scotland [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Saturday, November 20, 2004 at 14:46:25 (UTC)

Doug

My attempt at a live link relating to my recent message!

http://nrzam.org.uk/NRJ/V1N2/V1N2.htm

http://nrzam.org.uk/NRJ/V5N4/V5N4.html

Craig, I have little doubt this is going to make a mess so, to save pasting another message, I'll say sorry now!

Regards Ian

Ian Singer, Scotland [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Saturday, November 20, 2004 at 14:45:27 (UTC)

Doug

The second of these articles deals with the once real possibility of swapping the Pedicle - cut to the last page to find that WW1 put the matter on the back burner.

Lake Mweru
NRJ Volume 1 Number 2
http://nrzam.org.uk/NRJ/V1N2/V1N2.htm

Anglo-Belgian Boundary Commision Pre WW1
Article by Sir S.G.B.
NRJ Volume 5 Number 4
http://nrzam.org.uk/NRJ/V5N4/V5N4.html

Regards Ian

Ian Singer, Scotland [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Saturday, November 20, 2004 at 14:32:04 (UTC)

I find some entries on this board a waste of space! - know what I mean John.

Doug
In your dreams!

Chris Cantrell, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, November 20, 2004 at 14:24:45 (UTC)

Murundu is not the centre of the universe! It could have been if the British did not let the belgians have Katanga.

Ian Singer
Wasn't there an offer at one stage by the Belgians to give Katanga to NR in exchange for Lake Mweru with its rich fish supplies? Must have been before the copper was found.

Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, November 20, 2004 at 14:17:50 (UTC)

I have beennoffline for 2 days due to a Telkom fault. Peace in the valley for a change?

Marion Chisamba
Nice to hear from you after a long time.When we were young we used to color egg shells by putting onion skins (yellow) or beetroot skins (red) into the water where eggs were boiling.

Mwizenge
As you say that string making system is not for people with hairy legs. It is very eina when the hair gets pulled out in chunks.

Jilly and Johnny
Boks are going to thrash England this afternoon. The English team will think they have a walkover after last weeks fiasco in Ireland, and may just be too relaxed.

Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, November 20, 2004 at 13:57:08 (UTC)

John Parish

The end of your message infers that only a few prudes on this board find your grubby jokes distasteful. I would like to indicate my solidarity with the prudes.

And please, other posters, if the cap fits, wear it.

Ian Singer

Ian Singer, Scotland [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Saturday, November 20, 2004 at 13:52:09 (UTC)

Peter D

And here is a picture, taken by myself last year in August, of Broken Hill Man.

It was just another one of those 'things' that I decided I needed to do - to be the only person in Zambia who has seen him, but it was quite an emotional experience seeing him in the 'flesh'

Heather Chalcraft, Zambia [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Saturday, November 20, 2004 at 12:50:23 (UTC)

Northerners....

Let us settle this "Centre of the universe" issue once and for all!!!

Broken Hill existed 300,000 years ago long before Christ was a cowboy, Kitwe, Ndola, Muf and Lusaka.

Not only that, Broken Hill men were always good looking too - see here:

http://www.modernhumanorigins.com/brokenhill1.html

There are always disbelievers.... Here is a very interesting article - but totally untrue - about the skull being a modern one with a bullet hole in the head.

http://www.jackcuozzo.com/brokenhill.html

I hope this settles the "Centre of the universe" issue once and for all!!!!!!!

Peter Dielissen, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, November 20, 2004 at 12:11:29 (UTC)

Please Dont Read if your easily offended.............

A husband said to his wife, "No, I don't hate your relatives. In fact, I like your mother-in-law better than I like mine."

A man said his credit card was stolen but he decided not to report it since the thief was spending much less than his wife did.

man was complaining to a friend: "I had it all - money, a beautiful house, a big car, the love of a beautiful woman - and then, BAM!, it was all gone!" "What happened?" asked his friend. "My wife found out..."

....................................................................................................................................................................................
First Guy (proudly): "My wife's an angel!" Second Guy: "You're lucky, mine's still alive."

I married Miss Right. I just didn't know her first name was Always.

Dave works hard at the plant and spends most evenings bowling or playing basketball at the gym. His wife thinks he is pushing himself too hard, so for his birthday she takes him to a local strip club. The doorman at the club greets them and says, "Hey, Dave, how ya doin?" His wife is puzzled and asks if he's been to this club before. "Oh no," says Dave. "He's on my bowling team." When they are seated, a waitress asks Dave if he'd like his usual Budweiser. His wife is becoming uncomfortable and says, "You must come here a lot for that woman to know you drink Budweiser". "No, honey, she's in the Ladies Bowling League. We share lanes with them." A stripper comes over to their table and throws her arms around Dave. "Hi Davey," she says, "Want your usual table dance?"
Dave's wife, now furious, grabs her purse and storms out of the club. Dave follows and spots her getting into a cab. Before she can slam the door, he jumps in beside her and she starts screaming at him. The cabby turns his head and says, "Looks like you picked up a real bitch tonight, Dave."

Apologies to the usual members who find the above offensive. Have a grat weekend

John Parish, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, November 20, 2004 at 07:30:43 (UTC)

Hi All

I am reading a book called Bayete! "Hail to the King" which I found in my private book store.
The book was written by G. Heaton Nicholls and published in 1923.

In the opening chapter of the book he tells of King Lobengula being fatally wounded by a stray bullet during the last charge on Wilson's heroic column at the battle of Shangane in Southern Rhodesia. He states that the king watched the fight from a safe distance and left it up to his Indunas.

The King's doctor's probings to try and remove the bullet only aggravated the wound and it was plain that the King's days were numbered.

This is where it gets interesting as the author states the following:- "Therefore the remnant of the Matabele nation abandoned their wagons and made haste to get their King across the Zambezi. At the foot of Kodje mountain the King breathed his last."

Within the *scherm, decked in his chieftain's necklace and armshells, and wrapped in a large ox-hide which hardened around him to the stiffness of leather the King sat in state.

What I would like to know........
(1) Was Lobengula buried in Zambia and if so where.
(2) Where is Kodje Mountain that is referred to in the book?

*Scherm: An enclosure made of boughs, or of thorn bush, to keep off wild animals. Sometimes a shelter of boughs and leaves under which to sleep.

Cheers

Philip Pain, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, November 20, 2004 at 05:07:56 (UTC)

Bobby Gillies

Great to hear you'll catch up with Pappy in person. Be prepared to just slot into your youth again. Pappy hasn't changed - we've got video of him and Chris bopping along with the band at Banbury... just like 30 years ago! Make sure you lubricate your throat well (scotch 'n coke?) for all the yakking you'll do - the nostalgia - the laughter... great fun!

Tina, Linda and all the Tytherington Travellers: Bon Voyage!

Sue Coughlan, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Saturday, November 20, 2004 at 00:51:34 (UTC)

Ray

Interesting input. So does anyone else know what has happened to John Dunbar or daughter Barbara since then? Imagine being able to get them on the GNR.

Ken

Fantastic! Thanks to you we've now got the whole chorus!

Now, can anyone remember anything of the verses?

Ayub

Please congratulate your brother Ali on his breakthrough.

Only a week to the Tiyende!!!!!!!

Tina Magee, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, November 20, 2004 at 00:15:14 (UTC)

Ken/Barry/Johnny/et al

Yes indeed, both Vamp and Warlock were really good home-made productions. I'd forgotten that you produced Vamp, Barry, although I shouldn't have done so as I played minor roles in both.

The dramatic end to Peace in Our Time with the flashing lights, horrendous warlike noises, screaming planes etc, followed by the wail of the air-raid sirens, and the anti climax of the Air-Raid Warden scampering down the theatre stairs from the back of the auditorium shouting "All clear, all clear", was my main claim to fame. Mind you I think perhaps the setting had something to do with it rather than my acting ability as the Air-Raid Warden. After all, the theatre was in total darkness at the time!!!

Great times. Wonderful memories.

Ray Wright, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, November 19, 2004 at 23:30:10 (UTC)

Tactless Humour

Speaking as just another member, I would have to second Tina and Ali's comment on and requests of John Parish. There is a time and a place for that sort of humour, and I don't think that the GNR is the place.

Craig Hartnett, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Friday, November 19, 2004 at 22:12:53 (UTC)

Looking for information on the Hinds family

The following message is posted on behalf of non-member Anya Stock. Please contact her directly as described below if you can help her. Thanks.

I am researching my family tree and have discovered my grandfather, James William Hinds, was a commissioner at the Magistrates Office, First(?) Rosebery, Northern Rhodesia in 1934. He had lived in Northern Rhodesia for some years before this as his son Stuart William Hinds was born here in 1915. The family also had a daughter, Maureen, but I do not have a date of birth. Stuart was sent to school in Canterbury, England in 1929. James Hinds left Northern Rhodesia sometime after 1934 moving to Cape Town, South Africa (probably still as a civil servant) and had retired by 1939. Does anyone remember the family? Any information, including photographs would be much appreciated. Please contact me at anya.stock@ntlworld.com.

Thank-you.

Anya Stock

If you can help Anya, please contact her directly at anya.stock@ntlworld.com. Thanks very much.

Note from Craig: "First" Rosebery is probably meant to be Fort Rosebery, and the reference to Stuart William Hinds being born "here" presumably refers to Northern Rhodesia or perhaps specifically Fort Rosebery.

Craig Hartnett, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Friday, November 19, 2004 at 22:03:35 (UTC)

Barry, Warlock was the only show I saw in Kitwe and my wife and I were cajoled into going by a young man who worked for a firm of architecs in Kitwe and I think was involved in the production what a great show that was and as you say the Peace in our time chapter was excellent with Chamberlain stepping out of his plane waving his piece of paper I have never forgot that scene, I don't suppose you coul'd identify the the young man for me I would like to talk with him today. Johnny.

Johnny, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, November 19, 2004 at 20:59:11 (UTC)

Ayub, unfortunately the problem isn't with the children it's with the parents. A continent full of 5 yr old orphans is no fun.

Tim Fulcher, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, November 19, 2004 at 19:25:08 (UTC)

I stand corrected one more time! What's that wife of mine feeding me? After 41 years you'd think I was used to it by now. Thanks for the corrigenda, Barry.

Ken Fernie, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, November 19, 2004 at 16:22:50 (UTC)

Pappy, Can you e mail your phone number for me. I am going to try and make Glasgow as my cuz is there. Between 6th & 9th Dec with hope,

Bob Gillies, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, November 19, 2004 at 16:13:00 (UTC)

Ken

Oh dear, I think our memories are fading ......

"Vamp!" (February 1975) was written by Adrian Nash and the late Mike Glover, and produced by yours truly. I'm pretty certain that John Dunbar had left Kitwe by that time.

The follow-up to "Vamp!" was "Warlock", (March 1976), again by Adrian and Mike.

And yes, "Peace In Our Time" with the air raid was the show-stopping climax to Act 1.

Barry Woodrow, Iceland [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, November 19, 2004 at 16:09:13 (UTC)

Twisted Words:
In my Lusaka home,
In my Lusaka home,
They don't have a barbecue, they call it a Braii,
They don't say "Good Morning" it's "Mwapoleni Mukwai",
The dogs all called "Voetsaak", I'll never know why,
In my Lusaka home.
BTW: John Parish was never the Lusaka comedian - that was my title! My one-man show of Rex Tarrs" The Exodus" and "Yena lo Golf" in Chilapalapa, was always a favorite at our Member's Evenings at LTC.
Remember Chris Charalambides well, we worked together at Fairway in Kitwe. The name of the group "The Gentle People" was taken from a play of the same name which we later did at LTC - yours truly played the lead, Jonah Goodman.
Thought you'd just like to know.

Ken Fernie, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, November 19, 2004 at 15:51:26 (UTC)

Ray: I think one of John Dunbar's best creations was "VAMP". An excellent show and extremely well presented. He said I paid him one of the best compliments he had ever received when I asked him if he had taken out the copyright."Peace in our time", was really a show-stopper.

Ken Fernie, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, November 19, 2004 at 14:43:58 (UTC)

UCL/Zambia Medical Research Centre...GOOD NEWS!

A number of you will be aware from the news reports this morning that the Lusaka-based research Centre (there is a link to its website on this board) has made a substantial breakthrough in reducing the cost of treating HIV patients and will more than likely lead to halving the death rates among HIV-infected children. The centre's director is Prof Ali Zumla (currently head of infectious diseases at University College hospital, London) who has dedicated a lot of time and effort into making sure that it is managed effectively and effeciently.

Ayub Ismail Zumla, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, November 19, 2004 at 13:18:57 (UTC)

Mwizenge

you're right, under (Bisa, Lambya-fungwe) it is muombo and under (Kunda) it is Chiombo according to Pulgrave;

Brachystegia longifolia is also known as muombo,D. B. Fanshawe, 1962 (and that book did cost me 7s. 6d.)

Gave up icecream for a whole month already to save up for our trip in June 2005.

Bryan

Bryan Baker, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, November 19, 2004 at 12:37:18 (UTC)

Tina,

The words missing from the song are "new Kitwe", as in: " In my new kitwe home" etc, although the words of the missing line escape me at this distance in time.

They were written by John Dunbar soon after his arrival in Zambia in about 1970/71, I think, for a show at Kitwe Little Theatre. He later went on to write a great many songs, and indeed complete musical shows including pantomimes. A very talented and likeable man. Soon after the old colonial town names were officially changed, ie Fort Roseberry to Mansa, Broken Hill to Kabwe, Bancroft to Chililabombwe, etc etc, he wrote a very clever song incorporating many if not all of the new names in the words, for a panto.
I well remember learning it, with difficulty, and singing it with gusto during performances.

Other Northerners may remember that John's daughter, Barbara, later married Chris Charalambides, sadly now deceased, formerly of the Gentle People, and a regular musical performer at the Theatre and elsewhere.

Barry Woodrow may well remember the missing line but it could be a year or so before his time.

Cheers.

Ray Wright, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, November 19, 2004 at 11:57:49 (UTC)

Charlie

Actually, although a Lusakan, who like all of us loved my home town, I have no strongly chauvenist feelings. The center is my memories for me and that's where Lusaka lives along with all the memories of Zambia. HowEVER (grin)........I'd noted the following fact, a wonderful opportunity for a playful stir and to see who was awake out here ;-)

"Universe" begins with the letter "U". So "Universe" starts in LUsaka, MUfUlira, (twice - bet Paudie and the gang are grinning), LUanshya, MwinilUnga, but not Broken Hill, Kitwe, Ndola, Chisamba, Livingstone etc. Does this whimsy matter to any of those wonderful towns - hell no! Oops, sorry - No, goshdarn it!

OK let's um 'expand' this and move from there to talking about starts and centers. An explosion starts from the center but it doesn't seem reasonable to assume that it continues to expand evenly all round so in something like an expanding universe the center moves constantly.

Tina Magee, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, November 19, 2004 at 11:41:28 (UTC)

Responding to Benjie Fergusson - Ex Livingstone.

Seems as if my entry of November 15 was not successful.
I was so pleased to read of someone from Livingstone. I was at the Holy Cross Convent around the corner from the Government school. I am sure we did not meet as you are a few years older than I. But if your father was a member of the MOTH Club then our paths must have crossed. I and my 2 brothers spent most afternoons swimming at the pool at the club and of course over weekends. My Grandparents were Rosa Cloke (Henry) and my step Granddad George David Henry and he was originally from Umtali - Zimbabwe. I suppose your folks would remember my Granddad having the Disco as they used to have dances every Friday or Saturday at various venues - no TV's in those days.
I am also looking for the son of my Step Granddad - Roy Henry who married Sandy and they used to live at Waterfalls in Salisbury.
Anyhow Lad - I am not one of the Okies but what a pleasure to have a response from someone with Livingstone in common.

Take care

Romy (Rosemary)

Romy - Rosemary Kloppers, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, November 19, 2004 at 11:36:46 (UTC)

Centre of the Universe
----------------------

I think we should let Broken Hill wear the crown. After the Big Bang everything left hurriedly and we're still trying to get away.

Mike Wilson, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, November 19, 2004 at 10:35:28 (UTC)

Mwizenge Tembo,
Can you recall whether the tree (used for cord or rope) had thorns? Good rope can be made from Mimosa Thorn trees (Acacia Karroo) – easily recognised by the big thorns - white with dark tips and paired. In Zulu it’s called umunga, umtholo or umuthi osawatela – obviously for its medicinal properties. The roots, when burned and powdered, are rubbed in small cuts to relieve lumbago; chewed as an aphrodisiac (I hope you’re reading this Mr. Green?) and when soaked in water – the fluid is taken to treat gonorrhea (ditto). Crushed roots are mixed with food and given to babies to relieve cholic. The sap used to be exported from SA as “Cape Gum” as it has excellent adhesive qualities – and it can be used in confectionary. These trees indicate the best and sweetest grazing lands. A most useful tree to have around.

By the way - Craig, our famous ISP host, gave Lusaka the apt title of 'funazonke'. As you're probably aware, Harari/Salisbury is, and still deserves, the title of "bambazonke"; albeit for different reasons in today's political climate.

Dear Tina Magee,
Heartfelt thanks from all the members of the honourable order of “Boons Bar League of Gentlemen”. We never claimed that the ‘Universe’ began at Broken Hill, but rather that BH was the ‘centre of the known universe’. Unfortunately, your emphatic endorsement of this fact leaves the people of the Copperbelt and Livingstone ‘beyond the pale’. You are advocating the boundaries of the ‘universe’ start from Lusaka in the South and extend to Mumbwa in the SE, then just past Kashitu in the North and on to Chingombe in the East.
We feel this is a bit unfair for those that don’t fall within this definition, and have decided to define the ‘universe’ as the area lying between the Zambezi River in the South, Lake Mweru (and Kalobo Falls) in the North, etc. etc. – with Broken Hill/Kabwe (indisputably) at the centre.

Linda Hayes,
If Madoda Grins, during your UK visit, pulls out a large Mimosa thorn to use as a toothpick – be wary. He’s been chewing the roots of a certain tree!

Regards
CJ

Charles Cartmill, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, November 19, 2004 at 10:22:55 (UTC)

Mwizenge
Kitwe had all these nationalities you mention and more. Those guys in skirts that you mention, when you gate-crashed a party in Kitwe were not true Scots, ( I think you stumbled into a Gay Party) come to Scotland and see what hospitality is all about. By the way you won’t see very many in kilts on men here.

How can you possibly think that Lusaka is the centre of the universe when you had comedians like John Parish living there?

Nicky Kontou, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, November 19, 2004 at 10:14:09 (UTC)

Tytherington Tiyende:

Linda et al
Enjoy yourselves at the reunion. We really want to see photographic evidence that you all had a blast!

Marilyn

Marilyn Noall, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, November 19, 2004 at 09:52:32 (UTC)

TINA

Sorry to disagree but Broken Hill was the Administrative Capital of the Central Province and the Provincial Commissioner based in BH was responsible for the whole of the Province including Lusaka! Your claim is refuted!!!!

Love
Chris & Ada

Chris Cantrell, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, November 19, 2004 at 09:49:41 (UTC)

Linda I note you are going to Middlesborough Scarborborough is only about an hours drive south of there get your bum down here, my mobile number is 07748488027 I surmise you have a laptop with you? Johnny.

Johnny, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, November 19, 2004 at 09:32:59 (UTC)

Ha!ha,after all this debateing as to where the centre of the universe is,I think we have proved without doubt that Zambia is the centre of the universe.
See you in Tytherington.

Pappy Papier, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, November 19, 2004 at 09:24:29 (UTC)

Hi Johnny,

Thanks for the note. I have sent a seperate message to you directly. I am looking forward to hearing from you.

Regards

Paul Widd, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, November 19, 2004 at 08:29:23 (UTC)

To mr Widd who was enquiring if any one new his dad, he was a pal of mine and if you em me direct we can chat Johnny.

Johnny, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, November 19, 2004 at 07:29:37 (UTC)

While I think of it........NEW MEMBERS (and anyone who hasn't seen this request before): Several of us have been looking for the lyrics of the following song. Does anyone remember them or even parts of them that will post them here or email them to me for posting? Thanks. Yours hopefully, Tina

In my ---*------ home
In my ----*----- home
Don't call it a barbeque call it a braai
(Missing line)
....... Where the dogs are called: "Voetsek"
And I don't know why
In my -----*---- home
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
* fill in your own personal center of the universe.

Tina Magee, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, November 19, 2004 at 06:19:10 (UTC)

Actually folks I was being both truthful and whimsical. Mufulirans and Mwinilungwans would agree.

Tina Magee, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, November 19, 2004 at 05:51:27 (UTC)

Why else do you think Lusaka is “Bambazonke”? It has everything. On our small block in Lusaka near Munali, we had neighbors from Pakistan, Australia, Egypt, and there was an Irish fellow living there. Across the street, there was a Swedish couple who had a huge Great Dane. This dog had a deep loud bark. They kept it inside the house. Thieves stayed clear of his house. One Japanese woman my wife and I befriended was the funniest Japanese I have even known. She was just learning English too. She came to our house and made sushi. Can any of the towns on the copperbelt match this?

I lived in Kitwe for 6 months in 1980. Life was not the same there. I once gate crushed into a party near Riverside. When I got in, there were all these white guys wearing skirts. They were polite and asked me to leave. I later learnt they were Scottish. If they were in Lusaka, they would have let me gate crush their party and share the great and world-renowned mosi booze with them. See, Lusaka is a great place to be. I hope you are all convinced and this ends the debate.

Mwizenge Tembo, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Friday, November 19, 2004 at 05:23:07 (UTC)

Bryan,
I am surprised that all the official names do not show chiyombo or some such related name. I can swear that from the Luangwa Bridge all the way to Chama in the Eastern Province virtually 100% of homes and other village structures use fibre from this tree. It is very common. This fibre is used for building homes, nkhokwe, tying firewood together, emergency mending of bicycle tire tubes, making rope for bows and arrows, strapping bulls when hauling wagons, tying luggage on to a bike carrier etc. etc. etc. Even when people have hung themselves in the village, they have used this fibre!! What I suspect is that people use a tree fibre according to the ecology. I don’t think I saw this tree much, for example, when I visited Mongu and the Zambezi flood plane. The Bisa and kunda people in the Luangwa Valley, on the other hand, use malaza which grows in abundance there. I even learnt how to weave a hat or basket when I Iived there using malaza.

I really miss the weaving of chingwe or rope in the village. Men would sit at the mphala and lay out the fiber. They would strip two long pieces and use their thigh to weave. It was a problem if you had long hair on your thigh. The rope was used for weaving reed mats. Weaving reed mats was so cool, and baskets too or chitundu. It was and still is a very therapeutic communal creative experience.

Mwizenge Tembo, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Friday, November 19, 2004 at 05:03:46 (UTC)

It is indisputable that the "Universe" begins in Lusaka. It doesn't begin in Broken Hill, Kitwe, Ndola, Chisamba, Chingola, Livingstone.

Tina Magee, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, November 19, 2004 at 04:30:50 (UTC)

Many thanks Bryan and Charles for the additional information on the Violet Tree. I have added the local names to my list. Was there a separate Nyanja name for it Bryan or was it one of those on the list ?
Cheers Ron

Ron Clibborn-Dyer, China [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, November 19, 2004 at 02:09:59 (UTC)

Hello Tina, and everyone,

actually i am about to depart for Ireland again, for a short holiday. It is my brothers 50th birthday and since that only happens once in a lifetime, i decided to pop in at his party for a surprise visit.

My very little farm, named Chisamba Farm, of course, is beginning to get on its feet. My chickens are laying. I have different types of layers, so i get blue eggs, (aracauna)white eggs(leghorns) and very dark brown eggs (marans). I sell them as free range rainbow eggs, and always have more buyers then eggs.

My sheep are doing okay, except that three were killed by coyotes last month.

I had a snow goose join my ducks for a while, he had injured his wing, and could not fly. fortunately after a few weeks rest he regained his health and headed south for the winter.

Horses and Bullies and family all good!! Child growning tall while i continue to grow wider! Both of us tested for a new belt in Tang soo doh, this week, and we both passed.

anyway, that is the news in brief, keep well all, and by the way
Chisamba is the best part of Zambia, forget your silly mining towns!!

Marion Murphy, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, November 19, 2004 at 01:44:11 (UTC)

Thanks Tina, I hope to see lots of flat dogs, and other reptilian species........
Peter D....J. Parrish ;0)

Ali Key, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, November 18, 2004 at 22:25:35 (UTC)

Charles
(sounds so formal after calling you Charlie!!)

You are quite in the know about the goings on inside a mine. As I said before, I prefer the earth under my feet... not over my head! As for the vibes..... thunderstorms were great, loved them to bits and miss them so much. Those wern't the vibes I was speaking about. Had a great time in Bancroft / Chililabombwe. The vibe between the young crowd at the time was wonderful. Okay.. so the thunderstorms did make it more exciting. What else can you tell me that's new? How's the shooting going? Drew is helping me so much. Great guy. When are you going to join us at Valley one Saturday? Would love to have you there.
Desi

Desiree Van der Spuy, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, November 18, 2004 at 21:23:44 (UTC)

Anna Crawford
I remember Ken Bentham very well and your mother Nan. Your brother David was in my class at school in Mufulira - either Ross Avenue or Muf High, can't remember which as I have lost track of time. I was just looking in an old 5year diary I have from that time to check whether my memory was correct and, yes, I met up with David again in 1970 in Ndola at the motor club. I used to go there with my friends Lawrence Sysum and Jill Marsh (now Sysum) and note that on 8th July 1970 we said goodbye to David who was off to Australia.

A musical that stands out in my memory is The Gondoliers, which I think Ken Bentham was involved with. It was put on in Muf at the mine club cinema, one of many productions there before the Little Theatre was built. I can remember as a child going to rehearsals with my mother, Josie Billany, who was very involved with both the musical and dramatic societies. She used to do hair and make-up, then went into lighting and also trod the boards a couple of times. I was entranced with the wigs, costumes, singing etc and it led to a lifetime love of theatre and opera.

Lesley

Lesley Billany, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, November 18, 2004 at 20:06:06 (UTC)

Nice One Peter I'll buy one and test it on Ali thogh i doubt if its that fast

John Parish, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, November 18, 2004 at 19:13:21 (UTC)

Ali

Bon Voyagey as Bugs Bunny would say! Have a lovely trip north and take pictures in the land of red earth and aqua sea and hope you have time for some drawing too.

Tina

Tina Magee, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, November 18, 2004 at 18:30:34 (UTC)

Great inventions in 2004

With apologies to Ali's three daughters. ladies, please remember I am only the messenger.....

"Japanese scientists have created a camera with such a fast shutter speed, they now can photograph a woman with her mouth shut"

Peter Dielissen, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, November 18, 2004 at 17:10:49 (UTC)

Sorry should have put a dash inbetween dialect and subject. I do assume you'll make some sense of it.
Bryan

Bryan Baker, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, November 18, 2004 at 14:32:26 (UTC)

Ron
Re: Securidaca Longepedunculata Fresen
My information on the native names in Zambia are:
Bemba Mupapi
Lala Lamba Lupape
Kaonde Lupapi, Mufufuma
Luchazi, Lovale Lunda, Mutata
Lovale Muyise
Senga Bwaze, Mwinda
Toka Mufufuma
Tonga Mufufu, Mnama, Muama
Lozi Muinda
Reference: Trees of Central Africa, Coates Palgrave,
1957, Page 346

Charles
You're right - Brachystegia boehmii is the most commonly used tree for bark rope. "Mufuti" is the Karenga name in Mashonaland. In Zambia the most common name is Mubombo out of about six tribal names. As a yongster I sat with the villagers and copied their twisting of the fibres into rope. The most practised man would start with three strands/strips, roll them with the hand on the leg, so each strand would be twisted and then twisted together as one, then used for the job on hand. As it dried out it shrank and became quite tight.

Regards Bryan

Bryan Baker, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, November 18, 2004 at 14:28:22 (UTC)

Desi & Pappy,
I agree – Dr Bancroft was an outstanding personality. In the 30’s, Broken Hill mine found itself facing liquidation when it was found that all estimates of ore reserves above the then water level at 225 ft would be exhausted within a few years. Everyone considered it impossible to lower the water table except for one dissident voice – that of Dr Bancroft, a consulting engineer. He maintained that by using the cementation process it would be possible to sink a pump shaft to lower the underground water level. A twofold diamond drilling programme was started to investigate the presence of ore bodies below the water table amd find a suitable site for sinking a water-pump shaft.
Ore deposits were subsequently located some 1000 ft below the surface, and a pump-shaft, that could handle at least 20,000,000 gallons (75,708,240 litres) of water - daily - was succesfully sunk. Far from dismantling the plant in 1940, the mine was able to expand operations – all thanks to Dr J A Bancroft.
Judging by Doug’s comments on ‘web-feet’ – no wonder your hometown was named after this ‘wet mine specialist’ - who cut his teeth at ‘the centre of the known Universe’ - Broken Hill.
Here endeth lesson ‘Broken Hill 101’.

P.S. Regarding his namesake town - were you refering to earth tremors, or a good thunderstorm, when you wrote about ‘great vibes’?
Regards

Charles Cartmill, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, November 18, 2004 at 12:59:45 (UTC)

John Parish, I am with Tina, regarding your poetry, it is a bit over the top, and since I have the GNR as my home page my ,3 daughters 18, 13, 11 do read the message board,it would be nice if your postings contained less "Adult" material......don't worry it is not pick on John Parish day today.....ask Johnny Green what I am like when he goes overboard on his emails!!!!!.........oh and I do have a very good sense of humour as most of us do.............

Ali Key, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, November 18, 2004 at 10:35:26 (UTC)

Desiree,
I think you could be right,where was Bancroft again?ha!ha.

Pappy Papier, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, November 18, 2004 at 09:45:23 (UTC)

Peter Bromwich and Ron C-D,
You’re absolutely right about the toxicity of the roots. In 1943 eight deaths were reported by the MO in the Balovale area of Zambia. Two were young girls who had the roots administered to procure abortions. Root scrapings contain high quantities of methyl salicylate, which imparts a strong smell of wintergreen that is supposed to keep snakes away.
A friend, who’s a bit of a ‘tree doctor’, tells me the best bark rope comes from the barchystegia boehmi – the mufuti tree (Mwizenge - could this be the tree you're looking for?). I’m sure this is the bark Mariot (our gardener) and I used to tie down the thatch on a hut we built for my pet duikers when I was a young boy. I also used to make snares with the same cord. It was simplicity itself to make. All we did was strip off the inner bark in narrow strips, as long as possible. We’d then further clean and strip the fibres using our teeth, fold the resulting strip in half; and (starting at the fold) roll the two lengths of fibres along our thigh so that they locked alternatively with each other. Repeating this process with previously rolled fibres, we’d build up a soft, pliable and very strong cord.
In primary school, we used to cut open an old golf ball and unravel the rubber from it. Using the same technique as described for making the cord above, we’d make ‘finger catapults’ – we called them ‘lakkies’ – for shooting pieces of orange peel or folded paper at some unwary victim’s neck.
Regards

Charles Cartmill, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, November 18, 2004 at 09:02:08 (UTC)

Kenneth Kaunda

For anyone who is interested - KK is being interviewed on Radio 702 SA time 10h00 tomorrow. You can listen on line at www.702.co.za - it is Tim's weekly hour-long slot for Heroes.

Bye, Jilly

Jill Aplin, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, November 18, 2004 at 07:28:52 (UTC)

Anthony
I am new to the site but reading about your involvement with the Mikado made me think. My step-mothers first huband produced a lot of these musicals and my parents were also actively involved. Not sure if it was Ndola (centre of the universe) or Muf. His name was Ken Bentham, ring any bells. Olive Bentham (Crawford) and three daughters are living in South Africa. I have a lot of old photos that have been left with myself and my brother. Some are obviously of theatre productions but unfortunately we don't know names. I see you are in Perth Aus. as well. Let me know if these photos would be of interst to you. As for posting them on this site I'll have to wait for the son to get home from school. Very sad. Still coping with this message board thingy.
Anna Crawford

Anna Crawford, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, November 18, 2004 at 06:13:51 (UTC)

And further continuing the poetic tradition:

Some input, John P...
I'd like you to see
While it takes quite a bit
To embarrass Miss T...
That: "I will survive"
was way too rude for me.

You like blatant humour, that's your bag, and there may be others that do too. I have a naughty streak, but personally "yeuk" to talking about sluts and all that in-your-face physical description. For one I'm asking nicely would you consider keeping anything that blatant off the Board and in private emails?

Tina Magee, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, November 18, 2004 at 05:49:55 (UTC)

Thanks to Mwizenge, Charles and Peter here is one more to add to the list of Zambian Trees.

Can any members please confirm the local Zambian names.

Cheers Ron

Securidaca longepedunculata Fresen.
POLYGALACEAE
Vasekele: k'aieku (k'eiku)
Punguvlei: k'aieku (k'eiku)
English: violet tree
Foto: Flowers and previous year's fruits of Securidaca longepedunculata, taken in October. The seeds provide an oil for hair and skin care.
Description: An occasional tree up to 5m in height which grows on deep sands but never in omurambas. It flowers from October till November in attractive, intensive violet panicles that have a strong, sweet and pleasant smell. The fruit has one single membranous green wing turning beige when getting ripe. The fruit stays on the tree for several months.
Use: The seeds are used for cosmetic purposes. They are removed from the fruit, pounded in a mortar and cooked briefly. The resulting oil is then used for the hair and for skin care. The oil is not edible and is regarded as being very poisonous when eaten.
Medical use: The roots provide a remedy for treating tooth ache. They are heated in water and boiled briefly and then removed again. The sore tooth is rinsed for some few minutes with the infusion, then it is spat out again. It should not be swallowed!

Source:
http://www.sigridleger.de/book/index.html?/book/plants/pl_095.html

Other sources: Giess p.329, v.Koenen p.172, Palgrave p.388, Le Roux p.79.
___________________________________________________
African Journal of Reproductive Health > Vol. 3, No. 2 (1999)
Abortion in the North of Burkina Faso
Karl Lorenz Dehane, Department of Tropical Hygiene and Public Health, University of Heidelberg
Abstract
Knowledge and use of abortifacients were investigated in a remote ethnically heterogeneous area in the north of Burkina Faso. A questionnaire survey was carried out among 320 married women in 21 villages and supplemented with key informants' interviews, clinical observations at the provincial hospital, and observations in one of the villages. Almost half of the sampled women of all ethnic groups admitted to the existence of abortion carried out by their peers. Response rates and knowledge of abortions were lower among younger women and among those belonging to the Islamic Hamallist and Wahabiya sects. Abortions were commonly induced by drinking a watery solution of the roots and leaves of a commonly found bush –– Securidaca longepedunculata. The plant contains uterine contraction stimulating ergot-alkaloids, but also strychnine-like toxic substances. It is reportedly effective in provoking abortions within one day of treatment, but its side-effects are severe and include heavy vaginal bleeding, abdominal pain, diarrhoea and vomiting, and death. There is a need for the rapid introduction of safer birth control methods in the region. (Afr J Reprod Health 1999; 3[2]: 40-50)

Key Words: Burkina Faso, Fulbe, Gurmance, abortion, abortifacients, ergot-alkaloids
http://www.ajol.info/viewarticle.php?id=12479&jid=49&layout=abstract
__________________________________________________

Ron Clibborn-Dyer, China [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, November 18, 2004 at 01:37:54 (UTC)

Lock your doors and hide your valuables, the first of the Texas Tornadoes is about to depart for the Tytherington Tiyende. Hopefully the immigration department won't remember me from the last fiasco.. grin.

Looking forward to seeing old friends and meeting some new faces.

Linda Hayes, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, November 18, 2004 at 01:09:00 (UTC)

Seing as we seem to be waxing poetic, what about:
Tis the season to be jolly,
Fa-la-la-la-la-la-la.
See the nuts on that big collie,
Fa-la-la-la-la-la-la-la.

A strange old bird is the Pelican,
His beak can hold more than his belly can,
He can hold in his beak,
Food enough for a week,
I wonder how the hell he can.

Ken Fernie, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, November 17, 2004 at 23:29:44 (UTC)

Many thanks to all for your contributions. I have spent the last few hours going back to the archives and came across photo's of Prince Charles School, Nkana Hospital as well as the well kept Mine offices.

If anyone is going to Kitwe at any time please would you, if at all possible, take a photo of 152 Princess Street and 14 Livingstone Street as well as Riverrain School. One day I may go there myself but don't know when it will be - saving madly!!!

Thanks also to Jill for posting a photo of Kitwe Girls High - I can't begin to tell you what it meant to me.

LINDA HAYES - Jill mentioned that you are extremely switched on - what a nice compliment - could you please help me in letting me know where to look in the archives for photo's of Kitwe/Nkana. Would love to see more!!!

Take care and thanks again for everything. Jill, you have been a star - will be e mailing you soon. Spoke to your sister. Chat later.

Kindest regards,
Margaret Botha

Margaret Botha, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, November 17, 2004 at 21:45:24 (UTC)

Jilly
..........ahem........I could say Broken hill, Lusaka and Kafue...buuuuuut I have to go with my heart and say the whole country is the Centre of the Universe....giggles.....got to be diplomatic these days ;0)

Ali Key, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, November 17, 2004 at 21:32:22 (UTC)

SA won! 2 goals to 1!!

I am very happy - we have to start winning in the build-up to 2010 - we have NEVER even scored a goal against Nigeria since we were re-admitted to international sport in 1992.

Jill Aplin, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, November 17, 2004 at 21:09:27 (UTC)

Bill Knott

Sad to see another Muf teacher die....despite her being the grand old age of 90... Barbara Lockyer was very special to many of us....and certainly touched our lives, just as your mother did...............as did Dear Laura Sharp, who had me as her "monitor" to fetch her water, every time she needed another "Grandpa Headache Powder"........we must have been little sods!!

Being a school teacher myself, I can only thank those wonderful ladies for steering me on my path!

ON ANOTHER SUBJECT ALTOGETHER!!

Arthur............ when are the rest of the crowd going to be able to see my BEAUTIFUL ex Muf Wolseley 6/110???

Yes Heather I FOUND ONE!!! :))

Paul Cowie, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, November 17, 2004 at 21:07:42 (UTC)

You guys ALL have the wrong info. BANCROFT was BEST...... Small town but great vibes. It was where the Kitwe people really wanted to be..!!!!
Desi.

Desiree Van der Spuy, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, November 17, 2004 at 20:51:36 (UTC)

Sorry - Nigeria are 'The Super Eagles' And Sean Bartlett has just scored a GOAL for SA! Cool, Man!

Jilly

(Sorry - I am a sports freak - can't help it - years of conditioning by my sports-mad family)

Jill Aplin, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, November 17, 2004 at 18:53:41 (UTC)

Ali,

KITWE is the CENTRE OF THE KNOWN UNIVERSE - got it?
Good!

I am watching the Nelson Mandela Cup - an annual invitational soccer match - this year Bafana Bafana vs The Eagles (Nigeria) at Ellis Park. Ellis Park is very close to the 'The Brow', Hillbrow - there are more Nigerians in the crowd than home supporters! They all stay in Hillbrow - I used to live there once upon a time! Madiba is there - looking a bit frail with a walking stick - but a geat shirt! Papa Afrika - what a wonderful man! My son, Tristan is there - and he is so excited just because he is doing the catering in the Presidential suite and Mandela waved to him! Must be because his mother is a KITWE BUN!

Too nerve wracking to watch this match AND post here - so I am going - Bafana Bafana have never beaten Nigeria.....much nail-biting ahead!

Love, Jilly

Jill Aplin, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, November 17, 2004 at 18:48:24 (UTC)

I WILL SURVIVE REMIX What Gloria Gaynor really meant to sing......

MALE VERSION..............

First I was afraid I was petrified
At the ugly slapper that was lying by my side
I would've drunk a little less,
I would've tried to keep my head.
If I'd known for just one second you'd
Assault me in your bed.

I tried to go, walk out the door
But you've been sitting on my legs and
I Can't feel them anymore
And now you're sitting on my face,
my nose has vanished - not a trace,
I only hope that you're big knickers aren't
Made of liquorice lace

I want to go, I've got to leave
Before your fat and naked body makes me want to heave
Only hope that no one saw me walking home
With such a slut.
God the things that you get up to
when you're half cut.

Please let me go, I'm getting scared
There's nothing I can do to stop those ugly
Breasts from being bared.
I think that I must have been mad, God what
Made me want to court her?
With t'''ts that look like Tesco bags I've just
Filled up with water

It's time to go, run out the door
She's started hinting she wants sex on her
Dirty lino floor
I don't think there's anything worse
Than the al-co-hol-ics curse.
I WILL SURVIVE !

John Parish, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, November 17, 2004 at 18:19:38 (UTC)

Sing Like this..... Away in a manger...............

A strange bird is the cuckoo
As he sits upon the grass,
With it’s wings neatly folded
And it’s beak up his arse.

In this strange position
It can only say “twit,”
For it’s hard to say cuckoo
With a beak full of shit.

The owl is a funny bird
With its eyes big and round,
And an uglier bastard
Can scarcely be found.

It flies through the night sky
Going “Tu whit, tu woo,”
Which in owl type of language
Means, “B.....ks to you”!

Boom Boom Ken ..............................

John Parish, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, November 17, 2004 at 18:15:29 (UTC)

CHRISTMAS FRUIT CAKE RECIPE

Ingredients:
1 Cup water
2 Cups dried fruit
1 Tablespoon salt
1 Cup sugar
4 Large eggs
Lemon juice
1 tsp. baking soda
8 oz Nuts
8 oz Butter
1 Bottle Whiskey

Method:
Sample the whiskey to check for quality

Take a large bowl.
Check the whiskey again, to be sure it is of the highest quality, pour 1 level cup and drink.
Repeat

Turn on the electric mixer, beat 2 oz. butter in a large fluffy bowl.
Add one tsp. of sugar and beat again. Make sure the whiskey is still OK. Cry another tup. Turn off the mixterer. Break two bowls and add to the eggs and chuck in the dried fruit. Mix on the turner. If the dried fruit gets stuck in the beaterers, pry it loose with a drewscriver.

Sample the whiskey again to check for tonsisticity.

Next, sift to sups of calt or something. Who cares? Check the whiskey. Now sift the lemon juice and strain your nuts.

Add one table spoon of sugar or something. Whatever you can find. Grease the oven. Turn the cake tin to 350 degrees. Don't forget to beat off the turner. Throw the bowl out of the window. Check the whiskey again and go to bed.

Next day, take 3 aspirins -and go to Marks and Spencer. Buy Christmas cake.

NB no f's etc

John Parish, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, November 17, 2004 at 18:00:10 (UTC)

I remember the African Violet tree well from my medical training in Harare. The roots were used to produce abortion, and over the years I met about six or seven women, usually in the mortuary, often with the root still inside them because it worked unpleasantly and very quickly. Be wary of the bark!

Peter Bromwich, Spain [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Wednesday, November 17, 2004 at 17:22:38 (UTC)

Peter Dielissen
Looks like we will, once again, have to quell insurrection in the ranks. Ndola and Kitwe are jousting for Broken Hill’s title of ‘the centre of the known Universe’. Last time it was Lusaka trying to lay claim to this title.
Mwizenge Tembo
I never emailed you directly, as I think the subject is of interest to many of the readers. A common tree for making twine or rope has already been discussed on this board – the Monkey Bread tree (Piliostigma thonningii). Green fruit pods can also be used as a subsitute for soap. But I think you’re probably refering to the violet tree (securidaca longepedunculata). Fibre, obtained from the bark, is used to make fishing nets and as thread to sew bark. On the Zambesi locals used the bark as soap, and the leaves to treat snake bite.
Regards
CJ

Charles Cartmill, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, November 17, 2004 at 14:26:22 (UTC)

Northerners

Things have been crazy over the last few weeks/months with very little time to read the message board, let alone post any messages. But I am now in Amsterdam (having spent a night and morning in Brussels enroute - what a beautiful city - don't leave it off your itinerary if you are visiting Europe) for a few days and have found the time to catch up with myself and the Board.

Last week in London I attended World Travel Market and the interest in Zambia is phenomenal. Help !! Are we going to lose our quiet, peaceful existence and be overrun by tourists?

Next year is the 150th anniversary of David Livingstone's (Zambia's first tourist) visit to the Victoria Falls and it is also the Centenary of the town of Livingstone (when it was moved from the Old Drift) and also the completion of the bridge across the Zambezi. A couple of us sat down whilst in London and after a few beers (sadly not Mosi) have worked out a number of events which, we hope, are really going to put Livingstone (and Zambia) on the map.

It is all very exciting and I'm looking forward to getting back home to 'get things started'.

Johnny

Thanks for the call and hope the operation went well. I'll give you a call when I get back to London on Thursday

Meg

Evan flew over to London to meet with me and, over a another couple of beers, we have worked out a wicked filming schedule which covers Lusaka, Sinazongwe and Livingstone. They start filming at the end of January.

Heather Chalcraft, Zambia [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Wednesday, November 17, 2004 at 14:23:04 (UTC)

I thought Northern Rhodesia/Zambia was the centre of the universe

Ali Key, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, November 17, 2004 at 14:16:40 (UTC)

KITWE IS THE DADDY.

Nicky Kontou, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, November 17, 2004 at 13:47:15 (UTC)

Hi everyone,

This is my first posting and I would like to hear from anyone who new my parents Brian and Maude Widd.

Greg Koll
I see you are looking for some NRP goodies . I may be able to help.

Paul Widd, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, November 17, 2004 at 13:30:48 (UTC)

You Ndola people are nearly right,another 20 miles or so and you will have reached the centre of the universe,but then I suppose you already new that,ha!ha.Kitwe rocks.

Pappy Papier, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, November 17, 2004 at 13:20:58 (UTC)

Hi Robert,

You are not confused - Ndola is the centre of the Universe!
Cheers,
Graeme

Graeme Schreuder, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, November 17, 2004 at 10:05:10 (UTC)

The internet begging letters are getting gloriously international. I've now seen em from South Africa, Nigeria, Zimbabwe, Spain, Thailand, and other places besides. It's like a sort of internet version of train spotting really. Ali even got one from Scarborough the other day - oops no, sorry that was Johnny. Different sort of begging letter...

Tina Magee, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, November 17, 2004 at 04:40:19 (UTC)

Marion!

Good to see you posting! There I was thinking the leprechauns had got you on one of your horse buying trips to Ireland. How are the family, the horses the "bullies" and every other little thing?

Tina Magee, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, November 17, 2004 at 04:32:00 (UTC)

There was a story I believe on 60 minutes about the Nigerian scam. Apparently an enterprising Briton wanted to give the scammers a dose of their own medicine. The Briton replied to the e-mail. He said he worked for a church charity in Uk which was an organization that exactly needed that type of money. He could help the scammer. But first the scammer had to do a couple of things to prove his seriousness. One of them was that the scammer had to put a tatoo on a certain part of his anatomy, get a photo of it, and e-mail it to him as the leader of the "charity organization". He did that. Second, the scammmer had to do something else. Eventually the scammer caught on that all of this was a ruse. The Briton was warned that many of the scammers might actually be murderous criminals. Kids don't try this at home.

Mwizenge Tembo, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Wednesday, November 17, 2004 at 03:37:27 (UTC)

Welcome to the writers with ties to Ndola. Two in one day. Makes me wonder if Broken Hill is about to be replaced by Ndola as the "Centre of the Universe".

Now let me get this straight. An African millionaire farmer in Zimbabwe has money stashed in Jo'burg and needs our help. I suggest there's help available closer to home, in Lagos!

Robert Summers, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, November 17, 2004 at 03:23:58 (UTC)

Anthony,
Did you say you acted in "Mikado" in Ndola in 1954? There is a friend of mine on our faculty who teaches theater and is a "Gilbert and Sullivan" specialist. He has taught here for 31 years and is retiring this year. Infact he just directed "Pirates of Picance" (not sure of the spelling). I went to see it. I think he might be intested in what you did.

I am writing something and I need to know the Tumbuka name of the tree that is most used for getting fiber or nyozi. I keep saying "Chiyombo" but I need to confirm with someone who is in the know. Please, respond privately to my e-mail.

Mwizenge Tembo, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Wednesday, November 17, 2004 at 03:08:21 (UTC)

As there are many American posters (and some news from the USA does not filter through to the rest of the world , I have just picked up an incredable posting on another site that Jane Fonda has been voted as one of the outstanding women of the 20th Century, I don't know which this poll this is or how creditable it is ) I wonder if any of them are aware of this award and who could have awarded this to one of the most revolting persons of this last 100 years. Her attitude during the ' Nam war, considering it was conscripts who bore the brunt of the suffering, was political, without a moments thought to the GI's involved in the conflict. It will not take a minite to look at John Winter on our site, Bush Telegraph, dated 15th Nov. ref Bleeding Heart Liberal (Rhodesian World Wide) to save me repeating some of the gory details, he provides the general idea in one tale. (True)
Ayub: Re your scam regarding the reposessing and now repossed black millionaire farmers in SR , you must give credit to someone keeping up with current events, (about three weeks since this story emerged, I believe.) Lets hope what goes around comes around. (Not your scam , but to the political thieves known as the Freedom Fighters )

Colin Munro, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, November 17, 2004 at 02:43:53 (UTC)

My original message seems to have disappeared. I am new to this site and would like to contact anyone who might remember myself of family. I lived in Ndola from
1960 - 1974. Dad (Jim Crawford - deceased )worked for ZCBC an Mum ( Nan Crawford - deceased ) worked last for the Catholic Church opposite the Convent. I went to Kansenji Primary until grade 3 then onto the Convent. Left there in '74 to move to Wales U.K. Left there in '78 and moved to Australia. Any messages please or contacts.

Anna Crawford, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, November 17, 2004 at 01:00:25 (UTC)

I had not posted in over a year. I had an inclination to post, and whammo, it disappeared. I wonder if it was trying to tell me something!!

Marion Murphy, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, November 16, 2004 at 21:47:58 (UTC)

Doug and fellow South Africans,
I received this email this morning:

"I do understand the concern this letter will bring to you for the fact that it comes from someone strange to you. But be assured for it comes with good intentions. I am Wendy Omaha the wife of the late Mr Sipo Omaha from Zimbabwe.My husband was among the rich black farmers murdered in cold blood in Zimbabwe by war veterans of Robert Mugabe. However, before his death he deposited the sum of US$12 million in a private security company here in Johannesburg South Africa. This money I want to transfer to a foreign account with your assistance. Please write to me through my private email address womaha@dbzmail.com or telephone +27 83 4829437. Regards Wendy Omaha"

Now your country is not being spared by this scum! Sounds like a Nigerian name!!

Ayub Ismail Zumla, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, November 16, 2004 at 21:26:19 (UTC)

Craig...

Maybe all that HTML stuff Doug and I are learning to post caused the board to hiccup????

..

Peter Dielissen, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, November 16, 2004 at 21:11:25 (UTC)

Peter
Thanks. The compose button returns it to normal script. Obvious but I was in such a state of shock at succeeding with Blog that I missed it.

Craig
Thanks for restoring our lifeline! I thought maybe it was me who had blogger#d it up.

Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, November 16, 2004 at 20:55:48 (UTC)

PROBLEM WITH THE MESSAGE BOARD

Thanks to those who brought the problem with the message board to my attention. I don't know why, but it looks like the file that is the message board was corrupted somehow at sometime between about 09:00 and 13:00 GMT/UTC. A back up is made every day at 08:00 GMT/UTC, so I have restored that back up. However, the log shows that there were nine posts made after the last post made before the back up, so if you posted a message here after that time and you don't see it, please re-post. My apologies.

Craig Hartnett, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Tuesday, November 16, 2004 at 19:44:46 (UTC)

Hello out there - this is my first entry on this site. Is there anyone out there who lives near Waterloo, Ontario, Canada ? An old friend from Nkana days - Karl Wylie - has posted on this site that he is trying to contact me, but his email is defective or something and his membership has been de-activated. If anyone is in the area, please go by his house, bang on his door and tell him to log on and make good !! In case anyone has an appetite for nostalgic items, I have dug into my "box of stuff" and found a program for "The Mikado" in which, my sister and I appeared (in the chorus). Put on by the Ndola Choral Society and the Luanshya Light Orchestra (seven players !!). It played at the dear old Bijou in Ndola and at the Mine Club in Luanshya. There are no dates on the program, but it had to be in 1954 as that was the only year I lived in Ndola before going to a job at Nkana. 50 years ago this year, dear God. Can anyone remember seeing it - it must have been a truly memorable evening ?!! Perhaps someone remembers me or my sister Margaret or our mother, who worked up at St. Michaels the childrens home? Anyway, someone please go and wake up Karl !! Cheers.

Anthony Holt, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, November 16, 2004 at 07:24:19 (UTC)

Hi Peter

So far from Eshowe Steven Barratt, Bruce Henley and myself taking ten days to have a look see.
Cheers

Philip Pain, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, November 16, 2004 at 03:48:31 (UTC)

"The way to achieve inner peace is to finish all the things you've started."

So I looked around the house to see all the things I started and hadn't finished . . and before leaving the house this morning: I finished off a bottle of red wine, a bottle of white wine, the Bailey's, Kahlua and Wild Turkey, the Prozac, some valium, some cheesecake and a box of chocolates.

You have no idea how good I feel . . .

Esther Pettersson, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, November 15, 2004 at 22:16:43 (UTC)

Paul C.
Sad to hear another fine Mufulira teacher has gone to their maker. Mrs. Lockyer was a good person.
Do you know what happened to JudY I had a 5 day crush on her if I recall.

Bill

William Knott, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, November 15, 2004 at 21:48:52 (UTC)

Doug,
You would certainly have met my Dad. He was underground foreman at the time.....!! You guys that enjoy living like ants in holes. I had the opportunity to go underground a few times but declined! I enjoy the sky above me and the earth beneath my feet. The thought of thousands of tons of earth above my head does not excite me at all! I heard all about what you guys did from my Dad. He used to marvel at how brave you were. There's a feather for your cap.!! Thanks for the message, really enjoyed it.

Charles,
We really must stop meeting this way. When are we doing lunch?? Sorry about not comming to the club but there's no one to coach and the clays fly wrong!!! Too many no birds and broken machines. People are not interested in moving forward. Love the guys, all of them but time to move on. I want to improve and I'm sure you'll be the first to agree that Durbanville is not the place. Shooting 100 targets on Wednesdays and Saturdays now. Don't have that at Durbanville. Miss you all as well. Trying my best to be tops in skeet for the ladies. Going to Durban this weekend....... go see what Riva Club is like. Give my love to all and hope to see you soon.

Desi.

Desiree Van der Spuy, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, November 15, 2004 at 20:16:37 (UTC)

Northerners....

This is where Doug and I do our HTML stuff:

http://www.blogger.com/home

Peter Dielissen, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, November 15, 2004 at 20:12:29 (UTC)

Hi Doug....

Try hitting the "COMPOSE" button to unHTML...

There must be other "easy to use" HTML editors like this with more features????

Peter

Peter Dielissen, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, November 15, 2004 at 20:08:26 (UTC)

Any of you who grew up in Muf, and went to Muf Primary School, might remember Barbara Lockyer...mother of Judy and Jane, and wife of Charles. sadly she died, at the age of 90 on 31st October.

A wonderful mother and teacher.

Hamba ghashle Barbara

Paul Cowie, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, November 15, 2004 at 19:54:15 (UTC)

Thanks Philip and Ayub for the spice info.

David
I will try to write Sh#t and Fa#t in future as long as you stop eating bacon sandwiches in the bar in a Muslim country. At least don't enjoy them so much :-)

We seem to be a bit touchy about various posting recently. Lighten up guys. Look at the lawyers. I gave them a good teasing and not one moaned. I wonder what this white powder is in this letter I received today?

Back to Bloggo Land!

Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, November 15, 2004 at 19:53:24 (UTC)

Peter
This is frightening! Even a stone age technologist like myself can make lekker colours! How do I unHTML what I have written in the Blog? I will go back and when all else fails read the instructions. You have added a new dimension to my world.

Cheers - Doug

Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, November 15, 2004 at 19:43:06 (UTC)

Good Evening World
This is Doug from Vryheid, Kwazulu Natal, in the Republic of South Africa. This is a test to see how this Blog works.

Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, November 15, 2004 at 19:38:43 (UTC)

Mike Fancourt.

I never even thought about there being a human, who could fit the description I gave in the conductor story. Please let me be the first to say that if what I said was insensitive, to any person who may be suffering from such a disabilty, I really am sorry.

Craig.

Yes, what I said, could be considered in bad taste and will never happen again.

John Paris.
I did receive your apology by private mail and thought that was the end of the subject.

But,

I personally didn't have a problem with what you wrote about Thailand and the ladies there, as I have only passed through Bangkok once or twice.
It was the use of the "F" word that I raised an objection to which was under mechanical and not related to Thai Ladies.

If it is possible, I would like to meet you when you next pass through Muscat.

Keith Binns.

You should stand and be counted, it was you that triggered my memory off with bus / conducter story, How are you getting on? and I get all the cr#p.
Nice one, see you in Abu Dhabi, sometime soon I hope, my friend.

David Hoyle, Oman [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Monday, November 15, 2004 at 19:06:40 (UTC)

Hi Doug
Just looked it up in my INDIAN DELIGHTS COOK BOOK

Ajwain ajmo.......Celery or tymol seeds

Cheers

Philip Pain, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, November 15, 2004 at 18:04:59 (UTC)

David Hoyle,

My wife is Thai too and helped me type in the joke so dont be so sensative mate. Eid mabrook oh yes i'm Muslim too

John Parish, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, November 15, 2004 at 18:04:57 (UTC)

Ken Fernie,

Sorry mate (Re my language) I was'nt thinking (as usual) { :- ) and i take your slapping, i got a letter from Trevor Jenkins yesterday yes Trevor!! no changes there if you know what i mean.

John Parish, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, November 15, 2004 at 17:59:28 (UTC)

Rocky

Errata

In all fairness the only thing I have organized about the Tiyende is its name and I hope additionally to be able to add a little mayhem.

Tina Magee, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, November 15, 2004 at 17:22:41 (UTC)

Pappy, I arrive Heathrow 27th November and Ross will meet me. From there up to leicester until 1st December as I have hired a car and will go up to Blackburn to see some friends and across to Middlesbrough to see my brother in law. My cousin in Glasgow is hoping to see me and I have taken the car until 9th december so weather and roads permitting I would like to get across to Glasgow as well. So we may meet up there. Ross is working over that period so i will be on my own. I hope to see Dave and Hartley Heaton Alistair Watson and maybe even Brian Geyser. Would be good to drop in on Brasso (be prepared) as I might re hire the car after my mum's 80th on 11th december as I leave on 21st december (my wedding anniv. 30!!) and may grab it for a few more days - gary are you there? I saw Taffy and Millie White end of Sept at the coast - remember them? I missed out seeing Ronnie Clifton but will catch him in december as we go down to Toti when I get back. Cheers.

Bob Gillies, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, November 15, 2004 at 16:14:18 (UTC)

For all our Australian residents:

QANTAS MECHANICS

After every flight, pilots fill out a form called a gripe sheet, which conveys to the mechanics problems encountered with the aircraft during the flight that need repair or correction. The mechanics read and correct the problem, and then respond in writing
on the lower half of the form what remedial action was taken, and the pilot reviews the gripe sheets before the next flight.. Never let it be said that ground crews and engineers lack a sense of humor.

Here are some actual logged maintenance complaints and problems as submitted by Qantas pilots and the solution recorded by maintenance engineers. By the way, Qantas is the only major airline that has never had an accident.

(P = The problem logged by the pilot.)
(S = The solution and action taken by the engineers.)

P: Left inside main tyre almost needs replacement.
S: Almost replaced left inside main tyre.

P: Test flight OK, except auto-land very rough.
S: Auto-land not installed on this aircraft.

P: Something loose in cockpit.
S: Something tightened in cockpit.

P: Dead bugs on windshield.
S: Live bugs on back-order.

P: Autopilot in altitude-hold mode produces a 200 feet per minute descent.
S: Cannot reproduce problem on ground.

P: Evidence of leak on right main landing gear.
S: Evidence removed.

P: DME volume unbelievably loud.
S: DME volume set to more believable level.

P: Friction locks cause throttle levers to stick.
S: That's what they're there for.

P: IFF inoperative.
S: IFF always inoperative in OFF mode.

P: Suspected crack in windshield.
S: Suspect you're right.

P: Number 3 engine missing.
S: Engine found on right wing after brief search.

P: Aircraft handles funny.
S: Aircraft warned to straighten up, fly right, and be serious.

P: Target radar hums.
S: Reprogrammed target radar with lyrics.

P: Mouse in cockpit.
S: Cat installed.

P: Noise coming from under instrument panel. Sounds like a midget pounding on something with a hammer.
S: Took hammer away from midget.

Betty Mahady, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, November 15, 2004 at 16:01:23 (UTC)

Reunion....

So, who is going so far???

I already have my airline ticket!

...Peter

Peter Dielissen, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, November 15, 2004 at 15:40:25 (UTC)

David Hoyle,

I was interested to see your posting about Eid in Oman. Eid was one day earlier in Abu Dhabi (13th Nov) than in Oman. It was also one day earlier than in Australia. The night before we didn’t know but we were aware that the declaration might be made after 8pm that night. The following morning when the 5 o’clock call to prayer woke us up (as usual) it didn’t just last 5 minutes but nearly 2 hours. We assumed that this message was announcing the end of Ramadan and start of Eid and walked round the block to the very large mosque. We saw several hundred worshippers who were unable to get into the mosque praying outside. They were blocking the wide main road and police cars with flashing lights were parked cordoning off the road for the worshippers. It was quite amazing to see such a huge and open profession of faith. The service was broadcast on the very loud speakers outside the mosque. When the ceremony ended there were handshakes, hugs and kisses all round as the people wished each other a happy and joyous Eid. I also think they were congratulating each other on the difficult task of fasting from dawn to dusk for a whole month. It was hard enough for us non-Muslims to refrain from eating and drinking (smoking, no problem) in public for the month. At work we had to discreetly retire to a private and closed office for our mid-day sandwich.

The paper, which we bought later that morning, said the following:
Abu Dhabi: Today is the first of Shawwal and the first day of Eid Al Fitr, the Moonsighting Committee announced here yesterday.
"Following the legitimate measures, which has been used to establish the sighting of the moon, as well as contacts with neighbouring states, November 13, 2004, will be the first day of Eid Al Fitr in the UAE," the committee said in a statement.
Eid prayers will be held at 7.05am across the country.
The Ministry of Justice, Islamic Affairs and Awqaf and the Moonsighting Committee used the opportunity to pray to God to grant the soul of the late Shaikh Zayed Bin Sultan Al Nahyan perfect peace and to guide and guard President His Highness Shaikh Khalifa Bin Zayed Al Nahyan and His Highness Shaikh Maktoum Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Vice President and Prime Minister of the UAE and Ruler of Dubai, and Their Highnesses Supreme Council Members and Rulers of the Emirates.

************************

Just to wrap this up I would add that all the messages of Eid were of love, good will, peace, forgiveness, generousity, charity, kindness, family reunions and all the things which good people everywhere hold valuable. I watched the Sunday Remembrance Services from London live on BBC World TV the next day and the messages were exactly the same.

Back to Abu Dhabi, and the country is now 13 days into the 40 day mourning period for the former leader. Whilst the many bars reopened on 13th no music is allowed until December 12th. Sheikh Zayed, the ruler for over 30 years since the formation of the UAE, is deeply loved and missed by all Emiratis and expats for whom he did so much.

Keith Binns, United Arab Emirates [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, November 15, 2004 at 15:01:29 (UTC)

Hi Doug,

I was very interested in your description of working underground at Bancroft. I remember Bancroft as the wettest underground working on the Copperbelt, although I'm told that Nchanga in its early days was also a very wet Mine.
The electrical pumping load at Bancroft was 30 Megawatts and we joked that not only were you dewatering your own pit, but that of the Japanese over the border, who, working the same orebody, claimed they had ne serious water problems. If there had beeen a total loss of power to Bancroft for about 45 minutes the lower pumping chamber would have flooded, the remaining pumps would not have been able to handle the inflow and the pit would have been totally inundated. The situation became better when two 10 Megawatt gas turbine alternators were installed, but it was always a sensitive area.

Mike Wilson, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, November 15, 2004 at 14:59:26 (UTC)

Craig: Apologies for the comment! I was under the impression that there was some form of editing - I was obviously wrong.

Ken Fernie, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, November 15, 2004 at 14:44:37 (UTC)

Christina
I remember all the places you mention in Kitwe. Also swimming in the storm drains. We used to see how many times we could jump the drain before we fell in. We also used to throw sticks in the water and see who’s stick would win. The Indian tailors was where I got my first suit made. Remember the Strand café? We always ended up there after the pics at the Astra cinema on Saturday morning for steak egg and chips before heading for the Rhokana cinema in the afternoon.
I used to box for Nkana boxing club, probably before your friends ran it.

cheers

Nicky Kontou, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, November 15, 2004 at 14:10:58 (UTC)

Craig (Arthur and Heather),
Thanks for the feedback regarding member suspension from the site. As far as I’m concerned, the subject has been well and truly laid to rest.

Hi Dessi,
Glad to hear Drew’s coaching is paying dividends. Ask Drew about when we used to shoot Clays in Stellenbosch in the early 80’s. Man – we really had to shoot quick to break the clays before they dived over a vibracrete wall! I still have a clipping (somewhere) from the Eikestad News. Regulars were: Ed Knowles (Kitwe – used to race motorbikes there), Drew Harrington, Bill Swemmer (used to coach Drew in those days), William Eliot and myself (BH). We’re missing you and Francois at the club!

Hello Beth,
That’s tough about the FSB accreditation. Are you planning a re-union? Will it be a GNR bash, a BH Bash or a KGV1 re-union? Had lunch at Scrumpy Jacks yesterday with owner - Patrick Barron - and Mike and Paula Barron, plus an old mutual friend. Ironically, the previous weekend, the Roy family came up in conversation; then you mention you met Biddie.

Maxie,
Thanks for the email. Today, in Cape Town, it’s a perfect day to ‘touch the sun’ for you. A few months ago I planted a Granadilla seedling and it’s now about 4’ high with one lonely fruit on it. The wind was a bit vigorous at budset time. My Cape Lemon’s taken well. Do you remember that type of lemon? The one you can eat the peel - with a dash of salt on it? CT’s population has experienced an exponential growth over the last few decades, and the city elders (dorp dodders?) woke up a bit late – resulting in us now having strict water restrictions in place.

Regards

Charles Cartmill, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, November 15, 2004 at 12:14:33 (UTC)

Johnny , Thanks for the lovelly card, your friend IS a clever man....the painting is wonderful....I am looking forward to painting on my holiday.........no kids, no pets, just me all day long........so no excuses !!!

Ali Key, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, November 15, 2004 at 10:41:17 (UTC)

Thanks Craig for the links....getting the alerts is a great idea..pity in WA we can't see the aurora borealis or the southern lights (Australis?) bit dozy with the flu here......but the outback sky is something else........probably akin to the African sky...........

Ali Key, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, November 15, 2004 at 10:38:05 (UTC)

Looking for Jill Finlay. Last known in Ndola. Lived on Broadway. Parents had a hotel. Has a half brother Paul Makovich. We went to school together, would like to make contact. My maiden name was Muriel Blackstock

Muriel Eastman, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, November 15, 2004 at 09:04:39 (UTC)

From Esther..

"In the old days he would be tried for treason"

But this is the 21st century....

So, whatever happened to ‘I don’t agree with you, but I’ll defend to the death your right to say it?

This is why I live in North America and not Africa....

Peter Dielissen, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, November 15, 2004 at 09:00:48 (UTC)

For the smilers any one anti joke just skip.

Two nuns strolling around the quadrangle in the centre of the nunnery when a young kitten runs in front of them one of them catches it and they are stood cuddling it when the mother superior appears and said what have you got there? they tell her it is a pussy that has oviously been ill treated and can they keep it, she said is it a male or female?male they tell her she said have it castrated and we will see what it is like after a few days, they have it cut and several days later take it back to the mother superior and ask can we keep it? the mother says it appears to have settled down with you so it can stay on one condition that I can name it, sure mam they said go ahead and name him , she says ok his name will be tommorow, they said it is a strange name for a cat why tommorow? she said because tommorow never comes.

Johnny, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, November 15, 2004 at 06:49:51 (UTC)

"The Witches of Tyende"?

Johnny has asked me to post this picture, with the above title, of the three organising the Tytherington Tiyende. From left to right, Linda Hayes (née Dore), Tina Magee, and Fiona Gayther.

Picture of Linda Hayes (née Dore), Tina Magee, and Fiona Gayther.

Craig Hartnett, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Monday, November 15, 2004 at 06:45:06 (UTC)

Linda

I have no intentions of seeing Fahrenheit 9/11. I did however see the one on gun control and thought that was quite interesting - but Fahrenheit 9/11???- there is no way I am going to see that one.

In the old days he would be tried for treason.

Esther Pettersson, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, November 15, 2004 at 05:18:53 (UTC)

Tina,

I too get aurora borealis alerts by e-mail and have the routed to my cell phone. Have had quite a few alerts the last few days, but we have had cloud cover here so I haven't seen them. The alerts I get are a little closer to home so are more useful. The monitor is located in Walla Walla, Washington State. Their Web site is at www.keteu.org/~haunma/aurora and you can subscribe at www.keteu.org/mailman/listinfo/aurora-northwest.

Craig Hartnett, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Monday, November 15, 2004 at 05:18:31 (UTC)

Esther:

I have to stand up and be counted here and agree with you about scuzz bag, Michael Moore. It is a pity that people have been taken in by his garbage because he plays on the one basic make up of us all.. our desire to trust.

Whatever your politics, before thinking that this person has opened the eyes of the world about Bush, Iraq, Columbine and gun control, etc., take the time to do some research on him. And if you have taken the time to view Fahrenheit 9/11, I would recommend you take the time to view FahrenHYPE 9/11 too. Here are a couple of websites you may want to browse through, although there are many out there that expose him for what he truly is. bowlingfortruth.com or moorelies.com.

All that's missing from his "documovies" are the smoke and mirrors.

Before I get stoned by the crowd, I just wanted to add one more comment. We have no draft in America. Nobody has been dragged kicking and screaming into the services over here. Nobody fighting over in Iraq at the moment was forced to go, by Bush or anyone else. Joining the army, navy, marine corps, airforce, etc., is completely voluntary. Oh, and a nifty way to get your college tuition paid for. Like my hubby (who spent 8 yrs in the navy) says, "Why is there such a fuss about people actually having to serve their country when they voluntarily sign up in the first place? What did they expect to happen when they volunteered?"

If you are about to ask me what I would do if my sons had signed up and then had to go to war, I would tell you honestly that while it would naturally terrify me and I would not want them to go, it would be a choice they made as men when they signed up... to serve their country if called upon. Men of honour, courage and integrity (or women for that matter) will have the balls to see a commitment through. Those that signed up for the free ride on the many opportunities the military offers will be the ones who will be playing the lead role in the next Michael Moore masterpiece of deception.

Linda Hayes, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, November 15, 2004 at 05:14:39 (UTC)

David, on bad language

Since you have "officially" referred your objection to bad language to site management, I'll officially respond on behalf of site management. You and others have made your feelings known to John and (better yet) you've provided your reasons; I applaud anyone who makes their feelings known here, either for or against John, just as I applaud anyone who makes their feelings known with respect to jokes about people missing arms and/or legs. We have no "official" position on the use of language or the telling of jokes (good, bad, tasteless or not) on this message board beyond the aforementioned (this is a recording) references to polite behaviour.

Colourful Peter's links

If you don't want to have to reload the message board each time you have finished looking at one of Peter's links, hold down the shift key while clicking a link and the page will open in a new window.

Peter,

Did you see Sam McGee down there on Lake Lebarge?

Ken Fernie,

I can't let the following statement go unchallenged and unclarified: "I'm really surprised that your offering was allowed to be posted at all!" There is no moderation on this message board of individual posts in advance of their being posted.

Craig Hartnett, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Monday, November 15, 2004 at 05:12:16 (UTC)

Pete

Just loved the skyscraper (I bet it can scrape some snow skies) and miss the full glory of the northern lights. Even in north Texas, if the sunspot activity is SUPER heavy we can actually catch a tiny vestige of the northern lights. Right around midnight at those very special times you catch a misty white glow right on the northern horizon. You'd miss it completely if you didn't know what it was. None of the iridescent shifting coloured curtains overhead that you get near the arctic.

There was some good sunspot activity as recently as November 10th with increased auroral activity expected on the 11th and 12th for those of you to the north. I'm signed up for auroral alert emails from the University of Alaska at Fairbanks just for grins and nostalgia for the displays I used to see in Iceland. http://www.gi.alaska.edu/mailman/listinfo/gse-aa
for the interested.

Tina Magee, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, November 15, 2004 at 05:09:31 (UTC)

Eve

I have to agree with RH regarding Michael Moore - I am surprised he has managed to stay out of jail.

Esther Pettersson, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, November 15, 2004 at 03:31:56 (UTC)

John Parish: I must agree with David Hoyle. This is not the site for this kind of humor. Our adult kids and our grandkids look forward to visiting this site - I'm really surprised that your offering was allowed to be posted at all! Take this as a slap on the wrist from your old pal from Lusaka Theater Club.

Ken Fernie, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, November 15, 2004 at 01:21:20 (UTC)

David Hoyle (& Ayub)

I'm with you!

I found the two recent postings by John Parish very revealing but mostly insulting!

A beloved member of my family is proudly Thai and the most beautiful person you could meet so I objected strongly to his 'Sayings'.

As for the Truck and Car Maintenance posting - most people wouldn't put their names to having read - never mind repeated those things...

Sue Coughlan, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Monday, November 15, 2004 at 01:16:13 (UTC)

Funny we all turned up and worked at Bancroft I worked there as well. I worked there remember'd all the water that was pumped out. It was said the be the worst in the world. When I looked at the Geology of the place I saw why.

Duggie I too nearly had web'd feet working there as my Boet Glen. Mabe you rember the Tregenza family that lived there Bob did house repairs for the Mine. I kind of took to his daughter. I wonder where they are now. In England I bet.

Chris

Christopher Drake, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, November 15, 2004 at 00:53:10 (UTC)

I wish that I could go to the Tiger tournament....good times. If anyone meets up with my cousin, Dane McCabe, he always goes - tell him Laura says 'Howzit'.
Keep up the good work guys, I know that I dont know too many of you, but 'listening' to you 'praating kuk' is wonderful

Love always

Laura Bannister

Laura Bannister, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 14, 2004 at 23:23:12 (UTC)

Note of interest: Firstly
For several years I have been interested in getting a Mufulira rugby shirt with the Muf emblem etc.
I recently went onto the 'GNR shirts' link where I contacted Bill McDonald ( no relation) who has his own embroidery business in Canada. After a short phone call about my interest, he said he could supply the rugby club shirt in the blue/white hoops, with the muf crest on the left breast and a Zambian flag on one of the sleeves. Shirts can be requested short/long sleeve for a small altering charge.
These shirts will cost $89.95 canadian dollars with an extra $15 for the flag on the sleeve ,total $105, In british money thats about £45.
If you want an original rugby shirt in the UK its going to cost you £50 anyway.
Here you get a piece of Muf memorablia for less than that.
He will consider other badges and designs as long as there is enough interest in it to make the costly embroidery process worthwhile.
If any of you out there would be interested in a similar design to mine let me know asap and I can get the bal rolling.
Secondly:
Does Zambia currently have a rugby team and if they do does anyone know what the Zambian rugby team logo is.
I would appreciate quick replies as I can't wait for my new rugby shirt.

Thanks for reading this

Mufuliramark, Scotland [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 14, 2004 at 22:16:01 (UTC)

A bleddy great big elephant story.

Sorry for those who have been subjected to this one before, but it was posted such a long time ago, I thought it would be okay to repost it.

Do you remember in primary school, we used to be divided up into sports houses? I went to Kitwe Primary School as some of you know. I believe I was the only student who had my own cane and black-mark ledger in the headmaster's office.. grin. Anyway, we had four houses. Luapula, Itawa, Malima and Kasonga. I was in Kasonga - green house. I was very athletic when I was younger and a little (okay a lot..) bigger than some of the other kids by the time I was 12. Truth is, I could run the pants off most boys at that age. (Never quite grew out of that habit either. Ta da, hello!)

We had sports day one fine Saturday. It was down to the last girl's race - the relay. I was running the last leg. Our team was in last place and I was chomping at the bit to get going. I took off, teeth full of bugs as the wind rushed against me and down over my svelte body and gazelle-like legs.. oops sorry. Got carried away in fantasy for a bit... No, seriously. Remember how the parents would line up 10 deep behind the ropes along the running track and cheer their heads off for the kids? My dad was a little squatty English man, all of 5' 2" tall. There he was, pressed up to the ropes, next to this 6' 4" Afrikaner, whose daughter was on another team.

My dad told the story like this. It has become a family favourite. I quickly gained on 2 of the 3 other girls ahead of me, and caught up with the girl in front, just as we coincidentally were right in front of the two fathers. As I edged ahead, the Afrikaner turns to my dad and says "Yirrah man, what a bleddy great big elephant that girl is." My dad rose to his full 5' 2" and retorted back, "Hey, I'll have you know that's my Linda you're insulting!" The Afrikaner looked down the track again, scratched his head and replied, "Ag, sistock man, but she's got a lekker stride, though!"

I laughed my head off when my dad told me that. Sorry for the terrible Afrikaans in this story, but I'm "Afrikaans challenged" as they say here in the USA.

Chris Cotton if you are reading this.. eat my shorts! Ha! Ha!

Linda Hayes, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 14, 2004 at 21:44:40 (UTC)

David Hoyle,

I didn't realise what a sensitive soul you are David, a few swear words are quite bad when posted on an open board I agree, but jokes about people with no arms and legs? tut tut, not very good form at all. One could imagine some people being quite ****ed off at that eh.

Cheers

Mike Fancourt, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 14, 2004 at 21:39:49 (UTC)

Desiree
I only stayed in Bancroft for a few months. Timber Woods was my neighbour in a block of 4 or 5 garden flats. I did not know him well but just remembered him becase of his unusual name. I may well have seen your Dad but cannot recall.

I was working for AMCO mining contractors doing cementation work underground. It involved drilling long holes ahead of tunnel development and pumping them full of a cement solution to fill up all the fissures ahead so that tunnel development could proceed safely. Some of these fissures were massive and held millions of gallons of water and if a tunnel had been blasted into one of them without cementation the resulting flood would inundated the mine and killed many people.

We used to drill with 2 or 3 heavy long hole machines mounted on the cross bar 6 inch pipe H frames. These were tightened into place between the hanging and foot walls with heavy duty screw jacks turned by 6 foot gwala's (pinch bars) until the 9 by 3 timber blocks at top and bottom were crunched against the rock. In other words they were realy set up very solidly. The 1 inch thick drill steel we used was in about 3 foot lengths that screwed together to extend the line as drilling progressed. When we had drilled the first 2 metres we used to firmly grout a 6 foot long 2" diameter galvanized pipe into the rock with a heavy heavy duty valve on the end. We then used to drill through this (open) valve and pipe until the water pressure pushing the drill line back was more that the compressed air pressure pushing it in. Then we would carefully remove the drill steel, unscrewing them section by section, close the valve, connect up the cement pipes, open the valve, and signal to the chaps on the surface pump station to start pumping a cement solution down.

Some holes dried up after 50 or 100 bags of cement were pumped in other took a couple of thousand bags. We then carried on drilling until we had reached 120 ft ahead. After everything was finished the rockbreaker would come in and advance the tunnel 100 feet and then we would start again. While we were pumping cement the drills continued drilling more holes. What a terrible noise and you could hardy see your hand in front of your face with all the water vapour that the machines were blasting out. Like a scene from hell. Water, water everywhere, dripping from the hanging wall, gushing out of small fissures in the foot and side walls and blasting back out of the drill holes as we were drilling. We were soaked to the skin the whole shift. Oilskins did not help. If you wore them you were soon soaked in your own sweat.

One day we drilled into an underground lake. The water pressure was so terrific that it pushed the whole drill line and machine back, bending the centre 6 inch cross pipe. We all jumped out of the way and watched as the H frame was torn out of place and thrown back like a toy with all the 3 drills. The total weight must have been well over a ton. The drill steel snapped like twigs and shards of steel went flying along the tunnel like shrapnel propelled by the jet of water which spat out the rest of the drill steel as if it was spaghetti. The jet of water blasted straight out off the hole for about 50 meters before losing velocity. Luckily no one was injured, and we got back to work.

We managed to close the valve with a 36 inch bobbojan spanner and luckily the pipe held in the rock. That hole took more than 2500 bags of cement to seal off the fissure.

You will understand why I did not stay too long on that job.

Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 14, 2004 at 21:15:03 (UTC)

Mangoes,

The best place to eat a mango is in the bath - they are so juicy and delish and you just need to suck that fragrant flesh off the pip - and it's so messy!

Pappy - keep me posted and I really want to see Shirley again, so it's going to be great!

Linda - just try harder, girl!

Doug - I didn't know that you drank Klippies! You only had tea when you visited me - or do you just keep it for mourning when the Bokke crash? That's a lot of Klippies! Ha! Ha! Next week should be horrible - buy in a case-lot of Klippies! I'll phone you after the game and we can have a dop together!

Love, Jilly

Jill Aplin, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 14, 2004 at 20:43:12 (UTC)

John,
Now John with a surname like yours you should know better. David's suggestion about using ### and such like is good advice! You been reading the News of the World today???

Doug,
The spice Ajmo is an excellent for the relief of stomach ache and indigestion problems. Take about half a teaspoonful, chew and down them with or without water... works a treat!

I think the mangoes on trees in Southern Africa at this time of the year will be green ..ideal for making pickles! I wonder if the mango trees alongside Independence Avenue. Lusaka are still there! As kids we used to nick a few mangoes off them!

Ayub Ismail Zumla, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 14, 2004 at 19:57:20 (UTC)

Doug, If you lived in an apartment next to Timber Woods then you would have known my Dad Peewee (nickname for "short"!!). My Dad and Timber were great friends. I was only a child at the time but remember Timber very well. That was in Bancroft (Chililabombwe now). Don't remember your name at all. What did you do while in Bancroft? Have asked my mother who grew up there and she also doesn't remember your name. Are we talking about the same Timber Woods? Can't have been many of them out there.....!!! As I said, Timber was a good friend of my Dads so I am sure you must have known him. Please... let me know. Thanks.
Desi

Charles,
Drew says hi! He is doing a great job coaching me. My scores are going up and making the guys worried!!!! Going to shoot at Riva in Durban next weekend. Wish me luck. Miss you..... please come and visit sometime.
Desi

Desiree Van der Spuy, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 14, 2004 at 19:12:40 (UTC)

Northerners...

I lived in Whitehorse, Yukon for 10+ years until a few years ago.

Many a winter day the temperature does not go any higher that minus 40C. The coldest I ever experienced was was minus 54C.

Here is a photo of Whitehorse at minus 40C...

http://www.worldcityphotos.org/Canada/CAN-YT-Whitehorse-NatlGeographic1.jpg

And the same street in July...

http://www.gov.yk.ca/photos/communities/whitehorse.jpg

There is 24 hours of daylight during May, June and July. The midnight sun....

http://www.spiritnorth.yk.ca/images/midnight_on_laberge-june21.jpg

And yes, just like New York City there are skyscrapers in Whitehorse...

http://www.steinborn.org/gifs/alaska/whitehorse-skyscraper.JPG

Something I NEVER saw in Broken Hill were Sundogs...

http://www.explorenorth.com/library/graphics/sundog1.jpg

Or Northern Lights (notice all the stars in the sky just like Broken Hill)...

http://www3.sympatico.ca/j-k.butler/nlights.jpg

And this is the entertainment at Boones Bar II in Whitehorse...

http://www.canada-incentives.co.uk/images/c2c/yukon2_FranticFollies.jpg

Peter Dielissen, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 14, 2004 at 18:19:37 (UTC)

Bob Gillies ,
When are you coming over?

Pappy Papier, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 14, 2004 at 18:17:42 (UTC)

Recent posting by John Parish.

John,

I believe I know you from Kabwe but when I visited your details held they showed zero. If you would like people to make contact then please give a few details.

Is it possible to put a couple of ## in a word rather than stating the f###ing obvious. This Message board is visited by persons of all ages.

We all know the words but this is exactly the sort of bad language that I personally object to. I now officially refer this objection to the attention of the GNR Board of Management as I don't appreciate seeing this sort of language on the GNR.

PS. If anybody (CT) is trying to contact me privately please go to my webpage www.davidphotoman.com and send me mail, via the email link.

David Hoyle, Oman [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Sunday, November 14, 2004 at 18:16:08 (UTC)

Jill,
I think you know my mate Tony Edwards,they live on an island in Siavonga,he says they have a house and a rondavil that they are ratteling around in,he is coming over for his 25th wedding anniversary,so will ask him when he comes over,I`m sure my boet will be all right with this,will let you and Otto know as soon as I hear from him.
The Aussies also got wapped by Great(tongue in cheack)Britain at rugby league.
Henri still stays in Kitwe,so leave it with me and we will see what we can do about going to the Copperbelt.
I do not go anywhere with out Shirley.

Pappy Papier, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 14, 2004 at 18:09:46 (UTC)

Northerners....

Take a peek at these EBay items:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=13883&item=3940137467&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=13883&item=3940490548&rd=1

And Broken Hill stuff:

http://www.global-technologies.net/ShopSite/VP754_I.html

And nothing ever changes, eh...

http://www.fascinatingearth.com/The%20Man%20Who%20Died%20of%20a%20Toothache.htm

Peter Dielissen, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 14, 2004 at 17:37:11 (UTC)

HGV LORRY DRIVERS HIGHWAY CODE

When should you use your headlights? To warn your mates of a speed trap.
When do you overtake on the left? When the bastard in front won't move.
What documents do you take on the road? Daily Mirror, Sun, Playboy and Forum.
When must you stop? To have a piss, leg over or tot of brandy.
Where should you not park? Outside the house of the tart you are screwing.
What do you expect to see on a rural road? Rural tarmac.
How many types of pedestrian crossing are there? Two - those who do and those who don't.
What is the procedure for overtaking on the motorway? Foot hard down, eyes shut and smile.
When should you use the fast lane on a motorway? When you are going home on a promise.
What do you do if you breakdown on a motorway? Leave the fucking thing and hitch a lift home.
What does the yellow box junction mean? They have run out of white paint.
What do broken yellow lines in the road mean? Careless navvies.
What does the highway code say about tyres? Use only round ones.
When can you cross double white lines? After 9 lagers, 2 vodkas and a whiskey.
How do you avoid drowsiness on the motorway? Finger your hitch hiker.
What must you check before leaving a building site? You have enough wood under your sheet for a new kitchen unit.
What do yellow lines on the side of the road mean? Chinese take-away.
Where do you place the hazard triangle when broken down? Up your transport managers arse.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A truck driver stopped to pick up a female hitchhiker wearing REALLY short shorts.
"Say, what's your name, mister?" she inquired, after she climbed up in the truck.
"It's Snow ... Roy Snow," he answered, "and what's yours?"
"Me, I'm June ... June Hansen," she said.
After a short while she asked, "Hey, why do you keep sizing me up with those sidelong glances?"
"Can you imagine what it might be like," he countered, ....having eight inches of Snow in June?"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rules for CAR MAINTENANCE

Give Her a good Going Over at regular intervals.
Grease Her NIPPLES well.
When Running Her in, break Her in GENTLY!
Her CLUTCH Should not be too 'Hairy'.
Wax Her BODY all over.
If you should strike Her REAR END – say 'Sorry'
Check Her Load Bearing capacity, too much weight can impede her, PERFORMANCE
If She loses Her 'SPARK', she may be suffering from high TENSION troubles.
Never take Her too fast up the 'Straight'...warm her up GENTLY first
Keep Fingertip Control at all times.
Her 'BIG ENDS' should be kept Well Oiled!
Don't leave Your TOOL hanging about.
Give her a Re-bore when necessary... and a Good Grind -In!
If She sags when Climbing give Her a Boost, and see if She's got any GOOD POINTS!
Check Her BODY for Blemishes -and Touch Her Up where necessary.
Remember – IF YOU CAN’T GET IT IN FIRST…Just wiggle it about, its bound to slip in sooner or later

John Parish, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 14, 2004 at 14:54:19 (UTC)

In the Sultanate of Oman the end of Ramadan was announced last night and today is our first day of Eid (holiday). The ending of Ramadan is dependant on sighting the new moon and that's why the Eid can start on different days even in the same area.

This Eid is one of the important ones during the year and usually is quite long. Eight days have been announced for Government employees and 5 days for the private sector. I believe Qatar hit the record number of days given with a 12 day holiday for Government employees.

Although I have posted previously about alcohol and the Gulf, all countries in the area have different liquor interpretations during the Holy month of Ramadan. In in Oman all public and private bars are closed for the full 30 days. Tourists can only be serviced alcoholic beverages in their rooms. All bottle stores are also closed and it is illegal to carry alcohol around during this period. This does tend to result in most villas holding massive stocks, as it would be a serious situation to run out of the golden nectar with no chance of replenishment.

Our hotel bars will be heaving once again by tomorrow lunch time and yes, bacon sarnies are available with one's lager.

For the first time in 7 months the day time temperature has fallen under 30°C, it feels pleasantly refreshing.

David Hoyle, Oman [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Sunday, November 14, 2004 at 13:55:19 (UTC)

Doug,
France beat the Wallabies in France yesterday - and by a greater margin than the Irish beat the Springboks. The Irish beat the Boks by 5 - the cost of the try that Honiss awarded to O'Gara whilst the Boks were being "talked to". The Irish played well, but that try was a shocker. It was in the 22nd minute - who knows what might have happened if that was not allowed?

Pappy,

The sport was rugby, BTW!

Do you know any good places Otto and I can stay in Siavonga - and this time I am definitely going to include a Copperbelt trip! Is Shirley coming too?

Ndalima,

Many of us on this board do a great deal to assist Zambia. I think you owe the GNR in general an apology!

Jilly

Jill Aplin, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 14, 2004 at 13:25:55 (UTC)

Doug,
Thymol seeds are also referred to as ajmo or ajwine seeds. Some people also call them wormo. If you have any problems locating them, visit your nearest Indian supplier, which should be able to assist you.

Ali Key, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 14, 2004 at 12:35:50 (UTC)

Nsamwa,
All good things come to those that wait,it is the Zambian way,I hear from my contacts that Zambia is on the up,and definately the place to be in the future.Maybe some one with your fire and enthusiasim should think of moving back and opening an office over there,then you can keep us up to date on the progress made at home.
I am thinking of going back myself,but first I am going on holiday to recce the place.
Hey what about the Bok`s?I told you if they did not up thier game they would not take the Grand slam,too many silly mistakes,Who beat the Aussies,and at what sport?

Pappy Papier, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 14, 2004 at 12:18:39 (UTC)

Doug...thanks! Think Eid is today in SA.

Ayub Ismail Zumla, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 14, 2004 at 11:50:25 (UTC)

Doug,
Ajwine?...think you mean..ajowan/ajwan..celery or thymol seeds.

Yunus,
Eid Mubarak to you and to all! Watch your weight with all those sweetmeats!

Cricket...
Next World Cup is being held in the West Indies but the USA's bid to hold some games in Florida have been scuppered by the ICC!

Football..
Arsenal 5 Tottenham 4..what a game!

Some scores from the past:
NR 1 Tanzania 0 (3/7/64
Nyasaland 0 NR 5 (4/7/64
NR 4 Malawi 1 (20/7/64
Malawi 0 Zambia 3 (4/7/66)

Ayub Ismail Zumla, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 14, 2004 at 11:48:22 (UTC)

Linda
President of the world? Sounds good, I will be able to expand my harem exponentially. Just hang on, while I ask my therapist if they will give me leave from the funny farm.

Johnny
The Aussies got thrashed in rugby? By who? Please tell us more. We have been so busy crying in our Klippies and Koke over what the Irish did to the Boks that we, or at least I missed it. I did see that England beat Canada 70 to 0. Sorry Bill, but I did advise you to send your ice-hockey team instead. New Zealand beat Italy 59 to 10.

Johnny again
You seem to have some competition over there. DatingDirect.com has banned ex-miner Clive Worth, 55, because he has had 115 dates in 5 years and ended up having sex with most of them. They believe he shows lack of commitment. Angry Clive said he would sign up with another dating service and carry on until he was 80.

John Parish
You naughty boy! A man after my own heart! Thailand is incredible and I love it. I would have loved to have gone with that Nchanga Rugby tour to Thailand back in the early 70’s or late 60’s. Must have been some real interesting scrums, with hookers on both teams and all around.

Mwizenge
Go man go! Or go mango. Ready steady mango. Sounds like the Jamaican Olympics.

Instant Mango pickle

5 cups peeled (optional) and sliced green mangos
4 tsp salt
2 Tsp chilli powder
1 tsp toasted and ground ajwine (What is this? Ayub can you help?)
2 tsp ginger paste
¼ cup vinegar
¼ cup golden syrup.

Combine all the ingredients and mix well to coat mangos with spices.

Beth (Elspeth)
I am happy to hear you will be coming to the Kariba reunion. Should be the best yet. They used to have a board in South Africa where you could apply to have your overseas educational certificate evaluated and be awarded a Matric Exemption. Surely this must still be in operation. How else can they evaluate immigrant’s foreign certificates.

Ron
Good poetry but in a somewhat somber mood.

Chinyerezi
I am trying to find a country where the don’t celebrate Xmas but so far no luck. Even in Buddhist Thailand Xmas is a big thing. I was premature with Diwali (Hindi) or Dipawali (Tamil) so let me gazump everyone and say, “Happy Happy Happy Kisimusi to all the Bwanas and their Mistresses and their Madums.” (May the 2 never meet). BTW since 24th October 1964 everybody is a Bwana or Madum including Bwana Ndalama.

Glen on holiday in Maui
You lucky bugger!

Chinyerezi
Nice to see you posting again. No comments on the rugby?

Ayub and Yunus
Happy Eid Mubarak.

Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 14, 2004 at 11:13:56 (UTC)

Ayub and all muslim members: HAPPY EID MUBARAK

Yunus Badat, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Sunday, November 14, 2004 at 10:58:37 (UTC)

Linda
I was not being sarky. Far from it.
I liked your musings.and was being complimentary

Mike Slement, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 14, 2004 at 10:39:43 (UTC)

Just another little verse to Mwizenge's poem.

And now to the doctors
I must go
To check the sores all round my gob
Im pleasd they stay in one position
I'd hate to get them round my nno---------------------se

Johnny, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 14, 2004 at 10:33:36 (UTC)

Rashida Bobat

Photo's of Shiwa Ngandu are on this site

http://clairepowell9176.fotopic.net/c107008.html

hope it is what you are looking for
Cheers Peter

Peter Goodhew, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 14, 2004 at 10:26:24 (UTC)

The one I'm in shock about was the Irish/Springbok game.

June

June Dobson, New Zealand [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 14, 2004 at 09:06:57 (UTC)

June the girl Alix, the gloating the slaughter of the Aussie rugby team yesterday who every one is reticent to talk about, maybe you are all still in shock. love Johnny.

Johnny, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 14, 2004 at 08:59:47 (UTC)

Johnny - who are you referring to?

June

June Dobson, New Zealand [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 14, 2004 at 08:40:47 (UTC)

"THE 10 MOST COMMON THAI SAYINGS AND THEIR ENGLISH MEANINGS"
Hello sexy man = (pay my bar fine)
How long you stay Thailand = (how much money can I get out of you)
I only work here 1 week = (I am a lying bitch )
I love you long time = (I will love you until your money runs out)
You happy I happy = (I'm happy if you pay)
I send money to my mama = (I give money to my Thai boyfriend)
I miss you when you go = (I miss your money when you go)
When you come back Thailand = (when can I get some more money out of you)
I wait for you come back Thailand = (I wait for my next bar fine)

"10 MORE COMMON THAI SAYINGS AND THEIR ENGLISH MEANINGS"
My friend have gold too much = (when are you going to buy me some)
Can you give me money for doctor = (tonight I play cards)
Want to come my village = (my sister needs a new roof)
Tomorrow I go Bangkok = (someone else pay my bar fine already)
Today my birthday = (I was born on a Monday, today is Monday)
Where you stay, I go with you no bar fine = (it's 3 a.m. and I'm skint)
I will write to you = (my bank details are)
2 drinks and I'm drunk = (when we go hotel I sleep)
You go fishing alone, sea make me sick = (good! I'll do some short times)
That man not good heart = (he only gave me 500 baht last time

John Parish, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 14, 2004 at 08:35:27 (UTC)

I was just checking how wide awake you were.Johnny.

Not very.

Johnny, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 14, 2004 at 08:12:34 (UTC)

Halleluja one of my favourite girls is back on line. Johnny.

Johnny, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 14, 2004 at 07:39:20 (UTC)

I have had a quick skeg at the board this morning but do not see any words of congratulations to the English cricket team for there magnificent victory yesterday, you must not sulk to long. Johnny.

Johnny, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 14, 2004 at 07:35:29 (UTC)

It is not my intention to either criticize or interfere with any charitable projects in or concerning Luanshya, but rather assist where I can, or monitor these projects for the donors that are involved.

I live in Luanshya and have been here since 1941, and over the years I have been involved with countless charities, organizations, projects, and personal commitments for the benefit of Luanshya and the people that live here.
I am not looking for any praise or recognition for the contributions I have made, however it gives me great personal satisfaction to have been part of it and still part of any future projects.

Theresa Lungu has been in touch with me directly regarding her various projects, and I will endeavor to assist her in any way that I can,

Regards,

Reg Hughes,

Luanshya, Zambia.

Reginald Hughes, Zambia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 14, 2004 at 07:30:05 (UTC)

Nsamwa Ndalima

The tone of your letter offends me, as does your statement that because you didn't get the response you wanted, the people on this site are "negative and horribly evil". Just who do you think you are?

If you're that concerned about Zambia and its problems, why don't you give up your very good job in New York City (your words) and go back to Zambia to help out and try to make a difference?

If you can't treat members of this site with respect during your postings, I would suggest you say nothing. It does your "cause" no good at all. That huge chip on your shoulder needs to be removed too!!!

June M. Dobson

June Dobson, New Zealand [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 14, 2004 at 06:59:07 (UTC)

Mwizenge Thank you for that wonderful poem, I could taste that unique flavour of that wonderful yellow fruit.........nothing better than having the senses enveloped in that Mango smell........oh and another smell is Guavas.......mmmmmmmmmmm
I am counting the days until I head for the northwest....I looked up on the web and the weekend of the Tytherington Tyende Broome holds it's 3 day mango festival..yahhoooooooo.........
I will be thinking of you all

Ali Key, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 14, 2004 at 05:36:21 (UTC)

I miss the sweet scent of those first rains in Zambia. I also miss the mango season. This is dedicated to the mango.

The Mango Fruit

The tell-tale signs
Of the Mango fruit genesis
Small white flowers
Bloom on the tree
In the cold month of July
In Savannah Zambia
Barely four months after
The last delicious Mango fruit
Small and big insects buzz
Feed on the sweet nectar

The bitter acidic taste
Of the raw Mango fruit
In the hot dry month
Of October Independence Day
The city shanty compound
Markets choked with
Unripe Mango fruits
How crude and untimely?

Come the month of December
Rains quench the parched earth
Three whole weeks
Before Christmas Day
Bright colored birds
Fly in tall green grass
In the foggy early morning
Sing sweet melodious songs

It is time to plant seeds
For a good harvest
This season
It is time for
A million plants, insects
And Mango trees to explode
With life

Small mangoes, big mangoes
Named Dudu
Short mango trees, tall mango trees
Wild mangoes with bland taste
Garden whole golden yellow
Ripe mangoes
With green and yellow patches
Mango fruits ripe everywhere
On the ground and dangling
Beckoning humans, insects, animals
Alike invitingly on tree limbs

No more empty bellies
For now during the harsh
Hunger season named zinja
People, birds, insects, ants, flies
Of a thousand shapes, sizes, and colors
Rejoice
The sweet smell of the mango
It is in the air
In the house
And in dreams

The thought and dreams
Of a thousand sweet delicious
Different tastes of
The mango draws
Tears to the eye
Many fond memories
Taste buds titillated with
Unfulfilled fantasies
Of the sweet juicy mango
The bite squeezes
Yellow juices drip quickly
Down the arm soiling
Child’s only Sunday shirt
Mother chastises
Oh! what to do with stubborn
Yellow stains

The dull mango
The sweet mango
The juicy mango
The wild mango
The bitter mango
A thousand tastes, flavors
And colors in between
Oh! what a joy it is
To experience
The titillating taste of a
Million mango tastes
Oh! What a joy it is
To be alive
To live another day
To savor another mango

Mwizenge Tembo, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Sunday, November 14, 2004 at 05:09:20 (UTC)

Ndalima,
Your anger, frustration, and disappointment about board members showing little concern for helping Zambia is inconsistent with my experiences with board members. The vast majority of them lived in Zambia for a long time and love Zambia and Zambians of all colors dearly. Of the 1800 members, may be about 10 to 15 regularly post messages. Of this small percentage, only a handful may post what you may characterize as negative messages. This tiny fraction of about 0.8%, do not represent the majority. Many of them are a silent majority. Many Americans are kind hearted. It will be very difficult for them or anybody for that matter to donate anything when you insult them.

Many of us help people back home as much as we can. For example last year, my wife and I raised $700.00 for a village school fund. I have direct knowledge that in rural Zambia, a child needs about $20.00 per year to buy school uniform, pencils, and books. We send about $20.00 to a child each January at the beginning of the school year. This year we started with 10 children. Infact, I may have received an e-mail about helping Luanshya about a month ago. I don’t know whether it was from you. I visited Luanshya in 1970 and again in 1976. I remember it as a lovely town. That’s a very good cause.

Mwizenge Tembo, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Sunday, November 14, 2004 at 05:01:07 (UTC)

Hi Doug,

Did you note the "compulsive!!!!" and not "impulsive" - ooooops - Hope Mrs. Ledingham doesn't know about the GNR site!!

See you at the next reunion - I'll bring the photos I have of Francois bungi jumping. Did you read the article in the paper of how unsafe the Falls bridge is nowadays! Quite scary!

Maeve B- spoke to Biddy Roy (now Edwards) on Friday. She's been in Johannesburg ever since leaving Zambia - am meeting up with her next week and will hopefully get her onto the site.

Charlie C - everyone's on at me for another Broken Hill reunion. Do you ever get up this way? I've given up insurance as I wasn't FAIS compliant by 1 October so would have the time now to arrange one. (My GCE "O" levels aren't accepted here - can you believe it!!) I was told late in September, that I either had to write Matric or write an exam the following Monday - at my age decided to do neither so am now a lady of leisure! Let me know how you feel.

Wayne - your silence is deafening???

Have a relaxing Sunday everyone.

Elspeth Lloyd, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 14, 2004 at 04:32:21 (UTC)

November - A time for Members to Re member the Dis membered and the oh so many to whom we owe our privilege of Membership of the GNR and our Lives.

As Philip Pain has already kindly posted some well remembered poems of Remembrance, I post below some not so well remembered timeless verses.

Best wishes and good health to all our members and non members alike.

Ron

"ELEGY WRITTEN IN A COUNTRY CHURCH-YARD"

The curfew tolls the knell of parting day,
The lowing herd winds slowly o'er the lea,
The ploughman homeward plods his weary way,
And leaves the world to darkness and to me.

Now fades the glimmering landscape on the sight,
And all the air a solemn stillness holds,
Save where the beetle wheels his droning flight,
And drowsy tinklings lull the distant folds:

Save that from yonder ivy-mantled tower
The moping owl does to the moon complain
Of such as, wandering near her secret bower,
Molest her ancient solitary reign.

Beneath those rugged elms, that yew-tree's shade,
Where heaves the turf in many a mouldering heap,
Each in his narrow cell for ever laid,
The rude Forefathers of the hamlet sleep.

The breezy call of incense-breathing morn,
The swallow twittering from the straw-built shed,
The cock's shrill clarion, or the echoing horn,
No more shall rouse them from their lowly bed.

For them no more the blazing hearth shall burn,
Or busy housewife ply her evening care:
No children run to lisp their sire's return,
Or climb his knees the envied kiss to share,

Oft did the harvest to their sickle yield,
Their furrow oft the stubborn glebe has broke;
How jocund did they drive their team afield!
How bow'd the woods beneath their sturdy stroke!

Let not Ambition mock their useful toil,
Their homely joys, and destiny obscure;
Nor Grandeur hear with a disdainful smile
The short and simple annals of the Poor.

The boast of heraldry, the pomp of power,
And all that beauty, all that wealth e'er gave,
Awaits alike th' inevitable hour:-
The paths of glory lead but to the grave.

Nor you, ye Proud, impute to these the fault
If Memory o'er their tomb no trophies raise,
Where through the long-drawn aisle and fretted vault
The pealing anthem swells the note of praise.

Can storied urn or animated bust
Back to its mansion call the fleeting breath?
Can Honour's voice provoke the silent dust,
Or Flattery soothe the dull cold ear of Death?

Perhaps in this neglected spot is laid
Some heart once pregnant with celestial fire;
Hands, that the rod of empire might have sway'd,
Or waked to ecstasy the living lyre:

But Knowledge to their eyes her ample page,
Rich with the spoils of time, did ne'er unroll;
Chill Penury repress'd their noble rage,
And froze the genial current of the soul.

Full many a gem of purest ray serene
The dark unfathom'd caves of ocean bear:
Full many a flower is born to blush unseen,
And waste its sweetness on the desert air.

Some village-Hampden, that with dauntless breast
The little tyrant of his fields withstood,
Some mute inglorious Milton here may rest,
Some Cromwell, guiltless of his country's blood.

Th' applause of list'ning senates to command,
The threats of pain and ruin to despise,
To scatter plenty o'er a smiling land,
And read their history in a nation's eyes,

Their lot forbad: nor circumscribed alone
Their growing virtues, but their crimes confined;
Forbad to wade through slaughter to a throne,
And shut the gates of mercy on mankind,

The struggling pangs of conscious truth to hide,
To quench the blushes of ingenuous shame,
Or heap the shrine of Luxury and Pride
With incense kindled at the Muse's flame.

Far from the madding crowd's ignoble strife,
Their sober wishes never learn'd to stray;
Along the cool sequester'd vale of life
They kept the noiseless tenour of their way.

Yet e'en these bones from insult to protect
Some frail memorial still erected nigh,
With uncouth rhymes and shapeless sculpture deck'd,
Implores the passing tribute of a sigh.

Their name, their years, spelt by th' unletter'd Muse,
The place of fame and elegy supply:
And many a holy text around she strews,
That teach the rustic moralist to die.

For who, to dumb forgetfulness a prey,
This pleasing anxious being e'er resign'd,
Left the warm precincts of the cheerful day,
Nor cast one longing lingering look behind?

On some fond breast the parting soul relies,
Some pious drops the closing eye requires;
E'en from the tomb the voice of Nature cries,
E'en in our ashes live their wonted fires.

For thee, who, mindful of th' unhonour'd dead,
Dost in these lines their artless tale relate;
If chance, by lonely contemplation led,
Some kindred spirit shall inquire thy fate, --

Haply some hoary-headed swain may say,
Oft have we seen him at the peep of dawn
Brushing with hasty steps the dews away,
To meet the sun upon the upland lawn;

'There at the foot of yonder nodding beech
That wreathes its old fantastic roots so high.
His listless length at noontide would he stretch,
And pore upon the brook that babbles by.

'Hard by yon wood, now smiling as in scorn,
Muttering his wayward fancies he would rove;
Now drooping, woeful wan, like one forlorn,
Or crazed with care, or cross'd in hopeless love.

'One morn I miss'd him on the custom'd hill,
Along the heath, and near his favourite tree;
Another came; nor yet beside the rill,
Nor up the lawn, nor at the wood was he;

'The next with dirges due in sad array
Slow through the church-way path we saw him borne,-
Approach and read (for thou canst read) the lay
Graved on the stone beneath yon aged thorn.'

The Epitaph
Here rests his head upon the lap of Earth
A youth to Fortune and to Fame unknown.
Fair Science frowned not on his humble birth,
And Melacholy marked him for her own.

Large was his bounty, and his soul sincere,
Heaven did a recompense as largely send:
He gave to Misery all he had, a tear,
He gained from Heaven ('twas all he wish'd) a friend.

No farther seek his merits to disclose,
Or draw his frailties from their dread abode
(There they alike in trembling hope repose),
The bosom of his Father and his God.

By Thomas Gray (1716-71).

"People"

No people are uninteresting.
Their fate is like the chronicle of planets.

Nothing in them is not particular,
and planet is dissimilar from planet.

And if a man lived in obscurity
making his friends in that obscurity
obscurity is not uninteresting.

To each his world is private,
and in that world one excellent minute.

And in that world one tragic minute.
These are private.

In any man who dies there dies with him
his first snow and kiss and fight.
It goes with him.

There are left books and bridges
and painted canvas and machinery.
Whose fate is to survive.

But what has gone is also not nothing:
by the rule of the game something has gone.
Not people die but worlds die in them.

Yevgeny Yevtushenko

Comment by Rama Rao:

In this world of heroic biographies there are
relatively few homages to the "average" man.
After Thomas Gray's "Elegy in a Country Churchyard", the only other one I have come across is this fine poem by Yevtushenko. The last line sums it up: "worlds die in
them ."
Yevtushenko is already in the Minstrels' collection. His "Courage" is another of my favourites.

Rama Rao.

Ron Clibborn-Dyer, China [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 14, 2004 at 03:19:44 (UTC)

Ndalima...I can see your frustration regarding getting a helping hand.. but in every country like here in Western Australia we are inundated with open hands.....just last week we had a Telethon, which raised 2.8 million dollars......for a small population that is incredible fundraising........even so my children were on at me to put my hand in my pocket and give too..I quietly told them I do give but to a organisation in South Africa........I also work part-time at a multicultural women's Health centre which is for the health and benefit of bi-lingual women, a lot of them refugees coming from war torn countries including Africa .....the work is very rewarding and I find myself working voluntarily as well...........Please don't think that we of the GNR are non givers........we are.......and yes I do wish I could do more especially for Zambia , maybe one day I can........

Ali Key, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 14, 2004 at 03:17:15 (UTC)

As
As Ayub so rightly pointed out before I got the chance,the population of the UK are inundated with requests for donations to charities with mailshots on a daily basis from national organisations and on a weekly basis from local charities, schools, youth groups, churches, etc.etc. Appeals go out on the TV every time there is an earthquake,flood, or famine anywhere in the world. WE all do what we can to help at home and abroad, the depravation in some of the vast sixties-built estates around Scotland's major cities is a total disgrace (South of the Border no doubt not much different) but get no charity whatsoever (No glamour collecting for druggies , alkies or wasters as they are collectively bracketed) Being in business I am usually looked upon as being a soft touch which I have bourne with a patient sigh and complied. However to date the only abuse I ever recieved for non-compliance to a request for a handout was from drunk panhandlers with a Scottish accent in London who expected sympathy from a fellow Scot until a recent posting on this site.The fact that I already, and have done so for many years, support a southern Africa charity is appartently of no consequence in the eyes of some Johnny Come-Lately. An excellent reminder from Doug some time ago when I went on a bit to much was " Dinnae try and teach your granny how tae sook eggs" Surely this adage was never more appropriate than to this present debate!

Colin Munro, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 14, 2004 at 01:32:53 (UTC)

Mike:
Was that a request or a snarky remarky. I have to see the whites of your eyes to read the intent of your words.

Syd:
Don't worry. We still luv ya. Can I pour you a drink at the Tiyende? I'm the bar tendererer(ess).. gawd 'elp us.!

Donna:
You were asking me if cricket is played here at all? I would have responded that it is not, but my husband told me that there was cricket game somewhere last weekend and wanted to know if he should get tickets so that I could have a taste of home. Don't know if it was a touring team or what. Cricket is not my thing at all, so I opted to go to the mall and max out his credit card instead.

Rugby is played here too, by the way, so we do have a little bit of culture.. grin. Men and women play. I believe the 2004 champs are based right here in Austin. For an interesting read, check out these websites: www.hunsrugby.com (The roster is a hoot!)
www.austinrugby.com
www.utrugby.com (It's even played at the University of Texas, which I did not know.)

Linda Hayes, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, November 14, 2004 at 00:17:47 (UTC)

Linda
You may be apolitical but keep on musing aloud.

Mike Slement, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, November 13, 2004 at 23:26:29 (UTC)

Ayib
How well you expressed the words that a lot of people on this site feel. I too am still finding my feet on the GNR as my joke about the USA shows, (got it from an E-mail sent from South Africa). It shows that there are lots of people out there with a lot of ways of looking at things. You have given me a lot to think about as well as the very gental but firm way you posted to Ndalima. Thank you.
Syd

Donald Sydney, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, November 13, 2004 at 22:56:39 (UTC)

Chinyerezi:

I see you are around the same age as me. SURELY you jest when you ask if America celebrates Christmas!!??? However, that is not the biggest celebration here. Thanksgiving is the time when families will make the effort to travel from near and far to be with each other more than any other time of the year. (Obviously I am a black sheep American as I am travelling to the UK over Thanksgiving..grin).

With the preface that I am apolitical, I have to ask all you anti-Bushites out there - if he is so loathed, how come he was re-elected for four more years? And when all these other countries can't fight their own battles.. "Who ya gonna run to?" He ain't exercising his veto power much on foreign aid, either. Hmmm. Now don't be lashing out at me if you are Kerry-okie fans. I'm just musing out loud and don't want to be on anybody's political side. I think we should make Doug Grewer President of the World. He seems to have his head screwed on the right way... grin.

South African by birth.. Texan by default.. Matwetwe by choice... eeeh!

P.S. Please don't use up your energy by lambasting me for my posting. I don't care who is in charge of the White House, because I'M in charge of the Hayes House. Ha! Ha!

Linda Hayes, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, November 13, 2004 at 22:35:00 (UTC)

Ndalima,
Many people on this site do their bit for Zambia in their own quiet way. My experience has taught me that one has to first build confidence in potential donors; then one needs to find out or even ask them what their thoughts are about your idea(s) and then build from there. A lot of existing Charities have their problems. We all know what they are. I did mail you earlier and you did respond. Since then I have been putting feelers out to see how your project can be helped. These things take time. Confidence-building in itself takes time, You are in a hurry! GNR members are being asked to donate to a cause on a daily basis. Here in the UK we get bombarded with leaflets and mailshots daily.Zambia is dear to all of us. The problems our Aussie friend is having is an indication about the bureaucracy that hinders aid entering Zambia. Perhaps you and I and others can write to the Zambian Government and request them to make charitable aid to places like orphanages, and institutions like that ,exempt from charges like duties etc. You need to have patience. Your posting has upset a lot of people. The way to someone's heart is through gradual persuation; not by throwing tantrums. You cannot demand respect..you have to earn it. This same principle applies when canvassing for a cause. You cannot demand money from anyone...you need to first earn their respect and then respect for your cause. I would like to think that your posting was written in a fit of anger, tampered by frustration. An apology to all here will be welcome. Saying sorry when you know you are wrong will start earning you respect.I know a lot of White people who work very hard to help Third World causes. In the UK alone millions of people dig deep in their pockets every time there is an appeal on TV; when disaster strikes in Africa.I know quite a lot on this board who do their bit. So calm down and reflect....

Ayub Ismail Zumla, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, November 13, 2004 at 22:13:10 (UTC)

Um I used the word "choose" quite a lot in that last posting, but "choice" is what it's about isn't it?

Fiona Gayther, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, November 13, 2004 at 21:12:11 (UTC)

Doug, you told it like it is and expressed what most of us were thinking in a very erudite way. I was born in Luanshya and as much as anyone else, would like to help. When I was there last year I saw the poverty. It was heartbreaking and I would like to help, but I would like to choose how or if I donate my money or anything else in the manner I choose. Actually, I choose to donate my money to the Da Gama Home in Luanshya. I will be donating directly to them because I know what happens to the money there. Actually it's rather strange that I choose to do that because when I was little I stayed there during a school holiday when my mother was working and HATED it and the nuns terrified me! However, they do a wonderful job with the children and I am very glad to see any donations going directly to where it is needed. If anyone else is interested, Reg Hughes, who lives in Luanshya posted on the GNR last month. He has already assisted in making sure that donations and equipment go straight to them. He can be contacted through the names directory.

Fiona Gayther, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, November 13, 2004 at 21:09:51 (UTC)

Ha!ha,Ayub you are right,I smell shite,yes I definately smell shite.
Doug I am going to incorporate the reunion with a holiday with some friends of mine working on an island in Siavonga,look forward to seeing you there,maybe I can even convince my boet to go,have not seen him in 17yrs.he lives in Zambia.

Pappy Papier, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, November 13, 2004 at 20:40:24 (UTC)

Ndalima P. Nsamwa
You only joined this board very recently and the first thing you did was to try and solicit money before the members had even had a chance to know anything about you. Whether it is for a good cause or not is irrelevant.

Maybe you have been so long in the USA you have forgotten your own culture. Would you, in Zambia, when arriving in a stangers homestead abuse his hospitality by immediatly asking him for money. I don't think that would be acceptable.

It is a fact that many charities are scams and even in the better ones only a small percentage of donations gets through to the intended recipient. When this is pointed out, you then see fit to abuse our members. I think you owe them an apology.

I am not ashamed (or proud for that matter) to be white. It is just an accident of birth. I am just as good or bad as anyone else. I certainly have no liberal white guilt complex that black parasites in America and South Africa so enjoy playing on for financial gain. I do not owe you or anyone else an account of what I do, or do not do, to aid those less fortunate than myself.

Before you come back with some childish moronic accusation of racism, let me tell you that this Bwana was a member of UNIP and jailed by the colonial authorities long before you were even born. This kind of racist crap whether it comes from Tamm on the right or you on the left is very unwelcome.

Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, November 13, 2004 at 20:08:00 (UTC)

Gwyneth,
Thats why we love Africa so so much!

Pappy,
You must be itching to say "schit" to all the postings of a political nature that have appeared in the last few days!

Ayub Ismail Zumla, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, November 13, 2004 at 19:36:51 (UTC)

Hi Beth
Looks like you have joined the parachute club with Bill Knott.

Cheers - Doug

Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, November 13, 2004 at 19:19:08 (UTC)

Hi everyone,

David, Shelly (11) and I have just spent a wonderful afternoon/evening with our new next door neighbours - ex Rhodies (30+-) who know all the ex army songs etc. etc. (passed down from parents)!!! We got into major
"friendly" arguements as to who should have got Kariba etc. etc.

My daughter couldn't believe it, when we all jumped into the pool, fully clothed, in total darkness, singing "UD UD UDI, singing UD UD UDI" etc etc. When did you guys last do something totally compulsive and really have a blast? Like grabbing the last chain at the Mulungushi slush gate?? Riding out to the 15 mile drift, thinking you would never (puff puff] get.... back (puff puff) ...... to Broken Hill. Thank God I live in Africa.

I met Judy Carr at a car wash in Craighall - go well with the wedding Judy and may we meet again for a longer chat.

Craig - thanks for all your wonderful work on our site!!

Must go to bed - love this site -good night!!!

v

Elspeth Lloyd, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, November 13, 2004 at 19:11:01 (UTC)

A South African dies and goes to hell

There he finds that there is a different hell for each country.
He goes to the German hell and asks, "What do they do here?" He is told, "First they put you in an electric chair for an hour. Then they lay you on a bed of nails for another hour. Then the German devil comes in and whips you for the rest of the day." The man does not like the sound of that at all, so he moves on.

He checks out the USA hell as well as the Russian hell and many more. He discovers that they are all more or less the same as the German hell. Then he comes to the African hell and finds that there is a long line of people waiting to get in. Amazed, he asks, "What do they do here?"

He is told, "First they put you in an electric chair for an hour. Then they lay you on a bed of nails for another hour. Then the South African devil comes in and whips you for the rest of the day."

"But that is exactly the same as all the other hells - why are there so many people waiting to get in?"

"Because maintenance is so bad that the electric chair does not work, someone has stolen all the nails from the bed, and the devil is a former Govt servant, so he comes in, signs the register and then goes to the canteen..."

Gwyneth Thomas, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, November 13, 2004 at 19:06:57 (UTC)

OOps, "facets."

Robert Huntley, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, November 13, 2004 at 17:56:42 (UTC)

Eva Carra(Pettersson),

I am sorry that you felt the need to temper your reply to something I wrote. If I offended you, vent your spleen and relieve your collective guilt of being White.

You should really try to elevate your reading habits, Michael Moore is a juvenile slob and nothing more that a provocateur. His combination of fantasy and downright untruths are legion.

I was trying to point out, that it was the European influences that allowed the indigenous peoples to record in writing, their own languages. There are other factets of the history of the Continent that could be mentioned but I do not wish to use up this site' s bandwidth. Let us say that I was thinking of the British model rather than that of Leopold of the Belgians. His notorious regime was ended by the ferocious opposition of....... Europeans.

I am surprised you kept the napkin for so long.

Robert Huntley, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, November 13, 2004 at 17:55:43 (UTC)

Disaster
The Irish o's (O'gara, O'riley) beat the South African Ou's 17 to 12. That try that was sneaked in by the Irish while Smith was talking to the Boks on the Ref's instructions was a bit naughty so we can call the result realy a draw.

Even so the Irish deserved to win! The Boks must get their act together.

Pappy
So you are coming to the Kariba reunion. That's great!

Cheers - Doug

Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, November 13, 2004 at 16:41:46 (UTC)

ello Keith

Thanks for that IQ website. No big surprises there.

When I asked if the email would still be doing the rounds if Kerry had won I was actually referring to the email that Donald sent. My fault .I was not specific enough.
That email had the line ‘In the light of you failing to elect an intelligent President’
In many eyes this could only apply to Bush and not to Kerry or a Democrat President.

Mike Slement, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, November 13, 2004 at 15:46:24 (UTC)

Ndalima

Your frustrations are obvious. I have seen on the message board someone rebuked and told if he/she has such time to waste to put the time to better use through charity work. Heather, living and working in Zambia, has insights. I see the wisdom of her understandings.

The happiest times of my childhood were in Livingstone. In January 1950 I was the only survivor of three afflicted with Rheumatic Fever. The kindest man to me was an African Orderly, who brought me lots of paper to draw on and Jigsaw puzzles to spend my time with.

My wife Anja and I planned to go to Zambia in September 2005 but are now booking for June 2005. We decided to put together a lot of material aid. As through different sources built up an idea of need. We looked up as many of the aid groups as we could find, before settling for Zamaid. Anja works in Royal Perth hospital and by word of mouth the John Fawcett Foundation became aware of our intentions and offered a lot of medical equipment and basic nursing supply.

We are applying here for a licence to raise funds to cover shipping costs and possible duty and VAT etc.
Some Nurses have expressed the desire to join us.
I have made known to our local people that I am looking for a tillage machine of the early 1950s, that I can copy or renovate and adapt for handicapped people and paraplegics. Re ZNAHP (Zambia National Association for Handicapped People) it will allow some of them to get their hands to the soil and pick their own vegetables and fruit.

ICC is one of the american based aid groups and has a team in Perth, WA, who have built a school, orphanage and Hospital at Mupapa. The Perth team sent a container last year and are planning a container with pumps and equipment in September 2005. The Mupapa group has been granted 25 ha. We recently heard they are sending about 400 eggs a day to Ndola for sale.

So take heart, a lot of help is available but being squandered by beaurocracy.

We are not the only ones trying to help.

Best wishes Bryan and Anja

Bryan Baker, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, November 13, 2004 at 14:51:42 (UTC)

Mike Slement

The link is

http://chrisevans3d.com/files/iq.htm

I imagine if Kerry had won, this might still have on the web although there would have been a few more blue states.

Keith Binns, United Arab Emirates [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, November 13, 2004 at 14:10:16 (UTC)

That should have said ' tandem bicycle'

Mike Slement, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, November 13, 2004 at 13:43:56 (UTC)

JOKE

A young man and his girlfriend are travelling on a andem bicycle in the countryside.
They approach a very steep hill.

Young man ‘’ I think we should get off at the foot of the hill and push it up.’’

Girlfriend. ‘’ OK with me. What about the bike? ‘’

Mike Slement, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, November 13, 2004 at 13:41:21 (UTC)

Ndalima

For the record, and my postings will bear witness I never get involved in any of the arguments that developed on this web site, but I feel that I have to make some comment on your posting.

Why are we referred to as Bwanna and Missuses? Surely you grew up in a period when there were no Bwannas and Mistresses? I actually feel insulted.

I joined this site because it became a place where I could share happy memories of a time in my life with people who experienced many of the same things as I did.

I would like you to spend some time going through the membership of this site and consider the following:-
What is the average age of the members on this site? At a guess they are around my age, getting close to 60, and I guess with the retirement years looking them in the face they are thinking about the pennies that will have to see them through to their last days. I can see a lot of us standing hat in hand in the not too distant future.

I am not against helping Zambia, and if there is anything I can do I will be the first in line but on my terms and in my own time. The last thing I need is someone to get my hair up as you have just done.

Philip Pain, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, November 13, 2004 at 11:40:43 (UTC)

I have never heard of Kwanza until now. Is it now an American holiday?

Do Americans celebrate Christmas? What is thanks giving?

I suppose if Kwansa allow people to have a good time that would a good thing regardless of the person who started it. What do you think people

Chinyerezi Chintu, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, November 13, 2004 at 10:05:00 (UTC)

CLARIFICATION

Although nobody has mentioned this to me, it did occur to me as I drove home tonight that some might think that we suspended Chris because of a complaint lodged against him. Neither Ali nor anyone else complained directly to us about this specific incident. Besides the fact that we seem to have scared everyone into being afraid to complain to us (which cuts down on e-mail considerably) by discouraging private complaints, people will generally post their feelings here instead, which is what some did. The action taken was of our own initiative.

Bob (a "red-stater"),

I appreciate your reconsideration on the matter of having a sense of humour. I do admit that there has been and will continue to be a lot of bashing of the United States; the guy at the top always takes the rotten tomatoes, just ask Bill Gates. I do also agree that events like 9/11 might dull one's sense of humour (if you'll excuse my understatement). Having an almost even split in elections will also result in one side bashing the other. Through it all it's the humour that keeps us sane. C'est la vie. (Your first test if you move to a blue state is to translate that.)

Ndalima,

I think that your proposition that the members of the GNR that did not immediately board your band wagon are "evil" is baseless. Most of the reaction I saw was constructive, the result of hard-earned experience, and some of it from the people on the ground in Zambia and Luanshya. If you choose to see it as "evil" then that says more about you and the thought (or lack thereof) you have put into your cause.

Craig Hartnett, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Saturday, November 13, 2004 at 09:31:20 (UTC)

Ndalima

First and foremost, calm down!

You can't presume that because people aren't subscribing to your cause that they do not support African or other charities of their choices. You won't improve your chances of support by ticking them off or insulting them either. This message board has just come out of a period of strife and it would be nice not to start up another war.

I like your challenge, to do something, however. I wish you had just voiced that part.

I collect for Zimbabwean orphans, old people and WOZA, victims of the Mugabe regime. I choose to attend MDC vigils in Dallas and support their efforts for democratic change in Zim. There's a vigil tomorrow. I've appealed to the membership in the past. Out of the entire message board, two members have responded and continue to do so.

Does that mean that everyone else doesn't care, or doesn't do something else in their own quiet way? NO! Of course not. How arrogant we would be to presume so. You can bet that a lot of people are quietly supporting world change in their way. But isn't that their business? We can only ask and having asked, let it be.

I have to tell you again I think your tone and attitude was completely wrong.

However, you struck a chord in that I have dealt with the attitude of: "Oh it's a waste, there are so many scams and most of the money doesn't get to the right people". With you, I would rather that attitude was replaced by an attitude of networking information to eachother on what causes and charities are the most worthy in this imperfect world. I support a Zambian girl through World Vision. They drive me crazy with their stupid rules and regulations and red tape and waste but I will not stop the support because they still improve the lives of this girl and countless other Zambian youth who would have quite a bit less without them.

Tina Magee, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, November 13, 2004 at 07:25:59 (UTC)

Save ZAMBIA's future
A few weeks ago I posted a massage on how we can try and help Luanshya get back on it’s feet, the response I got from the so called ex GNR’s is so disheartening… Talk about people with MALIGNANT PESSIMISSMSSIM? Incredible how people can be so negative and just horribly evil. !
1] When you judge people by your own standards you make grave mistakes; the people who think am there to get rich, are judging me by their own low life standards. They think because their interest in Zambia was to line their pocket they think I want to do the same… well guess what Ex Bwanas, they are people like me who love my country genuinely and yes believe it or not, I am really GOD FEARING IN THE REAL SENSE. I am not a Hypocrite… If you cannot afford to help or will not just help Zambians please keep quiet, do not say malignant negative things that will discourage genuine would be donors.
When you write those negative things you deprive an orphan in Zambia, of that so much needed pair of shoes, Blanket, a roof…. Why would anyone be that evil? Unless of cause one is indeed evil and the people of Zambia mean nothing to them.
This is not about me, it is about those children .
For those doubting Thomas’s I will advise them to keep their Ears and EYES wide open.
I’m not from the old school Zambia as most of you remember it, so much has changed, and with the change, out come new Breeds like me.
I live in New York City; I have a very good job. If I want I can just look away from Zambia, I have nothing to loose, but when I came here I realized that no one would build Zambia for us but us, that is why this year I decided to start this foundation. I want to give back to Zambia, slowly start building.
2]I am going to challenge all of you who will not help the orphans in Zambia, on the pretext of not trusting the leaders and founders of the charities in Zambia, if you care so much and you really want to help Zambia, why don’t you either find People who you trust or yourself go there and do the Job I am trying to do? You do not need to send monetary Donations to me; you yourself can do the job! That is my challenge!
There are people in this world that are not conniving or use other people to better them selves, when you learn to understand that, you be on the road to genuine wisdom and develop real, compassion, love and Empathy for other people with no strings attached, no matter how different you maybe from them.
YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY, WHY DON”T YOU SAY IT TO ME PERSONALLY, MY PHONE NUMBER AND E-MAIL ADDRESS WERE ON THE MESSAGE BOARD, BUT NO ONE HAS DARED TO WRITE TO ME AND TRY TO FIND OUT WHAT I AM DOING!
Good luck on your GNR T-shirts, obviously this says a lot on what the Ex- bwanas and their Mistresses, real concern and care lies.
Nsamwa Ndalima

Ndalima Nsamwa, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Saturday, November 13, 2004 at 06:30:32 (UTC)

Hi all....since it is the season for Mangoes.......this may be good reading........Army of green ants to guard mango crops*

Mango growers in northern Australia are being urged to consider using green ants as an environmentally friendly alternative to chemical pesticides.

A three-year study funded by the Australian Centre for International Agricultural Research has found the ferocious predators are a cost-efficient way to keep most pests away from the fruit.

The study involved trials in Australia, Vietnam and Thailand and education packages will be distributed to producers in all three countries encouraging them to consider the idea.

Associate Professor Keith Christian from Charles Darwin University says the quality of fruit was either the same or improved when the ants were used.

"We've been working on this for more than three years and we have really hard data to show that it's a real alternative," he said.

"It takes a bit of management but not a huge amount of work. It's no more work than spraying. It's just a different kind of work."

However, Northern Territory mango grower Peter Dellis says green ants are unlikely to eliminate the need for chemical sprays.

"I've had some experience with that sort of environment," Mr Dellis said.

"It does do a very good job of controlling pests but I don't think it's going to be one thing and a total fix for every situation though."

Ali Key, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, November 13, 2004 at 05:19:13 (UTC)

Robert Huntley

After my initial reaction to the last sentence of your recent post, my response thereto has been muchly tempered.

1) White man speaks with forked tongue - North American Indian Chief
2) White man got no dreaming, him go 'nother way - Australian Aborigine
3) Three quarters of the time I am ashamed to be human. The rest of the time I am ashamed to be white - Me
4) Stupid White Men - Book written by Michael Moore

That is my opinion in a nutshell. As it is written in the blood, sweat and tears of millions it will never waver. I will say no more on this, my lips are sealed.

Regards
Eve Carra (Pettersson)

PS I have Ian Smith's signature on a restaurant napkin. Anybody interested?

Esther Pettersson, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, November 13, 2004 at 04:57:56 (UTC)

Craig,

After long and careful consideration , (hell, it took me about a minute) I am now convinced my sense of humor has been tainted by recent and present history, from Zimbabwe to The Troubles in Northern Ireland and finally the attack on 9/11.

I will try to reprogram back to the days of the Goon Show and Benny Hill, but the one thing I can't find funny is being a part of Canada if I have to learn French!

Okay, a? Bob Summers.

Robert Summers, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, November 13, 2004 at 03:17:00 (UTC)

Just wanted to let you GNR's know that I'm in Maui and that I'm told that I'm having a good time.
Staying at Napili Shores but have found a pub in Paia on the other side of the island that serves cold beer - hey, it doesn't get much better than this, unless of course you're at the Nkana mine club after a hard game of rugger.
To my brother Tinker - wish you were here!

Glen Drake, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Saturday, November 13, 2004 at 00:39:07 (UTC)

Linda,

I misread your posting on Kwaanza, thinking you might have thought this a good thing. i apologize if I seemed a bit curt.

Karenga was and is a thug and should be in the Big House.

Robert Huntley, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, November 13, 2004 at 00:27:01 (UTC)

Craig:

Just saw that you fixed my pathetic mistakes in my html posting. Ta, mate. I can now hold my head high again. Now if only I can learn to spell in a manner satisfactory to the standards of Jilly Aplin.. :)

Linda Hayes, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, November 13, 2004 at 00:00:30 (UTC)

Hi Bob:

I'm a bit confused. Is your posting saying that I am sorry Kwanzaa (however you spell it Jilly Aplin) is not more widely celebrated and I should find out more about it before I am in support of it? If so, that is not what I meant. I find it superficial and was interested in what others had to say about it. Thanks for your info. I really do enjoy your postings. Your information is always very interesting and on the mark.

Craig:

Thank goodness! I can stop worrying now. I must have tried to access the GNR message board while your message was loading or something. I could get onto the home page but it would not let me get on to the message board for about five minutes. I wondering if I was in the corner for wanting to get Kevin Shone in the bushes at the party.. grin.

All jokes aside, and this is not a debate, I just wanted to say that your explanation was well thought through and presented in a manner as to leave no grey (gray) area on what is considered acceptable behaviour. I think we should all treat each other the way we would like to be treated ourselves.

Linda Hayes, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, November 12, 2004 at 23:57:06 (UTC)

Linda, Glen, Ali, Colin, Sue, Nicky, Doug, Bill, Jill,

Thanks for the nice things you have said and you're welcome.

Sue,

I love your suggestion. :)

Peter,

It's probably about time someone in the IT business from its inception learned some HTML!

Tina suggested that you could be a cleavage warmer at Hooters during the winter. I already applied and apparently the position has been filled. I am on the waiting list.

Fiona,

According to XE.com, Z$2 000 000 is worth about £190 at Z$10 523 per pound. From what little I know and regardless of what £190 is actually worth (depending on how and through whom you actually conduct the transaction), Z$2 000 000 would be roughly equivalent to (maybe even a little more than) a decent monthly salary, judging by the positions of a couple of family members and friends there in managerial-type jobs. It's the actual process of and fees/taxes involved in getting the money to Zim that I know nothing about and which is probably more important to you. That's about as much helpful information as I can give you, I'm afraid.

Miscellany

I see lots of good stuff posted this month, and am going to have to go back and read it all this weekend. Thanks to all of you who contribute so much.

NR/Zambia Web Site

Having just returned from a short but terribly arduous trip, I have seen several people refer to Ian Singer's excellent Web site. If you are new and haven't checked it out yet, you really should do so, but be prepared to be occupied for several hours.

In Search of the American Sense of Humo(u)r

In defence/defense of Donald Sydney, I present the following piece, which is alleged to have appeared in an American newspaper and is presumably written by an American. Some of the Americans here need to contact the INS to see if it's possible to have their senses of humo(u)r reinstated. Canadians please note: you will need your sense of humour for this piece too, as a couple of parts of it are slightly condescending, but at least we can laugh at ourselves, eh?

ADOPT US, O CANADA!
The Philadelphia Daily News

As a blue-red split continues in the Divided States of America, we note that every blue state is contiguous to Canada or to a another blue state that is contiguous to Canada, except Hawaii - that's not contiguous to anything but a lot of blue water that's contiguous to Canada. Therefore, we've got an idea. How about a sort of second American Revolution, Canada, in which you annex all the blue states, liberate us from King George, and thus become the world's sole superpower?

What Canada gets:

Higher education: All eight Ivy League universities, Stanford, U. Chicago and Northwestern all just lowered their admissions standards for the kids from Saskatchewan.

Serious sports: Forget the Super Bowl. With the Eagles, Patriots, Steelers, Jets, Vikings and Packers, the Grey Cup is where it's at. You don't get the Expos back as they're now in D.C. But who needs the Expos when you've got the Red Sox, Yankees, Twins, Mariners, Giants, Dodgers, Angels, Padres, Phillies and Pirates? The World Series is coming! The World Series is coming! The Raptors are Canada's favorite basketball team? We don't think so. What about Flyers-Maple Leafs? Flyers-Canadiens? Settle the strike and drop the puck.

Warm-weather vacations: Sun yourselves whenever you want in Southern California or Hawaii at Canada's beautiful beaches.

The cultural arts: Tourists will love Canada's museums including the Smithsonian, the Museum of Natural History and the Philadelphia Museum of Art. Plus, in addition to Broadway, the Kennedy Center and top regional theater, we're throwing in our best orchestras - Philadelphia, Boston, Chicago and L.A.

The entertainment industry: You already love our movies and TV shows more than those red-staters and now when that rare production shoots in California or New York instead of Vancouver or Toronto, you still get credit for the jobs and the tax revenue.

The automobile industry: Ohio can keep its Honda plant. GMs, Fords and Chryslers are made in Canada.

The biotech industry: With many of the world's top biotech firms located in Massachusetts, New York, Washington and California (thanks to $6 billion in new stem cell research funding), it's likely that Canadian scientists will cure cancer and heart disease within the next 50 years.

The computer industry: That's right, we keep Microsoft, Apple, Hewlett-Packard and Silicon Valley. "America" gets Dell.

A burgeoning tourist industry: You've now got a lot more to sell than Toronto, the Cabot Trail and the glaciers in Banff. Even red-staters love to visit Atlantic City, the Liberty Bell, Maui, the Space needle and Disneyland (now Disney Canada).

Fresher produce: Canada, the artichoke, garlic and strawberry capital of the world. And Canadian wines just got a whole lot tastier.

Arnold Schwarzenegger: He can't be president but he'd make a swell Canadian premier.

What the Red-Staters get: Exactly what they want.

What Blue-Staters get: Canadian citizenship: And we don't even have to move. "O, Canada": A national anthem that's much easier to sing than "The Star Spangled Banner." Free flu shots. Not to mention free health care.

You don't like our "values," red-staters, you've got your wish - we're outta here. But remember, the next time you want to see a Broadway show, visit wine country, Hawaii or the birthplace of liberty, don't just bring your Visa card, bring your visa. You're in Canada now. And we're tightening our borders.

Don't delay, Canada. This offer expires in four years.

Addressing the Suspension Issue

Arthur has already posted a message addressing Chris Tamm's suspension and I agree with him that there really shouldn't be any explanation required. That said, as a courtesy, I will elaborate further. What I am not going to do is debate the issue because, on and off over the last five years that this message board has been running, it has been debated ad nauseam. As someone implied earlier (and I have made note of all of the points raised here since the beginning of the month and will address most of them), it doesn't take a doctorate in rocket science for Chris or anyone else here to figure out why he is now persona non grata.

Simply put, Chris went too far one time too many. Had his attack on Ali at the end of last month been an aberration for him, or been toned down somewhat, or been made by anyone else here who doesn't have Chris' track record, it would probably have passed by relatively (and I do emphasise that word) unnoticed. But Chris does have a track record, and no matter how well-prepared and lucid (and possibly even correct) his economic arguments are, they don't excuse his behaviour. In my opinion nothing and nobody on this board has ever approached Chris' level of offensiveness -- ever. His attack on Ali was the straw that broke the camel's back, not an action that stood on its own.

That pretty much sums up how Arthur, Heather and I feel about Chris and his suspension. Now I'll address some of the issues raised by various people.

We know that not everyone agrees with our action and we certainly didn't expect unanimous support. There are those that support Chris, those that don't, and those that will "defend to the death his right to free speech" (to paraphrase a famous saying). We didn't make a decision to suspend Chris to be popular with one camp, just as we haven't in the past made the decision not to suspend him to be popular with another camp. Chris tested our limits (and by "our" I mean not only site management, but much of the membership in general), and it should not surprise him or anyone else that he eventually stretched our limits beyond hope of their return. Some will accuse us of being left-wing commie pinkoes against free speech, and perhaps even of complicity in the assassination of JFK. You're welcome to your opinions, but for the record we state that our only agenda is that we all treat each other in as civil a manner as possible. I do realise that a few members (and I include myself in this) have responded to Chris in a rather uncivil manner but, to put it rather childishly, he started it. As I alluded to above, I don't recall anyone else ever going out of their way to be so rude, although there was one member who came close by posting inflammatory comments under a couple of fake memberships that he had set up.

Glen, you have stated that you believe our action to suspend Chris "is fine provided ... rules ... 'of the road' are in place." I presume that you are not advocating we return to the good old days of the former Code of Conduct. After Chris' penultimate outburst quite recently, when Linda and Tina posted a joint statement here, we stated that the guiding rules here are simply those of the norms of acceptable social behaviour. There are no rules on the Internet either allowing behaviour that is not normally permitted in polite company or forbidding behaviour that is normally permitted in polite company. All we're suggesting is that people should conduct themselves here just as they would if they were in the physical presence of the people they are addressing. If Chris is fine with attacking someone in person in the manner he did over the Internet at the end of last month, then he is not someone in whose physical presence we would like to be, and likewise we are also not interested in his "virtual" presence here.

All this talk of behaviour might lead one to think that we are being rather patronising, telling Chris off like he was our child. That's certainly not our intent. I wouldn't be sitting here talking of behaviour if people didn't want explanations. I am not here to be someone's daddy, attempting to modify their behaviour so that they might grow up to be good citizens. Chris is a big boy now, and our suspending him is not punishment. No fatwa has been issued and no order has been issued to terminate Chris "with extreme prejudice". He has simply had his ability to post messages (and insults) here removed. He can just as easily have this ability restored; there is nothing irreversible about his suspension. That said, we doubt that he is willing to apologise for his attack on Ali (just for a start) as we believe he feels he has done nothing wrong -- just stating it like it is, talking straight, pulling no punches, etc. "What's the big deal? Why are people so mean to me?" we can see him asking his wife over dinner. Even if he was to apologise, we can't see it being a genuine apology and we can't see an old dog learning new tricks. We're not saying that the door is closed on Chris forever, but we are saying that we can't see him stooping to apologise, and meaning it, and refraining from doing it again.

The phrase "political correctness" has reared its ugly head here this month in reference to the apparent "climate" on the board, with someone even going so far as to say (incorrectly) that the "providers" of this Web site had decreed that "political references were to be expunged". Chris' suspension has nothing to do with political correctness or his view of politics. As I and others have said, it's not his views that people find offensive, it's how he presents them and his personal and demeaning attacks. While there may have been a technical grain of truth to his assertion that Ali, having left Northern Rhodesia at the "mighty" age of four-years-old, would not have any memories of the place -- so what? ("Gosh!") And since when did Chris become an expert on memory, Ali's in particular? And who is he to say what Ali (or anyone else) should or should not, or does or does not feel? Whether or not we agree with any, all, or none of Chris' opinions has no bearing on the action taken. Someone can state here that they think Hitler was onto a good thing if they really want to, without fear of official censure. It's a combination of how that person presents his/her arguments and whether he/she engages in ad hominem attacks that will determine whether or not he/she is suspended.

Glen, you also questioned the timing vis-a-vis my rather caustic response to Chris' lacklustre observations about the Political Compass. While I was happy to point out his unusually poorly-prepared arguments, his knee-jerk reaction to the Political Compass Web site certainly had nothing to do with his suspension. Chris attacked me in a far more personal and disturbing manner by private e-mail in December 2001, following which the aforementioned Code of Conduct was implemented. If I had let my personal feelings override my desire for fairness and the general well-being of the GNR, he would have been prevented from posting almost three years ago.

Some of the comments made here over the last few days suggest a fear of "Big Brother" just waiting to suspend more members. Nothing could be further from the truth. In a little over five years Chris is the only member to have been suspended for actions other than spamming the board. (I exclude from that comment aliases used by a member here a couple of years ago, which were suspended because they were not even real people.) If you will visualise an imaginary scale of zero to ten, where ten gets you suspended and zero is where a new member starts out, every single current member is at zero. While some may have managed to get to one or two on the scale over the last five years (including members whose views are diametrically opposed to Chris'), not a single other member is under consideration for suspension.

Finally, will we, in the future, take such actions as warning the membership and/or the member in question, and, after a suspension has been effected, announce said suspension here and to the suspended member? We don't know. Having only ever suspended one member in this fashion, we have not developed a standard operating procedure, and probably will not as we will likely deal with individual cases on a case-by-case basis. Spammers do not get warned. Members who seem to be legitimate but who, through ignorance of "netiquette", think that they can use the message board to promote their businesses, will be warned publicly and privately. (We have done this in the past, as some members might remember.) Someone who joins one day and the next launches into some sort of personal attack will most likely be warned publicly and privately. Chris has taken years to get to the point where we said, "Enough, and no further", and so, while he was not explicitly warned immediately after his attack on Ali, as someone else said, he "must have known he was sailing close to the wind". As I mentioned above, Chris has proved to me to be completely irrational in private e-mail to me in the past, and I am not purposely going to put myself in the position of being on the receiving end of his invective and vitriol by sending him a nice "you have been suspended" message.

As I said above, this has been debated before ad nauseam, and we will not debate it further. You can call us chickens if you like, but we are not retired and need to work for a living, and debating this issue does not put bread on our tables. Feel free to discuss it amongst yourselves as you did at the beginning of the month, but we expect the issue will die a natural death soon enough.

Craig Hartnett, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Friday, November 12, 2004 at 23:34:55 (UTC)

I remenber when the RAF arrived in Lusaka with their Javelins and KK moaned that they were old relics.
We got to know a number of the RAF guys, we had fuel rationing and vehicles, they had loads of fuel but nothing to put it in so friendships were made
We took them to the dark north (copperbelt)(Joke) and Salisbury many times to enjoy the delights of the night life,
Ironic or what

David Heaton, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, November 12, 2004 at 21:20:57 (UTC)

Ha!ha,nice one Doug,Feaces do belong on heeds,and heeds on necks.But I still can`t for the life of me figure out who tort you slopes to speek Engeland,you know the old saying is dit rake soos kak,liek soos kak dun it is kak.Ha! ha,have a nice day,looking forward to meeting you at the Zambian reunion.

Pappy Papier, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, November 12, 2004 at 19:51:13 (UTC)

From International Business Report 11/11/2004.

Enoch Kavindele the chairman of ‘North-west Rail’ said his company, plus foreign partners, would construct a rail line linking the Zambian Copperbelt to Angola’s Benguela line to Lobito Bay.

The line would be started in 2005 and completed by 2007. It would service mainly the Kansanshi copper and cobalt mines and the Lumwana copper and gold mine in northwest Zambia.

Kansanshi, which is majority owned by Canada’s First Quantum Minerals will start copper production next year. Lumwana, which is owned by Australia’s Equinox Minerals, is expected to come on stream in 2006.

Kavindele said private firms would wholly fund the project, which would be operated by the North-west Rail Company for 30 years before it handed over the line to the government.

This looks very promising for the economic future of Zambia. If it all works out it with open up a whole new trade route with secondary development along the line of rail.

Pappy
Schitte should be spelt ess aych one tee – shit. It is a good honest Anglo Saxon word like fart and was only corrupted into faeces by Queen Victoria (the one with the German husband and later on a Scots toy boy). She was such a prude she even made the palace staff cover the piano legs with skirts in case the sight of them aroused the males. Now to me this seems silly and confusing because normally one would find faeces on heades, and heades on neackes.

Brasso
Politics and economics are part of life. Funny I never heard you complaining when Tamm was blowing out his brand of politics and abusing fellow members?

Robert
That Karenga sounds a right bastard!

Kevin and Young Lady Leah - Happy birthday!
Kevin, I don't think I will be coming to Zambia this Xmas but I hope to see you at the Kariba reunion.

To all new posters - Welcome!
I see many new names are appearing on this board. That is great. Keep it up.

Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, November 12, 2004 at 19:15:34 (UTC)

Linda Hayes,

Before lamenting in why Kwaanza is not celebrated to a greater degree than it is, you should find out about it's genesis.

This is just a small bit about Ron Karenga.

A Less Than Complimentary View of

Dr. Maulana Karenga

10 March 1999

It seems the founder of Kwanzaa wasn’t any more ethical than those who sung its praises. In fact, at the same time Al Sharpton was glorifying the new holiday, its creator was sitting in a California prison for torturing two black women who were members of the United Slaves, a black nationalist cult he had founded.

The cult leader Ron N. Everett went by the name Karenga and in the 60’s took upon himself the title "maulana," which means "master teacher" in Swahili. He was born on a poultry farm in Maryland, the fourteenth child of a Baptist minister. He moved to California in the late 50’s to attend LA Community College. He later moved to UCLA, where he got a Master’s degree in political science and African Studies and by the mid 1960’s, he had established himself as a leader of the black movement- a self described "cultural nationalist". He had purposely used the term "nationalist" to distinguish his group from the Black Panthers who were Marxists. He wanted a separate black state while the Marxists worked for integration.

The friction between his group and the Panthers mirrored the centuries of tribal warring in Africa. Both groups were heavily recruiting at UCLA in the 60’s and vying for control of the newly developed African Studies Department. Karenga and his group backed one candidate for dept. head and the Panthers another. Both began carrying guns on campus and on Jan. 17. 1969, about 150 students gathered at the lunchroom to discuss the problem. Two Panther members had been admitted to the college as part of a federal program that helped black high-school dropouts enter the university. The meeting turned violent and ended with two of Karenga’s group, George P. Stiner and Larry Joseph Stiner killing two. The Stiner brothers shot two Panthers John Huggins, 23 and Alprentice "Bunchy" Carter, 26 – dead.

UCLA chancellor Charles E. Young, scared that the violence would hurt admissions said "The students here have handled themselves in an absolutely impeccable manner. They have been concerned. They haven’t argued who the director should be; they have been saying what kind of person he should be." The remarks were made after the shooting and the university went ahead with its Afro-American Studies Program. Meanwhile, Karenga’s group grew and performed assaults and robberies always following the law laid down in The Quotable Karenga, a book that laid out the "True Path of Blackness." "The sevenfold path of blackness is think black, talk black, act black, create black, buy black, vote black, and live black,"

On May 9, 1970 he initiated the torture session that led to his imprisonment. The torture session was described in the L.A. Times on May 14, 1971. "The victims said they were living at Karenga’s home when Karenga accused them of trying to kill him by placing crystals in his food and water and in various areas of his house. When they denied it, allegedly they were beaten with an electrical cord and a hot soldering iron was put in Miss Davis’ mouth and against her face. Police were told that one of Miss Jones’ toes was placed in a small vise, which then was tightened by the men and one woman. The following day Karenga told the women that ‘Vietnamese torture is nothing compared to what I know." Miss Tamao put detergent in their mouths; Smith turned a water hose full force on their faces, and Karenga, holding a gun, threatened to shoot both of them. The victims Deborah Jones and Gail Davis were whipped with an electrical cord and beaten with a karate baton after being ordered to remove their clothing."

Karenga was convicted of two counts of felonious assault and one count of false imprisonment. He was sentenced on Sept. 17, 1971 to serve one to ten years in prison. After being released from prison in 1975, he remade himself as Maulana Ron Karenga, went into academics, and by 1979 was running the Black Studies Department at California State University in Long Beach and converted to Marxism. Kwanzaa's seven principles include "collective work" and "cooperative economics." He is still there and everyone has almost forgotten the cruel and vicious attacks committed on his fellow blacks. Kwanzaa has been successfully marketed and is now heralded as a great African tradition.

The silver lining is that rather than "de-whitinizing" Christmas as Al Sharpton purported – it has polarized the holiday season -Hanukkah for Jews, Kwanzaa for Blacks, and Christmas for whites.

Robert Huntley, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, November 12, 2004 at 16:29:13 (UTC)

As a reply to Bob Gillies asking for memories of UDI, I was working at RTV at the time. Ian Smith came to the station to deliver his TV address. We had a teleprompter unit and someone knew how to type the speech into it. When the moment came to set it up for actual use, all eyes turned to me as the 'expat expert'. I had seen one work but had no idea how to do it. Pressure pressue. But we did get it to work eventually and the speech went on as planned.

Then when I returned to the UK at the end of my contract about 6 months later, I found that Harold Wilson's gang of incompetent thieves had frozen my bank account and was informed I was considered ' a rebel against the Crown' or some such fatuous phrase. Pity I destroyed the letter, it would make a great eBay item now.

It took about 6 months to straighten that out and I was out of the UK on the first plane.

In retrospect the whole UDI episode sheds as much light on the UK as it does on Central Africa. A country headed in a downward spiral by incompent, self serving, spineless, if not actually traitorous, politicians that would only worsen until Maggie Thatcher (for all her faults), gave the country back its future and some pride. And a functioning economy.

I'll send the couple of photos I have of a program at RTV just prior to UDI here when I find a moment.

David Hounsell, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, November 12, 2004 at 14:44:58 (UTC)

Jilly:

Knowing me as you do and knowing that I am the ultimate perfectionist, I hang my head in shame.. Funny thing is that when I go back to my notepad html and then view it through Explore, it looks fine. I can't figure out what I did wrong this time. I can barely bring myself to scroll down. Oh, the embarrassment. grin.

Mwizenge:

Thanks for the explanation about Kwanza. It is a pity that so many African Americans over here are not celebrating it in the way you describe. Any time now, I will see the usual end of year TV segment on it and it always explains it that they are celebrating Christmas in the African style. It's the same peeve I get when I see people lumping tigers in with African animals. I even have an "African theme" outfit that I did not notice until cutting the tags off that they have a tiger next to a lion in the embroidery. Grrrr.

Linda Hayes, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, November 12, 2004 at 12:55:58 (UTC)

Hi - all you Northerners, I just love reading all your interesting mail, oh what a life we hadin the good old days. Do any of you remember a polish lady who worked in the drycleaners in Kitwe, she had a daugter named Erica, and she used to do dressmaking. She made quite a few of my clothes. Also does anyone remeber the baker shop with the sliced bread in waxed paper, and the summer counter margarine. Also the coolie taylor shop which also sold grocerie items. My dad worked on the mines, we had such great Christmas parties. My friend's parents owned the boxing club and Club 97 or was it 67 their name was Ingram does anyone know of them as I am trying to get i touch with my friend Dot - Dorothy. I used to love swimming down the drains in the wet season. Also when the africans used to burn the grass and it would grow back a vivid green. I also enjoyed Christmas, I would go to Standard Tradin g to buy my mum a gift for 1 pound, it was usually bath salts of some sort, and we would always get a santa box - pink for girls, blue for boys, full of rubbish of course but we loved it. Enough of the great mememories, keep up the good work everyone, we had a great life - Christina Dillon - maiden name Hulme.

Christina Dillon, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, November 12, 2004 at 11:51:04 (UTC)

Linda,

Not only can you not do HTML (I have not even bothered to try!) but this must be a Pommie Braai as you can't spell boerewors either!

Margaret,
Valerie married (can't remember her married name) and was running Kasaba bay at some stage - ages ago and her parents Fred and Audrey live in Que Que, now Kwe Kwe - but I haven't seen or heard from them all for about 25 years. If you do get in touch with Valerie, please let me know. Linda has a friend at Kasaba I think, maybe he will know where valerie is?

Happy birthday to all those celebrating today.

JIlly

Jill Aplin, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, November 12, 2004 at 09:34:50 (UTC)

Alix yes I recieved it minus a post code but Markni Sarkni.

Bwana Shoe Shine Not so little, Bwana Grins.

Johnny, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, November 12, 2004 at 08:37:46 (UTC)

David Gray
What a wonderful device....is it on the market yet, if not when ?

Ali Key, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, November 12, 2004 at 06:47:55 (UTC)

HAPPY BIRTHDAY BWANA SHOE SHINE

Meet me in the bushes at Fiona's. I have a little pressie for you.. grin.

Linda Hayes, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, November 12, 2004 at 04:53:52 (UTC)

PRIDE OF THE ARMADA .........

In early January 1965, the S.S. Kenya of the British Indian Steam Navigation Company, better known as the BI Line was tied up at the dock in Cadiz, Spain.

The crisp white hulled Kenya, with its distinctive black funnel with two white bands near the top, looked majestic. In contrast, the grey winter skies blended with the black polluted oil slicked waters and the garbage strewn dock with it drab delapidated dirty brown stone warehouses.

Most of the passengers had just finished lunch when word spread that a Spanish frigate had entered the harbour. Many rushed up on deck and watched the Spanish man o' war make her way, unaided by tugs to attempt docking at the wharf which was at a right angle to the Kenya's bow.

After several attempts the filthy salt encrusted war ship with black tar like smoke belching from her funnel positioned herself parralel to the dock and a lusty cheer went up from the assembled passengers.

Little did we realise that this was just the start of the seamanship demonstration by the inept crew. A line was thrown , only to fall short into the oily water which lapped at the side of the dock. An enthusiastic cheer erupted from the passengers. A second, a third and a fourth attempt was made to throw the line, each time the cheering grew louder, much to the consternation of the captain who could be heard shouting obscenities and seen pacing frantically on the open bridge.

Spain's naval pride was at stake. The captain in an attempt to save face, flew from the open bridge to the stern deck, snatched the line from an not so able seaman and with a mighty heave threw the line towards the dock. The tension mounted and again the crowd cheeered as the line splashed back into the water below. Meanwhile the frigate was drifting further from the dock.

Three or four officers rushed to their commander's side and after much hand waiving they summoned another fine rating. The rating rushed of to return within minutes with a gun. The cheering passengers on the Kenya fell silent trying to anticipate what the gallant captain would order. We realised quickly that it was not the intent to execute any of the passengers, rather they used the gun to shoot a line ashore, where several sailors pounced on the line, saving the day and hauled in the rope to secure the frigate to the wharf. A louder cheer erupted, before the passengers sought the warmth of the bar to toast the Pride of the Armada.

Kenneth Miller, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, November 12, 2004 at 02:26:20 (UTC)

DOUG Thanks for the trouble taken re the old Aldon in Berlin and your fathers tale from so long ago.( He was certainly cutting it fine to remain there till 37 considering the climate in Germany at that time) I knew the history of the hotel but had no idea of the outcome after the Russian occupation of that sector of Berlin, there is no reference to this in English. Its a very sad ending to such a success story. However the new Aldon, although not quite so grand, would do all the old boys proud.
The man from Fife squirming nervously in the chair on Mastermind was asked by Magnus , ( trying to break the ice and make him relax ) " Cumphy?" Immediate reply " Dundee" ! Nothing changes, canny loons from your neck of the woods for sure.
LAURA : May I join you in raising my glass to Iain on this day? ( We still raise a glass to the Prince Over the Water on the Old New Year (12th January, proper calender) in the Highlands). Perhaps both hopeless causes but many of us still hold them dear in our hearts

Colin Munro, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, November 12, 2004 at 02:11:18 (UTC)

Hey you Northeners has anyone heard this one? Shades of sleepy hot days in the middle of Africa!!!
The Monkey & the lizard....

A monkey is sitting in a tree smoking a joint when a lizard walks past
and looks up and says to the monkey "hey! what are you doing?" The
monkey says "smoking a joint, come up and have some." So the lizard
climbs up and sits next to the monkey and they have a few joints.
After a while the lizard says his mouth is 'dry' and is going to get a
drink from the river. The lizard is so stoned that he leans too far over
and falls into the river. A Crocodile sees this and swims over to the
lizard and helps him to the side, then asks the lizard, "what's the
matter with you?" The lizard explains to the crocodile that he was
sitting smoking a joint with the monkey in the tree, got too stoned and
then fell into the river while taking a drink. The crocodile says he
has to check this out and walks into the jungle, finds the tree where
the monkey is sitting, finishing a joint, and he looks up and says "hey
you!" The Monkey looks down and says "faaaaaaark dude.......how much
water did you drink?!!"

Happy birthday Rhodesia, & R.I. P.

Say does anyone play cricket in the old US of A? What are the structures over there? I hear that you lot are co-hosting with the W. Indies for the next World cup series. Do they have a lot about? I know they have quite a lot in Canada, but thought that the culture had not been imported south of the line. I know some Rondebosch boys were the toast of the town they stayed in when it was discovered that they played Rugby. Do they do the same for cricketers? I have heard of a 6-a-side tournament taking place in Florida, does anyone have info on that?
Hey Linda -why are you going to the UK at such a bad time of the year.? wish you were going in the summer when we will be back there. Perhaps we can organise another get together when it is a little warmer, next year. We will be in Surrey- so stay in touch.
regards,

Jurina Lang, New Zealand [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, November 12, 2004 at 02:00:00 (UTC)

Doug Grewar...
can you email me your snail address please.......oh and Johnny did you get mine ??

Ali Key, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, November 12, 2004 at 01:37:11 (UTC)

HAPPY BIRTHDAY LEAH !!!!! 11 YEARS OLD TODAY..............OH AND NOT FORGETTING....KEVIN SHONE.....HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU TOO....(I thought about putting your age but then ????........giggles) HOPE YOU BOTH HAVE A WONDERFUL DAY

Ali Key, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, November 12, 2004 at 00:59:36 (UTC)

Sorry everyone. I messed up the html big time. Hopefully you get the message.

Linda Hayes, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, November 11, 2004 at 23:17:20 (UTC)

LAST CHANCE, CHUMS!
READY FOR SOME BOERWORS AND BOOZE?
Fiona Gayther and Linda Hayes invite you to
"THE TYTHERINGTON TIYENDE"
(A Pommie Braai with an African Theme)
Saturday, November 27, 2004
at
Fiona’s Country Home
in
Tytherington
(North of Bristol, just off the M5)

Time: 4:30pm until you drop
Cost: £12 per person

(Yes, we know it’s bloody cold at that time of year, but what better way to keep warm than laughter, booze, food, good company?)

We are supplying food and booze, but strongly recommend that you bring extra booze. Northerners drink a lot!! (Especially Linda, Fiona, Tina and Diane)

Fiona is willing to assist with making hotel reservations in the immediate area and work on taxis for the "motherless" at the end of the party. But you need to contact Fiona ASAP if you want to come.

Remember, if you are a GNR member, you are never a stranger! Come and have fun with us. Anyone is welcome!

The Mfazis of Mayhem Strike Again!

Linda Hayes, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, November 11, 2004 at 23:16:09 (UTC)

Mwizengi,

After the remonstations from the providers of this Website I thought that political references were to be expunged. You wrote thusly,

"To think that UDI gave us Mugabe."

You got Mugabe not from UDI but the pusillanimous words and actions of people like Harold Wilson, Lord Carrington and Henry Kissinger. If you really want to read somthing of that time, get out your Hansard Parliamentary Reports.

In 1965 I returned to Rhodesia and interviewed Ian Smith for KPOL Radio/TV in Los Angeles. It was not a coup but a matter of decelarating what would become a disaster. In 1973 I was auditing a class on African Affairs aat UCLA. The subject "Was Colonialism Good or Bad for sub-Saharan Africa." My paper was in the affirmative.... the Professor in opposition....he had never been to Southern Africa.

Can anyone honestly say that Africa would be better off today, without the influx of Europeans of a century or more ago?

Robert Huntley, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, November 11, 2004 at 22:38:43 (UTC)

Ayub

They were RAF Gloster Javelins.

http://www.britishpathe.com/product_display.php?searchword=raf+zambia&Search.x=40&Search.y=32

Use the above link to the Pathe website (all on one line) for the story. You van download the preview quality movie for free.

If that link doesn't take you there directly go to http://www.britishpathe.com and search for: raf zambia

Regards Ian

Ian Singer, Scotland [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Thursday, November 11, 2004 at 22:35:22 (UTC)

Mwizenge,
You are right..so many people of all races lost their lives as a consequence. My only recollection was that of some jet fighters flying overhead some time after the event. I later learnt that they were from the RAF. I assume they must have been using the old Airport as they did make a lot of noise. Anyone know what make they were and where were they flying to?

Ayub Ismail Zumla, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, November 11, 2004 at 21:59:00 (UTC)

When UDI was declared in 1965, I was in Grade 6 at Tamanda Primary School. We had endured almost one year of unprecedented tension and uncertainty in the country just after Independence in October 1964. There was talk in Zambia that the border to Rhodesia would be closed. Then the “Hell Run” started. Zambia exported goods by an unpaved road to Dar-es-Salaam. The war of words and insults were fierce as I remember radio Zambia calling Ian Smith names. Radio Rhodesia and RSA in turn called Kaunda names. For years on radio Zambia, the news reports started: “Rebel Leader Ian Smith……” and worse. It’s a shame that so much human blood had to be shade before UDI was ended. It was all so pointless as there were so many unnecessary deaths. If you want to know more about the Rhodesian situation, I reviewed the following book for a journal in the early 80s. David Caute, Under the Skin: The Death of White Rhodesia, 1983. Toward the end of the book on page 446, the author had a very grim prospect for Ndebele-Shona integration. To think that UDI gave us Mugabe. The number of people that died in the war of liberation on both sides were such a tragedy. I hope that when you make that toast it is more out of that you survived these tragedies but also teach your children and others that UDI was a tragedy.

Mwizenge Tembo, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Thursday, November 11, 2004 at 21:42:04 (UTC)

Margaret Botha

Wendy Davidson.
Is she married to Guy or Barry Davidson by any chance? Also from Kitwe
Or anyone related to them
Guy was an old mucker of mine and I’m trying to track him down

Mike Slement, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, November 11, 2004 at 21:21:40 (UTC)

Doug/Ken,
A group of cowboys are drinking away in a saloon bar when suddenly someone outside is heard shouting "Injuns...Injuns"! They all take cover and cock their guns in anticipation. The saloon door swings open and in walks a man wearing a turban and carrying a basket ,yelling " samosas,tandoori chicken......."!

It is the Hindu festival of Diwali tomorrow so let us wish our Hindu friends on the GNR Happy Diwali and "Sawan Mubarak" (Happy New Year)

Ayub Ismail Zumla, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, November 11, 2004 at 21:15:29 (UTC)

The version I heard goes something like:
The Lone Ranger and Tonto were encircled by whooping Indians,
Lone Ranger: "Looks like we're in trouble Tonto"
Tonto: "Whadya nean WE, white eyes?"

Ken Fernie, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, November 11, 2004 at 20:29:38 (UTC)

Johnny
The Lone Ranger was on patrol with Tonto when they saw some smoke signals rising. The LR asked Tonto if he could read them but Tonto replied in his best Bombay accent, "No Sahib, I am not that kind of an Indian!"

Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, November 11, 2004 at 20:11:55 (UTC)

I was serving in the Rhodesian army when UDI was declared. I was in the army M T Workshops as an apprentice. We were all told that we had to meet in the day room where a speech was to be made by the government. As I was still a teenager I admit I did not take a lot of notice of what Ian Smith said. There were some very worried looking people in the room and also a lot more very happy ones. I only heard of one man who requested that he be allowed to leave the army. As soon as the news got out that he was leaving his life became hell. I have to admit that he took it all without a word in return, and soon thing got better for him. He was still not spoken too unless it was to do with work, and he served the months notice required. I did not really take it in at the time, but I was there when history was made.

Donald Sydney, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, November 11, 2004 at 20:04:53 (UTC)

November 11th, Armistice day......Veterans day in the States but always in my heart -UDI a great day in my youth and the start of my 'grown up' life. We learnt a lot of hard lessons but stuck together through it and became better people (at least I think so) - you are all wonderful people and with your quick wit and funny sayings, make my mundane and boring life exciting.

Raise one to Ian Smith !!! a great friend and good man.

Laura Bannister

Laura Bannister, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, November 11, 2004 at 20:00:36 (UTC)

Would love to hear from Valerie Clark whom I was at school with at Kitwe Girls High. Valerie had a sister Beverly and her brother passed away when he was still very young.

Wendy Davidson (nee Coetzee) is looking for her friend Beverly Dennis whom she was at primary school with in Kitwe.

I would also love to hear from Duchenne Wilkinson.

Margaret Botha, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, November 11, 2004 at 19:52:40 (UTC)

Keith
Would that email still be doing the rounds if Kerry had won?

Average IQ of each state. Your rhetorical question ‘ Who knows’
Precisely.
Let me guess. I bet all the Red states are shown to be full of morons while the Blue ones are packed with geniuses

Mike Slement, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, November 11, 2004 at 19:28:01 (UTC)

God bless America
Land that I love
Stand beside her, and guide her
Thru the night with a light from above.
From the mountains, to the prairies
To the oceans, white with foam
God bless America, my home sweet home!

I echo the sentiments of Robert Summers...

Helen: Indian by ethnicity, Yank by choice, and always, African in my heart.

Helen D'Cruz, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, November 11, 2004 at 19:05:33 (UTC)

Bob

I think you will find that UDI was 1965 not 1964

Hartley Heaton, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, November 11, 2004 at 18:38:19 (UTC)

I am sure in the distant past I have told you these stories, but for the Timber Wood fans I will repeat them, We worked together on High speed Development on one of the levels we had just laid the concrete at knock off time the crew were off like long dogs down the haulage, Timber said hang on a minute and produced a plastic doll from his Chola bag and walked it over the freshly laid cement to leave the little footprints, next morning the crew spotted them and swore a tokolosh had been down there during the night with his baby, what a job we had to get them back to work in there, another time I remember he brought down his tape recorder with a tape of dogs howling and hid it in a crevice and as the crew got close he switched it on you can imagine the faces of the lads 2000 feet under ground and dogs howling like Banshees we had to threaten to fire them before we got them back at the face and working again does any one know where he is now? God Bless Him. Johnny.

Johnny, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, November 11, 2004 at 16:47:23 (UTC)

My dear Leah many happy returns of the day and may you have many more of them Uncle Johnny XX

Johnny, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, November 11, 2004 at 16:24:18 (UTC)

40 years ago today UDI was declared in Southern Rhodesia - just in case any GNR's were there then.
3 cheers for Ian - I'll drink to him again tonite

Bob Gillies, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, November 11, 2004 at 15:25:10 (UTC)

That anti-USA thing Donald posted has been doing the rounds on e-mail for ages so I expect it was posted in fun not out of vindictiveness. I received another e-mail yesterday giving average IQ for each state in the USA and whether that state had voted for Bush or Kerry. It was pretty amazing, if not staggering, and purported to be fair dinkum but who knows.

Keith Binns, United Arab Emirates [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, November 11, 2004 at 14:29:22 (UTC)

Lizzie Leah

Happy happy birthday!!!

Fiona

He was just teasing???? There I was watching for all the stamps to change to crowned heads. I guess that's what you get for being gullible huh?

Tina Magee, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, November 11, 2004 at 13:49:14 (UTC)

Thanks Fiona

Donald Sydney, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, November 11, 2004 at 13:32:34 (UTC)

In defence of Donald's posting, it was so obviously tongue in cheek. Maybe if someone made a similar posting about the UK everyone would laugh because the poms know how to laugh at themselves. As for it being germane (not German, they don't know how to laugh at themselves), so what? There are occasionally ungermane postings on the GNR.

Fiona Gayther, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, November 11, 2004 at 11:39:48 (UTC)

GREAT SITE BUT IT WOULD BE EVEN BETTER IF A FEW OKIES FROM LIVINGSTONE WOULD POST A MESSAGE, WHERE ARE YOU ALL?GOD BLESS YOU ALL REGARDS BENJIE FERGUSSON

Benjie Fergusson, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, November 11, 2004 at 09:25:50 (UTC)

Linda,
I used to be skeptical of Kwanza too for a long time until recently. The Brethren Church congregation here in the area, whose founders are white and originally from Germany in the 1700s, asked me to make a presentation on Kwanza last December. I have made numerous presentations on Zambian/African culture through storytelling. I just did one last week at an Elementary School festival. But I didn’t know anything about Kwanza besides the common public misconceptions.

To cut a long story short, all the books state categorically that Kwanza in NOT an African celebration nor did it come from Africa. It does not replace Christmas or any other holiday among African Americans. It was founded by a young black American graduate student, Maulana Karenga, in 1967 after the violent riots in the Watts black ghetto in Los Angeles in which many blacks were killed. It was in the wake of the turmoil of the 1960s that Kwanza was founded. The aim of Kwanza was to offer an avenue for African Americans to unite and to create something positive to celebrate their heritage in their communities. All other groups and communities are also invited to celebrate it too. The seven principles of Kwanza are Swahili words based on the ethos of African traditional communal culture. I wish I had known about Kwanza when I was a party animal when I first came to the US. It would have been a good excuse for me to continue to get drunk for seven days after Christmas day. I am glad that none of you know of my past wild life. There was a joke in Lusaka one time in the 1970s that if Tembo and another friend who is now in Leeds, did not gate crash at your party, then it meant your party was not good enough. (these last few lines are meant to be jokes). Because of my profession, I can’t help but recommend a couple books. They would be good for your grand kids during this coming holiday season.

1) The Childern of Kwanza: A Guide to Celebrating the Holiday by Dolores Johnson (1996)
2) The Seven Days of Kwanza: How to Celebrate them by Angela Self Medearis (1994)
3) The Complete Kwanza: Celebrating our Cultiral Harvest, Dorothy Winbush Riley (1995)
4) Kwanza: An African-American Celebration of Culture and Cooking by Eric V. Copage(1991)

I hope this helps.

Mwizenge Tembo, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Thursday, November 11, 2004 at 05:15:10 (UTC)

Beautiful posting, Phil.

I have two germane things to contribute tonight and neither of them are about males... ha! ha!

Can anyone tell me what countries in Africa follow the tradition of "Kwanza." I must admit that I had never heard of it until I immigrated over her to the States, but every year the African Americans over here (no offense intended to anyone by that remark) get all immersed in Kwanza. They dress up in African costumes and have all these elaborate celebrations of Kwanza while basking in the connection to their roots. It just seems so superficial to me. Meaningless if you have never set foot in Africa. What's it all about?

Richard Bransom, of Virgin Airlines, has a new reality show on the telly over here. I don't know what it is called but is SHOULD be called 'How Stupid Can You Be?" He is challenging a group of people to perform the most outrageous and, I am sure, dangerous stunts that should never be attempted by anyone, let alone these people. They are competing to be the CEO of his company. Last night, one of the stunts was to climb out of a moving stunt plane, stand on the wings without, yes without, a safety harness and one girl in one of the planes had to pass a baton to another girl while the plane was upside down and she was strapped into a seat. I take my hat off to them, but it seems bloody stupid to risk your life like that. The germane part is that next week they are off to Africa. I am presuming it is the Zambian side of the Victoria Falls, but may be the Zim side. According to Bransom, they are going to compete in a stunt never before attempted. Going over the Falls in a barrel. Has this been done before? Of course, it is not your everyday barrel, but still...

Linda Hayes, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, November 11, 2004 at 04:14:45 (UTC)

In Flanders Fields

In Flander's Fields the poppies grow
Between the crosses, row on row
That mark our place,and in the sky
The larks still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved, and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders Fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe
To you from failing hands we throw
The Torch: be yours to hold it high!
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flander's Fields.
John McCray.

WE WILL REMEMBER THEM
John Jack R.I.P.

To The Fallen.

They shall grow not old
as we that are left grow old;
Age shall not weary them,
nor the years condemn.
At the gowing down of the sun
and in the morning
We will remember them.
Laurence Binyon.

Philip Pain, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, November 11, 2004 at 03:17:28 (UTC)

Donald Sydney, Give it a rest. You don't like Americans, anything manufactured in America and you probably think the Daily Mirror is a "jolly fine paper".

As one member of the NR/Zambia crew, I really don't care. It reads like you might have heard or read it before somewhere, maybe a Chirac Press release.

Can we stick with the premise of this site, PLEASE.

Bob Summers, Brit by birth, Yank by choice, but more important, African in my heart.

Robert Summers, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, November 11, 2004 at 03:10:58 (UTC)

Mike Slement,

Re your take on witchcraft reminds me of an event at Nchanga sometime around 1959/60. Simon was a bossboy on a scaping team on the 970 Level at Nchanga. Anglo were going ahead full steam with their African Advancement program and Simon was an obvious choice for promotion although he had limited literacy skills. However he was a born leader and much respected by both black and white.

One day he reported to work with his right arm completely paralysed. He was instructed to go down to the African hospital for an examination. There seemed to be no physical trauma, so he was then sent over to the European hospital where an Anglo doctor from Johannesburg examined him, again finding no cause for his affliction.

On questioning him further I discovered that he had been in disagreement with an in-law and was convinced that a spell had been put upon him. I asked him what we should do and he told me that if he could back to his village and see his witch-doctor we might be able to get him back to normal. I called up Arthur Short, the Personnel Manager of the mine and requested permission to drive him up to Solwezi and spend ten pounds of the mine's money to get rid of the curse. He agreed.

We drove for several hours, I think the village was named Mehedi, famous later on as a refugee camp for Angolans displaced by their civil war. I stayed with the DC in Solwezi and Simon went off to the village.

Two days later I picked him up.... he was waving his arm like a symphony conductor. Don't sell short that this mutu doesn't work.

Robert Huntley, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, November 11, 2004 at 01:58:35 (UTC)

Donald Sydney,

Aaaah ,give over mate.

This anti-American stuff really burns me ass.

And thats that for me.

Political trash.

Bill

William Knott, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, November 11, 2004 at 00:24:40 (UTC)

Just catching up ob the board having been at a three day conference with 110 University IT Directors - booooring....

Craig...

I am very interested in what Tina suggested as a winter job for me.

It better be better than my current winter job of being surrounded by aproximately 2,200 twenty year old catholic maidens....

Peter Dielissen, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, November 10, 2004 at 23:56:54 (UTC)

Lizd

They were killed because he used to go over the border to Southern Rhodesia a lot, visiting his parents. The men and women who worked for him loved him and suffered greatly after those deaths.

Perhaps they thought he was a spy - who can know the mind of the guerillas in those days - he was placed on a "Death List" along with others - the lists which included his name and that of other of targets were found together with buried guns in a stash somewhere in the bush some months later. The police informed us that the perpetrators were found and dealt with.

Those were terrible years.

Esther Pettersson, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, November 10, 2004 at 22:00:44 (UTC)

Doug
I know naaaaaaaaaaaating! But it just so happens that I have an idea of who to ask. Now that I believe you are referring to Ola Rostdadt.
If only I can remember the story when I get there....

Lyn Chaos Mayoss
My brother, who is a lazy bone idle git, tells me that he remembers you from Rallying days in Lusaka. Not only that, you came up to Luanshya (yes, there are other parts of the Copperbelt other than Chingola) for his wedding. David (Gregory) married Carol Battersby ex Lusaka and I was one of the bridesmaids along with her sisters Tess and Sue. He keeps on telling me to mention him on the website and I keep on telling him to get off his btm and do it himself. After so long, it's obvious that he's never going to do it himself.

Slightly diversifying....
On one of our recent trips back to Z, we were staying in Lusaka with Scotty & Ann Campbell before catching the BA flight the next morning, when I asked Scotty if he knew my sister-in-law's sister (complicated, I know) Tess, who I had heard was now married to Mike Malloghan. He laughed and took me by my hand and led me to one of his pictures hanging in the lounge. 'That,' he told me, 'is painted by Tess'. This led to a quick drive round the corner to meet Tess, Mike and kids. What an amazing reunion that was. My extended family! Scotty, who I've known and loved since I was knee-high to a grasshopper, didn't know that my brother had loooong ago married Carol, Tess' sister. I'd seen those paintings at Scotty's house so many times over so many years and never realised! Maybe next month when we go back, we'll catch up with them again with our girls and they can meet their extended family in true Zambian fashion!

So, big bro, if you see this, I've passed on your message to Chaos Mayoss!

Lizd, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, November 10, 2004 at 21:37:15 (UTC)

Esther
Such a sad tale. I don't suppose that anyone will ever know why. Wrong place, wrong time. Wrong friends. Disgruntled employees. Extended family. No, doesn't bear thinking of. Just so tragic. And a waste of valuable lives.

Lizd, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, November 10, 2004 at 21:07:38 (UTC)

POSTING BY EVE

To lighten the mood a litte after previous post. Dave and Muriel would like that.

Two Items

I like to get drunk in the middle of the day It makes you see life in a whole different way You can reminisce or stare into space And not care whether it’s the time or the place Your ambition is shot and you don’t have a plan But quite frankly my dear, you don’t give a damn.

Eve Carra

A little ditty I wrote co-incidently while having a midday drink

My Magic Place

Kafue Game Park 1979

It had been a wonderful day. I had been on both the early morning and late afternoon drives through the park viewing our beautiful wildlife, always thrilling, our driver in the open landrover expertly negotiating his way along the narrow bush trails. Early evening was upon us. Leaving my friend to watch over our kids after the dust of the trail I was able to have a leisurely shower. I washed my hair and carefully chose what I would wear for the evening meal. I chose my long navy and white paisley patterned skirt, linen shirt and silver belt. I felt so refreshed and alive. I dressed, did my makeup and with bottle of whiskey and glass to hand sat down on a nearby wall to watch the sun go down into the river while slowly sipping a drink. I sat there and watched yet another glorious Zambian sunset (always been the best in the world and I have been to many countries), Fish eagles glided in the sky and their haunting cries penetrated the air. Occasional grunts and snarls were heard as the wildlife began their night, either to sleep or to hunt.

As I sat there literally feeling pretty and witty and young I said aloud, “Oh God, how lucky I am, please let me be here at least one more time before I die, exactly right here.” (Not that I believe in a God anymore.) I was not to know then that that memory would become part of my psyche and I can and do go there anytime I choose. I go there completely, body, mind and soul. Now that’s magic!

Regards Eve

Esther Pettersson, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, November 10, 2004 at 21:01:33 (UTC)

Mwizenge
That was a very touching tale - I can see a little boy, so excited on the bus trip with no time to even consider being sick - riding all the bumps in the road like a rodeo rider and feeling mild contempt for the lesser mortals who couldn't hack it. And then the so long walk on a dusty bush path, in the heat, with your Mother saying the same as all Mothers say 'Nearly there now. Over that hill. Round the next bend'. Anything to keep little legs with burning bare feet going, just that little bit further. An epic journey for a little boy.

Lizd, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, November 10, 2004 at 20:54:17 (UTC)

NOTICE OF REVOCATION OF INDEPENDENCE

To the citizens of the United States of America,

In the light of your failure to elect an intelligent President of the USA and thus to govern yourselves, we hereby give notice of the revocation of your independence, effective today.

Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II will resume monarchical duties over all states, commonwealths and other territories. Except Utah, which she does not fancy. Your new prime minister (The rt. hon. Tony Blair, MP
for the 97.85% of you who have until now been unaware that there is a world outside your borders) will appoint a minister for America without the need for further elections. Congress and the Senate will be disbanded. A questionnaire will be circulated next year to determine
whether any of you noticed.

To aid in the transition to a British Crown Dependency, the following rules are introduced with immediate effect:

1. You should look up "revocation" in the Oxford English Dictionary.
Then look up "aluminium". Check the pronunciation guide. You will be amazed at just how wrongly you have been pronouncing it. Generally, you should raise your vocabulary to acceptable levels. Look up "vocabulary".
Using the same twenty seven words interspersed with filler noises such as "like" and "you know" is an unacceptable and inefficient form of communication. Look up "interspersed".

2. There is no such thing as "US English". We will let Microsoft know on your behalf.

3. You should learn to distinguish the English and Australian accents. It really isn't that hard.

4. Hollywood will be required occasionally to cast English actors as the good guys.

5. You should relearn your original national anthem, "God Save The Queen", but only after fully carrying out task 1. We would not want you to get confused and give up half way through.

6. You should stop playing American "football". There is only one kind of football. What you refer to as American "football" is not a very good game.

The 2.15% of you who are aware that there is a world outside your borders (i.e. ex-Zambians & N.Rhodesians) may have noticed that no one else plays "American" football. You will no longer be allowed to play it, and should instead play proper football.

Initially, it would be best if you played with the girls. It is a
difficult game. Those of you brave enough will, in time, be allowed to play rugby (which is similar to American "football", but does not involve stopping for a rest every twenty seconds or wearing full kevlar body armour like nancies). We are hoping to get together at least a US rugby sevens side by 2005.

7. You should declare war on Quebec and France, using nuclear weapons if they give you any merde. The 98.85% of you who were not aware that there is a world outside your borders should count yourselves lucky. The Russians have never been the bad guys. "Merde" is Frenc for "sh*t".

8. July 4th is no longer a public holiday. November 8th will be a new national holiday, but only in England. It will be called "Indecisive Day".

9. All American cars are hereby banned. They are crap and it is for your own good. When we show you European & Far East cars, you will understand what we mean. (There are no British car any more)

10. Please tell us who killed JFK. It's been driving us crazy.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Donald Sydney, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, November 10, 2004 at 20:33:39 (UTC)

Margaret Botha

Welcome to the GNR. It is wonderful to see that you have joined the rest of us on this wonderful site.

This is a wonderful blast from the past. I spent many happy days with all of you at your house in Nkana.

I think I last saw you at our wedding. That was many years ago!!! I think that you are on the cine that was taken of our wedding.

Drop me a line on our email address, would love to hear all your news. That is of course if you remember me.

Ada Cantrell (nee Wienand}

Ada Cantrell, England [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, November 10, 2004 at 20:11:26 (UTC)

Thought you might be interested!

Thankfully my test appears to have worked so here is the full text. I am a Fellow of the SA Institute of Electrical Engineers and serve on the Western Cape Committee. Tomorrow is the final meeting of the year and it will be held at the University of Cape Town. Four papers will be presented by University students. The one being presented by Gareth Andrew Nicholson of the University of Stellenbosch is as follows:

Title: Automatic Position Reporting System (APRS) for Anti-Poaching Operations

Presenter: Gareth Andrew Nicholson

Grumeti Reserve borders on the northern Serengeti. Meat poachers hunting with bow and poisoned arrows pose a serious threat to the eco-system. In an effort to stem the poaching, certain guards patrol the reserve incognito as typical poachers. However, radios or tell-tale equipment will foil the intended disguise. Thus Grumeti has requested the development of a prototype tracking device, concealed inside an arrow quiver intended to be carried by the disguised patrol guards. Hence the basis for this project.

The prototype is a user independent Automatic Position Reporting System (APRS) consisting of a GPS receiver, VHF radio, modem and embedded microcontroller that have been integrated and packaged to form a robust, compact unit complete with in-circuit rechargeable batteries. In short, the unit relays its current position to a base station. GPS co-ordinates are transmitted at predefined intervals across the existing radio network to a software server which plots them as a dot on a GUI area map. This project focuses on the successful integration and interfacing of all components, power saving techniques, antenna design, network coverage analysis and packaging of the device.

For those unimpressed by technology, don't shoot the messenger - just scroll down!

Cheers

David Gray, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, November 10, 2004 at 20:09:44 (UTC)

Test

If the following works I will post the whole message. If it doesn't then oops, apologies to Craig and Arthur!!!

Automatic Position Reporting System (APRS) for Anti-Poaching Operations

David Gray, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, November 10, 2004 at 19:56:27 (UTC)

Hans
Thank you. Of course it was Jesse Owens. I thought Jesse Jackson sounded wrong. Just now I'll be getting him mixed up with Michael Jackson.

Norman
Thanks for unmixing me about the 2 Olas. It was Ola Rostad not Ola Martin who had the snake pit. This is the only time I have ever heard the name Ola and both of them were in Mufulira. Ole!

As Norman reminds me Ola Martin got married to Danielle Pannicco the son of Paul Panicco the Muf garage owner, ex Congo.

Mike
Witchcraft is still strongly believed in here. Anybody spilling or placing anything near the goal posts before a soccer match is liable to be lynched.

Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, November 10, 2004 at 18:10:38 (UTC)

Chinyerezi Chintu
“vocalones from BH”? ‘Poli poli’ while walking that line, laddie!
Vocal is ‘of or related to the voice’. As I know you’ve never heard this BHer’s voice, I can only assume you meant ‘volcanoes from BH’. Martin Brown (the Irishman) would be proud of you! Where is Chinsali anyway? I know it never fell within the ambit of the ‘centre of the known universe’.

Ida Pullen,
Although I never knew your father, my condolences on his passing. I’m sure he will never be forgotten.
Regards

Charles Cartmill, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, November 10, 2004 at 15:53:32 (UTC)

Ida Pullen,

My commiserations on the death of your father John Pullen. I never knew him but my 3 years in Zambia revolved around the Rampant Lion (Nchanga Rugby Club). It was a memorable part of my life.
RIP

Keith Binns, United Arab Emirates [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, November 10, 2004 at 15:25:27 (UTC)

Mwizenge

Dave's mine was in the Chongwe area east of Lusaka.

Esther Pettersson, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, November 10, 2004 at 11:56:36 (UTC)

I wonder how many people ever went or stayed in Chinsali. Most people on GRN are from the copperbelt and a few vocalones from BH

There must be some people who actually lived in Chinsali!!! I know Doug may have been there at one time or another. Are there any more out there?

I would like to here from them

Chinyerezi Chintu, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, November 10, 2004 at 11:36:46 (UTC)

Viv Buitendag

Viv your computer is sending out a virus ........
Hope you and the family are well.

Mwizenge

Loved your story and I'm sure if your Mom could of carried you she would have.......

Esther

Lovely story - so sad, brought tears to my eyes. They sounded such a lovely family.

Linda / Fiona

Looking forward to seeing you all in a few weeks.

Gary

Are you going??????????

Glenda Fenwick, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, November 10, 2004 at 10:29:19 (UTC)

John Pullen died on 18 October 2004 in Durban, aged 88 years. He was a founder-member of the Rampant Lion Rugby Club in Chingola.

Ida Pullen, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, November 10, 2004 at 10:22:10 (UTC)

Doug
I think you got your wires crossed. It was not Jesse Jackson who won the 100m at the 1936 Berlin Olympics, but Jesse Owens. He also won the 200m and the long jump much to Hitler's annoyance.

Hans Kunzle, Cyprus [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, November 10, 2004 at 09:20:01 (UTC)

Mwizenge

I have the newspaper report of this atrocity at home - I will get the name later on and post on GNR

Esther Pettersson, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, November 10, 2004 at 03:31:53 (UTC)

Would anyone know where Annette Wong or Annette Jere is? She had been married to a Zambian. I worked with her at the National Food and Nutrition Commission in Lusaka from 1972 to 1975. She left Zambia in 1974. She may have gone to Hawaii. I would really be glad to get in touch with her again. She was one of those rare workmates who had a great sense of humor. If anyone knows her where abouts let me know.

She had a little 3 year old girl with gorgeous gold skin. The little girl's name was Laura. Last I heard the girl was going to boarding school in either in Sweden or Switzerland.

Mwizenge Tembo, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Wednesday, November 10, 2004 at 02:56:22 (UTC)

Linda,
After I posted my message, I knew I shouldn't even have tried. I was never good at math.

Lynn Szeftel
Are you related to Szeftel who used to teach at University of Zambia in the 1970s? Last I heard was that Szeftel was at University of Leeds.

Sally,
Sorry for the tragic incident about Cath. The only consolation is that she was probably doing something or being in a place she loved. Thats often all we can hope for in life. I hope she gets well.

Ester,
A sad story. Was there a gold mine south of Lusaka?

Mwizenge Tembo, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ] [ Web ]
Wednesday, November 10, 2004 at 02:38:42 (UTC)

Hi Linda

We are indeed connected - the story of our brother-in-law Dave and the murder of his family came from my sister Eve Carra - Evelyn Pettersson - for some reason she hasn't been able to post them herself and asked me to do this for her. She has told me the stories will keep coming for as long as we want to read them.

Evelyn - THANK YOU - keep the stories coming - PLEASE - you have such a way with words.

Esther Pettersson, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, November 10, 2004 at 02:10:04 (UTC)

Mwizenge and Esther:

I went up the roller coaster with Mwizenge's posting of a childhood journey, and then down the roller coaster with the sad story about Muriel, Dave and Tammy.

Thank you both. It is all part of the magic of this site. We are intertwined by our life stories, experiences and the connection we have in our souls, regardless of what colour we are or where we are now.

It sure feels good to get back to the good old days here on the GNR. I can smell the fresh air and damp dirt already.

Linda Hayes, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, November 10, 2004 at 00:17:55 (UTC)

The last line meant that he never found a logical explanation for the story ,not for African witchcraft

Mike Slement, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, November 9, 2004 at 22:30:13 (UTC)

I believe that superstition and belief in witchcraft is still rife in parts of Southern Africa.This was certainly the case on our farm in Chisamba in the 1970’s
Our farm labourers were very wary of men that had no hair on the inside of their legs. Their legs were supposedly worn smooth because their owners spent their nights riding around on the backs of hyenas and indulging in witchcraft. Wilbur Smith (the man from the alleged centre of the universe) touches on this subject in a number of his novels.
My father had such a man working for him .I am not sure how smooth his legs were but he was always looked upon with awe and not a little fear by the other labourers. One evening one of our geese on the farm went missing. There were only 6 or 7 of them in the flock and it was very easy to spot if one was gone seeing as they always stayed together and always ate and slept near our farmhouse
The missing goose was found the next morning alive and apparently uninjured outside the front door of the alleged witchdoctor.This was a considerable distance from its normal pastures I am not really sure why it had made no attempt to return to the flock. Maybe it was actually injured
The most striking thing was a clear set of hyena footprints leading up to and away from the scene. To all intents and purposes a hyena had taken the goose away, did not kill or eat it but decided instead to leave it outside the front door of a grass hut. Not any hut but that of the man considered to be a witch or matagade.
The man might have set the whole thing up of course to scare the living daylights out of his colleagues, which seemed unnecessary as they were already terrified of him and did not need convincing. There were also far less risky ways of doing it than stealing livestock belonging to his employer.Geese are very noisy.
He was also a trusted and honest person regardless of what his fellow members thought of him.
My father told me this story. He had a healthy respect for African witchcraft and was less sceptical of it than most Europeans. He never found any logical explanation for it

Mike Slement, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, November 9, 2004 at 21:49:43 (UTC)

Arthur
Thanks for the photos! Johnny must be over the moon! And Charles writing poems about him, Nogal!
Don't forget the Mufulira guys with your next photos.

Esther
What a nice story about Jesse, but what a sad story about Dave, Muriel and Tammy.

Mwizenge
Excellent posting!

Ali
Kindly give Alice my greetings on her 18th birthday.

Frank
Re Timber Woods. I lived in the end flat next to Timber Woods. He used to work underground as a timberman if I remember right. I was only there a month or 2 also in the early 70's. We might have even met. Anyway seeing as you were paying the electric bill I will buy you a Beer or 3 if you are coming to the Kariba reunion.

Colin
Achtung! the following is German not germane so others can skip it if they so wish!

My Dad only left Berlin in 1937 after seeing the 1936 Olympic Games where the American Negro Jesse Jackson came first in the 100 metres much to Hitler's annoyance.

As you say the Adlon was far to highbrow for Hitler. He used to patronize the Kaizerhof. At this time the Adlon was one of the world’s 5 great hotels patronized by the rich and the famous. The other 4 were the Savoy in London, the Waldorf-Astoria in New York, the King George V in Paris, and another in Rome.

Dad was assigned to look after English speaking guests and met many famous people. Pola Negri recently divorced from Charlie Chaplin booked in for several months and Dad seems to have been on good terms with her. Douglas Fairbanks (movie star) and his ex-wife Mary Pickford also befriended Dad.

Dad got on well with the Germans but a French Nazi fellow trainee challenged him to a duel with swords. He accepted Dad's suggestion that they should settle the matter in the boxing ring. He was much bigger and thought he would win easily. However boxing was my Dad's sport and he soon taught froggie some manners.

Dad was a management trainee and Putzier and Kast were trainee waiters, assistants to him. I cut and paste the next 3 paragraphs from his memiors.

"I learned that my two colleagues were in contact with Putzier’s uncle, who was in charge of trade unionists and had fled to Holland. He had had correspondence from his uncle, mainly requesting family news, intercepted by the Gestapo, and he had been warned not to continue the contact. In the absence of a reply from Putzier the uncle wrote to Kast. This was also intercepted and a few days later, when they failed to appear for duty, I heard that they had been arrested by the Gestapo and asked my colleagues how I could visit them in Moabitz Prison. I was sent for by the Restaurant Manager, who warned me not to become involved in Police matters and not to visit my colleagues. I knew him to be a committed Nazi and, regretfully, never heard any more of my friends.

I was quite surprised one day when a Scottish guest, who had heard me speaking German to my friends, said to me, “Laddie, you speak quite good English for a German”! Putting on my broadest Scots accent I replied, “Eh cum frae Dundee, but dinna let on”! He was really shocked at that.

After the war I was distressed to hear that Herr Louis Adlon had been arrested by the invading Russian forces. Apparently one of his staff had addressed him as Generalissimo, a customary term of respect. The Russians hearing this thought he was a military General and deported him to a interment camp, where sadly, he died. He was one of the finest human beings I have ever known, a real gentleman, and I was sorry to hear of his undeserved death."

Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, November 9, 2004 at 20:55:34 (UTC)

Frank

Timber was not the only one with biltong hanging from his ceiling....! My Dad believed that it was the only way but made the mistake of choosing my bedroom ceiling. Besides the smell driving me insane the pieces got shorter and shorter (till I couldn't reach them anymore.!!) Now the smell and taste of a decent piece of biltong (which is very hard to come by, just not made the old fashioned way anymore) drives me crazy. The kind of memory that keeps you out of your sleep!!!!

Desi

Desiree Van der Spuy, South Africa [ Profile ] [