Northern Rhodesians Worldwide
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Message Board Archives
There are 320 messages displayed out of 58 549.
Rocky
There's always something new to learn about you. I never thought of you as a suspender. Hmmm - I'm seeing violet lace. I certainly never thought of you in suspenders and the mental image is, to say the least, arresting. That would put you more in line with Herr Flick of the Gestapo in the TV comedy "Allo, Allo" (about the German occupation of France) than with Adolf Hitler. Herr Flick spent at least one episode of the show in a teddy and stockings. Quite nice legs, actually. What are yours like in dark sheers and high heels?
I certainly would not recommend suspenders and pink flip flops - just little bit too caravan park. The intent of this message is to add levity and support. Little bit like a suspender really.
Craig, someone has to be the grown up in the playground, the designated driver at the party. I feel terrible for Glen. (Believe it or not as you will). Unfortunately, "why do these personal attacks happen repeatedly?" can't be as important here in the playground on the message board as the fact that they do and hurt feelings and interventions are the result. I hope Glen can get whatever help he needs not to change his alternate viewpoint but to see that lightning scathing personal attacks aren't appropriate to this venue.
Tina Magee, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, 1 July 2006 at 00:48:45 (UTC)
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Glen
Well it looks like I am too late by a day. I should have written this earlier. I just want to say that I am so glad you and Chris managed to find a safe place for your mother. Not an easy task at all. I know quite a bit about nursing homes and such (having had my own traumatic time working in one) and too many are very undesirable places to be. Usually understaffed and overworked people who have very little time to provide compassion. I made sure I did and guess what happened.
I do not remember your mother but her name sounds very familiar. I would have met her I am sure as was many times at the Nkana hospital for one reason or another.
A bumper sticker I read says "Be nice to your children, they will pick your nursing home". I guess it could go on and say "Or if you haven't any you'll have to make your own arrangements" (smile).
You mentioned something about Rod MaKeun (wrong spelling I know) This is what I have written in my very precious, very old, little book full of things I have read and written that I really wanted to remember. He is the author of this one.
Boxer
I should stay at home
behind the iron gates
and rainbow glass
Sure places I've constructed
The disappointments yet to come
can be lived by me in private
No one need know
if the wounds are fatal
or if I'm waiting out
some healing time
That I did not meet your expectations
makes me sorry
but I am not surprised
Still, why did you allow me
give me dispensation
to involve you in my life?
Regards
Evelyn
Evelyn Carra, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, 1 July 2006 at 02:40:41 (UTC)
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Someone here earlier today asked what the root cause was for Glen being chucked out. I have to confess that, in the cool of the evening, I can only say "I'm buggered if I know". Can somebody please encapsulate the series of events that lead to the end result?
I am off to Samoa for a few days for some R&R.
TTFN
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Fiona
I'll put something up today to enlighten you, and others.
Paudie Coughlan, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, 1 July 2006 at 03:49:07 (UTC)
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A scientist from Argentina, after a lengthy study, has discovered that people with insufficient brain and sexual activity read their e-mail with their hand on the mouse.
Don't bother taking it off now, it's too late.
Ivor de Witt, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, 1 July 2006 at 05:33:28 (UTC)
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There seem to be a number of people who don't see what happened, are crying foul, and claiming that the man was unfairly banned, and blaming Craig for being harsh and unreasonable. So, some explanation:
What provoked the attack?
This question was asked by Fiona, and I'm sure a number of others were thinking it. Well the answer is that nothing provoked the attack. My wife Sue has no contact with Glen Drake, never had. She has done nothing to offend him on the GNR.
Glen has a history of making unprovoked attacks on people. Most of you will probably remember well the unprovoked attack on Ali Key as recently as February. Ali did not do or say anything to Glen. He simply picked on some general comment she made on the GNR, and attacked her visciously at a deeply psychological level, calculated to be emotionally hurtful and embarrassing. There are others who have been the focus of his unprovoked and calculated nastiness.
So I repeat - there was no provocation. The man has a history of making unprovoked personal attacks on people. He was previously banned for making such attacks. He didn't learn the lesson. I cannot help noticing that almost all the people he has attacked are women. A lot of people would see this as a cowardly trait in a man.
Was this unprovoked attack on my wife an indirect attack on someone else?
I don't know. You have to consider that it was me, husband of the woman Glen attacked, who instigated Glen's previous banning. It was me who appealed openly at the time to the GNR management to do something about Glen's unprovoked attacks on members (in particular, the attack on Ali Key in February).
So I cannot rule out that this unprovoked attack on my wife was a cowardly, vengeful way of getting at me. This would certainly fit the psychological profile of his attacks. Terrorists, for example, use attacks on family members of their political targets, as a way of getting at them.
You judge.
Why was it an attack?
Some of you seem to think that Glen's posting was simply a critical opinion about a piece of literature.
Well, you have to ask yourself:
* why in general was the posting so cryptic?
* why didn't he say who the poem was written by?
* why did he disguise it as a quotion, rather than show it as a poem?
* why didn't he actually explain what he didn't like about the poem?
* why didn't he give an alternative explanation of his own opinion on the topic?
* why would he insult the unnamed author by calling the author a hypocrite without explaining why?
* why add the insulting phrase "excuse me while I puke", guaranteed to further offend the author?
* why put it publicly on the GNR in particular, instead of just contacting the author for a discussion?
Well, if Glen's posting was a simple critical opinion of a poem he had come across on the internet, you wouldn't really have to ask all these questions, would you?
There was ONE person guaranteed to recognize the words of the "cryptic" quotation Glen put in the posting on the GNR. And that person is the author, my wife Sue, a GNR member. Glen's posting was carefully calculated to attack that one person. It started with a personal insult, gave a quotation (without any literary comment or criticism), and ended with a phrase guaranteed to emphasise the personal insult. The words were used without permission, without naming the author, and without acknowledging copyright, which adds insult to injury.
This aiming publicly but very cryptically at one person is the psychological equivalent of a military "surgical strike". It is carefully calculated and constructed to hurt one person, while all around wonder what happened. So, if you're one of the people who wondered what happened, now you know why it wasn't too obvious.
Nasty psychological harassment stuff. Random and unprovoked attacks have been proven to be far more psychologically disturbing to the victim than other more openly provoked and explained attacks. The attack fits the psychological profile of his other unprovoked attacks.
Why did I post a Troll Alert Reminder?
A proven trouble maker had just come back on the GNR streets after being banned for unprovoked personal attacks on members. His first posting on returning from his banning was an unprovoked personal attack on a member. The perfect troll. It deserved a general troll alert reminder.
Why did I post the poem in it's proper form, acknowledging author and copyright?
Firstly, when using someone else's published and copyrighted words, it is a legal requirement under copyright law to obtain permission, use the words in their correct form and structure, attribute the words to the author, and to acknowledge copyright. I did this to correct the situation.
Secondly, I did it to lift the curtain of mystery surrounding the crytic use of the poem by Glen to make a covert unprovoked attack on the author. This elevated Glen's position from unexposed and cowardly personal attacker to exposed personal attacker.
Thirdly, it demonstrated how easily a fellow GNR member could, for good reason or bad, get access to Sue's poetry through her GNR profile, and the web contact on her message sign-offs.
Who took the decision to ban Glen Drake?
I respectfully suggest that Glen Drake took the decision to ban Glen Drake. He returned to the board after a banning for unprovoked personal attacks on members, and immediately proceeded to make a carefully calculated and unprovoked personal attack on a member. He then made further postings generally advocating that nastiness etc, in the guise of free speech, should be allowable and be the way to go for the GNR. He demonstrated that he was completely unrepentant. He must have known what he was doing, and what the consequences could be.
So I repeat, Glen Drake took the decision to ban Glen Drake.
Is Craig being harsh and unreasonable?
Good Lord, no! Craig and the other management team members of the GNR simply obliged Glen Drake by executing the decision that Glen Drake himself made.
Glen had been warned and banned previously. There may have been a structure in place to give him another temporary banning for a further transgression, before banning him permanently. If so, I'm sure that this would have been given in good faith by GNR management, acknowledging that people sometimes, over time, err.
It certainly would not have been in the spirit of any such agreement that Glen returns and immediately and so deliberately begins making unprovoked personal attacks on members. In the circumstances, the management should have no conscience about revoking any such agreement, and imposing the immediate permanent ban, being that the spirit of the agreement would have been broken by Glen Drake himself.
Let's move on
Glen Drake is currently sending increasingly nasty and threatening emails to Craig, Sue and myself. Sue and I will be ignoring them, and I hope Craig does the same. Like all of us GNR members, Glen Drake did not have rights, per se, on the GNR. He had privileges - he abused them persistently, and has now lost them.
The GNR is in essence a private club, with facilities and management provided free, out of the kindness of the hearts of these wonderful people Craig, Arthur and Heather, who run it. And of Dave Cooper, who created the GNR and got it up and running all those years ago. Who is allowed to be or remain a member, and the way in which the GNR is run are therefore, understandably and quite rightly, at the complete discretion of management.
If you see nothing wrong with the way Glen Drake behaved persistently over time, then ask yourself why. A lot of other people on the board will certainly be asking themslves the same question about you.
Let's move on.
Paudie Coughlan, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, 1 July 2006 at 06:28:21 (UTC)
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Message edited 2006-07-02 05:48:00 (UTC) by Management. Reason: To fix open bold tags.
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Apologies that the previous message has so much bold text. An HTML glitch by me.
Paudie Coughlan, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, 1 July 2006 at 06:31:00 (UTC)
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Hi All
It is sad to read the bickering and nastiness that has been occurring on the GNR website in the last few communications. I feel sorry for both parties involved, where one is aggressive and the other sensitive but, I think the main reason we enjoy the website is we share a common bond in that we have lived in a country that holds fond memories for each one of us. A past we cannot change, even if we wanted to. Don’t you think we have forgotten the qualification to belong to this website?
I am a member of a large family (7 children), we also share a common bond that cannot be changed and for this reason we have had to resolve our squabbling amongst ourselves. Yes our father used to take the whip to the wrongdoers but he was never able to dispel us from the family. Unfortunately, it is easy to say what you like over the Internet or a telephone without physical contact. I wonder what would happen if the parties were able to meet each other in the flesh? Like my brothers rolling on the floor punching one another and ending up laughing together at the silliness of it all or my sisters fighting over a dress that each wants to wear in order to attract a certain boy and then crying because the boys rejected them.
Unfortunately the world is made up of different characters with different thoughts, traditions and features, but the one thing we all have in common, unless the American government get their way, is choice and privacy. So I humbly suggest that if one sees a communication written by someone that they are unable to see eye to eye with, then choose not to read it or respond to it. But to threaten or be forced to leave the family and change the past (IMPOSSIBLE). As for the aggressive parties I suggest a joint and a good night’s rest so that when you wake up you are able to climb out of bed on the right side.
All this from Doctor Tony at no charge.
Tony
PS Ask yourselves one question: "How old am I?"
Tony Petzer, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, 1 July 2006 at 08:14:19 (UTC)
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The pastor and the donkey
The pastor entered his donkey in a race and it won. The pastor
was so pleased with the donkey that he entered it in the race again the next week, and it won again.
The local paper read: PASTOR'S ASS OUT FRONT
The Bishop was so upset with this kind of publicity that he
ordered the pastor not to enter the donkey in another race. The next day, the local paper headline read: BISHOP SCRATCHES PASTOR'S ASS
This was too much for the bishop, so he ordered the pastor to
get rid of the donkey. The pastor decided to give it to a nun in a
nearby convent. The local paper, hearing of the news, posted the
following headline the next day: NUN HAS BEST ASS IN TOWN
The bishop fainted. He informed the nun that she would have to
get rid of the donkey, so she sold it to a farmer for $10.
The next day the paper read: NUN SELLS ASS FOR $10
This was too much for the bishop, so he ordered the nun to buy
back the donkey and lead it to the plains where it could run wild.
The next day the headlines read: NUN ANNOUNCES HER ASS IS WILD AND FREE
The bishop was buried the next day.
The moral of the story is....being concerned about public opinion
can bring you much grief and misery...and even shorten your life.
So be yourself and enjoy life... Stop worrying about someone else's Ass and you'll be a lot happier and live longer!
Just thought I'd pass this on.
Malcolm T.
Malcolm Thursby, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, 1 July 2006 at 08:14:52 (UTC)
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ex Theatre Members,
On the 28th June posted an appeal from Lynda Whistance for financial assistance in refurbishing the Little Theatre stage.
I had absolutely no response whatsoever. It seems to me that my post was swamped by that deluge of politics that going on about then, which hopefully today is at an end.
Amonst the GNR members there is at least two ex-Chairpersons (men both). I do not believe for one moment that neither are interested in this little project even if not in favour of contributing.
And where are all the other Members I wonder. Have they stopped reading the posts because of the unpleasantness
Jane Todd,
I hope you arrived safe and sound, look forward to hearing from you.
Roger Hartley Capel,
I now see what you meant in your earlier email!
Robin Hales, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, 1 July 2006 at 09:40:24 (UTC)
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Hi Tony
As you probably saw from her posting, Sue really enjoyed the poem you posted the other day. Linda was also impressed - are you going to have an affair with her? :)
Thanks for posting your general advice and suggestions about conflict situations. May I suggest that it is possible that you are confusing two things - there is a big difference between, on the one hand, disagreeing with someone's opinion, and on the other hand, personally attacking and insulting that person because your disagree with their opinion.
I think a lot of people on this board don't have a problem with seeing an opinion that they do not agree with. However, I agree strongly with a lot of members and the GNR management, that personal attack and insult are definitely not acceptable. It is actually a common feature of moderated message boards that people who resort to personal attack and insult, rather than intelligent agreement/disagreement and discussion of the topic in hand, lose their membership privileges. Firstly temporarily, and if they persist, permanently. Although it is not a fully moderated board, I don't see why the GNR should be any different. After all, rule of law is part of any civilised group in society.
Like you, I don't like gratuitus aggression and destructive conflict. But sometimes, when it persists, the only solution for the greater good is to simply remove the source of unprovoked aggression.
As someone has already said on this board in the last few days,
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)
Paudie Coughlan, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, 1 July 2006 at 11:17:51 (UTC)
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Paudie,
I wish I had that much time to think, and re think, and then re think it all over again, all the stuff that bothers you.
No good me being repetitious, but with all due respect, this whole matter is no more than the proverbial storm in a tea cup. You could have easily ignored the stuff that offended you.
Isn't it a pity, that in this current climate of political correctness, so many people wish to wipe out the world of black and white, with every conceivable shade in between. What they apparently prefer is this common mass of grey jelly, that kind of wobbles to and fro as someone bumps the bowl. No more creativity, no more individual spunk and risk taking, no one being able to be responsible for their own actions, etc. etc.
But this too shall pass - may even quicker if the threat from the east intensifies?
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A warning for others out there: be wary of an untitled email from theescape@aol.com (or similar) with a word document attached and which included the nasty WM32 virus which I received today. Thankfully my virus checked stopped it causing any harm.
Sue Coughlan, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, 1 July 2006 at 17:01:49 (UTC)
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How did I come up on the virus infection thread? Oh well, one hand doesn't seem to know what the other is doing. Oh well, a virus infection is as appropriate as anything leading into the next sentence. To the English contingent of the GNR - Just hugs and commiserations over in England on the world cup game today.
And Brazil lost to France! At least any of our ex-Congo friends who may idly pass by the site today will be happy. My cousins in Brazil will just have to go to the beach and get over it. They lead a terrible life ;-)
Tina Magee, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, 1 July 2006 at 21:33:36 (UTC)
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Chris : Working, like I am supposed to be doing now, filling up the EPOS, as its the only time I can get peace. Not quite at the rubber sheet stage but getting there fast!
Enjoy your R & R, at least you don't call it R & D as I do when I do a runner now and then, say "Hi" to RL from me!
Scotland's best ever worst ever poet Auld William MacGonagle was pelted with bricks, bottles, chairs, indeed whatever came to hand, rotten fruit being the best he could hope for, during his endless public renditions throughout Scotland, London and even NY. Bruised and battered he soldiered on for decades eventually becoming Scotland's second best loved poet of all time and the most popular today with a huge fan club and a site which sends out a free poem every day of the year.
They are so totally dreadful, well past the "naive art" which excludes that as an excuse, that they become adictive!
As Auld Willie was wont to quote at the end of another evening of physical abuse, " Its a hard life being a poet these days"
Some things never change it seems!
Colin Munro, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, 1 July 2006 at 22:32:30 (UTC)
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A young blonde was on holiday and driving through Zambia. She wanted to take home a pair of genuine crocodile shoes in the worst way, but was very reluctant to pay the high prices the local vendors were asking. After becoming very frustrated with the "no haggle on prices" attitude of one of the shopkeepers, the blonde shouted, "Well then, maybe I'll just go out and catch my own croc, so I can get a pair of shoes for free!"
The shopkeeper said with a sly, knowing smile, "Little lady, just go and give it a try!" The blonde headed out toward the Kafue river, determined
to catch a croc.
Later in the day, as the shopkeeper is driving home, he pulls over to the side of the river where he spots that same young woman standing waist deep in the water, shotgun in hand. Just then, he spots a huge 9-foot croc swimming rapidly toward her. With lightning speed, she takes aim, fires, kills the creature and hauls it onto the bank of the river. Lying nearby were 7 more of the dead creatures, all lying on their backs. The shopkeeper stood on the bank, watching in silent amazement. The blonde struggled and flipped the croc onto its back. Rolling her eyes heavenward and screaming in great frustration, she shouts out S#@*&..........THIS ONE'S BAREFOOT TOO!"
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Craig
You had no other choice.
GLEN.
I will miss you on the GNR posting board.
CHRIS TAMM/
Not sure that I agree, or maybe I misunderstand your point of view. I am incredibly glad that issues are no longer viewed as black or white and that grey areas have to be considered.
Cheers to alll in pretty amazing 2002 Hawthorne Mountain Vineyard Merlot. ( I did watch sideaways, but , as in all things, there is always an exception.)
Roger Ward, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, 2 July 2006 at 02:36:05 (UTC)
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Anyone remember that old Johnny Ray song sung as only he could sing it with those inevitable tears?
I’d like to make just a short comment here. For me, in a nutshell this is what seems to have been.
A member appeared to personally insult another member and why, who knows? Naturally a person close to the offended member leapt up in defence and effectively delivered an equal insult. This altercation was further fuelled by other members comments (cryptic or otherwise). A label was firmly attached together with a long explanation. And, as we all know, mud sticks.
Just a few weeks ago some members were practically begging someone to return and not only that but particularly asking for a controversial comment. And so it came to be.
Some while ago I read an apology afforded to another insulted member. I do not recall having seen any response to that in any way.
Finally I can only reiterate Tony’s PS.
Regards
Evelyn
Evelyn Carra, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, 2 July 2006 at 03:22:14 (UTC)
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Well that's all as it may be but personally I'm just genuinely hurt that Craig hasn't yet emailed me a picture of himself in suspenders, stockings and stilettos. What does a girl have to do to get a response?
Tina Magee, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, 2 July 2006 at 03:40:44 (UTC)
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Tina,
I for one would love to see a pic too.............
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Evelyn,
The reason why I never responded to the apology, (Glens )
was :
I felt it was a little bit too late.
Was it genuine ? (that I would never really know as I never got a personal apology ) selfish ? no ....after all the personal insult was deeply personal and very hurtful, that is why when I realised that he once again had Personaly insulted another member I lashed out..stupid/inane/ ? yes....I felt like crawling under a rock after, but I did apologise to Chris both on the board and personally....and yes I am genuinely sorry...........
BUT I have one question....for everyone .....why is it so important to accept and cry foul when a person who blatently insults people (the latest insult ) is banned from the site, but there was hardly a whimper when the insult was carried out......I really felt for Sue....that is why I spoke out in her defence
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Going through the Rhodie Music website recently, searching for any ex-NR/Zambian musicians who had played in Rhodesian bands, I came across a Chris Tamm. He was the drummer in a Gwelo band called "The Specters" in the early sixties.
I didn't connect it with the GNR Tamm, until I remembered that someone recently said you went to school at Guinea Fowl, near Gwelo. The website write-up states that the said Chris Tamm left the band in 1964 to depart to a place called Tzaneen in South Africa. You mentioned Tzaneen in a GNR posting several months ago, as a place you had your medicals done before going to Zambia, also in 1964 (I had looked up Tzaneen because I didn't know where it was - such an unusual name).
Anyway, here is the Rhodie Music webpage - scroll down to about three quarters of the page. The "Specters" article / band member photo is between the "Sounds Anonymous" article and the "Spitfires" mention. Chris Tamm is on the drums. Rhodie Music bands - S
This must be you, right? Did you play in any other bands, especially in Lusaka? Tell us more.
Paudie Coughlan, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, 2 July 2006 at 05:23:49 (UTC)
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Tina and Ali,
Believe it or not, one of my "friends" (and I use that term lightly) has a doctored (and I do emphasise that word) picture of me in a French maid's outfit on her Web site. However, it will take a very hefty donation to get the address out of me. :)
Craig Hartnett, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, 2 July 2006 at 05:37:01 (UTC)
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The server will be down for a time within the next few hours so that the hard drive can be replaced. I haven't decided on precise details yet, but will post more information here if I feel it's necessary.
Craig Hartnett, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, 2 July 2006 at 05:39:24 (UTC)
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I have resorted to putting these addresses on as they are useless and no one can use them for spamming , I have had dozens of EMs returned on them, so please Mary and Alix tell me what is wrong with them so I can rectify, thanks Johnny.
The following message to was undeliverable.
The reason for the problem:
5.1.0 - Unknown address error 550-'Unrouteable address'
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Johnny, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, 2 July 2006 at 05:53:05 (UTC)
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Ditto Alix
The following message to was undeliverable.
The reason for the problem:
5.1.0 - Unknown address error 553-'5.3.0 ... No such user'
Johnny, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, 2 July 2006 at 05:55:31 (UTC)
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Craig
Thanks for fixing the HTML bold tag in my message July 1, 06:28
Paudie Coughlan, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, 2 July 2006 at 06:17:44 (UTC)
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You're welcome.
Craig Hartnett, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, 2 July 2006 at 10:33:25 (UTC)
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Following this message I will be disabling the posting facility and the ability to update your Names Directory entry or join the GNR. Between approximately 11:00 am and 12:30 pm UTC the GNR will be completely unavailable, and after that may resolve to the main NinerNet site or a generic page for a brief period.
Craig Hartnett, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, 2 July 2006 at 10:33:43 (UTC)
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Sorry for the delay in getting the site back up after the hard drive was changed two weekends ago. Too many issues as a result and, unfortunately, the GNR tends to come below other things on the totem pole.
Will be checking the Names Directory functions shortly and putting those back if all is well there.
Again, my apologies for the delay.
Craig Hartnett, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, 12 July 2006 at 23:42:50 (UTC)
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Great News , thanks Craig, you do such a wonderful job keeping the Road maintained, something we should never take for granted.......
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Ditto Craig.
Just got back from UK and France 10 days ago. Looked for GNR and as they say "There it was - gone." Believe I missed some dramas.
Friggin freezin this morning in Perth, only 1.4 degrees C and at local small airport Jandakot it fell below zero......
Keith Binns, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, 12 July 2006 at 23:57:12 (UTC)
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Craig
A big Thank You for getting the board up again. Like so many others, Sue and I miss the GNR when it not there. Your services, and those of Heather and Arthur, to the ex-NR/Zambian community in keeping going the GNR that Dave Cooper founded, are deeply appreciated.
Paudie Coughlan, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, 13 July 2006 at 01:52:05 (UTC)
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Welcome back Craig!!! We have missed you and the withdrawal symptoms were overwhelming. Long live the GNR. Thanks for getting us back on line.
Linda Hayes, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, 13 July 2006 at 04:14:30 (UTC)
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There is a small issue with the posting form, as well as the Names Directory forms, so I am going to take this down again and will hopefully have it back up before I head for bed.
Craig Hartnett, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, 13 July 2006 at 04:45:59 (UTC)
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OK, I believe I've fixed the problem with the posting facility. If you have any problems posting messages (particularly if everything seems to work properly but your message doesn't show up on the board), please let me know and I'll look at the situation.
Will get the Names Directory functions up and working later.
Craig Hartnett, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, 13 July 2006 at 22:40:31 (UTC)
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Craig
Thanks
Arthur
Arthur Steevens, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, 13 July 2006 at 22:47:51 (UTC)
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Testing. Hi Craig, hi Arthur xxxxx
Fiona Gayther, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, 13 July 2006 at 23:14:03 (UTC)
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This is a test. It is only a test and not the real thing. For the real thing, call me when my husband is asleep... grin.
Hello Craig and Artie:
Just testing to see if the posting ability works.
Hot Lips Hayes
Linda Hayes, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, 13 July 2006 at 23:14:55 (UTC)
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Yay it works! Linda you didn't ring me!
Fiona Gayther, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, 13 July 2006 at 23:26:55 (UTC)
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Paudie, in full on sleuth mode:
Anyway, here is the Rhodie Music webpage - scroll down to about three quarters of the page. The "Specters" article / band member photo is between the "Sounds Anonymous" article and the "Spitfires" mention. Chris Tamm is on the drums. Rhodie Music bands - S
This must be you, right? Did you play in any other bands, especially in Lusaka? Tell us more.
Damned, there goes another secret which is no secret no more. Yes, I em dee won. We played for several years in Gwelo (my home then) and many of the other incredible hotspots in the Midlands/Matabeleland Area (Lalapanzi, Umvuma, Ft Vic, Selukwe, Shabani, Mashaba, Belingwe, Filabusi, Fort Rixon, Redcliff, Que Que, Gatooma, Hartley, Cam and Motor, Gwenoro Dam amongst them, and once in Bulawayo where we played a gig with local group the Stereos at a dance hall group called Cafe Continental) Our moment in the spotlight was when we entered the Rock Band competion at Duthie Hall in Salisbury, and ran away with 1st Bass Guitar (Mike Clark) and 3rd overall. It was a lucrative and incredibly important phase of my life which allowed us to earn some good bucks so that we could drive our cars, and entertain the chicks!! After the competition success, we were offered a contract to go professional at Ciro's in Johburg, but then the bank transferred me to Tzaneen, and lead guitarist Frank Green to Blantyre. Poof, no more Specters. If truth be told, we got cold feet and decided to stay with the relative comfort and safety of the bank. I tinkered once or twice in Lusaka with an old colored friend (Eddie someone or other? I think), but never again would be the more accurate thing to say.
I hope you have been following the chatter on the Detour about Glen's Red Card. I reflected earlier that I thought this was a storm in the proverbial cafellato cup. I know you were in the eye of that storm, but sheesh man, a red card was over the top. Glen has a lot to offer to this motley crew of ex Rhodesians/Zamboons or whatever. We are a dying breed. After us, there will be only a few history books which are currently being re written by the regimes in both countries. What ever happened to the delete key in your life? Ignore him if he pisses you off. No big deal. Future disagreements will be inevitable but if the politbureau red cards those blokes every time time, this list will shrink and become even more boring than a Harry Nkumbula campaign speech.
So get on your stick Paudie, and lead the charge on the Commander to have Glen reinstated. Only you can do it, and you can. Craig is a reasonable chap and you will be able to persuade him. Just do it
TTFN
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Hong Kong Country Parks Authority
WARNING
Due to the rising frequency of Pythons swallowing pet dogs in the Sai Kung Country Park members of the public who use the Country Parks in a recreational or work-related manner are advised to take extra precautions when walking their dogs in Country Parks.
Walkers are advised to wear heavy boots and stamp their feet frequently and also make their dogs wear little noisy bells on their collars in order to give advance warning to any pythons that might be nearby so that they are not taken by surprise.
Walkers are also advised to carry a container of pepper mixed with sulphur powder in case of an encounter with a python.
Walkers should be on the lookout for fresh python activity, and be able to tell the difference between young python droppings and adult python droppings. Young python poo contains the bones and fur of small animals. Adult python poo has bells in it, is yellow and smells of pepper.
ENJOY THE COUNTRY PARKS
Ron Clibborn-Dyer, China [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, 14 July 2006 at 00:21:27 (UTC)
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Very many thanks Craig ~~ so far everything is working for me.
Thanks to Fiona and Tina for keeping the Alternative GNR running, whilst the board has been down.
Cheers,
Maxie.
Maxie Lindenberg, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, 14 July 2006 at 00:27:05 (UTC)
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Ron:
Thanks so much for the python 'heads-up' - goodness, how the other half live, hey?
Thank you Craig for working sooooooooo hard on what must surely have become a labour without the love lately... and of course to Arty, Heather and Dave for our Great (and I mean great) North Road.
Ali, Tina, Linda, Fiona etc:
Tea anyone? :-)
Sue Coughlan, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, 14 July 2006 at 01:18:26 (UTC)
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Ron,
Thanks for the Python warning.
I shall take heed of all that was written when I take my little dog out walkies in the nearby forest. You just can't be too careful!
Nice to have an early morning laugh.
Maxie.
Maxie Lindenberg, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, 14 July 2006 at 02:22:39 (UTC)
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Me, with a momentary brain freeze, earlier today:
I tinkered once or twice in Lusaka with an old colored friend (Eddie someone or other? I think), but never again would be the more accurate thing to say.
The "Eddie" I just remembered, was not Eddie at all, but Erroll Hickey. A fine chap, fine musician who used to play with the Cyclones in Salisbury, and ended up in Lusaka. Good guy. Good drinking buddy. And I see that he has done very well for himself. Director of Zambian Tourons, Radio Station owner etc. Glad to see he is still alive and kicking.
Krickey, that is going back 40 years! Bloody scary stuff that!
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In view of the fact that two vicars and one organist have gone missing in HK recently the following has been added to the Country Parks Authority warning on Pythons.
'Vicars are advised not to wear their dog collars in the Country Parks and not to hang bells on their organs.'
Organists take note ~ You have been warned !
Cheers Ron
Ron Clibborn-Dyer, China [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, 14 July 2006 at 04:06:48 (UTC)
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Thanks Craig for the work you have put in to restore normality to our lives, you have saved a few girls from mental homes, and me, thanks again pal, Johnny.
Johnny, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, 14 July 2006 at 04:09:16 (UTC)
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Two lumps please Sue! :-)
It's good to be back. Thanks Craig!
Fiona Gayther, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, 14 July 2006 at 07:38:22 (UTC)
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Chris Tamm
Well imagine that - Chris Tamm is also a muso!! If your old band The Specters was placed 3rd in a Rhodie Rock Band competition, you guys must have been impressive (in the world of the Southern African music scene). An offer of a professional contract in Jo'burg as well. Just in case other readers missed your write-up on the Rhodie Music website, they can click on the following link and scroll down to about three quarters of the page. The "Specters" article / band member photo is between the "Sounds Anonymous" article and the "Spitfires" mention Rhodie Bands - S The band you double-gigged with in Bulawayo, The Stereos, also have a write-up a bit further down that webpage.
Like you, playing in bands was a top time in my life, with relatively good extra money, and a wild time. I stopped playing in 1980 in Kitwe, but have done the odd jam with various local bands over the years in the various countries I've lived in since leaving Zambia.
I remember Errol Hickey well from Lusaka. And yes, the last I heard he has done very well for himself. He was a good friend of Robin Kinnear (who sadly passed away a few years ago). Robin played bass in two Kitwe/Ndola bands I played in, and Errol organised several gigs for us in Lusaka over a period of about a year or so, circa the late side of the mid-1970's.
I know what you mean about Errol and good drinking. One episode of many sticks in my mind. We had played two pretty successful gigs on the Friday and Saturday night in Lusaka. One at Central Sports, can't remember the other. Errol suggested that we meet up at the pool bar at the Intercontinental at 11am on the Sunday morning. The idea was for a "quick chat" about future gigs before the band heading off for the Copperbelt. BIIIIG MISTAKE!! Too many Mosi's later, about mid-afternoon, Errol convinced us to follow him to Lusaka Flying Club for yet another "quick chat" with a friend of his about more future gigs. BIIIIG MISTAKE!! Even more Mosi's later, about late afternoon/early evening, Errol and a friend of his (a senior official with a foreign embassy I won't name) convinced us to follow them from the Flying Club to the friend's house for a quick bite to eat before heading off north. BIIIIG MISTAKE!! Even more Mosi's, with fiamba circulating, and a bit of food later, circa 9pm, musos Robin Kinnear, Robbie Centonze, Kenny Ramage and myself headed off, driving slowly and in convoy, back home. On reflection now, stupid drink-driving behavior, but they were wild days.
Don't you ever get tempted to get back into music in some way, eg jam with local bands etc ? You would have been a pretty good muso in your band days in Africa - seems such a pity to lose and waste the talent. Who knows, someone might even be able to get a general GNR reunion together, including all the GNR musos, and you could keep the beat as we jammed the nights away.
Regarding the GNR Management Team. Craig, Heather and Arthur make decisions together on all GNR matters. They are each self-made business people, and in my experience are strong characters who know their own minds. They do not suffer fools gladly, and are quite capable of distinguishing between genuine and civilised disagreement on the one hand, and personal attacks, offensiveness and uncivilised behaviour on the other. Even when that unacceptable behaviour is in the guise of "free speech" or "literary criticism" or "just kidding" or "provoking lurkers to post" or "I honestly thought I could get away with just one more deliberate unprovoked personal attack on a member before being permanently banned", etc etc.
We are lucky to have Craig, Heather and Arthur, giving of their free time and assets, to provide and run this board so very capably for us.
You seem to so strongly disagree with the way the GNR is run and its insistence on civilised behaviour. You know, you could demonstrate both intestinal fortitude and testicular mass, show initiative, be innovative, take a risk, stand by the black and white principles and values you claim are so sadly lacking in this world today, and start up your own message board. You could have anyone you wanted as a member. YOU would be the management, setting all the rules and policies on acceptable behaviour etc. Could be fun hey?
As you can imagine, I am not going to engage with you on the matter of your now twice-banned friend.
Paudie Coughlan, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, 14 July 2006 at 07:51:05 (UTC)
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Message edited 2006-07-14 08:36:00 (UTC) by Management. Reason: To fix HTML at poster's request.
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Chris Tamm
Damned HTML again. Lost inside that posting is a story about a day-long drinking session with Errol Hickey in Lusaka.
Paudie Coughlan, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, 14 July 2006 at 08:47:53 (UTC)
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Paudie wrote to Chris...
You seem to so strongly disagree with the way the GNR is run and its insistence on civilised behaviour. You know, you could demonstrate both intestinal fortitude and testicular mass, show initiative, be innovative, take a risk, stand by the black and white principles and values you claim are so sadly lacking in this world today, and start up your own message board. You could have anyone you wanted as a member. YOU would be the management, setting all the rules and policies on acceptable behaviour etc. Could be fun hey?
And I say - "So could you".......
Peter Dielissen, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, 14 July 2006 at 08:51:11 (UTC)
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Peter Dielissen
Thanks for your posting Pete.
Well, I suppose I could. But then, I agree completely with the way the GNR is run and I agree completely with its insistence on civilised behaviour. So why would I ? (rhetorical question).
Have a good weekend.
Paudie Coughlan, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, 14 July 2006 at 10:03:22 (UTC)
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Craig
Sorry about that. Very embarrassing. Thanks for the fix.
Paudie Coughlan, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, 14 July 2006 at 10:07:19 (UTC)
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Hi Paudie...
Because your next sentence was:
"As you can imagine, I am not going to engage with you on the matter of your now twice-banned friend"
But you just did...
Anyway - let's not argue.
BTW - being retired - and loving it - every day is a weekend day hee, hee. I just wish I lived in Vancouver and could go to the beach every day.
I just spent five days in Toronto and two weeks in Vancouver. Took a whole bunch of pictures. If you like to see them just email me and I'll send them on.
Peter Dielissen, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, 14 July 2006 at 11:22:06 (UTC)
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I'm one of the "Lurkers", I spent quite a bit of my time either at boarding school or living out of town at Mindola, so don't have that many shared memories. It is great however just to immerse yourself in old names, places & shared interests.
So, though I don't contribute that much, I really appreciate what is done to maintain this board.
Thanks to Craig and the team for their efforts. Craig, if you need a 'footsoldier' at any time, drop me a line and if I can help, I will as some slight recompense for the enjoyment I derive. Bill Miles
William Miles, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, 14 July 2006 at 12:30:58 (UTC)
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Errol Hickey, Tea, and something that's been bothering me cos I can't remember
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Sue
Tea yes, but I hope for no more lumps on this site except for sugar lumps. Lively debates and even boxing bouts fine, but Marquess of Queensberry rules, and no hitting below the belt.
Who was it who hung around Errol Hickey and Longacres and the flying club who had afghan hounds and used to refer to them as his "dogues"? Wasn't Hickey was it?
Tina Magee, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, 14 July 2006 at 14:21:24 (UTC)
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I've finished fixing the editing form for the Names Directory, so if you've been chomping at the bit to update your entry, please go ahead. If you have any problems, please let me know. Thanks.
Keith, since you managed to slip in there while the form was still broken a couple of days ago, you might want to update your entry again, as your update did not take.
Craig Hartnett, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, 14 July 2006 at 16:10:24 (UTC)
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Paudie, in non html:
You seem to so strongly disagree with the way the GNR is run and its insistence on civilised behaviour. You know, you could demonstrate both intestinal fortitude and testicular mass, show initiative, be innovative, take a risk, stand by the black and white principles and values you claim are so sadly lacking in this world today, and start up your own message board. You could have anyone you wanted as a member. YOU would be the management, setting all the rules and policies on acceptable behaviour etc. Could be fun hey?
As you can imagine, I am not going to engage with you on the matter of your now twice-banned friend.
Hate to say it Paudie, but you have just shown that you too are capable of "personal attacks". Just re read the above expressions and implications one time.
All I am saying Paudie, is that this group will suffer, at the very least, some deterioration in diversity if parties to a tiff are summarily deported. And no, I have absolutely no intention of starting another list, and have no wish to be in charge of anything other than my own business. I am sorry you don't see it that way. I will continue to maintain that you have the only key to Glen's reinstatement. Use it. You will feel better for it.
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Thank god someone would like common sense to prevail , we`re becoming engulfed with retrospect political correctness .
Ian Bell, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, 14 July 2006 at 18:44:17 (UTC)
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Censorship, Political Correctness, "Deterioration in Diversity", and "Special Relationships"
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Chris,
The first three items in the subject of this message have seemed to be your main complaints about the management of this Web site since you first started complaining. Other than the occasional useless "me too" from people who apparently have nothing intelligent to add to the discourse (or who do so privately because they haven't the guts to do so publicly), you and Glen seem to be the lone voices of dissent. Please allow me to address these three points... again.
Censorship: Just to be sure I'm not arguing a barely-defensible point here, I've gone and done a bit of reading on censorship. First I will admit that suspending any member (you, Glen, a spammer, or anyone else) is -- technically -- censorship. Now in your self-admitted black-and-white world that's bad, and there's nothing I can do to change your mind or look like a reasonable person, so I'm not even going to try and I don't lose any sleep over it. I know you'll call me all sorts of nasty names that include the word "liberal", but I live in a world of shades of grey, for the most part. The bigger question is whether or not our censoring of a member is effective. We (the cabal that runs the GNR) are not a government and we do not have a monopoly on providing the means for people to express their opinions. As has been clearly demonstrated in this case, Glen is using another forum (the "Alternative GNR") to voice his opinions, and so our "attempts to shut him up" (to paraphrase) have failed miserably. In addition, as has been pointed out by others, it takes little effort and no expense to set up your own forum in which you can ensure there is no censorship whatsoever. You've stated that you have no interest in doing that; fair enough, but if you don't want to expend time and energy managing that, why expend time and energy trying to get this Web site managed the way you want it run when that's clearly not going to happen?
Political Correctness: Isn't it amazing how two people who profess to be against political correctness can end up being on opposite sides of a mud-slinging match, where one person is accusing the other of being PC? You can call me politically correct if you want ("sticks and stones" and all that), but I don't see this as being an issue of political correctness. In the "real world" you have no right to punch me; in the "cyber world" (which is, perhaps, a shade of grey that you don't quite grasp) you have no right to launch a verbal attack on me that, in the "real world", might get you a knuckle sandwich in return. The issue with Glen's attacks on Ali and Sue (or Paudie via Sue) is that they are not just "tiffs"; they were calculated attacks and intended to be vicious.
"Deterioration in Diversity": This is the one that I just haven't been able to figure out. In a couple of months the GNR will have had a message board for seven of its ten-year existence. If we had suspended one person a month for seven years, we'd have lost a grand total of 84 members. Now, while I would admit that suspending that many people would raise some questions, 84 members out of 3000 is a mere 3% and would hardly constitute a "deterioration in diversity". But have we suspended 84 members in that time? Have we suspended half that many? Have we suspended even a tenth as many members? No! We've suspended two, and one of them was allowed back after a considerable time in exile. One permanent suspension in seven years is one hell of a sticky slope, not the slippery one you keep warning about.
"Special Relationships": Let me make it clear that Paudie holds no keys to Glen's reinstatement. It has been insinuated that Paudie and I have a "special relationship", and that Glen was suspended because I am Paudie's acolyte -- or perhaps vice-versa. It was not Paudie that brought about Glen's suspension, but Glen himself. The fact that Paudie reacted to Glen's attack on Sue and even suggested his suspension had no bearing on the matter, just as anyone else who reacted (for or against) had no direct influence over the decision we took. Certain people are putting two and two together and getting six to further their own agendas, while giving Arthur, Heather and me no credit for any intelligence or ability to think independently -- while also hiding behind flattery, I might add. I have varying degrees of a relationship (shades of grey again) with all 3000 odd members; these relationships range from strong friendships to nothing more than the brief exchange of messages that entails activating a new membership. Most members fall somewhere in between, including you, Glen and Paudie.
Craig Hartnett, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, 15 July 2006 at 01:01:10 (UTC)
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Re: Names Directory Editing Form Available Again
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Thanks Craig.
My place of residence appears to have successfully been changed back to Australia.
Hasn't there really been one message posted for 12 hours? A bit unusual that.
Keith Binns, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, 15 July 2006 at 12:01:00 (UTC)
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Wallabies 30 - Springboks 0 (yup, zero, nil, nada, zilch, b*gger all!!!)
Eish!!!
Thanks to the powers that be for fixing my 'fix'!!!
June Ross, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, 15 July 2006 at 12:36:03 (UTC)
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Go Oz
Australia 49
South Africa 0
Peter Goodhew, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, 15 July 2006 at 12:38:44 (UTC)
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Goodness me - how was I to know that was only the half time score? I asked hubby when I got home if I had heard correctly, could the Boks possibly not have scored a single point in reply to Australia's 30 and he (amidst violent sobs) told me it was much more serious than that!!!
Australia 49 Sprinboks (still) 0!!
Double Eish! Well done to the Wallabies.
June Ross, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, 15 July 2006 at 13:56:08 (UTC)
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Lets face facts. There are a few small minded morons who attempt to bully certain people on the GNR. Sticks and stones and all that. You and the GNR Management have the full support of 99.9% of the members, so I agree, don`t lose sleep over these sad fools.
Des Kenny, England [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, 15 July 2006 at 13:56:27 (UTC)
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Who would have thought that I Ali, has been far too busy to drop in on the GNR.......well folks I have been....first of all I started a course last week, a medical receptionist course, which runs for 6 weeks, it is so crammed with work, my head has been buzzing...the first 4 weeks are just general Medical reception training...pretty straight forward, ..the first week I had 4 assignments to do, and I am proud to say I got good results in all. The final two weeks I will be doing medical terminology and dictaphone typing ..and after that hopefully full time employment....
Apart from studying I am hosting two lovely girls from the US, they are both Students here to help organise a seminar run by Ishar, ( the women's health centre where I worked ) on women in leadership.......One of the girls is from Minnesota, and the other from California....their college is in Indiana.....My daughters are loving having a full household, in fact we are overrun by females in my home....9 females, that includes the 2 =^_^= and dog.....ohh we have one token male.....a siamese fighting fish...lol,
It has been rather interesting, as these girls are amazed by the number of people from different African countries they have met since been here in WA (they spent 3 weeks in the bush up in Kalgoorlie studying the health issues of the Aboriginies who live there) and so were amazed again to learn their host was actually born in Zambia, I had to explain to them where Zambia was etc (they had never heard of the place ;) ) they even know a little about the GNR.........couldn't help but tell them about this wonderful road, and the characters here that travel along it.......ohhh and they will be given the chance to try Borewors and Amarula too........which reminds me ..........DOUG, I had a visit from Ray Wright........he delivered the wonderful gift of a bottle of Amarula......thank you so so much, it was a lovely gesture on your behalf, THANK YOU. :) Ray again thanks........I shall enjoy every drop :)
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Well done Ali,
It's an achievement to decide to study later in life and another achievement to manage to pass any of the tests they set ~ bouquets to you, girl!
Sue Coughlan, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, 15 July 2006 at 15:10:32 (UTC)
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Your (et alii) management of this board is totally beyond reproach. As Des stated, we have the utmost confidence in your judgement.
Ken Fernie, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, 15 July 2006 at 16:08:19 (UTC)
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As a parent, and former sneaker (actually it was only ONCE, believe it or not with all the stories made up about me on this GNR...) I am conducting a survey to see if I really am the strictest parent on earth.
Hands up anyone who snuck out after midnight more than half a dozen times when they were 16yrs old or younger. Please note the age and frequency before responding. (If you were in Zambia at the time, perhaps we could hear a few stories for a change in thread here?)
Of those who respond, would you have considered, again at the age of 16, that being allowed to stay out until midnight during school holidays and 10:30pm on school nights would have been reasonable and satisfactory to you? If you were given the use of your Dad's prized truck to go out until these curfew times, would you have been appreciative and not abused the priviledge?
Parents of 16yr old boys (or girls, I guess), what do you consider a reasonable curfew for your teenager, whether you now live in Zambia or have ever lived in Zambia (germane...)
I am about to add two rows of crocodile teeth to my 2X4. Grrrrrrrrr
Linda Hayes, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, 15 July 2006 at 17:53:18 (UTC)
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Linda
Whether this will answer your question or not I don't know but I remember at the age of 16 I had a (very short term) boyfriend whose best friend used to "borrow" his dad's car at night. One night they wanted to pick me up around midnight for a "jol" around town. As I wanted to appear "cool" about it all I agreed to do it but was terrified my mother would find out, so I told her about it and talked her into letting me go - better than having an angry mother confronting you as you sneak in through the bedroom window! At the appointed time I was picked up and we went for said "jol". Oh, and by the way, this boy didn't have a license. Well I guess I wasn't really the adventurous type because I felt sick about it the whole time we were out and didn't enjoy it at all! The next day he dumped me (sob sob - not) and the following week the driver crashed his dad's car.
To answer your question, depending on the kid, I guess in this day and age of mobile (cell) phones, 11-12 is ok at 16, as long as you know where they are and you're in phone contact. I feel the more you demand they are home at a certain (and to them, unreasonable) time the more they will rebel, so probably a good idea to be a little bit flexible (on condition they realise if they take advantage you will come looking for them with the 2 x 4, complete with croc teeth!)
Fiona Gayther, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, 15 July 2006 at 18:53:39 (UTC)
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Linda
It often seems to me that things in Iceland are a bit different. We used to be happy with our 16 year old daughters being out until 02:30 on Fridays and Saturdays, but never beyond midnight during the week.
These "curfews" were regardless of school - they've all gone on to do weel for themselves, so we feel this worked for us.
I can well imagine that in some countries these times will seem excessively late, but if anything we were pretty strict for Iceland.
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Craig: Who would want to be a referee anyway? Eventually, from both sides, the protestations end up on ur lap(top)! Yes but, no but , yes but, no but!! You are are a very nice guy, stuck , we all hope, in the middle and as such, should remain there, taking an unbiased view of the procedings without favour or prejudice, which is very hard to do so, it would seem now, as political correctness prevails in every walk of life in our present times.
Being in the Chriss, Glen, Pappy (he cud tellya, as I know, god bless 'im," your are just total "shite" Munro!!", he had been more, seen more, done more; just made me laff in total agreement, (so there!) To take offence would have an insult to him, not me) camp etc . I really think its time that posters should hit back with wit, intelligence, acumen and ability instead of running to the teacher all the the time with, " Please Miss?" There is only so much that " Please Misses!!" should help one in PM1, so could we please move on to the next level!!
Colin Munro, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, 16 July 2006 at 01:52:03 (UTC)
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My memory is going... can't remember sneaking out but presume I wouldn't have because in 1965/6 wasn't a good time to do much sneaking at night and also I was already working so didn't need to sneak.
But I do remember going out one night when we lived in Xentine Avenue, in Garneton, about 10pm.
Not sneaking really, just a cavalier wave goodbye "Just going for an ice-cream with Shirley and the boys...”
Terry Naude drove his white Cortina, Shirley Naude and I shared the front seat, Bruce Thurtell, Henry Novak and the twins - help me out here Shirl... Gerald and ? - senility is such a shame... nice guy too!
Anyway, on the way to said ice cream we drove at the correct speed (unusual for the gorgeous Terry with the Elvis eyes, but he could be good when he wanted, and there were seven of us squashed into his car) when an off-duty policeman came speeding through the opposite red light and hit us head-on.
We went up into the air, tumbled over three times and landed on our roof – spinning then eventually smashing into the Bank building on the corner opposite the petrol station.
Because I was near the window I ended up with bits of tar in my scalp and imbedded into my shoulder, which had been scrapped bare, and a shine badly bruised and swollen shin from the dashboard.
The main damage was the opposite read side where (I think it was Gerald) one of the twins was sitting and had his thigh badly smashed and broken in three places - poor guy.
I think the fact that we all cushioned each other, mean that luckily, none of the others were hurt!
As soon as the car stopped spinning, Terry jumped out and raced after the other driver who ran like the wind. When Terry got hold of him, the driver was so drunk he couldn't even stand up - but he could run!
Anyway, our car was upside down, my knees were in my face (horrible image - sorry), I was worried people would see my knickers and I couldn't move.
My brother Patrick bent down and looked into the car, saw me, calmly said, "Susan - what are you doing here?"
I replied, "I've just had an accident!"
Patrick happened to be getting petrol in the petrol station across the road and had witnessed the accident. As a good scout, he (and I think his best mate Corrie Venter was with him) raced over to turn the engine off and see if he could help, not knowing I was in the car.
Bit of a shock for both of us - to say the least!
I remember standing, leaning against Pat's car at the petrol station, waiting for the ambulance to come for poor Gerald. I was in shock, one minute laughing hilariously and cracking inane jokes - insisting I was fine, then fainting. I know I was soooooo concerned about the fact that my favourite dress had been shredded at the shoulder - how was I going to explain 'this' to Mum when we got home.
So hours after the hospital, Pat took me home and I remember my Mum's face at the door. I never wanted that look of fear and worry on her face again...
It had probably been there many times during some very scary years in Zambia, but for the most part, she didn't let me see it.
Sue Coughlan, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, 16 July 2006 at 02:51:27 (UTC)
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Gawd - what's with all the spelling mistakes and wrong words - shiny/shine, read/rear etc? I carefully checked it in Word first!
Does it automatically change stuff when it's posted? Sorry everyone.
Sue Coughlan, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, 16 July 2006 at 02:56:31 (UTC)
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We were lucky to survive our childhoods, for many reasons.
I wouldn't like to be young now for quids.
The world seems such a scary place with so many more things to worry about. And it worries me greatly that so many rely on their mobile phones to keep them or their children safe.
I used say to my daughter; 'keep yourself out of harm because if you phone me to tell me you've in the city and scared, it would take me half an hour - driving at speed in a state of sheer panic - to get there and it could be too late!'
Sue Coughlan, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, 16 July 2006 at 03:10:20 (UTC)
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Great posting, Sue. By the way, it was the Sarson twins you are thinking of. Gerald and John. Gerald is or was a member of the GNR.
Would you believe I heard on the news last night that there are ring tones for cell phones that are the sound of a mosquito and apparently the pitch is too high for an adult to hear. I'm not kidding. They can be heard by kids, but only up to around 17 or 18 yrs old and then the nerve endings in their ear drum, or whatever we hear sound with, are not acute enough to hear the sound. They were showing two teenage girls listening to the rings and they could walk as far away as the door of the room, and the parents had their heads as close as possible to the computer screen as they were demonstrating the sound you could download, and they simply could not hear it. They were saying it is helping kids not get caught at school because the teachers cannot hear the ring. And parents can't hear the phones ringing after they are not supposed to be on their phones at night. It appears to be all the rage now. I was rushing to turn the sound down on the TV while they were discussing it, but I would imagine my astute teenage son already knows about it. All I can say is they never recorded a bloody Zambian mosquito for those ring tones.
Ah... the joys of parenting.
Linda Hayes, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, 16 July 2006 at 03:49:34 (UTC)
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Thanks Linda - you're right. Perhaps it was also John who had his leg smashed - not Gerald?
Sue Coughlan, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, 16 July 2006 at 05:35:11 (UTC)
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Sue, I agree it is very scary for us with young teenagers these days.....I am glad my girls have good sensible heads on their shoulders.....even down to Alice ringing me up at 1am "come and get me in Northbridge" and yes I did....
Linda, my girls came home from school with a directive on mobile phones, they have to sign their phones in every day, and if they get caught with their phones they get confiscated, and the parents themselves have to retrieve the phones.....also MP3 players are banned....which is good, the kids now can concentrate more on their work....
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I lked this one in the morning paper.
A closed mouth gathers no feet.
Johnny, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, 16 July 2006 at 11:48:24 (UTC)
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Sue
Thanks for sharing the story. Just glad you all lived to tell the tale.
Sneaked out at 14 about three times in Kabulonga and visited friends in Woodlands. Went up to Solveig's and Meriel's for those of you who knew Solveig and Meriel. Woke Meriel's older brother who happened to have a crush on me, one night. (He was in the minority, but it happens to be a fact of the story). These early night-time follies ended abruptly. On the last one I had just crossed the Leopard's Hill Rd on my bike and was going down the hill to Kabulonga about 3 in the morning when two Africans were walking up the hill and one ran and grabbed my bike. I told them very angrily: "I have my dog behind me and you better let go because he is going to KILL YOU!" and started whistling for a non-existant dog. He let go and I broke the land speed record for bicycles. Let us not reflect further on that incident. Early adolescent night time rambles ceased.
Boarding at Lusaka Convent, the prefects windows looked out onto a flat roof which had a conveniently placed breeze-block wall you climbed down just like a ladder. One of the advantages of being a prefect.
Tina
Tina Magee, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, 16 July 2006 at 18:05:51 (UTC)
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linda, me deah,
I never, no never, what ever? no, snuck out at night. At home.
Ma would have looked at me. Die!
But at boarding school?!!
Aaah, there's another thing, maties.
Being an A level type, but too bad for a prefect, I toddled out whenever I wanted to. Just stroll past the house mastwer's pllace and disappear. Or up the road to Jean Rennie and, using my trusty master key, open a door for a lady and off to the cricket pavilion.
Thereupon to talk about philisophy and related topics.
As a non--parent, I would have no recommendations other than to develop a 'look' which, tho rarely used, would bode unknown terrors to come.
Dunno, it worked for me.
Bill Knott, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, 16 July 2006 at 19:02:21 (UTC)
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June,
I was delighted to find G.N.R. again tonight, and see that you have both been reconnected.
I was beginning to think that my 'black out' had something to do with Eskom, Granny Fingers or something worse.
Take Care,
Monica.
Monica Robson, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, 16 July 2006 at 19:53:32 (UTC)
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Linda - certain stores/malls in UK have been broadcasting that ultrasonic mozzie sound loudly outside their premises ...... the under 25's can hear it and won't congregate and cause trouble because of the irritation. I'd like a spray can version .........
Nick Tyler, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, 16 July 2006 at 22:50:13 (UTC)
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I liked this one.
Alcohol doesn't solve any problems, but then again, neither does milk.
Johnny, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, 17 July 2006 at 02:51:26 (UTC)
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June,
All Blacks beat Wallabies by 20 points one weekend then the Wallabies beat the Springboks by 49 points one week later. What are the chances of a major upset next weekend when the Springboks play in NZ? Good luck. It's only a 2 horse race so a few dollars on the Springboks could pay dividends.
Keith Binns, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, 17 July 2006 at 14:03:00 (UTC)
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Peter, I loved the following quote from the BBC article you linked us to:
The company employs 25,000 people including 15,000 "Hooters Girls" and has been heavily criticised for exploiting attractive women.
But on its website the firm says such claims are "as ridiculous as saying the NFL exploits men who are big and fast".
Keith Binns, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, 17 July 2006 at 14:04:48 (UTC)
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Keith lets face it, "pigs may fly"
Once upon time, many many moons ago, it was case of how much will we
win by, not will we win.(In those days the Boks never played in Durban, Craven and Co. made sure of that)
Hate to admit this I have more confidence in the English football team.
I suppose many of us will have to take the stick when the Boks are trashed at Twikenham once again later this year, nothing worse than a winning English rugby supporter.
Alec Swan, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, 17 July 2006 at 14:48:10 (UTC)
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Alec,
Sorry? Why not Durban? Altitude (lack of) or some political divide?
Keith Binns, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, 17 July 2006 at 14:57:36 (UTC)
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Political divide. As long as the Union Jack flew on the City Hall we had no chance.
Alec Swan, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, 17 July 2006 at 15:38:22 (UTC)
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Subject: Removing Gallstones Naturally
Removing Gallstones Naturally
By Dr Lai Chiu-Nan
It has worked for many. If it works for you please pass on the good news. Chiu Nan is not charging for it, so we should make it free for everyone. Your reward is when someone, through your word of mouth, benefits from the regime. Gallstones may not be everyone's concern.
But the y should be because we all have them. Moreover, gallstones may lead to cancer.
"Cancer is never the first illness," Chiu Nan points out. "Usually, there are a lot of other problems leading to cancer in my research in China; I came across some material which says that people with cancer usually have stones. We all have gallstones. It's a matter of big or small, many or few.
One of the symptoms of gallstones is a feeling of bloated ness after a heavy meal. You feel like you can't digest the food. If it gets more serious, you feel pain in the liver area." So if you think you have gallstones, Chiu Nan offers the following method to remove them naturally. The treatment is also good for those with a weak liver, because the liver and gallbladder are closely linked.
Regimen:
&nbs p;
1. For the first five days, take four glasses of apple juice everyday.
Or eat four or five apples, whichever you prefer. Apple juice softens the gallstones. During the five days, eat normally.
2. on the sixth day, take no dinner.
3. at 6 pm, take a teaspoon of Epsom salt (magnesium sulphate) with a glass of warm water.
4. at 8 pm, repeat the same. Magnesium sulphate opens the gallbladder ducts.
5. at 10 pm, take half cup olive oil (or sesame oil) with half cup fresh lemon juice. Mix it well and drink it. The oil lubricates the stones to ease their passage.
The next morning, you wi ll find green stones in your stools. "Usually they float," Chiu Nan notes. "You might want to count them. I have had people who pass 40, 50 or up to 100 stones. Very many. "Even if you don't have any symptoms of gallstones, you still might have some. It's
always good to give your gall bladder clean up now and then.
PASS THIS AND YOU MAY HELP OTHER
Consult your doctor if you have any doubt
I have not tried this but if someone does please let me know the outcome!
Fay
Fay, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, 17 July 2006 at 19:03:07 (UTC)
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It is with shock and sorrow that Ronnie de Kock (Nkana/Kitwe), contacted me with the tragic loss of his sister Maria Francis. She was on a mountain bike hike in the Italian Alps near a town Brescia. It happened so quickly that her partner only heard her call out. A helicopter retrieved her body 118 metres just above the lake.
Ron and I have been pals during our Frederick Knapp School days. To Ron and Elise' and his sister Claire and Adrianne I am sure
our heartfelt sympathy for your loss comes from all your FKS friends.
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On the bright side: I spoke to Spike Hovelmeier, he is recovering from a major stomach opperation which was performed in Jo'burg. Bunny his wife will accompany him back to Kitwe. He tells me that Ken Stappard and Bertie Roomer are still up there.
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I was not surprised in Glen Drake being taken off the GNR, he has been tendering for a long time. I had a go at him, and what do you get, a man who has a way with words. This is not what the GNR is all about, if we are going to take a go at everyone then what we shared in Northern Rhoesia has been all lost. I doubt if their is one amongst us, who feels bitter towards the events that brought in the winds of change. I have been back, and do you know the sense of humour still exist.
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I want to start the ball rolling, each and every one of you have a tale to tell, this is my 'I can remember'..............
In 1950 our 1937 Chevrolet nosed down to the Vic Falls at a breath taking speed of 40mph. It was Dads casual leave, a break from his shaft timbermans daily routine at Mindola Shaft. There was no short cut from the Luanshya / Nkana / Ndola turn-off, one had to go through Ndola then tackle that red dusty Kapiri M'posi / Broken Hill run. Beyond Choma was our first stop where a road ganger friend of the family had his base. He was known as 'Mooiboetie' van Rensburg, a typical Afrikaans name that stuck, meaning good looking.
His old farm house was 50 yards off the road, surounded by gauze veranda, the back section was 15 paces long and lined with wire to dry out biltong, what a feast. Younger brother 'Goodbit' and I enjoyed our run about in the bush picking the sweet scented 'Mahobo hobo's' fruit. That evening he entertained us around a crackling fire and braai with steaks the size of a 'Baluba's' foot, Congolese that is.
He had a way in telling stories and the one which went down well and all the way back to Nkana, was the surprise visit from his Chief Public Works Roads Dept engineer, a DC and the Chief Southern Region NRP man. He instructed his cook boy to prepare something nice for when they return on the road inspection. They all settled down to tea and fresh scones, and eventually thanked everyone and returned to Lusaka.
He called the cook and asked where he managed to find milk, as there was none this morning. "Ow bwana, mina kona lo plan," ( Oh boss I had this plan), he reminded his bwana that his wife has this baby, and she saw to it that each cup of tea had milk taken from her breast. He said their was moment of silence, should I nick him across the ear or explane to him later that this is not done in our custom. I can still see the look on our folks faces, and swear they could taste it by the expressions on their faces.
Skatie Fourie, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, 17 July 2006 at 20:38:19 (UTC)
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Why can we not all just remember the wonderful times of the past on the Copper Belt. Why pick on each other.Words to me are nothing "sticks and stones".
My fondest was Crabing on Mindola Dam when I was learning to Row. Swiming down on the Kafue. The Rhokana Mine Club Pool. Going to both Bio - Scopes the Astra and Rhokana . Friday night rock sessions at the Anglican church Hall. Man those were the days.??
But it seems people just want the last word. Or is it just we all getting long in the tooth.
Chris Drake
the other one.
Christopher Drake, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, 18 July 2006 at 02:54:45 (UTC)
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For more on flushing gallstones visit this site:
http://www.chem-tox.com/gallstones/download/index.htm
Cheers Ron
Ron Clibborn-Dyer, China [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, 18 July 2006 at 03:47:09 (UTC)
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Hi Keith
Only a two horse race hey? If I have a 50% chance of being right I'm usually wrong so I don't hold out much hope - mind you, on the positive side, the worst the Boks can do is bring home a Bronze!!
Monica (flower girl connection) - please mail me directly - I need your address! Can you imagine how chuffed my father was with the Boks performance on Saturday?
June Ross, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, 18 July 2006 at 05:22:05 (UTC)
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Linda
Kids here in Scotland can get married!! at 16.
The younger ones run wild till all hours of the morning.
(If they are that way inclined).
Nicky Kontou, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, 18 July 2006 at 11:29:10 (UTC)
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Greetings Skatie
Your story about 'Mooi Boetie' has confirmed the great entertainment value that the GNR gives us old codgers!
As a wide-eyed seven year old In the mid forties, I was introduced by my Dad to a larger than life Afrikaner by that nickname.
I remember that he was a kindly big man with a seriously pockmarked face. My Dad said that he had survived a dose of smallpoxed which left him badly scarred.
I guess someone gave him the monicker to ease his selfconciousness.
In any event, this was a man that walked the walk & did not
look for problems that did not exist. In the time that we enjoyed his friendship I did not ever hear him ever complain or speak ill of anyone.
He was adored by all the kids & always had time to spend
entertaining them with his bushveld tales.
He was also a wonderful farmer/gardener & the small space at the back of his single quarters was a veritable oasis garden of fruit trees, flowers & prime quality veggies.
Could this be the same Gentleman that you knew?
Best regards Bill
Bill Hunt, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Tuesday, 18 July 2006 at 18:28:49 (UTC)
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Nicky : Not to mention the present trend of starting families as young as twelve. ( proud grandparents of thirty posing for the press) For some reason well beyond me Scotland has now come top of the table in the world for children under the age of sixteen having babies.
One of the reasons may be the total breakdown of family values in the inner cities owing to the second generation of drug abusers having little or no interest in anything else other than the next fix. Although at present Scotland may have an horrendous drug problem,( following on from a genetic-based alcoholic culture), so do many other countries, so this alone can't provide the answer.
The Other Male Duck : Surely there are still good times in the Belt as well as in the past? Albeit you are not there to participate therein ! I think we should be told!!
There seems to a helluva lot of "girlie-blouse" issues at present without any attempt at serious debate on subjects of relative importance to Zambia and the rest of our world in general, Doug, Chriss, yourself and many others ( some sadly no longer with us in script but in soul) in the past kept us on a high, waiting for the next reposte!
Even if the present destruction of civilian homes and the taking of innocent lives of women and children in Beruit in retaliation for the abduction of millitary personel does not warrant a mention here, I would just like to record my abhorance of the fact and hope that for us all, no matter where in the world we may be at present, that a solution will soon be found as we will, no matter where, soon be affected by the fall-out! America has already suffered a similar-type backlash on 9 -11. Its just one helluva big ,big, mega mess which religion has got us into( thank God I'm a Druid) at present.
Colin Munro, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, 19 July 2006 at 01:17:00 (UTC)
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Dear Uncle Arthur
Please will you tell Harvey I say 'Happy Birthday' - actually, I have asked my Gram to post this message because I can't really speak yet and I haven't worked out how to see what the numbers on a calendar mean, plus I can't type yet either - is there a problem with my development - do you think?? I am able to sit nicely by myself and I have two very new teeth, plus I am holding my own bottle so I think I'm doing fine!
Love
Jorja Kay Ross
Hi Arthur,
Congrats to you all on the occasion of Harvey's first birthday.
Sunshine and smiles!
June Ross
June Ross, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, 19 July 2006 at 05:46:58 (UTC)
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June, you have a good memory.............
Harvey, have a very happy birthday.......xxxx
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Re: Kitwe Little Theatre - Stage Repair Appeal
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Robin Hales,
I've just come across your message (not been lurking very regularly of late, plus, of course, the site was down for a while) and feel compelled to reply.
As one of the ex-chairmen of NKAS to whom you referred - the other two that I know of are Arthur Lewis in Melbourne and Barry Woodrow in Iceland - I am of course very interested to hear about current events at Kitwe The Little Theatre, and sorry to learn that the stage has to be replaced. However I do not feel obliged to contribute to its replacement for various reasons, not least of which is the fact that my involvement with NKAS ended almost 30 years ago. Furthermore, if I was to offer help for that purpose, I may also feel obliged to assist in the maintenance of the Venus Theatre in Kabwe or of the Victoria Memorial Institute (aka The VMI) in Chipata, if they still exist, as I 'trod the boards' regularly whilst I was staying in those places - and that would be patently ridiculous.
It is up to the present members of NKAS and its committee to raise funds for its maintenance, however difficult that may be. Any past member who wishes to is welcome to make a donation in response to the appeal, but I do not personally feel that I am under any obligation to do so.
Best of luck with your fundraising!
Ray Wright
Ray Wright, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, 19 July 2006 at 09:13:22 (UTC)
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Colin
I think the reason more children under age are having babies are: Parents couldn’t care less, it is cool to do so and they get all the financial benefits going.
Re “Girlie – Blouse issues without any attempt at serious debate” Don’t you think there is enough serious things happening all around us. I think we need more light entertainment. If I wanted to read serious stuff I would read The Scotsman, but I think I will stick to The Sun.
Nicky Kontou, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, 19 July 2006 at 09:59:00 (UTC)
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Re: Kitwe Little Theatre - Stage Repair Appeal
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Robin
Ray Wright's message has jogged my memory concerning your two earlier postings.
I must admit to smiling at your observation that nobody had replied to your first posting - only two days later! The electronic world in which we live today seems to demand instant replies - 30 years ago people were quite content to await an airmail reply to their own letter, with perhaps a brief telex advising that a reply was on its way. Fax machines brought the expectation of a reply within a few days. Today I often receive business emails demanding to know why I haven't answered the email of a few hours previously. The international nature of my business has actually resulted, twice as I recall, in both the original message and the follow-up demand arriving in my email during the same night, whilst I was asleep - it seems that some people now expect most businesses to be available 24/7.
Anyway, back to the subject matter ....
Arthur Lewis was, of course, intimately involved with the design and original construction of Kitwe Little Theatre in the 1950's and so may be said to have had responsibility for the original stage.
As I recall it, much of the stage (downstage from the rearmost fly-bars) was resurfaced in 1971 when the revolving stage was installed and the orchestra pit remodelled. I'm not fully in the picture as this was happening when I joined Nkana Kitwe Arts Society. "Pirates of Penzance" was the first production on the new stage, in May 1971. Ray Wright, being older and therefore more knowledgeable than me, will probably be able to throw more light on this. Anyway, the fact is that the stage had already been largely replaced at least once previously.
I do have to agree with Ray - I do not feel under any obligation to financially support any project at Kitwe Little Theatre. My eight years there gave me a great deal of pleasure (and the occasional hangover!), but I do feel that I put back at least as much as I gained. On the infrastructure side I, in common with a significant number of members over the years, joined in a number of projects, including remodelling the lighting box, a rebuild of the backstage area and the creation of the Scrypt Bar, rebuild of the main bar, rebuild of the coffee bar, building the swimming pool etc. Somehow I still managed to find time to involve myself in shows and NKAS administration.
I have many, many happy memories of Kitwe Little Theatre and am always interested in news of current activities. But, echoing Ray's words, time moves on and I have other interests today. I believe that the present membership of NKAS need to take responsibility for fund-raising, just as we did 35 or so years ago.
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Colin,
It is a shame that those who go about preaching the values of civilised societies (re: the two B's), have remained silent.Infact, anyone with any sense can see that these same leaders who claim to hold the moral ground, are silently nodding their heads in approval at the wholesale destruction (once again) of a country and the killing (mild word) of innocent children and civilians. Isn't it a shame that no Politician from the main parties here has had the guts so far, to condemn this slaughter. The use of the word hypocrite comes to mind.Somehow,I believe this time, more has been bitten than can be chewed.
Ayub Ismail Zumla, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, 19 July 2006 at 12:25:19 (UTC)
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Nicky:
Thanks for your comment on the Girlie Blousie remark. I agree. I rather enjoy the light-hearted banter myself. Otherwise we would forever have our foreheads furrowed instead of wrinkling up our eyes in laughter.
Once Doug gets back into town, I am sure we will have more political information and debate to read, if we choose.
Linda Hayes, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, 19 July 2006 at 12:30:55 (UTC)
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Reminds me of the movie, "Doctor in the House".
Doctor (to teenage girl patient), "Big breaths now"
Girl patient,"Yeth, and I'm only thixthteen!"
Ken Fernie, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, 19 July 2006 at 18:02:44 (UTC)
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Colin
Lovely mental picture of an ancient Mum nagging her daughter. "I don't know what to do with you, going off all hours of the night, dancing naked in that religious cult with all those other Druids. It's not like we didn't try to bring you up proper!".... etc. etc.
Tina Magee, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, 19 July 2006 at 18:05:30 (UTC)
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What a storm in a teacup, as somebody said! I have sat back and observed the furor, being somewhat surprised at the instant justice; (or injustice, some might well say). Allow me to put in my belated 10 cents; playing devil’s advocate as usual.
I heartily agree that personal attacks and abuse should be outlawed having myself been the victim of so many. Many years ago somebody took umbrage at something I had posted and said my name should be gonorrhea not Grewar. Now that’s a seriously good abusive insult, far exceeding ‘hypocrite’ in offensiveness, but he is still here and I am still here, and we are the best of friends. We are mature enough to laugh such things off.
I have been called a heartless capitalist, a pinko flip flop liberal, and a bigot. Not once have any of my 42 wives leapt to my defense with devastating articulation to get my abusers banished. Maybe I should have married an Irishman!? In all fairness, I must admit that I have enjoyed provoking and crossing verbal swords with some of my abusers.
Now it is very understandable that a man should react defensively when he feels his good lady’s name is being abused, but as usual our volatile friend Paudie, delighted at this chance, overreacted and came charging in like a combined Impi of IRA and Black & Tans with all guns and bazookas firing, before poor Sue had a chance to respond. Of course, now she has to stand by her man.
Knowing what tough cookies our NR ladies are I am sure that Sue could have very effectively squashed Glen with a reply such as: “My Dear Glen, I am delighted to learn that you can actually read; poetry even! Noting the effect my verse has on you I will be emailing you a new poem twice daily! Happy Puking – Love Sue.” This would have done the job effectively without all the blood, snot and tears.
Indeed Paudie, Glen was having an indirect dig at you, and he was wrong to do this, but if he says your wife’s poetry is hypocritical and makes him puke, is that really so serious? It is, in fact, just an opinion not a personal insult at all. Your calling him a troll and a coward on the other hand seems to be quite acceptable! If you had ignored his posting at least 99.5% of the membership would have had no idea what he was talking about.
Paudie you used to have long hair like a happy Cavalier. Since you have chopped it off you seem to have become a humorless Roundhead like Oliver Cromwell. Take a double dop of brandy, a long drag on your joint, twang your guitar, give Sue an affectionate tickle and loosen up man! Over-civilization and over sensitivity is soooo bboorrrring!
BTW Glen denies your unsubstantiated allegation that he is currently sending increasingly nasty and threatening emails to Craig, Sue and yourself. Craig will know whether there is any truth in this.
The message board has recently become a rather silly chit chat board, with very little about its real reason for existence, namely Zambia and Africa. If on top of this people are to get the chop so easily our tea room will degenerate into a baby’s milk room with the milk watered down.
I would suggest, with all due respect, that maybe you, and then Craig, overreacted and would ask you both to reconsider. I think a ‘watch it’ or yellow card would have sufficed, if anything at all was necessary. Anyway that’s just my opinion.
Best Regards - Doug
Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, 19 July 2006 at 18:15:26 (UTC)
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Free At Last!
The Harare 3, Kevin John Woods, Philip Mazisa Conjwayo and Michael Anthony Smith have be released from Mugabe’s hell hole jails after an ordeal lasting 18 years. They were South African Special Forces soldiers sent to attack ANC bases in Zimbabwe. They should have been released as prisoners of war after 1994 as even Mandela requested, but Mugabe was vindictive.
Hippi follows in Huberta’s footsteps.
In 1928 Huberta a female hippo began a 3 year trek from St. Lucia in KwaZuluNatal to the Eastern Cape earning fame along the way. She was shot by hunters while basking in the Keiskamma River in 1931.
Six months ago a hippo appeared in the rural area outside Stutterheim near Port Elizabeth. It became famous because of its nocturnal escapades. Attempts to find where it had come from failed. All local game park owners denied that it was one of theirs. For the last 3 weeks it has been at Amabele dam near Stutterheim about 200m from the N6 freeway.
Graham Stanton a conservationist and game reserve owner, offered to give the hippo a permanent home on his property. However when he went to collect it a few days ago Hippi had done a duck. Has anybody seen a lost hippo?
Happy Birthday
Ex-President Mandela turned 88 on the 17th of July. I wish they could clone him so that he could be President for ever.
Just as a Kingdom is so called because it is led by a King we are called a country…….
Foreign armies.
Of the sixteen men arrested in the aftermath of the Jeppestown shootout, causing 12 deaths, 5 are Zims, 8 are South Africans and 3 are Mozambicans.
Cops copping it!
In the first 6 months of 2006 52 cops have been killed by criminals as against 33 in the same period last year.
Futi
Mbeki says 2010 will be a World Cup to remember. I bet it will! How many fans were murdered in the German World Cup? Better they relocate it to somewhere safe like Iraq or Lebanon.
Tjiers - Doug
Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, 19 July 2006 at 18:23:41 (UTC)
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I am back!
I cut short my visit to Zambia because it was boring. Also on the eve of my flight north I lost a filling, the day after my arrival another filling fell out and the next day one of my molars broke in half on a toffee. This realy makes one feel grumpy. I am ready for the compost heap!
Chinyerezi Chintu's sister Stella is a dentist and she fixed me up with some tempory fillings, quite painlessly, apart from my wallet. I see my own Vryheid dentist tomorrow for new fillings and a crown, and more pain to my wallet. Yugh!
I am sorry I missed connecting with Heather and also by the time I got hold of my friend Harry Sillitoe I found I had just missed a hunting trip to the Kafue flats with him to convert some lechwe into braai meat and biltong. Probably just as well. The biltong would have finished the rest of my fangs.
Boring because everyone was busy with their own jobs and there was no spare vehicle for me to drive around in. I should have hired one at the airport but Lusaka driving is quite scary. They drive a lot slower than Joburg and the taxi drivers aren't armed and trigger happy but there are so many vehicles crowded into the small roads that it is a bit unnerving to a stranger.
The roads continue to improve with the retarring and road building program but what is needed is motorways to get the often gridlocked traffic moving. Of course there is no chance of this as there are so many more pressing needs on the fiscus.
There is a lot of new residential and commercial construction taking place, but the town planning is a disaster. Rich people build mansions and then shanty towns spring up next to them. I did not see any new housing projects for the low paid workers. Wages for the ordinary working Zambians seem to be around half of what they would earn in RSA and the prices in Game and Spar are almost exactly double RSA prices. This is just an impression. Heather could certainly give more accurate figures.
House prices are even more horrific than in RSA but expatriates and business people seem to be making money. Fuel is circa R13 or £1 per litre; double what we pay in RSA.
Lusaka seems to be a small town that has just outgrown itself into a massive urban sprawl sucking in people and resources from the rest of the country. It is a shame that development could not be more evenly spread around, to a series of smaller more human friendly towns, rather than the trend towards having a few urbaniased megapolises and vast stretches of empty land in between.
The same thing is happening in South Africa, and many other countries I guess. The only country that I have visited where the population is more evenly spread between a number of smaller cities is Germany.
Cheers - Doug
Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, 19 July 2006 at 19:16:52 (UTC)
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Doug,
It needed to be said , and you said it !!! .
Regards
Ian
Ian Bell, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, 19 July 2006 at 19:17:21 (UTC)
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Ray
Glad your book arrived at long last! Enjoy! Thanks for giving the Amarula Cream to Ali for me.
Ali
Enjoy! Glug glug!
We now have a new drink called Marula. It tastes much more like the real thing and is great when poured over Rum & Raisin ice cream. I will get you some when you come to RSA.
Happy Daze - Doug
Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Wednesday, 19 July 2006 at 19:26:35 (UTC)
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Doug reveals:
We now have a new drink called Marula.
You are joking? or are you talking perhaps of a new Marula hard drink? Marula Liquor has been around since Vasco da Gama (well, almost), but it was difficult to find. Good stuff.
Doug, you are risking censure talking about Glen's red card. I tried to say much the same thing as you did, but many of the usual suspects came out in support of the red card, and Craig responded like an attorney (They get paid by the word!)
Mandela cloned? Jislaaick ou bees. Listening to you talking up the dark continent, one might get the impression that there are millions of clones there already. I guess the problem is that we cannot be sure whether you are in the flop mode, or the flip mode?
Just at the time you departed, Warren Buffet donated US$37 BILLION to the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. I have yet to find your letters of appeal to the Gates', asking them NOT to send any of it to Africa, as the loot was accumulated by another one of those rich evil yankee capitalists - whom you despise so much.
Glad to have you back ou bees, and glad we agree on the infantile behaviour displayed by the usual suspects. Paudie has been very silent of late. Perhaps he is appealing to the politbureau to have the banning reversed.
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HAPPY BIRTHDAY CRAIG.........may you have many many more, and all your wishes come true...........
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A very happy birthday to you Craig.
Linda Hayes, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, 20 July 2006 at 02:56:51 (UTC)
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My Dear Doug,
Thanks for your opinion ~ we are ALL entitled to them however, that does not entitle anyone to personally attack or insult at will!
Obviously this is not going to go away until I say something, so I will just this once, answer your suggestions...
Firstly, yes, I am very lucky to have a man who stands by me as I stand completely by him. Me thinks this causes men who cannot hope to measure up to Paudie, a considerable amount of jealousy, hence the insults and nastiness.
Secondly, I and NOT Paudie shot off an official complaint to the Management ~ my name isn't Sue for nothing! And I considered doing that too!
Unlike you, I am not used to being insulted even if it was an infantile attempt at attention by someone who means nothing to me. I am used to courtesy ~ if that makes me a wimp - so be it. I am proud of my approach to others. Paudie has done nothing but support me as any decent husband and human being would.
Thirdly, I don't push my poetry here and fully understand it is an aquired taste which not many have. Neither do I expect members to read my website, but I sincerely thank those 84 who did on a certain day recently... whether they like it or not, I am pleased they had the chance to read it.
As to poetic critiques ~ those only have value if offered by someone who has a valid opinion, someone who is (at least) equally recognised in the field.
Finally, by putting 'your 10 cents worth' you perpetuate the furore - is this deliberate Doug? Surely you wouldn't deliberately want to see GNR members at odds? (Rhetorical.) The Management have made their decision. There will always be those for and against the argument but can't we all agree to disagree and please MOVE ON! It's all pretty boring.
Oh and by the way Doug, I usually enoy your postings even though I don't always agree, I read them with interest. But please don't patronize me.
Sue Coughlan, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, 20 July 2006 at 03:05:42 (UTC)
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Whereve you are Craig, I hope you are surrounded by love! You deserve it. Happy Birthday from both of us!
Sue Coughlan, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, 20 July 2006 at 03:08:32 (UTC)
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Hi Doug
As Sue says, thanks for your opinion. I too have enjoyed most of your postings over the years, especially when you stick to debate and stay away from debait.
Regarding the Marula drink - is this an alcoholic drink or a "cool drink"? Also, what is its brand name?
Paudie Coughlan, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, 20 July 2006 at 04:50:38 (UTC)
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Many happy returns of the day Craig!
An abundance of sunshine and smiles.
Ali, I can't take credit for a good memory - Harvey and Natalie, my daughter, share the same birthdate - albeit many years apart, so no 'Noddy badges' for me to remember such a special day!
June Ross, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, 20 July 2006 at 04:51:35 (UTC)
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Ali, Sue, Linda and June,
Thanks for the wishes. Sue, I'm on the GNR message board right now; you decide what I'm surrounded by.
Doug,
Nice to see you back and I'm even happier to hear of the freeing of the Harare 3. (It didn't make the news here.)
We will have to agree to disagree on Glen. I simply don't see any parallels between his unprovoked attacks and stuff that comes up in the heat of debate. Two apparently similar insults can be vastly different depending on the context. And Glen already had his "yellow card". But I'll cut my reply short here lest I raise the ire of people with nothing better to do than count my words.
Ian "Me Too" Bell,
Perhaps you'd like to contribute something more than your cryptic, one-line me-too's. The nature of your contribution to this debate seems to be to wait for someone else to say something, and then shout (along the lines of "Me too!"), "It needed to be said, [but I didn't/couldn't/wouldn't say anything] and you said it!!!"
Chris,
You pretty much demand reaction from me then criticise the way I reply ("like an attorney") rather than addressing the (apparently substantial) substance of my reply. There's no pleasing you. Nobody (even you) is risking censure at this point. Please reset your Doomsday Clock and get off your boring hobby horse.
Craig Hartnett, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, 20 July 2006 at 05:18:21 (UTC)
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Doug Grewar wrote:
""The message board has recently become a rather silly chit chat board, with very little about its real reason for existence, namely Zambia and Africa. If on top of this people are to get the chop so easily our tea room will degenerate into a baby’s milk room with the milk watered down""
You've got it 100% correct there, Doug (Hey - I actually agree with you!). There are far too many folk here who cannot handle robust debate. As a rare poster to, but regular reader of, this forum, my impression is that there a few 'sacred' members who simply must never be challenged or criticised ... and if they are, the challenger / critic risks punitive action, based on the perceived insult that one of the 'sacred' has interpreted as being just too terrible. Boring ....
Alan Tomlinson, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, 20 July 2006 at 05:23:20 (UTC)
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AMEN
Doron Grill, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, 20 July 2006 at 05:32:20 (UTC)
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Ayub, what are you referring to? try to be very explicit!
Doron Grill, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, 20 July 2006 at 05:40:12 (UTC)
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Alan,
Please list the "sacred" members. I need to know who they are because I don't actually have a list.
Doron,
Me too!
Craig Hartnett, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, 20 July 2006 at 05:40:19 (UTC)
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Hi Linda
In belated response to your offer of an affair prior to the category 1 storm that sunk the server for a while, I might have to accept it because arthritis in the hand is hampering my ardor but not the enthusiasm and I need assistance badly.
Of course this depends on whether you can get away from Johnny’s Harem.
Aged Sixteen
Tony Petzer, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, 20 July 2006 at 07:48:49 (UTC)
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Happy birthday Craig. Have a good day and a naughty night.
Maxie.
Maxie Lindenberg, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, 20 July 2006 at 09:32:30 (UTC)
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Happy birthday Craig. I hope the rest of your life is long and peaceful.
I don’t envy you one bit, with all this bickering.
Peace be with you young man.
Nicky Kontou, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, 20 July 2006 at 09:36:15 (UTC)
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For those who have been waiting for it, the joining form is working again. Sorry for the wait.
Maxie and Nicky,
Thank-you.
Craig Hartnett, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, 20 July 2006 at 11:36:13 (UTC)
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Craig
And a very Happy Birthday from me also !!
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From a ‘somewhere in the middle of shades of grey’ friend.
Regards
CJ
Charles Cartmill, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, 20 July 2006 at 12:01:57 (UTC)
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Doug,
What a pity you missed the Lechwe hunt – on the Kafue Flats, nogal. That must demand some neat long-range shooting, or was it a “chila”? Don’t Lechwe drop their calves this time of the year? One of the few pairs of horns I‘ve kept from past hunts is of a fine Red Lechwe. I read the Cape Nature Conservation propose declaring Fallow Deer alien to the Cape. They intend removing them from the slopes of Table Mountain (as they did the Tahrs) and Robben Island. What a pity. The newspaper article falsely reported that Cecil John Rhodes was responsible for their introduction to the Cape. He did release some on his Groote Schuur estate in 1897, but there was already a herd on Newlands House estate as early as 1869. I will certainly miss them.
Is your friend Harry Sillitoe related to the late Sir Percy Sillitoe? To quote from “The Story of the Northern Rhodesia Regiment” (Edited by W.V. Brelsford, publisher Galago 1954):
“The recently retired head of M.I.5, Sir Percy Sillitoe, is another Northern Rhodesia Police officer who has reached fame. He began his official career in Southern Rhodesia in the British South Africa Police. Then he transferred to the Northern Rhodesia Police and served with them in the 1914-18 campaign. After the war, in 1921, he resigned his commission to become an administrative officer in Tanganyika. After that he returned to England to become Chief Constable, in turn, of Chesterfield, Sheffield, Bristol, Glasgow, and so on to other responsible posts. He was knighted during the 1939 war and became head of M.I.5 during the later years of that war.”
Regards
Charles Cartmill, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, 20 July 2006 at 12:04:54 (UTC)
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Boy, I wish I was still in my early thirties hee, hee!!!!
On being sacred:
Josee tells me not only am I sacred but I am really cute too hee, hee...
See guys - this is absolute proof that buying a red rose and an "I love you" card for no reason what so ever for your missus can do absolute wonders.
Peter Dielissen, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, 20 July 2006 at 13:40:38 (UTC)
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Happy Birthday D.S. Hope your day is filled with love and happiness and may you have many,many more.
Much love
Mike
xx
Michael Minne, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, 20 July 2006 at 14:25:13 (UTC)
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For those members who remember him, I have just received news that my ex~husband Gus, passed away in White River, South Africa, at 3.30p.m. S.A. time this afternoon, after a long illness. He was 66.
Maxie.
Maxie Lindenberg, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, 20 July 2006 at 14:42:42 (UTC)
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Hi All
I fell asleep out of boredom and I awoke of my own accord hoping the subject had been dropped, abandoned or at least discarded. But, alas, no, it is still thriving which is what the subject wants.
I am now bored with a particular discussion and as the person being defended, (whatever) has taken up a platform at another site and is happily ranting, airing his little attitudes we can now get off the subject.. He obviously needs a little platform for himself so I reckon he can start his own little soapbox on MSN, Yahoo or wherever and we can go there if we choose to or not but like most indecent exposure posers, it Is best to ignore him. He gets his kicks from people watching him or responding to him
Please, pretty please can we have another subject of dicsussion.
I read an interesting article today on how the Saxons (a Germanic nation) basically destroyed the Britons by banning intermarriage during the 6 th and 7 th century. Withiin 13 generations the Britons had been so diluted that there are very few people in Britain with more than 10% British blood in them.
This just goes to prove that neither Hitler or the Afrikaners actually invented Apartheid, the English word is segregation.
Quoted from http://www.cbc.ca/story/science/national/2006/07/19/anglo-saxons.html?ref=rss
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'Apartheid' society gave edge to Anglo-Saxons, study suggests
The Anglo-Saxons who invaded England centuries ago set up an apartheid society to outbreed native Britons, biologists say.
It's thought that between 10,000 and 200,000 migrants from present-day Germany, northern Holland and Denmark moved to England between the 5th and 7th century AD, when the native population was more than two million.
But in fewer than 15 generations, more than half the gene pool in England showed Germanic roots, biologist Mark Thomas of the University College London and his colleagues report in Thursday's issue of the journal Proceedings of the Royal Society B.
The military power and economic advantages of the invaders could have enabled more of their children survive to adulthood, the researchers propose.
"We believe that they also prevented the native British genes getting into the Anglo-Saxon population by restricting intermarriage in a system of apartheid that left the country culturally and genetically Germanised.
"This is exactly what we see today — a population of largely Germanic-genetic origin, speaking a principally German language," Thomas said in a release.
Servant-master relationship
Historical and archeological evidence suggests a servant-master relationship divided along ethnic lines, similar to the apartheid society that segregated blacks from minority whites in South Africa, the researchers said.
The graves of Anglo-Saxon men often contained more weapons and artefacts compared with those of native Britons.
The structure is also reflected in language, with Anglo-Saxons calling the native Britons "Welshmen," from the Germanic word for slave.
Similarly, the laws of Ine, the late seventh-century ruler of Wessex in western England, also showed the life of an Anglo-Saxon was valued more than a "Welshman" of comparable status when it came to paying blood money — reparations for the murder of a family member.
The researchers looked for telltale variations in the male Y chromosome, and then used computer simulations to demonstrate how an apartheid-like society could explain the genetic and linguistic patterns visible today.
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Have fun all
Gwyn
Gwyneth Thomas, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, 20 July 2006 at 17:29:31 (UTC)
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Craig,
oh great sustainer of gossip....
Happy birfday! Many more!
Ummm, better back off Ian Bell.... he is a world -renowned tunneller, so if , one day, you find your Vancouver house slumping into the nether world, it may be because he has undermined thee.
If this does not happen, I have a photo of he and moi and 2 others, toting varied items of firepower, out of Heany in 1964. Pas op,!
Besides, he is a Scot and if you think Doug is bad, yer aint seen nuthin yet.
Har.
Bill Knott, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, 20 July 2006 at 17:51:36 (UTC)
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Craig writes:
"But I'll cut my reply short here lest I raise the ire of people with nothing better to do than count my words."
and
"You pretty much demand reaction from me then criticise the way I reply ("like an attorney") rather than addressing the (apparently substantial) substance of my reply. There's no pleasing you. Nobody (even you) is risking censure at this point. Please reset your Doomsday Clock and get off your boring hobby horse."
We have heard it all before Craig, and so there was really no point in responding in seriatim. The only thing I found quite interesting was the statiscal method you used in proving your point. Virtually everything, and anything, can be argued using some statistical analysis, percentages etc. It would be true to say that there are almost 3,000 folks who have subscribed here. (and that is quite remarkable!!). But using that number in Yellow/Red card calculations is somewhat liquid. If one were to recalc using the handful of "regulars", the landscape changes a tad.
Doug's posting was very cogent in my view, yet it drew howls from some, as might be expected.
Doomsday clock reset! but never boring.
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Chris and Paudie
Marula
You are right about the traditional Marula fruit drink being around for centuries. In Swaziland they call it Maganu and it is very simple to make. The fallen fruit is collected, the skins easily broken off, and the shelled fruit, something similar to a leechi in texture, put in a bucket or similar container. Some people add some water; purists just bruise or crush the fruit a bit for the juice to leak out. It ferments by itself and after 2 to 3 days is quite alcoholic. It continues to get stronger but usually gets guzzled by thirsty people before it gets too devastating. It is virtually free booze. The Swazi bottle stores always lose money in Marula season.
I wonder if Marula trees would grow in Perth, Texas or Hawaii? Here the trees only grow in the lowveld far away from cold Vryheid. Maybe Ron our resident botanist could advise us on this one, when he gets a break from his busy schedule as Guardian of the Temple, and District Commissioner of Chinsali. It could be the start of a whole new industry.
The first commercial Marula drink that was produced is Amarula Cream that to my taste is nothing like the original. Now I have found Marula while in Zambia that seems to be liquor brewed on more traditional lines and has a taste closer to the original. It is a South African product so I will check my local bottle store. Man cannot live by Klipdrif alone as the bible says.
Clones
The reason we appreciate Mandela is that he seemed during his short spell as President to be a person who tried to reconcile people, whereas some of the current shower seem to be following a more sinister route. I also wish we could clone Mugabe just so that we would be able to execute him many times over.
Zimbabwe
While in Zambia I read a book by Martin Meredith called ‘Robert Mugabe – Power, Corruption & Tyranny in Zimbabwe.’ It details the history of Zimbabwe and shows that despite initial reconciliatory speeches Mugabe was already becoming a tyrant from 1981. The many parallels with South Africa are frightening and depressing. It is sometimes hard to keep in the flip mode and hold ‘die blink kant bo’ but for most of us at advanced ages it is impossible to relocate. Furthermore most countries in the world also have problems nowadays. The next stop is the compost heap so we might as well try and enjoy what we have for now!
Warren Buffet
Good on Warren Buffet and Bill Gates. I have absolutely no objection to them sending all their filthy lucre here to Africa especially if it comes to me in Vryheid.
Cheers – Doug
Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, 20 July 2006 at 18:24:46 (UTC)
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Craig
Happy Birthday and many more! All your efforts and those of Arthur and Heather and originally Dave in providing us with the best club in Northern Rhodesia / Zambia are greatly appreciated.
Cheers - Doug
Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, 20 July 2006 at 18:25:50 (UTC)
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My Dear Ticky Sue Sue
Thank you for your response.
I was not being provocative for once. I am just a bit sad at the way things turned out. I only know 5 members of the GNR from the old days and Glen is one of them. Glen’s suspension for his attack on Ali was justified but instant eternal banishment for his little joust at you is very harsh! I feel 3 months for a second offence would have been reasonable with the high jump reserved for third offence.
Of course you find it boring and would be happy to sweep it under the carpet because your objective has been achieved.
I also do not appreciate, enjoy or accept being abused but usually give back as good as I get and with a touch of humor. Life after all is like Chinese food - sweet and sour. If it was gooey sweet all the time it would be sickening.
I am sure Glen will survive the withdrawal symptoms. There actually is life after the GNR.
Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, 20 July 2006 at 18:29:44 (UTC)
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Charles
I have always wondered but never asked if the colored Zambian Sillitoe family came from Sir Percy Sillitoe. It seems likely as the name is very unusual. I read Sir Percy’s autobiography many years ago and nothing was mentioned there about any liason, but such things were usually kept secret in those days. Unfortunately I cannot remember the title of Sir Percy’s story; maybe a google search might find it.
I actually also missed out on a hunting trip here in RSA through going to Zambia. My distant relative Izak Kirsten runs hunting safaris and I was invited along. I guess I will just have to continue getting my meat from the butcher so long.
Best Regards - Doug
Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, 20 July 2006 at 18:31:43 (UTC)
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Gwynn
You posted
"I read an interesting article today on how the Saxons (a Germanic nation) basically destroyed the Britons by banning intermarriage during the 6th and 7th century. Within 13 generations the Britons had been so diluted that there are very few people in Britain with more than 10% British blood in them."
I don't quite understand this. If they started off with 2 million Brits and only 200, 000 Saxons how did the Saxons become the majority. Did they stop the Brits having sex?
If intermarriage was banned how come there was even 10% Brit blood in the mix?
Mystified Doug
Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, 20 July 2006 at 18:50:19 (UTC)
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Maxie
Sorry!
Doug
Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, 20 July 2006 at 18:52:33 (UTC)
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Zambia is OK and in fact improves every time I visit. People are still living well there and enjoying life. I just find Lusaka a bit too overcrowded for me. Also I have been there so many times that any novelty has long worn off.
In all the romanticizing of our memories on this board we must keep a sense of balance. Remember the mozzies, the tsetse flies, the mopani flies, and those damn noisy cicada Xmas beetles. Remember jigger worms in your toes, putse flies in unmentionable places, malaria, bilharzia, elephantitis, leprosy, rabies and river blindness.
Remember the snakes and the scorpions, the wag ‘n bietjie thorns, and the Buffalo beans that could drive one insane with their stinging itch, the cockroaches in the tearooms, the slimy floaters in the beer.
Remember the pompous farts of Colonel Blimps in the colonial service who were so poorly paid that they used to refill their 50 Gold Leaf cigarette packets with cheap brands like ‘Tom Tom’ and ‘OK’ that were sold to the natives in packets of eight.
Remember their socially scrabbling lame brained wives who used to play one upmanship on each other. “I had tea and cucumber sandwiches with ‘His Excellency’ last Wednesday,” would be a knock out blow for the competition. ‘His Excellency’ would of course be that nearest thing to God and the Queen, the Governor of Northern Rhodesia.
I think it was the Lusaka Lawyer Colin Cunningham who wrote such a perceptively sarcastic comment about the Governor and his outlandish uniform. Colin was an Irish and we know how devastating they can be with their mouths. Not English at all old boy, a cad almost! Probably did not even play cricket!
Colin commented, ‘He wears an Admiral’s uniform hundreds of miles from the sea and he wears spurs to drive around in a Rolls Royce.’ After Independence President Kaunda became the new “His Excellency” and the social scrabbling continued among the idle white civil service wives as before.
Remember how they used to starve us at the hostels of Gilbert Rennie School so that we were forced to scrump paw paws and bananas from gardens and farms and rustle the Kalingalinga Indian shopkeeper’s goats. Remember the sting of the rock salt when the banana farmer blasted us with his shotgun, and how surprisingly fast that Indian could run, screaming horrible insults in Gujarati and threatening us with a panga, when he caught us having a goat braai. Eish! Some people have no sense of humor! Especially that terrorist Headmaster Rowe-Robert when we were caught pinching his paw paws.
In different circumstances RR did have a sense of humor. When some fool painted the sign RRA (Rhodesian Republican Army) on the school walls Rowe Roberts comment was, “I thought it meant Rowe Roberts Academy.”
Remember eating dried scabs of bloody meat known as biltong, then at first being disappointed that an Avocado tasted nothing like a pear, and mealies did not taste anything like as good as they looked?
Life in NRZAM was sometimes sweet and sometimes sour!
Doug - guzzling marula and dragging on his joint under a Baobab tree.
Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, 20 July 2006 at 18:56:44 (UTC)
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Ray Wright, Barry W
Sorry Ray, I had forgotten you. Erman was the other one I was referring to. Where the devil is he?
By the way, I was Martin Clothier's pal from Rhokana. I did the Power Plant Clean Air Intake Duct designs for Proderite. (Is it still the biggest I wonder?)
Well I've got Lynda's answer for her, about her appeal that is, mind you I will say that she did pooh pooh my idea about the appeal via the GNR in the first place.
Anybody else like to consider a small contribution?
Robin Hales, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, 20 July 2006 at 19:41:49 (UTC)
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Gwyn
You refer to Glen having a platform at another site. Glen is a member of the Alternative GNR. The Alternative GNR is a site first opened up when the GNR was first closed for a while. I'm not going to talk about Alt. GNR members out here but it would be wrong for anyone to assume that he has a GNR reinstatement platform at that site.
Rocky - happy birthday and the best of good things.
Tina
Tina Magee, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Thursday, 20 July 2006 at 21:36:49 (UTC)
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Maxie,
I didn't know you or Gus but my thoughts are with you...
Sue Coughlan, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, 21 July 2006 at 01:28:04 (UTC)
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Hi Doug
can you please lift the confusion about Marula. We know about the Amarula, which is just delicious. Our biggest problem with it, it is vanishing too fast. We have had a close look at the bottle to find the leak, but there is none.
Is there another drink made from the Marula fruit which is non-alcoholic?
On another accord,
we plan to be back in Zambia in early December this year. For how long, we don't know yet. Our main target will be the Northern Province and the Nyika Plateau.
Bryan
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Doug:
Thanks for ruining my dream of a Majestic return to Lusaka.
Colin Cunningham shot my two pet chickens as they had found too much abundance in his vegetable garden. They would now earn a premium as "Free Range". Some justice was served as I witnessed a daughter riding his car over a flower box in his driveway, as he taught her to drive. They rocked that car as it was accelerated back and forth to no avail. After much smoking rubber, screaming engine, I witnessed it parked where it had been driven for many days. My chickens were still dusted!
Any of Ayub's descriptions of the US of A far exceed the "nasty" bugs and diseases you describe in your attempt to garner our "sense of balance" in our romanticism of our desire to visit home.
I still want to visit my mind pictures of the streets on which I rode by bike, to see the trees that I climbed and to visit the Lusaka Club, Golf Club, Woodlands, Green Parrot, Dairy Den, 20th Century and Chisidza Crescent; no matter if they no longer exist.
Thanks Doug, for trying to keep it all for yourself.
Patrick
San Jose, CA
Patrick Sampson, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, 21 July 2006 at 03:40:27 (UTC)
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Hi Doug
Read the rest of the article. Basically, (very) there was no intermarriage allowed and most of the Briton men were killed off in the fighting or were used as slaves by the saxons. But men being men the Saxons screwed the local Briton slaves and so the Briton genes diluted.
The dilution happened over 15 to 20 generations.
The languages also changed and English has become a Germanic language.
Gwyn
Gwyneth Thomas, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, 21 July 2006 at 04:53:45 (UTC)
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Hi Tina
I merely made the comment that he happily uses the Alt. GNR as a platform but my comment still applies if one ignores him maybe he will just go away.
I saw a movie a while ago called Fierce Creatures and Michael Pavin plays the part of a nutty professor of entymolgy who keeps getting interrupted by person saying inane things. He takes a pause let's the other person finish and then carries on with what he was saying. It is very funny and I think one should apply same methods to himself.
Gwyn
Gwyneth Thomas, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, 21 July 2006 at 04:59:27 (UTC)
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Robin,
I was racking my brains - such as they still are - to place you. Your name was somewhat familiar but I couldn't put a face to you, although we must have met at the theatre on a number of occasions. Your mention of Martin Clothier and the fresh-air duct at Rhokana Power Plant built by Prodorite was a surprise as I thought that he'd done the engineering design himself. Now you tell me it was your goodself, and Martin went on to take the credit!! Never mind. It was a really interesting - not to mention challenging - project and we had a lot of fun and many headaches building and erecting the 3M diameter ducting, particularly where it traversed the main road beyond the Acid Plants.
Incidentally, I did ask Martin in 1976/7 if he'd be interested in another contract in Zambia, but he declined because he'd found a pretty good job in UK and had just bought a new house and didn't want to move again. Are you still in contact with him?
Erman Barbosa is in SA I believe - you should be able to make contact with him through the names directory.
Cheers
Ray Wright
Ray Wright, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, 21 July 2006 at 05:28:40 (UTC)
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Doug writes:
I wonder if Marula trees would grow in Perth, Texas or Hawaii?
Here the trees only grow in the lowveld far away from cold Vryheid.
Maybe Ron our resident botanist could advise us on this one, when he gets a break from his busy schedule as Guardian of the Temple, and District Commissioner of Chinsali. It could be the start of a whole new industry.
Yes Doug, Marula trees will grow just about anywhere there is a sub-tropical climate ~ The Israelis have grown them successfully in the Negev desert.
If you or anyone who has them close by can collect some seeds for me ~ I would love to grow them alongside their cousins the Mangoes in the Temple Garden here in South China.
For more fascinating information on the Marula and police warnings on drinking the potent alcoholic beverage known locally as "Mampoer" in South Africa ~ a local fire water that makes grown men weep. Mampoer was named after chief Mampuru of the ancient Sekukuniland ~ read on.
Happy Daze, Ron
Marula Legends
Legends about marula abound - from its use as a food source, magical qualities as a healing ingredient, to its virility/fertility properties, and the many uses of its bark, leaves, fruit, nut and kernels. Legends include Feast of First Fruits, Xikuha Marula Festival, Ngelengele: Banishing the Worms, The Sacred Tree, The Marriage Tree, Determining Babies' Sex, Sangoma's Dice, Fertility Fruit, The Elephant Tree, Preventing Bad Spirits, The King's Nut, and Fire Water.
Feast of First Fruits
Throughout Southern Africa, the ripening of the marula fruits from December to March is celebrated. The "great harvest" begins in February/March, which also marks planting season.
The Tonga people call marula the "food of kings," and celebrate the "Feast of First Fruits by pouring offerings of fresh juice over the tombs of their dead chiefs.
The Venda people look at the season as a time of festivity. Most time is spent sitting under the shade of the trees, preparing the brew and doing much "quality control" tasting.
In Swaziland, marula is called manganu, baganu, or emanganu, and is so popular that there is an Annual Marula Festival celebrated at the Royal Residence of the King at Ebuhieni in the Hhohho Region of Swaziland between February and March. Both the King and the Queen Mother are presented with marula beer from each household, in keeping with it being a 'fruit fit for kings.' Only afterwards can Swazis drink the beer.
Xikuha Marula Festival
Festivals are held in the marula fruits' honour throughout southern Africa, to celebrate the harvest from the fields in February. At the end of the marula harvesting season, women make marula beer, and gather at the chief's kraal, and sing, present the chief with a calabash full of marula beer. They sing special songs and praises known as "chembe." Everyone is allowed to drink beer, and the festival gives people a sense of oneness and togetherness and belonging.
One person is responsible for guarding the calabash. Once this person tilts the calabash and the women see the calabash in a skew position, then they must go home. The left-over marula beer is called "hongwe" and is considered too strong for women. So the men carry on and celebrate the rest of the marula festival.
Ngelengele: Banishing the Worms
The women first notice that worms emerge from fully-ripened marula fruit on the ground. As they pick marula fruit from the ground to prepare for the Xikuha Marula Festival, the worms are a sign that the planting season is ready to begin. As they move from homestead to homestead celebrating marula, it is believed that the process chases away the worms from the fields. This is known as "ngelengele."
This legend is actually backed up with some scientific fact - as the fruit on the ground ripens, worms are attracted to the sugars of the fruit, and alerts the women to the threat of worms for their crops. They then use the marula fruits to spread around the areas, and the worms actually do disappear.
The Sacred Tree
The northern Sotho people believe that the marula tree was given to the people by the spirits and is, therefore, sacred. It has to be dealt with in the way of the ancestors. Often the marula tree will be the only one left standing in field once the field has been ploughed.
Often during the "First Fruits" ceremony, the ritual slaughter of a goat or black bull will take place, known in Zulu as umsebenzi. This takes place at a specifically selected marula tree, where an offering of marula beer in a clay pot is made to the ancestors at a ceremony where the local traditional spirits, spirit mediums (izangoma) and traditionalists in the community are involved.
The Marriage Tree
A whole range of beliefs is developed around the marula tree; it is known to the Zulu as the "marriage tree," for it is a symbol of fertility and is used in a cleansing ritual before marriage. As the tree is dioecious, meaning there are separate male and female trees, it is not by coincidence that the marula female tree is one of the most prolific fruit producing-trees in Africa.
Determining Babies' Sex
An infusion of the male or female trees' bark is believed to help determine the sex of an unborn child. Amongst the Venda, a woman seeking a baby boy will take in an infusion from the bark of the male tree. Or if a girl, from the female tree. If the child is born of the opposite sex then wished for, then he/she is said to be very special in being able to defy the spirits.
Sangoma's Dice
The marula stone is used as dice by Shangaan diviners, who cast their "bones" to foresee the future or help their clients with a variety of problems or maladies.
Fertility Fruit
Local lore has it that by eating the marula fruit women are more likely to become pregnant. It is probably not a coincidence that when migrant men come home to their rural villages and their wives greet them with marula beer, that when they leave in January for work, that many of the women are pregnant!
The Elephant Tree
It is well known that the elephant loves the taste of marula fruit, and will go to all lengths to get the fruit during harvest season.
Tradition has it that Hare acted kindly towards Elephant during the year of drought, and was rewarded with a tusk. This he planted in his garden, which grew into a beautiful fruit-bearing tree. And so the elephant gave up his precious tusk, and the Hare was able to enjoy marula fruit in the time of famine. Forever after, the elephant seeks out its tusk and devours hundreds of kilograms of fruit during the marula season.
Preventing Bad Spirits
The Ndebele community in Zimbabwe use an infusion of roots and leaves to traditionally wash the body of a person to prevent malevolent spirits from possessing a member of the family. Even traditional healers have been known to fortify themselves by bathing their bodies in a decoction of marula bark before treating infectious diseases.
The King's Nut
The kernel of the marula, though small, is tasty and a rich source of protein in local communities. The Thonga call the nut the "food of kings." In the Kalahari, !Kung Bushmen used a mongongo or wild almond nut, which is outscored by the kernel of the marula nut. Analyses show the marula kernel has up to 3,100 kJ per 100gm, with a high protein and fat content - indeed, the king of foods.
Fire Water
The overripe fruit of Marula is used to brew a very tasty, potent alcoholic beverage known locally as "Mampoer" in South Africa. It is a local fire water that makes grown men weep. Mampoer was named after chief Mampuru of the ancient Sekukuniland, who favoured this drink.
http://www.marula.org.za/legends.htm
BBC News
Swazi police target marula drinkers
Drinkers say there is no hangover
By Bhekie Matsebula in Mbabane
Police in Swaziland have issued strict warnings against the sale and consumption of marula, an intoxicating fruit drink that has unleashed chaos on the southern African kingdom.
Traffic accidents have risen to alarming levels, as have drunken brawls and work absenteeism since the marula fruit came into season earlier this month.
At just R5 (45 cents) a litre, the beer made from the marula fruit - which is similar to the mango - is Swaziland's favourite tipple.
Marula drinkers say the beer is invigorating and does not cause bad hangovers.
And the police are clearly alarmed.
Traffic chaos
Every one of the 30 deaths last year on Swaziland's roads were attributed to marula drinking.
This year, police spokesman Vusi Masuku said traffic police would not hesitate to lock up any driver found even carrying the drink in his car, let alone driving drunk.
Marula tree
The season ends in April
The marula drinking season is even worse than Christmas and New Year, he said.
Police have also warned street vendors that they will arrest anyone found selling the traditional liquor.
A ban has also been imposed on drinking marula in public.
Mr Masuku said that at least four people had been killed so far this year in marula-fuelled brawls.
In one incident, a man and a woman were stabbed to death in Siteki after they ran amok through the small town after a marula binge.
Authorities are also concerned at the number of Swazis who lose their jobs because of their marula habit, many of whom are the main family breadwinner.
Economic losses
On the economic front, Swaziland Brewers - the only western beer manufacturer in the country - has already suffered stunning losses.
Bottle stores and pubs have already reported a decline in sales and most of them said they order no more beer or any other liquor until April, when the marula season comes to an end.
The Ministry of Enterprise and Employment together with town and city councils have said they will step up patrols in streets and parks to clamp down on illegal peddlers.
City police in Mbabane have also added extra patrols in places such as Coronation Park in an attempt to deter any potential lunch-time drinkers.
But the appetite for the drink is insatiable, and buses and trucks carrying loads of 25-litre containers of marula beer are still a common sight on the roads.
Tuesday, 29 January, 2002, 18:43 GMT
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/1789661.stm
Wikepedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marula
(Sclerocarya birrea) (skleros hard, karya walnut in reference to the stone inside the fleshy drupe) is a medium-sized dioecious tree, indigenous to the miombo woodlands of Southern Africa and the Sudano-Sahelian range of West Africa. The tree is a single stemmed tree with a wide spreading crown. It is characterised by a grey mottled bark. The tree grows up to 18m tall mostly in low altitudes and open woodlands. The fruits are used in the liqueur Amarula. The distribution of this species throughout Africa has followed the Bantu in their migrations, as it has been an important item in their diet since time immemorial. When ripe, the fruits have a light yellow skin, with white flesh, rich in vitamin C, are succulent, tart with a strong turpentine flavour. Inside is a walnut-sized, thick-walled stone. These stones, when dry, expose the seeds by shedding 2 (sometimes 3) small circular plugs at one end. The seeds have a delicate nutty flavour and are much sought after, especially by small rodents who know to gnaw exactly where the plugs are located.
Common names: maroela (Afrikaans), Boran (Kenya) - didissa ; English - jelly plum, cat thorn, morula, cider tree, marula, maroola nut/plum; Hausa - dania; Kamba (Kenya) - muua; Kwangali - ufuongo; Lovedu - marula; Maasai (Kenya) - ol-mangwai; Meru (Kenya) - mura; Ndebele - iganu, ikanyi, umganu, umkano; Pedi [fruits] - lerula, marula; Pedi [tree] - morula, merula; Pokot (Kenya) - oruluo; Portuguese (Mozambique) - canhoeiro; Ronga (Mozambique) - ncanhi; Sebei (Kenya) - katetalum; Shangaan - nkanyi, inkanyi; Shona - mutsomo, mukwakwa, mushomo, muganu, mupfura; Shona [fruits] - pfura; Shona [tree] - mufura, mafuna, marula; Swahili, Diga (Kenya) - mngongo; Swati - umganu; Swazi - umganu; Tonga - tsua, tsula, umganu; Tswana - morula; Tugen (Kenya) - tololokwo; Zulu [fruits]- amaganu, [seeds] - umganu, [tree] - umganu.
Relationships: Belongs to the same family Anacardiaceae as the mango, cashew nut, pistachio and Rhus.
[edit]
Uses
* The seed kernels are high in protein and fat with a subtle nutty flavour and constitute an important emergency food.
* Fruits are commonly eaten fresh or used to prepare juice, jelly and alcoholic drink.
* Marula oil, made from the seed kernel, is one of Africa’s greatest skin care oils. It is rich in antioxidants and oleic acid.
* Can be used to make Ethanol fuel for transportation.
* The bark is used both as treatment and a prophylaxis for malaria. The bark of the male or female tree is also used in regulating the sex of an unborn child. Gums exudates from the stem are mixed with water and soot to make ink by certain tribes in the region.
* The bark also yields a red-brown dye used in colouring traditional craft ware. The leaves are chewed upon to help indigestion and to treat heartburn.
* The fruit infusion is used to bathe tick-infested livestock. The fruit is regarded as a potent insecticide.
* The marula fruit is also eaten by various animals in Southern Africa. In the movie Animals are Beautiful People by Jamie Uys, released in 1974, some scenes were shown where elephants, warthogs and monkeys got drunk from eating fermented marula fruit. Later research showed that these scenes were improbable and, in all probability, staged. Elephants would need a huge amount of fermented marulas to have any effect on them, and other animals prefer the ripe fruit. The amount of water drunk by elephants each day would also dilute the effect of the fruit to such an extent that they would not be affected by it.
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marula"
Category: Trees of Africa
Ron Clibborn-Dyer, China [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, 21 July 2006 at 06:10:27 (UTC)
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Ray,
Surely the sign of a good engineer, not becoming bogged down in detail but knowing someone that will. I was in the Rhokana drawing office when the gas duct happened. We all did a few "foreigners" in those days to help out with NCCM draughtsman's pittances. I was given the official task of detailing the steelwork for the extended portion beyond the pipe gantries and the road. A Sectional Engineer, one of the Jim's, I cannot remember which one (there were three then Batty, Edwards and the other nice one) asked me if I'd like to do the grp detailing as well "out of hours" for Proderite. Being poor I accepted, was introduced to Martin, the client, and eventually more than happy with the fees received.
Jane & I lost touch with the Clothiers soon after they left Kitwe.
Ray, I have just re-read your profile. Nice about you and Hilry, the stuff that good love stories are made of. I was first introduced to her on a field walkabout around the Mindola North Extension Vent Shaft , at the time when we were looking at deepening it and re-opening the hoisting facilities.
Cheers
Robin Hales, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, 21 July 2006 at 06:55:03 (UTC)
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To reiterate what Tina said. The Alt GNR was started when the GNR was off air for a long time and it was a way to keep in touch. It was NOT started as a platform for Glen Drake or anyone else who wants to knock the GNR. The same rules apply on the Alt GNR as the GNR. Anyone can join if they feel like it, but, like the GNR, if anyone oversteps the mark the same thing will happen as has happened on the GNR. For the record, I know Paudie and Sue - I have met them and they are friends of mine.
Fiona Gayther, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, 21 July 2006 at 07:57:39 (UTC)
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Doug
And to think most of us survived through all that, tough times hey?
Have a great weekend.
Nicky Kontou, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, 21 July 2006 at 09:41:17 (UTC)
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No problem, Gwyn. Your post alerted me to a point I wanted to make.
Tina
Tina Magee, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, 21 July 2006 at 13:45:16 (UTC)
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Hi
Other than the creamy, silky smooth, difficult to stop drinking Amarula liqueur there is another fresh Marula fruit juice produced by Liquifruit on the market that is non-alcoholic. It obviously has other fruit juice additives to enhance the flavour, as if that is necessary.
You guys should try the nuts that are found in the core of the fruit. Small but very nice.
Tony Petzer, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, 21 July 2006 at 14:52:08 (UTC)
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Nicky
Tough times indeed!
Patrick
Great to see you posting! Keep it up. I often write tongue in cheek, and some times foot in mouth, so always take my postings with a pinch of salt and a shovel of pepper. I was also going to have a tilt at some of the poor whites from Emmasdale and Teagles Plots but some of their descendants may still be around to physically reprimand me.
Then there was a tilt at the thieving and unhygienic servants that I also decided to omit. Remember my posting about my cook who used his toes as a toast rack while sitting and toasting in front of my wood stove.
As for the Colonel Blimps you will recall that there was never much love lost between the Colonial Civil Service and the settlers who were jealously regarded by her Majesty’s finest as an overpaid uncultured rabble. I personally more than doubled my income by moving from Government employment (Agriculture) to the mines.
Patrick, why don’t you round up your Dad and take him for a visit to Lusaka. I know he is old but I am sure he would be received like royalty.
For those who don’t know Patrick’s Dad is Richard Sampson, once upon a time Mayor of Lusaka, who contributed greatly to the development of that city. Now there’s a good man to clone. Lusaka certainly could benefit from another Richard Sampson. His autobiography ‘With sword and chain,’ is a recommended read.
Ron
Thanks for all the info about Marulas. No one could accuse you of brevity. I will try and get my hands on some Marula seed for you. The trees only fruit towards Xmas so it won’t be soon. I think after all your info about Swaziland my position as the self appointed Swazi Ambassador to the GNR is under threat! :-)
Bryan
I think Tony has answered your question about a commercial non-alcoholic Marula drink. Umganu is just a fruit juice on the first day that gets increasingly alcoholic as the days pass. Patience is a virtue.
Good luck on your trip to the Northern Province in December. Don’t forget the mozzie repellants and nets. If you pass near Matumbu, north of Shiwa Ngandu, call in on my mulamu Chief Cheswa otherwise known as Fred Rumsey.
Gwynn – you posted:
"But men being men the Saxons screwed the local Briton slaves and so the Briton genes diluted."
As the old poem goes, “Meat is meat and a man must eat!” :-)
I once had an Anglo-Saxon girlfriend who used to frustrate me with, “Once a King, always a king, once a knight, is enough.” Maybe I should have looked for an Ancient Brit!
Cheers - Doug
Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, 21 July 2006 at 17:46:44 (UTC)
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The Zimbabwean government has barred an Irish non-governmental organization, Goal Zimbabwe, from distributing food to schools in Hurungwe district.
Authorities in Zimbabwe's second largest city of Bulawayo have suspended all emergency rescue services including the ambulance and fire services because there is no fuel. Nyathi said: "The situation is critical and none of our ambulances are on the road at the moment. We have halted attending to burst sewer pipes and collecting refuse and we have also stopped fixing broken down traffic lights because we do not have the fuel to move from one place to the other." In other words they are in the shite!
Uncle Sam Nujoma of Namibia has decided to develop nukes so Adios Africa just now!
Foreign investment in Zambian bonds surged 56% to 840 billion Kwacha (R1.7 billion or US$245 million) in the 5 months to May after most of the country’s debt was cancelled, the International Monetary Fund said yesterday.
Thousands of billionaires and millionaires were destroyed in Mozambique recently when the government knocked the last 3 zeros off its currency. Zambia should do the same.
Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, 21 July 2006 at 17:48:22 (UTC)
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Ayub
I think it was you who asked where were the so-called civilized nations, to stop the disgusting slaughter of innocents, in the strife between Israel and Lebanon. Probably they are in the same place that they were in when Hezbollah was blowing up Israeli civilians, or when Mugabe’s 5th brigade was genociding the Matabeles. Where ever, they are not going to help.
As God’s ‘chosen people’ and the ‘followers of the only true God,’ all of them the semitic children of Abraham, slaughter one another, I would ask, where is their God? Probably in the same place he was when the Jews were being herded into the Nazi gas chambers or the Arabs were being enslaved by the Ottoman Turks.
How long are people going to continue slaughtering one another over primitive superstitions? When will logic rule? Reason can only prevail when human minds are purged of religion.
What final solution would you offer for the regions problem? If you deny the Jews their ‘promised land’ you will have to let them have Saudi Arabia which was their original home before they went to work for Pharaoh & company.
Leon Uris’s book “The Haj” is interesting reading on the history of the problem and the bad treatment of the Palestinian refugees by their Arab brothers. Rather than being helped to resettle they were crowded into refugee camps so that they could be used as a political card in the Arab arguments with Israel.
I think the only fair solution is to go back to the original UN plan that divided the country into Israel and Palestine and left Jerusalem as an international holy city. The Arab rejected this and declared war on Israel and the Palestinians as a result have suffered ever since.
Cheers - Doug
Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, 21 July 2006 at 18:05:34 (UTC)
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This appeared on our local news today, we appear to have gone upmarket from Ron's goats!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/5197042.stm
Hope the link is workable. Bill Miles
William Miles, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, 21 July 2006 at 20:43:58 (UTC)
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Doug: Couldn't agree with you more. ALL religions tend to be exclusionary; my God's bigger than your God etc. You mentioned the (Dis) United Nations. This is probably the most farcical institution devised by man. A bunch of so-called diplomats enjoying a tax-free existence, or to snitch from Tom Lehrer, like a Gilbert & Sullivan overture, full of words and music and signifying nothing. I have yet to see any good come out of this circus, from Korea to the Congo and up to the present time. Syria (another good-ol'-boy Islamic Nation) has funded Hamaas since day one, otherwise where in hell would all the arms and ammo come from? They (Syria) occupied Lebanon for many years and not a cheep from the U.N. A probable solution would be to disband the U.N. (it might come quicker than we think - remember the League of Nations?) and let the devil take the hindmost. You wanna mess with me? I'm gonna mess with you. "Nation shall speak peace unto Nation" ? And so it goes.
Ken Fernie, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, 21 July 2006 at 20:54:00 (UTC)
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Peter
Missed the posting on the passing of the Hooters chain founder. No, no tragedy. He lived a full and happy life, was a boon to mankind, left a lasting legacy. May you enjoy that legacy for many a year.
The tragedy is this: no one is going to open an establishment with the ladies in mind. You open something called "Bootie" employing attractive young men in shorts and the ladies will be fighting the gay clientele to elbow their way in at the door. The problem in this is that gays already have bars and establishments and I'm happy that they do. We ladies, needing a place to relax and enjoy a chain restaurant with some of the finer things in life around us, are left with the short end of the stick, without the whole package, so to speak. Straight up true, blue!
Tina Magee, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, 21 July 2006 at 20:54:08 (UTC)
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Maxie:
I was sad to hear of the passing of Gus. He brought so much to the sport of softball in Zambia and was a great guy. Thank you for letting us know.
Linda Hayes, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Friday, 21 July 2006 at 23:47:22 (UTC)
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Calling all residents in Zambia, what could/would €250,000 buy in terms of small farm, room for horses?
I had my house valued today for insurance purposes, and I let myself fantasize about selling up, settling debts, then fleeing these grey and grim shores, and living somewhere hot and humid. Still seeking Eldorado.
The "hot" subject in Ireland has been the weather. We had 3 WHOLE days of sunshine, and temps in the low thirties. Wherever I went people were moaning that it was too hot. For me, heaven is getting into a roasting car, the steering wheel too hot to touch, backs of thighs sticking to seat, having to shower two or three times a day, I just love hot, sticky , humid weather!!
Missing Glen - he bought a type of ascerbic wit to the GNR, and I do miss him, - I think that sometimes he should have paused before posting, - just miss him.
Ayub - we have a group of young cricketers from Bradford visiting our Youth Group, next October, - the subject matter of the youth exchange will be how multi ethnic and multi faith communities can be reconciled to a certain degree through sport. I will let you know how it goes.
I have achieved two feats this week, one by being turned down by NUI Galway, (university) to do a masters in Youth and Family studies, and the other was by being sacked by my repulsive boss. I freelance alot, and although we have no formal contract, she stormed into my house and sacked me, as she heard that I had obtained funding for a local community development group. I had just got back from seeing The Who, (alongside 80,000 other people), and was still on a high, and felt quite relieved to be away from her clutches.
Saw an article on luxury hideaways, and noted that there is a stunning new development in Luangwa - prices quoted were £2995 pp per week, anyone know who built it?
Ciao bye,
Megsx
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Nicky : I meant " as well as", "also", etc regarding posting on "girlie-blouse" matters and serious debate, neither to the exclusion of the other, each to his/her own deliberations, running parallel so to speak, in harmony, each to his/her own freedom of spoke!. If we were able to do so and conducted the posts on such lines it would mean cross- border incidents would be less likely to occur! Not apartheid by any means, just that everyone should know when they put their heads up to fire a round, should know, exactly, where the target is! This would eliminate the practise of running to the teacher in tears! Not rocket science, schoolkid common sense! Lets get real!
The Sun sells more copies and owes its existance to lurid, sensational murders, rapes, bodily-harm assaults, sexual depradations, etc etc and cannot be considered as an easy option for" the good life, I agree with Murdoch, no matter what he says, on easy street" which requires no thought on behalf of its readers, as opposed to the Scotsman which would rather seek to discover the malise which we both know infests our society today.
Ayub : Indeed the two BB's who infest Western politics at present and are at the root of the problem with their support regarding the murder of the women and children in Beruit, as we speak, have lost sight of the ball, or have they? They are refusing to go back to the basics of the problems in the Middle East in their support of a country which should never have been there in the first place!
Anyone with a gram of common sense and the ability to read history would realise the implications regarding the Palestine injustice and the monetary reason why the BB's persue their course to this present day!
There is even very little point in noting that two years ago we both came to the exact conclusion, on this site, despite counter opinions at the time, regarding the outcome of the secular differences which must follow the non-sensical persuit of oil reserves invasion by the same pair of lunatics in Iraq.
The spin they, ( BB's) created regarding terrorism being confronted etc etc in Iraq, a total nonsense in fact, is still being reitered by some recently on this site regarding the latest issue, who should know better before entering into this debate, by simply rehashing obviously, outdated, untrue prop regarding the region in general by the BB camp!
Colin Munro, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, 22 July 2006 at 02:12:32 (UTC)
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Is this what you were referring to Bill ?
BBC News 21st July 2006
CI-TECH
A Burmese python has had surgery after swallowing an entire electric blanket along with the electrical cord and control box.
The python's owner thought that the blanket may have been tangled up with the snake's rabbit dinner.
A Good way to have your rabbit pre-'eated don't you think !!!
______________________________________________
This was our latest out here.
Sunday July 9 2006
South China Morning Post
Dog-lover grapples giant python in bid to save pet
Simon Parry
Warning sign will be erected near Sai Kung park barbecue site where 41/2-metre snake killed a 22kg husky
Walkers are being warned to beware of a Burmese python that squeezed the life out of a large dog in front of its horrified owner near a popular family walk and barbecue area.
Esther Leenders watched as her 22kg husky, Paro, was crushed to death by the 41/2-metre snake after it apparently ambushed the dog on a footpath near the entrance to Sai Kung Country Park.
Mrs Leenders wrestled in vain with the python to try to save Paro, only for the snake to round on her after killing the dog before eventually slithering off into the bushes.
Officials described the case as extremely rare but said they would put up a warning sign in the area, which is popular with weekend walkers and families on barbecue outings.
Mrs Leenders, 32, a former kindergarten teacher, was walking her six dogs along a footpath 20 minutes from the road at Pak Tam Chung last Saturday afternoon when the python struck.
Two of her dogs were on leads and the other four, including 21/2-year-old Paro, were roaming free along the path, which winds up a hillside behind the barbecue site and popular family walk.
Mrs Leenders, a keen walker who has lived in Hong Kong for five years, said: 'I was a little way behind because I had found a big lizard on the path and I was trying to move it away before the dogs on the lead could chase it. That held me up a little.
'When I came upon the scene, the python was already completely curled around Paro, who seemed to be semi-conscious. I felt like I was watching a National Geographic documentary, but it was my dog.
'I couldn't even see where the python's head and tail were but I tried to pull it off. I kicked it, I screamed at it and pulled at it, but there was absolutely no movement.
'As I stood back and watched, it slowly squeezed the air out of him. Every time he breathed out, it constricted so that he couldn't breathe in any more. My feeling was that it was about five minutes before the snake finally decided the dog was dead.'
Mrs Leenders continued to try to pull the snake off. 'Eventually, it uncurled its head and only then could I see that it had been using it to hold onto the dog's snout and head. Then the snake started coming towards me.
'We had eye contact and I felt very vulnerable. It moved towards me very slowly. It had no fear and you could see it had no natural predator. Then when it was about two metres from me, it turned and went off into the bushes.'
Asked why she did not run, Mrs Leenders said: 'At that time I was still concerned about the dog. I thought maybe I could still save it. It was only when the python had gone away into the bushes that I felt safe to approach Paro.'
Unable to use her mobile phone because there was no reception, Mrs Leenders was eventually helped by a group of hikers, who alerted police.
Mrs Leenders believes walkers, particularly families with young children, need to be aware of the python's presence. 'I don't want the snake to be killed but I do think there should be some awareness of it,' she said.
'Paro was not a small dog. He was the size of a small child and very light on his feet, and I felt the snake could easily have taken on me if it had wanted to. The thought that it may have been lying in wait is terrifying.
'I am traumatised by what happened. I walk a lot and I am always aware of certain risks and dangers. I have been chased by a wild boar and I've come across a lot of snakes, like cobras, but I never in my wildest imagination thought I would lose a dog in this way.'
A spokesman for the Agriculture, Fisheries and Conservation Department said a warning notice would be put up in the area to alert people to the presence of the python.
'Cases of big dogs being attacked are rare,' he said. 'When they spot a snake, hikers should keep calm and still, and let the snake sneak away. In this isolated case, we will closely monitor any further new development.
'As a precautionary measure, we are going to put up a sign in the vicinity to alert visitors.'
Last Thursday, police were called to remove a venomous pit viper, measuring about a metre long, which was found in a playground at a kindergarten less than a kilometre away from where the python killed Mrs Leenders' dog.
Hong Kong Country Parks Authority
WARNING
Due to the rising frequency of Pythons swallowing pet dogs in the Sai Kung Country Park members of the public are advised to take extra precautions when walking their dogs in Country Parks.
Walkers are advised to wear heavy boots and stamp their feet frequently and also make their dogs wear little noisy bells on their collars in order to give advance warning to any pythons that might be nearby so that they are not taken by surprise.
Walkers are also advised to carry a container of pepper mixed with sulphur powder in case of an encounter with a python.
Walkers should be on the lookout for fresh python activity, and be able to tell the difference between young python droppings and adult python droppings.
Young python poo contains the bones and fur of small animals.
Adult python poo has bells in it, is yellow and smells of pepper.
ENJOY THE COUNTRY PARKS
Ron Clibborn-Dyer, China [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, 22 July 2006 at 02:35:03 (UTC)
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Hi Meg
In response to your comment on farming in Zambia, this is an extraction of a proposal I sent to the Malawian Government. It seems to reflect that your feelings are similiar to mine. Don't you think? I am tired of the greed and avarice of the modern world and would like to return to basics.
Proposed farming operations
If approval were forthcoming from your Government my intention would be to establish a multi-agricultural operation with its primary production being fruit, namely: Mangoes and Avocado pears, however, this would be my long-term objective. In order to generate short-term sustainable income I would produce vegetables, namely: Chilies, Ginger and Garlic. I would favour an area of arable land that has the banks of Lake Malawi as a frontage.
My wife’s and my families have been in Africa for approximately four hundred years and it saddens us to see the way Africa and Africans are treated and abused by foreigners and greedy people. In addition, I would like to mention that my grandmother and step-grandfather are buried in Blantyre and I had a sister stay there for approximately four years. I say this because it is going to explain why and what my further intentions would be if approval would be forthcoming. Once I have the operation running successfully, it would be my intention to form a Closed Corporation where the farm would be its sole asset. I would then invite disadvantaged, homeless Malawians to become equal members in the CC. This would give them a share in the farm and an opportunity to create a Kibbutz type operation. The obvious benefits for all the participants would be work, accommodation, self-sustaining and the opportunity to own assets.
Tony Petzer, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, 22 July 2006 at 10:35:15 (UTC)
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Tony
I applaud your altruistic and utopian intentions, but it is a safe bet that: -
1. You will not get a reply.
2. If you get a reply it may just inform you that Malawi land is for Malawi citizens. They are busy trying to evict various existing agricultural estate owners to return the land to the people (meaning the President’s pals). There is plenty of greed and avarice there.
It is much easier to get land in Zambia, even on the shores of Lake Kariba and after investing considerable sums you might even get an investor’s residence permit. Heather could give good advise on that.
It saddens me to see the way Africa and Africans are treated and abused by greedy and corrupt Africans.
Cheers - Doug
Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, 22 July 2006 at 14:10:49 (UTC)
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Dear friends:
I have just been notified by someone close to me in South Africa that they have been receiving emails from "me" filled with profanity towards them. Of course I did not send them. When that person sent the same profanity back 10 times to "me" they got a response from someone called Lorenczuk. I guess it must be a new nasty going around.
I recently changed my email address because I was being flooded with spam out of the blue, so I don't know if this has happened to anyone else. Please rest assured, I would not do that, so if you are getting anything nasty from me, it is not me. Can you let me know if this happens to you too, please? My new email address has been updated in my profile here, but I still have both email addresses open.
All I can say to Lorenczuk is **%??!!$##@ ... grin.
Linda Hayes, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Saturday, 22 July 2006 at 14:10:57 (UTC)
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Tony - what a wonderful idea, and, due to the current climate in some African nations, imagine building all of that up, and having it taken away from you, in a cynical manner fueled by some jackasses' political ambition. As I toil in my polytunnel under Ireland's leaden skies, I too dream of my plot somewhere warm, (usually Southern Africa), where I would grow basic foodstuffs, and medicinal herbs. Eventually, with imput and training, locals could form a co-operative to develop and market the products. Even with some really negative press in Britain and Ireland, homeopathic and "natural" products are still in great demand. I really dont need much to be content - I would just love to live in a place where I could live my dream whilst giving something back. (I have a lovely home here, 3 acres leading down to a little river, mountains to the South, Ocean to the NorthWest, its just the cost of living, the materialism, and , the ****ing weather, aggghhhh).
Some of the people who I have had to rub shoulders with whilst applying for grants in the voluntary/community sector have been so blatent about their "cuts", and skimming public money, I have felt tainted by having to breathe the same air as them.
Best of luck with your ideas Tony, we might just sell up here and come and join you in your endeavours if you find the right place............(I can imagine poor Tony blanching in horror at the thought of Meg, Ghengis and the clan descending on him!)
Go well everyone,
ciao,
Megsx
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Came across a nice T-shirt message on the internet yesterday: God hates religions.
Tina Magee, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, 23 July 2006 at 01:27:47 (UTC)
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Dear Doug
Glad to see you back again. John Glen? I am sure I knew him at school. A handsome dark haired boy who once had a physical fight with one of the men teachers at Frederick Knapp. He was about 17 at the time and everyone thought how brave he was. Was that him? Sorry to hear of his death. A quotation I use often, “No man is an island and each man’s death diminishes me. And therefore do not send to ask for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee.” John Donne I think.
Here are two poems to address your hunting penchant. The first one was written by me. The other one I found on the Net. I do not have the author’s name but I found it again on another site this time with the name of the author which you may find if you are interested.
I do not want to and will not enter into some endless debate on the subject of hunting. As a human being I am faced with a Gordian Knot and I just wanted to state my personal opinion. For me I couldn’t bear the thought of a day I would choose to go out with the express purpose of extinguishing the Quick to become the Dead.
By the way in the years 78/79 in Zambia it was considered illegal to have in your possession even one set of mounted horns or head and those were highly volatile years and one wouldn’t want to mess with the police or army for any reason at all.
Death in Africa
Early 1996
With a wistful look in his eyes of glass
He peered sightless over the African plain
Never more would he gaze on those fields of grass
This magnificent antelope long ago slain.
And not far in the distance if he could see
Were other antelopes strong and alert
Beautiful creatures just like he
Without glass eyes frozen in permanent hurt.
I gazed a long while at his noble head
Mounted on wood and hung on a hook
The pain in those eyes turned my heart to lead
I turned away I could no longer look.
Who had done this terrible deed?
A man no doubt with a powerful gun
Had he posed over the body in triumphant glee
For a photograph to show his son.
Tis said nature’s red in tooth and claw
But I say humankind is just the same
No, not the same but much much more.
Yet piously we kneel in prayer
Asking God to give us gain
And we don’t think it is unfair
When we cause our fellow creatures pain.
This antelope I saw at a lodge at Kasaba Bay, Zambia circa 1973
A Hunter's Prayer
A hunter shot at a flock of geese that flew within his reach.
Two were stopped in their rapid flight and fell on the sandy beach.
The male bird lay at the water's edge and just before he died,
He faintly called to his wounded mate and she dragged herself to his side.
She bent her head and crooned to him in a way distressed and wild,
Caressing her one and only mate as a mother would a child.
Then covering him with her broken wing and gasping with failing breath,
She laid her head against his breast, a feeble honk . . .then death.
This story is true, though crudely told. I was the man in this case.
I stood knee-deep in snow and cold, and the hot tears burned my face.
I buried the birds in the sand where they lay, wrapped in my hunting coat.
And I threw my gun and belt in the bay, when I crossed in the open boat.
Hunters will call me a right poor sport and scoff at the thing I did,
But that day something broke in my heart, and shoot again?
God forbid.
Author Unknown
As for the issue of “Girl’s Blouse” subjects. Hmmm. All us girls at least know the word blouse is completely passé. Well “serious debate” on any subject, more specifically Africa, will not change things one iota. Words need to be put into action otherwise it seems quite pointless except to show who knows more about what. So I commend Tony for his attempt and others for what they are doing in their own ways.
Until we beg to differ once more a smile and
Regards
Evelyn
Evelyn Carra, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, 23 July 2006 at 03:54:48 (UTC)
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Just returned from a weeks visit to Lusaka, my first in over 7 years . Went over for my sister-in-laws funeral. She passed away in Jwaneng, Botswana and my brother had an unbelievable time trying to get her body back to Zambia for burial. You almost forget the unending, mind sapping beauracracy that still exists in some African countries. At the very last hurdle, Lusaka City Council workers where on strike and no amount of arm bending, bribing etc could result in a burial permit being issued. Fortunately, because she died outside of Zambia, we where later informed that the issue of burial permits could be handled later.
Johannesburg.
I flew over from Perth on South African Airways and despite negative reports on the state of the national airline, the flight was on time and the service from cabin crew excellent. Joburg Airport was very different. Hostile Immigration and Security officers ( who insisted in talking to me in their native tongue), no baggage trolleys available in arrivals, and a general no care attitude from staff. I have used this airport (even in the bad old days of Apartheid) on numerous trips from the UK, Zambia and Zimbabwe and had always found the staff there efficient, courteous etc. Could not help noticing the complexion of the entire airport has changed, few white/brown faces in a sea of black faces. This I was reliably informed is the result of the Affirmative Action Program and Black empowerment. “Ah well can’t stop progress, can we.?” Could not help noticing that in 4 years time the World Cup Soccer Tournament will be held in SA and from that parlous state of affairs at Joburg Airport a lot of changes will be needed to make the tournament a success. How this airport will handle the millions of visitors expected is yet to be seen. Still I wish them all the best for 2010.
On a brighter note I flew to Lusaka on Kalula.Com.( Zambian Airlines). The process of booking a flight etc on this Airline was world class. This airline brings a refreshing change to the way airlines in Africa work and I found the experience of booking and paying for the flight to Lusaka and the return trip to Joburg a very pleasant experience.
Lusaka
On arrival at Lusaka International Airport, immigration, baggage collection, customs formalities etc was a breeze compared to Joburg. Immigration, officials still found time to chat and extend a warm welcome. I am quite fluent in Nyanja and got in some much needed practice at the airport much to the delight of the Immigration staff there. Lusaka Airport still remains one of my favorite destinations in Africa, because of the warm welcome I have continued to receive there over many years of air travel. I must say that I was quite impressed with the development that has gone on since my last visit. The road from the Airport turnoff to town has certainly improved (courtesy of Japanese Aid) and the introduction of roundabouts have certainly improved traffic flow on the Great East Road.
Like you, Doug, I found driving in Lusaka a nightmarish experience. You not only have to contend with bad driving but pedestrians, vendors, cyclist etc. After a few nerve wracking attempts, I was soon into the flow of things albeit breaking a few road rules in the process. Passed a speed camera after Manda Hill but did not get zapped. Stories abound of hapless motorists ( especially South African white motorists) being zapped by over zealous traffic cops and on the spot fines issued with or without out proof of the speed that one was supposedly doing. Apparently the cameras are not reset after the first over speeding event is recorded and this speed is used as the basis for subsequent speeding fines.
Bought some wonderful Zambian batiks at Arcades Sunday market. Would have loved to take back some of the magnificent wood carvings and baskets on display but the authorities in Oz would not have permitted them in. Got to see a few relatives & old acquaintances at and after the funeral. It was rather saddening to note how many have passed away or have left Zambia since my last visit there. My rich pals in Lusaka have got richer over the years and on the whole the poor appear poorer than ever. It appears to be the accepted status quo in Lusaka. Still I could not get my head around the appalling poverty that still exists there. On a brighter note I met a group of young Americans from Texas who had given up their school vacation time to work with orphans and vulnerable children in Lusaka. It was good to see that there are people around who still care for the poor and disadvantaged.
The return trip home via Joburg was uneventful this time except for the extremely slow check in for the flight to Perth. Still wonder how they will manage the flow of visitors to the 2010 World Cup.
Humphrey Thornicroft, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, 23 July 2006 at 04:01:34 (UTC)
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So Sad...I cried.
Fay, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, 23 July 2006 at 04:34:37 (UTC)
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A most interesting and apparently balanced view of your trip.
Sincere condolences on your sad reason for returning to Zambia... but thank you for writing about it and sharing it with all of us on the GNR.
Sue Coughlan, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, 23 July 2006 at 04:42:45 (UTC)
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Hi Doug and Evelyn
I missed the posting on John Glen's death. When was it and how? I would like to extend my condolences to the family as they lived next door to us at Murundu.
Have fun
Gwyn
Gwyneth Thomas, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, 23 July 2006 at 04:58:47 (UTC)
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Meg Rybicki,
I see that you enjoy good music and I thought you might like to hear this, go to:
http://www.righteousbabe.com/ani/words.asp
and look for: "so much shouting, so much laughter", find "self-evident" then right click on the part where it says: "MP3" and save to your HDD, I am sure you will want to keep it. If you left click it will just play in QuickTime. Reasonable size download so be patient, it will be worth it.
Regards
Robert Worrill, New Zealand [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, 23 July 2006 at 04:59:05 (UTC)
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Hi All
This had me laughing as they are the ones who are always bitching in this town of Jozi about being discriminated against. Thi sthe article from Reuters.
By Jason Szep
PROVINCETOWN, Massachusetts (Reuters) - Provincetown, New England's summer gay capital, is facing a rise in harassment and discrimination. But this time it's straight people who say they are being ridiculed as "breeders" and "baby makers."
Less than a decade after a successful campaign to end violent paroxysms of "gay bashing" in the beach town at the tip of Cape Cod in Massachusetts, police and town officials report a resurgence in tension between gays and straight people.
Police Chief Ted Meyer said straight people complained of being called "breeders" over the July Fourth holiday weekend, and that in one serious incident a man was charged with assaulting a woman who signed a petition to ban same-sex marriage in Massachusetts, the only state where it is legal.
Equally troubling, he said, Jamaican workers in Provincetown say they have been the target of racial slurs.
"It's been a series of issues," Meyer said.
The flare-ups in a town that overflows in summer with a colorful mix of gay couples often openly holding hands or kissing, cross-dressers and flocks of curious tourists coincide with a planned vote this year in the state Legislature on an amendment to ban gay marriage -- a measure that has rallied activists on both sides of the issue.
Gay-marriage advocates have set up a Web site -- www.knowthyneighbor.org -- that publishes the names of people who have signed the petition, including at least two locals in Provincetown who say they have been singled out and verbally abused by gays since their names appeared on the Web site.
Town officials said the town is struggling to strike a balance between protecting the right to freedom of expression for petition signers, and ensuring its gay majority contain their anger at what many see as an assault on their hard-won right to marriage.
Police would not classify the slurs and name-calling as "hate crimes." But a town meeting was called last Friday to discuss whether social attitudes were changing in the gay resort village with a population of 3,431 that swells to 60,000 in summer and includes a large number of Jamaicans.
"We have business that we haven't talked about as a family," Town Manager Keith Bergman said. "The impact of the same sex marriage petition is high on that list."
Some gays expressed shock at being accused of discrimination after years of suffering harassment.
"There are still a lot of straight people who treat gays badly," said Steve Bowersock, 35, an artist who owns the Bowersock Gallery on the town's main Commercial Street.
Bowersock, who was once married to a woman, said he moved to Provincetown in 2004 with his partner because it gives gays a political voice. He admits he sometimes discriminates against straight people he finds offensive
"If there's a straight couple and I hear them in the background going 'oh fags', I'm like 'hello, where the hell do you think you are?' So in turn I get mad," he said.
"If I see someone nervous like a big butch guy, and you can just tell he's a redneck, I'll grab my partner and I'll kiss him. It's not being mean, but 'hello you're in our town'."
The Rev. Henry J. Dahl, pastor at St. Peter's Church, said several of his parishioners had complained to him of being singled out and verbally abused after signing the petition.
"I don't think it's totally unexpected that there would be some reaction to people who signed the petition," he said. "Let's just hope we can have civil discourse."
Oh so funny.
Have fun
Gwyn
Gwyneth Thomas, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, 23 July 2006 at 05:01:51 (UTC)
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Thanks for your posting regarding your visit to Lusaka, .....it is good to see anothers point of view..
...my condolences to you and your family regarding the sad passing of your sister in law
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Hi Humphrey
My condolences on your loss.
Your comment on Jo'burg Airport should be sent to a local TV station - MNet who have a programme called Carte Blanche which exposes all sorts of wonderful things such as dodgy second hand cars, violence in schools and Mall Heists.
I have to fly to Oz soon and I am really not looking forward with dealing with Jo'burg International Airport or as it will soon be called Oliver Tambo International Airport.
The last time I was there I had to pick up a VIP in a limo and it was a nightmaere just to park the monster never mind get out of the complex. The attituted of the staff is "Tell someone who cares" and as you say I wonder if anything will improve before 2010. I seriously doubt it.
Another thing I have opted for is to fly Emirates rather than SAA as they are cheaper and the service is a lot better. I tried phoning SAA to find out about airtickets but was put on hold for ten minutes and then I just put the phone down without talking to anyone. I was able to book on line with Emirates and pay for my ticket the next day and the confirmation e-mail arrived as soon as I had phoned and confirmed payment. The local staff at Emirates are friendly, efficient and courteous. SAA is anything but and do not deserve to be in business.
As a parastatal and therefore a government body one should be able to read their Finanical Statements but getting copies of these are notoriously difficult.
An interesting comment is found at:
http://www.businessday.co.za/articles/article.aspx?ID=BD4A233926
Have fun
Gwyn
Gwyneth Thomas, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, 23 July 2006 at 09:22:21 (UTC)
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Hi All
I was looking at the above's biography and found that he was born in Mufulira in 1948. Some quite famous people came from my home town. I am quit surprised as it is really not well known.
Mutt Lange, Shania Twain's husband was also born there as was his ex-wife Stevie Vann.
Have fun
Gwyn
Gwyneth Thomas, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, 23 July 2006 at 11:48:55 (UTC)
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My son and I were in the village for almost a month and a half. We arrived in Lusaka yesterday from Chipata at 11:00 hours by probably the fastest bus on earth. We left Chipata at 4:30 am and arrived here at 10:15 am. We had a great time. We miss our hut and the moon light, the dogs howling at night, some hyenas, the sound of vimbuza drums at night, the village soccer games, the loud laughter of women laughing in unison. We will miss the fire at our hut where the men and boys gathered every night. We rode the bike a lot and both of us are dark and well "tanned".
On our way back, we swung through the Luangwa Game Park at The Wld Life Camp and Marula lodge. Coming back we had one of those punishing trips. We left Mfuwe at 18:00 hours in a Canter truck that was jammed with people. It travelled at 20 KM per hour. The unpaved road is insane with jagged stones and corrugated bumps that shake the vehicle vigorously with deafenig noise.
We arrived in Chipata at 12:00 minight. We woke up my niece who boiled some tea for us. She escorted us to the bus station where we boarded the bus at 3:00 am.
My book: "Zambian Traditional Names" is finally printed. I have a copy and it looks and reads fabulous. We will be getting the rest of the printed copies this week. I will then hit ZNBC to publicise it.
Will be in touch.
Mwizenge
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I would love to be wrong on this.....
I think the 2010 World Cup in South Africa will not be remembered for bad officiating or dives made by the players but for the crimes committed against the fans....
I think their will be a LOT of naive torists as well as some savvy ones who will be robbed and even murdered.
Peter Dielissen, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, 23 July 2006 at 15:34:15 (UTC)
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Evelyn
Thanks for the welcome back.
John Glen was handsome and dark haired but I thought he went to school in Mufulira with Bill Hunt and later to Dale College in RSA. Maybe he had to move to Mufulira after thumping the master at Fredrick Knapp. Bill wat se jy?
I don’t know whether it is correct to ascribe human emotions to animals, but I saw a TV program years ago where some experiment showed that the electrical charge in plants alters when you approach them with a lighted match to burn them, or scissors to cut them, so I guess anything is possible.
I believe it is right to harvest animals for their meat, fur, horns, whatever, but the shooting of large numbers of animals just for ‘sport’ seems a bit ridiculous. Haven’t these guys heard of video games?
Gwyn
I will email you about John Glen’s family. Re gays let’s hope that it doesn’t become compulsory.
Tina
I love your story about the T-shirts. You are the sort of believer that I can respect; one with a sense of humor. The Boerjies se, “Ek hou van ‘n man wat ‘n slaan kan slaan, en ‘n slaan kan staan.” For the Taal challenged, “I like a man (woman) who can give as good as he gets.”
Humphrey
Sorry to hear the bad news about your sister-in-law.
We could have almost met in Lusaka. I was there from 9th to the 17th. I must agree with you about Oliver Tambo (bones) airport. It is a monstrosity and getting worse. The 2010 world cup is going to be interesting to say the least. Lusaka airport is much more human sized and user friendly. The Joburg baggage handlers pinched 2 pairs of Francios’s trousers out of our suitcase. In future I am going to use that wrapping service that cocoons the cases in layers of plastic to slow the thieves down. I had all kinds of evil thoughts like putting a hand grenade with the pin extracted in my case to give the varmints a nasty surprise, but the aviation authorities would probably not approve. A snake would probably asphyxiate. Maybe a bottle of brandy with cyanide injected into it? It will not help to report it. One feels like a chicken who keeps on getting the odd feather pulled out. Grrrrrrrrrr!
Most of the ‘unending, mind sapping bureaucracy that still exists in some African countries’ is inherited from the colonial era. While much of this pointless nonsense has been scrapped in Europe it remains unchanged in Africa because it gives a good bribery income to various officials and because most African Governments seem to be reluctant to take any decisive action.
Lebanon
The daily kill rate is not even half that of RSA. Maybe the 2010 cup should be relocated there.
Cheers - Doug
Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, 23 July 2006 at 16:21:14 (UTC)
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I seem to be getting a lot of emails with no senders name and no subject. I just delete them. Has anyone any idea what these can be?
Cheers - Doug
Doug Grewar, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, 23 July 2006 at 17:00:46 (UTC)
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Evelyn, Doug, so many others, thanks for your interesting postings and comments. Great post on returning to Zambia. Here is some Sunday humour.
In his book, "Sled Driver", SR-71 Blackbird pilot Brian Shul writes:
"I'll always remember a certain radio exchange that occurred one day as
Walt (my back-seater) and I were screaming across Southern California 13 miles high. We were monitoring various radio transmissions from other aircraft as we entered Los Angeles airspace. Though they don't really control us, they monitor our movement across their scope.
I heard a Cessna ask for a readout of its ground speed. "90 knots," Center replied. Moments later, a Twin Beech required the same. "120 knots," Center answered.
We weren't the only ones proud of our ground speed that day as almost instantly an F-18 smugly transmitted, "Ah, Center, Dusty 52 requests ground speed readout." There was a slight pause, then the response, "525 knots on the ground, Dusty."
Another Silent pause.
As I was thinking to myself how ripe a situation this was, I heard a familiar click of a radio transmission coming from my back-seater. It was at that precise moment I realized Walt and I had become a real crew, for we were both thinking in unison.
"Center, Aspen 20, you got a ground speed readout for us?"
There was a longer than normal pause.... "Aspen, I show 1,742 knots" (That's about 2004.658 mph for those who don't know)
No further inquiries were heard on that frequency.
Tina Magee, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, 23 July 2006 at 17:28:27 (UTC)
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John & David Glen attended Mufulira School until standard 4& 5 respectively, after which they were dispatched to Kingswood College in South Africa.
I don't recall that John was ever at Fredrick Knapp.
After finishing school John started a diesel vehicle repair business based at Murundu.
Later he made a huge amount of money maintaining the Hell Run highway.
A very industrious individual.
Doug Grewar has many stories to tell about John, his Murundu Mate.
Over to you Grewsome!
Bill Hunt, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, 23 July 2006 at 18:12:57 (UTC)
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Evelyn
Thank you for the nice poems. I printed them out and read them together with the family. They were quite moving. It’s so sad that we, in our efforts to survive, have to make something else pay the price.
Linda
About sneaking out at night; I’ve thought a little bit about that. It was easy sneaking out – the problem always was getting in again!
Have a nice Sunday!
Theo
Theodore Dundee, Sweden [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, 23 July 2006 at 18:27:46 (UTC)
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Distracted operators of Fixed Wing Flying Machines
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Does anyone recall the name of the ex- Battle of Britain fighter pilot who was a prominent member of the Mufulira flying club.
Anyway, quite a few years later in South Africa, he secured a contract to fly a bevy of scrumptious, young, Israeli fashion
models from Joburg to Phalaborwa.
These lovelies were required to strut their stuff at an upmarket fashion show that evening at the local 3 star hotel.
Just before touchdown, one of the models pointed out that a cockpit alarm was sounding in the cabin.
The pilot ignored the comment & carried out a perfect one point 'wheels-up' landing.
One can only surmise that his thoughts were on other more interesting subjects!
No one was hurt, but the bent machine had to make its way back to Joburg on the back of a flatbed truck.
Since Eve, the female species have a hellav-a-lot more to answer for!!
Bill Hunt, South Africa [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, 23 July 2006 at 18:45:17 (UTC)
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Maybe someone in Nigeria needs your help moving $10 million out of the country????
Peter Dielissen, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, 23 July 2006 at 19:05:46 (UTC)
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Doug
At your lovely Lusaka Airport my walkman was stolen out of my case and the insurance wouldn't pay.
I actually found Johannesburg airport quite pleasant and a great improvement from the old days.
When we flew back from Jhb on KLM all the cases were wrapped in plastic (clingfilm). We were told it's because the insurance claims on KLM were so high on flights from Jhb. Those guys who wrap the cases are very good at it but who'd have their job?
Fiona Gayther, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, 23 July 2006 at 19:27:55 (UTC)
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The GNR has been through a tough time recently, but I hope has recovered. The same problems will occur again in the future, and many thanks to those who look after the site for keeping it going.
Perhaps we all need to think about what we write. There’s a persistent story that part of the reason for Japanese economic success, until recently, was the absence of Japanese typewriters, and so bosses who wanted to talk to subordinates had no choice but to get out of their chairs and go walking and talking. When word processors and e-mail arrived it was much easier to send messages, and productivity plummeted. I think it’s because the written letter is much more unfriendly than the spoken word. When I talk to people, and I’m remarkably clumsy at it, they can usually tell that I don’t mean to offend them by my voice and other body language. When they read what I’ve written there is none of that, and offence is too easily given and taken. As an example from my present company, one manager noticed that one member of staff was not able to go for lunch on time because other people were over-running. So she wrote a badly worded e-mail and circulated it around the company. Result. Everybody was offended. If she had got off her ass and talked to people they would all have thought she was a kind caring individual, but they now think she’s a cow who doesn’t appreciate what they are doing.
Perhaps before we press the send button more us us should think of the impact of our letters.
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I never check luggage - just have a backpack that fully packed weighs between 13 and 14 pounds.... My wife's backpack is usually a shade lighter than mine.
Our vacations are usually three weeks and our longest was our honeymoon in 1997 - 61 days flying around the world.
We set a record in Amsterdam last year - from getting out of the plane, clearing customs and immigration, to the train ticket office to buy tickets, down to the train station, waiting for five minutes for the Intercity to arrive to our train leaving the station in just 25 minutes!
Peter Dielissen, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Sunday, 23 July 2006 at 20:23:45 (UTC)
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Hi Peter
I agree with your comments on writing memos etc. When I was a rookie salesmen I was given the example of "I didn't say you stole that pen". There are 7 words. If you put the emphasis on each of the words in turn the statement says significantly different things. That means the recipient can read it any of 7 ways whereas I may have meant any of the other 7 meanings - hence 49 opportunities for the wrong message to be transmitted!!
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Robert - thank you for the message about the site, I am waiting for the arrival of broadband to our area, as the speed of my computer is 16.8Kpbs, which is excrutiatingly slow. I boil kettles, stack the dishwasher, go down to the field to top up the pony's water, water my polytunnel, weed a bit, then come back to the computer, and sometimes a site still hasnt loaded. We live in a rural area, but the nearest town of any size is only half an hour away, it has had broadband for two years, aghhhhhh!!!
I wish Pink Floyd would play together again, due to having big brothers, I grew up on a diet of good, eclectic music, everything from Pink Floyd to James Brown, but Floyd is definitely on my "wish list".
My mom has made a wish list, with visiting Zambia on the very top. She will go next year with my middle brother, Anton, and I am envious.
I have always wanted to visit the Gilbert and Ellis Islands - has anyone on the GNR lived/worked/holidayed in that part of the world?
Mwizinge, good to see you back, could you email me details of your book? It strikes me as being a good gift for "Zambians abroad".
Terror struck my heart today as I had to drive my daughter down to Galway, and then return. It is a journey of l64km from my house, and most of it is on the crappiest of roads, the Nl7. This winding single lane road is extremely busy, but has no overtaking lanes, and no verges. The Galway Arts Festival is on, and quite a few revellers were obviously leaving Galway and heading back to Northern Ireland. I was overtaken, (I was stuck behind a bus doing a steady 100 kph) by a guy steering with his FEET. It was on double white lines, and a huge lorry suddenly hove into sight heading straight for foolish man, who promptly steered (still with his feet) for the gap between me and the bus. I stuck my hazard lights on, floored the brake, and prayed. The guy behind me was on his mobile (now punishable by €2000 fine, and 3 points), and braked at the last minute. Lorry thundered by hooting, foot guy, now steering with hands, simply took off again, and disapeared in a miasma of boy racerdom into the blue yonder. I had to stop and have a full strength marlborough to recover!
I HATE driving here, anyone living in Ireland will agree with me I am sure! The young male (and more and more often, female) yobbo drivers here would give the most hardened of Jozi's texi drivers a run for their money!
Ciao
Megsx
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Evelyn: Whats the use off ? In Africa or anywhere else! Sadly I suppose you are quite right if you think about it. Even in our nonsensicaly so called modern civilisation there was " a lack of serious debate" in the so called chambers of such in Stalin's, Hitler's, Pol Pot's, Papa Doc's, the list is endless, especially into Africa from Malan to Idi, Mugs, ad infinitum, too many to quote for no purpose whatsoever, right up to the present era of Blair and Bush, both of whom are also in the same camp. ( as was disclosed recently in the case of Blair, shut up, agree or get out and say goodbye to your bucks and privilages, most as we know, did just that. They have ultimate power to hire and fire, but at least without the final customary renumeration of old with a couple of grams of lead)
I agree you are right but nevertheless there are still some, perhaps silly dreamers, out there who wish to buck this trend, especially the Celts such as myself, who perhaps should know better after have been beaten up so many times in the past, it must be still in the blood, the underdog syndrome kicking in!!
Tina: Sure shot myself in the foot there, better than in the head though, regarding our Druidistical practise of " the dancing in the moonlight of naked young maidens" who should have been safely tucked up in bed!
How incredably astute of you to make this connection to the present malise and clarify this deliberation!
Doug: RSA 5 Leb 1? Rather a callous ( ref from the Latin callosus, thick skinned) regarding your bodycount in the Middle East at the present time! I suspect we are at present on different sides on this issue, which is not a problem!
Only that you are using the deaths of innocent women and children to sustain your (some) arguement in a light heartened manner!
Perhaps I am just getting to old and loosing mine,( that which was once so imperative at the time in the old SR) Kind Regards, as always!
Colin Munro, United Kingdom [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, 24 July 2006 at 00:27:46 (UTC)
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As communications from Chinese Emperors used to say ~
"Tremble & Obey"
All this nonsense whilst the Western Cape Nuclear Power station continues to fail the nation. !!!
From The Mercury (SA), 18 July
Nujoma drops atomic bombshell
Windhoek - Former Namibian head of state and president of the ruling Swapo Party, Sam Nujoma, dropped another bombshell at the weekend when he said the country was ready to make its own atomic bombs in the event of any external threat. Nujoma was quoted by The Namibian newspaper as saying: "We have uranium here (in Namibia) and we train our own scientists and engineers. If they (external forces) create nonsense, we can make our own atomic bombs." Nujoma had been speaking at the inauguration of the northern railway line at Ondangwa on Saturday.
Earlier in the month Nujoma had threatened to send Swapo fighters to defend Zimbabwean President Robert Mugabe if "British imperialists" attacked the country over the land issue. "The British should be careful because they're trying to break down Mugabe's Zimbabwe... If the English imperialists make a mistake today to occupy Zimbabwe, I will instruct Swapo to go fight for the Zimbabweans," Nujoma said. He also took a swipe at those who warned that Namibia would end up like Zimbabwe if it emulated a disorderly land reform programme. "If they don't like it, they can leave, go to Britain," he said.
Ron Clibborn-Dyer, China [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, 24 July 2006 at 00:33:55 (UTC)
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Peter Bromwich,
Thanks very much for your astute observation. It's been said many times (including here) in situations like this, but a couple of personal examples to drive the point home always help.
Craig Hartnett, Canada [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, 24 July 2006 at 00:34:10 (UTC)
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Peter B. writes:
When I talk to people, and I’m remarkably clumsy at it, they can usually tell that I don’t mean to offend them by my voice and other body language. When they read what I’ve written there is none of that, and offence is too easily given and taken.
Too true. Equally, offendees (and the Politbureau for that matter) should react accordingly.
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Hi Mwizenge,
Personally, the GNR fascinates me for it's diversity.
How different was your story of travel in Lusaka to Humphrey's, yet how entertaining and informative were both? Thank you.
And congratulations on the book.
Sue Coughlan, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, 24 July 2006 at 01:30:04 (UTC)
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Chris in Hawaii,
Firstly allow me to congratulate you on the way you have come to moderate your postings to the GNR so as not to offend.
BUT in respect of the Politburo ~ You are begining to sound like a cracked record ~ give us a break ~ not all the pineapples in Hawaii can be as bitter as you seem to be ~ pick a ripe one and simply enjoy life on the GNR for a change !!!
I subscribe to the 99% Rule~ that is ~ 99% of what we convey to each other in any form of communication is almost certain to be misunderstood.
As in the first World War the message from the front ~
"Send Reinforcements, We're going to Advance" ~
reached the HQ in the rear as ~
"Send Three and Fourpence, we're going to a dance"
It is incumbent upon us all to speak in plain language to the best of our abilities ~ with an open heart and no hidden stings.
But Oh how difficult that is proving to be !
Now back to Pineapples and clear messages !
Did you ever notice how pineapples seem to do the opposite of most other plants and that is to produce the fruit first and the flowers second. Every point on a pineapple produces a flower at the same time for only two days Then and only then the fruit enlarges and ripens ~ now isn't that a clever alternative to the usual manner in which plants flower and then produce fruit or seed.
A lessaon to us all perhaps ~ to show good will and good intentions to receive the sweet fruits of our labours !!!
Stay Well !
Ron
Ron Clibborn-Dyer, China [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, 24 July 2006 at 02:02:55 (UTC)
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Colin
That's what's wrong with the world, mind, too many people fighting and not enough people dancing naked in the moonlight.
Tina Magee, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, 24 July 2006 at 04:36:04 (UTC)
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Sue, Ali, Gwyneth & Doug. Heartfelt thanks for your condolence messages posted on the GNR.
I was in Lusaka from the 13th June and returned to Perth on the 20th. Pity that we could not have met whilst in Lusaka, Doug. Only problem was that I was caught up helping with funeral arrangements etc an extremely exhausting experience. Would have loved to a bit more free time there. Still I plan to return on an extended holiday in the next couple of years.
Incidentally I know Harry Sillitoe well. Went to school with him and still converse by email from time to time. I will enquire from him re: his relationship to Sir Percy Sillitoe. I vaguely recall that during our school years, Harry often made mention of the fact that his Grandfather, Sir Percy, was once head of the M.I.5. In fact Harry’s elder brother is called Percy. Perhaps he can enlighten us on Sir Percy’s secret liaisons in Northern Rhodesia.
Regards
Humphrey
Humphrey Thornicroft, Australia [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, 24 July 2006 at 11:42:00 (UTC)
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Up on the bend of the Luapula River, the Sillitoe brothers owned an ice plant, supplying the African fisherman. Was up there with my platoon in '63. I was told they were Sir Percy's progeny.
Ken Fernie, United States [ Profile ] [ Contact ]
Monday, 24 July 2006 at 15:29:36 (UTC)
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